Mini 533: Something wicked this way comes! Game over!

[OhGodMyLife]

/confirms!

[OhGodMyLife]

I think we've got to wait for Qman to give the official go ahead. Welcome aboard though!

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote: Petunho

because its fun to pick on the new kid.

[OhGodMyLife]

Unvote: Petunho

Vote: Disciple Slayer

Don't like the OMGUS vote you just placed at all.

Sableheart's first vote was iffy, but your attack on him for it was rushed and the logic was very tenuous.

[OhGodMyLife]

Mod, as of Post 39 my vote should be on Disciple Slayer

I'm still happy with my vote, DS is being way too defensive and zeek has been consistently punching holes in his logic. And my reasons for voting in my last post still stand.

Everyone else needs to show up and take part in this discussion though.

Mod Edit: Fixed

[OhGodMyLife]

Lowell, whats with your vote on zeek? Was it just random? You gave no explanation at all.

[OhGodMyLife]

Disciple Slayer, if you think what you've got to say is so important, don't give us this BS about waiting til you're at L-1, tell us you're opinion now. If its so earth-shaking, maybe it'll actually change our minds. Otherwise, you still look like scum.

[OhGodMyLife]

The role of jester seems like a long shot, but the way he's been egging us on to put him at L-1 does make me worry that it could be a possibility. So I'll

Unvote: Disciple Slayer

...for now.

It seems like only half of the people in this game have been involved in real discussion so far, and that needs to change. Speak up everybody!

[OhGodMyLife]

Soupfly, while I don't think what you're doing is a good indication of your alignment, in no way is it helpful. Give us something beyond just votes.

Whether there are vanilla townies or not, Zeek is right that the early roleclaim is very suspect. I think we should back off DS and take a look at the other noise that is being drowned out by his erratic actions. Zeek's suggestion that DS be vigged is probably a good one, though, because its becoming pretty clear that he's not pro-town.

[OhGodMyLife]

Groan. When was the last time an argument like that convinced anyone of anything? Jeez.

Vote: Disciple Slayer

You may have said all you want to say, but we haven't heard anything we want to hear. If it takes votes to get something out of you, so be it.

[OhGodMyLife]

OK, zeek's miller claim is a bit odd, but to me it seems that if scum were going to claim miller they'd wait until after they thought the cop had gotten a guilty investigation, not on day one, so I'm inclined to think he really was trying to help the cop avoid a meaningless investigation.

Lowell, I don't think you got a very good read on what was going on with a lot of people on day one. MS and others have already pointed out many errors in your analysis. You seem to write me off as cautious or inexperienced scum based on gross misrepresentations and by supporting those who previously accused me without any real explanations themselves.

Soupfly's characterization of the lynch yesterday as being entirely zeek's fault is just not true. It seems as though he was trying to bait zeek into laying the hammer so he could then blame him for it, although zeek very clearly stated that he would hammer as soon as the opportunity presented itself. Yes, it might have been rushed and he did take it upon himself to decide DS was a self-lynching jester, but you very clearly knew what would happen when you put the L-1 vote, and thats as good as dropping that hammer yourself. This in itself is scummy, but the fact that you're trying to use it against zeek is even moreso. You set it up in laying the vote, likely knowing exactly what the outcome would be.

Vote: Soupfly

for the aforementioned, and his refusal throughout day one to justify his actions.

[OhGodMyLife]

If I start saying "I'm going to hammer as soon as possible if Player X gets to L-1," can I then pass the buck to the guy who voted L-1 every time?

Not every time certainly, but when the guy who places the L-1 vote says stuff like "welllllll if he comes up town...." ominously and basically eggs him on further into placing the hammer I think you can.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'd like to hear more from both lowell and soupfly, personally.

ditto

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm here, sorry for the inactivity I haven't had much time because of the holidays to actually do any analysis.

[OhGodMyLife]

It doesn't hurt him to claim miller if he's scum, but I don't think he would do so without any provocation at all unless he were really pro-town, trying to save the cop a useless investigation/need to claim.

[OhGodMyLife]

Unvote, Vote Geraintm

I think Michel just gave you a good drubbing that pretty much indicates both your guilt and zeek's innocence. I've been all but sure this whole time that zeek was telling the truth based on arguments already made by myself and several others, but this is a new selling point. The way you've been harping on the one popular target all game is a great find.

I also find lowell highly suspicious, and have since that list post early day two which he's pretty much ignored since then. I'd be perfectly willing to switch my vote to him should the town prefer his lynch today.

Soupfly, I'm still not sold on you. You've been pretty iffy the whole time, and that same game summary list by lowell was pretty strongly supportive of play by you that I personally thought was really bad. That's a connection between the two of you I'm not gonna forget if one or the other comes up in the red post mortem. Also, you've been almost totally focused today on zeek as well, but you've at least gone to the trouble of making an argument, so you get points for that. We've gotten to the point where there are much better lynches for today.

[OhGodMyLife]

4)

FOS OGML

. Twice he has readily followed MSable's advice. Both in regards to the zeek/soupfly debate, and in regard to the case on geraintm. I can't see BOTH OGML and Sable being scum (there'd be more distancing), but I think that if Sable is town, OGML is trying to piggy-back on the most vocal town player and stay on the good side of things. If Sable is scum, I think OGML is just being lazy and caught up in a vocal scum speaking for the town.

Or if we're both town, you've just set yourself up to try and mislynch one of us after the other's untimely death. Its true that my vote was based largely on MS's argument, but you conveniently ignored yet again the problems I raised with your first list, and the suspicions myself and others have had of you. There seems to be a lot of important discussion that you've omitted from your summary. So there you have it, my very own reasons to vote for someone.

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

Soupfly, hope your recovery goes more smoothly than the ride on your snowboard must have.

[OhGodMyLife]

Or, if you're both town, I'm just wrong. Not this time, though, I don't think.

vote OGML

I'm not surprised you ignored the idea of you being scum, but I am a little surprised you ignored the idea of Sable being scum. Just, generally, not a big fan of your reaction here.

That just stinks of pure OMGUS. And, generally, I'm still not a big fan of you ignoring all of the problems raised by multiple people throughout this day with your post #142. Just because you disappeared for more than two weeks doesn't mean we forgot how scummy you were acting before. Could you take the time to read up on what happened during the four pages of discussion for which all you could do was drop by and confirm you'd been prodded?

I sort of both agree with lowell's point and OGML's counter. I also got bad following-the-crowd vibes from OGML after his post, but it seems lowell is also setting up a false dichotomy between michael and OGML, which I don't particularly agree with. Also, he didn't really respond to any of the attacks on him, just added more attacks of his own. So I remain unconvinced.

Lowell's attack on me was based on the fact that twice this game, I have agreed with a conclusion reached by MS after he has posted thorough analysis. This is the attack to which I responded. Lowell also conveniently ignored everything else I've done this game, which is in character for him since he's also been pretty good at ignoring repeated requests for him to explain his own previous actions.

[OhGodMyLife]

Lowell, please refer to my last two posts and every other unanswered question directed at you from this entire thread. Then come back and FOS another lurker.

[OhGodMyLife]

There is something mmore to the quickben argument than i saw initially, but essentially it breaks down to lurking, and i see lowell as being more guilty of that, in the sense that he continues to actively ignore arguments. So my vote will stay for now, but we'll see what quickben has to say.

QFT

[OhGodMyLife]

vote Ohgodmy life

to me he appears to jump on band waggons very easily. his voting for me was such, and he never explained at what point i didn't become his chief suspect for lynching, he didn't reply to my message aimed at him. his switch to lowell was too quick and to me just felt like he knew nothing was building on me and so he went for the next person he could go for.OGML just seems on every bandwagon

You were never a bandwagon, I was the only one voting you. You've made it pretty clear that this is an OMGUS vote. Are you attacking me because I'm now after your scumbuddy lowell?

I get pro-town vibes from Mike and TSPN. Lowell could go either way.

What about Lowell makes you think he could go either way?

Lowell's actions has been also suspicious and the ignorance of other peoples questions disturbs me. He has to answer questions asked from him. Townie hasn't anything to hide so I really suspect his actions on this matter.

You're right here, but you vote for QuickBen instead. Lowell's lurking is much, much more insidious. QB had been pretty much ignoring the entire game, while Lowell has been actively ignoring every question and comment directed at him, while commenting liberally on actions taken by others and misrepresenting several people's actions in his summary posts.

FoS

everyone voting for QuickBen, especially Petunho

[OhGodMyLife]

Skruffs, those posts gave me a lot to ponder, and I'll need some time to really digest it all. As for this:

Question: Why is Lowell being targetted for being lurky on day one.. on day two? Wouldn't it have been better to have looked at him day one instead of madly rushing to lynch anyone?

I'm not targeting him for lurking on day one at all. He first caught my attention when he made his post early day two summarizing what went on day one and, in my opinion, seriously misrepresenting a lot of what went on and spinning several people in a poor light that was not warranted. When he was confronted on this subject, he melted away and let the game proceed until it was sufficiently behind us before reappearing and ignoring all questions and comments that had been directed at him. This raised yet more eyebrows and brought on a second round of questions that he yet again ignored, instead making another summary with striking omissions this time, and firing off accusations rather than answering for his previous actions. Since this, he has made a few more posts, but still blatantly ignored multiple calls to say anything about the concerns and queries that have been raised.

@TSpN, what in particular makes me your third suspect? Especially considering the "sizable gap" between your top three and the rest of the pack.

[OhGodMyLife]

Lowell, read the thread instead of trying to make other people do your work for you.

[OhGodMyLife]

I live in New Orleans and it is Mardi Gras weekend, so I will be very very drunk for most of the next five days. I'll be checking the site occasionally but won't be able to really participate until Wednesday, just to give everyone a heads up.

Mod Added
VOTE COUNT THE EIGHTH OF DAY TWO!

ZeekLTK

- 1 (Quickben)

Lowell

- 2 (TheSweatPantsNinja, OhGodMyLife)

OhGodMyLife

- 2 (Lowell, geraintim)

QuickBen

- 2 (Petunho, soupfly)

Skruffs

- 2 (MichelSableHeart, ZeekLTK)

MichelSableHeart

- 1 (Skruffs)

Not Voting

- 0

6 will lynch.

[OhGodMyLife]

Y'all wrote an awful lot this weekend. I've got some serious catching up to do, but while I'm doing that I'm happy with my vote for lowell, he still seems extremely scummy, and belated responses to all the comments directed at him didn't change my opinion.

[OhGodMyLife]

The walls of text produced by some of you these past few days saying the same things over and over again are making my head hurt.

Of course that could also be the hangover from five straight days of drinking.

[OhGodMyLife]

Zeek, all of that last post has a big caveat, which is that if you're SCUM its just a bunch of hot air.

The argument of "MS would have voted for me if he was scum because I'm town" is full of holes. If both of you are scum, he wouldn't have voted for you, and would have defended you. If you are scum and he is town, he may very well just have bought your miller claim and therefore defended you.

I personally believe that the miller claim is highly plausible especially in the context of how/when it was made but you're still quickly losing points with me.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm trying to follow this convoluted debate but it feels more like a homework assignment than a game I play to unwind. Will do a real read of it after work/class tonight. In the meantime, Lowell is still extremely anti-town, I'm happy with my vote on him, and I'd like to QFT TSpN's sentiment of "can we lynch him

now

?"

[OhGodMyLife]

My vote is on lowell, and will remain there, because of his active lurking, wherein he blatantly ignores an avalanche of questions, comments and criticism directed at him while simply popping in to respond to prods or agree with people and vote without his own reasoning, and for posts 142 and 237, wherein he gives a rundown of everything that has happened so far with his colorful spin on things, including a healthy number of misrepresentations.

I don't think the whole "OMGUS" - "NO U!" war going on between zeek/michel and skruffs is getting us anywhere, it seems to have come to a stalemate. Skruffs has come out of it with the bigger bandwagon, but I disagree with lynching him. Good points have been made by both sides, but it seems to me that zeek's most popular subject is still that anyone who attacks him must be scum because he's a claimed pro-town role, and that he should be taken at his word for the same reason. Those of us out here who are pro-town know exactly as much as you claim to know, which is the roles of the dead and our own role. The fact that you can't get it through your head that making an argument based on your claim will not stand up under scrutiny because WE DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE TELLING THE TRUTH UNTIL YOU'RE DEAD is really starting to bug me. Miller is not a claim that will get countered in the majority of games, so in no way does being a claimed miller make you confirmed town. Hell, a lot of the time the miller isn't even told by the mod that he is a miller.

FoS: ZeekLTK

[OhGodMyLife]

TSpN suggest pressuring Lowell into participating. This means putting Lowell at L-2 or L-1 and hoping that he'll participate. The only reason that Lowell would participate in that case, though, is the threat of being lynched. If he knows that we won't lynch him anyway, why would being at L-2 be any different from being at L-6?

Not quite. I suggested

lynching

him if he didn't participate, and participation alone wouldn't be enough to make me want to not lynch him. He's been replaced, so this debate is somewhat academic, but I still believe that based on his body of work this game, lowell is the most scummy player out there. Shaka has a hole to dig himself out of.

This is a passage with with I heartily agree

[OhGodMyLife]

Zeek, stop trying to play the martyr. Yes you claimed a pro-town role, but why don't you understand that any player in the game aside from you and the scum (two groups which I'm really beginning to doubt are mutually exclusive) don't KNOW if you're telling the truth or not. Just because you said it doesn't mean we have to buy it! And the fact that its the only thing you keep going back to over and over again really makes it seem like you've backed into a corner as more and more people realize your argument is full of shit.

[OhGodMyLife]

The fact that > 3 people don't believe you anymore should indicate to you that its not scum trying to mislynch you, as you and your erstwhile partner michel have noted so many times that there are likely to be = 3 scum. What you are saying is not provable to any pro-town player until you are dead. The facts that you have provided are not certifiable facts for anyone but you. As shaka just said, you are spouting WIFOM, whether you mean to or not. Time to try a different approach.

[OhGodMyLife]

Why don't you answer the questions I posed in #506 instead of dismissing them as WIFOM?

Dismissing pro-town play as "WIFOM" is a scum tactic.

This post is WIFOM

[OhGodMyLife]

Currently having a hard time choosing between zeek and shaka/lowell. My suspicion of shaka is entirely based on his predecessor, but he had a very scummy predecessor. Zeek on the other hand is pretty much living in a fortress of WIFOM. The tide seems to have turned against a shlowell lynch, but I'm gonna stick with my vote for the time being while I think about things.

I've been wary of petunho previously for some of his posts, but this most recent one actually makes good points. Skruffs, your "deal" is a big appeal to emotion, which is a strong scum tell. I've also been thinking about possible scum team interactions, and the way in which Skruffs has been on the case of michel and zeek's arguments, but consistently insisting michel be the lynch, even though zeek is by far the scummier of the two, makes me think that the prospect of skruffs/zeek being on a team together and doing some serious distancing here today is not at all outlandish.

FoS: Skruffs

A scum list! For fun and profit:

ZeekLTk / Shaka!! (rep. Lowell)
Skruffs
Geraintm / Soupfly
Michel
Petunho
TSPN / Ting

[OhGodMyLife]

Skruffs, I'd like to know what you think makes michel a better lynch than zeek?

[OhGodMyLife]

ZEEK: STOP USING ARGUMENTS THAT RELY WHOLLY ON YOU BEING TOWN AND DO SOME ACTUAL SCUMHUNTING

[OhGodMyLife]

You are not going to find scum by finding players who are defending each other or whatnot as you seem to think you have with me and Michel.

This is so wrong I think I'm about to have a stroke.

[OhGodMyLife]

Hey guys I'm really sorry for my lack of posting here, I've been trying to do a reread but this is a really wordy game and the past week has been very busy. But, now it is spring break, so I have a couple of free days. I'll finish catching up and post thoughts soon.

I think the best deadline lynch if we're forced into it is zeek, testing the veracity of his miller claim will do wonders for discovering the intentions of other players. An awful lot of day two revolves around whether we should believe his WIFOM and what people are scummy for doing so or not doing so.

[OhGodMyLife]

The fact that both QuickBen and soupfly are voting for me should be proof enough that I'm a townie.

oh dear zeek. this is a horible thing to say. if i voted for you too, would that make you even more of a townie?

it is a shame that half your defence consists of nothing but badly thought out arguments like this. cause when you make points with some actual thought and reasoning behind them (like your look at Quickben), you make sense

I think this old post by geraintm pretty much still holds true for zeek. He's made good cases on others pretty consistently, but in trying to defend himself he only makes himself look MORE scummy.

Unvote, Vote: ZeekLTK

I'm sorry, but you are the best lynch for today. Rereading the early parts of day two, I really am still of the opinion that you're probably telling the truth about being the miller, like I was then, but we need your cardflip to be sure of anything, and I think that knowing your alignment will give us the best bead on where to go next. I see some clear cut groups of players who make sense either as your scumbuddies or who make sense as the scum if you really are town.

I'll check the thread again tonight to see what people think of this and elucidate on who else is looking scummy, but I'm going out of town tomorrow until saturday and won't have internet access, meaning today is my last day before the deadline here.

I'd like to hear from anyone who checks in today before I go who they think makes the most sense as zeek's scumpartners if he cardflips scum.

[OhGodMyLife]

Zeek, you really shouldn't be the one calling anybody a bad player. You have only ever managed to defend yourself with WIFOM and have been repeating the same lines that nobody is buying ad nauseum for months.

I specifically stated that I think you are the best lynch for the day not because I am 100% sold that you are scum but because I think knowing for sure if you are or are not gives the rest of us the best shot at winning for the town down the line.

Think about it. You are the flashpoint of this whole game, a lot of shit has gone on around what you've done and said. When your alignment is revealed, it will cast light on everything everyone else has done in relation to you, giving us 31 pages of goods to mine for who was manipulating you/being manipulated by you in any number of ways.

If you are town, you shouldn't really mind dying to prove yourself and in so doing help the rest of the town actually try to win this game. We haven't lost yet even though you seem to think so simply because a lot of people are attacking you. Your bitter insistence that you should not be lynched is quite simply not pro-town when in this case your lynch will help the town far more than any other lynch no matter what your alignment is. The only reason for you to continue flailing and struggling not to be lynched is if you are in fact mafia.

[OhGodMyLife]

Zeek, you are still so blinded by OMGUS rage that I'm not convinced you even read what I wrote.

I have two separate lists of possible scum:
1) Those who could be scum with you
2) Those who could be scum excoriating you

I said the same when I voted you. This was the basis of me wanting you lynched.

For a long time, I thought you were genuinely the miller. Now I'm pretty convinced that you're scum. I even said I thought you could still be town in the post where I voted you, a part you blatantly ignored in your OMGUS attack on me.

I also called for people to say who they thought could be your scumpartners, something nobody except Michel actually did. I'll extend the question again, and make it broader.

@Everybody:

- Who do you think make the most sense as scum if Zeek were to cardflip SCUM?
- Who do you think make the most sense as scum if Zeek were to cardflip TOWN?

[OhGodMyLife]

Skruffs, I disagree, I think zeektown would be almost as useful to us as zeekscum, except we'll have one more scum still to find.

As I said before, zeek has been THE flashpoint for all of day two, and its been a loooong day two. There's a lot to look at that will be very useful.

[OhGodMyLife]

This is so gay. Skruffs was on L-2 and then 2 of the people voting for him got replaced and changed their vote to me for no reason other than they're either scum or bad players and can't read the game correctly. If Lowell and Petunho were still in the game they would NOT be voting for me (and would be voting Skruffs). I'm going to be so pissed if Skruffs is scum and wins. Or if Shaka isn't scum because he basically cost the town the game by replacing in.

This is so childish. Hang on zeek I'm calling you a waaambulance. Then to make you feel better I'll get you a waaamburger and some french cries.

[OhGodMyLife]

If he's scum, we get rid of a scum. And if he's town, we get rid of a bad player. Win-win IMO.

I'm pretty sure this is the line of thought everybody has had about YOU.

[OhGodMyLife]

remember: beginning of Day 2 people who voted me: soupfly, TSPN, QuickBen, Skruffs

There's scum on there. Guaranteed.

THIS is what I'm talking about when I say that if zeek cardflips town we still have a lot to go on. He's actually right about this one.

[OhGodMyLife]

Also, just to repeat: Why did you change your mind and vote Zeek?

Please refer back to the post in which I vote for zeek, wherein I (get this) explain why I changed my mind and voted for him.

[OhGodMyLife]

We are talking ourselves around in circles here, and have been for a very long time. Nobody is changing their opinion at this point.

[OhGodMyLife]

and i still stand by the thought that i fully expect the person who gets lycnched at the end of today will be one of those who was in on the lynch yesterday. i don't see how that is me pushing for a mislynch

Its pushing specifically for a not-you lynch, which is scummy.

FoS: Geraintm

I strongly disagree. A 12 player game with my 3 man mafia team, and 1 SK? thats 1/3 of the town as scum at the start, and 2 anti-town kills per night. Speaking as a regular moderator of mini games, i'm relatively sure that we're only dealing with a 2-man mafia group, barring a whole host more protown power roles. 0.o

Better safe than sorry, though. I agree that three mafia and an SK would be a tall order for the town to overcome, but we don't know what other power roles there might be, and I'm not just going to assume there are less mafia and be flippant with my vote today. I think its a good idea to be cautious and play like we're in LyLo.

More coming later when I have time, as I said yesterday I have some ideas on who looks scummy with zeek cardflipping town, and no, geraintm, its not a foregone conclusion that zeek's wagon is what will have caught the scum.

[OhGodMyLife]

Please unvote.

[OhGodMyLife]

Gonna make time to do some backreading and present my list of suspects tomorrow.

[OhGodMyLife]

Soup is my top suspect as well.

I will at some point take the time to gather up some better evidence, but the early day two spat between him and zeek, and the end of day one L-1 trap setting for zeek, are the main reasons.

Ting's point about him preemptively defending himself is also important, and adds to the whole picture for me.

[OhGodMyLife]

A combination of my reread from before the zeek lynch which I should have made better notes on and gut are telling me that soup and two of battlemage/geraintm/ting are the scum.

If there are two scum and not three my feelings on soup still stand. Several people seem to think this is the likely setup, I hope they're right and we're not in LyLo.

vote: soupfly

[OhGodMyLife]

There are too many scummy people in this game and not everyone can be scum. To me he seems less likely than those I did list.

[OhGodMyLife]

Do you see what happened there?

[OhGodMyLife]

I hate having to lynch somebody who was so kind as to replace into this long and verbose game but the switch from soupfly to fae does not change my opinion.

[OhGodMyLife]

Fae's post has reminded me of just how scummy lowell was, which is to say, very very scummy and the person that I really wanted to lynch until he got replaced and the game dragged to a halt and I got fed up with zeek. Shaka did a good job of staying just under the radar and going with the flow, which also pushed it to the back of my mind (the extreme duration of this game also aids in forgetfullness), but he was pretty obviously doing nothing but pushing the zeek thing, and hard.

So,

unvote, vote: shaka!!

,
should have just kept with this yesterday.

Revised list of people I think are also probable scum: fae, bm, geraintm

[OhGodMyLife]

Shakascum would probably lower fae on my ranking, but I also see this as possible bussing/distancing.

[OhGodMyLife]

Everyone knew Zeek was as scummy as hell,

disagree with that.

So do I. Zeek was extremely frustrating, playing poorly himself and drawing out poor play from others (at the very least myself), but for much of day two I didn't think he was scummy. This is borne out if you look at my posts.

I'll respond to Geraintm soon, I'm off to bed now.

But for that 'solid case'. You're voting me because I dead sure someone was scum and ended up wrong. Yeah sure, this can be viewed as suspicious, but lynching over it?? Really?

I'd gladly give you a meta of me doing this, ;cause it is quite normal, for me at least.

Check out Mini #499. From day 1 to the end of the game I was sold on BM. I thought he was scum and I made sure everyone knew. I didn't let up and took it to my grave. I was town in that game as well.

I hate the "I have a scummy meta" defense, shaka, because its not a defense at all, rather its an excuse. You can't explain your play in any other way than pointing to a game where you played poorly? Not buying it.

[OhGodMyLife]

He mentions the reason for his switch as fae reminding him how scummy lowell was, but it just doesn't feel right.

I don't remember if you had replaced in or not yet when I was going on about lowell on day two, but if not go back and look at it. I seriously wanted to lynch him, but he was a hard sell because he was extremely lurky and others were very loud and noticeable. When he got replaced, I kept my vote on shaka for a while but eventually realized it wasn't going anywhere and fell in line with the rest of the town. I got complacent when I shouldn't have.

[OhGodMyLife]

Well, I'm happy with a shaka deadline lynch, which should be obvious from the fact that I'm voting for him. Is anybody else interested enough in this game to get in here in the next 24 hours and say, well, anything?

[OhGodMyLife]

The best explanation I see for shaka's actions today is that he thought gerain would be the easiest target for the day, and he's obviously shown that he's very good at tunnel visioning people so that would be why he hasn't changed his opinion whatsoever. When shaka cardflips scum, I'll most likely be dropping gerain off of my suspicion list based on that.

PS, high five geraintm for being the only other remaining non-replacement in this game.

[OhGodMyLife]

Geraintm easiest target? There were far easier targets to go for. A number of people had a town read on geraintm.

yet all he's managed to do today is scramble to defend himself and in no way help hunt scum. hmm...

[OhGodMyLife]

but I can't remember anyone being suspicious of him day 2 at all.

I know it was a long time ago, but MSH's Post 224 and my immediate followup Post 225 were on day two.

[OhGodMyLife]

I haven't been AFK my friend, I've been around and noting how I am perfectly content lynching you.

[OhGodMyLife]

I didn't just scan the thread for suspicion of geraintm, I specifically remembered the incident because I was one of the people was on gerain's case about it. Thats a part of the reason why he remains on my shortlist today.

[OhGodMyLife]

Ok, after re-reading the entire thread, my top three suspects are as follows (in no particular order):

Soupfly- very vote-hoppy, seems to go whichever way the wind blows. Several votes without explanations. Just get a general bad vibe from his posts.

Zeek- threatens to hammer if DS is put at L-1 despite Jesters (let alone self-lynching Jesters) being HIGHLY unlikely in a mini normal game. Felt like he was justifying a speedlynch in advance to look less scummy. Breadcrumbing miller by saying he doesn't think there are any vanilla townies. After lynch, claims miller knowing the cop is going to investigate him.

Petunho- just general scum vibes here. I could be totally off on this one, but if you read all three of their posts together, they seem to be acting as a cohesive unit. Last time I checked, lurking didn't outrank scummy play. It looks as though he wanted a reason to unvote soupfly and used my "lurking" to do so.

I'd be ok with either a Zeek or a Soupfly lynch today. I'd like more time to examine Petunho.

I get pro-town vibes from Mike and TSPN.

Lowell could go either way.

@Mike- Not really sure when I lost interest. It was more that my other games picked up quite a bit and I just let this game slide. Sort of an "I'll get to it" mentality.

I've bolded the most important part of this quote but I think the whole thing is pretty scummy. We know that zeek and soup were both town, and his case on soup seems to have boiled down to a "bad vibe" which is scum language for "any old reason to go after a townie." The case on petunho looks like more gut BS with some OMGUS reactionism thrown in. Add to that the language about lowell that screams SCUMPARTNER! and I think I might be onto something.

To be completely frank, I believe that one of the following is true...

A- Zeek is scum
B- Soupfly is scum
C- Both are scum

We're not at lynch or lose, the case against either of you has merits. If I didn't think that switching my vote to Soupfly would let you wriggle out of being lynched tomorrow, I'd do so.

Oh my god! A false dichotomy! The possibility of back to back mislynches! Its a scum's best friend!

<snipped for brevity>

For now, my naughty list is: Zeek, Soupfly. I don't like how soupfly has been on every wagon. I don't like how he's hopped his vote to every person who's made even just a 'ping' in someone's scumdar. The votes of his which aren't wagoning, and aren't random hopping are just following up after someone posts suspicions. I always believe a person's voting pattern tells more about his alignment than his posts. Yours has me wary.

The people who are not on my nice list but didn't make the naughty list are: Petunho, Skruff, Michel. Petunho is there because, as far as I can tell so far, he hasn't hunted as much as the rest. I'm comparing scum hunting activity by benchmarking against Michel, Skruff, and Zeek, so maybe that's not very fair though. Those three have been very active and asked a lot of questions and found a lot of suspicious play, so maybe comparing people to them isn't very fair. Also, OGML and TSPN haven't hunted as much as those three, but petunho strikes me as trying to keep his head down,

but you could say as much of lowell

.

<snipped for brevity>

Again I've highlighted an important piece. This is an excerpt from Ting's first big post upon replacing, after he finished a grueling reread. He keeps up QuickBen's lovely pairing of Zeek and Soupfly, takes some potshots at skruffs michel and petunho, and says that TSPN and I haven't done much scumhunting. Yet in all of that all he seems to have decided about Lowell is that he's trying to keep his head down. Really? I guess you just, I don't know, missed the case against him being made by both TSPN and myself throughout day two, since you seem to think neither of us were really doing much scumhunting. And didn't have any opinion on what he did say. At all. Or the much simpler and more likely explanation, you're his scumbuddy. Ockham's Razor wins this round.

Why are you voting Shaka michel? There's been a lot of to and fro between zeek and shaka, but why are you voting him? I'm sure you've already said it before, but I'd like your last word on it.

More than a month later, this is the next time lowell/shaka even comes up in one of your posts.

Since deadline hasn't come yet though, why are you so sure Shaka is scum? If you can convince that he's scum without at any time reffering to yourself as town and in less than one page's worth of text, I'll unvote you and vote him, making him the lynch.

This was said to Zeek. Let me translate into scumtalk: "You're not gonna convince me to lynch my partner instead of you, but go ahead and keep trying!"

*Shaka will not be the lynch if you change your vote.

I'm on the Zeek wagon. If I change my vote to Shaka, Zeek's count becomes 4-1 and Shaka's count becomes 3+1. Shaka gets lynched.

request:deadline

---
Personally, I'm starting to doubt my zeek vote. He's done the scummiest things by far, but I keep wifom-ing myself that his actions are too scummy to be scum. His defense consisting of repetitions and wifom isn't helping my conscience much.

For the moment I think zeek is still the best place for my vote, but I'm open to other possibilities if anyone can convince me.

Translating into scumtalk once again: "Oh my gods they might actually lynch my scumpartner! Better invoke the age old scum tool for forcing mislynches, the deadline! And while I'm at it this is clearly the time to start laying the seeds of doubt about the zeek mislynch so later I have a chance to go say I told you so!"

Shaka - I think he's town. One reason is that I just don't view lurking as scummy. Another is that I agree with a lot his posts on Zeek. That's not much reason to conclude that he's town though. It's not so much that I think he's town, but that I have no reason to think he's scum. If you can tell me why you think he's scum, I might change my mind, but for now I think he's town.

Here ting clearly states that he'd be open to bussing his scumbuddy, but only if somebody else does the work and makes a case about him. Until then he'll just keep saying he's town for no real reason and hoping the case doesn't materialize.

remember: beginning of Day 2 people who voted me: soupfly, TSPN, QuickBen, Skruffs

There's scum on there. Guaranteed.

THIS is what I'm talking about when I say that if zeek cardflips town we still have a lot to go on. He's actually right about this one.

I disagree. Zeek's play just looks so scummy, there was bound to be votes on him come day 2. Do you really think he'd have come off pure white after all that happened day 1?

Yes, there might be scum among there, but seeing how scummy Zeeks look, it's just as likely that scum might be sitting back, sipping coffee and just letting us lynch Zeek. Or even buddying up to Zeek so they look better if Zeek flips town. It's a null tell. You can accuse any of the players now from association with Zeek, especially since he's either attacked or buddied with nearly everyone.

Also, just to repeat: Why did you change your mind and vote Zeek?

I gather you disagreed because Zeek actually had QuickBen pegged and you were the scum on that early day two wagon?

I think lurking is okay as a cause for suspicion, but not a conclusive scum tell on it's own. I might believe you on Shaka if you can say from experience that he's lurked more than once before as scum.

More requests for somebody else to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that shaka is scum before he's even willing to consider the possibility himself.

It seems a shaka lynch is inevitable, but I'm not too sure with it. I see your point that he was just gunning zeek when he got in, and that lowell was scummy, but I don't understand why he's going for geraintm now.

This quote in scumtalk, brought to you by OGML: "Wait, wait guys, hold on a second. I need to think of some way to save my scum partner. No, I can't, but I can't bring myself to vote him either."

Shaka's looking at someone with a fairly clean record strikes me as a genuine attempt at scum hunting.

You probably should have stopped defending shaka with the town steamrolling towards his lynch like that.

Vote: ting =)

[OhGodMyLife]

That looks pretty solid to me. I'm going to actually reread the game (and wouldn't vote right now in any case), but I think ting is an excellent starting point.

Its also a process of elimination. You and I were on Lowell's case pretty damn hard on day two when nobody else would listen to us. Battle Mage started the push against Shaka yesterday. And Shaka tunnel visioned on Geraintm like crazy. I don't read any of those interactions as bussing. Soup/Fae died, leaving Ting as the last possibility. So I did the research and found the hard evidence.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote: TSPN

Personally, i thought Ting looked strongly protown yesterday. He had plenty of time and opportunity to bus, or even to try for an alternative wagon. TSPN on the other hand, tried to push an alternative wagon, but when it was clear he couldnt get the support, he bussed his buddy.

Pretty clear cut from where i'm sat.

BM

I'd agree with you if you weren't so wrong.

[OhGodMyLife]

The last paper I will ever write as an undergraduate took the place of what should have been my eight hours of sleep last night, so I'm gonna try to find room today for as many of those hours as I can make up, expect a real post from me after I accomplish that.

[OhGodMyLife]

babble babble

Thats why I'm gonna sleep before I do.

nutter idea: Would a massclaim help here? I find myself agreeing with BM that there's a good possibility of one more non vanilla role in the setup, and at this point a confirmed townie > whatever power role ability it is in almost all cases.

[OhGodMyLife]

If by weakest you mean 'furthest in the past' then yes, I did go after Lowell weakly. If you actually go back into the past and look however you'll see it was anything but weak.

[OhGodMyLife]

Bah! I made it so far too. /dies

[OhGodMyLife]

Woo go town!

You guys have no idea how mad I was when you lynched TSPN. No idea.

I liked the setup a lot Q. This has got to be some record for length of a mini normal though.

[OhGodMyLife]

An a related note, after getting nightkilled I was pretty positive it had to be BM and not ting. Lot of good that did, having been nightkilled and everything.