Mini 698 - Georgetown Mafia - Game over
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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No, Ceph is referring to a game he modded. Where I had my scum-win. Clearly, I am dangerous.StrangerCoug wrote:
That rings vaguely familiar too. Maybe I'm thinking Kevin McCallister from Home Alone?Cephrir wrote:Vote: MacavityLock. Hmm, I feel like I've heard that name before... >.>Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Does anyone really think that we were going to get quicklynch on page 3? Don't you think if we did, we'd have in-the-bag scum for day 2?
In fact, I think that people who don't see that are jumping on the easier Ceph-bandwagon. The first semi-suspicious thing that happens in this game, and you don't want to reason it through? Also, I'm not following on Gorillaz-scum at all. So, yeah, I'm going tounvotehim.FoS: StrangerCoug and MiteyMouse. In fact,Vote: MiteyMouse. StrangerCoug at least is saying original things. MM is just following the trail SC is blazing.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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I was once told that someone who doesn't actually answer someone's suspicions (even if they are only page 2 suspicions), calls himself Town, and then OMGUS-votes based on rather wide meta-style generalizations is pretty scummy himself.MiteyMouse wrote:I was once told that in the game of mafia, the second vote is really not what one should be looking at...the third however is bandwagonning and the third voter for Town is usually Scum. Because of this:
VOTE MacavityLock
I will admit that it did make me look a little harder at you seeing as that vote was on me!
Actually, I wasn't told that. I figured it out for myself.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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Well, here's what I don't get:MiteyMouse wrote:Touche my friend! I wasn't trying to follow someone else's coattails here...I was looking for reasoning for votes early on in the game. I always want reasoning on votes that are past the random vote stage...that's just the way that I play. SC and I were just here around the same time and thinking along the same lines.
I get the case on Ceph. I don't agree with it, but I get it. I don't understand at all any case on Gorillaz. Why did you find him scummy? Did SC even make a case for him, or did he just call him scummy? Did I just abuse some pronouns?MiteyMouse wrote:I'm following you on it thus far on Cephir and EG.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
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Personally, I think that Primate's being pretty clear with his posts. Sure, he's having some fun, and not being as informative as he could be, but I'm pretty well following what he's saying. How is his picture-posting anti-town?Corvuus wrote:I didn't say Primate's voluntary PR is scummy, I said it was anti-town.
i.e. it doesn't give us info or help the town overall.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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You do know that Primate's vote is now on SC, right? He moved his random vote when he called SC a convenience store robber. I'd expect a townie to be paying more attention to the guy he's voting for than Corvuus has.Corvuus wrote:sorry, i don't consider /confirm,
vote: *blank*
in order to make it 2>1.
in the first two posts of the game with nothing else said as contributing.
If he can unvote and change his vote, etc. then good job.
i am voting him to pressure him to actually say something or unvote/vote. I didn't say he was scum but he is being stubborn, not helping and what is wrong with voting for someone who isn't scumhunting or contributing?
CorvuusFoS: Corvuss.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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This. I think that the biggest part of what we're missing from Primate is analysis of why he thinks people are scummy/not scummy. If this is a real restriction, then Primate can:Zeppo007 wrote:I've got a question for Primate. You seem pretty set on StrangerCoug being guilty do you have any extra info as part of Role that would give you this info? If not can you show us some quotes that have given you this high suspicion of Coug?
a) Post numbers. (post 16)
b) Post letters. (post 165)
c) Post pictures with words in them. (posts 147, 161)
Therefore, no matter whether you have a PR or not, you can come up with a way to talk sanely to us. Start giving us analysis, or I'll stop giving you the benefit of the doubt.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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You know what, screw it. I'm done talking about Primate for now.
I'm not sure I understand this. When you made this vote, it brought Corvuus up to two votes, which is barely any pressure. What discussion were you trying to bring us to? Why choose Corvuus and not someone else?Apothecary wrote:just to get discussion movingVote: CorvuusYes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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You've posted 5 times to this thread, only 2 of which haveApothecary wrote:I simply chose Corvuus because it was a random vote. There was no malicious intent intended. But I'm a little confused about Primate's Vendiagram. Does the fact I'm in a seperate bubble mean my allegiance is undecided?anyuseful content. He doesn't have anything to go on, and neither do I. So, some questions: Has anyone done anything that you find questionable? Who do you find scummy?Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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You're not wrong, but given what we know of this "PR", I think we should just start treating him like any other player. At this point, if he doesn't provide good/non-craplogic analysis (no matter what excuse), I will consider it scummy. And by analysis, I do mean something that anyone can understand. (The army-star patches, for example? I have no idea.)Atlas wrote:
I'm not necessarily encouraging you to stay on this subject (because I'm getting sick of it as well) but I have a strong feeling that this is exactly what Primate is going for. His responses are increasingly ambiguous and do not answer questions as explicitly as he has shown he is capable of.Macavity wrote:You know what, screw it. I'm done talking about Primate for now.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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There's kind of a overriding theme of Corvuus's most recent couple of posts that I really don't like. It's typified by the following:
Throughout his last post, Corvuus is jumping all over SC for not attacking Primate. There's kind of a powerful assumption here: Corvuus is basically saying he expects that if a townie is attacked then that townie must attack back. There are so many problems with this assumption that I'm kind of doubting that Corvuus has a townie mindset here.Corvuus wrote:Primate has a ven diagram where he has you shown as 100% scum. Shouldn't you be angry? Shouldn't you fight back? Explain why you don't attack Primate's logic, his diagrams, etc. and why you don't think he is scum for what he is doing when you clearly think others are scum when they are doing virtually the equivalent.
My major problem with Corvuus's argument is this: Isn't it possible for a townie to attack another townie? If townie A attacks townie B, but townie B doesn't think townie A is scummy, why would townie B attack back? Sure, townie B might defend himself.
Which leads me to my second problem: Part of the problem with Primate right now is that he can't/won't provide logic behind his attack, he's not to giving reasoning behind his diagrams. So, how can somebody attack Primate for his logic and reasoning right now? If he feels that strongly right now, isn't it Primate's job to convince the town that SC is scum?
Like I said, the thing that's really getting me here is Corvuus's assumption that a townie who is attacked must automatically assume that the attacker is scum. That's just not true.FoS: Corvuus.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Um, no. Just because he hasn't given a reason doesn't mean he doesn't have one. I would like to hear from Primate though.StrangerCoug wrote:
What do you mean "accusations"? Hasn't it been established that Primate voted me without a reason?Apothecary wrote:I did find it kind of odd SC didn't try to defend himself from Primate's accusations. But I don't know if that's a sign of a passive scum or a passive townie.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Primate, as I said before, I will now treat like any other player. He hasn't posted a single thing since then. Nothing new to add.Corvuus wrote:You have nothing new to add? You could clarify what you think about Primate, SC, me, etc. instead of saying nothing. Go on record with an actual 'stance'.
SC, I mentioned early on as having suspicions of. He has not done anything to remove those suspicions. Nothing new to add.
You, I recently mentioned that your attacks of SC are full of flawed logic. I saw your explanations and wasn't particularly convinced. Nothing new to add.
I had done some quick skims of the game again, and found nothing more to say/ask, though I might have more time over the weekend. MiteyMouse, you, and SC are my top targets right now. I'm still waiting for Primate to say anything.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Like I said, I called MiteyMouse out early for his blindly following you in your bad logic.StrangerCoug wrote:
What is your case on MiteyMouse?MacavityLock wrote:MiteyMouse, you, and SC are my top targets right now.
reeks of scum. Immediate OMGUS vote of me when I voted him. Everything else he's said has been distractions (Primate's PR discussion, discussion of his own PR), and not a single lick of scum-hunting.MiteyMouse wrote:Did I say something wrong?
I didn't have much to add. I don't think my stuff with MM is new. How is it withholding thoughts if I really didn't have any thoughts to withhold?Atlas wrote:
I don't agree with this. He's being anti-town by withholding thoughts.Cephrir wrote:No, I didn't say that. I just said it wasn't a tell.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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OMG. This is totally ridiculous. Up until that "post to avoid prod" post, I think I've been doing pretty well. I wouldn't say that I'm the most prolific in this town, but I've been better than some people. At that point, I had no new thoughts, thusCorvuus wrote:.....
we need Primate prodded or replaced.
As for 'withholding thoughts', it is anti-town because town isn't able to get a read on you to see if you are town or scum.
Anyone coasting through the game posting "I agree with this, I disagree with that, nothing much to add, just posting to avoid a prod" are all anti-town sentiments since it tells us nothing about the player who writes it.
You may disagree with my primate PR posts and such, but it is far better for town to have people talk/doing something out there that can be read and interpreted, and not just "I agree/disagree with Corvuus", "I don't get what is going on", etc.
CorvuusI had no thoughts to withhold. Re-read me and see if you think I'm more or less of a scum-hunter than the rest of the players.
You are way over-playing this point. Seriously, MM is still at the top of my scum-list, but you're 1A.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I gave my reasoning back when I voted for you on page 4. Would you like me to point out every scummy thing that you do while my vote is parked on you? Because I can try, depending on my schedule, if you like.MiteyMouse wrote:I did not OMGUS vote for you....as I said when I placed it, the vote was for you being the third voter and it was not immediate. I know you think my question about if I said something wrong "reeks of Scum" but, you have a player simply post a rolling eyes smilie at something legimate that you said and let's see what you post as a response. Also I already defended myself against "blindly following"...I want reasoning when someone votes...not giving it or saying later is not helpful.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "I don't like" here?Zeppo007 wrote:- Thirdly I don't like Cephrir's post about just replacing primate because he is anti-town. If he doesn't pick up his prod then he should be replaced.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Why did you answer this question? I wanted MM to answer, not you, and still do.StrangerCoug wrote:
No, but usually a player X guilty of OMGUS against player Y votes after the latter.MacavityLock wrote:
Does a vote have to come right after someone else's vote to be OMGUS?MiteyMouse wrote:I don't consider my vote was immediately after Macivity's vote....we will have to disagree on that one.
Either way, please explain. I'm not sure I get what you mean with "after the latter".Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Not what I was asking, but thanks for playing!StrangerCoug wrote:If player X commits OMGUS against player Y, he or she generally votes after player Y. I used "the latter" to mean player Y as opposed to player X.
MM, to clarify, why must a vote comeimmediatelyafter a vote to be OMGUS?
SC, please do not answer for her.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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OK, let's go through this again. I voted you. In your next post after this, you said "Un-random vote, I'm going to go re-read." 15 minutes later, you voted me with the reason that the 3rd vote is scummy. First of all, I don't think that's a good reason to vote for someone; I think you were coming up with an excuse. In addition, I'd consider those 2 posts as basically being one thought, so don't give me the excuse that it wasn't immediate because you interspersed it with a post specifically to unvote.MiteyMouse wrote:
What you said previously was that I immediately OMGUS voted for you. So, there are two parts here...the immediate part and the OMGUS. I don't feel that I did OMGUS vote for you, I explained my reasoning when I posted the vote. It was also not immediate as there were several other posts between...one of which was by me so it was not even my first post after I got back...so not immediate either way. I have never said that an OMGUS vote has to be immediately after to be OMGUS....you put those words in my mouth....MacavityLock wrote:
Not what I was asking, but thanks for playing!StrangerCoug wrote:If player X commits OMGUS against player Y, he or she generally votes after player Y. I used "the latter" to mean player Y as opposed to player X.
MM, to clarify, why must a vote comeimmediatelyafter a vote to be OMGUS?
SC, please do not answer for her.
I do think we crossed wires here. I read your defense here as saying "It wasn't OMGUS because it wasn't immediate." But now re-reading I think it could be read as "I don't think I OMGUSed, and I don't think it was immediate." OK, sounds like I misinterpreted you here, for which I apologize.MiteyMouse wrote:
I did not OMGUS vote for you....as I said when I placed it, the vote was for you being the third voter and it was not immediate.MacavityLock wrote:
Like I said, I called MiteyMouse out early for his blindly following you in your bad logic.StrangerCoug wrote:
What is your case on MiteyMouse?MacavityLock wrote:MiteyMouse, you, and SC are my top targets right now.
reeks of scum. Immediate OMGUS vote of me when I voted him. Everything else he's said has been distractions (Primate's PR discussion, discussion of his own PR), and not a single lick of scum-hunting.MiteyMouse wrote:Did I say something wrong?
Still, I'm not seeing any of this as a good defense, and my vote stands for now.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Are you defending Apoc for some reason? Is ultra-conservative play a town-tell?Atlas wrote:Apothecary is just playing ultra-conservative (e.g. "IthinkthatperhapsCorvuus is scummy")
Sorry, I don't think I know the term. MotR?Ythill wrote:Nottownie, justtownier. I currently have him @ MotR.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Confused about what you mean here.Corvuus wrote:Mainly.... hmm... and then I messed up.
The was you said "just playing ultra-conservative" felt like defending.Atlas wrote:No, I think it's a glaring scum-tell and I am not defending him.
Thanks.Middle of the Road.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I think it's time for Apoc to get some pressure.Unvote. Vote: Apoc.That most recent post is awful. Others have detailed their cases on you. You can't care enough to look up those reasons, to explain yourself, or to scumhunt.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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That's weird. You think a player is scummy because of another player's posts about them? Especially when we don't even know whether that player (SC in this case) is scum or not. Is there anything else that makes you think MM is scummy?Zeppo007 wrote:MM - just for the reason that SC came to her defense.
In other news, IGMEOY, but I'm coming around to Corvuus as over-aggresive town. His most recent posts have been much better.
I need to read up on Atlas. He's been getting a good amount of attention, and I can't say I have a strong opinion about him one way or the other.
Apoc, as far as I can see, your explanations of your actions don't make them any less scummy. At the very least, some scum-hunting by you might go a long way.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Is it just me, or does this read like "I'm manufacturing a case." to anybody else?Zeppo007, bolding mine wrote:ok to answer both Macavity and Elmo's questions about the weak reasoning against MM as being scummy. Others have built some evidence against her. That was just the one thing that stuck in my head that was off, and had happened recently.I didn't want to come off as echoing others cases to much.FoS: Zeppo.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I tend to agree with this. SC's jump onto and subsequently off of the Ythill non-wagon was really not townie-looking. Given the L-1, I think it is time to request a claim.Cephrir wrote:That SC wagon looks better every minute.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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My post got et by "over quota". Arg.
Upshot: I'm fine with avoiding an SC lynch today. If SC survives a night or two, I'm sure we can, but I'm not sure right now how to 100% deduce whether SC is lying or not without outing doc or another power role. Leave that discussion for tomorrow, depending on whether he's alive or not?
I shouldUnvote Apoth. He's been better as of late, but I'm going to keep an eye out for reversion to lurking.
I still kind of like an MM-wagon, but I'm not sure how SC-doc or SC-scum (as opposed to SC-complete unknown) would change that. I probably need to re-read before re-placing a vote somewhere.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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WHAT? This is utter lose. What benefit would vanilla (or other town power) have to gain by avoiding a lynch by claiming doc? It would risk a doc counter-claim (bad for town), an auto-town lynch (aka Lynch all Liars, bad for town), and any number of consequences that would be antithetical to a townie's win condition.Apothecary wrote:Alright then. I don't believe SC's claim. But I don't believe he's a scum either, but a townie hoping that the claim will shield him from the lynch.
FoS: Apoth. I'm not excited to have anybody who thinks like this in a game. I'm not sure if a townie would think like this at all, though maybe that comes back to his semi-newb status. Apoth, if you're town, please don't go fake-claiming power to avoid a lynch. That's really bad mojo.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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After some thought, I'm going to upgrade my FoS to aVote: Apoth. I'd very much like to hear your explanation of your belief that SC is townie fake-claiming. What causes you to think he's a townie as opposed to scum? What causes you to think that he's not doc? What would SC have to gain by townie fake-claiming?Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I'm still wondering what in his play made you think those things.Apothecary wrote:Alright then. I personally believe he was just shielding himself from the pressure and decided that it was in his best interests to avoid an immediate lynch. Of course, that is also a defense for scum players, and now I see how that was a bit stupid to suggest that. I apologize, if that's what you want.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Just to let everyone know, I'm away tomorrow, and probably on limited (though not that limited) access between then and the following Monday. I will certainly have time to contribute Tues-Sun, but I may not be as complete as I'd like.
I admit it, you got me. I've been busy wrapping up work in time for my Thanksgiving vacation. Between that and the WoW between you two, I'm having a hard time going through all this. (I didn't know the term either, but it certainly applies in this case.) I'm going to try to dig in to this when I'm home, and I promise I'll get to it eventually.Atlas wrote:I hate responding to this game. It's OK guys, you can admit that you aren't reading any of this. No need to say "I'll look into Ythill's case later" while returning with nothing a week later. (Oh who am I kidding, you know who you are. )
So, to be sure, you're saying there is nothing specific that suggested to you that he was townie fake-claiming, as opposed to doc actual-claiming, or scum fake-claiming?Apothecary wrote:I thought those things because I want to have, as I said before, an objective and pragmatic viewpoint. I suppose that clouded my judgement a bit.
Sorry, I'm a bit confused here. "Minor anymore"?StrangerCoug wrote:
Apothecary proposed the idea of vanilla faking doctor, and my suspicions of Ythill and Zeppo007 are minor anymore.Atlas wrote:Cougar can you summarize your top suspects in one sentence?Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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For the record, I am no longer voting Apoth because he thought that a townie would fake-claim. I am voting him because he can't answer why he thought that.
Attempting to protect a scum-buddy comes to mind, but that would be predicated on SC-scum.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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First of all, no. "Grasping at straws" means something to the effect of "this person is coming up with the flimsiest possible excuses to save him/herself." "Strawmanning" is the act of tearing down a case that looks very similar to your opponent's actual case, but that is not equivalent and far easier to attack.StrangerCoug wrote:In addition, as far as I am aware, grasping at straws = straw man (but again, someone needs to correct me if I am wrong).
OK, I went through the game again. (As much as I can while spending time at home.) Here's what jumped out at me:
My current top 3: Apoth, Zeppo, and MM are all powerfully useless, and this has been true since the beginning. Of the 3, I'd say Zeppo has been the more useful, but his suspicions were by far the weirdest (see again his "case" on MM). Jazz, you've got a bit to make up for. MM has been by far the most useless. Have you done any scumhunting that wasn't of the "You didn't explain this right away, therefore it is scummy" variety? As for Apoth, I'm pretty happy with my vote. Little analysis and rarely anything new to add. Also, I noticed this:
This exact point was brought up by Zeppo on page 3, and was pretty well shot down as a good argument by page 4. I get the feeling that Apoth is barely paying attention to this game, and when he is, he's using arguments that are superficial at best.Apothecary, page 13 wrote:Well, on page 3 he [Cephrir] tried to pull a quicklynch on Evilgorrilaz (when he was playing), and when prompted to give a reason, he simply said "later".
Atlas-Ythill puts me to sleep. The fact that you're throwing post numbers in there as opposed to useful quotes makes it that much more impossible to read. However, as far as I can tell, Ythill is winning the argument: the "minimization" and the "false dilemma" points specifically feel like good craplogic callouts. But I don't think that Atlas is doing too bad of a job defending himself, and the whole argument is not putting Atlas near the top of my scumlist.
SC-Corvuus makes me want to strangle someone. SC is making nonsense arguments, responding to the wrong questions, and is at this point basically flailing. See "grasping at straws." But he's doc-claimed, so he's off-limits. Fine, we'll wait on him. Corvuus, why are you still attacking him so strongly? Why are you filling up our monitors with massive posts? I don't know if there's anyone left who doesn't think he's scummy. Why are you so adamant about making sure we know that you think he's scummy? What do you have to gain by this?
PS. This is my big post for the Thanksgiving break, don't expect anything of this magnitude until Tuesday at earliest.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I would like to quote the great Freddie Mercury: "Any way the wind blows, doesn't really matter, to me."Apothecary wrote:Now, I currently believe he is scum due to his attitude towards me and saying claiming "vanilla townie is suicide". This does seem a little scummy, as it made him look as if he was just claiming a power role to protect himself when it's pretty obvious he can't back it up.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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OK, well, looks like I missed a bit on my travel day.
SC already pointed out the "two scum" assumption possible scum-tell. I'm more interested why you think that scum are already on your wagon. Do you think that scum would automatically jump to a wagon if the opportunity arose? Would that wagon be yours in particular? Why?Apothecary wrote:You know what I'm really surprised about? I'm still only on L-3. This probably means that both the scum have decided to vote me, and one overly exurberant townie is joining the party. Does that seem difficult to believe? Why don't we go one for five pages of needless crap debating if this is newb townie or a frakking scumtell? Sounds like one hell of a game to me!
I'm having a really hard time understanding the Ythill-Llama argument to be honest. I'm trying to boil this down as well as I can, and I'm getting the following:
1) Ythill thinks that Llama's case against him is framed just like Ythill's case against Atlas.
2) Llama really doesn't like the way Ythill moved off of his Atlas-wagon.
Am I right? Am I missing something? I'd like to have a more simplified summary before I comment.
I will say that I don't particularly like Ythills' posts against Elmo. This in particular rubs me the wrong way:
When I read Elmo's post, my interpretation was that his read of Llama wasYthill, bolding mine wrote:
The dialect where you say it by naming MM and SC as buddies, and weighing the identity of the third between me and Rx, and decide RxElmo wrote:In what dialect is "we should probably lynch one of these two people today" wishy-washy?based on LF being either wrong or scummy (you were vague), and then concluding that we should hang MM or Rx.
Maybe you're just paranoid.incomplete, and that he was neither wrong nor scummy.
Ythill's putting words in Elmo's mouth, in addition to attempting to kick additional dirt against his current target, feels rather scummy to me.Elmo wrote:#3 is liable to be.. Apoth or Ythill? I am not really too hot on LF's thing, but then I haven't really read it properly.
I have an unholy number of town reads at this point. Irritatingly. We should probably be lynching one of Apothecary or MiteyMouse, based on how Apoth responds and if MM ever starts doing stuff.
Hey MM, mind commenting on anything more currently relevant?
Jazz, sorry to hear about that. Condolences.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I'm ecstatic with my Apoth vote right now. Ceph's right about the self-contradiction on reaction votes. The "No Lynch is better than townie lynch" argument is pretty awful. Choosing Yt and SC as his suspects is pretty much following the herd at this point.
My LA has really prevented me from doing a deep dive into Yt-Llama, even with the summaries. I'm really sorry about this. Unless a substantial wagon builds on either of them, I'll probably punt the issue until my computer gets better or Day 2, which ever comes first. I have high hopes for getting it fixed soon (next week?).Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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It was (and still is) L-1, unless I'm miscounting. SC, ML, Corvuus, Yt, Qwintz voting with 6 to lynch.Ythill wrote:
It's L-2, actually. Why the hurry?qwints wrote:I believe you're at L-1. Time to claim apothecary.
This is very strange to me. This might be semantics, but Apoth makes it sound like he has a choice in the matter. (Note the difference in connotation between "I'm not a power role." and "I'm not going to claim a power role.") Only scum really do have a choice in this situation, though given his earlier opinion of townie fake-claiming... Anyway, I would've hoped he learned his lesson on that by now. This is minor, I certainly wouldn't call this damning evidence, but it's not going to change my opinion of Apoth-scum.Apothecary wrote:I'm not going to claim a power role.
FoV? Is that a Finger of Voting? I'm not sure I get it.Cephrir wrote:Consider this anFoVbecause having people at L-1 makes me slightly nervous.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Why? What does this do other than give scum a better idea of who the most obvious townies are?Corvuus wrote:I do think that before we lynch we should have everyone mention their top 2 scum picks at least?Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Or I could just have lurked, like everyone else was doing.qwints wrote:This is a typical "active lurker" post by the way. He complains about inactivity without making any active contribution.
FOS:MacavityLock
Seriously though, the day's almost over, and I'm trying to figure out what's left to do.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Bandwagons that don't start until this close to deadline are dangerous, and if we do end up lynching Apoth and he flips scum, I'll be looking very closely at you. Conversely, if Apoth flips town, I think that your points on qwintz and his presupposing Apoth-town aren't bad ones, and I'll be looking at him. Yay for day 2 targets!Ythill wrote:I suggest that the rest of you get Rx under 4 votes and join me on this one. Rx might be scum or he might be a bad townie. Atlas/qwints has played more carefully, but is, IMO, more likley to flip scum.
By the way, I have finals all next week, and I've been studying, so I haven't been as on top of this game as I'd like to be. I'm happy with an Apoth lynch today, and it's highly unlikely that I'll either move my vote, or even check in much before deadline. Sorry about this.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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No, you're probably right. I probably shouldn't have said anything specific as to my suspicions just yet, and I certainly will be looking closer all around come tomorrow. Honestly, this day has kind of lost steam for me, and I'm ready for us to move on.Ythill wrote:This isn't a good idea. You are you telling scum how to manipulate you if I am wrong about qwints but right about Rx. If you think my points "aren't bad" then how can you so off-handedly dismiss them to lynch a person they suggest is town?
Sorry to ask a question when you have declared LA. Someone else from the gallery may pick up where Mac left off if they share his views or wish to argue them for discussion.
I don't think your points about Apoth suggest that he's town, just that he might be less likely to be scum. Subtle difference, but it's there. All in all, I think it's a good day 1 bandwagon, no matter what.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Guh? Why me?OhGodMyLife wrote:So with one of my main suspects dead, I'm thinking its got to be Cephrir and MacavityLock.
I'm thinking that Jazz needs to join the game, and I'd be up for bringing back the Apoth wagon. In fact, I see nothing that precludes Apoth-scum, soVote: Apoth.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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I don't think this (Vig/SK stuff specifically) is a useful line of inquiry.Corvuus wrote:I don't understand why Mafia would target Ythill... I think town considered him most likely to be lynched day 2.... so either there is a Vig/SK or Ythill's statement of "Sure, vote for me so I don't get NK'ed" made mafia think he was a power role (or maybe prior breadcrumbing) occurred... and that isn't even including other stuff...
As for the Apoth/SC potential scum team, I'd say that Apoth's townie fake-claiming thing looks even worse in light of SC-scum.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Yeah, I know. I've been busy. I promise a substantive post by Thursday.Corvuus wrote:hm.
I would like to hear from Macavitylock about all of this. Especially since he is being painted as being tomorrow's potential lynch so he needs to speak up 'now'.
Corvuus
Quick hits: I'm going to go through everything that Apoth has said again, but right now there's very little that strikes me as something that couldn't come from SC's scumbuddy, especially given that SC was a RB.
I'm very worried about OGML setting me up for tomorrow. As far as I can tell, he has nothing against me except for some links to Ceph, and we still don't know whether he's scum or not. So, unless you have some evidence against me OGML, you're making the same case against me that some people made against MM/you.
My feelings on Ceph: I was completely on board with pretty much all of his play yesterday until the end of the day, when he was so hesitant with his vote and all. I need to re-read him in light of SC-scum.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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OK, I've done a full re-read of Apoth, and looked into where SC talks with/about him, and I still think there's a good case against Apoth as SC's buddy, though I will admit it's not perfect. All post numbers are posts in iso.
Just the beginning of Apoth's incredible wishy-washiness towards SC.Apothecary, post 5 wrote:I did find it kind of odd SC didn't try to defend himself from Primate's accusations. But I don't know if that's a sign of a passive scum or a passive townie.
This has obviously been discussed to death, and it is clearly a newbie mistake, but in retrospect it reads just like newb-scum trying to save his buddy.Apothecary, post 17 wrote:Alright then. I don't believe SC's claim. But I don't believe he's a scum either, but a townie hoping that the claim will shield him from the lynch.
Immediate backtrack when called out.Apothecary, post 19 wrote:Alright then. I personally believe he was just shielding himself from the pressure and decided that it was in his best interests to avoid an immediate lynch. Of course, that is also a defense for scum players, and now I see how that was a bit stupid to suggest that. I apologize, if that's what you want.
Hey look, Apoth is being wishy-washy about SC. There are a bunch of others, and I'm not going to quote them all.Apothecary, post 24 wrote:I simply changed my mind. Perhaps I felt a little differently for him on my third post on the matter. I felt a little pity for him, because I thought he might, just might, have actually been a townie. But perhaps I was right with my first idea.
SC is Apoth's second of two suspects. This came well after the claim and the "decision" that SC was off-limits for yesterday. This seems like the right spot for scum to put his buddy on a suspicion list. (Also, note that Apoth's only other scum target in this post was Ythill-town.)Apothecary, post 37 wrote:Personally I suspect:
...And Stranger Coug. He wanted people to believe that I was accusing him of Strawman arguments. And he claimed a power role on Day one. I'm not buying that. He also brought up Kokusho's gambit, which is a load of crap in a situation like this.
Apoth trying a last ditch effort to save his buddy?Apothecary, post 52 wrote:This is quite an astonishing turn of events, in the couple of days I've been gone. It appears that everyone seems to have been swung rather quickly over to SC's bandwagon. Why is this? He's claimed doctor, so we should be a little more careful about our lynch here.
The only post of Apoth's that I think would counter my read of him as SC's buddy is this:
This was kind of early in the first SC wagon, so it does speak against busing. However, note that Apoth never voted for SC here, or ever. And Apoth was lazy yet again, relying on other people's arguments. Not that that's always a scum-tell, but it doesn't look great here. (I'm actually not sure whose post Apoth is referring to though, so I may have missed something.)Apothecary, post 11 wrote:Personally, after reading through that post, I do believe that SC is scum. I don't want to basically reiterate what you've already said, as that seems a little pointless. You outline good arguements on everyone.
Now, on SC's posts:
First, a bit of coaching.StrangerCoug, post 28 wrote:
We're past it now. A lot of the current cases have something or other to do with Primate.Apothecary wrote:Sorry I've been off for too long.
Are we past Random Voting, or are we working with tangible evidence?
#3 seems like a good spot to put a scumbuddy. Also, Ceph was SC's #2 in this post. Kind of odd to be putting counter-acting arguments next to each other like that?StrangerCoug, post 49 wrote:Apothecary's misrepresenting Cephrir (L-3 vote ≠ quicklynch vote) and his using my actions to make MiteyMouse suspicious make him my #3.
Now, it gets a bit tougher for my case, I admit. In SC's post 59, SC becomes the first vote on the Apoth-wagon, and SC rides him hard for the rest of the day. I'm not sure I've ever seen that harsh of a busing tactic before, so it definitely speaks against Apoth as SC's buddy.
However, given that SC was an RB and had made his Doc claim, isn't there a chance that he was hoping to get back in the town's good graces by giving up his buddy? Weird, I know, but everything on Apoth's side just seems so obvious to me. Also, check out another bit of coaching:
I don't know, it's a tough one, and honestly I might be putting too much stock in my suspicions from yesterday. I think it's a pretty good case, though there are certainly flaws. My vote is going to stay for now, as I want to be sure to get a response from Apoth.StrangerCoug, post 94 wrote:Apothecary, if I were you, I wouldn't be pessimistic about your impending death. You should be fighting back. See Mini 601 Day 3, where I pretty much gave up as town and ended up being the lynch that day.
My re-read of Ceph isn't yet complete, so I'll do another post on that one, almost certainly later today.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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You know what? I don't think I want to do a massive post on Ceph. I did a quick re-read and decided that my opinions haven't really changed: I think there are scummier people than Ceph. I think OGML's case on him relies a lot on the assumption that Ceph is scum, i.e. he is scum therefore what he says is scummy. Cases are supposed to built the other way around.
I do have some questions about the end of yesterday for Ceph, though: Why did you wait so long to place a vote? And why did you park your vote on the MM-nonwagon? I know you said you were willing to go with the Apoth-wagon, but you didn't really put your money where you mouth is.
Over the rest of the holidays, I'll do a complete re-read (not focused on one specific player) and see if I come up with anything new. I get the feeling that there's probably scum somewhere in (OGML, qwintz, Jazz) and I want to find him/her.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Just as a note, I've decided that there's no way OGML would have re-started the SC wagon immediately on replacement if he was SC's buddy. That would be an insane play for scum to make. So, yeah, I'm not thinking OGML-scum anymore, even though I don't like how/where he's leading the game today at all.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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