Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[acryon]

Of course there's little point to a one-man wagon, but why would I ever forego someone I am very confident in as scum to go after someone I am pretty confident is scum? That doesn't make sense. Obviously if it were between say, a West-wagon and someone that isn't Ari wagon, I would vote West, but as long as there is time left in the day, I see little reason to leave the wagon I am very confident of in favor of one I am less confident in.

[acryon]

And sorry for the lack of activity. It's going to be a few days before I'm able to pop in as much as I can (although it won't be nearly as much as I like).st like normal, but I'll still try to jump in). Obviously not exactly a good time to not be able to post much, but it is what it is.

[farside22]

^Don't really feel like that's what I'm doing here, but yeah, kinda (I need to be in a really assertive mood to not doubt myself out loud even a little). I don't like that line out of West because it feels like overdoing his attack on Acryon (mistakes are things everyone makes).

Tbf you seem to question a lot of things on people.
I get lack of trust and such but sometimes it comes across as being a bit fencing with everyone.

It probably is a playstyle difference but in my world it reads a bit scuzzy because it gives the allusion of scum hunting but finding everyone scummy to put a case against no mater what.

That said. Can you tell me what post from metal you found that he addressed things against him?
Also when I say metal is scum hunting with in one group I do know he is voting ari (not a wolf read) but he isn't explain his scum reads other then associated reads which is pretty weak.

[farside22]

Also ari needs to come back and start giving scum reads

[Metalcyanide]

I also want to know why you'd think I'd care about me not being your "main target"

Sorry this confuses me. I didn't say, or at least mean to infer, that you cared about being my "main taget" which you weren't at the time. All I said was that you were focused on being on my possible wolf list. Someone please let me know if I'm missing something here.

[Metalcyanide]

West:

It's Day 2 and there are two scumteams. That you're relying solely on the votes for your reads and not at all on interactions is sketchy when you consider those two things.

I wasn't focusing on only 1 team at the beginning of the day. I had you, Ginko and Vyse as possible wolfs. I was voting for Ari as I think he is scum as well. I did say I thought he would be mafia along with YYR (now Jordan but that read was based of YYR lurking I need to see more from Jordan to come up with a proper read now).

West:

On the subject, the whole "you didn't vote Lal thing" is pretty dumb, and mischaracterizes my attempts not to put Lal at L-1 at inappropriate times with an attempt to defend her. This interpretation of my actions is completely wrong.

This still falls into the harping on it category . But anyways, I never really talked about your actions or anyone else’s I only brought up the votes. I think people would go back and look at the interactions themselves if they wanted to push any of you. I didn't even have an argument against any of you (aside from the, you didn't vote for Lal thing) until our last few interactions. I was just putting it out there as a possibility.

[farside22]

Metal: who are your scum reads based on game play? And why?
No this does not include the west read.

[farside22]

West:

It's Day 2 and there are two scumteams. That you're relying solely on the votes for your reads and not at all on interactions is sketchy when you consider those two things.

I wasn't focusing on only 1 team at the beginning of the day. I had you, Ginko and Vyse as possible wolfs. I was voting for Ari as I think he is scum as well. I did say I thought he would be mafia along with YYR (now Jordan but that read was based of YYR lurking I need to see more from Jordan to come up with a proper read now).

West:

On the subject, the whole "you didn't vote Lal thing" is pretty dumb, and mischaracterizes my attempts not to put Lal at L-1 at inappropriate times with an attempt to defend her. This interpretation of my actions is completely wrong.

This still falls into the harping on it category . But anyways, I never really talked about your actions or anyone else’s I only brought up the votes. I think people would go back and look at the interactions themselves if they wanted to push any of you. I didn't even have an argument against any of you (aside from the, you didn't vote for Lal thing) until our last few interactions. I was just putting it out there as a possibility.

Why is lurking all you have on this?
Why is lack of vote on lal alignment indictive when you did not vote for her?

[farside22]

Basically what I see from metal is x didn't vote for scum therefore they maybe scum instead of analysising the players motives for not voting and not analysising anything from it.

Also while I'm thinking.
Metal: why is ari still a scum read? If ari where to not flip scum who would you look at and why?

[West9]

I feel slightly off about West pushing farside's points to Acryon when some of them had counters with Lal's meta of which West should be aware of (Lal relying on the points made by a scummate and defending them), only "slightly" off because Acryon had no reason to know about Lal's meta and he really was just ignoring farside's points.

About Lal's meta, is your point that I might be scum because Lal might have been relying on my points?

West:

On the subject, the whole "you didn't vote Lal thing" is pretty dumb, and mischaracterizes my attempts not to put Lal at L-1 at inappropriate times with an attempt to defend her. This interpretation of my actions is completely wrong.

This still falls into the harping on it category . But anyways, I never really talked about your actions or anyone else’s I only brought up the votes. I think people would go back and look at the interactions themselves if they wanted to push any of you. I didn't even have an argument against any of you (aside from the, you didn't vote for Lal thing) until our last few interactions. I was just putting it out there as a possibility.

Gonna have to give you a hard nope on that. You gave us scumreads. You said "these are my scumreads and they are my scumreads because they didn't vote for Lal" And now you're scummily retconning it so that you don't have to defend them as scumreads.

I also want to know why you'd think I'd care about me not being your "main target"

Sorry this confuses me. I didn't say, or at least mean to infer, that you cared about being my "main taget" which you weren't at the time. All I said was that you were focused on being on my possible wolf list. Someone please let me know if I'm missing something here.

You said that I kept "harping on the wolfWest read" despite the fact that you had Ari as your vote. This is implying that you think I should have dropped it because I wasn't your main target, which in turn implies that you think I should care that I'm not your main target.

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

@Acryon: It was more commentary on Ari than on you, I found that whole paragraph of questioning kinda off, but I mean, if you yourself are fine with it makes me feel like it was prolly nothing =/.

(1)Tbf you seem to question a lot of things on people.
I get lack of trust and such but sometimes it comes across as being a bit fencing with everyone.

It probably is a playstyle difference but in my world it reads a bit scuzzy because it gives the allusion of scum hunting but finding everyone scummy to put a case against no mater what.

(2)That said. Can you tell me what post from metal you found that he addressed things against him?
(3)Also when I say metal is scum hunting with in one group I do know he is voting ari (not a wolf read) but he isn't explain his scum reads other then associated reads which is pretty weak.

(1)Oh, I thought with "devil's advocate" you meant more like playing devil's advocate to advocate for other people (like defenses). That's fair P=, to make it short: I think of myself as a generally sparse player, this setup is probably making me more paranoid than usual.

(2)Not sure I get the question. The thing I said about the wagon he himself was on? I meant when he looked at the votes on Ari while he was voting Ari himself during D1 (I like the fact, in principle, of questioning the wagon one's standing on; that he questioned and scumleaned on West out of that is interesting at least).

(3)Hmm... I can see that.

(

@Mod

V/LA for this whole week. Like last time I said this, I don't know in advance the limitations on internet access I'll have. I'll either keep playing when possible or inform you if replacement is better P= (sorry for any inconvenience) @Players: Either way, I won't be around much or at all during the next 24 hours)

P-EDIT: The point was that farside mentioned possible reasons to say you were not scum given the interactions with Lal, but the Lal-meta makes me disagree with part of the argument, and you know her meta and have seen she's done that with scummates, but were pushing for farside's point anyways. In the sense that people did need to address those points, there's nothing wrong with it, in the sense that you might've known of reasons to disagree with farside's argument yourself but used them anyways, it feels dishonest.

[West9]

My knowledge of my alignment is gonna trump whatever my interpretation of Lal's meta is. I happen to know that Lal and I were not on a team, and one of the benefits of that knowledge is that I don't have to consider at all whether Lal's attempts to use my reasoning against Ari was wolf buddying wolf. I'm not gonna bring up "reasons to disagree with farside's points" that I know to be untrue, whether or not they are confirmed to be untrue to the rest of the game.

That's where my head is about that. I get that it might not be helpful to you, as you don't know my alignment and might see all of this as lies, but whatever.

[Honey bee]

Vote count 2.06

acryon (4):

prawneater, West9, Aristophanes, Lyserg-Zeroz

Metalcyanide (1):

farside22

West9 (1):

Metalcyanide

Aristophanes (1):

acryon

Ginko (1):

~Jordan`

Not voting: Ginko, VysePresident
With 10 alive It takes 6 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-02-08 08:07:00)

*prodding ~Jordan`*

[~Jordan`]

curses

[farside22]

My knowledge of my alignment is gonna trump whatever my interpretation of Lal's meta is. I happen to know that Lal and I were not on a team, and one of the benefits of that knowledge is that I don't have to consider at all whether Lal's attempts to use my reasoning against Ari was wolf buddying wolf. I'm not gonna bring up "reasons to disagree with farside's points" that I know to be untrue, whether or not they are confirmed to be untrue to the rest of the game.

That's where my head is about that. I get that it might not be helpful to you, as you don't know my alignment and might see all of this as lies, but whatever.

This hurts my head to read.

More in a moment.

[farside22]

I can't focus right now.
Lyse: can you link to the post you liked from metal you are referring to.

[Metalcyanide]

Farside:

Metal: who are your scum reads based on game play? And why?
No this does not include the west read.

Best scum reads right now besides West are:
- Ari; he is reading off to me I'm sorry I can't link something significant but my gut won't let me drop it
- Jordan; see below but basically lurking
- Maybe Prawn; he's kinda disappeared D2, I don't like that he just saying Ari is town when others still have questions, he's also done the same with Lyserg.

Farside:

Why is lurking all you have on this?

Because the 3 people who have had the role Jordan is currently in have not said much. I find it highly unlikely that all 3 people would be using a lurking strategy but I find it weird all 3 people haven't talked. So I'm chalking this up to lurking for now until Jordan says more than he has. I also don't like his only "substantial" post was to jump on my wagon and Acryon's wagon but not vote.

Farside:

Metal: why is ari still a scum read?

Gut, and still don't like his play

if ari where to not flip scum who would you look at and why

As much as i currently like him I would have to look at Acryon. He is pushing hard on the Ari wagon.

Metalcyanide wrote:
In post 668, West9 wrote:
I also want to know why you'd think I'd care about me not being your "main target"

West

You said that I kept "harping on the wolfWest read" despite the fact that you had Ari as your vote. This is implying that you think I should have dropped it because I wasn't your main target, which in turn implies that you think I should care that I'm not your main target.

I don't mind being questioned on something so if something strikes you as off I would expect you to ask about it. What is getting me is how much you were bringing it up. Curious, did I not originally not explain myself well or did you just not like what I said?

[Metalcyanide]

@Mod Honey Bee can you please fix the quote in the above post. Should be from Metalcyanide wrote - main target.

Sorry, I can't really tell what you're exactly going for there. I suggest you repost that section fixed if you want to clarify your meaning there. -hb

[~Jordan`]

I'll just go into skim mode tonight. Close reading is always a bad idea.

[VysePresident]

Welp, slowly working my way back into the game for real.

[VysePresident]

I'll just go into skim mode tonight. Close reading is always a bad idea.

I'd actually be really curious what your thoughts are on the game in general. Why Metal & Acryon? What are your thoughts on the group as a whole?

[VysePresident]

feeling a bit paranoid about acryon with people still scum reading him. I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.
I found it a dishonest response from acryon not to note those points about lal and west when I asked him.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm get that you're scumreading Acryon, but I'm not sure why.

[VysePresident]

@Lyserg - Can I get a short summary of your reads on each player, please? I'm having a difficult time telling where exactly you are at any point. Like, aim for maybe one or two sentences, please, and we'll work from there.

[VysePresident]

@vyse: I don't look at join dates typically. Lal read lost to me and bad from the word go. West has read more indepth thought process. I have played with someone who never played online mafia and came across as west did. No one really said anything about ari but the more he post the more he reads newb. He may not be, it's not obvious and I asked acryon for reaction purposes and he failed.

Not sure if this was meant to be addressed at me, but I'm curious, why is the Lal read suddenly lost to you now?

How did Acryon fail the reaction test?

I'm having a hard time following your thought process.

[VysePresident]

Metal's is the best as far as I've read.
But acryon's is cool too!

Not comfortable with this post.

Looking forward to you explaining your reads.