Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[Nachomamma8]

I know! I forgot my semicolon!

[Nachomamma8]

What I don't think is silly is his concerns about Wisdom not being aggressive and whether or not the meta change means scum. I've seen aggressive and subdued Wisdom as scum though so I don't think that the change definitely means he's scum as I can think of a few town reasons for someone to change their approach, and there's no reason for him not to be aggressive in this situation as it would be what a good many of us would expect.

I was a bit weirded out by him not posting his quote stripes when he first entered though, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in arguments that he didn't explain a scum read because he couldn't at that time.

Cakez starting out with a reasonable point and then letting it get completely out of hand is pretty much what happened in Real Folks Blues and it's what I'm afraid of it happening here.

What usually happens (at least with me) is people see something that bothers them and then when they make the actual wall they end up finding more to talk about. I don't think that it's particularly alignment indicative; I agree that he probably had at least a reason in mind when he made that vote, though.

[Kagami]

I think farside vote is L-1

[Wisdom]

nope, still L-2

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - Not sure what to think about Infinity yet. I don't thing the early town reads due to him continuing on his "tryhard" style in the face of being called out by wisdom all that strong when he didn't even realize he was being called out. There are a few posts that I like. I like him being like I'm playing shitty right now because I haven't slept and it's day one where I struggle because I empathize with that type of sentiment. I don't know if you read the maze prerestart, but early game infinity scum was tryhardy and a bit nitpicky. He did interact and distance with his partner quite a bit, and then he jumped off of his partner to scum read me mostly because my opening post was forced. Anyway our interaction felt a little odd, and I felt like he had an agenda. It wasn't even close to conclusive and I'm bummed we restarted because now I don't know if I'd have gotten that read right. But this is a lot of words to say some of his posts don't give me that same feel. From that game I do think he has a bit of a nitpicky type of scum game (maybe?) and I don't get the sense that he'd change his approach just because someone mentioned it, especially when he just didn't notice it. Some of his posts feel sticky, but then some feel fluid and I like those.

This is probably my same read; I think there are a lot of nitpicky posts/posts I disagree with/posts that bother me but a lot of the posts he makes on how he feels on gamestate and a lot of the point he makes as an aside looks town and those aren't posts that he's been making as scum. I also like the way that he kind of feels like he's lost, like he's pushing a lot of different angles and backing down from them pretty easily; I'd his scum play to be more straightforward as in laying down a plan and following it, especially based on his responses about farside looking town because her initial push was "too sloppy" or Wisdom's response being town because he "could have given a better response if scum".

[Nachomamma8]

Kraska is most likely just town. I also think that Nacho and I are finally town together again (RIGHT NOW :p). Other town reads on Pere and Kagami. (I do feel weird with such a decent town read on Pere so early. Sometimes day one I lean town, but don't feel this decent. The last time I did, he was an SK so every time I get a good read on Pere early I think he might be an SK and it freaks me out, but I don't think there's an SK this game, so I just think I have a weird early decent town read on Pere.)

I was going to mention that I was starting get get paranoid on him because he hasn't been around until I remember that he said he wouldn't be around on weekends >.>

I agree that kraska feels town but I still would like for her to flesh out what she was thinking about Kagami a little more and starts pushing for things a little more aggressively; she's definitely capable of it (as I've found while looking over games that Giga linked to me) while as scum she's definitely more likely to keep her head in the sand for a while.

[Nachomamma8]

Firstly, it's somewhat of a good sign to me that both Wisdom and SirCakez both scumread him. It's a little early in the game though to present doubts on that front for fear of WIFOM.

Why were Cakez and Wisdom the two people that you were focused on?
Is the argument that you're making here is that one of those two are likely to be scum and so it's not likely that either would be bussing at this stage or...?

Why did you like 147?
I don't think Shadow's activity is indicative of much considering the V/LA.

[Nachomamma8]

Also it's kind of funky how you talk about how semantic arguments are a scumtell to you but then you talk about them like it's just a playstyle you don't like but that's just a minor niggle.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: Why are you ignoring me?

Wasn't intentional; I was distracted when posting yesterday.

[Nachomamma8]

wraith's post re:shaddow is weird
You feel like hes going to be forcing a scumread on him when it begins but by the end hes actually doing the "i dont understand why this is being voted" thing
I dont know what to think here

this is a better way to put it yeah

I don't quite have the time to go through Wraith's post right this second, but I will later; some things are questionable (what Wisdom pointed out) but most of it looked fine.

That's some quick turn around there.

For what it's worth, I agree with this point; I don't really agree that buddying is the scumtell that Infinity made it out to be. I don't think it's as reasonable to expect him to remember whether you had used pre-flip associatives last game you played together or not (not only do I not remember what the last game we played together was, I'm not sure whether you used pre-flip associatives in it or not).

Interested in seeing Wraith's responses to the points that Tammy brought up.

[Bulbazak]

I've played one game with him

Was he town or scum? And how do his actions in that game compare to this game, and does that contribute to your read?

• The hardcore lurking by Leonshade and Bulbazak is very annoying

Lion-O declared he was V/LA in his one post, and I was just very busy. "Hardcore lurking" makes it sound like we were purposefully avoiding the game, when activity issues are the most likely reason and are inherently unscummy.

I was going off the one game I can remember seeing your play (Mafiaception) where you were pretty active as town
But I don't think I've seen your scum game so that's moot anyway

Fair enough, but I think I had rough spots of activity in that game too, although they were probably not at the beginning of the game. I have a tendency to sometimes miss a day or two and then have to catch up. Heck, in my last game, I lost track of time and got prodded twice for not posting for like 5 days.

• How Wisdom is “leaning town” on Bulbazak in #377 after only two posts by the latter player is puzzling. In #379 Wisdom posts in reads list and has Leonshade as “leaning scum” – how he leans scum for Leon (who has one post) and leans town for Bulba (who had two posts at that point) seems really contradictory

bad for the same reason as above
you're pretending to be the judge of how I am getting my reads when you are not in my mind and you don't think like I do

Then why don't you explain your thought process?

I don't dislike the wall at all, except perhaps for wisdoms point,which isn't horribly damning

Then why did you vote for Wraith?

Bulba - Nope, there's nothing to be suspicious of. It's just the last several games we've played together you've been suspicious of me for some reason or another.

I was paranoid of you for awhile after Capcom. And sometimes, you'd have a rough start and that would contribute to my read of you. Normally it settles out after awhile, but it was very easy to get a bead on you this game.

Do you always tend to work with nacho or is wanting his feedback something new you're trying for this game?

Everything within me is screaming that this is Wisdom's scum game. However, Nacho's acting like it isn't, and there are indicators that it could just be Wisdom playing like he did in my very first game on site. I would like to pick Nacho's brain about it, because my gut is telling me that I'm just wanting to believe the best here and that this game

is

that easy and that we can all be friends. But at the same time, I'm starting to get a sinking feeling, and there's a bit of paranoia now starting to resurface.

Btw, I'm also starting to reconsider my initial read on Wraith. He's starting to have some much better posts, and I think he may be town here.

Anyway, going to be gone for the rest of today. I'll pick this up when I get back.

On to page 21.

[Wisdom]

Then why don't you explain your thought process?

I did? Is there a read I haven't explained?

[Wisdom]

Everything within me is screaming that this is Wisdom's scum game.

Elaborate please because I'm starting to not buy it

[farside22]

First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.

Although I did want the question of what infinity gains by making such a quick turn around as scum answered to.

When I saw infinity swap from first thought was shit, is wraith being quick lynched by scum? Then I wondered if infinity maybe bussing after I didn't get a response about why he was defending wraith.

Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.


Anyways my scum list look like this:

Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)

[Wisdom]

Anyways my scum list look like this:

Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)

how do you feel about shaddow?

if you replaced infinity with him we'd agree.

[farside22]

Nacho - Not sure what to think about Infinity yet. I don't thing the early town reads due to him continuing on his "tryhard" style in the face of being called out by wisdom all that strong when he didn't even realize he was being called out. There are a few posts that I like. I like him being like I'm playing shitty right now because I haven't slept and it's day one where I struggle because I empathize with that type of sentiment. I don't know if you read the maze prerestart, but early game infinity scum was tryhardy and a bit nitpicky. He did interact and distance with his partner quite a bit, and then he jumped off of his partner to scum read me mostly because my opening post was forced. Anyway our interaction felt a little odd, and I felt like he had an agenda. It wasn't even close to conclusive and I'm bummed we restarted because now I don't know if I'd have gotten that read right. But this is a lot of words to say some of his posts don't give me that same feel. From that game I do think he has a bit of a nitpicky type of scum game (maybe?) and I don't get the sense that he'd change his approach just because someone mentioned it, especially when he just didn't notice it. Some of his posts feel sticky, but then some feel fluid and I like those.

This is probably my same read; I think there are a lot of nitpicky posts/posts I disagree with/posts that bother me but a lot of the posts he makes on how he feels on gamestate and a lot of the point he makes as an aside looks town and those aren't posts that he's been making as scum. I also like the way that he kind of feels like he's lost, like he's pushing a lot of different angles and backing down from them pretty easily; I'd his scum play to be more straightforward as in laying down a plan and following it, especially based on his responses about farside looking town because her initial push was "too sloppy" or Wisdom's response being town because he "could have given a better response if scum".

Here is my take away on infinity.
He got caught with the try hard, he went a different way.
He got caught with his weak read and now is scrabbling.

Kraska is most likely just town. I also think that Nacho and I are finally town together again (RIGHT NOW :p). Other town reads on Pere and Kagami. (I do feel weird with such a decent town read on Pere so early. Sometimes day one I lean town, but don't feel this decent. The last time I did, he was an SK so every time I get a good read on Pere early I think he might be an SK and it freaks me out, but I don't think there's an SK this game, so I just think I have a weird early decent town read on Pere.)

I was going to mention that I was starting get get paranoid on him because he hasn't been around until I remember that he said he wouldn't be around on weekends >.>

I agree that kraska feels town but I still would like for her to flesh out what she was thinking about Kagami a little more and starts pushing for things a little more aggressively; she's definitely capable of it (as I've found while looking over games that Giga linked to me) while as scum she's definitely more likely to keep her head in the sand for a while.

The one ticking point i have against Kraska is that I only know of what scum read she has and she seems to being doing little else.

Anyways my scum list look like this:

Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)

how do you feel about shaddow?

if you replaced infinity with him we'd agree.

This is when you have a pre-association moment and go, farside you need to seek help.
If bulba is scum I don't see him voting his scum buddy and standing on that as the first vote. If you look at the post from Bulba he hasn't even really pushed his scum read on anyone but you.

For me to drop infinity off my list I need him to explain his views from start of the game about wraith to this point currently and what his scum reads are in full.

[Leonshade]

Back from V/LA, catching up tomorrow.

[Infinity 324]

I've played one game with him

Was he town or scum? And how do his actions in that game compare to this game, and does that contribute to your read?

He was town, and he was more aggressive. But I don't like making meta reads off of one game

[Infinity 324]

First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.

Ok, I'm glad you're willing to act differently. I'm sorry for insulting your play, I hope we can have more productive discussions in the future.

Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.

Here's where I was defending wraith:

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Yes, "town lean" is in the sentence "I like

d

infinity for town-lean". I don't see how that's relevant. And then he pointed out the stuff in his next post, which was 3 posts later I believe. I don't see the issue.

I voted him because...he commented on a bunch of stuff without trying to scumhunt, but his latest post made me feel a little better in that regard.

But I'm not saying he's town and a wagon on him is as good as any (except maybe cakez). So *shrug*

At first i was just trying to correct a misconception. I also said I wasn't sure I liked the wagon, but ok I'll admit that statement wasn't really necessary for a null read.

The next post I continued to try to correct the misconception, and also disclaimed that my intent wasn't to convince you that he's town. I just wanted to make sure you got your facts right. Does that explain that?

[Infinity 324]

For me to drop infinity off my list I need him to explain his views from start of the game about wraith to this point currently and what his scum reads are in full.

Ok, you got it....

At the start of the game I voted wraith because of just fluffposting, I don't consider it a super strong tell but it was my best bet at that point.

Spoiler: fluff

Mr. Scruffy is wondering if there is a reason besides RVS that four players immediately voted Nacho.

Mr. Scruffy feels excluded from this conversation because it seems like people are using meta to scumhunt on farside.

? I'm not

Do you have any other thoughts

Mr. Scruffy re-read the last page and now realizes where you were coming from.

He also says no, not at this time.

I'm late rip

VOTE: wisdom

Mr. Scruffy would like to know if this is an RVS vote or has actual backing.

Then came the next stage of wraith's posting. He started at least trying to look like he's scumhunting and gave me the immediate vibes of "so bad it's town", like he wasn't trying to look good. So I guess that made up for his earlier stuff in my mind.

Spoiler: other shit

It has backing

Mr. Scruffy says "You're right."

This is an awfully strange 180:

infinity you're trying too hard and me no like

says infinity who tried to question a joke

I will also agree with the townreads on Infinity.

I think that him continuing to nitpick things and defend that way of playing despite people clearly finding it odd and worth questioning shows lack of scum motivation.

Vote: Wisdom

Specific stuff I don't like about Infinity so far:

I had a woohoo woowee I'm town post planned, but I rolled scum

that's what you really meant, admit it

Why no vote?

This really rubs me the wrong way. It's a pretty obvious joke literally less than 10 posts into the game but he's jumping on it like it's scummy.

I liked him town-lean early for posts 25, 28, and 39, but so far that's kind of it.

Ha! I thought it had something to do with the numbers.

Tammy - Understanding P5's humor since 2016. Go me!

Infinity - Did you just vote nacho because there was a wagon started on him already?

Yes

This rubs me wrong too.

You're entitled to your opinion. Since I don't think farside's vote was particularly scummy, I'm not going to bother to argue it.

He says this, but previously had like five posts questioning the motives of farside's vote. ???

His vote on me without explaining why is odd but could easily just be looking to get a reaction out of me. I guess it worked a different way because it drew a lot of reactions from other players.

I might shift my vote in a minute. About to re-read Wisdom's ISO to see if I'm remembering things right in my evaluation of him.

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

I didn't read your last big post. I did read your case and the lots of quotes reminded me of biker wars.

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Would like other answers about whether cakez is this shallow as scum vs. town

@cakez What do you think about wisdom's response that he changed playstyle because he felt like it? Do you think that's unlikely?

I don't know who scum is, but that's ok I guess. This game I'll try a more patient approach and not judge anyone until I have a solid read on them.

Town lean is in that sentence. And he didn't explain the issues.
Speaking of which, why did you vote him in the first place?

Yeah I don't like this one. I clearly explained why my read had changed.

Okay let's take a look at shadow's short ISO

Firstly, it's somewhat of a good sign to me that both Wisdom and SirCakez both scumread him. It's a little early in the game though to present doubts on that front for fear of WIFOM.

I believe I have an early leaning town read on kagami.

You believe you do, or you do? They're not quite the same.

Fluff IMO

I believe I have an early leaning town read on kagami.

You believe you do, or you do? They're not quite the same.

They're pretty much the same.

Infinity

, here's your answer: I tend to be nitpicky about semantics. One of the phrases is more assertive than the other, which often times comes from town. The other leaves a little bit of room for maneuverability, which often times comes from scum. In this case they are pretty much the same, but the phrasing can still be indicative of things.

I don't like semantic arguments. That's just me. Semantic arguments are a scumtell to me. That's probably because I strongly prefer VCA and logical/data-based arguments than attempting to analyze word choice or emotional expression. I think it's absolutely impossible to accurately analyze someone's emotional state over the internet.

...snip...
Kagami is spending all his time trying to sort specifically me, which is odd to me. But he still seems town for now. Gut town lean on Tammy.

VOTE: wraith

Two things. First, if you have a read on a particular person, shouldn't you pursue that and/or pressure them? What's specifically odd about trying to sort out one person, especially without knowing their motivation for doing so? Second - why discuss other people in your post, and then vote Wraith with no other mention of him in your post?

This is an awfully strange 180:

Whats strange about it? The reason im townreading Infinity happened after those initial posts and actually have to do with how Infinity handled those posts.

I dont like this.

Widom beat me to it. There were a number of posts in between, and I can easily see how Infinity's responses could have caused a change in a read. Are you suggesting that people's reads shouldn't change?

@Nacho: Can you explain what you were trying to accomplish with your questioning of shadow?

I'm more interested in why he seemed to be soft defending Tammy and focusing on things not related to this game specifically. Granted I brought up Thor and other people's posts, but that was to illustrate why I was looking into something here.

@MOI: V/LA until Sunday the 13th.

Townreading Inf for his early play, don't see the scum motivation in his play. I think he's immediately scumhunting and trying to get the game going.

VOTE: kraska

Is this an RVS vote? You haven't participated yet, say you like Infinity, and then randomly vote kraska. If it's not, please give some explanation.

I thought and still think this was a good post.

Shadow could be more active (then again the same could be said of me) but at this point I'm not going to commit to wagoning him. He hasn't made any specific slip to make me scumread him yet.

Then came his wall in 439, of which I noticed a very fake-sounding read on nacho that seemed to be an attempt to appease and buddy him. Specifically, the whole idea of "nacho came up with this spot on point against me which looks town to me" which he mentioned a couple times seems very fake. Also, wisdom pointed out something I forgot to mention in 449 that adds to the fakeness of the nacho read. Something else that was going on in my head at the time was the realization that I've seen scum play very sloppily before at least a couple times so sloppy/bad reasoning shouldn't really equal town in my mind.

I do not have a scumread besides wraith at this point.

I hope we're done with this conversation, I'm tired of defending myself. If you still have a lot of issues with this we might have to leave it at that.

[Infinity 324]

My gut says bulbazak might be scum. But maybe that's because he fits the somewhat outdated stereotype of cautious wallposting lots of questions scum.

[Wraith]

I'm at the level of depression right now that I'm probably just going to prodge at best.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

Cakez: I didnt forget about you.
My scum read on bulba is hard to explain because some of it is gut and impressions I get when I read his post.

Example his his dump of thoughts here say very little about shadow.
He gave a point about issues with wisdom, reads fillerish and wraith fluff question.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Wraith/shadow/Leon is my first attempt at a guess

Was there something specific dropped by Lion-O? Because I just have him as null.

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

I can see where you're coming from here, but I fully agree with Cakez. An agreeable Wisdom definitely set off some red flags. His later play reminded me of my first game with him, though, but that's an anomaly when it comes to town Wisdom. Having been burnt by friendly Wisdom before, I fully understand the uneasy approach.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Mr Scruffy says "It was time to get serious."

Why couldn't you do that while speaking for your cat?

@Wisdom: Where'd the switch from Wraith to Shadow come from?

I see a bit of buddying when a player agrees with another. He also hasn't a dress Wisdom directly or pushed Wisdom other then using buzz words like red flag and feeling.
I also dont get the issue from wis switch to wraith when bulba was scum reading wraith too.
So unless bulba thinks Wisdom is ultimate bussed man the scum read and concern about Wisdom looks manufactured.

Thanks for this response
I see where you're coming from but I don't think it's AI for Bulbazak with what I remember from mafiaception (he made these kind of fluffy-ish posts as town there pretty consistently)

I think scum!wisdom tries to play more friendly and less aggressive in this playerlist.

Why? Who in the playerlist is he playing around that would expect him to play more friendly? Who do you think it would help him to be "friendlier" to? I think that you're making an assertion about his meta that you can't back up. Please stop, take a step back, don't let all of the other reads that you have wander into the abyss just because this scumread exists.

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

i find it disturbing you never answered the question legitimately

The question that you're looking for an answer to is "why are you playing differently this game", correct? Why is it scummy to play differently if he's shown he can be aggressive as town as well?

See above

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

Frustration with Cakez's argument specifically, right?
I agree that it's a silly argument in general, but I don't think it's exactly out of range of his town game. It is for reasons like this why I'd like him to focus on other reads; I think he's stubborn letting go of reads sometimes and whenever he's tunneling he's not as good of a player as when he's not.

If Wisdom showed even an ounce of interest in working with me then maybe I'd reconsider. But instead he's just being all stubborn which is p scummy.

What I don't think is silly is his concerns about Wisdom not being aggressive and whether or not the meta change means scum. I've seen aggressive and subdued Wisdom as scum though so I don't think that the change definitely means he's scum as I can think of a few town reasons for someone to change their approach, and there's no reason for him not to be aggressive in this situation as it would be what a good many of us would expect.

I was a bit weirded out by him not posting his quote stripes when he first entered though, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in arguments that he didn't explain a scum read because he couldn't at that time.

Cakez starting out with a reasonable point and then letting it get completely out of hand is pretty much what happened in Real Folks Blues and it's what I'm afraid of it happening here.

don't mention that game pls

I'm at the level of depression right now that I'm probably just going to prodge at best.

/hug

[farside22]

First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.

Ok, I'm glad you're willing to act differently. I'm sorry for insulting your play, I hope we can have more productive discussions in the future.

Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.

Here's where I was defending wraith:

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Yes, "town lean" is in the sentence "I like

d

infinity for town-lean". I don't see how that's relevant. And then he pointed out the stuff in his next post, which was 3 posts later I believe. I don't see the issue.

I voted him because...he commented on a bunch of stuff without trying to scumhunt, but his latest post made me feel a little better in that regard.

But I'm not saying he's town and a wagon on him is as good as any (except maybe cakez). So *shrug*

At first i was just trying to correct a misconception. I also said I wasn't sure I liked the wagon, but ok I'll admit that statement wasn't really necessary for a null read.

The next post I continued to try to correct the misconception, and also disclaimed that my intent wasn't to convince you that he's town. I just wanted to make sure you got your facts right. Does that explain that?

Okay I see where things went awry.
As I stated prior he said he had an issue with your post 10 which reads as a contradiction to saying he had a young lean early. I think prior to that you made maybe 2 other post. Which is just RVS stuff.
As for cakez.....idk. the meta stuff on Wisdom is meh to me, mostly because he's not saying where this matches scum Wisdom.
I don't recall Wisdom being super aggressive at the start in Walking dead mafia, so it's kind of where I disagree with cakez view on wisdom's playstyle

[Nachomamma8]

Everything within me is screaming that this is Wisdom's scum game. However, Nacho's acting like it isn't, and there are indicators that it could just be Wisdom playing like he did in my very first game on site. I would like to pick Nacho's brain about it, because my gut is telling me that I'm just wanting to believe the best here and that this game is that easy and that we can all be friends. But at the same time, I'm starting to get a sinking feeling, and there's a bit of paranoia now starting to resurface.

I mean I don't deny that I was paranoid of Wisdom earlier because he was laid back. But being laid back doesn't necessarily mean he's scum just like being aggressive doesn't mean that he's town; need a more substantial read than "he's playing different to my usual!".

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

Being aggressive doesn't mean that you're trying to roll over a town, it means that you're being active and you're pushing things stubbornly - in other words, all things that the people you noted are expected, meaning the most intuitive thing for Wisdom as scum is... to pretend like he's town. You're saying that being friendly somehow gives him an advantage when playing against stronger players even though he's expected is to be aggressive - what advantage is that, exactly?