Mini 545 - The Final Stand Mafia - Dramatic Finish!

[shaka!!]

/confirm

[shaka!!]

vote: Khelvaster

for shits and giggles.

[shaka!!]

I thought it was rather apparent that my vote was a pressure vote.

[shaka!!]

I don't see the role fishing.

But shaka, first you say shits and giggles, now it was a pressure vote? What reason do you have to pressure Khel, anyways? By the time of your vote he had shown up and explained his absence.

Well if I vote someone and tell them straight away it's a pressure vote it's not gonna pressure any one much. I pressure is a good way to get conversation going. It seems to have worked.

[shaka!!]

But you thought it was 'rather apparent' anyway, which means to me that, by your own logic, it couldn't have pressured Khelvaster (or anyone) too much at all.

Whether it pressured him or not it got conversation going, which was the votes ultimate goal.

In which case I can

unvote:

[shaka!!]

A pressure vote can be used for multiple reasons. Which do you think is more probable, trying to get someone to claim on page 2/day 1 or looking to see how people react towards the vote?

[shaka!!]

My apologies--I am still convinced that a pressure vote is an attempt to get a roleclaim. There is no possible way I could respond with this little information currently in the game except by claiming if I were subjected to a "pressure vote." The fact that his vote wans't actually a pressure vote doesn't change his intentions.

The pressure vote wasn't only about you, I wanted to see how other people would react to it as well. Scum have a tendency to make big deals of small things. After all, this was only a third vote, out of 7.

[shaka!!]

Mod: Prod OhGodMyLife

Hasn't posted since her random vote.

[shaka!!]

Sorry, OGML sounds like a chicks name so I went with that, lol. :3

[shaka!!]

Bah, I get y'all's point. I misinterpreted what a "pressure vote" was.

Unvote

The misinterpretation doesn't change the fact that it was a reach. Unless it wasn't a reach. Do you think it wasn't?


Why exactly did you unvote, OGMY?

If someone were to push for a claim straight out of random voting, you wouldn't think it was a reach to vote for him? I thought he was pushing for me to claim, so I voted him posthaste thinking he was misplaying scum this game. Given what I thought at the time, I don't think it was a reach to vote him.

For his understanding of what a pressure vote was his reactions seems reasonable.

I was more interested in how everyone else would react towards the vote rather than Khel, how ever I didn't get to see much.

How ever I did find it odd how everyone seemed to question why Khel had assumed I was role fishing, people use pressure a lot when trying to get someone to claim, I think it would be highly likely that one or two scum are hiding with the townies how had questioned the vote.

This may be of use later on in the game.

[shaka!!]

I say how ever too much ):

[shaka!!]

How ever I did find it odd how everyone seemed to question why Khel had assumed I was role fishing, people use pressure a lot when trying to get someone to claim, I think it would be highly likely that one or two scum are hiding with the townies how had questioned the vote.

? How does this occur to you? In his previous post he noted that he thought you were even town then votes for you, apparently non-randomly, saying you're rolefishing. What's so odd about questioning this?

I don't think it is odd that people questioned it, but I do find it odd that so many people questioned it. One person asking a question is enough, 5 people asking the same question isn't gonna get a different answer. So for this reason I think that it is highly likely that a couple scum got behind the fad to try and look more town.


As for the Retroducts vs. Khel, I think Khel might be looking into it too much, when I read Retroducts post I didn't get the feeling that he was implying something or trying to set up a trap. I like to ask questions a lot to gather informations on players, to possibly catch them lieing or to see if they make a slip up. How ever I can not deny that Khel has brought up some very good points.

My mind is unsettled on the manner.

[shaka!!]

matter*

[shaka!!]

On a much more relevant note,
FoS: RetroDucts for trying to set me up like that. He was equivicating what Shaka did to an actual claim. As I was typing this, I realized he could use my words against me because Shaka didn't actually claim; he just did something extremely scummy in my eyes.

So you think he could have been

town

trying to get a role claim out of you?

Khelvaster, before shaka voted for you, if I had said, "Hey, I'm scum. Tell me your role," would you have believed me?

He was equivicating what Shaka did to an actual claim.

On second thought, Vote: Shaka for blatant rolefishing.

Bah, I get y'all's point. I misinterpreted what a "pressure vote" was.
Unvote

How this could possibly be construed as me thinking, at any point, that Shaka was town trying to get a claim from me is beyond me. It's common sense not to vote for people you think are town. People who want claims for no reason are almost always scum. I vote for people I think are scum. This logic follows common mafia logic. Therefore, I would not vote for someone I thought was town and wanted me to claim for no good reason (the definition of rolefishing).

I think he is right on the money here, Retro. Where did you get that idea from?

The difference is that random role-fishing is done in a manner too serious for random voting.

And this. I completely agree. Random voting starts discussion based on various things that happened during the random voting stage, such as someones voting habit or bandwagons etc etc. Random voting gets the game going and isn't often looked upon later on in the game. Random role-claiming could seriously effect the outcome of the game, something as mad as that is likely to get someone lynched. And lets say someone actually goes and role claims that would definitely affect the entire game, although that is unlikely.

The difference is significant.

[shaka!!]

Sorry I unexpectedly haven't been home for a while and have barely read a thing since my last post, I'll reread soon.

[shaka!!]

After rereading I've noticed something I am not quite fond of.

Mizzy.

You seem to posting very actively, but only for the sake of appearing active. The vast majority of your posts have little content and are just two liners with a neutral opinion. Neither attacking or defending, it seems as if she is trying to buddy up to everyone but not picking a fight with anyone.

[shaka!!]

*by* not picking a fight with anyone

[shaka!!]

You seem to posting very actively, but only for the sake of appearing active. The vast majority of your posts have little content and are just two liners with a neutral opinion. Neither attacking or defending, it seems as if she is trying to buddy up to everyone but not picking a fight with anyone.

What good is actively picking a fight with someone? No one has attacked me, so I have had no reason to defend, I answer questions when asked and try not to post drivel, and pay attention to the game. But no, I'm not going to cause a giant distraction and make an ass out of myself...thanks for the concern, though.

Perhaps, before you whine about someone who does post, you should consider being more active, yourself.

A dear friend of mine is leaving for America on Friday and another dear friend of mine has been kicked out his house and is staying at mine. I post when I can. How ever I was never complaining about you being active, I was complaining about you being active and doing nothing

productive

.

As for not actively picking a fight with someone, maybe I worded it wrong, but I believe the correct term is scum hunting. Whilst the majority of us here are trying to catch scum you are sitting on the sidelines singing Bob Marley. People are discussing issues and actually talking, the new posts they make on the matter at hand are where we will get our future discussions from. Trying to shut us up now to look for other scum tells will only be half as productive as if we continued to current conversations at hand and looked for scum tells at the same time. There is no rule saying you can only focus on one thing at time, but for some reason everyone one of your posts seem to read to me "I don't think this case is going anywhere lets look elsewhere".

[shaka!!]

I do. I was thinking about it when I made the post. How ever I will review it later tonight. Busy busy busy.

[shaka!!]

With all due respect. Not once did I accuse you of being scum, nor claim that what I was typing was some sort of scum tell, in fact I don't think I was even being aggressive. How ever I can see how you can read it as aggressive. I generally prefer to use colloquialism rather than formal writing, it's more 'me'. For example, when I said pick a fight, to me I don't think anything aggressive or 'asshole like' about it because I am a boxer and I live with that kind of thing everyday. Sorry for the whole aggressive tempo misunderstanding.

If you had waited a little bit longer before posting there you would've found out that I in fact didn't warrant much suspicion on you nor Trebis, which is what I was going to say when I was going to type up my proper response to erg0.

I was merely trying to give the game a push and I wasn't aware that you had been picked on Mizzy, which is why I chose you to spur on.

I do disagree about most of the game being one liners, though.

Oh, and if you are 6 months pregnant you should be resting more rather then playing this silly game. Mood swings are bad for all of us (: Congrads btw.

As for erg0.

I believe Mizzy has already answered it for me, it is very hard to play a game when only a few are involved in an argument. I myself find it difficult to involve myself in a game where a few people are arguing amongst themselves, so I often appear to be lurking.

I believe Trebis was just trying to involve himself in the game as best he could due to him not really being part of any discussions. I would've hit Trebis on it like I did with Mizzy but Trebis was already under fire so I decided I'd see if I could try to get Mizzy posting productively.

Notice that even though he is getting replaced, ever since he has been under fire and part of the discussion he has been posting productively?

So to conclude I believe that both Trebis and Mizzy (and myself and most others) are just having trouble including themselves in the game rather than purposely posting all talk and no action.

[shaka!!]

I'm pretty tempted to pull a Glork on you right now, Joubert.

[shaka!!]

Great, lynch me and it'll be good riddance...

Waaaay too over defensive. It's one vote out of 7, hardly an appeal to lynch.

[shaka!!]

And Shaka's post 215 is almost ironic because a very few posts after his, I am suddenly at L-1. Very impressive, actually...

I don't see any irony. Care to elaborate?

[shaka!!]

The deadline has enlightened me.

I'll reread the thread and post my findings.

[shaka!!]

Oh my God that was the most boring reread I've ever done.

The worst thing is that I can't pick anything up on anyone in this game so far because every quarrel that has been held between people has ended with a friendly hand shake and moving the conversation onto something completely irrelevant.

My word I just realized how scummy of a tactic that would be. I'll reread again and investigate scum distancing and buddying up possibilities when my brain has reformed from its melted state due to the reread I just took.

[shaka!!]

Just keep in mind that just because person A and person B argue and then make up all nicey-sweety doesn't mean it's a scumtell. Either of them, or both, could be town OR scum. That's why my brain hurts.

I'm not going to argue a case unless their is more evidence of them being scum other then distancing.

[shaka!!]

What the hell is it with crappy replacement entrances in here?

You should take a quick look at the first page of the cursed Mini #499.

[shaka!!]

@ Mizzy: Fortunately we managed to get some good replacements in the end who managed to do a 60 page plus reread and went to the finish with us. That was a fun game!

What the hell is it with crappy replacement entrances in here?

@killa seven:

You do know that blatant OMGUS votes with no logic or reasons, however lame, behind them are generally considered to be bullshit scummy moves, yes?

jive voted for me for no reason.. yet me voting for him for the same exact reason is a scummy move? ill unvote to make you all happpy

I believe Glork was being his usual sarcastic self when voting you, for the humour of it. You said lets lynch scum and he voted you 'cause its funny'.

An unvote would be nice but it won't change the way people view you.

[shaka!!]

I believe Glork was being his usual sarcastic self when voting you, for the humour of it. You said lets lynch scum and he voted you 'cause its funny'.

...eh?

When you voted killa seven?

[shaka!!]

Oh, it was Jive! I'm sorry I misread that.

[shaka!!]

So what scummy thing did Joubert do? Other then the no lynch suggestion..

[shaka!!]

I think our best is with Killa or Joubert.

[shaka!!]

Because I can't see Killa being anything but distracting to us in day 2, same goes with Joubert. I've lynched people for the same reason before if you think that saying this is scummy and you'd like a meta. I'll link you if I have to.

My vote is not where my mouth is because if it comes down to it I am not going to be voting them because they are scummy but rather because I think they are going to be very distracting in day 2.

[shaka!!]

I have to side with Killa on this one. Right from the get-go, the only potential question mark was him OMGUSing TJM before going off to do anything, and he picked up immediate and intense heat.

I think Shanka's reaction is way overboard, and Shaka moves way up in my suspicion list. His last post, answering why he's not voting, makes no sense. He calls Joubert/Killa "best bets," states that he wants to policy lynch them, but won't do so because he doesn't find them scummy. Who exactly

DO

you think is scummy, Shaka, and why the hell aren't you voting them with less than TWO days before deadline hits? You are running around making a lot of noise, but you're not giving us any firm opinions, and you are not helping to actually accopmlish

ANYTHING

.

Unvote, Vote: Shaka

I never said I wasn't going to vote them, I just told you why I hadn't voted them

yet.

I intended on laying down the hammer because I don't mind which of the two we go with.

I've done this before, read it here. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=50

JDodge reacted the same way as you.

Because I can't see Killa being anything but distracting to us in day 2, same goes with Joubert.

Joubert, I can understand, but saying this about killa is way preemptive.

What makes you say he'd be a distraction? Same question goes to Mizzy.

Well, both of them in their short time being here have been the target of scrutiny by most of the players. They haven't really been able post productively (hypocrite, hypocrite!) and has pretty much made conversation dull. People are barely discussing and all of the posts are just a few liners. Before both of their entrance to the game discussion was much more productive.

My vote is not where my mouth is because if it comes down to it I am not going to be voting them because they are scummy but rather because I think they are going to be very distracting in day 2.

I still don't see what you're waiting for here. With 2 days to deadline, I expect you would be making your mind up?[/quote]

Well, yeah I was waiting for the hammer or until the deadline closed in on us a bit more. A lot can happen in 48 hours.

[shaka!!]

shaka, you still haven't told me who you think is actually scummy and why you haven't done more to try to get them lynched.

If I had found someone scummy I would be pushing their lynch very hard right now. The reason why I was to settle on Joubert or Killa is because I don't find anyone scummy and in a deadline situation I'd rather go for broke rather then no lynch.

I was really hoping on a reread in day 2 to try and weed out some new information based on the night kills and new information that comes out of the night.

Joubert that post you just made is making this a whole lot harder for me, but with the deadline coming to a close I don't have much choice.

vote: Joubert

[shaka!!]

May I ask why I'm being targeted?

[shaka!!]

Glork was highly suspicious of you. Glork is now dead. Seems like as good a place as any to start.

More like full of WIFOM

I try not to read into night kills for this particular reason, you never know what the mafia is thinking and it is often very hard to figure it out. It's all too often that I've seen mafia send the town on wild goose chases using their night kill.

Seriously, how am I meant to defend myself from something like this? "Someone who found you scummy is dead." Um.. Ok.. I didn't do it. Happy?

[shaka!!]

does anyone have any more info on shakra other then the night kill thing?

Yes he lives in New Zealand but comes from South African and supports the Springboks because the All Blacks are all fags.

...

[shaka!!]

seems pretty dumb to vote him just for that reason.

It's a reasonable reaction, but one that is to be taken with lots of caution.

[shaka!!]

Here's what I think. I think that at least one of OMGL and Mizzy is scum, and that there is a fairly high chance that they are, in fact, scumbuddies.

And it also could be that he is attempting to link himself to a townie so that if he were to die and come up scum, you'd then lynch me. Funny thing is, if he dies and turns up town, you might ALSO lynch me because "OGML was right about her all along!" Such linking actions could be townie or scummy. Hell, Tar could be scum trying to make that happen to two townies.

WIFOM, but still something to keep in mind.

This is seriously alerting.

You do know that scum often use WIFOM to try clear there name, right?

vote: Mizzy

Also,

since he'd just fingered me

Lol.

[shaka!!]

I disagree. Tar presented proof that leads to the reasonable accusation that the two of you are scum buddies. His proof does not derive from WIFOM arguments or theories and imo does not contain a WIFOM argument and or theory. How ever, you try to make it look like WIFOM in post 369 by introducing the possibilities that he is scum trying to make you two look bad, or OGML is scum trying to buddy up to town. Tar does not present this case, you do.

And as for admitting your post was WIFOM and such, doesn't really matter if you ask my opinion. That's like doing something scummy and then at the end of the post admitting it is a scummy thing to do. It doesn't clear your name.

[shaka!!]

I'm inclined to believe Erg0 on this matter. In fact I think it is rather scummy to say that he was using a very WIFOM argument to throw suspicion on myself and or gain a speed lynch. It is way to obvious a tactic for scum to use (making them targets [assuming they make the speed lynch] on day 3) and I think Erg0 is of a higher standard of play than that.

[shaka!!]

I am planning to catch up on this game, I've just did a cross replacement into a game with 20 pages and have been catching up on that. I've done 10 pages of it. I am going to take a wee snack break and read this game.

[shaka!!]

and the one logical reason why you might have asked about the Cop is that you might be scum trying to draw out the Cop now that the Doc is dead[/i].

You're completely missing the other logical reason I might have asked...because I

made a mistake

. We were picking apart the flavor text, I had a thought, I put it in.

Speculating about a cop is bad, I admit, but considering I didn't speculate on who it might be, and only about its existence or not, and then never took that any further, I don't think it's nearly as bad as you think it is.

Whether it was a mistake or not, it was a bad mistake to make, possibly even scum mistake. Now scum are aware that the cop is likely to be out there and they are probably going to be looking for him a lot more carefully now.

Mizzy, I think if it was any other player I'd probably let the mistake excuse fly, but for some reason I've got you pinned down as a very cautious player, one that isn't likely to make a mistake like that. Am I wrong in saying so?

[shaka!!]

shaka!! - Scum read. He's guilty of IIoA (I'm seeing a lot more Mafia theory in shaka!!'s posts than I am comfortable with) and extremely passive even when he is active, both of which are things which really ping my scumdar. Also of note: Shaka!!'s been arguing with Mizzy since D1, but he's not only all-but-ignored OGML, he actually asked for an OGML prod during D1.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this mainly cause I don't understand most of it. Whats IIoA? Also, where have I used Mafia theory?

How can I be passive if I've been arguing with Mizzy all day? I ask for a prod of OGML because he was in another game of mine and wasn't posting there either. Can't remember if I prodded him in that game or not.

[shaka!!]

Mizzy I must say, every time I do a reread to get active again for some reason I find something wrong with, but every time you've managed to shut me up and change my mind.

If you're not town you're very good scum.

[shaka!!]

EBWOP

Mizzy I must say, every time I do a reread to get active again for some reason I find something wrong with your posts, but every time you've managed to shut me up and change my mind.

If you're not town you're very good scum. I'm leaning so far to the town side I'm practically falling on it.

[shaka!!]

I would like to hear an explanation from you as to how these posts were game-relevant.

<snipped for brevity>

And this. I completely agree. Random voting starts discussion based on various things that happened during the random voting stage, such as someones voting habit or bandwagons etc etc. Random voting gets the game going and isn't often looked upon later on in the game. Random role-claiming could seriously effect the outcome of the game, something as mad as that is likely to get someone lynched. And lets say someone actually goes and role claims that would definitely affect the entire game, although that is unlikely.

The difference is significant.

He asked me a question and I answered it, originally I had just stated I agreed with him but I was asked to elaborate so I did.

Oh my God that was the most boring reread I've ever done.

The worst thing is that I can't pick anything up on anyone in this game so far because every quarrel that has been held between people has ended with a friendly hand shake and moving the conversation onto something completely irrelevant.

My word I just realized how scummy of a tactic that would be. I'll reread again and investigate scum distancing and buddying up possibilities when my brain has reformed from its melted state due to the reread I just took.

I don't really see how that matches your description of IIoA.

Glork was highly suspicious of you. Glork is now dead. Seems like as good a place as any to start.

More like full of WIFOM

I try not to read into night kills for this particular reason, you never know what the mafia is thinking and it is often very hard to figure it out. It's all too often that I've seen mafia send the town on wild goose chases using their night kill.

Seriously, how am I meant to defend myself from something like this? "Someone who found you scummy is dead." Um.. Ok.. I didn't do it. Happy?

I was explaining why I couldn't defend myself from the case he presented against me.

Would you have preferred me to have left it at just WIFOM?

How can I be passive if I've been arguing with Mizzy all day?

There is a difference between casting dirt on a player and scumhunting.

Posts that I interpreted as passiveness:

With all due respect. Not once did I accuse you of being scum, nor claim that what I was typing was some sort of scum tell, in fact I don't think I was even being aggressive.

How ever I can see how you can read it as aggressive. I generally prefer to use colloquialism rather than formal writing, it's more 'me'. For example, when I said pick a fight, to me I don't think anything aggressive or 'asshole like' about it because I am a boxer and I live with that kind of thing everyday. Sorry for the whole aggressive tempo misunderstanding.

If you had waited a little bit longer before posting there you would've found out that I in fact didn't warrant much suspicion on you nor Trebis, which is what I was going to say when I was going to type up my proper response to erg0.

I was merely trying to give the game a push and I wasn't aware that you had been picked on Mizzy, which is why I chose you to spur on.

I do disagree about most of the game being one liners, though.

Oh, and if you are 6 months pregnant you should be resting more rather then playing this silly game. Mood swings are bad for all of us (: Congrads btw.

As for erg0.

I believe Mizzy has already answered it for me, it is very hard to play a game when only a few are involved in an argument. I myself find it difficult to involve myself in a game where a few people are arguing amongst themselves, so I often appear to be lurking.

I believe Trebis was just trying to involve himself in the game as best he could due to him not really being part of any discussions. I would've hit Trebis on it like I did with Mizzy but Trebis was already under fire so I decided I'd see if I could try to get Mizzy posting productively.

Notice that even though he is getting replaced, ever since he has been under fire and part of the discussion he has been posting productively?

So to conclude I believe that both Trebis and Mizzy (and myself and most others) are just having trouble including themselves in the game rather than purposely posting all talk and no action.

This is the scummiest post you have made this game, IMO. That bolded portion? I call BS. You may not have said it in those words, but you were definitely painting Mizzy as scum before this post. As such, as far as I can tell you were attacking Mizzy yet explicitly deny that you think she (or Trebis for that matter) is scum... the logical implication is that you were throwing dirt on her to make her look scummy and then backing off when she called you on it. That, shaka, is a HUGE scumtell in my book, especially as it means that you were claiming that you were NOT scumhunting when pressuring Mizzy (and I'm having trouble buying your interactions with any other player as scumhunting).

I did not back off because she called me on it. Erg0 asked me a question which Mizzy had effectively answered for me. I planned to express the fact that I didn't find the two scummy later that night (that post was made before gym, I posted again after gym, if I recall correctly) but when I got home I found Mizzy had expressed the same opinion as I was going to on the matter.

To prove my point not once did I accuse her of being scum, nor did I vote her nor did I as much as FoS her. If you read some of my other games you would know that if I think I have something on someone my vote will be on them until I am satisfied that they are not scum. Yet, I never expressed any interest in voting her at all.

The other post that caught my eye:

shaka, you still haven't told me who you think is actually scummy and why you haven't done more to try to get them lynched.

If I had found someone scummy I would be pushing their lynch very hard right now. The reason why I was to settle on Joubert or Killa is because I don't find anyone scummy and in a deadline situation I'd rather go for broke rather then no lynch.

I was really hoping on a reread in day 2 to try and weed out some new information based on the night kills and new information that comes out of the night.

Joubert that post you just made is making this a whole lot harder for me, but with the deadline coming to a close I don't have much choice.

vote: Joubert

So, you still didn't find anyone scummy at the end of D1 despite plenty of attacks on Mizzy and killa and ample time to, you know, pressure suspicious-looking people and try to out the scum? Instead of actually pressuring more people in an attempt to draw out scum, you continue attacking Mizzy (after claiming that you didn't think Mizzy was scum, implying that you thought Mizzy was town) and Joubert (a possible target of convenience in hindsight, and you claimed that you thought HE was town as well), then hop onto the Joubert wagon late.

How am I meant to pressure people who look suspicious if I don't think any one looks suspicious? Also, I only started attacking Mizzy in D2 so I don't know where that came from. Also, I never claimed I thought Joubert was town. I just said I'd rather have him out whether he was scum or not because he was very distracting and you can't deny that. As I stated previously I have done this in an other game, in which I was also town.

Furthermore, despite the fact that hopping onto the largest wagon in order to guarantee a lynch is a perfectly pro-town reason for voting, you haul out an argument for your Joubert vote that I consider utter BS. Voting him because you think he'll be useless? That's horrible logic - scumlogic, I daresay.

The final piece of evidence that you're being passive? You've only gone after three players in the entirety of the game, and you backed off of ALL of them... then CONTINUED to attack two of them despite claiming that you thought they were town.

Joubert I never claimed to think was town, Mizzy I only attacked D2, after legitimately scummy things. All you are doing here is attacking me for having a change of mind, a whole day later.

I've taken time of gym to start looking for a job, which I've finished doing and seeing as I still have the time of gym I decided to spend it catching up on all my games, so expect a few more posts after this one.

[shaka!!]

Reading shaka in isolation, he might not be a bad bet after all. He does spend a lot of time saying "scum do this, scum do that", which fits with what Tar says above. I also found the following post from day 2 interesting:

And as for admitting your post was WIFOM and such, doesn't really matter if you ask my opinion. That's like doing something scummy and then at the end of the post admitting it is a scummy thing to do. It doesn't clear your name.

The last part of that paragraph pretty much reflects what shaka did with his hammer on day 1:

Because I can't see Killa being anything but distracting to us in day 2, same goes with Joubert. I've lynched people for the same reason before if you think that saying this is scummy and you'd like a meta. I'll link you if I have to.

Protip: raising a meta defence unprompted makes it look like you're a little

too

concerned about not appearing at all scummy.

His apparent inability to find anyone at all scummy for pretty much the entire game is a worry as well.

I kind of need to get my head back into this game, so I'll withold a vote until I've done some more re-reading. I just died in a large game so that's freed me up a bit.

Hmm, I see how this can appear as hypocritical, but I didn't admit it was a scummy thing to do. And I still don't think it is a scummy thing to do. But I could see how it would be seen as scummy so I offered a meta in which I've done the same because I

knew

people were going to call me out on it.

[shaka!!]

I'm catching up slowly. I've been rereading from a little before the end of Day 1 and based on what I've read, I'd be willing to vote shaka at deadline, essentially for a lack of scum-hunting, and I tend to agree with Tarhalindur's IIoA point if not as a "tell" then as a sign of a player who's trying to appear to be scum-hunting without actually doing it, which, as I reread him, seem a reasonable assumption.

Yes I try to look like I am scum hunting by telling people how the game works because they are almost the exact same thing and no body will realize what I am doing.

/sarcasm.

I know I promised a catch up with this game but I ended up spending the time on my 4 other games, hopefully today after my cricket game and after I've done some work on a couple of animations that are due in soon I can catch up

this

game.

[shaka!!]

Do you all understand now why I said killa or Joubert for the day 1 lynch?

[shaka!!]

Do you all understand now why I said killa or Joubert for the day 1 lynch?

As much as Killa makes me want to rip my hair out by the fist-full, I can't condone lynching him or even thinking of it now that I think he's noobtown. We were wrong about Joub, too. Well, at least I was, I thought he was scummy.

I'm not calling to lynch him I'm just using his actions to explain my day 1 line of thought.

[shaka!!]

I've just been informed that I may be fighting on Saturday, which puts major stress on me. Having 2 days to prepare for a fight means that I can't be distracted by anything, so all those catch ups I promised are going to have to wait a little longer.

Sorry guys.

[shaka!!]

Seems like a missed quite a bit lol.

I've actually just got re interested in the game so I'll do a reread and hopefully be a lot more active this day.

[shaka!!]

Firstly, boo for Easter Camp. I was planning on using that time to catch up on my games ):

Secondly, Sierra:

Rereading day 1 gave very little new information. Reading day 2 knowing TJM was godfather was pretty interesting.

The day starts with erg0 and mizzy voting shaka. TJM responds with a post where he seems to be defending shaka somewhat:

Sucks that we lost the doctor so early...

Anyone have reasons for suspecting shaka other than Glork dying?

I should note killa seven made a similar post.

Later, TJM votes OGML:

First, let us take a look at a late D1 post, courtesy of OGML.

Observe how OGML is trying to have it both ways. He is explicitly supporting the Joubert lynch ("happy that Joubert is being lynched"), but he finds shaka!! scummy for... get this...

supporting the Joubert lynch

. That's a direct contradiction, and that's seriously scummy.

I agree with this part wholeheartedly, largest point against OGML

Vote: OhGodMyLife

I'm not sure whether TJM is the kind of player who likes to bus his fellow scum players, but if I'm correct in thinking shaka is one of his scum buddies, he doesn't appear to be.

I don't think shaka even ever mentioned TJM in any of his posts. Given that and the post where TJM seemed protective of him, I'm fairly convinced he's scum.

Vote shaka!!

I now have more trust in Retroducts, Erg0 and killa seven, because they pulled the wagon on the TJM lynch. That leaves either Khel or Tar as shaka's scum buddy - assuming there were 3 mafia to start with.

Again, there is not much I can do about this. If you haven't noticed those are all TJM interacting with me (if you ask me calling it interaction is a real reach).

As for Khelvaster, I don't doubt his claim. But consider that we decide to let him stay with us. If we end up mislynching today, that means we are at lylo tomorrow (2 scum, 3 town, 1 survivor) in which case Khelvaster can easily cost us the game and win it for himself and scum.

I will put down the hammer if no one objects.

[shaka!!]

Again, there is not much I can do about this. If you haven't noticed those are all TJM interacting with me (if you ask me calling it interaction is a real reach).

You could tell me why in all of day 2 you never even mentioned TJM. You were always focussing on other people even when TJM was under pressure, which makes me feel like you wanted to redirect the town's attention elsewhere.

To be fair I wasn't even aware of TJM's situation. I had the pre-fight training in which I ignored all my games, I had the post-fight recovery in which I ignored all my games. By the time I had recovered I had lost all interest in the game and tbh I wasn't even checking it when I had time to play.

I hadn't done anything earlier in the game because, well, he didn't do anything. He pretty much gave this game zero content and had slipped completely under my radar.

[shaka!!]

Um.. That self vote is really odd. Are you admitting to being scum or are you the survivor?

[shaka!!]

In which case,

vote: Khelvaster

[shaka!!]

Do do do.

[shaka!!]

I find the role of a jester very unlikely in a mini

normal.

Because well, it's not a

normal

role.

No unvote from me.

[shaka!!]

unvote:

[shaka!!]

This shouldn't come as a surprise.

vote: Khelvaster

[shaka!!]

Looks like we had a busy night last night.

I'm very curious as to Khelvasters card flip. Does a survivor come up as 'townie'??

Also, correct me if I am wrong but it seems we are not in lylo anymore thanks to the vig kill.

On that note, what do you think the chances are that we have a cautious SK instead of the one shot/cautious vig?

[shaka!!]

I'm not going to be able to give an order until I've got a reread done on this game.

I'll hopefully post my thoughts on both my games this weekend seeing cricket season is over.

[shaka!!]

Tar, if you are the vig, you definitely must not use your kill tonight. If you kill wrong, game over.

[shaka!!]

I've just reread Sierra and I'm not quite sure why he is at -1. In fact I thought he was rather pro town.

I also fail to see any real case posed against him, could someone explain to me why he is at -1? So far the two votes on him have been with out any real explanation other than they find him scummy.

[shaka!!]

tar is claimed vig, and IMO Jive's actions days one and two make killa seven unlikely scum.

This is my line of thought to. Although I'm not fully convinced Sierra is scum, I'm not fully convinced you are scum either. But one of you must be.

If we mislynch today that means lylo tomorrow. I'm pretty confident about our chances of winning this game.

I'll give Sierra his request and wait for him to post his suspicions before I hammer.

[shaka!!]

If sierra isn't scum, its k7 and not me. See the ridiculous play by TJM in latching onto tar's case against me and not letting go until he was dead.

Ugh..

KILLA SEVEN: Helped bring case around against TJM, pushing wagon into lynching territory. Killa's predecessor is also one of the only people Jive ever voted for. In the context they happened, neither of these look like bussing to me.

Do I have to elaborate or can everyone see my point here?

[shaka!!]

That sounds an aweful lot like scum stalling to me.

[shaka!!]

No, you are stalling. I wanted to discuss something and you decided that it would be a moot point for tomorrow. Which shows us to things, you think there is going to be a tomorrow and that you want to avoid discussing it today.

Secondly, I never said I thought you were scum.

[shaka!!]

First off, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK ):

It seems I may never be able to redeem my terrible track record ):

Jesus balls, guys.

When I go batshit fucking loco on somebody D1 and later turn out to be protown, TAKE A FUCKING LOOK AT THAT PLAYER AND SEE WHY I WAS ALL OVER THEM LIKE STINK ON SHIT.

Shaka should have died D1, and then there would have been no issues whatsoever.

Haha. I knew I had to get rid of you 'cause I wouldn't have been able to compete with you day 2. Fortunately my scum buddies agreed. I just didn't tell them why I really wanted you out.

Oh well. There were some interesting moments in that game.

I

was

pretty cautious of Glork being protected night 1, so yes, we were very lucky that he was the Doc. I wanted to target Khelvaster, mostly because me coming up scum would have made him harder to lynch later in the game. Turns out this wasn't so much of a problem.

Reflecting on the TJM bus, I'm really meh about it. Half of that was based on frustration that he wasn't really doing anything. I actually was trying to get him to contribute more, only because it was getting harder for me to pretend to ignore him, which could have been a bigger issue if either of us were eventually killed.

To be honest, the reason why I wasn't on the TJM bus is because I wasn't there for it lol. I knew we were going to have to do something about TJM eventually.

Also, all of the lynches happened while I was away funny enough.

Thanks for the great game guys!

[shaka!!]

Death_omen, I quite enjoyed reading the narration, I like how you personalized it to the scum.