Mini 575 - Roach's Mafia! - Abandoned.

[xXFoxXx]

Marmalade Wrote; (quote button isn't working for me)

xXFoxXx wrote:
Unvote Vote: Caf19

For calling it a "Rival Badwagon"


Um, is this serious, or am I dumb?

It's not serious, it was an early vote before we really had much discussion going, and I'd already accidentally OMGUS'd (randomvoting VRK after he voted me), so I changed my vote and stuck it on caf19, simply because I don't really understand why you would start a "rival bandwagon".

Not to be taken as anything active.

PS: I AM being a little quiet, but there's not really a whole lot for me to say, anything I could say would really be just repeating everybody else. I do think a few certain individuals are acting scummier than others, and to different degrees, but I don't really see anything that hasn't be said that needs to.[/quote]

[Pink Puppy]

(SNIP)

I also think that it's very suspicious that VRK and Snix has disappeared after coming under fire.

(SNIP)

Thanks for that, I am amazed that I get attacked, it technically wasn't even a triple vote just a double (yeah, I know that's part of why I'm under attack), but they have been ignored, caf and marmalade, any reason they were left out of this? because they lurked?

Do not think that other people's scumminess makes you look better.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

(SNIP)

Do not think that other people's scumminess makes you look better.

I never said that, did I? I meant that they have barely even been addressed after that, mostly because they won't answer questions and are lurking.

[Snix]

sorry for the lurking. I just haven't really seen much to comment on.

But the lurking thing brings up a good point, anyone notice that Zedicious has disappeared with the wagon still on him? It really seems to validate my whole "not trying to defend himself" point. He seems apt to let others defend him and squabble over petty things like random stage double voting. Some people seem to be coming down really hard on the wagoners without real substance. At least to me.

[Lalmtreasteek]

I'm have a hard time feeling excited for reading this game so I'll summary what I've seen since it's easy.

34- my post, the first post I'm reading
zeddicus says miller could be a lyncher
mod post
unnoficial ruler unvotes himself I think
VRK wants random bandwagon against zeddicus.
unofficial ruler votes zeddicus, BW could start conversation, also he point out he already had a random vote for him ??
Snix vote zeddicus
populartajo says what it's lynch -1?
VRK say no 7 of course he's not right
zeddicus says "glorkish sounds good" ?? but he won't react to the bandwagon except at -1 he will claim ??
Snix says or you could react now and say who is scummy
caf19 says rival bandwagon time, vote for unofficial ruler, for aggressive voting revoting "unintentionally deceiving the mod" hee
vrk says oops my bad not 7
xxfoxxx vote for caf19 because he said it's a "rival bandwagon" ??

PAGE 3
zeddicus votes Snix, why is voting me feel real? he think Snix is scummy for saying it feels real but true actually it has nothing to go on ??
Snix say let's go to lyncher -1
Cookie Monster says marmalade taste awesome ?? don't say (can't see who is quoting) you are a jelly fan.
Pink Puppy replaced.
populartajo vote VRK for lying ??
Pinp Puppy suspects are VRK unofficial ruler, Snix, Cookie. VRK supsicion whatever. unofficial ruler votes zeddicus three times. Hm ok. Snix supsicion is whatever. Cookie didn't contribute I guess.

unvote Snix

I think I am voting for him.

caf19 says Snix why do you want a claim so early from zeddicus. unofficial confused the mod for voting three times.
Pink Puppy says I see a reason to vote for VRK but it is not because he "LIED"
Fox says how did he lie, check VRK out further maybe, VRK did everything even confuse mod. huh lame. I think.
VRK didn't understand lie accusation from Fox.
VRK say Pink Puppy did you look at this game not moving etc
Pink Puppy says explain a reason for random bandwagon purpose.
Fox says it can be useful etc.
I'm not agreement iwth Snix in post 65 saying zeddicus outed a power role (himself) when he said he would not react to the bandwagon.
populartajo 66 67 seem ok. The lie accusation is sill though
zeddicus says "as far as I can tell it demonstrates nothing" talking about what he said about claiming at L -1. I don't like I think zeddicus said here that either he is power role or he want scum to think that. If so bad point for zeddicus. Not clear to me what everything zeddicus is saying in this post 68.
Snix say why even hint that you're a power role. Evidently Snix thinks zeddicus understands that way of thinking.
Pink PUppy post 70 is not understanding since obviously Snix wanted the claim only after zeddicus said his remark about it
71 I vote Snix, good move for me, wonder why I unvoted
72 Snix clrify well, still not happy with his assumption
73 unofficial ruler counters Pink Puppy's suspicion.
Cookie Monster not posting

PAGE 4
zeddicus links to the setup post (I never played with find the setup post before)
Pink Puppy say Idunno I think "refusal" to claim is protown. I dislike Pink Puppy seems to understand Snix optinion poorly.
unofficial says setup stuff in 77
pink puppy 78
Fox agrees how do you prove yourself innocent.
This maybe newbie game.
80 Snix explains again. If I like this guy more I feel bad for him.
unofficial another setup post. explain he meant "defend himself" etc.
Snix shrug.
populartajo ask for prods
Caf guess Marmalade and avinsashv need prods. NOt say much, repeat vote reasoning for unofficial.
avinashv post scum post in 85.
86 yay we made it.
Caf19 says all this.
unnoficial voted zeddicus 2nd time for being a funsucker. Caf says this is not a serious vote NOT LIKE what unofficial said it was. Then 13 minutes after random bandwagon started. Voted him again. So not like he didn't defend himself. There was not time. That is interesting.

87 now.
Marmalade criticize Fox vote for Caf (I also ?? here)
disagrees with Pink Puppy. maybe I can be friend with Marlade
was surprised that populartajo is serious.
He liked my FOS jobs.
Sees case on unofficial.

Pink Puppy maybe scum in 88
Caf says more talking please
92 unofficial says it is 13 hours not 13 minutes.
Caf continues vote
Marmalade votes unofficial for story change. I need to read it closer. Is it a bad change or forgetting you know.

97 interested in Pink Puppy saying he can't understand Caf's story change argument. Or how Marmalade agrees with it.
Did VRK say Pink Puppy is dumb? I really think Pink Puppy respond not too well to VRK.

um hm, PAGE 5
Fox respond to rival bandwagon thing still I don't understand that vote.

I will just post this, hopefully not annoy you all with my lazy typing. I'll think about this and then find the scums.
For now

vote avinashv

for being scum

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Great, now comment on posts before 34 and re-read so you understand what went on up to that point

[caf19]

Lalm, why the vote on avinashv? Your post-summary doesn't seem to paint him as your top suspect (well, you say he made a "scum post" but not why you think this is the case). We're past the random stage now.

[avinashv]

Can you point out what exactly was scummy about my post?

[Roach]

Since I believe discussion is a bit lagging, I shall impose a deadline.

Your deadline is...

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2008, AT 2359 EST

(that's 11:59 PM for you civilians).

-ROACH

PS: Don't kill each other!

not

[caf19]

Hey Roach, can we have a vote count? Thanks.

[Roach]

Hold on, lemme meta a bit...

I think it's this:

AVINASHV: 1

ZED: 3

CAF19: 1

Not voting: Plenty.

-ROACH

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Zed only has 3 votes.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Another note, we need 4 votes to deadline lynch (If we are doing it by standard rules). Anyone have thoughts on this game?

PS:

Mod: Prod everyone?

[Pink Puppy]

Zeddicus is also absent in another game I have with him, so I think he may need replacement.

vote: VRK

to get the ball rolling. My reasons have already been posted, plus he hasn't responded to me.

[Snix]

I think, personally, if Zeddicus picks up the prod but doesn't post in here. Or if he does, doesn't really address anything we lynch him. IMO.

[populartajo]

This game deserves more attention.
I made a quick reread. Exams are kicking my ass. Ill post more on Tuesday. a) I still think VRK [made a mistake, lied to us] but I agree its not enough proof to suspect him hard. I also dislike his posterior [lurking, desinterest of the game] but it would be very hypocritical to suspect him for that when me and others are doing the same very thing.
b) Ill prob need to read more but sometimes I dont like what Snix and PinkPuppy are trying to do. They seems so active and they're going hard after everything that moves. However, they could be sincerely scumhunting and Im going to ask them some questions.
Question N1: About zeddicus and UROE, can I see what's exactly your cases against them?

I think, personally, if Zeddicus picks up the prod but doesn't post in here. Or if he does, doesn't really address anything we lynch him. IMO.

Pink Puppy has stated that he probably needs a replacement. Why do you still want to lynch him?

[Snix]

If you'll note I said if he picks up the prod but continues to lurk. If he really needs a replacement than he should get one and I'll decide later about his replacement.

My case has already been layed out. He seems to be bread crumbing a role that we cannot be sure we have. (something very pro-town) But other than that he seems to be apt to hang. With the deadline, 4 would be a lynch correct? So he is currently at L-1 and yet even when he gets to where he said he'd respond he has yet to do so. He's been lurking ever since the bandwagon on him lost interest and seems to be reluctant to save himself. If he's some self-destructive role he'd still be hurting the town, right?

[avinashv]

Apologies for the lack of input.

I'm game for a Zeddicus lynch; I agree with the arguments laid out against him. Lalm still hasn't replied to my post, but hasn't replied at all, so I'll chalk that down to a lack of logging in for now.

Zeddicus' last vote seemed out of context, plus the fact that he was already voting for UOE and didn't unvote.

Mod

, how did you handle that? He also said that at L -1 he'll "react by claiming". I don't see that. I'll hammer tomorrow if there's no response from him on the matter.

[caf19]

I don't like avinashv's eagerness to lynch already,

FoS avinashv

We have 10 days left to discuss who to lynch and we need to use this time well - given the relative dearth of meaningful discussion so far, it would be anti-town to try and end the day soon (as you seem to want to do). I agree that we should be suspicious of zeddicus for his absence, but I hardly think we've seen enough evidence to lynch him (the case against him is based mostly around his breadcrumbing a power role and his subsequent lurking - it's not a huge amount).

Also, zeddicus is NOT at "L-1" per se. He is at 3 votes, that is 4 from lynch. If he's on 4 votes, and nobody else has more than 4, then he'll be lynched on April 3 (although that is just the standard rule, I think it actually varies from game to game -

Roach

, could you clarify this game's deadline lynch rule? Thanks), but he will not die at 4 votes before the deadline. So we shouldn't expect a claim from him just yet.

Currently there are two wagons of three votes - zeddicus and UROE (by the way avinashv, do you realise you're still voting for UROE?). If anyone is unhappy with lynching either of these people and wants to start a separate wagon, now would be the time to do so. There are still votes hanging around from the random stage or pages 2 and 3 which weren't entirely serious (avinashv's vote on UROE, Cookie Monster's vote on Marmalade, Fox's vote on me etc) - I think everyone should place a serious vote and see where that takes us (as long as it doesn't result in someone getting hammered right away, obviously).

I think zeddicus and Cook!e Monster need replacing, because I don't want it just to come down to lynch-a-lurker on deadline day.

[avinashv]

Yes, I do realize who I am voting for. Going by the votecount, I don't see a BW on UOE. I actually meant I'll hammer at deadline, assuming he is still at 3 votes, if there's no response. I'll admit, that was my bad. There are 5 other people in 2 BW's, but I am the one who is eager to lynch? I guess the start of this post may clarify that, I held off a vote purely because I'd like to hear from him an give him a chance.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Yes, I do realize who I am voting for. Going by the votecount, I don't see a BW on UOE. I actually meant I'll hammer at deadline, assuming he is still at 3 votes, if there's no response. I'll admit, that was my bad. There are 5 other people in 2 BW's, but I am the one who is eager to lynch? I guess the start of this post may clarify that, I held off a vote purely because I'd like to hear from him an give him a chance.

Caf's point was more of "If your vote isn't serious, simply unvote" There is no need to unvote and then revote immediately. I also don't want Lynch-a-Lurker as this goes off very little other than "These two are lurking, this one has one vote, this one has none, vote for the one that has one vote already" logic. I believe I have 2 votes Zed has 3 votes Caf has 1 vote and Marmalade has 1 vote, but not 100% sure.

[Cook!eMonst3r]

Sorry all, i'm going to need a replacement.

[killa seven]

im replacing in... mod already pmed me. ima read a lil

[Lalmtreasteek]

Great, now comment on posts before 34 and re-read so you understand what went on up to that point

Believe it or not since 34 was my post, I already read those messages before that.

Tell me if there's a particular thing you want me to notice.

about avinashv

I'm digesting all of what I've read, but I'm suspicious of Snix for his strange analysis of the setup of this game. I'm going to look around a bit before I make a vote because I'm not 100% sure that it's a good enough scumtell.

I guess I will take my vote back. I read this more like "here is a (bad) reason for lynch". But really he only says it's his vote. I could say it's scum to be reluctant to vote. But you don't really want to vote without understanding if it's the best. so

unvote avinashv

In my previous post I sometimes put ?? if I didn't understand something. Maybe if somebody want they can look for parts they can answer.

I'm read my previous post again and feel the scums don't jump out at me. I think Snix hurt the townbut I dunno he's scum.

My GUT says

vote caf

Now somebody wants to know why. Well I read only caf's post, and I find the scum feeling in 1 (detailed vote explanation feels like too much), 2 (not generous interpretation of Snix, seem like dirt-throw on unofficial), 3 (ask for prods, sorry it feels scum to me, explain again why the vote stays, yeah I dunno, I have struggle to feel caf as sincere), 4 "lies upon lies" post its feels like too much to me, skip a few, 8 is to me.

Well you know I will quote 8

Lalm, why the vote on avinashv? Your post-summary doesn't seem to paint him as your top suspect (well, you say he made a "scum post" but not why you think this is the case). We're past the random stage now.

Is it random to vote someone for make a scum post??

This aside. I don't like that caf cared that my "summary" doesn't show avinashv as my top suspect. Feels like he hoped for a reason to vote for somebody.

I probably won't clarify anything. But somebody will ask.

Between zeddikus and unofficial I prefer lynch zeddikus. That's just "FYI"

I feel caf maybe does not want us to lynch zeddikus. See, if you gave caf another suspect he can stop try to advocate lynching unofficial with not very great reasons in my opinion! Also if mod replaces zeddikus then he will probably not be lynch. Wild theory huh.

[caf19]

Hey Lalm, I'm having some trouble responding in full to all those points as I’m not sure I understand them all, but I'll have a go. I'll point it out if I need clarification on anything.

Now somebody wants to know why. Well I read only caf's post, and I find the scum feeling in 1 (detailed vote explanation feels like too much), 2 (not generous interpretation of Snix, seem like dirt-throw on unofficial), 3 (ask for prods, sorry it feels scum to me, explain again why the vote stays, yeah I dunno, I have struggle to feel caf as sincere), 4 "lies upon lies" post its feels like too much to me

Those four posts in order:

1) Was that really a detailed vote explanation? It was only a line or two. The third point in my explanation, "unintentionally deceiving the mod", was a bit tongue-in-cheek; it's the other two ("being over-aggressive, constantly unvoting and revoting") that were the real reasons. I don't think that they are overly detailed; they weren't terrible reasons for voting either.
2) It wasn't a "dirt-throw" at all: in that post I wasn't trying to make everyone suspicious of UROE in any way. I was just enquiring about the vote count, which I was genuinely unsure about at that time. As for not having a generous interpretation of Snix: no, it wasn't very generous, but if we interpreted each other generously all the time then we'd never find any scum. I don't think there is anything scummy about questioning Snix; it's a standard townie tactic.
3) I'm not sure there's much I can say about this. What makes it feel scummy to you?
4) Yeah, that was a bit too much I'll admit. I was pretty certain I'd found a mafia at that point, and probably focused too much on UROE in my early posts. Count that against me if you want, but I did have legitimate reasons to go after UROE. His more recent posts have been a bit better in my opinion so I haven't been pressuring him so much (although I haven't found a better place to put my vote at this point in time).

Well you know I will quote 8

Lalm, why the vote on avinashv? Your post-summary doesn't seem to paint him as your top suspect (well, you say he made a "scum post" but not why you think this is the case). We're past the random stage now.

Is it random to vote someone for make a scum post??

What I meant with that comment is that your vote

seemed

like a random vote. You said he made a "scum post" and voted him "for being scum", and didn't give any evidence to support that. As we were past the random stage, votes should always have reasoning behind them, and I didn't see any for yours.

This aside. I don't like that caf cared that my "summary" doesn't show avinashv as my top suspect. Feels like he hoped for a reason to vote for somebody.

I'm not sure I fully understand that: are you saying I was hoping for reasons to vote for avi, or reasons to vote for you? Neither is true though: I was simply questioning your reasons for voting avinashv. It was a perfectly acceptable thing to do and avinashv also did it.

I feel caf maybe does not want us to lynch zeddikus

That's pretty much right; I have been defending him all along and I'm not trying to hide that. My reasons were outlined in my last post: I don't think the case against him is currently strong enough to merit lynching. I agree that there should be some votes on him at this point because of his mammoth lurking; however, I would like that to be ultimately dealt with by zeddicus being replaced. Then everyone can evaluate his replacement to see if they still find him suspicious. I would much rather it happened that way than just lynching him while he's still lurking.

I think Vel-Rahn Koon might also need replacing - he's lurking just as badly as zeddicus. xXFoxXx needs a prod too, he hasn't posted in 6 days.