Mini 1075 - Fishtown Mafia
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I claim, I pick who claims next they claim they pick the next person and so on.Lrdwhyt wrote:
Lord without the vowel, white.fallen angel wrote:VOTE: Lrdwhyt because I can't pronounce his name.
What exactly is popcorning? And when did the cop die?
I was talking metaphorically. There's a far less chance of there being a cop in this game than there were years ago.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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He's best able to false claim (if he's scum).fallen angel wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you want nocmen to start?Empking wrote:OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)
HF: Do you understand the idea behind mass claim?
Lrd: It'd be better if we could all claim at once but we can't.
Vote: HF
Nonsense argument against the mass claim.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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fallen angel wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if he tells you it's purely for reactions, it doesn't get the desired effect.havingfitz wrote:
OK boss...I claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaim...wait. You aren't the boss.Empking wrote:OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)
WTH are you trying to do?
I for one have nothing worth claiming, scum aren't going to claim, and any PR stupid enough to claim is just going to out themself into an easy NK. But I'm happy to listen to your rationale.Or are you just looking for reactions to your request to work with?
As for the mass claim, I see no harm in it, although I'd be interested as to what good you think could come of it, Empking. Like havingfitz said, nobody is likely to claim anything other than VT, as a power-role claim is practically suicide, and a scum claimissuicide.
If we do mass claim, I would prefer to wait until everyone has confirmed.
Also,Unvote: LrdWhyt. We seem to be leaving the RVS fairly quickly, in my humble opinion.
No, everybody in town has to claim truthfully and we can then use the claims to work out who the falseclaim scum are.
I support massclaim because it'll help us win the game.
1. We force scum to take the guess now rather than running them up and then letting them get away with claiming a power role later.
2. We may be able to work out a breaking strategy or work out a role that wouldn't be in the game to allow us to lynch scum.
3. It lacks many problems. Town power roles are more numerous than they used to be and as such the classic argument against MC do not apply.
HF: Your argument "town will false claim in order to screw over the town" (or whatever reason you're using) is complete nonsense, that'ds not up for debate.
Noc is clearly the best player. If ou don't read old games then look at his join date.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Narrowing the lynching pool helps us working out the scum.
2. I presume we are in a balanced game. If two roles come together to make the game imbalanced then we can presume one of them is scum (a cop and a mason pair for instance)
3. Its not my reason for a claim. 1 and 2 are my reasons ffor wanting a claiming. That's merely to preemptively attacks arguments against mass claim.
You don't think experience is related to skill? At least the skill to know what is a reasonable mini normal set up?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Yes but there are normally disadvantages which there aren't in this case.
Lrd; Very rarely to powerroles last to LyLo I'm of the opinion that if we don't claim then scum will already pick off our power roles. Its just this way we can try and stop them 9if we have any power roles).Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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No they wouldn't. (They should but that doesn't translate into what actually happens.)Lrdwhyt wrote:What are you talking about...if there were no disadvantages to mass claiming, people would mass claim every game.
The odds are very good that we won't be put into a worse position. That's just not the site meta any more.The disadvantage is that the mafia gets to know everyone's role. You don't know that there are no disadvantages in this game; initiating a mass claim off an unsubstantiated assumption is stupid.
But they will be blatantly obvious about it. We won't get powerroles at then regardless of whether we claim or not.They're just as likely as anyone else to last to LYLO if they're not blatantly obvious about it.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Unless you're going to claim that MC at the beggining of D1 is impossible then the fact that it hasn't been done before doesn't prove a thing (either for or against).
(I'm not going to respond to HF until he stops wasting our time with stuff like "scum will falseclaim".)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.
Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.
(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Lrd:The last two points are in my favour (though I disagree that it requiresx thenm to be early in order to be put into a bad position) and we will not have confirmed town period. That's it.Lrdwhyt wrote:
If I wasn't convinced before that you aren't seriously arguing for a mass claim, I sure am now. How, in any way, was your logic irrefutable? Your asking for a mass claim was either a joke and you're not even trying, or you really want a mass claim, and you're hoping that no one will actually read your arguments.Empking wrote:AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.
Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.
(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)
1. As someone else said, no. Outing the roles means power roles die, thus decreasing the chances of having confirmed town in LYLO.
2. Depends on whether they're early in the mass claim or not.
3. Yes.
And if you do have an ulterior motive, do explain now. It seems obvious that no one is supporting a mass claim, so you may as well explain why.
I'm willing to drop suggesting MC but any argument put against me HAS to take into account the fundamental fact that MC is the best move for the town to make otherwise your delibrately helping scum.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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The reason this is my first game proposing a mass claim is because I think early MC is the best case in Mini normals and just mini normals and even then only when its plain like this one. (themes are crazy and larges are VT's infected)
Everyuone, I want a mass claim because its the best play. Just for that reason.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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(bold mine)havingfitz wrote:
OK boss...I claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaim...wait. You aren't the boss.Empking wrote:OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)
WTH are you trying to do?
I for one have nothing worth claiming, scum aren't going to claim, andany PR stupid enough to claim is just going to out themself into an easy NK.But I'm happy to listen to your rationale. Or are you just looking for reactions to your request to work with?
huh?Empking wrote:There's a far less chance of there being a cop in this game than there were years ago.
Everyone: What dop you think of HF's premature vanilla claim?
DP: Can you vote HF then.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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NO.singersigner wrote:
WORD.cruelty wrote:i feel like there's a bunch of people out there who haven't seen the princess bride and are misunderstanding the concept.
the point is, BOTH the glasses are poisoned.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Give us one.AdumbroDeus wrote: Will it never happen D1? I have seen players that are significantly better then pretty much everyone in the game pull similar BS on multiple occasions.
Which are?One of DavidParker and EMP are scum, probably not both. EMP is by far the most likely here for obvious reasons.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Your implication with "scum won't claim and any PR stupid enough to claim is just going to out themself into an easy NK" Is that PRs won't be stupid enough to claim and in MC that's means a lie.
My reasons haven't changed.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Unvote- We've gone through my reasons for mass claim. Remember, you agreed to two points of my reasoning and only disagreed with the point about the [non-existant] confirmed town. You are simply not being honest at this point.
Vote: LrdPlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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1. A breaking strategy wasn't really one of my reasons to suggesting just a remote positive plus.
2. We wouldn't be only helping scum.
3. I think that nowadays, any powerroles we have would be more useful to help us crack the scum now (along with their help before getting nightkill'd) than keeping them hidden and hoping our tracker gets the scum taking the action (for example)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Give me the three disadvantages then.Lrdwhyt wrote:
That still doesn't explain your behaviour.Empking wrote:I've been saying let's go pass it for a long time now.
I might have agreed with two of your reasons, but there are not more advantages than disadvantages at this point. That makes any point you have kind of moot, as it'snota good idea to mass claim.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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This is not even remotely true.Incognito wrote:AdumbroDeus wrote: In case you didn't know, there are some people who push for an Empking policy lynch practically every game he plays in
Lrd: You said there were (at least) two disadvaantages. Either admit to lying or tell us them. Don't dodge the question.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Incognito: I don't remember, possibly. One game though, especially one with somebody who has a grudge against me isn't "practically every game".
Lrd; What querstion? (Seriously though. "I'mnot dodging the questionyouare."?)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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At least some of them are you mistaking catching Lrd out in a lie and talking about mass claim.AdumbroDeus wrote:@Incognito: The issue with DP is not so much the "recklessness is a towntell" thing, that's true enough, but it's a minor tell at best. The real concern is how SURE he seems that EMP is town. My earlier comments in regards to their relationship stand.
@Empking: viewtopic.php?p=2613039#p2613039, viewtopic.php?p=2612656#p2612656, viewtopic.php?p=2610154#p2610154, viewtopic.php?p=2605267#p2605267.
All after your 12th post where you mentioned you'd be willing to let it drop, there are all after that. Pretty much everything you've said is in regards to massclaim. I don't like how distracting you've been.
Lrd: I've answered that question almost once a page (possibly an exageration). Because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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It goes against the general feeling (because before recently it was a bad thing) and its shot down just due to prejudice.DavidParker wrote:If the advantages outweigh the disadvantages why do you feel that in none of these games a day 1 mass-claim occurs?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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HF: Or Cruelty. Yes so far my scum reads have been on people that are against mass claim (AKA everyone) but I think there's an obvious reason for that (a clue is hidden in this very post)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Yeah, I didn't see it. He's not worthy of a FOS. I'm not going to do his challenge though, as AD himself has stressed time and time again I'm the best player so I'll hunt in my own way.
Noc: The wagon on me I know to be false, the DP has poor reasoning behind it (no scum motivation).Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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How so?singersigner wrote:
I'm gunna have to ask you to explain this one, as it is highly anti-town.Empking wrote:Vote: Singer
(I'm voting you because you're acting like a VI but I don't think your a VI.)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Cor: DP was responding to HF.
Honestly, I'm not worried about DP because the action evberyone keeps going on about (the buddying) and the way he went about it wouldn't be done as town.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Ah, sorry "wouldn't be done as scum" You could've pointed it our rather than force me to search for it.
Presuming it was a freudian slip rather than a simple mistake, is there any reason that I as scum would not be "worried about DP because the action evberyone keeps going on about (the buddying) and the way he went about it wouldn't be done as town."Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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havingfitz wrote:
You are all over the place with your votes.Empking wrote:Unvote- I've read another game that Singer is in and I'm no longer convinced she's scum. (I think its playstyle)
Vote: Lrd
I've voted two players today. That's hardly "all over the place".
He's a lurking liar.Do you have a reason for voting Lrdwhyt?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I didn't.Nocmen wrote:I agree fully with corvuus's first post. However, his permutation post really bugs me. How is Emp and DP both town work out with them? You explain two, and both scum seems fairly obvious, but both town you make no explanation or attempt to explain that, and by sheer probability, you need to assume that as the most likely case. It's weird though given his conclusion, that if Emp was town, why would he worry about DP buddying him?
Actually, did Emp ever have an issue with DP buddying him and thinking that Emp is town?
Lrd: Your lack of posts today made you a lurker and we've already discussed how you lied.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Cor: The reasoning on DP didn't take into account that there was no scum motive for DP's actions. They may have been poor play or possibly anti-town but they weren't scummy. The decent reasoning on FA was the reaction to mass claim.
HF: 4 votes is not a lot. We've got a lo of inactives and tunelling players in this game, that's the only reason that even a tunelling player like yourself raises an eyebrow at four votes.
Also, I absolutely acknowledge Singer several time vore today. I said she was one of my main suspects when asked Day 1.
I think its very weird that you don't understand other players changing their reads ("Why didn't you vote HF despite finding him scummy early D1") I didn't vote Lrd because we went through it yesterday about how nobody else looked at him like I do and since he was only slightly worse than Singer I went to the most popular wagon.
HF: You call my vote on Lrd "OMGUS" do you consider lying and lurking scum tells? If so, why don't you believe I also do.
You call my vote on FA "self preservation". Several players in this game wanted a good lynch, why don't you think I share the same viewpoint.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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HF: It seems to me that you're saying that changing my reads on players is scummy. Is that correct? What's scummy about it?
1. When did I say that Lred was being dishonest about not wanting a massclaim?
2. Are you honestly trying to say that "Yes." is not an agreement?
3. Do you know what OMGUS is? If so, are you dishonestly claiming I'm doing it in order to dishonestly get me lynched?
4. Other than myself who is scum?
5. You're trying to paint it as me trying to lynch scum by voting FA is a bad thing (The lynch had to be me (I know is town), DP (a strong town read) or FA (leaning scum)). Do you think that your play of being a stubborn tunnelling player and not voting FA is the right course of action for town to take?
My experience of the game causes me to doubt that would happen (plus there's my general view of DP being town).DP-scum gets lynched due to 'easy-lynching', causes EMP to be lynched in response.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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That doesn't wash. By the end of Day 1 it was clear to everybody that we needed to lynch FA or there would by a No Lynch at deadline. There was confusion but it was cleared up in time.Corvuus wrote:The problem is that in this specific game, the deadline rules are not a simple plurality or a 'if no majority lynch, then no deadline lynch'. It is based on # of players voting and majority of that. Which was not understood, etc. so it is mostly null since any conclusion on how people voted, etc. is not a strong indicator of anything since I think the majority of players here thought it would be a deadline lynch.
UnvoteI'm going to follow what wise player whose name I forget and say that if nobody else sees it then its probably not there with regards to Lrd.
Vote: CorPlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I think DP is town because I don't see the scum motivation for his actions. I think you're scum because of FA's changing reactions to mass claim (mostly) and the fact that you weren't lynched at the end of D1.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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eh no I don't. If you think there's something off about the post bring it up.Corvuus wrote:VLA for the turkey holiday, mainly next 2-3 days
EMP and then Rhinox still need to be lynched. Not much else left to say.
EMP: You still need to remark on your post #43 (isolation)
Evidence please.I do like how you really really wanted to vote me but went through a long round-about way before doing so,
I didn't vote you earlier because I wanted a vote on Lrd to encourage others that had their doubts about him on D2 to be encouraged to vote him.Why didn't you vote me earlier given the (failed) case you are citing?
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
Would you mind linking me to it?neko2086 wrote:I know that's all hard to follow, and it's not my preferred method of doing things, but with 15 pages to go over all at once, it's the most economical without skipping too much.
I'm tempted to put a vote on cruelty, myself. I don't think he's gotten very much attention as of yet.
I should mention here that in flipping through the archives, I realized that one of the last games I played over a year ago was with empking,Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
Lrd: Youb said "disadvantages" when you couold only think of one "disadvantage" this is scummy because it suggests that he wasn't really thinking about what he was saying or, more likely, he wasn't thinking about what he was saying with a town motivation.
Also, the accusation that I haven't voted Lrd is clearly a lie.
What is lurking?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Empking's Alt's Alt
- Posts: 16758
- Joined: May 4, 2008