Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Cakez starting out with a reasonable point and then letting it get completely out of hand is pretty much what happened in Real Folks Blues and it's what I'm afraid of it happening here.In post 406, Tammy wrote:What I don't think is silly is his concerns about Wisdom not being aggressive and whether or not the meta change means scum. I've seen aggressive and subdued Wisdom as scum though so I don't think that the change definitely means he's scum as I can think of a few town reasons for someone to change their approach, and there's no reason for him not to be aggressive in this situation as it would be what a good many of us would expect.
I was a bit weirded out by him not posting his quote stripes when he first entered though, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in arguments that he didn't explain a scum read because he couldn't at that time.
What usually happens (at least with me) is people see something that bothers them and then when they make the actual wall they end up finding more to talk about. I don't think that it's particularly alignment indicative; I agree that he probably had at least a reason in mind when he made that vote, though."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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Wisdom Of the One
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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This is probably my same read; I think there are a lot of nitpicky posts/posts I disagree with/posts that bother me but a lot of the posts he makes on how he feels on gamestate and a lot of the point he makes as an aside looks town and those aren't posts that he's been making as scum. I also like the way that he kind of feels like he's lost, like he's pushing a lot of different angles and backing down from them pretty easily; I'd his scum play to be more straightforward as in laying down a plan and following it, especially based on his responses about farside looking town because her initial push was "too sloppy" or Wisdom's response being town because he "could have given a better response if scum".In post 406, Tammy wrote:Nacho - Not sure what to think about Infinity yet. I don't thing the early town reads due to him continuing on his "tryhard" style in the face of being called out by wisdom all that strong when he didn't even realize he was being called out. There are a few posts that I like. I like him being like I'm playing shitty right now because I haven't slept and it's day one where I struggle because I empathize with that type of sentiment. I don't know if you read the maze prerestart, but early game infinity scum was tryhardy and a bit nitpicky. He did interact and distance with his partner quite a bit, and then he jumped off of his partner to scum read me mostly because my opening post was forced. Anyway our interaction felt a little odd, and I felt like he had an agenda. It wasn't even close to conclusive and I'm bummed we restarted because now I don't know if I'd have gotten that read right. But this is a lot of words to say some of his posts don't give me that same feel. From that game I do think he has a bit of a nitpicky type of scum game (maybe?) and I don't get the sense that he'd change his approach just because someone mentioned it, especially when he just didn't notice it. Some of his posts feel sticky, but then some feel fluid and I like those."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I was going to mention that I was starting get get paranoid on him because he hasn't been around until I remember that he said he wouldn't be around on weekends >.>In post 406, Tammy wrote:Kraska is most likely just town. I also think that Nacho and I are finally town together again (RIGHT NOW :p). Other town reads on Pere and Kagami. (I do feel weird with such a decent town read on Pere so early. Sometimes day one I lean town, but don't feel this decent. The last time I did, he was an SK so every time I get a good read on Pere early I think he might be an SK and it freaks me out, but I don't think there's an SK this game, so I just think I have a weird early decent town read on Pere.)
I agree that kraska feels town but I still would like for her to flesh out what she was thinking about Kagami a little more and starts pushing for things a little more aggressively; she's definitely capable of it (as I've found while looking over games that Giga linked to me) while as scum she's definitely more likely to keep her head in the sand for a while."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Why were Cakez and Wisdom the two people that you were focused on?In post 424, Wraith wrote:Firstly, it's somewhat of a good sign to me that both Wisdom and SirCakez both scumread him. It's a little early in the game though to present doubts on that front for fear of WIFOM.
Is the argument that you're making here is that one of those two are likely to be scum and so it's not likely that either would be bussing at this stage or...?
Why did you like 147?
I don't think Shadow's activity is indicative of much considering the V/LA."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Also it's kind of funky how you talk about how semantic arguments are a scumtell to you but then you talk about them like it's just a playstyle you don't like but that's just a minor niggle."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Wasn't intentional; I was distracted when posting yesterday.In post 429, Bulbazak wrote:@Nacho: Why are you ignoring me?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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this is a better way to put it yeahIn post 434, Wisdom wrote:wraith's post re:shaddow is weird
You feel like hes going to be forcing a scumread on him when it begins but by the end hes actually doing the "i dont understand why this is being voted" thing
I dont know what to think here
I don't quite have the time to go through Wraith's post right this second, but I will later; some things are questionable (what Wisdom pointed out) but most of it looked fine.
For what it's worth, I agree with this point; I don't really agree that buddying is the scumtell that Infinity made it out to be. I don't think it's as reasonable to expect him to remember whether you had used pre-flip associatives last game you played together or not (not only do I not remember what the last game we played together was, I'm not sure whether you used pre-flip associatives in it or not).In post 473, farside22 wrote:That's some quick turn around there.
Interested in seeing Wraith's responses to the points that Tammy brought up."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Was he town or scum? And how do his actions in that game compare to this game, and does that contribute to your read?In post 433, Infinity 324 wrote:I've played one game with him
Lion-O declared he was V/LA in his one post, and I was just very busy. "Hardcore lurking" makes it sound like we were purposefully avoiding the game, when activity issues are the most likely reason and are inherently unscummy.In post 439, Wraith wrote: • The hardcore lurking by Leonshade and Bulbazak is very annoying
Fair enough, but I think I had rough spots of activity in that game too, although they were probably not at the beginning of the game. I have a tendency to sometimes miss a day or two and then have to catch up. Heck, in my last game, I lost track of time and got prodded twice for not posting for like 5 days.In post 441, SirCakez wrote: I was going off the one game I can remember seeing your play (Mafiaception) where you were pretty active as town
But I don't think I've seen your scum game so that's moot anyway
Then why don't you explain your thought process?In post 444, Wisdom wrote:
bad for the same reason as aboveIn post 439, Wraith wrote:• How Wisdom is “leaning town” on Bulbazak in #377 after only two posts by the latter player is puzzling. In #379 Wisdom posts in reads list and has Leonshade as “leaning scum” – how he leans scum for Leon (who has one post) and leans town for Bulba (who had two posts at that point) seems really contradictory
you're pretending to be the judge of how I am getting my reads when you are not in my mind and you don't think like I do
Then why did you vote for Wraith?In post 484, Kagami wrote:I don't dislike the wall at all, except perhaps for wisdoms point,which isn't horribly damning
I was paranoid of you for awhile after Capcom. And sometimes, you'd have a rough start and that would contribute to my read of you. Normally it settles out after awhile, but it was very easy to get a bead on you this game.In post 490, Tammy wrote:Bulba - Nope, there's nothing to be suspicious of. It's just the last several games we've played together you've been suspicious of me for some reason or another.
Everything within me is screaming that this is Wisdom's scum game. However, Nacho's acting like it isn't, and there are indicators that it could just be Wisdom playing like he did in my very first game on site. I would like to pick Nacho's brain about it, because my gut is telling me that I'm just wanting to believe the best here and that this gameIn post 490, Tammy wrote: Do you always tend to work with nacho or is wanting his feedback something new you're trying for this game?isthat easy and that we can all be friends. But at the same time, I'm starting to get a sinking feeling, and there's a bit of paranoia now starting to resurface.
Btw, I'm also starting to reconsider my initial read on Wraith. He's starting to have some much better posts, and I think he may be town here.
Anyway, going to be gone for the rest of today. I'll pick this up when I get back.
On to page 21.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Wisdom Of the One
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I did? Is there a read I haven't explained?In post 560, Bulbazak wrote:Then why don't you explain your thought process?-
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Wisdom Of the One
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Elaborate please because I'm starting to not buy itIn post 560, Bulbazak wrote:Everything within me is screaming that this is Wisdom's scum game.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.
When I saw infinity swap from first thought was shit, is wraith being quick lynched by scum? Then I wondered if infinity maybe bussing after I didn't get a response about why he was defending wraith.In post 535, Tammy wrote:Although I did want the question of what infinity gains by making such a quick turn around as scum answered to.
Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.
Anyways my scum list look like this:
Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Wisdom Of the One
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how do you feel about shaddow?In post 563, farside22 wrote:Anyways my scum list look like this:
Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)
if you replaced infinity with him we'd agree.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Here is my take away on infinity.In post 554, Nachomamma8 wrote:
This is probably my same read; I think there are a lot of nitpicky posts/posts I disagree with/posts that bother me but a lot of the posts he makes on how he feels on gamestate and a lot of the point he makes as an aside looks town and those aren't posts that he's been making as scum. I also like the way that he kind of feels like he's lost, like he's pushing a lot of different angles and backing down from them pretty easily; I'd his scum play to be more straightforward as in laying down a plan and following it, especially based on his responses about farside looking town because her initial push was "too sloppy" or Wisdom's response being town because he "could have given a better response if scum".In post 406, Tammy wrote:Nacho - Not sure what to think about Infinity yet. I don't thing the early town reads due to him continuing on his "tryhard" style in the face of being called out by wisdom all that strong when he didn't even realize he was being called out. There are a few posts that I like. I like him being like I'm playing shitty right now because I haven't slept and it's day one where I struggle because I empathize with that type of sentiment. I don't know if you read the maze prerestart, but early game infinity scum was tryhardy and a bit nitpicky. He did interact and distance with his partner quite a bit, and then he jumped off of his partner to scum read me mostly because my opening post was forced. Anyway our interaction felt a little odd, and I felt like he had an agenda. It wasn't even close to conclusive and I'm bummed we restarted because now I don't know if I'd have gotten that read right. But this is a lot of words to say some of his posts don't give me that same feel. From that game I do think he has a bit of a nitpicky type of scum game (maybe?) and I don't get the sense that he'd change his approach just because someone mentioned it, especially when he just didn't notice it. Some of his posts feel sticky, but then some feel fluid and I like those.
He got caught with the try hard, he went a different way.
He got caught with his weak read and now is scrabbling.
The one ticking point i have against Kraska is that I only know of what scum read she has and she seems to being doing little else.In post 555, Nachomamma8 wrote:
I was going to mention that I was starting get get paranoid on him because he hasn't been around until I remember that he said he wouldn't be around on weekends >.>In post 406, Tammy wrote:Kraska is most likely just town. I also think that Nacho and I are finally town together again (RIGHT NOW :p). Other town reads on Pere and Kagami. (I do feel weird with such a decent town read on Pere so early. Sometimes day one I lean town, but don't feel this decent. The last time I did, he was an SK so every time I get a good read on Pere early I think he might be an SK and it freaks me out, but I don't think there's an SK this game, so I just think I have a weird early decent town read on Pere.)
I agree that kraska feels town but I still would like for her to flesh out what she was thinking about Kagami a little more and starts pushing for things a little more aggressively; she's definitely capable of it (as I've found while looking over games that Giga linked to me) while as scum she's definitely more likely to keep her head in the sand for a while.
This is when you have a pre-association moment and go, farside you need to seek help.In post 564, Wisdom wrote:
how do you feel about shaddow?In post 563, farside22 wrote:Anyways my scum list look like this:
Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)
if you replaced infinity with him we'd agree.
If bulba is scum I don't see him voting his scum buddy and standing on that as the first vote. If you look at the post from Bulba he hasn't even really pushed his scum read on anyone but you.
For me to drop infinity off my list I need him to explain his views from start of the game about wraith to this point currently and what his scum reads are in full.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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He was town, and he was more aggressive. But I don't like making meta reads off of one gameIn post 560, Bulbazak wrote:
Was he town or scum? And how do his actions in that game compare to this game, and does that contribute to your read?In post 433, Infinity 324 wrote:I've played one game with him-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Ok, I'm glad you're willing to act differently. I'm sorry for insulting your play, I hope we can have more productive discussions in the future.In post 563, farside22 wrote:First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.
Here's where I was defending wraith:Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.
In post 349, Infinity 324 wrote:
No he wasn't @farsideIn post 218, Wraith wrote:I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.
Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.
At first i was just trying to correct a misconception. I also said I wasn't sure I liked the wagon, but ok I'll admit that statement wasn't really necessary for a null read.In post 353, Infinity 324 wrote:Yes, "town lean" is in the sentence "I likedinfinity for town-lean". I don't see how that's relevant. And then he pointed out the stuff in his next post, which was 3 posts later I believe. I don't see the issue.
I voted him because...he commented on a bunch of stuff without trying to scumhunt, but his latest post made me feel a little better in that regard.
But I'm not saying he's town and a wagon on him is as good as any (except maybe cakez). So *shrug*
The next post I continued to try to correct the misconception, and also disclaimed that my intent wasn't to convince you that he's town. I just wanted to make sure you got your facts right. Does that explain that?-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Ok, you got it....In post 565, farside22 wrote:For me to drop infinity off my list I need him to explain his views from start of the game about wraith to this point currently and what his scum reads are in full.
At the start of the game I voted wraith because of just fluffposting, I don't consider it a super strong tell but it was my best bet at that point.
Spoiler: fluff
Then came the next stage of wraith's posting. He started at least trying to look like he's scumhunting and gave me the immediate vibes of "so bad it's town", like he wasn't trying to look good. So I guess that made up for his earlier stuff in my mind.
Spoiler: other shit
Then came his wall in 439, of which I noticed a very fake-sounding read on nacho that seemed to be an attempt to appease and buddy him. Specifically, the whole idea of "nacho came up with this spot on point against me which looks town to me" which he mentioned a couple times seems very fake. Also, wisdom pointed out something I forgot to mention in 449 that adds to the fakeness of the nacho read. Something else that was going on in my head at the time was the realization that I've seen scum play very sloppily before at least a couple times so sloppy/bad reasoning shouldn't really equal town in my mind.
I do not have a scumread besides wraith at this point.
I hope we're done with this conversation, I'm tired of defending myself. If you still have a lot of issues with this we might have to leave it at that.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I'm at the level of depression right now that I'm probably just going to prodge at best.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
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SirCakez he/himIs A Liehe/him
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Spoiler:Brian Skies - "I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup."
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Get to know a Cakez!-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Okay I see where things went awry.In post 568, Infinity 324 wrote:
Ok, I'm glad you're willing to act differently. I'm sorry for insulting your play, I hope we can have more productive discussions in the future.In post 563, farside22 wrote:First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.
Here's where I was defending wraith:Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.
In post 349, Infinity 324 wrote:
No he wasn't @farsideIn post 218, Wraith wrote:I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.
Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.
At first i was just trying to correct a misconception. I also said I wasn't sure I liked the wagon, but ok I'll admit that statement wasn't really necessary for a null read.In post 353, Infinity 324 wrote:Yes, "town lean" is in the sentence "I likedinfinity for town-lean". I don't see how that's relevant. And then he pointed out the stuff in his next post, which was 3 posts later I believe. I don't see the issue.
I voted him because...he commented on a bunch of stuff without trying to scumhunt, but his latest post made me feel a little better in that regard.
But I'm not saying he's town and a wagon on him is as good as any (except maybe cakez). So *shrug*
The next post I continued to try to correct the misconception, and also disclaimed that my intent wasn't to convince you that he's town. I just wanted to make sure you got your facts right. Does that explain that?
As I stated prior he said he had an issue with your post 10 which reads as a contradiction to saying he had a young lean early. I think prior to that you made maybe 2 other post. Which is just RVS stuff.
As for cakez.....idk. the meta stuff on Wisdom is meh to me, mostly because he's not saying where this matches scum Wisdom.
I don't recall Wisdom being super aggressive at the start in Walking dead mafia, so it's kind of where I disagree with cakez view on wisdom's playstyleSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I mean I don't deny that I was paranoid of Wisdom earlier because he was laid back. But being laid back doesn't necessarily mean he's scum just like being aggressive doesn't mean that he's town; need a more substantial read than "he's playing different to my usual!".In post 560, Bulbazak wrote:Everything within me is screaming that this is Wisdom's scum game. However, Nacho's acting like it isn't, and there are indicators that it could just be Wisdom playing like he did in my very first game on site. I would like to pick Nacho's brain about it, because my gut is telling me that I'm just wanting to believe the best here and that this game is that easy and that we can all be friends. But at the same time, I'm starting to get a sinking feeling, and there's a bit of paranoia now starting to resurface.
Being aggressive doesn't mean that you're trying to roll over a town, it means that you're being active and you're pushing things stubbornly - in other words, all things that the people you noted are expected, meaning the most intuitive thing for Wisdom as scum is... to pretend like he's town. You're saying that being friendly somehow gives him an advantage when playing against stronger players even though he's expected is to be aggressive - what advantage is that, exactly?In post 572, SirCakez wrote:Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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