Hi.
Town.
Are you really expecting anything other then that for a response?
Hi to everyone else.
I'll be reading up later today.
In post 172, Lalendra wrote:In post 165, farside22 wrote:Lal reads scummy to me. Can't put a finger more then the reads she/ he Gave.
I can't believe the mislynch comment from the ari read that is based on meta, then criticizing orc for asking about history from others, which given the convo going on would be a natural question to ask.
I sort of felt dirty reading the post because I half wondered about bias towards friends.
I don't think that me taking Ari's meta into account, and also scrutinizing Orcinus for asking about everyone else's meta, are irreconcilable/scummy. Using meta is fine, but I didn't see the usefulness in asking about the meta of others - I wouldn't believe anything anyone said.
What about my reads stuck you as scummy, aside from that one point? Also, when you say bias towards friends, to whom are you referring, and where do you see the bias?
In post 174, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 122, Aristophanes wrote:I'll have to parse all this when I get home from work.
Too much to try addressing on my phone.
In post 228, Lalendra wrote:In post 227, farside22 wrote:Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.
Can you elaborate?
In post 234, Lalendra wrote:honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.
In post 236, Lalendra wrote:Sorry what's omgus?
In post 238, acryon wrote:In post 235, farside22 wrote:In post 234, Lalendra wrote:honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.
I've said more then that and I'm voting ari for an actual reason.
Your reason was naked vote bs.
You meta read on ari was vague. Show how you explained the meta as you stating it was town or scum meta.
Explain mislynch then a vote on ari with one post
Explain why multiple people who know meta about each other would have anyone lie.
You know why you can't.
Because it makes no sense
Nice omgus comment.
From town to scum based on Jack fucking shit
How much of Lalendra's play do you think could be contributed to what seems to be relative unfamiliarity with at least online mafia?
In post 241, acryon wrote:In post 239, farside22 wrote:
I thought they came from another site that plays mafia. I recall one said something about lal always killing them.
Yeah, but not knowing OMGUS and other cues makes me think Lal is still pretty newish. Now, personally I think that parts can be attributed to that, but I still think she's scum.
Knowing she has only played one game on their site, do your feelings change?
In post 279, Ginko wrote:
Bad at explaining things but it's basically trying to find evidence to prove your own reads rather than letting the evidence form the reads.
^Johnny
In post 288, VysePresident wrote:Anyway, down to business.
VOTE: Ginko
--I'm not really sure about my Ari read at this point. I still dislike his early play, but his more recent content is so far afield of what I'd expected from him that I'm second-guessing my ability to read him. He's not a terrible lynch, but I'm leaning towards one of Ginko or Acryon at the moment, for reasons I'll hit in a second. Prawn isn't great, but there's not a lot to go on, and my read on Lalendra is pretty meh at this point. I'd probably put them both lower on my list than Ari.
--So, the thing that's bugging me the most about Ginko is that I gather both heads have played a number of games with most of you guys, and I'd have expected them to be on top of the mess I'm seeing here as Town. We're stuck in a morass of text-walls being hurled at each other, with very little purpose or effect that I can see.
Correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I feel like they're in the best position to be sorting through the game, and I don't like that they're not actively doing so. There's a bit of Townish noise, but it doesn't really seem to lead anywhere. I'd really, really like to see some more content from you guys. It wouldn't be too hard to get me to shift my vote at this point.
--I dislike Acryon's 121 - I'm not really seeing the defensiveness people were talking about, but I do dislike the way he puts his vote on Ari. His reasoning is weak, and feels more like an excuse. His response implying that he was pressuring is thin.
On the other hand, there are a few posts of his I like, mostly from when it feels like he's sorting through the game. Consider this me taking note of a bad gut read that I really need to sort through.
--I'll analyze the Lalandra case & wagon in the morning. I'm literally falling asleep at my computer right now.
In post 299, Ginko wrote:Oh, because Johnny sucks at explaining things.
@farside:
Confirmation bias is typically when a player is like "I think this person is scum" and then they proceed to see everything and anything that player does through a biased POV because they already think they're scum.
P1: "I think player X is scum because of this one reason that might be reasonable. I also think their lurking is scummy!"
P2: "But player X has a general meta of lurking?"
P1: "I'm literally so sure he's scum so I will ignore this consideration."
I'm gonna go suffer through schoolthings now.
zzzzz.
-Cheetory6
In post 191, Aristophanes wrote:OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.
Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.
I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.
As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.
I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.
In post 247, Aristophanes wrote:@Everyone: In #115 I said "Ithat you were baiting us." not "Iseethat you were baiting us."saw
I know it may seem insignificant, but I never claimed I reacted because I knew what he was doing. This was a remark after the fact where I acknowledged what had happened.
I was theorizing out loud moreso than accusing. If you, Metal, and Lalendra are scum together, the grouping is being messy about it. You specifically have not been messy. I suppose this was more myself putting an FoS than anything else.Of the three, you're lowest on my scumdar.In post 206, West9 wrote:I know it's late and I'm tired but I had another question for Ari: what about my play is striking you as "messy?" That's something I haven't heard yet
k, what does this mean? I'm open to a conversation about this if you like. Not that I have much to say. Whatever floats your boat though.In post 227, farside22 wrote:Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.
[/quote]So, here we go.In post 242, Lalendra wrote:
Ari – as Acryon pointed out in 181, there is something off about his play in this game. The “I posted a vote on metal just to see what would happen because I didn’t have time for a real post” could be legit, but doesn’t ring true. When he finally came back to the game after being away for a bit, he tunneled in on me, West and Metal, without really saying anything about anyone else until later. That could have just been because he was pressed for time. The stuff West said wasn’t particularly vague, so his point about me leaving a scumtrail also didn’t ring true. Seems like he’s just picking out parts of my meta that will implicate me in this, to plant the seed of doubt with everyone, without creating any real solid tie-ins. Also this:
In post 196, Aristophanes wrote:As for the New Years thing, yeah, I remembered that conversation and was somewhat wary of quicklynching when I came into D1. I wanted to test the waters with this crowd though regardless.
In post 199, Aristophanes wrote:It was a fun time! I have no clue if there was something significant I was supposed to remember though...
Reconcile these two statements, if you can.
I did post the metal vote to get reactions. I didn't have the time for a full post and didn't want to half-ass it, so I set that up. I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted an honest reaction from people. I think you're just bitter that all this has turned on you because of it.
I also was pressed for time, as I have been most of this game, when making that post. I still agree with my read, though I'm most confident on you as scum. If you're not, I will definitely reevaluate things. I'll also probably be lynched D2 if I am wrong. It's a risk, but I feel you're scummy and am just theorizing in case I do take a bullet.
Reconciling the statements is easy. I remembered the conversation specifics when they were brought up. They were in the back of my mind when I started this game. By the time he asked about it, I couldn't think of anything that could be related to this game. I saw where he was going once he stated his point. I mean, that's basically what I said at the time. I don't get what feels off about it, but fill me in if there is anything.
Toss shit my way if you guys like, I'll be here for another hour I think.
In post 316, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:@Vyse: What do you think of Ginko's read on West (of him baiting Ari and such)? (also remember to answer my question about your expectations of Ari when you get the time =P, also also: d2forums only allows the ISO-like search for registered users P= ).
@Farside: I mean, Ari sort of says he didn't realize it was reaction-testing on the same quote you used, and he also said more about that near the top of page 11. Don't have a problem with you still being mad about that, but saying this because your wording seems like if Ari was still trying to act as if he knew what Orc was doing from the beginning.
Also:farside22 wrote:
I absolutely hate this post. She is not voting for her strongest scum read.
The reason being was in her first post and nothing has changed.
I think that was a mistake of Lal's, she said in the next post to ignore everything previous to the West quote of that post (I'm assuming she copy-pasted her own previous readslist while writing the post and forgot to erase it all or something like that).
ATTN YOUNG:
Spoiler:
Yo, Prawn, thou your latest post is an answer to the Orc question, can you address the rest of this please?
In post 283, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:He voted, didn't direct any questions toward Orci, then unvoted one day after.
Hmm... he seemed to demand and explanation from Orci about the random votes thou. Do you read the unvote itself any way in particular? Speaking of Orci: do you have any thoughts on him?
I kinda like Glinko's stuff on Acryon. Btw @Acryon, can you give me your thoughts on Metal?
@West:
So basically Ari's wagon still sucks but I don't like the Lalendra one enough to put it at L-1
Is there something in particular you don't like about the Lal wagon (alternatively: Something in particular you like about Lal that gives her townpoints)?
@Lalendra: You initially mentioned you thought Ari was being typical Ari and that general silliness was mostly just his meta. Later you said West's case helped in swaying you. Besides the Metal-vote: Do you just generally agree with West? Can you walk me through the evolution of your read (like, where did "typical silly Ari" go, for example)?
In post 333, Lalendra wrote:In post 321, farside22 wrote:Lal's read list is completely different wording then her first read list and has quotes she never used before.
Not sure what happened there.
I was just responding to a request I received to provide an updated read list on the people I thought were scum in my first post. Explain how my views had changed as a result of the goings-on between my first post and this one.
In post 337, Metalcyanide wrote:In post 315, prawneater wrote:@orcinus/acryon/metalcyanide would you mind posting your town/scum lists?
Scum lean:
Aristophanes
acryon / orcinus_theoriginal
West9
Null:
Lalendra
farside22
Ginko
prawneater
VysePresident
Town:
Lyserg-Zeroz
Metalcyanide
Unknown:
YYR
In post 171, Lalendra wrote:Ari - random Metal vote with no reasoning (unless it was earlier and I missed it), conveniently after West pointed out the likelihood of an Ari/Metal scumteam? If you're scum, that seems like a less than well thought out attempt at scum-distancing, yet I can't ignore it, particularly in conjunction with West's points, which ring true for me now that I see it all in one place.
VOTE: Aristophanes
In post 234, Lalendra wrote:honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.
In post 347, Ginko wrote:Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.
-Cheetory
In post 357, farside22 wrote:In post 171, Lalendra wrote:Ari - random Metal vote with no reasoning (unless it was earlier and I missed it), conveniently after West pointed out the likelihood of an Ari/Metal scumteam? If you're scum, that seems like a less than well thought out attempt at scum-distancing, yet I can't ignore it, particularly in conjunction with West's points, which ring true for me now that I see it all in one place.
VOTE: Aristophanes
In post 234, Lalendra wrote:honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.
In post 62, Aristophanes wrote:In post 60, West9 wrote:In post 48, Ginko wrote:@West, I'm seeing a lot of technical/non-game related stuff in your posts, so it kind of feels like your vote is just sitting there. Any particular reason for that?
No particular reason, no. It's not intentional, just haven't taken the time to really parse through the game until now.
@Lyserg - Ari not liking early wagons doesn't really upset my meta personal on him. Same with him not liking RVS and voting for orcinus.
Heavy, heavy backpedalling coming from Ari. I'm cool with my vote still being here. Also, he still hasn't disproved my initial logic.
Your initial logic being you're town, thus I'm scum?
As I said, we could both be scum in this setup.
Also, how can I prove I'm town without a lynch.
In post 191, Aristophanes wrote:OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.
Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.
I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.
As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.
I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.
In post 362, VysePresident wrote:In post 326, acryon wrote:
Oh, not at all. I think Lal is almost definitely scum. Hence why my vote hasn't moved.
Why? I'm not seeing it.
I pointed out a couple posts in my thoughts on you. Could you elaborate on your thoughts process here? (173, 207, 214)
Why is this scummy, and not just Newbish mistakes?
In post 347, Ginko wrote:Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.
-Cheetory
In post 383, Ginko wrote:I could be wrong, but it seems like you're trying to frame that it's off that I would comment on other people being opportunistic with their votes on Ari, but that I'm not scumreading Lalendra for having a case with holes in it?farside wrote:I was wondering why you said nothing about lal's cases which is basically full of missing things said in the game to create a case and why your fine with her "case" in ari.
I mean, if that's the case, I'm just not reading her intentions as being opportunistic to the same degree that I would for others. I kind of expect Lalendra or Aristophanes to be more likely to go after things that might not make a ton of sense. Scumtells don't work well when applied universally to every kind of player in every situation and I haven't seen the opportunism in the same way with Lalendra's case on Aristophanes.
I don't think readlists like prawn's are super out of the ordinary on this site. I had some weird vibes about prawn's first few posts, but I'm not feeling anything strong about him anymore. I'd like you to tell me what you think about acryon's 'flipping read' on Vyse.West wrote:Gink, I'm not really feeling this Acryon wagon. Want to hear your thoughts on what I just said about Prawn.
Eh. Was kind of worried that I might have missed a point somewhere along the way, but she also says this:West wrote:I think it's really telling that she went back on this point as well, though.
Is she really going back against your points if she later admits to this here or do you think she would blatantly backtrack like this?Lalendra wrote:Also the reason my reasoning for the Ari vote contains little of your argument is because I was given so much crap for agreeing with you and disliking the naked vote that I felt I should put together more solid points instead of going "yeah, what west said."
I'll try my best to read some of her stuff on D2 and compare tomorrow, but I just don't have any time right now. I don't know if I can see the lack of curious stuff without properly comparing the two playstyles.Lyserg wrote:@Ginko: Acryon wagon is sexy and all, but I feel like you are being too dismissive of the Lalendra wagon. Some of that contrived reasoning and the reactionary not curious attitude (that aligns with meta) feels like more than just weirdness to me.
Eh? I feel like that's a strong blanket statement about changing a read on someone o.oLyserg wrote:Also: "Willingness to change reads is townie" Applies to Acryon: Yes, no? why?
Is there a specific example of acryon's reads changing that you feel I should be looking at? I can check back later but I just don't have much time right now.
Acryon mixing up his read on Vyse feels badddd. I could see logically see townbad, but man my gut is screaming scum at that whole flipflop. I feel like if he was genuinely scumreading Vyse from before and had actually mixed up the meaning of Lyserg's question, he would have said it was weird that Lyserg was asking him for reasons why he would think Vyse is more likely to be town. I also dislike that he dodged answering Lyserg about West.
Orci and Young really need to do stuff.
Because they're fucking scary bastards and I don't like how quiet they're being q.q
-Cheetory6
In post 400, Honey bee wrote:Vote count 1.11
Lalendra (5):acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR, Lyserg-Zeroz
Aristophanes (4):West9, Metalcyanide, farside22, Lalendra
acryon (3):VysePresident, Ginko, prawneater
Not voting:
With 12 alive It takes 7 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-01-22 22:14:00)
In post 403, farside22 wrote:Vyse does have a different thought process.
Some part wonders if this outlook is looking for scum group only but the other part appreciates the differences.
With short time left a lynch is better then no lynch and I still see lal as scum.
Vote: lal
In post 439, West9 wrote:In post 437, farside22 wrote:Is there a protocol at the other website for when to claim?
you mean at our (ginko, west, ari, lal, metal, lys) place? not really.
In post 441, Lalendra wrote:Thanks farside, didn't see the other vote. Oh well, I'm dead again D1, shocking.
In post 444, West9 wrote:haha i forgot young oops
farside22 wrote:In post 439, West9 wrote:In post 437, farside22 wrote:Is there a protocol at the other website for when to claim?
you mean at our (ginko, west, ari, lal, metal, lys) place? not really.
Ah.
FYI for anyone new.
Most expect a claim at l-1 or when some intends to hammer and request a claim.
I'm dumb. For some reason, I thought you mean a protocol with something besides this.
In post 187, Lalendra wrote:
I'm dumb, so this just seems weird and I don get it, can you walk me through why you are suspecting him of specifically being a werewolf?
In post 460, West9 wrote:Why do you think werewolves would be confident at this point? Didn't half of their team just die?
The idea that D2 people would be less likely to kill D2 people is silly.
Enough people had listed orci as being scummy that scum trying to kill other scum still could've been the case here.
In post 284, YYR wrote:zzz
VOTE: Lalendra
Someone should smack me if I don't make a substantial post tomorrow.
In post 482, Ginko wrote:Your vote pivot at the beginning of today is weird farside. splain it.