Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[Tammy]

Why?

And why am I null instead of a scumread when you said multiple times you think I'm scummy?

Because I question the motive a player might have to get momentum on a wagon based on pure RVS. I don't see much reason for it.

Is this about the nacho rvs wagon?

Also have you played with nacho before?

[Tammy]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

What does this mean about wraith's post? I'm not sure how to interpret it

I didn't like the post he made and I'm having an internal struggle trying to decipher his alignment and how to read him.

[Tammy]

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

How is defending someone a particular quality of one's scum game only?

Do you always remember how town plays when you've played against them as scum? Or how they play in general? And why is Infinity asking if you make pre-flip associations a trait of him being scum?

In general, I think the arguments that someone turned around their read too quickly are pretty silly. Even if I'm leaning town on someone and they make a post that makes me question that, I'm not going to hold on to a read I had even if it's made 30 seconds before.

What does Infinity gain by making such a quick turnaround as scum?

[Tammy]

Oops sorry for spamming.

I'm liking infinity for town more than I was before, and the scum reads there for the reasons they are are very odd. I like his interaction with Farside, and there's a part of me that thinks that farside is pushing this thing harder than she believes in order to try to get a read or something. Part of this comes from farside accusing Infinity of throwing shade on her when he told her to engage with him, and the reasons she feels so sold on the read are very flimsy and not even alignment indicative. Not sure what to make on Farside from it, part of me thinks if she were scum she'd have something stronger there.

I'm on the fence with pretty much everyone else, oh except I think I like Cakez more than I did. If Wisdom is scum then cakez and probably bulbazack look better for it, not sure what to think about Wraith. If I get a chance, I'll go back and look at tarot card because I think I remember there being some discussion of Wisdom's behavior as scum. And in that game he did have a pretty noticeable meta change, which he wrote off as being him burnt out and needing a break. (I believe he probably was burnt out and needed a break.)

Anyway, some things bother about Wraith and I have a theory growing but it might be silly and I want to see Wraith respond to some things.

[Wisdom]

there's a part of me that thinks that farside is pushing this thing harder than she believes in order to try to get a read or something.

Thats what i think cakez is doing with me

[Tammy]

Oh one thing that I didn't like about the Wraith post that I aaaaaah is that he points out that what he doesn't like about shadowwez is the semantic thing and how that is one behavior that he finds more likely to come from scum (which suggests that he has a particular scum tell) but then he looks at his next post and likes it (the next post being a rather benign post that didn't have anything wonderful to it) and then declares that he hasn't made a slip yet.

If he can see a post which has what amounts to a scum tell or more likely scum behavior in it, and then read the next post and go gee I like this post, why was he scum reading Wisdom at the start of the game for a 180?

[Tammy]

there's a part of me that thinks that farside is pushing this thing harder than she believes in order to try to get a read or something.

Thats what i think cakez is doing with me

After watching cakez tunnel on nacho for the past couple games they've played together, I think cakez just believes in his scum read.

[Wisdom]

I dont think he really believes in it. Weve played a lot where he should know better than to think he can read me by a simple playstyle change. I think hes just trying to get reactions from me or otherwise.

[Wisdom]

Also agreeing with your post about Wraith. Thats basically what i was trying to say in 434.

[SirCakez]

your reason for scumreading me is still bad

Why? We argued over this two or so pages ago and you ended up dropping the discussion.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho are you around? I could just give an initial read dump, but I don't want to, and I just want to try to bounce some stuff off you first.

This is a pretty late response, but I'm around to talk about things now! What were you thinking?

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

Wisdom looks fine so far. I agree that he does seem less aggressive than usual, but the game's still young and it's not like Wisdom is completely incapable of being calm as town. I've liked the reads that he's put out, and, for the most part, I agree with his reasons for doing so. I also liked his 492 even though I'm not necessarily sure that it's indicative of him being town. Was there anything that bothered you in particular about him?

[farside22]

I don't need to engage with you. You're the one calling me scum. It's your responsibility to engage with me and ask questions and figure out if your scumread is correct.

Your implication that my "defense" of wraith in this game is similar to my defense of mm in poker mafia is laughable. I defend town and sometimes scum as both alignments. And as I said before, I can't be fucked to remember your specific actions from a game that ended months ago. You seem to take a large amount of issue with me asking a question with respect to that for some reason.

Great, we have a question! Although, if you looked at the post where I voted, it would answer your question completely. When I'm null on someone before, and they do something scummy, well then they might just turn into a scumread.

Let's take this one step at a time.

1) I don't know players to go hmmm does x do something like this typically without it meaning there is some suspicion of the player for doing it and not just being curious.
2) you went from voting wraith, without a reason, to unvoting him and voting someone esle. Then when called out about this by me, you vote for the dude again.
Tell me how I should say that looks fucking natural?
3) if I have to search your meta to find out how well you actual remember players actions I will.
That's my only warning.

For now.

VOTE: wraith

[farside22]

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

How is defending someone a particular quality of one's scum game only?

Do you always remember how town plays when you've played against them as scum? Or how they play in general? And why is Infinity asking if you make pre-flip associations a trait of him being scum?

In general, I think the arguments that someone turned around their read too quickly are pretty silly. Even if I'm leaning town on someone and they make a post that makes me question that, I'm not going to hold on to a read I had even if it's made 30 seconds before.

What does Infinity gain by making such a quick turnaround as scum?

Well hello miss fluff questions.
I'm going to call you scum for these fluffy questions since 3 of them are logical, which I know you are a very logical person.
2 give you nothing towards my alignment.
But to humor you here is a response.
1) I've played with infinity a few times. Town read defense, yes, null read defense, no.
That makes no sense, if it does to you tell me why?
2) recent games absolutely. A game months ago, more likely then not, a year ago, no.
3) infinity played with me before. I saw the question as fake.

[kraska77]

I don't see how any of these are fluff questions...........

[Wisdom]

they're theory questions is what she meant

[Infinity 324]

Must...resist...continuing...dumb...argument

[Wisdom]

do resist it

[farside22]

Cakez: I didnt forget about you.
My scum read on bulba is hard to explain because some of it is gut and impressions I get when I read his post.

Example his his dump of thoughts here say very little about shadow.
He gave a point about issues with wisdom, reads fillerish and wraith fluff question.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Wraith/shadow/Leon is my first attempt at a guess

Was there something specific dropped by Lion-O? Because I just have him as null.

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

I can see where you're coming from here, but I fully agree with Cakez. An agreeable Wisdom definitely set off some red flags. His later play reminded me of my first game with him, though, but that's an anomaly when it comes to town Wisdom. Having been burnt by friendly Wisdom before, I fully understand the uneasy approach.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Mr Scruffy says "It was time to get serious."

Why couldn't you do that while speaking for your cat?

@Wisdom: Where'd the switch from Wraith to Shadow come from?

I see a bit of buddying when a player agrees with another. He also hasn't a dress Wisdom directly or pushed Wisdom other then using buzz words like red flag and feeling.
I also dont get the issue from wis switch to wraith when bulba was scum reading wraith too.
So unless bulba thinks Wisdom is ultimate bussed man the scum read and concern about Wisdom looks manufactured.

[farside22]

I don't see how any of these are fluff questions...........

Ill ask you questions that already have been explained in the game.
Sound good?

[farside22]

Must...resist...continuing...dumb...argument

That super nice of you.

[Tammy]

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

How is defending someone a particular quality of one's scum game only?

Do you always remember how town plays when you've played against them as scum? Or how they play in general? And why is Infinity asking if you make pre-flip associations a trait of him being scum?

In general, I think the arguments that someone turned around their read too quickly are pretty silly. Even if I'm leaning town on someone and they make a post that makes me question that, I'm not going to hold on to a read I had even if it's made 30 seconds before.

What does Infinity gain by making such a quick turnaround as scum?

Well hello miss fluff questions.
I'm going to call you scum for these fluffy questions since 3 of them are logical, which I know you are a very logical person.
2 give you nothing towards my alignment.
But to humor you here is a response.
1) I've played with infinity a few times. Town read defense, yes, null read defense, no.
That makes no sense, if it does to you tell me why?
2) recent games absolutely. A game months ago, more likely then not, a year ago, no.
3) infinity played with me before. I saw the question as fake.

Did you suck on a lemon before you started posting.

And feel free calling me miss fluff, but make sure you get it right as its miss town fluff, and I'll call you ms posturey because you feel like you're posturing to me.

You're citing one scum and going aha you defended someone there, you're defending someone here, see the resemblance cause I do.

I don't think that is a conclusion you actually hold or think is valid. If there is some resemblance feel free to explain why.

See the thing is when I'm scum, I don't remember every detail about how they play, and when I haven't played a lot I don't remember. Some people I don't even remember playing with or very little about them.

I don't think that expecting a player to remember a small detail about their play is valid, and I'm surprised you do.

[Nachomamma8]

Must...resist...continuing...dumb...argument

always better to just let it go as opposed to just comment that you're letting it go

[farside22]

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

How is defending someone a particular quality of one's scum game only?

Do you always remember how town plays when you've played against them as scum? Or how they play in general? And why is Infinity asking if you make pre-flip associations a trait of him being scum?

In general, I think the arguments that someone turned around their read too quickly are pretty silly. Even if I'm leaning town on someone and they make a post that makes me question that, I'm not going to hold on to a read I had even if it's made 30 seconds before.

What does Infinity gain by making such a quick turnaround as scum?

Well hello miss fluff questions.
I'm going to call you scum for these fluffy questions since 3 of them are logical, which I know you are a very logical person.
2 give you nothing towards my alignment.
But to humor you here is a response.
1) I've played with infinity a few times. Town read defense, yes, null read defense, no.
That makes no sense, if it does to you tell me why?
2) recent games absolutely. A game months ago, more likely then not, a year ago, no.
3) infinity played with me before. I saw the question as fake.

Did you suck on a lemon before you started posting.

And feel free calling me miss fluff, but make sure you get it right as its miss town fluff, and I'll call you ms posturey because you feel like you're posturing to me.

You're citing one scum and going aha you defended someone there, you're defending someone here, see the resemblance cause I do.

I don't think that is a conclusion you actually hold or think is valid. If there is some resemblance feel free to explain why.

See the thing is when I'm scum, I don't remember every detail about how they play, and when I haven't played a lot I don't remember. Some people I don't even remember playing with or very little about them.

I don't think that expecting a player to remember a small detail about their play is valid, and I'm surprised you do.

When it comes to how I play and spam the game, it's not a small detail.
Also fasinating enough there is a thing called a search function, where you can read a players meta for yo7rself.
Did you know that?
Did you ask or look to see if this is typical of inifinity or myself or did you decide to come in and just post things that make you look active?
Because that's how your questions appear.
For a p9int of refernce that doesn't include Infinity scum game, we played princess bride mafia and he didn't call a player scummy and the defend them in that game if it helps.
So since you feel he is right, why don't you explain why you think town would be calling a player scummy, yet defend them when a wagon appears?

[farside22]

Damn my small phone keyboard