So, I wish when we were following Family Mafia, I had asked Empire what he uses to read Cakez with because we had a slight disagreement on read there and he said that in every game he'd followed with Cakez in it, he'd gotten the read right. I don't think the shallowness of his read is very alignment indicative. I know that he has some rather rigid scum tells that he stands by, and when I was skimming yesterday I thought for sure it was Cakez who scum read Wisdom for the 180 on a read, which is something I was concerned about him early game in musical mafia, but it wasn't so never mind that. I think his argument that town!Wisdom wouldn't think that two scum jumped on him for the same silly reasoning is silly because a) I don't think it's unheard of. I've had several scum jump on me early game for terrible silly reasons and literally be the only people scumreading me before. It's possible and b) it was an answer to a quesstion and he can think the two of them are independently scummy anyway.
What I don't think is silly is his concerns about Wisdom not being aggressive and whether or not the meta change means scum. I've seen aggressive and subdued Wisdom as scum though so I don't think that the change definitely means he's scum as I can think of a few town reasons for someone to change their approach, and there's no reason for him not to be aggressive in this situation as it would be what a good many of us would expect.
I was a bit weirded out by him not posting his quote stripes when he first entered though, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in arguments that he didn't explain a scum read because he couldn't at that time.
I also was concerned about Bulbazack's lack of quote stripe response to everything in the thread. I was kind of expecting a bit of suspicion thrown my way from bulba but I didn't even get a mention :p
Nacho - Not sure what to think about Infinity yet. I don't thing the early town reads due to him continuing on his "tryhard" style in the face of being called out by wisdom all that strong when he didn't even realize he was being called out. There are a few posts that I like. I like him being like I'm playing shitty right now because I haven't slept and it's day one where I struggle because I empathize with that type of sentiment. I don't know if you read the maze prerestart, but early game infinity scum was tryhardy and a bit nitpicky. He did interact and distance with his partner quite a bit, and then he jumped off of his partner to scum read me mostly because my opening post was forced. Anyway our interaction felt a little odd, and I felt like he had an agenda. It wasn't even close to conclusive and I'm bummed we restarted because now I don't know if I'd have gotten that read right. But this is a lot of words to say some of his posts don't give me that same feel. From that game I do think he has a bit of a nitpicky type of scum game (maybe?) and I don't get the sense that he'd change his approach just because someone mentioned it, especially when he just didn't notice it. Some of his posts feel sticky, but then some feel fluid and I like those.
Kraska is most likely just town. I also think that Nacho and I are finally town together again (RIGHT NOW :p). Other town reads on Pere and Kagami. (I do feel weird with such a decent town read on Pere so early. Sometimes day one I lean town, but don't feel this decent. The last time I did, he was an SK so every time I get a good read on Pere early I think he might be an SK and it freaks me out, but I don't think there's an SK this game, so I just think I have a weird early decent town read on Pere.)
Everyone else is varying shades of just not sure right now, but I feel pretty good about having some early town reads. I feel like it's been a while since I've gotten town reads early, and even if some of these are wrong I'm still happy about that.
I understand the scum reads on Wraith, but I was going to vote shaddowez until I realized I couldn't be the cool kid to start that wagon. So, I'm just gonna stick on Nacho for a while so you guys can question me about why it's there and when I'm going to change it because it's always fun when that happens.
Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.
He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.
I think town would be approaching it differently.
If Wisdom had actually worked with me when I was questioning him maybe I could buy he was doing it intentionally to mess with his meta.
Instead he basically handwaved so yeah I think he's scum who was bsing
In post 365, Infinity 324 wrote:If you're actually concerned about wisdom not trying to appease you, why don't you express doubts? Or question him on other things?
"He doesn't respond to useless questions"
In post 366, Infinity 324 wrote:Not to mention coming in with a single scumread and making little effort to sort anyone else is shitty play from town and more likely to come from scum.
I like to focus my scumreads
And I have developed other reads, I'm just not making them pronounced (I shared some of them in a previous post)
In post 308, SirCakez wrote:It was the 6th page when I made the vote. Were you expecting a large case? His ISO was like 10 posts at that point.
I'm inclined to think that you simply didn't have a reason you were able/willing to articulate at 291.
Why would I vote him if I didn't have reasoning (the game was obviously out of RVS)?
In post 397, Infinity 324 wrote:My shitty play so far is really just because I haven't gotten enough sleep and because I often struggle on d1.
I don't see the gears turning in cakez's head. I can see how he would be uneasy with wisdom changing up his style, but making a judgement so early without trying to figure him out is somewhat scummy imo.
I have been trying to figure out Wisdom ffs
Look at the convos I've been having with him
In post 401, farside22 wrote:Cakez: why the focus only on Wisdom? Do you think I'm playing my typical way?
See above and yes
I don't think I've ever seen one of your scum games actually.
Also reads update
My Bulba not being here concerns have gone away for obvious reasons, he's a townlean now
Wraith is scummy with his cruddy "180 case" on Wisdom and his lack of legitimate analysis, but I don't think Wisdom and him are be scum together (the instant hop on to Wisdom and Wisdom's semi-OMGUS in response doesn't look like buddy-buddy interactions) so I'll hold off there for now.
And Shadow is a POE scumread for me because I've seen nothing townie from him, plus I think Wisdom's push there could be bussing easily (yes I'm POEing this early deal with it, I have a ton of townreads)
me refusing to answer means im scum? because what stopped me from just telling you "im messing up with my meta" or any other bullshit answer if i was scum?
I do too. I have more town leaning reads in my list of unsure than not and thought earlier this is going to be an easy lovely game then got paranoid because it's rarely ever that easy.
I don't even care. The fact that I'm getting town reads makes me so happy because it means I'm trusting again. I went on a hell of a scum streak and the result was that I've had a really hard time feeling good about town reads in the few town games I've gotten. Feeling paranoid about literally everyone in a game feels a hell of a lot worse than having a town read or two wrong on day one.
no, it just struck me as cute and extremely genuine - I don't think that it's the type of thing that you would randomly come up with as scum and it made me really glad to see that you were in a really good place with this game so far.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
Firstly, it's somewhat of a good sign to me that both Wisdom and SirCakez both scumread him. It's a little early in the game though to present doubts on that front for fear of WIFOM.
In post 49, Tammy wrote:I believe I have an early leaning town read on kagami.
You believe you do, or you do? They're not quite the same.
They're pretty much the same.
Infinity
, here's your answer: I tend to be nitpicky about semantics. One of the phrases is more assertive than the other, which often times comes from town. The other leaves a little bit of room for maneuverability, which often times comes from scum. In this case they are pretty much the same, but the phrasing can still be indicative of things.
I don't like semantic arguments. That's just me. Semantic arguments are a scumtell to me. That's probably because I strongly prefer VCA and logical/data-based arguments than attempting to analyze word choice or emotional expression. I think it's absolutely impossible to accurately analyze someone's emotional state over the internet.
In post 126, Infinity 324 wrote:...snip...
Kagami is spending all his time trying to sort specifically me, which is odd to me. But he still seems town for now. Gut town lean on Tammy.
VOTE: wraith
Two things. First, if you have a read on a particular person, shouldn't you pursue that and/or pressure them? What's specifically odd about trying to sort out one person, especially without knowing their motivation for doing so? Second - why discuss other people in your post, and then vote Wraith with no other mention of him in your post?
Whats strange about it? The reason im townreading Infinity happened after those initial posts and actually have to do with how Infinity handled those posts.
I dont like this.
Widom beat me to it. There were a number of posts in between, and I can easily see how Infinity's responses could have caused a change in a read. Are you suggesting that people's reads shouldn't change?
In post 133, Infinity 324 wrote:@Nacho: Can you explain what you were trying to accomplish with your questioning of shadow?
I'm more interested in why he seemed to be soft defending Tammy and focusing on things not related to this game specifically. Granted I brought up Thor and other people's posts, but that was to illustrate why I was looking into something here.
Townreading Inf for his early play, don't see the scum motivation in his play. I think he's immediately scumhunting and trying to get the game going.
VOTE: kraska
Is this an RVS vote? You haven't participated yet, say you like Infinity, and then randomly vote kraska. If it's not, please give some explanation.
I thought and still think this was a good post.
Shadow could be more active (then again the same could be said of me) but at this point I'm not going to commit to wagoning him. He hasn't made any specific slip to make me scumread him yet.
