Mini 545 - The Final Stand Mafia - Dramatic Finish!

[Glork]

Is the fact that he asked to replace out of the game some time ago a factor for or against him, or does it not weigh into your decision?

[Mizzy]

Is the fact that he asked to replace out of the game some time ago a factor for or against him, or does it not weigh into your decision?

You have to admit, the TIMING of his asking to be replaces was a little suspicious...though he hasn't posted on the site at all since the 8th.

[Erg0]

It's not really a factor at all, as the reasons for it could go either way - caught scum or disinterested town would explain it equally well. Trying to meta replacements generally doesn't work in my experience.

[Trebis]

Well, I feel obligated to keep playing until my replacement is here, so I guess I'll keep responding for as long as I am needed.

Before you go, could you respond to my entire post instead of just Strawmanning the "gut" part?

You can't be sure of anything, so I was just stating the other side of my opinion.

I just re-read this entire thread, and... generally, it was more annoying than anything.

My sentiments exactly.

Stated succinctly: all talk, no action.

I realize I haven't been much use in the game, hence asking for replacement so I'm not "that guy" that makes the game suck.

It's not really a factor at all, as the reasons for it could go either way -

caught scum or disinterested town would explain it equally well.

Trying to meta replacements generally doesn't work in my experience.

First of all I didn't feel a huge amount of pressure on me when I asked to be replaced. The game was still WAY early in day 1, with only 5 pages, and there was much much more to be said before the day was out, so my head was not on the chopping block at all. I think I had maybe 2 votes, and a FoS?

While I would generally agree that trying to meta the replacement isn't worthwhile, the fact that I am staying around responding to all the arguments against me points to disinterested town. If I was scum and felt completely caught, do you really think I would ask for a replacement and then stick around and STILL try to defend myself, even though I know I'll be out of the game soon and it won't matter.

If I was the kind of person to abandon a game in which I got "caught" as scum, would I also be the kind of person that defends himself for as long as possible so his replacement has a chance? Call it WIFOM if you like, but I am town.

[Erg0]

Well, I suppose there's such a thing as disinterested scum too. This is exactly why I never meta replacements.

[Khelvaster]

Erg0, could you please give me some quotes of his to support "all talk and no action?"

[Erg0]

No need, just read his posts in isolation and you'll see what I mean. After his first vote he makes several two-line posts on metas and game theory, then writes off your argument with RetroDucts as townie vs townie, unvotes and asks to be replaced. "Information in place of analysis" sums him up pretty well, I think.

[Glork]

No, I'd rather you lay it out explicitly.

[Erg0]

Fair enough, I suppose I have some ground to make up given my predecessor's inactivity.

Here are Trebis' posts from after his random vote through to his replacement request:

I don't think I want to random vote this time. I actually think Tarhalindur could be onto something.

Vote: Khelvaster

I wouldn't try to deduce much from this. I've played with Khelvaster before, and he has a tendency to do things like that.

Meta on Khelvaster, but no particular opinion beyond "no read".

You gotta admit, a wagon now is a bit...well...fast?

It is a wagon, but not a very strong one. It still takes 7 to lynch. Also, sometimes people will create a weak wagon just to get conversation started.

Also: Someone's going to say this is a scummy question to ask, but are we supposed to know how many mafia there are? What about other roles? By not mentioning them should I assume they don't exist, or is it just a mystery?

Kind of defends the wagon, but really just an explanation of a generally accepted game principle.

I don't see the rolefishing either. Explain please.

Piggybacking on someone else's question.

Unvote since random votes don't seem to be doing much now.

Subtle attempt at looking more pro-town? No way to prove it one way or the other, but I'm just throwing that out there.

Again, no particular opinion offered.

I seriously doubt the scum would try to get a claim out of a townie THIS early in the game.

Pretty obvious point.

I'm bored with this - it continues in this vein until the unvote:

I'm gonna agree too with Mizzy. This whole encounter between Khelvaster and Retro Ducts just confused me and turned me off to the game more than anything. I don't know what it was about it, but I had a hard time following everyones arguments without my eyes glazing over.

All-in-all right now I feel like it's a case of two townies arguing with eachother, which is never a good precedent to set in a game. I've seen too many games where Day 1 gets stuck between two townies duking it out, and at the end of the day the only logical conclusion is to lynch one of the two of them. And of course in the end, you learn they're both town.

Still happy with my Trebis-vote.

I had assumed it was still mostly random, but if you're happy with it, care to explain why exactly?

Also,

Unvote

whoever I was voting for.

So basically he sees no conclusions to be drawn from the first five pages other than that everyone is town. He hasn't actually pushed anyone or really made any effort to find scum, despite the fact that he is apparently gaining nothing from the discussion that's been occurring. Essentially, he's sitting back and keeping his options open while waiting for someone else to start a wagon that he can jump on.

[Erg0]

Realised that I should have unvoted when I came in, so just in case:

Unvote, Vote: Trebis

[Glork]

Unvote

...I must admit, I have gotten cold feet regarding a Trebis lynch. I will re-read the game and ask lots of people tons of questions tomorrow. Hopefully that will jump-start more discussion.

[Erg0]

What was the purpose of questioning me on my case on Trebis? What (if anything) did you glean from my responses?

[Glork]

I wanted to see the meat behind your argument before I decided whether I felt you were an opportunistic scumbag. At this time, I am disinclined to believe that to be the case, but I'm feeling very wishy-washy right now.

[Khelvaster]

I feel erg0 is town, Glork. He is showing all the hallmarks of a somewhat lazy town, not a scum trying to cover up lack of evidence.

[TheJiveMachine]

I feel erg0 is town, Glork. He is showing all the hallmarks of a somewhat lazy town, not a scum trying to cover up lack of evidence.

Elaborate, with examples, please

[Erg0]

I feel erg0 is town, Glork. He is showing all the hallmarks of a somewhat lazy town, not a scum trying to cover up lack of evidence.

Pfft.

[RetroDucts]

Right now, I'd put Khel, Mizzy, and RD in my tentative "protown" list. No real good scum candidate has stood out yet.

Besides Trebis, who else would have you called a not so good scum candidate?

I just re-read this entire thread, and... generally, it was more annoying than anything.

My sentiments exactly.

This is more a general question to anyone who feels the same way - what makes it annoying? What does that mean? Does that just mean that there's too much to read? There are no leads?


Regarding Trebis, while my first reaction to him sticking around is to think it's pro-town, the WIFOM makes me cautious. That is, I'm feeling inclined to see it as a null-tell for now, though I do see it in his favour more than not.

Yes, but making mountains out of molehills just makes it easier for the scum to make us turn on each other...

What do you think have been the molehills this game? What do you think are more sensible leads?


After rereading, I think these players need to contribute a lot more to this game: OhGodMyLife, yeahthatguy224, Sangy (waiting on promised content), Tahalindur, TheJiveMachine.

[Mizzy]

What do you think have been the molehills this game? What do you think are more sensible leads?

The whole Khev/roleclaim thing was definitely blown out of proportion, and I honestly think we have too little participation to get many good leads at the moment. Glork was coming off as scummy at first but now I think that's just his scumhunting techniques.

[shaka!!]

After rereading I've noticed something I am not quite fond of.

Mizzy.

You seem to posting very actively, but only for the sake of appearing active. The vast majority of your posts have little content and are just two liners with a neutral opinion. Neither attacking or defending, it seems as if she is trying to buddy up to everyone but not picking a fight with anyone.

[shaka!!]

*by* not picking a fight with anyone

[Mizzy]

You seem to posting very actively, but only for the sake of appearing active. The vast majority of your posts have little content and are just two liners with a neutral opinion. Neither attacking or defending, it seems as if she is trying to buddy up to everyone but not picking a fight with anyone.

What good is actively picking a fight with someone? No one has attacked me, so I have had no reason to defend, I answer questions when asked and try not to post drivel, and pay attention to the game. But no, I'm not going to cause a giant distraction and make an ass out of myself...thanks for the concern, though.

Perhaps, before you whine about someone who does post, you should consider being more active, yourself.

[shaka!!]

You seem to posting very actively, but only for the sake of appearing active. The vast majority of your posts have little content and are just two liners with a neutral opinion. Neither attacking or defending, it seems as if she is trying to buddy up to everyone but not picking a fight with anyone.

What good is actively picking a fight with someone? No one has attacked me, so I have had no reason to defend, I answer questions when asked and try not to post drivel, and pay attention to the game. But no, I'm not going to cause a giant distraction and make an ass out of myself...thanks for the concern, though.

Perhaps, before you whine about someone who does post, you should consider being more active, yourself.

A dear friend of mine is leaving for America on Friday and another dear friend of mine has been kicked out his house and is staying at mine. I post when I can. How ever I was never complaining about you being active, I was complaining about you being active and doing nothing

productive

.

As for not actively picking a fight with someone, maybe I worded it wrong, but I believe the correct term is scum hunting. Whilst the majority of us here are trying to catch scum you are sitting on the sidelines singing Bob Marley. People are discussing issues and actually talking, the new posts they make on the matter at hand are where we will get our future discussions from. Trying to shut us up now to look for other scum tells will only be half as productive as if we continued to current conversations at hand and looked for scum tells at the same time. There is no rule saying you can only focus on one thing at time, but for some reason everyone one of your posts seem to read to me "I don't think this case is going anywhere lets look elsewhere".

[Erg0]

I'm seeing a lot of similarities between Mizzy and Trebis so far. Their defences seem to be quite different, however - Mizzy is claiming playstyle and Trebis is claiming disinterest. That was a very strident response from Mizzy, probably over-defensive in my view since nobody seems to care much about my similar case on Trebis.

shaka!!, do you agree on the similarities between the two? How do you feel about Mizzy's response compared to Trebis'?

[shaka!!]

I do. I was thinking about it when I made the post. How ever I will review it later tonight. Busy busy busy.

[Mizzy]

A dear friend of mine is leaving for America on Friday and another dear friend of mine has been kicked out his house and is staying at mine. I post when I can. How ever I was never complaining about you being active, I was complaining about you being active and doing nothing

productive

.

We ALL have RL stuff going on...I, myself, am 6 months pregnant and sick as hell and require 12-14 hours a sleep a night on top of working full time and dealing with many other things. But I still read and post.

As for posting anything productive, I think it's a matter of opinion on that one. You haven't exactly posted anything groundbreaking, yourself.

As for not actively picking a fight with someone, maybe I worded it wrong, but I believe the correct term is scum hunting.

Last I knew, being an asshole and pulling unwarranted attention onto yourself was extremely anti-town and isn't actually scum hunting. What you're doing, aka, pulling attention onto us both, is probably going to cause a giant distraction (whew, history might repeat itself here, guys) and do more harm than good.

People are discussing issues and actually talking, the new posts they make on the matter at hand are where we will get our future discussions from.

People are making tiny posts back and forth like it's an IM client in here. I don't really see that as discussing issues...I see that as chatting quietly over a cup of tea. I will ask questions when I have them, and answer questions as they come. I'm not going to finger someone I don't suspect, and I'm not going to blow stuff out of proportion just to make a point of it.

I mean, you do realize that a good portion of the game has been 1-2 liner posts that are not made from just me, right? Why don't you go bark up their trees?

There is no rule saying you can only focus on one thing at time, but for some reason everyone one of your posts seem to read to me "I don't think this case is going anywhere lets look elsewhere".

Actually, I have made only ONE like that. #104.

Trebis also bitched about my small posts, but I know that people bitch about large posts, content-less posts, helpful posts, meaningful posts, empty posts, funny posts, stupid posts...any post anyone makes, someone can and probably will bitch. So no, I haven't jumped into the pit of obvious bullshit each time a semantics war breaks out and I'm not going to.

I don't have solid opinions or any solid proof as of yet on who is scum and who isn't, and I'm absolutely not going to tarnish the game by tossing out half-thought-out ideas and suspicions when everyone else is already doing that and not really scumhunting.

So while I can see where you are coming from, I'm also going to - politely - ask you to sit down and rethink your entire beef with me. Sparse posts does not make someone scummy, and neither does refusing to wagon or "pick fights" for the hell of it. I'm not going to fight with you and if you have any

real

case against me, then I suggest you spit it out or move on.

I would also like to mention that the forums have been down 90% of the time when I try and post, so all I can manage out most times is a couple sentences. I don't have the time after work to post books and refresh pages until the forums come back up to post them.