Mini 533: Something wicked this way comes! Game over!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because I couldn't rally support for lynching you?

[shaka!!]

i still have no real idea who is scum in this game. at least when zeek was around there was plenty of meat to chew, now trying to pick our way through scraps

shaka never followed up his "i'll respond to geraintm" on the 24th, and as shaka was really the only person i have dealt with at all today, i find myself in limbo, nothing to talk about.

Well to be honest, there really isn't anything to respond to. But here I go..

[shaka!!]

yeah, you have me described well, very cautious, not voting.
reason, i was never sure enough to vote and i tend take my time over voting and placing votes.
with my role, i don't have much info to go on. what i do have made me doubt zeek's claim and his reasoning.
but if i am scum, why didnt i vote for zeek? he was very lynchable, i doubt there would havebeen much if a ramification from it.
and if i was scum, it would have been easier to have got him lynched so long ago? rather than sitting on the sidelines and hoping all the silly townsfolk went the wrong way?
and, as you "must" by town, coulnd't i have voted for you at the same time when it was all zeek vs you.

What you could have done does not matter. It is what you did that matters. I proposed a case against you, you say I described you very well and continue to defend yourself by saying things you did not do, things that had nothing to do with my point against you. In fact, you're even mimicking Zeek here. "If I were scum why would I do this yadiyadayada"

What I said in the previous post is an understatement. There is

nothing

to respond to here. You haven't addressed my case against you at all.

[shaka!!]

The case isn't on that. The case is supplying little to the game.

Everyone knew Zeek was as scummy as hell, but everyone else thought outside the box and checked other people out. Last day all you checked was zeek (and a very little bit of MSH). You contributed little apart from what other people said.

Funny you say that because when I replaced into the game almost no one was giving Zeek any attention at all, it was as if he never claimed. I believe it was Skruffs who had everyones attention at that point?

[shaka!!]

Oh, it seems I never did, so

vote: geraintm

I'd really like someone to add to that.

[shaka!!]

Oh so when I'm about to be deadline lynched everyone goes afk.

Nice move scum ):

[OhGodMyLife]

I haven't been AFK my friend, I've been around and noting how I am perfectly content lynching you.

[ting =)]

Wow. You looked 30 pages back just to find other people suspicious of geraintm? I'm wondering why. I've read the posts you mentioned though, and I think the points are valid, I'll have to think geraintm-scum over. It still doesn't change though, that geraintm was not the most suspicious person coming into day 3, there were others with way more votes and suspicion on them at the point in time of post 224, and at the end of day 2. Shaka's looking at someone with a fairly clean record strikes me as a genuine attempt at scum hunting.

[OhGodMyLife]

I didn't just scan the thread for suspicion of geraintm, I specifically remembered the incident because I was one of the people was on gerain's case about it. Thats a part of the reason why he remains on my shortlist today.

[Qman]

Quick n' Dirty Deadline Lynch

Shaka!! - 3 (Battle Mage, OhGodMylife. TheSweatPantsNinja)
gerantim - 1 (Shaka!!)

Not voting - Everyone else

You very laconically string Shaka from the pine in the middle of town. Amidst the fighting for air, you see a gun fall out of his pocket. Wooo hooo found one!

Shaka!!, Mafia, Lynched day 3,

72 hours for night choices.

[Qman]

The i dont have alot of time for flavor dawn!

You all walk into the town center... all of you except Soupfly, who has a bullet in his head. He just kinda lays there.

FaerirLord,

Townie

, is dead.

5 left, 3 to lynch.

[FaerieLord]

Bah, go town

[OhGodMyLife]

Ok, after re-reading the entire thread, my top three suspects are as follows (in no particular order):

Soupfly- very vote-hoppy, seems to go whichever way the wind blows. Several votes without explanations. Just get a general bad vibe from his posts.

Zeek- threatens to hammer if DS is put at L-1 despite Jesters (let alone self-lynching Jesters) being HIGHLY unlikely in a mini normal game. Felt like he was justifying a speedlynch in advance to look less scummy. Breadcrumbing miller by saying he doesn't think there are any vanilla townies. After lynch, claims miller knowing the cop is going to investigate him.

Petunho- just general scum vibes here. I could be totally off on this one, but if you read all three of their posts together, they seem to be acting as a cohesive unit. Last time I checked, lurking didn't outrank scummy play. It looks as though he wanted a reason to unvote soupfly and used my "lurking" to do so.

I'd be ok with either a Zeek or a Soupfly lynch today. I'd like more time to examine Petunho.

I get pro-town vibes from Mike and TSPN.

Lowell could go either way.

@Mike- Not really sure when I lost interest. It was more that my other games picked up quite a bit and I just let this game slide. Sort of an "I'll get to it" mentality.

I've bolded the most important part of this quote but I think the whole thing is pretty scummy. We know that zeek and soup were both town, and his case on soup seems to have boiled down to a "bad vibe" which is scum language for "any old reason to go after a townie." The case on petunho looks like more gut BS with some OMGUS reactionism thrown in. Add to that the language about lowell that screams SCUMPARTNER! and I think I might be onto something.

To be completely frank, I believe that one of the following is true...

A- Zeek is scum
B- Soupfly is scum
C- Both are scum

We're not at lynch or lose, the case against either of you has merits. If I didn't think that switching my vote to Soupfly would let you wriggle out of being lynched tomorrow, I'd do so.

Oh my god! A false dichotomy! The possibility of back to back mislynches! Its a scum's best friend!

<snipped for brevity>

For now, my naughty list is: Zeek, Soupfly. I don't like how soupfly has been on every wagon. I don't like how he's hopped his vote to every person who's made even just a 'ping' in someone's scumdar. The votes of his which aren't wagoning, and aren't random hopping are just following up after someone posts suspicions. I always believe a person's voting pattern tells more about his alignment than his posts. Yours has me wary.

The people who are not on my nice list but didn't make the naughty list are: Petunho, Skruff, Michel. Petunho is there because, as far as I can tell so far, he hasn't hunted as much as the rest. I'm comparing scum hunting activity by benchmarking against Michel, Skruff, and Zeek, so maybe that's not very fair though. Those three have been very active and asked a lot of questions and found a lot of suspicious play, so maybe comparing people to them isn't very fair. Also, OGML and TSPN haven't hunted as much as those three, but petunho strikes me as trying to keep his head down,

but you could say as much of lowell

.

<snipped for brevity>

Again I've highlighted an important piece. This is an excerpt from Ting's first big post upon replacing, after he finished a grueling reread. He keeps up QuickBen's lovely pairing of Zeek and Soupfly, takes some potshots at skruffs michel and petunho, and says that TSPN and I haven't done much scumhunting. Yet in all of that all he seems to have decided about Lowell is that he's trying to keep his head down. Really? I guess you just, I don't know, missed the case against him being made by both TSPN and myself throughout day two, since you seem to think neither of us were really doing much scumhunting. And didn't have any opinion on what he did say. At all. Or the much simpler and more likely explanation, you're his scumbuddy. Ockham's Razor wins this round.

Why are you voting Shaka michel? There's been a lot of to and fro between zeek and shaka, but why are you voting him? I'm sure you've already said it before, but I'd like your last word on it.

More than a month later, this is the next time lowell/shaka even comes up in one of your posts.

Since deadline hasn't come yet though, why are you so sure Shaka is scum? If you can convince that he's scum without at any time reffering to yourself as town and in less than one page's worth of text, I'll unvote you and vote him, making him the lynch.

This was said to Zeek. Let me translate into scumtalk: "You're not gonna convince me to lynch my partner instead of you, but go ahead and keep trying!"

*Shaka will not be the lynch if you change your vote.

I'm on the Zeek wagon. If I change my vote to Shaka, Zeek's count becomes 4-1 and Shaka's count becomes 3+1. Shaka gets lynched.

request:deadline

---
Personally, I'm starting to doubt my zeek vote. He's done the scummiest things by far, but I keep wifom-ing myself that his actions are too scummy to be scum. His defense consisting of repetitions and wifom isn't helping my conscience much.

For the moment I think zeek is still the best place for my vote, but I'm open to other possibilities if anyone can convince me.

Translating into scumtalk once again: "Oh my gods they might actually lynch my scumpartner! Better invoke the age old scum tool for forcing mislynches, the deadline! And while I'm at it this is clearly the time to start laying the seeds of doubt about the zeek mislynch so later I have a chance to go say I told you so!"

Shaka - I think he's town. One reason is that I just don't view lurking as scummy. Another is that I agree with a lot his posts on Zeek. That's not much reason to conclude that he's town though. It's not so much that I think he's town, but that I have no reason to think he's scum. If you can tell me why you think he's scum, I might change my mind, but for now I think he's town.

Here ting clearly states that he'd be open to bussing his scumbuddy, but only if somebody else does the work and makes a case about him. Until then he'll just keep saying he's town for no real reason and hoping the case doesn't materialize.

remember: beginning of Day 2 people who voted me: soupfly, TSPN, QuickBen, Skruffs

There's scum on there. Guaranteed.

THIS is what I'm talking about when I say that if zeek cardflips town we still have a lot to go on. He's actually right about this one.

I disagree. Zeek's play just looks so scummy, there was bound to be votes on him come day 2. Do you really think he'd have come off pure white after all that happened day 1?

Yes, there might be scum among there, but seeing how scummy Zeeks look, it's just as likely that scum might be sitting back, sipping coffee and just letting us lynch Zeek. Or even buddying up to Zeek so they look better if Zeek flips town. It's a null tell. You can accuse any of the players now from association with Zeek, especially since he's either attacked or buddied with nearly everyone.

Also, just to repeat: Why did you change your mind and vote Zeek?

I gather you disagreed because Zeek actually had QuickBen pegged and you were the scum on that early day two wagon?

I think lurking is okay as a cause for suspicion, but not a conclusive scum tell on it's own. I might believe you on Shaka if you can say from experience that he's lurked more than once before as scum.

More requests for somebody else to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that shaka is scum before he's even willing to consider the possibility himself.

It seems a shaka lynch is inevitable, but I'm not too sure with it. I see your point that he was just gunning zeek when he got in, and that lowell was scummy, but I don't understand why he's going for geraintm now.

This quote in scumtalk, brought to you by OGML: "Wait, wait guys, hold on a second. I need to think of some way to save my scum partner. No, I can't, but I can't bring myself to vote him either."

Shaka's looking at someone with a fairly clean record strikes me as a genuine attempt at scum hunting.

You probably should have stopped defending shaka with the town steamrolling towards his lynch like that.

Vote: ting =)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That looks pretty solid to me. I'm going to actually reread the game (and wouldn't vote right now in any case), but I think ting is an excellent starting point.

[OhGodMyLife]

That looks pretty solid to me. I'm going to actually reread the game (and wouldn't vote right now in any case), but I think ting is an excellent starting point.

Its also a process of elimination. You and I were on Lowell's case pretty damn hard on day two when nobody else would listen to us. Battle Mage started the push against Shaka yesterday. And Shaka tunnel visioned on Geraintm like crazy. I don't read any of those interactions as bussing. Soup/Fae died, leaving Ting as the last possibility. So I did the research and found the hard evidence.

[Battle Mage]

Vote: TSPN

Personally, i thought Ting looked strongly protown yesterday. He had plenty of time and opportunity to bus, or even to try for an alternative wagon. TSPN on the other hand, tried to push an alternative wagon, but when it was clear he couldnt get the support, he bussed his buddy.

Pretty clear cut from where i'm sat.

BM

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And I guess I've been bussing him all the way since Day 2.

Also, so its scummier for me to have been active and vote for the eventual lynch then for ting to have been lurked through the day and refused to commit anywhere to anything?

[geraintm]

ok, quickly checking in to say that i have seen things have restarted
will reread myself and see what i get from the game now that i know shaka was scum

[geraintm]

if shaka got points fo rnot mentioning people, he woul dbe so far ahead
i don't think he made a post at ting the whole game, nor mage.
maybe one aimed at ohgod too
and i think one aimed at ninja
pretty much the only people he talked to were zeek, michael, skruffs and me.

i was looking to see which players he argued with, trying to distance, and i think the only player he did who is still alive is me...

in my head, Bm looks fine, the push with the first vote yesterday looks good to me
will lookat the rest of you later

[ting =)]

@OGML.
Shaka was clearly going to get lynched, why would I go and defend him? This is wifom, yes, but I really honestly thought shaka was town. I still can't understand his posts about geraintm. Right now I'm trying to figure out if geraintm is his partner and he was trying to make him look like a townie by attacking him as he died, but the timing is all off. He attacked geraintm as soon as day 3 started, he wouldn't have known he was going to get lynched at that point.

Your whole post on me is completely off. I don't have time now, but I'll reply within 3 days.

[geraintm]

no, not his partner.
would be a complete change of style on his behalf to pick on his scum partner at the start of day 3. every other person who he has gone after, when they get revealed has come up non-scum. woul dhave been a very large change in his methods to have planned day 3 turning on his partner, me.
i hope you beleive me when i say i am not scum, and his attack on me is probably my best defence right now

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I agree with geraintm. It certainly didn't feel to me like shaka was the next obvious lynch, so I don't think he would have come out bussing.

Ting's defense does next to nothing to convince me. I'll let him reply, but I'm definitely not sold at the moment.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote: TSPN

Personally, i thought Ting looked strongly protown yesterday. He had plenty of time and opportunity to bus, or even to try for an alternative wagon. TSPN on the other hand, tried to push an alternative wagon, but when it was clear he couldnt get the support, he bussed his buddy.

Pretty clear cut from where i'm sat.

BM

I'd agree with you if you weren't so wrong.

[Battle Mage]

And I guess I've been bussing him all the way since Day 2.

Also, so its scummier for me to have been active and vote for the eventual lynch then for ting to have been lurked through the day and refused to commit anywhere to anything?

Erm, to be frank- Yes. You know as well as anyone that there is 'bussing' and there is 'BUSSING'. Theres a pretty big difference between putting a small amount of pressure on someone in order to distance from them, and hope that it pays off later, and actually forcing a lynch on somebody.

The former is a tactic i've seen used thousands of times on MS, and often by myself. The latter is far rarer, hence i am far more inclined to buy someone's innocence claims if they actually maintained the pressure on that scumbag, as opposed to simply attacking them weakly when there was little chance of anything materialising.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: TSPN

Personally, i thought Ting looked strongly protown yesterday. He had plenty of time and opportunity to bus, or even to try for an alternative wagon. TSPN on the other hand, tried to push an alternative wagon, but when it was clear he couldnt get the support, he bussed his buddy.

Pretty clear cut from where i'm sat.

BM

I'd agree with you if you weren't so wrong.

what is your view on TSPN's play yesterday then?
The only way i'll take you seriously is if you refrain from being vague, and explain your PoV.