Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[Naomi-Tan]

I... haven't had enough tea to deal with this.. Least it sorta looks like its gonna be a stronger start.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay Well did earlier than I like to do. (as I like to make this post as my second post and I have something to comment on so... wanna do my second post followed by the comment). So... here we go.

Hello Everyone!, For those who know my play style this will be my normal meta post so... feel free to skip. For everyone else... time to write hiya, I'm naomi and I have a very strange play style. Starting with a quirk; I call town Green and Mafia Reds I've only recently started doing this and I do slip up on this from time to time. So... going forward bare this in mind.

Now. my Green play style is what I was talking about when I said I have a strange style. I tend to do smaller posts throughout with bigger posts on occasion day 1 I like to do bigger read lists and iso's and stuff but it normally becomes unsustainable. This alone isn't strange

The strangeness starts now. I also fear death, So.. It warps my views and sometimes I do things just to get people off me. This can easily be miss read as a Red!tell but Thats just kinda how I am. It also leads me to have a LAMIST kinda playstyle pointing things out and I'm also not very good at the game and sometimes when I notice something that looks sorta suspicious but I dunno what to do with it I'll just kinda draw attention to it and flag people into examining it on my behalf as I couldn't draw a conclusion.

I do try to be fair and try to think about things from others points of views simulating in my head if something is more likely to be a Green move or a Red move and I tend to post that kinda thing. But.... It sometimes leads me to just null conculsions or just leads no where... its kinda a thing.

I am also aware that people see these kinda posts and go; Self meta BS. when I've been doing them there are generally 3 pools of people. those who believe me, those who played with me, and those who don't. If your currently falling in the last group of players feel free to browse my wiki, I post every game I've completed in it and it can be a good source for you to confirm this information. of course most of you won't.. but that just tends to be how it is.

Finally though my account is an older one I have only played a small pool of games as I took around about a year and a half break between two of my games only starting steadily again this year. So.. though I'm an older account I lack the experience and skill of many of my contemporaries.

So.. yeah.. thats pretty much all you need to know to get a good read on myself and... yeah lets get to that post I wanted to make.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yo team.
VOTE: TwoFace
Stupid gimmick to be honest.

Okay, yes but no. he tends to stop doing it after RVS has ended.. so.. yeah.

[Naomi-Tan]

Good observation Misa, it is true though that TB also did the same thing, how come you noticed my case in particular?

Having just finished a game with HumanSequencer where he was very active very often his lack of confirmation seemed like a good place to start investigating.

Hmm.. So.. what your saying is your reading that she may have a power role she doesn't understand and had to ask about it and its why she didn't confirm.. why would you talk about that meta as a green? like doesn't it just benefit reds?

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh and why I'm here might as well say; on fridays I'm less active as I'm part of a table top gaming club and I'm out and about during UK times and don't check forums in that period. additionally today I'm going to watch the new marvel film.. so I'm only gonna be active for maybe a couple more hours. Then I'll catch you guys tomorrow :3 may get a few posts in before sleep if something comes up though.

[Naomi-Tan]

FYI Naomi is the strangest player I've ever played with. She's very difficult to figure out.

yup :3 its why I pretty much have to self meta XD

[Naomi-Tan]

That was very informative, Naomi. Here's my rebuttal.
As town, I try to lynch scum.

This is true but I'm assuming your also not trying to lynch greens :3

[Naomi-Tan]

Good observation Misa, it is true though that TB also did the same thing, how come you noticed my case in particular?

Having just finished a game with HumanSequencer where he was very active very often his lack of confirmation seemed like a good place to start investigating.

Hmm.. So.. what your saying is your reading that she may have a power role she doesn't understand and had to ask about it and its why she didn't confirm.. why would you talk about that meta as a green? like doesn't it just benefit reds?

Nope, none of the above belongs to my line of thinking, also if that were the case HS would have had to talk to Key and ask him about his role and he would have been indirectly confirmed.

I thought the possibility that HS had received a scum PM and did not want to play that role was a place to start, I also had other reasons.

@Chaos
Is that an RVS vote?

Urgh you could at least got angry about it >_< yeah that was 99% me trying to jump us out of RVS looks like you didn't bite to get momentum

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay Well did earlier than I like to do. (as I like to make this post as my second post and I have something to comment on so... wanna do my second post followed by the comment). So... here we go.

Hello Everyone!, For those who know my play style this will be my normal meta post so... feel free to skip. For everyone else... time to write hiya, I'm naomi and I have a very strange play style. Starting with a quirk; I call town Green and Mafia Reds I've only recently started doing this and I do slip up on this from time to time. So... going forward bare this in mind.

Now. my Green play style is what I was talking about when I said I have a strange style. I tend to do smaller posts throughout with bigger posts on occasion day 1 I like to do bigger read lists and iso's and stuff but it normally becomes unsustainable. This alone isn't strange

The strangeness starts now. I also fear death, So.. It warps my views and sometimes I do things just to get people off me. This can easily be miss read as a Red!tell but Thats just kinda how I am. It also leads me to have a LAMIST kinda playstyle pointing things out and I'm also not very good at the game and sometimes when I notice something that looks sorta suspicious but I dunno what to do with it I'll just kinda draw attention to it and flag people into examining it on my behalf as I couldn't draw a conclusion.

I do try to be fair and try to think about things from others points of views simulating in my head if something is more likely to be a Green move or a Red move and I tend to post that kinda thing. But.... It sometimes leads me to just null conculsions or just leads no where... its kinda a thing.

I am also aware that people see these kinda posts and go; Self meta BS. when I've been doing them there are generally 3 pools of people. those who believe me, those who played with me, and those who don't. If your currently falling in the last group of players feel free to browse my wiki, I post every game I've completed in it and it can be a good source for you to confirm this information. of course most of you won't.. but that just tends to be how it is.

Finally though my account is an older one I have only played a small pool of games as I took around about a year and a half break between two of my games only starting steadily again this year. So.. though I'm an older account I lack the experience and skill of many of my contemporaries.

So.. yeah.. thats pretty much all you need to know to get a good read on myself and... yeah lets get to that post I wanted to make.

Out of curiosity, why don't you just put a description of your play style in your signature? Would save a lot of time and trouble in my opinion.

EBWOP

Waiting for a ride to my next destination so here is your answer while I'm standing here. If I put it in sig it would be too long and every post would be a page long. Additionally as my play style evolves more things are added and sometimes removed depending on what's going on.

[Naomi-Tan]

Set up a wiki, put info on your wiki, put reference to it in your sig.

Problem solved.

Do I join the wagon?

Tails.

Meh

I could do it in my wiki... but there is no garrentee people will read that.. so.. I feel obligated to say it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Set up a wiki, put info on your wiki, put reference to it in your sig.

Problem solved.

Do I join the wagon?

Tails.

Meh

Talking about naomi's meta is boring and fruitless. It will be helpful to remember, but it'll just clog up the thread for when we want to reread it.
In fact all this talk about player meta in general is boring and fruitless.

Misa, what do you think about Chaos' vote on you? Do you have a defense?

Uzi, why did you decide to post, even though you were clearly aware of TwoFace's post at the time?
Green and red is not radical terminology, nor is it particularly confusing. What do you gain from asking that question, from a town perspective?

I think it's unlikely that TwoFace wasn't referring to Creep's wagon in post 65.

Stopping any discussion in the RVS phase isn't great. There is no reason to drop topics for any reason. As we are capable of holding multiple simulations conversations.

PEDIT; great, would been better in 3D but the effects was REALLY COOL. like totally worth watching, though no spoilers here :3

[Naomi-Tan]

Urgh ghost quotes great...

[Naomi-Tan]

I actually voted Naomi instead of Chaos literally just because I remember her one of the few people who has a 2+ year old account, I forgot what the other one is

I already thought this was the case, it also explains why she noticed my vote on the inactive HS before she noticed TB's vote on the inactive drone.

Her backing up when she was told about drone and going back to Naomi is more a sign that she is new and not super confident of how to scum-hunt, so if she's told that line of inquiry is bad by multiple people she'll likely change her mind and go back to where she was before.

I see the above more likely as "bowing to pressure", it doesn't make much sense to pick fights with experienced players by default and be trying to avoid looking for trouble at the same time.

Misa, what's the game you're referencing where you played with Creeps? Creeps is weird, not sure yet if it's weird scum.

I think this is kinda NAI on her... as it was(or is) the RVS

[Naomi-Tan]

If you're worried about lynching a town by mistake, a. we have a couple of MLs so it's not

too

big, b. there is a likely chance that someone, if not themselves, will defend someone in some certain way. This is also my experience as a 'scummy town if town' type of person. Hell, I've being shat on and voted on to hell and back again and people

are

still defending me. RvS is for pressure. It's how we break the ice.

...No.. just no;

Okay so.. wreckless ML's only help red. careful examination helps win games and educated guess work by power roles. (guessing reds or victims) Heading someone towards a ML can reveal power roles to the red team giving them an easily time eliminating power roles and only excel us towards a loss.

There is also no pressure in RvS. Your not gonna feel threatened by someone voting you because potato. As its not serious and impossible to defend against. If your not voting for lol random then its not a Random vote. its just a normal vote and normally has the momentum to carry others out of RVS and start drawing the parallels.

Also Additionally not just going for lynches generates discussion that can be used to ID reds later on. while we can afford a certain amount of ML's we shouldn't rush into it. (but neither should we lose by inaction.)

[Naomi-Tan]

Unlike you I have an uncanny habit of mslynching power roles in RvS. No seriously I do.

How do you even lynch someone during RVS, Creeps?

I refer to voting as lynching.

Okay... this interaction... Firstly; you should stop referencing voting and lynching as the same thing as
Vote =/= Lynch This is just a clarity issue as they are two separate terms.

Secondly; You should not put your faith in coincidence. my last 3 games I was a green PR. this doesn't mean anything though as correlation doesn't imply causation.
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3030529/in ... ausation/1

[Naomi-Tan]

Ugh, this feels like an excuse not to participate in RvS.

1. People tend to know that RvS wagons are just RvS wagons; pressure.
2. If needed, people can claim at L-1 and redirect the votes, and people here tend to announce whether someone's at L-1. May be different in your previous forum but Mafiascum is a completely different atmosphere, and I can speak from someone who first came from a Mafia forum.
3. RTFT if nobody has announced L-1, which is weird.

1. Well sometimes there are a claim limit of 1 a day. That gets wasted and we kill someone who may be inno
2. See above
3. Well I know people who are reckless.

1. I believe this only answers 2.. not that 1 needed an answer
2. No? Thats not a thing here.
3. Eh yeah, It is suspicious if someone doesn't announce L-1 but it come be they just didn't notice. it happens.

[Naomi-Tan]

(Is there even a game where two PRs had to claim in the same day)

I have experienced this at least once on site I believe.

[Naomi-Tan]

The green and red stuff objectively isn't confusing but I asked the question because I'm getting the feel I'm going to have a difficult time reading her this game. I think getting a better understanding of parts of her play style will help me in the long run. I'm also a student of the game, I'm constantly learning and looking to add new things to my game so if she has a good reason for using this technique, I might try it out in my next game.

Its why I ALWAYS make it post 2. so you can ISO it very very quickly. as my first post is normally only 3 lines. so If you ever need to pull up that post it'll always be at the top of the iso.

[Naomi-Tan]

What is even going on in 99

[Naomi-Tan]

Misa your all caps seems unnecessary

Regarding this, If people feel uncomfortable for seeing an all caps post, Feel free to PM me about it and we can talk. I'll try to edit Misa's post.

Please refrain from editing out things like that, emotion is very important to getting a clean read. When town gets frustrated it can influence my perspective so removing emotional context can give me a false read.

[Naomi-Tan]

There's no guarantee people will read it when you post it in a game

True and I also encourage people who have played with me before to skip over it. as a Courtesy as they know what to kinda expect.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay read up. My opinion is; this is Probs TvT Creeps is very dumb.. but there is no real Red! motivation for there actions. Misa is just kinda frustrated and is kinda equal in fail.

Sorry for not having more to say on this matter... but I just find there back and froth.. kinda just meh? I have said a bit on each of them.. but it both feels like bad play over red play. I guess misa's push could be seen as opportunistic!red.. but thats kinda a long stretch and not one worth really following through on at this stage with so little evidence. It is interesting to me how quick the trains gained momentum. this is what I'd call a trigger happy town so people should try to be clear when they say things to avoid everyone dog pilely them like a pack of hounds.

[Naomi-Tan]

Not really what I was asking at the time. I wanted to know why you incoperated the green and red thing into your play style. Like did you notice someone else do it and take the idea or do you think it helps you do better in games?

oh looks like my mobile didn't send out that message.

though I did incorporate it after someone else used it. the reason I do is it's just a nicer way to refer to the red!team as before I used to call them scum. which is a pretty disrespectful way to address what is just other players wanting to enjoy and experience the same game as you and if I call them reds, it would be disrespectful to not call town greens as it means they are using the same kinda terms and are as equals.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi
I can see why you'd read both as green (I don't mind using this terminology if most of you prefer it, I don't find the usual ones like scum offensive though, it's just the role you were given in the game, not a value judgement of you as a person) but for me it's too early to make an informed decision.

Let's not forget the inactives.

@HS
What didn't you like in TF''s latest posts? I thought his interaction with Mort was fine (for now at least).

@Mod its cool. its the thought that counts.

I don't mind if you use your naive handles. I personally just don't want to do so. they all mean the same thing after all (as long as you make sure people know that)

[Naomi-Tan]

I think why Naomi has a reputation of being so hard to read because she's always acting, whether she's scum or not.

This isn't true. sorry to disappoint..

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah... also the fact you have only mentioned two face when multiple people have said your bad... As far as I am concerned.. its kinda an objective fact :/ But thats fine. you can always improve or you can just do my kinda context about playstyle if yours is consistently strange no matter what.

[Naomi-Tan]

What changed between when you scumread Creeps and now?

I moved creeps from scum read to null/very slight FOS. My reasoning is when he voted for you and said that if he flips green, go after you; if he flips red, ignore this. In the games I've red and been in off site, I've only seen town players do that.

It appears that some people in this thread have adopted my red green style... so.. I guess I'll share some useful things here for you to use as sometimes tense is important.

Red - Scum
Redish - Scummy
reded - scumed

Green - Town
Greenish - towny
greened - Towned.

Now the color can be a little less rigid ^^'

[Naomi-Tan]

stile

*Style.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hmm.. you know.. If reds are being quiet and lurking you guys would be making the game easy for them.. your not really working together.. I kinda been quiet cause this chaos seemed to source from an argument I didn't care about and I had no real leads due to its focus.. but you guys are all jumping on each other.. in a kinda over zealous way. I didn't really post much yesterday and no one even mentioned it.. just saying that it would benefit us if we all calm ourselves a little and try to be a bit more objective. Now I only got around 20m so.. here is some of my impressions so far. given that no one has even talked about me yet consider these all 'fair' in the sense of assuming I am not red they will be entirely uninfluenced by interactions.

MisaTange - Not really sure on them mostly I think its bad play Green but there is some thought behind it. can't get a clear read here right now but I guess over all its slightly more green than red.

ThinkBig - I feel they might be red, but I wanna see what they do when there not V/LA

Toto - I feel they also might be red, I feel there green game has more than they put in so far.

Lohikäärme - honestly. I don't remember them so they can't be great... null

Drone - They are likely also green though I disagree with there reads. I just think the emotion they brought with the entrance was real and probs was the same kinda frustration I expressed when I gave my read on the old situation

copper223 - I think there Green. they give a little less than others but what they give is pretty good

Human Sequencer - Also think they are green. they are pretty much like Vert-slim.

MortFeld - Hmm.. I think they are red.. They antagonised both sides of the maria Creeps rather than going one or the other... which looks more like they are just trying to get a miss lynch rather than find reds..

Lil Uzi Vert - I think there green. good solid posting and looking at stuff

TwoFace - They read kinda greenish. I think i'm not a good judge here though.. So.. ima wait for more content

ChaosOmega - honestly. I don't remember them so they can't be great... null

Creeps20 - they are bad green... no way they are red... its just too bleh!

VOTE: MortFeld

[Naomi-Tan]

Toto - I feel they also might be red, I feel there green game has more than they put in so far.

I could say the same thing about you. I, like you, am also having trouble following the discussion.

yeah it could just be the state of the game.. I'd like to not judge on meta but... it happens. Hopefully we do shift a bit as players seem to be trending away a bit.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well... my read on twoface is mostly meta. When he has played as green before he played kinda like this...

[Naomi-Tan]

I love the reaction most my posts get.. the long silence posting something that just goes on for a long while.. Its a thing..

[Naomi-Tan]

Well, All I have to say is that keep everything cool. I know conflicts can't be avoided sometimes but I'm trying to do my best to make it okay. Unfortunately, I did wrong because I said that Copper would be replaced if he continues to insult TwoFace which is really really wrong on my part as a mod. I also have real life stuffs that is more important than this and I should ask myself to just don't get stressed all about it. Keep in mind, I have 3 people getting replaced and 1 getting prodded. How should a mod don't get stressed about that when his objective is to afford a cool and enjoyable game?

But all in all, Carry on.

@MOD I know you said no extensions... but we just lost 33% of the game's players .. can I request an extension until they are filled?

Sure I'll extend it if we have reached the deadline and see if it's needed - Mod

[Naomi-Tan]

so what are you're thoughts on misa replacing out? I was kind of suspicious of misa earlier before copper distracted me. I don't know how to process this replacement.

I think they might of replaced out due to the heavy negative chi in the game. Currently negative emotions are both high and heavy and has kinda afflicted the game making it less fun to play. The negative atmosphere isn't great considering its already a charged game. I also considered replacing out just because of the general cloud of negative energy flowing in the game, but I'm sticking with it to allow my good chi to flow into the bad and hopefully when the replacements enter things will just kinda level off. given peoples initial reaction to my second post I feel it is likely that town here will recover we just need to give them a bit of breathing room and stay positive so the negativity starts to peter out.

[Naomi-Tan]

yeah I have issues with that. If I see somebody do something that in my mind most townies wouldn't do, I have a hard time accepting that they are a townie. The simplest explanation to me is that they aren't. I don't see how you can tell the difference between scum and a bad player

I think im pretty good at setting that up once you've played a game with me :3

[Naomi-Tan]

so what are you're thoughts on misa replacing out? I was kind of suspicious of misa earlier before copper distracted me. I don't know how to process this replacement.

515 Am I talking to two face, to everyone or to myself. Taking votes now!




Answer; evoba eeht fo lla

[Naomi-Tan]

Why are you referring to town as a separate entity from yourself?

Cause I wasn't negative while I felt that was general greens. I feel that Its important to step back I was also talking to the reds hiding around as I think they too can agree the game is much more enjoyable without a cloud of hate striking people.

[Naomi-Tan]

Human needs some tea

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE: I think I may of been premature here... Mort's content has definitively stepped up today and I feel like its more and more less likely that they are red! motivations.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh I see. You said Misa is different this game than last game. Different how?

I literally see no too little simularity.

See for yourself
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68656

Can someone rewrite this in english I can't figgure out what there saying.

[Naomi-Tan]

I caught this on a reread, forgot to ask earlier
What's 'Vert-slim'?
Also, thanks for the tea.

I dunno... can you link me to the post or quote it. I'll need to look at the context. As it is likely that I used one word instead of another here.

[Naomi-Tan]

I know I didn't join this wagon yet but its becoming clear to me that we will be unable to progress to red hunting while TF contuines to distract town with his play. I don't like wagoning green players but if he continues to take 99% of greens focus then I don't feel that I have much choice as the distraction is too great.

VOTE: Two Facce

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi

Human Sequencer - Also think they are green. they are pretty much like Vert-slim.

ah that. Vert slim was referring to your play being like a lighter version of Vert's play

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi

Human Sequencer - Also think they are green. they are pretty much like Vert-slim.

Look guys, if we're delving into policy lynch territory, I think Creeps would be a far better alternative to TwoFace.
The consensus seems to be that TwoFace is VI. Town.
We're unsure of Creeps' alignment, and he's also only going to be a liability as well.
It looks like TwoFace no longer wants to be in this game, and the players don't want twoface in this game. If we lynch Creeps, that gives the us the nightphase to find a replacement for TwoFace, and gives whatever replacements we do find for the other players time to read up as well.

I understand this can be flipped into red trying to protect a fellow red, but that isn't the case. I just really want to avoid lynching pretty obvious town at all costs.

If push comes to shove I suppose I'll join along, but it really is a last resort for me. Creeps, TB and Misa's slot are all much better options in my eyes.

This would be fine by TF said he has no intentions of replacing out :s and is still got all the focus..

[Naomi-Tan]

This would be fine by TF said he has no intentions of replacing out :s and is still got all the focus..

Why should I? The people I'm scum reading are insulting me. Why would I let them win when I can just get rid of them and show they were scum all along. It's more enjoyable that way

Because you refuse to explain your reads to people replacing in and build a negative environment where multiple players have replaced out because of you. Your kinda ruining this game.

[Naomi-Tan]

He's referring to this. Which is wrong.

yes that's one of the reasons. I think mort later asked me about it and we had a discussion on why I found it scummy. You can disagree with me and say it's wrong, but I don't think it is.

add in the fact that all he has basically done is OMGUS people and he lied about TB's activity

none of that looks like town to me.

hehehe this guy mentioned OMGUS XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah, you should be policy lynched for being a toxic distraction to the game.

how am I distracting the game really? I am trying to lynch scum. I am pointing out scum lying and doing suspicious things.

that's actually called playing the game

if you wasn't paying attention this is pretty much everyones thoughts here and accounts for most of your wagon.

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE:

Yeah I knew it was bad. but I also knew there was no moving beyond it.. he refused to back down and was red reading everyone blindly and in downing so attracting the attention of everyone and preventing red hunting. I had decided that there was no way we would be moving on without either him being replaced or killed.. I was thinking of voting before the wagon started (as I read posts first to last and post as things come up) But this wasn't a policy lynch for me.. it was just something I felt had to be done before we could really hunt reds.

[Naomi-Tan]

since you directed something at me. I don't do cases though. I post reasons. retyping everything into 1 post is a waste of time. Just like I won't ever make a reads list. telling people who I think are town is a waste of time and effort.

At least 2 different times I had discussions with people about my scum read on copper and then somebody comes in and accuses me of not explaining them and you all decide I am policy lynch worthy because of it. That's dumb

I disagree but you know this so. just remember the last time we had this conversation. cool glad we established that again.

[Naomi-Tan]

And on this site and every other site I've played being defensive is nai. If you honestly think it's scummy or a scum tell you need to seriously throw that idea out of you're head.

there is a reason i make my second post explaining that its not a red tell for me... it is kinda a thing

[Naomi-Tan]

The VT claim and the reads look genuine to me. I'm having second thoughts. UNVOTE: HS

shouldn't you find the easy claim more suspicious? could you expand a bit more here?

[Naomi-Tan]

Also the meta read isn't the point, but I can't make the point I wanted to make because ongoing game.

unfortunately it does matter even if there dead your not allowed to talk about it. i did something like what you just did earlier this year and was force replaced out so... its likely your gonna be as well cause of it. sorry.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't think you'll be force replaced either. Hope not anyway.

I still don't know why we're letting wobbuffet off the hook. I've caught him in 2 lies already.

Which are...?

Unwilling to contribute though fully to the game
Lashed out at people who've asked for reasons and I've refused to give them
Not justifying my scum reads
Refusing to give reasons
Avoided the question
That my reason for scum reading your slot was because I disagree with the term lynchbait
Not contributing to the game by giving actual reasons
That I'm trying to get mort lynched.

None of these are true. Yes I realize some of these are duplicates. It's one thing to make a simple mistake. It's another to repeatedly lie over and over again.

I'd like to suggest a thought exercise with you. Now I'm not gonna argue your points here but what I'd like you to do is read back with the thought pattern of his replacement was just a terrible player and then judge only wobb. Baring in mind that they was also on mobile like yourself and it isn't easy for them to read back. Then I would like to know if going off wobb's actions if you believe they are Red! I would also appricate it if you would reveal what you found to the group as a whole as I believe that it'll be useful from your perspective

[Naomi-Tan]

EBWODP

Yeah i meant read back as if the original player was just bad to see if your just tilted.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah no I'm not going to do that Naomi. It's his job as s replacement to read first before making baseless accusations. If he was unable to he should have just said that. Like when I said I was unable to because I was on a mobile, which of course he twisted that into me refusing. Y'all want to make excuses for his behavior go right ahead but I don't see how any of that comes from town.

No im saying go read him ignoring who he replaced and see if you come up with a different result. or if his actions are interdependently red. It could be that he just replaced a bad player and I wanna see if you feel that way.

[Naomi-Tan]

I just posted many examples of him lying. Regardless who he replaced that's it green behavior

I don't think you'll be force replaced either. Hope not anyway.

I still don't know why we're letting wobbuffet off the hook. I've caught him in 2 lies already.

Which are...?

Unwilling to contribute though fully to the game
Lashed out at people who've asked for reasons and I've refused to give them
Not justifying my scum reads
Refusing to give reasons
Avoided the question
That my reason for scum reading your slot was because I disagree with the term lynchbait
Not contributing to the game by giving actual reasons
That I'm trying to get mort lynched.

None of these are true. Yes I realize some of these are duplicates. It's one thing to make a simple mistake. It's another to repeatedly lie over and over again.

If you mean this post its not an example of him lying.. If not I'll go hunting..

[Naomi-Tan]

@naomi- can you please show me any examples of green posting from wobbuffet and explain why they are more likely to come from green and not red. Obviously I am biased but i don't see a single useful post from him

I was trying to work out your motives. That quoted post only says things you say he has done but has no real proof.

[Naomi-Tan]

yup thats pretty much what happened.. I got kinda bleh about the shitty negativity and just skimmed over for anything that was independently scummy without looking at the points at more than face value. which is why that post with everything in it stuck out.. argument seemed like old ground where your both reading each other as red as thats about as far as it goes... couldn't get more out of it so just been kinda skimming it.

I'll take a look back at the argument properly when im in a good head space to deal with it.

[Naomi-Tan]

If you look back at my first post on that big quote It was designed to try and get you to expand your reads out from a narrow field :3 so... I didn't really wanna get drawn in myself

[Naomi-Tan]

Important thing that needs its own post: Wobbu, can I see your reads?

I've been using red/green and scum/town interchangeably. I plan to use red/green exclusively for the remainder of this game.

Even I slip XD Yeah but im going to go over your quote wall now and give my thoughts as they don't align with what is said.

[Naomi-Tan]

In post 626, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:
In post 622, TwoFace wrote:
In post 621, DeathByWobbuffet wrote:
VOTE: TwoFace

As much as I TR TwoFace, I feel like a policy lynch is necessary here. He's already shown that he's unwilling to contribute thoughtfully to the game, so I think that lynching them won't hurt too much even if they do flip town. And yeah, maybe it'll turn out that they're actually mafia.

I've contributed thoughtfully. Thanks.

Uh, no. You've thrown out random scum reads and then lashed out at people who've asked you to give reasoning behind them, and you've refused to do so.

This... isn't true. I agree it's a misrep.

I disagree in context. at the time two face was refusing to give the reasons for his vote again. Stating he was on a phone as the reason.. they spent a lot of the early exchange on about this instead of typing it out a second time and just writting down post numbers. from wobbs perspective he was refusing to answer and it was extremely frustrating and I can understand his position as someone who also likes things condensed for easy reading.

[Naomi-Tan]

yo mort. I see your push here and I just wanna say.. what makes me and her different?

[Naomi-Tan]

You and HS?

well... we both said that they was likely green and both voted on policy and I voted before HS I'm just wondering why you'd pressure only one of us..

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm wondering if you've actually read my posts on HS. I'm not pushing them purely because they saw TF as green and eventually voted TF. Even in that respect, your votes differ. Yours was based in a sentiment you had been expressing for most of the game and was actually a PL. HS' reasoning was that HS saw a PL as inevitable. HS' vote is worse because they originally opposed the PL.

Actually, I might be wrong. Correct me please if you've already explained this, but why did you eventually vote TF, HS?

Yeah... I don't have too much of an issue with the rest of your push.. im just kinda nick picking and probing around for holes in peoples stories as I'm struggling to decide if these pushes are all TvT... it just seems bad to me that all these pushes would be a TvT... So.. I'm kinda looking for some traction..

[Naomi-Tan]

guys... I was doing some research as I thought that all the current trains was Green.. I was looking over the vote counts for data and I found something that I found rather worrying with mort (I wasn't planning this)

Okay... So... Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)
Here is a list (not all votes shown just the ones where he was on leading wagons 3 or more votes)

64 [3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Mortfeld, Creeps20
94 [L-2] Creeps20 - TwoFace, copper223, Human Sequencer, MisaTange, Mortfeld,
422 [3] ThinkBig - copper223, Mortfeld, Human Sequencer,
584 [L-3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Toto, Mortfeld, Creeps20,
825 [3] Human Sequencer - Toto, Mortfeld, Drone,

These lists are taken from when the first vote count he joined a wagon not at their height. But yeah Its rather worrying to me that he has been on every train bar tf. The tf train he kinda chainsawed too. If you examine TF and Mort they also support each other a bunch as well so.. I'm starting to think that they are both red. there is a definite connection here at least..

other things that are kinda weird are things like in this post; 719 Where he unvotes misa as they was getting replaced.. now given his hard stance aganist policy lynching that must mean he either was reading Misa!Red or they was red! and post unvote and replace his stance changed abnormally fast. 779 Here we can see his read list and it portrays that without Rocky (misa's replacement) doing any work at all they went from being there vote (aka top pick) to there 4th pick and one of those people who over took them was AFK idle!

This shows to me that Mort is probably red with his buddy being TF so for now... VOTE: MortFeld

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi. Thoughts on Chaos please.

they don't post much or very often they could be lurking scum but there not really pushing at all on anyone. think its more likely there just dishearten with the current field of play and like me for the past 10 pages or so didn't care for either train.

[Naomi-Tan]

There's no tf/mort connection.

none that I quoted. But If you read the interactions between you two when the pressure started to turn up there is a correlation but correlation isn't causation. Which is why I'm not really focused on yourself..

[Naomi-Tan]

I see your big post mort but im gonna take it in slices so... yeah next post gonna tackle the first part of it that I wish to tackle (as I wanna do it in an easier order as some things require more leg work.

[Naomi-Tan]

other things that are kinda weird are things like in this post; 719 Where he unvotes misa as they was getting replaced.. now given his hard stance aganist policy lynching that must mean he either was reading Misa!Red or they was red! and post unvote and replace his stance changed abnormally fast. 779 Here we can see his read list and it portrays that without Rocky (misa's replacement) doing any work at all they went from being there vote (aka top pick) to there 4th pick and one of those people who over took them was AFK idle!VOTE: MortFeld

What? I have no hard stance against policy lynching. I'm also confused - I was reading Misa!Red, then I unvoted pending a replacement, so my vote could accomplish more. Why is the Misa slot being 5th (not 4th) on my reads list inconsistent? I started looking at HS after the Misa unvote, i.e. a lot has happened in these 200 posts.

I was thinking about my play yesterday - I do admit I have a lot of recency bias. So if something happens/I notice something more recently, I'll unconsciously catalogue it as more heavily indicative of Red! alignment. This might have a little to do with what you see as primacy issues in my reads list, but I still don't see anything inconsistent.

• Okay.. so first the easist thing here; 719 and 779 are 60 posts apart not 200 posts XD

• It doesn't make sense voting for your 5th pick for most likely to be red! why would you vote anyone but your top picks? being 5th in the lineup out of 13 means that there was over 1/3rd of the player base you thought was red more than misa but was voting her anyway. (5/13=0.384615×100=38.4615% gotta love calculators)

• Hard stance against policy lynches

I don't understand this. I feel like this post invokes so many anti-town premises. Don't we want to avoid policy lynches in general? Isn't the choice between policy lynching TwoFace and normal lynching someone else?

This is the only post I could find where you directly state your thoughts on policy lynching all other PL related posts seem to be related to the counter PL hs tried to start. You do talk a lot about PL's though and read most people on the PL wagon as a Red action (with the acception of myself).

[Naomi-Tan]

TB, if that game is becoming increasingly difficult for you by the day, replace out.

I think that's only fair for you guys and for town. /replace requested as I really don't know how to play or what to do.

@MOD: Just Drawing your Attention to the above post.

[Naomi-Tan]

Weird vote.

Okay... So... Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)

Why is this Red? Like, why is it Red! motivated to be on wagons? Also, I question all the time. At the moment I'm still questioning my vote on HS.

Well one or two wagons would be fine... but your on ALL the major wagons... which is kinda a red! tell for me. as You'd think you'd oppose some of the major wagons... but you kinda been on a few of them. Why make effort making your own wagons when you can jump onto someone elses.

[Naomi-Tan]

guys... I was doing some research as I thought that all the current trains was Green.. I was looking over the vote counts for data and I found something that I found rather worrying with mort (I wasn't planning this)

Okay... So... Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)
Here is a list (not all votes shown just the ones where he was on leading wagons 3 or more votes)

64 [3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Mortfeld, Creeps20
94 [L-2] Creeps20 - TwoFace, copper223, Human Sequencer, MisaTange, Mortfeld,
422 [3] ThinkBig - copper223, Mortfeld, Human Sequencer,
584 [L-3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Toto, Mortfeld, Creeps20,
825 [3] Human Sequencer - Toto, Mortfeld, Drone,

These lists are taken from when the first vote count he joined a wagon not at their height. But yeah Its rather worrying to me that he has been on every train bar tf. The tf train he kinda chainsawed too. If you examine TF and Mort they also support each other a bunch as well so.. I'm starting to think that they are both red. there is a definite connection here at least..

other things that are kinda weird are things like in this post; 719 Where he unvotes misa as they was getting replaced.. now given his hard stance aganist policy lynching that must mean he either was reading Misa!Red or they was red! and post unvote and replace his stance changed abnormally fast. 779 Here we can see his read list and it portrays that without Rocky (misa's replacement) doing any work at all they went from being there vote (aka top pick) to there 4th pick and one of those people who over took them was AFK idle!

This shows to me that Mort is probably red with his buddy being TF so for now... VOTE: MortFeld

I'm like, headscratching on this. Are you just looking at vote counts and noticing my name isn't first on the list? I'm not bandwagoning and if you ISO me that should be obvious.

This was me literally proving you've been on every major wagon.. It is just a proof thing.. Point Example Explain and all that English D English stuff I picked up in school. Your intent is in question... anyone can give reasons to vote but the one thing that tied every major wagon bar the person you was connected to together was you joining them.. this is the kind of subconscious red! tell that you can't really plan for.. Its like.. opportunistic Red.. without it being one post but a collection that when compiled read red!

[Naomi-Tan]

@Mod You mind fixing my quote above. thanks

Fun fact; it took me this long to work out that instead of going back a page I could of been hitting the go to post I quoted each time..

Not sure what you did but I put the whole post in it. Tell me if there's something you want fixed. -Mod

[Naomi-Tan]

Road/Misa wasn't afk when I posted that list btw, that list was in response to Road asking for a tl;dr.

yeah but thats NAI you can't really count that as something that would influence your read.

[Naomi-Tan]

Something weird about Naomi - she's only voted me and TF the whole game. TF was a PL, the votes on me were both bad IMO but that could be OMGUS? When someone has only voted a Green! read of mine and a confirmed Green! twice, it's a little suspicious.

Starting to sour on HS. For a contrafact of an R Kelly song - my mind is telling me yes, but my body, my body is telling me no.

I tend to vote sparingly and only for as long as I feel that they may be red.

[Naomi-Tan]

naomi. If somebody was scum reading somebody. Did a 180 on them and later another 180 would that raise and red flags for you?

Depends on the time between the first and second 180..

This post also feels like some kinda trap that I also feel that I may be stumbling blindly into for I do not get where your going with this, however before when you have done this kinda question and I tried not to answer it properly because it made me feel uneasy It made things worse so i'm taking the time to explain that I know your looking for a reaction here and if I'm red I can act as if im green and if im green I will say what I said so its very NAI in this matter i'm pointing this out because I am uneasy and I feel its important to explain it so you also know its NAI and can not read from it not because I don't want you to read from it but because I feel that if you read me badly from it. It would lead to more arguements and me holding my head. so please read what you will on my green answer response scripted or not. this statement is also WIFOM. your welcome.

[Naomi-Tan]

Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the gameVOTE: MortFeld

I'd just like to point out that they weren't on the TF policy lynch wagon iirc.

Hey guys.. you like misreps right?

Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game

and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)
Here is a list (not all votes shown just the ones where he was on leading wagons 3 or more votes)

64 [3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Mortfeld, Creeps20
94 [L-2] Creeps20 - TwoFace, copper223, Human Sequencer, MisaTange, Mortfeld,
422 [3] ThinkBig - copper223, Mortfeld, Human Sequencer,
584 [L-3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Toto, Mortfeld, Creeps20,
825 [3] Human Sequencer - Toto, Mortfeld, Drone,

These lists are taken from when the first vote count he joined a wagon not at their height. But yeah Its rather worrying to me that he has been on every train bar tf. The tf train he kinda chainsawed too. If you examine TF and Mort they also support each other a bunch as well so.. I'm starting to think that they are both red. there is a definite connection here at least..

other things that are kinda weird are things like in this post; 719 Where he unvotes misa as they was getting replaced.. now given his hard stance aganist policy lynching that must mean he either was reading Misa!Red or they was red! and post unvote and replace his stance changed abnormally fast. 779 Here we can see his read list and it portrays that without Rocky (misa's replacement) doing any work at all they went from being there vote (aka top pick) to there 4th pick and one of those people who over took them was AFK idle!

This shows to me that Mort is probably red with his buddy being TF so for now...

VOTE: VOTE: MortFeld

The above quote has been edited to show all the bits that he left out but forging that quote.

Okay... so wobb just cut out the part where I talked about TF and took one line out of the entire quote block and made a hole in it that didn't exist as I had already covered it. Nice.

[Naomi-Tan]

Can you elaborate on why this is a scum tell for you? I find that a lot of people believe not being on the majority of the major wagons in a game is a scum tell as opposed to the opposite. I don't feel Mort has been bandwagoning and I think him being on a majority of all the wagons this game is more of a play style thing. The only odd thing has been the votes for Misa but that's not really AI.

Also why single out Mort for this? Several players haven't started any wagons this game, myself included.

he has started new wagons. my issue is he was on every wagon. like as a red you wanna get a lynch and the one person who they didn't push they been really buddy buddy with.. which looks like red!patterns.

[Naomi-Tan]

Also I didn't mention this in response to Naomi's accusation originally, but while this is my second game on this site, I've played 7 games on a different site. On that site the meta is extremely safe and people tend to vote like Naomi does; only when they have a confident read. This leads to unfun games, in my opinion, and also often hurts Green since Red will park votes, with reasoning, and avoid suspicion as Green v Green debates over votes consume the DP. I feel like my style moves attention from place to place, forcing people to explain their actions, and I'd like to imagine it's scary for Red players.

nah its a pretty good strat.

My post to TF was designed to be over the top. I was making a big deal out of it so that he knew that if this was a reaction test there is 100% no chance that If I was red it was an honest answer. So he knew that would be my green reaction regardless of my current alignment to help him going forward.

[Naomi-Tan]

It seems like you have a problem with the TF wagon not going through and/or Mort not being on it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

urgh.. I feel I may be bashing my head into a wall here.. but no I find that they been on every leading wagon bar one (even when some wagons was coexisting in the first two wagons) and there being enough of a connection between TF and mort to call it a possibility that they are red buddies a problem.. I don't mind that TF wagon died. I was one of the many that unvoted the slot the moment the GM said they'd get replaced.

PEDIT:
UNVOTE:
You know what... This is a terrible train and the more I push it the more its clear that Its the wrong direction.. I thought by now I'd get SOME kind of reaction from mort if they was red or TF but there reaction is so muted that I think I'm just on the wrong train of thought. So.. yeah. I expect I'll take a bit of heat for this choice.. but it looked like it matched up close enough.. but there is no way a red would be this cool...

[Naomi-Tan]

I dunno how i feel about HS.. Wobbu I don't like due to what he did to my post a while ago.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi looks really bad also.

My normal kind of bad or the red kind of bad?

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi looks really bad also.

My normal kind of bad or the red kind of bad?

Red

This is normally the part where I'd ask why But I think its pretty obvious. Is the reason you think im red the following things. Not as active as early last game. Also jumping on your PL and that push over the last couple days?

[Naomi-Tan]

433

oh come on! use the [post] tags will ya! now I gotta track all over the thread

[Naomi-Tan]

you know what no im not tracking all over the thread

433 564 959 1020

There we go I can fetch stuff now.

[Naomi-Tan]

433- votes mort. Thinks he's red.
564 - now he's stepped it up. More and more less likely to be red motivation
959 - back to scum reading him and for not good reasons
1020 - unvotes cause it's a terrible train (no shit). Thinking her 1 vote would be strong enough to generate a reaction is not something I'd expect from green Naomi.

Side note 624 is terrible because I was never stopping anyone from scum hunting. I certainly didn't stop her from it.
Side note 2- 702 is also terrible. Said I was red reading everyone blindly. That's complete false. I had 2 strong scum reads, was pushing on one refusing to back down, and I had reasons for it.

Naomi is probably scum here. Making up reasons to "policy lynch" me. Doing 180s on mort for bad reasons. Unvoting when she realizes she doesn't look green and says it's for not getting any sort of reaction when green Naomi should know better. Most players if scum(or even town) are going to react to 1 vote.

you know.. I really don't wanna deal with this push.. Its kinda bleh.. like hes calling me out for changing my reads between a 130 post gap and my recent push on data. Denied that he wasn't drawing all the attention around the 624 (where he was going to L-2 just for being toxic and unmoving and says he wasn't red reading everyone who was on there train which as far as I remember he was)

Pedit: Dude, You just write [post] in brackets. you don't even need to highlight. you just need a keyboard ><

[Naomi-Tan]

Your push was bad because your case NAI and it was a reaction test as you just admitted. Which means you most likely never believed Mort was scum and I'm now starting to think you felt you needed to do something to prevent your slot from being read null to slightly SR.

originally It wasn't meant as a reaction test but it came one..

your second half was correct though.. I felt all the trains was TvT and I was just looking for something to get some movement in more directions when I stumbled upon morts vote pattern. But... in hindsight I'm pretty sure it was just a bad vote.

[Naomi-Tan]

Is plurality considered normal game in terms of game meta//Setup?

[Naomi-Tan]

I really don't like roads vote.. I feel this push is kinda build on a foundation of sand.. I know this isn't really adding much but.. honestly this looks like a red push.. at least I had some theory behind it... I feel like voting.. so I guess I can

VOTE: Road Kamelot

Sorry for not adding too much here.. but It literally was just these interactions so... not much more to add here.

[Naomi-Tan]

Like how do you read mort's post asking HS to explain his weird 180 on kamelot and still vote kamelot?

I don't get what your saying here.

[Naomi-Tan]

HS said he's lynch him and now he's writing off this interaction as t v t. Those 2 things don't make sense.

Okay... Whats that mean?

HS said; He is lynch him. Now he's writing off this interaction as TvT...

Ah Okay I get it now I wrote it out!

Human Sequencer said that [Mort or Road] should be lynched and now he's dismissing this interaction as t v t. Those 2 things don't make sense.

I dunno if your talking about mort or road sorry TF. This line also seems to be directed Elsewhere. So now looking at things directed at myself. I'll break then post off here to write about the next bit.

[Naomi-Tan]

Let's ignore that kamelot is voting mort who you were just voting recently.

You're vote doesn't look green, especially voting for the sake of voting which is never green thinking.

Yes I looked at the information on voting and came to the conclusion that Mort was read based on voting patterns... but their actions and interactions are in line with green I fell fall to information over analysis so.. yeah I decided that it was a dumb read and probably coincidence. but her vote felt very forced.. and seemed to be OMGUS in reaction to Morts vote sucks.


PEDIT: Who is He'd

[Naomi-Tan]

Am I the only one concerned that shadow is trying to get a mass roleclaim D2?

[Naomi-Tan]

@mod: l/va for 3 days to get over this flu..

Noted. -Mod

[Naomi-Tan]

Im still sick and its extremely hard to focus but I wanna try and catch up so you guys know where I am.. so don't expect good thinking here as my brain is kinda not wanting to exist but Ill do my best to try and contribute.

[Naomi-Tan]

Im sorta in a rut right now.. Im just too uncertain who red is.. I have eliminated some people but Its really hard to work out the others..

This is my green pool right now;
Human Sequencer
MortFeld
Lil Uzi Vert
TwoFace

Which leaves 2/3rds of town unaccounted for.. and thats kinda sucky. Sigh..

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi - you've done 180s on mort so why is mort town now.

Also why is uzi town?

gone over mort before want the reasons go hunting.
Uzi's content has been pretty consistant imo and definately looks like game solving which is very much a townie trait.

[Naomi-Tan]

gone over mort before want the reasons go hunting

Let me pull a wobbuffet.

So you're refusing to give reads?
You expect me to find some vague reasons?



I'll look for them later.

When I wrote that I was thinking to myself "this is such a two-face move" Im still not able to get out of bed or eat and not really having much in the way of effort in me. looks like im gonna black out for a bit so.... zzz inc

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah I didn't want the thread to move too far on without me or without contributing I said to myself.. 3 days.. and only requested that time. If I get worse I'll probs get another L/VA but right now I wanna focus on doing what I can until deadline then with the 2 days rest again hopefully I can get back to normal. there is a bug going around my area and I was just unlucky enough to get it.

@Rb tell me your thoughts on myself so I can work out your slot.

[Naomi-Tan]

hey rb. you commented on all but me. can i get some attention ?

[Naomi-Tan]

Gotta be honest I feel like all the wagons that keep occurring have scum on them. The VC history is so fucking weird but I'm okay with Arc lynch. Having a meltdown at like L-7 and because we won't lynch the apparently confscum cop claim - it's just absurd.

VOTE: Arc

I can generally get behind this; VOTE: Arc

[Naomi-Tan]

hey rb. you commented on all but me. can i get some attention ?

Why are you so concerned about how rb views you?

I feel RB is the type of player who I can't work out there alignment just from there reads on me..

[Naomi-Tan]

Honestly skipped you entirely, hadn't gotten around to you. Would suck if you were scum but I've done such a huge amount of catching up and not gotten much clarity out of it that I feel too apathetic about doing more rn.

eh... I guess..

[Naomi-Tan]

Her frustration seems legitimate now with the claim. I personally can't see someone throwing a tantrum the way she did since I'm sure she knows as well as we all do that we have a long way before a lynch is an auto win for either side.

I find it kinda conviant that she claimed a PR so it was a choice between two PR's.. eh.. but given the ammount of PR's claimed... UNVOTE: I think its probs true..

[Naomi-Tan]

We aren't lynching chaos. We aren't lynching arc.

Let's lynch RB

we're also not lynching RB

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi's reaction to my hypoclaiming suggestion felt really fake. A lot of misrep and shade throwing in that response, without really committing to a stance so that she can always fall back on something like "oh I didn't get what you said"

your hypo claim is just confusing like if everyone claims roles its just gonna make things bad for town. as no one can benafit from roles until the PR's are dead.. which means we lose the potential of town roles. I still don't fully understand it.

[Naomi-Tan]

urgh... has everyone forgot that Im sick? you really think I can bring my normal game when im all bogged down with sickness. Like do you know how hard it is to mafia when you can't really think or focus. I'm starting to get over it but the last week or so has been a write off myend..

[Naomi-Tan]

The case on drone is he has been lurking and the others have given more so we'll be able to work out their alignments later.

VOTE: Drone Jumping on my counter wagon. Because I feel that i'll be able to work out the others as the days go on. As I do have a few green reads now but not really any red reads I think its gonna be one of those games where I work out peoples alignments by POE.

rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223
Human Sequencer
MortFeld
Lil Uzi Vert
TwoFace

those are the people I believe are Green

[Naomi-Tan]

Am I the only one concerned that shadow is trying to get a mass roleclaim D2?

Do you actually bother to read and understand stuff or just jump to conclusion like a *insert profanity here* ?

LUV ^

yeah i didn't and don't really understand it.. it just looks like a non-meta thing that has all roles opened out.

PEDIT: Yeah I think drone is safe bet for today and someone can cop me over night and get me all confirmed. I don't want us to no lynch.

[Naomi-Tan]

The case on drone is he has been lurking

I don't remember anyone using that as a reason

Really? Im pretty sure someone did.. Eh Im okay with it being part of my reason anyway.

[Naomi-Tan]

If he was fake claiming cop, there would have been a CC by now. Either of vanilla cop, Neapolitan. Even gunsmith.

your ruling out the fact that town might not have a cop. so there is no one to CC

[Naomi-Tan]

Its doesn't matter. This town is lost with hopeless players like TF in it.


Scum will kill me tonight. Good bye all. I now officially give up chasing Chaos wagon.

What makes you think your so high and mighty that the reds would single you out above the rest of town.

[Naomi-Tan]

Its doesn't matter. This town is lost with hopeless players like TF in it.


Scum will kill me tonight. Good bye all. I now officially give up chasing Chaos wagon.

Its doesn't matter. This town is lost with hopeless players like TF in it.


Scum will kill me tonight. Good bye all. I now officially give up chasing Chaos wagon.

What makes you think your so high and mighty that the reds would single you out above the rest of town.

Because she claimed Jailkeeper.

well we have multiple claimed roles. and people dislike her, why would the reds lower our level of discord?

[Naomi-Tan]

Wait, let me check something before I run through possibilities. Isn't jailkeeper not a viable role to fakeclaim? Cop can claim town alignment on anyone but only scum will lie about being jailed.

Given whats been claimed it could be faked. most of the PR's are out in the open and they could even fake claim one of the red team or some of the unclaimed. right now I think our PR quota is pretty small.

[Naomi-Tan]

This also assumes reds don't let TF remain due to his tunnel vision and kinda disruptive gameplay. and that they look like the type to hit more greens than reds.. due to their confirm bias.

[Naomi-Tan]

Y'all really need to understand the definition of confirmation bias. You can't discredit my scum hunting as confirmation bias.

Everyone started with a clean slate
I notice a player do scummy things
Player lies/misreps
Oh this player could be scum.
Vote this player

That's not confirmation bias.

im pretty certain your gonna shoot one of these 3 people

HS
Me
RB

All of which I believe are town... which is a thing and if I was red and the others are green like I expect I'd leave you up. as from a red perspective thats just 1 more NK for them.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi. Who's scum?

I dunno.. Who ever the red team is there good.. I have 5 town reads other than myself so.. I think the red pool is one of these people. I think Some people are more likely than others (due to PR claims) but im pretty sure its within this pool.

Road Kamelot rep. MisaTange
ArcAngel9 rep. ThinkBig
Toto
Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme
Drone
ChaosOmega
Shadow_step rep. Creeps20

[Naomi-Tan]

groan.. I just read the last two pages.. im going bed now.. TF .. no.. never mind

[Naomi-Tan]

TF please don't shoot rb.

Then just lynch me. I can't not shoot my biggest scum read when my role is to do that very thing.

[Naomi-Tan]

Called it.
Here is a post I formed earlier (during the night) I still wanna look at individual connections though. also TF. I thought if we lynched red you was shooting what gives?



Green Pool
Naomi-Tan
Human Sequencer
MortFeld
Lil Uzi Vert
TwoFace
rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223


RED
Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme



Green Through Red interactions.
Mort
Shadow_step rep. Creeps20
Human Sequencer


Possible Red viva interaction
rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223
ArcAngel9 rep. ThinkBig
Toto

436 So... Im gonna take this as red confirming my thoughts on the game at that time.
433 Here is my post in refence.

Non-interactive elements.
ChaosOmega


Okay as I said yesterday im working this game by POE as Im struggling on who is red so i'm gonna explain each of the above in a bit more detail
My Green pool is just my green reads from yesterday

We know Nero was red

Mort - He pushed mort quite a few times over the course of the day so there likely green

Shadow_step rep. Creeps20 - Though there actions was seen in the early day as red when it became clear that they was not gonna be lynched they moved off them and gave that slot a green read by noobieness from that point forward like most others

HS - Huge mud slinging here calling her everything under the sun to try and force there lynch through. So.. Im pretty certain they are green as I don't think they would push THAT hard on one of their own

rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223 - Over the course of the day they spoke down Coppers interaction and tried to soothe the lynch on them which might be cross team damage control and once RB got control of the situation they stopped talking about the slot all togeather. this posion courpts my perviously Green Read on them.. but right now I think i'll give the benafit of the doubt as I feel it could of been nero setting up a puppet player (someone who thinks your town and you can infulence easily enough to ML)

ArcAngel9 rep. ThinkBig - They always played down TB's actions as meta lurking and stuff and don't really talk about angel I feel like this slot shouldn't make N3

Toto - I feel there is a possible of Red here. during most of the day Drone doesn't interact with Toto until the end where they push. I feel like Drone was trying to get themselves lynched to give toto Green Credit.

Given post 436 and 433 VOTE: ArcAngel19 takign this as confirming that reds was just letting us fight ourselves im gonna go with TB being a red.

Chaos Omgea - I'm pretty sure they are NEVER MENTIONED ONCE XD which is weird for a red slot. not really sure how I feel about that

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi - there is no way you can think arc is scum given her role claim and the scum that flipped unless you are cc'ing her.

strong man makes sense with some sort of protective role like doc or jail keeper.

what was there Roleclaim? I might of skipped over it while sick. Why is it unlikely that they are lying? also who did you shoot?

[Naomi-Tan]

Given post 436 and 433 VOTE: ArcAngel19 takign this as confirming that reds was just letting us fight ourselves im gonna go with TB being a red.

What is this vote?

Drone kept playing down think bigs lurking as just being a him thing. I don't see a Red motivation for drawing pressure away from TB unless they are both red.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi - there is no way you can think arc is scum given her role claim and the scum that flipped unless you are cc'ing her.

strong man makes sense with some sort of protective role like doc or jail keeper.

hmm.. for the record. I am willing to vote toto as well. for alike connections I just thought TB inputted less. So... Yeah if you guys want. I'll join your wagon later on. like when the day has gone on a bit. I don't really want us to lose our talk time to quick lynches unless we get a claim of some kind

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi:

I'm not following the Arc vote. If I'm understanding correctly, you typed up that post during Night 1? If so, why post it now? I'm sure the NK and Omega claiming he investigated Toto should have some sort of effect on your reads.

Yeah thats right. I just don't want the day to end before conversation or toto having a chance to say stuff. I'm pretty okay with the toto lynch today and am working on tomorrow. No point entering twilight right after the day has started when we can talk and act as if toto has already flipped red on PR

Oh I think its about time to claim too. as I think all the roles are out there and if I don't claim its gonna look bad if pressure builds so... Im VT.

[Naomi-Tan]

what was there Roleclaim?

no way you missed her role claim given these 2 posts

2167
2171

Missed and forgot are two very close things. I didn't remember them. but given they are JK I would be interested in knowing who they targeted. as the NK might of been blocked by there PR which might confirm the last red and end the game. (or at least confirm another town)

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE: Also that XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh I think its about time to claim too. as I think all the roles are out there and if I don't claim its gonna look bad if pressure builds so... Im VT.

this was completely unnecessary

That was the point. If I gained a vote following I think the claim would of made me being miss lynched much higher so preemptive claim to keep those fires somewhere else.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi:

The day is not going to end before everyone posts, especially Toto. As for claiming, I don't think we need to do that at all right now, we're in pretty decent shape.

`

Well if thingy Jailed a red thats it game solved? TF shot HS and the NK was prevented. by stopping the shooter and then GG right? with toto's postive that would mean the JK knows who is a red and chaos knows a red so.. thats 2 reds out of 2 and we can end the game

[Naomi-Tan]

why do you think I shot HS? how do you even know I used my action last night?

Well what reason do reds have to NOT shoot a PR. they had multiple PR choices. It makes much more sense that you did it.

[Naomi-Tan]

you don't remember specifically yet you were bragging that most of your reads were correct?

what is up with people's memory in this game?

btw drone voting you and you calling it out doesn't confirm anything to me because bussing and distancing are things. You not voting drone given he was a scum pr stands out to me

:3 yeah that happened. I remember my own reads XD as there my reads hehe.

PEDIT: guess that means I was on the mark TF.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Chaos

As far as I'm concerned we vote Chaos now.

IF Chaos is green - They will be confirmed cop. Confirmed toto is Red and confirmed Arc is red
IF Chaos is red - I still think there is a chance toto is red given evidence and that after being JK'd there was no kill. this is for 3 reasons. during most of yesterday Drone was friendly towards Toto until the end where it looked like he was implying to lynch him for green cred. As there was no NK I think toto took it but was jailed. So no kill. this would make sense to me. So.. In both paths there is a chance of red toto.

[Naomi-Tan]

I did read that Chaos said he had a guilty on Toto, I didn't know JK blocked investigative roles.

Base Role

A Jailkeeper (or Jailer)'s Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target. Unlike Doctor, Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
Because it is a combination Doctor and Roleblocker, Jailkeeper has a myriad of uses while not allowing broken combinations or exactly confirming anyone as Town or scum. Thus, it has risen to prominence as a very popular power role.
Because it is a Roleblocker, Jailkeeper is never allowed to self-target.
This role is a non-bastard version of Paranoid Doctor.

Read from here

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toto

That says it roleblocks the target and saves them from being killed. which means the cop positive would still happened as its not roleblocking people who targeted them. We just have a double positive on toto.

[Naomi-Tan]

How did that cop claim go un fucking CCed then?

cause we don't have a cop in town setup to CC a red claim. duh... there is only 1 cop in the game. town or not. most likely town though given this double confirmation and given that its kinda madness to cop claim D1

[Naomi-Tan]

I did read that Chaos said he had a guilty on Toto, I didn't know JK blocked investigative roles.

Base Role

A Jailkeeper (or Jailer)'s Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target. Unlike Doctor, Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
Because it is a combination Doctor and Roleblocker, Jailkeeper has a myriad of uses while not allowing broken combinations or exactly confirming anyone as Town or scum. Thus, it has risen to prominence as a very popular power role.
Because it is a Roleblocker, Jailkeeper is never allowed to self-target.
This role is a non-bastard version of Paranoid Doctor.

Read from here

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toto

That says it roleblocks the target and saves them from being killed. which means the cop positive would still happened as its not roleblocking people who targeted them. We just have a double positive on toto.

Hold. What are you saying ?

looking at your quote from the wiki you have 2 fuctions;
• you protects its target from kill actions
• And Roleblock them

This means that Toto was roleblocked and prevented from dying but investigations not being kill action would of worked as normal. you just confirmed chaos as Green. yourself as Green and double toto Red

[Naomi-Tan]

Jailkeeper protects and roleblocks the target, it doesn't roleblock people targeting their target.

Just look on the MafiaWiki for Jailkeeper.

Show where in wiki it says that. WIKI clearly says that "Jailkeepers not only protect their target from all kills, but also render its target untargetable by all other actions during that Night."

I was going explicitly off your quote.

[Naomi-Tan]

revisting with new data.

Green
ArcAngel9 rep. ThinkBig (confirmed)
ChaosOmega (confirmed)
MortFeld
Lil Uzi Vert
TwoFace
Naomi-Tan (confirmed to me)
rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223

Lynch pool
Road Kamelot rep. MisaTange
Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme
Shadow_step rep. Creeps20

Red Confirmed.
Toto

[Naomi-Tan]

So we lynch Toto. But we can do the work today to figure out who the third scum is.

one step ahead of you

[Naomi-Tan]

Lets all take a 15m break to review toto's interactions and look at our red pools for possible connections

[Naomi-Tan]

How did that cop claim go un fucking CCed then?

UNVOTE:

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't want the day to end yet. lets use this time while we literally have red in a cage.

[Naomi-Tan]

POE LIVE!

Road Kamelot rep. MisaTange

Eliminated; With toto voting them and drone pushing on them slightly too (saying things that implyed they was red) I think we can eliminate them as being red. no one distances that hard.

[Naomi-Tan]

LIVE POE
Not eliminated;
Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme - Between Drone and toto they mention Nero 4 times total. 3 of these times are when other people say stuff. (in there quotes) and only once is it directly them talking about them (Drone says they are Green)

Between both of them there is no mention of Lohikäärme

Given this: Fos Nero.
and moving on



PEDIT: btw toto hasn't self voted yet so don't put them L-1 in case of self hammer.

[Naomi-Tan]

POE LIVE

Shadow_step rep. Creeps20

Looking at just the creep side of things I See pushes by them both to some degree this makes sense to me as the final elimination

Given there is no other reds on my list remaining I believe the final red to be; Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme

[Naomi-Tan]

Lol, how does jailing me confirm me as cop?

I am still thinking that you may be throwing your scum mate under the bus because Toto's kill has failed last night. It is real good strategy to bait your mate so that you can almost get a confirm town cred.

I will jail you tonight and TF doesn't shoot anyone. If I live through the night, you're the last remaining scum or you're confirmed cop.

This is a bad plan;

Red can choose to no shoot. or purposely shoot them as the cop so the shot looks like it failed. Which means we just lose cop information and JK preventing and they'd get a free miss lynch.

Here is the run down of the facts;
• TF shot HS
• Chaos Copped Toto
• Arc Jailed Toto

• As there was no red kill. toto must of been on the red teams killer.
• Chaos called toto as red. if they was red they would had no reason to do this as the JK could of protected the kill so all they would of done was kill an ally.
• Given we know they was red and the kill didn't happen the JK is also confirmed green.
• Given the JK stopped toto!reds kill it also backwards confirmed Chaos.

No NK confirmeds Arc.
Calling the Red before Arc did confirms Chaos
The cop seeing toto as red confirms that toto is red and not the nk target.

[Naomi-Tan]

No. Nero is town

based on what exactly?

Meta. I could be wrong too but he isn't something we need to worry today.

rather use the facts than meta. they are my lynch tomorrow.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't see why the massclaim has to be today. If it's a good idea, it is just as valuable tomorrow since we're lynching scum today.

exactly

Personally? I don't see the point in holding back at this stage. we are down to the last red and most roles are in the open

[Naomi-Tan]

No. Nero is town

based on what exactly?

Meta. I could be wrong too but he isn't something we need to worry today.

Road Kamelot rep. MisaTange - VT
ArcAngel9 rep. ThinkBig - JK
Toto - Red
Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme - ???
rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223 - VT
MortFeld - ???
Lil Uzi Vert - ???
TwoFace - Vig
Naomi-Tan - VT
ChaosOmega - Cop
Shadow_step rep. Creeps20 - ???

Did I forget anyone who has claimed tf?

[Naomi-Tan]

the only claim we need is toto's claim

Fair enough. Two Possibilities.

1)
Toto try to kill Chaos last night but failed
Chaos targetted Toto and got scum result


2) Toto & Chaos are scum together
Chaos fake claimed on D1.
Toto kill on someone else was failed. they both know that I jailed Toto. Chaos decided to bait him to win town cred so that he will live till lylo without being suspected

That situation is unlikely. given that Chaos claimed D1 where we had no idea about roles it was an extreme risk. Also when the day started he called out a red. which could be a thing for him to skirt to victory but given they lost a person the night before and was prevented the kill over night and knew there was a JK the likely hood of them going for the 1 v 10 risk is stupidly low. Also given that we couldn't tell if toto was the target of the kill or the killer without chaos's input it makes 100% likely hood that chaos = Green.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay. I'd like to get everyone lynch pool. From that we can shoot one and JK the other.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't see why the massclaim has to be today. If it's a good idea, it is just as valuable tomorrow since we're lynching scum today.

We need to know how we are going to run show tonight.

I hope you're seeing things the way I am.


I still don't believe Chaos claim. why did Chaos targets Toto last night instead of me if he is really the COP?

And Scum kill didn't go through which is enough for scum to know that I have jailed TOTO and the result is failed. They are well aware that I will check with TF about his kill and confirm my night actions which will directly point TOTO being the mafia killer.

Chaos could be using this opportunity to bait his mate so that he will easy town-cred

the reason why I am screaming for MASS claims. If there are more PR's in the group. It will become easy to speculate the setup and would know for sure that someone may be faking about their role because this is a Normal game and balance means everything to the setup.

because the end of D1 was super suspicious on toto.

[Naomi-Tan]

Jesus. Arc.. drop chaos being red if it goes to you and like 3 others you can then look at that lynch but until D5 or D6 there is no way we should let that pass. as a town cop I believe that If we wait it out as red they'll have to confirm more and more Greens until they hit the point where they cannot confirm anyone else. Speaking of confirming. can you guys confirm your lynch pools so we can coordinate our 3 roles.

[Naomi-Tan]

All these are town

Chaos
Arc
TF

These have claimed VT

Naomi
RK

Leaves
rb
Nero
LUV
Mort

didn't wobb claim VT?

[Naomi-Tan]

Hey. last red. wanna just claim red so we can end this? I think its clear now you've lost the game and we can maybe set a normal win speed record by ending N2 which is something that would be pretty cool.

[Naomi-Tan]

Lmao if this game sets any sort of record... either way it's going down in the history books for sure.

Hehe yeah Im just hoping to end this one now :3 It feels like its all over already and we just need the last red to be like; dang guys.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh, I see. My scum day was yesterday for me, we must be in different time zones. But thanks! Crazy that almost a year went by before I wanted to play again.

I havn't been red since my two year gap where I stopped playing XD I don't even know my red meta and thats scary XD I have no idea what I'll do next time im red.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't see why VTs are excluded from the pool for Cop checks. Specifically Naomi and RK since I am pretty sure rb is town after rereading day 1.

Yeah I was thinking of asking to be vig shot N3 if nero didn't flip so I couldn't be used to miss lynch D4. But im cool with being copped too in fact. I'd like to ask for;

Vig Nero
Cop myself
JK RB

[Naomi-Tan]

I forgot who but someone made a point about Nero not caring about looking town and I can't help but feel that might be the case here. I'm going to try to look back and see if I can find who said it because I think that's who I think the cop and the JK should target. Naomi is a good target as well, she hasn't really done much all game.

Nothing to claim in regards to a result.

Wait... how is that possible?
We know all the roles went out D1 so there is no RB
Okay.. so.. here Is How Night actions prob went down..

Chaos for some crazy reason targets TF
Red's Shoot TF
The jailed Target is now green.

[Naomi-Tan]

I forgot who but someone made a point about Nero not caring about looking town and I can't help but feel that might be the case here. I'm going to try to look back and see if I can find who said it because I think that's who I think the cop and the JK should target. Naomi is a good target as well, she hasn't really done much all game.

Nothing to claim in regards to a result.

I jail kept "RB"

I somehow thought that he is our last scum. So this confirms that He is Town.

....You Jailed the person that everyone but one person thought was town... Urgh... URGHH... UURRGGHH... That was one of the worst possible targets... only one worse would of been chaos or Mort URGH...

[Naomi-Tan]

Why would scum choose to kill a VIG when they could kill COP?

Would you guys believe my theory on Chaos being scum and baiting Toto to win town-cred?

here is a better question; Where is The vig shot? beacuse kill actions happen at the same time we should have two dead... wait I think I know what happened thinking on it

Paranoid TF shot RB because OFC he did. But they was jailed.

[Naomi-Tan]

Why would scum choose to kill a VIG when they could kill COP?

Would you guys believe my theory on Chaos being scum and baiting Toto to win town-cred?

I don't know if it's necessary to consider this yet, but I am keeping it in mind for later. Hard bussing when you lost a buddy Day 1 and you just had a nightkill prevented feels off.

If I had to guess its because we was using the vig to recklessly kill the weaker town players in knowledge we'd hit him first and we was CLOSE. If my RB shot theory is true then the last red should be nero as thats what everyone was telling him to kill and with the crowd telling them to kill you, you'd have to shoot him to be alive and hope he did something unpredictable.

[Naomi-Tan]

Annoyed that town consensus on PR usage was very obviously ignored.

a little yes... this day shouldn't of happened :I

[Naomi-Tan]

I forgot who but someone made a point about Nero not caring about looking town and I can't help but feel that might be the case here. I'm going to try to look back and see if I can find who said it because I think that's who I think the cop and the JK should target. Naomi is a good target as well, she hasn't really done much all game.

Nothing to claim in regards to a result.

I jail kept "RB"

I somehow thought that he is our last scum. So this confirms that He is Town.

Why would scum choose to kill a VIG when they could kill COP?

Would you guys believe my theory on Chaos being scum and baiting Toto to win town-cred?

here is a better question; Where is The vig shot? beacuse kill actions happen at the same time we should have two dead... wait I think I know what happened thinking on it

Paranoid TF shot RB because OFC he did. But they was jailed.

Your case is futile. Chaos didn't say who did he target. He just said that there is no result. Doesn't that ring you bell?

How do you know that Chaos and scum both targeted the same person? If Chaos really targeted anyone, the first thing he would have said that his target got night killed.

Are you trying to say that The cop would target the Vig? Why the fuck would he target a town read?? what is WRong with you URGHHHHHHH >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

whats with that post chain??

[Naomi-Tan]

Why would scum choose to kill a VIG when they could kill COP?

Would you guys believe my theory on Chaos being scum and baiting Toto to win town-cred?

here is a better question; Where is The vig shot? beacuse kill actions happen at the same time we should have two dead... wait I think I know what happened thinking on it

Paranoid TF shot RB because OFC he did. But they was jailed.

So you have a theory and you believe it so strongly and you don't believe why i think Chaos is still scum?

And Isn't that good that I chose on my own to jail RB? If TF indeed shot RB then i just saved a townie. TF death confirms that RB can't be scum.

Please... just stop... your theory is the dumbest thing >_< Why would you conciser killing a cop PR that has found a red before the last few days is the worst thing >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

'I think the Cop is a Red. beacuse they are not doing so well with talking'

"Thats you, thats how dumb you sound" - GLaDOS Portal 1

[Naomi-Tan]

Are you trying to say that The cop would target the Vig? Why the fuck would he target a town read?? what is WRong with you URGHHHHHHH >_<

Calm down. Listen to my case too.

How do you know that Chaos is Cop? Becuase he told you or he gave confirmation on Toto?
there is a good choice that Chaos could be hard bussing his scum to save himself and gain huge town-cred to survive till lylo.

I remember someone mentioning that if Chaos is really cop, He wouldn't survive till DAY 3. And he still lives..and we are at D3

GAhhhhhhhhhhhhh >_< >_< >_<

Okay For another time. He told us at the start of D2 that toto was red. He also said it before you gave any confirmation on the point. Which means he knew before you knew. That being the case he must be green or killed his partner with no warning and when there wasn't red reads of him really, the fact he lives just shows that the Reds are gambling that your paranoia will convince everyone to lynch them >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

'I think the Cop is a Red. beacuse they are not doing so well with talking'

"Thats you, thats how dumb you sound" - GLaDOS Portal 1

Calling someone dumb doesn't make you smart. your rage doesn't help.

Think for a minute, why would scum let cop live till D2? when they could kill him on day 1?

Doesn't it ring a bell?

Wanna know why there alive. Cause TF was gonna shoot the last red N2 and you blocked the shot N1. Knowing your about to die the only chance you have is to kill the killer and hope they don't go with towns plan like every other PR didn't.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Nero

Be gone Red!

[Naomi-Tan]

He didn't though. there could of been a Doc. he could also been shooting HS we don't know do we? Also theres the fact that red claiming to be cop D1 when there could be another cop in the game. Just vote Nero.. You can jail them if your that bloody paranoid and when another person is dead tomorrow you can enjoy feeling like a moron. or be dead.



PEDIT: You Blocked RB. Reds Shot TF. Why shoot a Vig over a cop; Because according to the town consensus of where power roles should be used. TF is about to shoot you. Your only chance of living. to kill them and hope that they either target someone there not meant to, or they are jailed or your jailed. Fortunately for Nero this is what happened with TF targeting RB. Which is fortunate as you prevented that shot on a now confirmed Green.

[Naomi-Tan]

Confirmed green; ArcAngel9 rep. ThinkBig, rb rep. DeathByWobbuffet, rep. copper223, ChaosOmega
Prob green; MortFeld, Lil Uzi Vert

Which means Red is within these 3.
Nero Cain rep. Lohikäärme
Road Kamelot rep. MisaTange
Shadow_step rep. Creeps20

Given Red Interactions with Misa and Creeps we can eliminate those two to Nero Cain being the last red. now.. move on.

[Naomi-Tan]

So if there is a doctor. Won't this game is totally unbalanced? You assuming a lot of possibilities without any evidence to support you but i have more than one evidence to think why Chaos is still scum.

And stop abusing people because they didn't agree with you. You have been doing same to me right from the beginning. So should I call things that you said to me?

What if I am right and you're wrong. You should know that this is just a game. The louder you shout, the lesser i would listen. so, if you want to change my opinion, you need to pick some convincing skills and screaming like this won't work.

I don't think Nero is scum. Period.

And your logic is completely delusional. You're not a power role so you don't know what other power roles out there so stop assuming on your own. There is no other jail keeper to jail me because i am jail keeper and what i did last night was something different and it worked in town's advantage. I now have one less person to worry from my scum list. This is good news for town.

Its called basic Game Theory.

We have a X-Shot Cop, A Jailer and a Vig. Reds have a Shotgun user, and a Goon and one unknown. They also don't have day talk. Unless the last Red is another goon we should have at least 1 more PR. but that doesn't matter, beacuse the point was he didn't know that information.

My logic being;
These people have been confirmed by power role usage finding red and shouldn't be looked at when there is 9 alive.
then these people have been extremely townie and been helping find reds
then these people was pushed strongly but reds more than what can be considered distancing leaving
These people might be red. however, that list is 1 person long Nero.

And to flip this on you. Why did Red!chaos shoot TF rather than yourself as the only person in the game paranoid enough to think there red. Your a power role thats prevented a kill and confirmed Green and the biggest pusher for your lynch. why would you as Red!chaos not shoot yourself. There is no reason to not.

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE:

We are supposed go mass claim, why the hell are you putting him on l-1

Because its over. we know nero is red. we just need to hammer and end

[Naomi-Tan]

No we don't know that yet, don't take things for granted.

No more votes on Nero.

And there was no vig shot because TF was 1 shot only. Read the thread.

Once again the last red was not aware of that last night. so its a mute point. he would of acted like TF was about to shoot him as thats what everyone said for them to do. (though I didn't notice the one shot. so TF didn't shoot RB, but that doesn't really effect my theories as RB was both jailed and town so whatever)

[Naomi-Tan]

No we don't know that yet, don't take things for granted.

No more votes on Nero.

And there was no vig shot because TF was 1 shot only. Read the thread.

Also as far as im aware we DO know nero is the last red just from POE. Who benafits from TF's death most? the person who is about to be killed (who we now know was a bluff) Nero.

Out of the people who are not confirmed green or have been generally green enough to be eliminated who is left

a pool of 3 players and out of those 3 who have been pushed by the confirmed reds to try and get them lynched. Everyone bar Nero.

and if you look at red interactions with nero they are kinda pleasant and nero was quiet most of yesterday and all of today as we searched out the last red. Because they know there fucked.

PEDIT: Chaos is L/VA

[Naomi-Tan]

Arc's theory is reasonable but it supports a Chaos lynch way later down the road, not today.

Chaos, I want to know who you targeted. I see no reason to keep this secret. I see only scum motivation to not tell us this in your first post.

Why do you think its reasonable that Red!Chaos killed TF over Arc.

[Naomi-Tan]

I am using my head. we have a one shot Pr. a Jailer and what i'm guessing is an Odd night cop. VS 3 Reds and one strongman user. So one mafia that negates Jailor protection. which means the game would be red tilted. we was lucky with the D1 lynch and D2 lynch but this whole not killing nero thing is just urgh >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

one shot Vig**

[Naomi-Tan]

Fun Fact; Nero Didn't post at all for the entire duration of D2 and has yet to post today as well (despite being active on the forums if you look up his posts done)

PEDIT: He said he had some kinda limit on his ability and didn't use it last night. (thus no result) it would make sense to be a Odd night limit else why not claim 1 shot or D1 only.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay i'm gonna put this out there; the only counter to my hard push on nero has been chaos. IS everyone in agreement that by POE only Nero, chaos and myself as possible reds? (i've auto eliminated myself but could see that POV) IF you guys are in this agreement may I suggest the following

Today we lynch nero. and jail myself (allowing the cop to get one use out if he is like I expect odd night) then D4 we can have 2 more confirmed if we don't win on the nero thing. It would mean that the next night (when the cop doesn't get an action) we can jail them to make sure im right and at that stage we will be down to the people I've eliminated or most people have (mort, Misa, Cooper and there replacements)


PEDIT; Not posting =/= being around. He is posting else where as I pointed out. he is around but not inputting at all.

[Naomi-Tan]

^ This is actually a question. I don't know a lot of the theory surrounding PRs.

I don't disagree. It's a good bet but there is something i don't feel good about this.

Anyway, I suggest we go "No Lynch" today so that we don't lynch a townie. what do you think?

I will have Chaos confirmed tomorrow. If Chaos is not scum, I won't survive tonight.

no we have 8 green to 1 red there is no reason to no lynch. when all the cards are in our favour. even if we miss lynch today that puts us 6 to 1, a miss lynch tomorrow 4 to 1 and another ml? 2 to 1 and thats assuming we don't prevent any kills. we can miss lynch 3 times in a row without consequences.

[Naomi-Tan]

The only thing I confirmed Arc was nero is actively avoiding posting in the thread AKA Lurking. Which is a red tell at this stage. If we lose because everyone is too dense to kill the obvious red I will be extremely irritated at you all.

[Naomi-Tan]

@MOD You need to poke nero for not posting in 48 hours. unless he has submitted night actions His last post on the forum was 4 days 23 hours ago

A quick list of people who have posted since his last post;
Drone, Human Sequencer, Toto

Thats gives you an idea of how long he has been lurking.

[Naomi-Tan]

Now we wait. if he has submitted Night actions he won't get proded. if he has then he won't get prodded. Consider this a litmus test for active lurking

[Naomi-Tan]

Luv is town for generally decent posts. there spread out but imo generally are pretty substantial posts you can definitely see them trying to work out the game within them.

As for RK... Well that comes from red interactions... I'll get some choice quotes setup.

[Naomi-Tan]

Road Kamelot rep. MisaTange

This is important to note as im gonna draw quotes on Misa over Road as Misa was p

I've been trying to get an answer of him for a while now. The read/vote progression is quite weird. I find it odd he came back to 'respond to questions' but somehow missed this.

See 328 and my prompt in 406

This makes me more suspicious of Misa+TB

ushed harder by reds.

I don't like Misa the most so far.

VOTE: Misa

Wait, what happened to Misa? you were voting him befoe.

Misa and Mort both feel scum to me, the worst part is that they are on the same level.

About mine: me not voting Misa is a direct outcome of the inactivity I spoke of, where I meant the replacements and lots of others being inactive (you, TB and Creeps) when I said I can't work with the inactivity.
Not to mention Misa is replacing out, sometimes it's not the slot, but the players that make the difference.
I just can't focus right now with the recent events. Need things to get back to order.

To expand on the fair vote comment - I agree that scum might play the way I am playing, inadvertently. Perhaps my reads list would help you believe I do have an idea of how the game is progressing?

I'm working with:

{

Creeps, Toto, Drone, LUV, TF

}
{Chaos, Naomi, Nero}
{

Road, TB

}
{

Wobbu, HS

}


Pedit: Yes... Road asking for a tl;dr was the reason I posted the reads list. You said that the Misa slot was AFK at the time I posted that, which is not true. I didn't say that asking for the list was my reason for SRing the Misa slot - those reasons were explained in the post.

Wobbu is town.

(Didn't disagree with road red)

@Mort
I didn't reread closely enough, all I have to say.

VOTE: Kamelot

I left you guys alone for two days and you let HS dodge the rope...

Misalot does look still look bad though so I'm ok with a lynch there. I'd still prefer a HS lynch. In the worst case they are VT. All these wagons are not going to help town. I don't like the massclaim idea either.

I'll catch up in more detail later today.

[Naomi-Tan]

Mort - you want to take a risk of lynching someone town?

You and I know very well that I won't survive tonight and I want to confirm if Chaos is really town or not.

If we go through no lynch today, On D4 you will have Chaos is confirmed town, RB confirmed town.

You will be left with Naomi, Liz, RK, Nero and yourself to know who is scum among you.

OR

If the chaos is scum, even better. the game is over. We will bag a perfect town lynch victory.

WE are not in lylo we can afford 3 miss lynches before lylo. assuming you don't prevent a kill between then and now.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: RK

Now off from Nero wagon please.

OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW CAN YOU BE SO BAD ARRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm arc I'm gonna use my PR on someone who EVERYONE IS TOWN READING WASTING A CONFIRMATION. Oh no they was town. what a MOTHER FUCKING TWIST. Oh I guess I'll town read the only person REDS WAS NOT PUSHING FOR ON THE TIMES THEY WAS ALIVE BECAUSE ACTIVELY LURKING (Confirmed by mod not poking) IS TOTALLY AN OKAY THING TO DO! OH AND WATCH OUT FOR THE COP THAT FOUND RED BECAUSE THEY LIVED! oh AND BEACUSE I VOTED THE PERSON THE REDS WAS PUSHING AFTER BEING SHOWN THEY WAS PUSHING IT, THAT TOTALLY STOPS THE TOTALLY SCUM DRIVEN PUSH ON THE ONE PERSON WHO THERE NOT ON >_<


FJBNASOGNEO[GNBZSDOLPFVBNIBNKDA >_< arc OH MY GOD YOU SUCK!

[Naomi-Tan]

Damn I entirely Forgot the no lynch because when we are at Lylo -4 days we should be totally worried >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi - Chaos didn't out Toto, Arc did. Chaos giving guilty on Toto would always happen regardless of Chaos' alignment. Once scum!Chaos saw that the nightkill failed he'd know that Arc jailed Toto, and would want to claim her alignment first.

You know what fine. if your gonna chaos conspricy theory I'll give you a counter theory

Arc is red. She organised with her team to no shoot N2 so she could claim to have jailed toto for the no shot. and when they flipped red arc is confirmed. Then targets a confirmed townie and a claimed VT night 2 to make sure no one could tell.

>_< Frustrated Nao is frustrated, this theory is just as valid as the Chaos!red theory. But neither of them do I think we should be considering.

[Naomi-Tan]

In fact given she targeted a VT its prob more valid than her theory -_-

Still lynch nero.

[Naomi-Tan]

along the same lines. if Arc was so sure that Chaos was red, why would she not jailed them? why target RB?

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi - Chaos didn't out Toto, Arc did. Chaos giving guilty on Toto would always happen regardless of Chaos' alignment. Once scum!Chaos saw that the nightkill failed he'd know that Arc jailed Toto, and would want to claim her alignment first.

You know what fine. if your gonna chaos conspricy theory I'll give you a counter theory

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. If Chaos is scum, he would have outed Toto as soon as possible. No other option was viable.

Kinda is.. Any cop that found red being put up as a viable lynch pretty much can be turned on any investigation role finding red :/ Like what if it was a watcher? You could have them take the nk and say they killed X. tracker, I tracked X and they took the kill on Y. Rolecop. I checked them and they are VT. or miller. If we start getting paranodia about our 3 confirmed power roles we will just end up killing ourselves.

[Naomi-Tan]

What im saying is; while we still have multiple viable lynch targets why look towards the people who outted a red?

[Naomi-Tan]

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conspiracy-theory
"a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group."
Fits the definition of a conspiracy theory

[Naomi-Tan]

along the same lines. if Arc was so sure that Chaos was red, why would she not jailed them? why target RB?

Why are you asking this? I was just making a point that Chaos isn't confirmed. You cannot argue that he is.

For Arc to not be confirmed, her mafia team would have to agree to no kill. This is highly abnormal and is actually a conspiracy theory. Saying that Chaos is not confirmed because he would have said Toto is scum regardless of his alignment - that is being rational.

You are not understanding. scum!Chaos was always going to say that Toto was scum. His saying that does not confirm him. Chaos is not confirmed.

I have no paranoia about Arc. If scum agreed to no kill in anticipation of this, kudos. But that didn't happen.

What im saying is; while we still have multiple viable lynch targets why look towards the people who outted a red?

Chaos didn't out a red. Also, just because we are not lynching Chaos or Arc today, doesn't mean we shouldn't look at Chaos and Arc.

Pedit: I don't care if what I'm saying is a conspiracy theory or not, I care how plausible it is. It is not true that Chaos is confirmed. scum!Chaos is extremely plausible. It is much less plausible that scum agreed to no kill.

So what your saying is; It is more likely reds would allow one of there own to be killed to get a confirm. rather than getting a no kill result to confirm?

Cause without That Cop positive Toto would just be confirmed as either the target or the killer. So it could been span either way. You are correct though, this was just to prove a point that if we have to suspect Chaos still we also have to suspect Arc. Which is madness given that between the two of them they confirmed red. Like.. if chaos had red called without the jailor confirmation. It could of been; miller claim, a 1v1 (where I think toto was in a better position and would of got a miss lynch) or even a counter claim. the fact it was double posative is why toto went down.

This theory was simply an exercise to prove that if we suspect chaos we also have to conciser arc. Now I don't think either of them are reds and wish us to move onto logical lynch targets. preferable nero as the other possible lynch targets played good.

[Naomi-Tan]

What's your thoughts on LIZ? Do you see benefits If I could confirm him tonight?

there are D5 benefits to that.

If Nero is town. then I guess we'll look to the pool of; Rk, Me Shadow.
So if the cop and you can eliminate two of them and we lynch the 3rd. that means in the rare chance that red isn't within me, nero, rk or shadow that Liz will be the next logical choice followed by mort.

[Naomi-Tan]

Like here is my pref lynch order.

Nero, Shaodw//RK (there about equally as likely to me) Liz and then mort.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hm, Naomi's list and mine pretty much match up. I think that's good?

To be fair we have agreed on a lot of things over the course of the game.

[Naomi-Tan]

You also voted me a lot.

Twice. once on behaviour. once on data. But that second time was me being blinded by numbers rather than behaviour.