Mini 1811 [Game Over]

[Trivium]

Cool. I was wondering what we were going to get in a 9-3 game.
VOTE: MURDERCAT
BECAUSE I HATE TYPING IN CAPS

[Trivium]

Hi, everyone!

VOTE: evilpacman18

You can't do that, you have to vote for someone different in rvs, otherwise you look like scum trying to wagon.

[Trivium]

Why wagon at this point, you don't know anything... do you?

[Trivium]

That's precisely why I voted evilpacman18, to move the game forward and maybe learn something.

A better question would be: why aren't you voting evilpacman18? I think you should..

Why do you think I should? How would that move the game along? Obviously I'm trying to pressure you, so isn't that how I should be moving the game along?

[Trivium]

That's precisely why I voted evilpacman18, to move the game forward and maybe learn something.

A better question would be: why aren't you voting evilpacman18? I think you should..

Yes yes a wagon on evilpacman!

For those who've never played with him ull thank me later.

You know, I could only find one instance of him being mafia, and that was as ice mafia in a ire and ice game, and I don't think that the way he acted there would be a good clue as to how he would act as maf in a normal game. So I have no idea how I'm going to read that guy in terms of meta.

[Trivium]

Well, the faster wagons form the more serious things get in my opinion. You can move the game forward in multiple ways clearly.

It seems like you're trying to force this conversation, if I were you I'd just vote evilpacman18 and wait for more people to check in.

Of course you would, you did. And yes, I am trying to force this conversation, thank you very much.

[Trivium]

Never mind he was town that game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60340

Still one tough son of a gun to read so not a bad day 1 wagon

I noticed that in his town games. In fact, he tends to get lynched for it pretty often.

[Trivium]

Hydra?

Are hydras allowed in this?

[Trivium]

Are you sure? What made you make that vote?

I think that Trivium is slightly town-aligned.

On what grounds?

He sounds like he thinks he knows what he's doing.

I don't understand what prompted your response in 30, could you explain?

Of course I know what I'm doing, I'm.... the best at this game. Yup.

[Trivium]

Anyways I don't like that reaction thinking I'm town like that, seems like scum trying to appeal.

[Trivium]

I mean, just because I sound like I think I know what I'm doing doesn't mean I'm not scum. Go ahead and come up with another reason why I'm town.

[Trivium]

Vote: Trivium

actual vote on actual mafia

Oh fuck me, this guy.

Why did I join this.

You better start talking about what's going on, scum.

[Trivium]

Vote: Trivium

actual vote on actual mafia

Oh fuck me, this guy.

Why did I join this.

You better start talking about what's going on, scum.

I wouldnt worry about it

I would. What is your opinion on current events?

[Trivium]

Should I be reading you as scum-aligned?

I don't understand what your problem with me is, or what "appeal" is.

And it is a good reason to read you as town-aligned! It means that you are to some extent confident and self-assured, which in my experience is a town-aligned trait. In any case, I'm town-aligned and I don't see how "having bad reasons" would make me scum-aligned.

No, you should be reading me as town, because I'm town. I just have a problem with people I'm pressuring casually mentioning that they town-read me. Last time that happened, I town-read someone for it and they one the game as mafia.

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

Youre both town.

Lets make a townbloc

I hope you're joking.

[Trivium]

VOTE: JarJar

Serious/chainsaw vote

What is this.

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp

I dont like those things either.

I am ok with this.

[Trivium]

I see a couple of sides have been created. I don't like how fast people are wagoning iraonavp, especially this early in the day. I don't like it at all.

[Trivium]

Well, his basis apparently was that I sounded like I knew what I was doing. First of all I don't, and second of all that's not a town tell. Scum would come up with something like this to get somebody to stop pressuring them, whereas town wouldn't be trying to get people off of them that way. However, I don't believe that that's enough of a basis to lynch someone for. I think based on how fast this wagon formed, there's probably scum on it.

[Trivium]

VOTE: Iraonvp

I think I will always think you are scum in every game. Let's wagon this so I can get a read here please.

VOTE: iraonavp

Wagon, yo. Also, don't like early townreads with no real basis. Generally comes from scum.

these are examples of bad sheeping

[Trivium]

Especially murdercat's.

[Trivium]

Well, his basis apparently was that I sounded like I knew what I was doing. First of all I don't, and second of all that's not a town tell. Scum would come up with something like this to get somebody to stop pressuring them, whereas town wouldn't be trying to get people off of them that way. However, I don't believe that that's enough of a basis to lynch someone for. I think based on how fast this wagon formed, there's probably scum on it.

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

Your vote belongs somewhere else

Don't do that. Don't tell people where to put their vote at this stage in the game. It's a scumtell.

Murder is town as well with IaI.

Muder is next after jarjar

Wow that's pretty quick there buddy. Can you... I don't know, maybe... back up your statements?

[Trivium]

If its a scumtell vote me.

Based on what you said in 61 you dont support a lynch on your current vote.

Stop hindering my way of getting an early game townbloc

Early game townbloc is the stupidest idea since the backwards toilet paper roll. Sure, it would be nice, but you don't know who's town and who's not. Or at least, you shouldn't. Also, please back up your statements with reasoning and stuff. VOTE: Mafioso

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp

Wagon, yo. Also, don't like early townreads with no real basis. Generally comes from scum.

Opportunism

VOTE: Iraonvp

I think I will always think you are scum in every game. Let's wagon this so I can get a read here please.

Looks like an RVS and honestly not as serious as one above.

LOL jaereed is confirmed town

[Trivium]

Also I'm town, jaereed is town, that leaves 7 town to three mafia, so everybody else has almost a 1/3 chance of being mafia. That terrifies me. And no, you haven't.

[Trivium]

Explain your town reads Mafioso. Do that and I will be content.

[Trivium]

The IC sheeped me, by the way. I still don't understand your townread on IaI, but I feel like I'm not going to get much out of you.

[Trivium]

Mainly town. His vote may have seemed opportunistic, but he also added an FOS on IaI with kind of solid reasoning, so that's a town-read from me. However I would like it if he gave his opinion on other things as well, such as my scum-read on yourself.

[Trivium]

If we should be voting anyone for opportunistic voting it should be MURDERCATS.

[Trivium]

Well its too bad you want to obstruct my reads but hey.

You are your own person

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. What can I be doing that 'obstructs your reads'

[Trivium]

ironavp is town tho -_-

can we plz stop being so interested in him and find scum

Please... make a case on why you think he is town.

[Trivium]

Like how is a 2nd vote on someone in any way 'opportunistic'

he's just making stuff up

It's opportunistic when you don't add anything. Done.

[Trivium]

ironavp is town tho -_-

can we plz stop being so interested in him and find scum

Please... make a case on why you think he is town.

Why the fuck do you want a case on a town read?

Because I think he's scum, and I'm wondering why you think he is town. Do you have a counterpoint? Or any reasoning? No? Well then you can fuck off.

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

Youre both town.

Lets make a townbloc

oh man we are going to butt heads really hard this game

I know you are most likely town.

Talk with me. Your points on Triv are good, but i think hes being dumbtown tbh

He's not, I just played a game with Triv

He's scum, look at the way he opened all nervous about wagons for no reason, and he is criticizing some players for wagoning with him but not others? He doesn't make any sense from a town pov.

He criticized players who hopped on the IaI wagon without explaining their reads but liked Jarjar's vote on the wagon for some reason, yet his top (contrived) critique of Jarjar is that he isn't explaining his reads.

He's already caught up in contradicting ideas and its only page 4 lol

I liked jarjar's vote because it paralleled with mine. NOt much I can say about that one. Didn't seem too opportunistic either because the wagon hadn't picked up and he said multiple times that he simply agreed with what I said.

[Trivium]

You are the dumbest fucking townie Ive met.

Then I'm the dumbest fucking townie you've ever met who thinks he knows things. I've had this so many times, seriously it seems like scum in every game I play claims I'm dumber than a sack of sticks. Well... ok.

[Trivium]

It seems like I've developed that weird sense of partnership with jarjar that I really don't want because I don't quite completely townread jarjar again.

[Trivium]

Everyone who is active besides jarjar is most likely town.

I doubt more than 1 mafia is participating.

Jrjar isnt scum with Triv so I have to pick one or the other.

That's probably true. Lol, I'd be so pissed if it was something like Tam-Evilpacman-Accountant.

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

None of those are scum-aligned at all, you just described things that I did!

VOTE: Iraonvp

I think I will always think you are scum in every game. Let's wagon this so I can get a read here please.

You're saying that you think I appear scum-aligned in this game, yet you're voting me under the pretense of trying to get a read on me. That's a scum-aligned way of reasoning a vote, kind of.

It's not exactly that, but there's something about the way this post is phrased that I really don't like.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Well obviously I think that the things you did were scum-aligned. I like the vote though.

[Trivium]

UNVOTE: Town Mafioso Purely because of the amount he's posted. I don't think at this point it's very likely that maf would post so much in the beginning.

[Trivium]

What exactly is this townslip people are talking about.

[Trivium]

You guys are bad at mafia

Either they are scum or town. Does this imply you think they are town?

[Trivium]

What exactly is this townslip people are talking about.

Remember when JJD was sheeping you without giving reasons? That's a townslip. Mafia has an obsession with justifying everything they do and giving long lists of reasons for doing stuff. That doesn't mean that people who justify themselves excessively are mafia, but it does mean that people who don't are town. I feel like a mafia JJD would have come up with a better reason than "sheep lol" in order to look good, which is another thing mafia are obsessed with.

Oh. I thought people were talking about some kind of ira townslip

[Trivium]

I like the cut of your jib.

[Trivium]

basically iraonvp is playing exactly like someone I would push for an easy lynch if I was mafia so I'm just assuming he's town and finding the more likely mafias

Maybe he seems like that because he's mafia.

[Trivium]

Will the confirmed town please stand up and say something?

[Trivium]

Will the confirmed town please stand up and say something?

Sure. I think you're scum.

Also I'm Australian. Time zone is different to yours. Don't be impatient.

Murder is town. High confidence in this.

Sorry about that. What does your confidence come from?

[Trivium]

Accountant strikes town, but not evilpacman. Can't really read much of this, and I have to try really hard not to make up some random BS. The let's lynch xkfyu as a joke thing is really awkward, to the point where I feel like it's scummy, but weirdly scummy like it's trying to be too obvious. I also don't like how bacde brought up a previous game and claimed that jarjar had a grudge on him for being maf in it.

[Trivium]

You know what, youre right

This is my scum play to defend town.

Problem is: im not lynching obvious fucking town in ira/triv.

More accountant votes plz

Oh fuck its also my meta to go after strong players.

Welp lynch me

Nah.

I just dont give a shit on what you have to say since we are going to agree to disagree

Nah.

I just give a shit on what you have to say since we are going to agree to disagree

Are we all just going to ignore this?

[Trivium]

"You're right, this is my scum play" Strikes me as scummy. That's a defense. "Welp lynch me" Is the same thing. Defensive scum play. Also the quote change thing seems like he's caring too much about what he's saying and how he's saying it.

[Trivium]

Xkfyu entered in a pretty townie way to me.

[Trivium]

if you can't tell what the thread of my read on him is, I thought he was town earlier on, Accountant pointed out some stuff that I agreed could be a case for a scum read, but I felt like his tone obscures his intent, so I'm just waiting on deciding on that one. Idk why it's surprising to anyone that I think someone who writes kinda strange is the hardest to read in the game, but JarJar is way off the mark to say that he's the only person I've been ignoring.

Lol @ "Way off the mark". YOU were the one that said there wasn't much material for anyone to have a read there.

See now you're changing your story. Now what you're saying is you were townreading him earlier but you're not sure about that read because of Accountants case. That's a pretty far cry from basically saying: I have no read because he hasn't said anything.

The changing the story bit is reachy and kind of twisting what bacde is saying.

[Trivium]

i want to see pacman's defense before I say anything

This is definitely a townie post. Scum would just wait, this is kind of pushing just the right way.

[Trivium]

"You're right, this is my scum play" Strikes me as scummy. That's a defense. "Welp lynch me" Is the same thing. Defensive scum play. Also the quote change thing seems like he's caring too much about what he's saying and how he's saying it.

This is lazy scumhunting. Why is that more likely to come from scum?

This is a lazy question. I think it's kind of obvious, but I guess I'll elaborate. The quote change posts struck me as if he was thinking too much about how he was putting his words, especially on a post that looked like it was trying to be townie by saying he didn't give a shit what the other person had to say or whatever, which not only is pretty irritating but also LAMIST. "You're right, this is my scum play" and "Welp, lynch me" is the sort of posts that mafioso has been putting out repetitively, in a kind of baiting manner. From all the games I've played, that type of "welp, lynch me" always comes from scum. It's scum trying to act townie by trying to make it obvious that they don't care about being lynched, which while it is townie when done sparsely, if it's repetitive like this it's scummy.

[Trivium]

vote: trivium

seriously

Just because you think someone is bad doesn't meant they are scum. I understand this vote, but I feel like he's probably town who isn't reading well.

I don't think he's bad???

[Trivium]

"You're right, this is my scum play" Strikes me as scummy. That's a defense. "Welp lynch me" Is the same thing. Defensive scum play. Also the quote change thing seems like he's caring too much about what he's saying and how he's saying it.

This feels like it could be playstyle though, there are a lot of players who will act like this. I overall don't get a feeling of defensiveness from TM.

pacmans defense satisfies me

Out of curiosity- there seems to be an awful lot of people jumping around pointing fingers really early on- but really meaning it, not just to speed things along for clues...is this typical nowadays? It used to be a mafia warning sign...

Hey Tam, how many games have you completed on this site?

$5 says trivium isn't going to like how you are satisfied with pacman's defense because he was subtely trying to encourage you to push pacman (he was trying to mislynch pacman the townie)

You can send it through the post.

[Trivium]

This is just a personal request but in the future can you abstain from using reaction gifs as replies

1) mobile data murders me
2) obnoxious
3) great way to look like you said something without saying anything

Of course.

[Trivium]

vote: trivium

seriously

Just because you think someone is bad doesn't meant they are scum. I understand this vote, but I feel like he's probably town who isn't reading well.

I don't think he's bad???

Well no, you think he's scum. I think he's town who looks like scum (aka bad).

See, I don't get this. If you think I look like scum, why do you think I'm town?

[Trivium]

I'm realizing that TM might sound forced like that because whoever the account is an alt for is trying out a different playstyle.

[Trivium]

That's a pretty far cry from basically saying: I have no read because he hasn't said anything.

That's not remotely close to anything I "basically said"

Rn i don't think iraon is anything and I don't see much material for anyone else to have a read there. But I would also understand if people read him in either direction

How is

"i don't think iraon is anything and I don't see much material for anyone else to have a read there."

much different than

"I have no read because he hasn't said anything"

?

Jarjar... this is more of t hat misrepresenting I was talking about.

[Trivium]

My wagon is pretty bullshit. Just going to put that out there. I mean, I have a bunch of people voting me because of a gutread of Murder, who's obviously distancing themselves from my lynch by being weirdly indecisive. That beginning bit that murdercat seems all 'pinged' about is really just me fucking around to get out of rvs as fast as possible because I don't get the point of it. I'm not going to defend myself any more either, so you can either fuck off or mislynch. I don't think murdercat is mafia, but evilpacman is obviously sheeping hard and I'm just disappointed with the confirmed town.

[Trivium]

Vote: Iaminnocent

This is a scum that all of town should agree with lynching

Anyways, while I'm here- Why?

[Trivium]

I'm not going to defend myself any more either, so you can either fuck off or mislynch.

This is the scum claim. First of all this level of "anger" is usually a matter of pent up frustration, it doesn't just come out in one post, especially since Trivium isn't THAT much more under pressure than he was in his last couple posts and he wasn't particularly angry there. It's very early for the "mislynch me" ultimatum, which indicates that we're probably on the right track here.

Fuck off and check my meta. If you got written off as the village idiot every game you played, you'd be pissed off too. I scumread you anyways, so I don't really care about your vote. I was just ticked that the confirmed town decided to vote me.

[Trivium]

Is bacde's thing on Iai because they are lurking?

[Trivium]

Iraon is dodging like hell. I mean wow it seems like he has the ability to ignore everything all the time. Sorry if I don't quite understand what just went down because I didn't read a lot of it, but I can see iraon dodging every question that comes to him. I've seen it before coming from flustered town though, and I think the last 2 pages were just a WIFOM bomb. I'm not sure what to make of this.

[Trivium]

I dunno maybe he wasn't quite dodging or anything like that... I think that was just an inability to answer the question because of miscommunication.

[Trivium]

Don't engage with iraon, he knows he's caught and is jamming up the thread with pages of evasive bs and accusing everyone who jumps on him.

No, that's just what you're saying so nobody changes their mind and you lose your position. If I was really scum-aligned then you wouldn't need to tell other people to ignore me, it's just you're afraid that what I'm saying will get through to enough people and you will lose your mislynch.

Yeah OK this is a load of bull. Also I'm confused about what's going on and I want to get rid of the confusion so.
VOTE: iraonvp
Give a solid response to the question murdercat asked you. You have like 4 people all saying the same thing, and one of them is the IC.

[Trivium]

No, I answered every question I can. It's just that MURDERCAT pretends like I didn't answer the question and asks it again, to create the illusion that I am being evasive.

Except jae also thinks the same. Is jae also mafia contributing to the illusion? Holy shit your arguments are downright absurd

You do realize JaeReed is innocent child...

You and MURDERCAT are scum-aligned trying to make me look bad. JaeReed is just mislead.

No, this s the most ironic post I've seen. You're scum trying to make them look bad, and you're trying to also do it to the IC.

[Trivium]

Actually, not sure on Mafioso being town. The insistence that Triv is dumb town pings me in a large way.

See, you are just saying anyone who disagrees with you is scum-aligned, but you're actually the one who's wrong because of previous fragile opinions.

I think that Town Mafioso is somewhat town-aligned, anyway. Probably my strongest town-aligned read other than JaeReed, I don't have many town-aligned reads yet.

This troubles me because I scumread mafioso and it seems like he can't be partnered with iraon because iraon townreads mafioso when he has a wagon on him.

[Trivium]

Don't engage with iraon, he knows he's caught and is jamming up the thread with pages of evasive bs and accusing everyone who jumps on him.

No, that's just what you're saying so nobody changes their mind and you lose your position. If I was really scum-aligned then you wouldn't need to tell other people to ignore me, it's just you're afraid that what I'm saying will get through to enough people and you will lose your mislynch.

Yeah OK this is a load of bull. Also I'm confused about what's going on and I want to get rid of the confusion so.
VOTE: iraonvp
Give a solid response to the question murdercat asked you. You have like 4 people all saying the same thing, and one of them is the IC.

I did already explain why, several times. You are clearly confused and not reading properly.

Only three people are saying that, and two of them are scum-aligned... That's a bad reason to vote me.

Holy shit first of all it's four, I'm asking you to as well, and second of all answer the fucking question.

[Trivium]

No, I answered every question I can. It's just that MURDERCAT pretends like I didn't answer the question and asks it again, to create the illusion that I am being evasive.

Except jae also thinks the same. Is jae also mafia contributing to the illusion? Holy shit your arguments are downright absurd

You do realize JaeReed is innocent child...

You and MURDERCAT are scum-aligned trying to make me look bad. JaeReed is just mislead.

No, this s the most ironic post I've seen. You're scum trying to make them look bad, and you're trying to also do it to the IC.

No I'm town-aligned! I already said I know JaeReed is innocent child, that's impossible.

Oh my gosh I'm town aligned too! I know! We can be town buddies! Since you told me, I know you're town, and since I told you, you know I'm town! This plan is foolproof!

[Trivium]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

[Trivium]

I don't have many town-aligned reads yet.

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

I dont like this wagon. I think scum might just be in the inactives.

If I had a scum buddy like iraon I would be inactive too

In fact, I'm pretty sure the people who have been posting (bar ira) are town.

[Trivium]

How would you expect scum to react to the back and forth with Ira if Ira was indeed town? Because if I had to point a finger at anything to describe it it'd be what Trivium posted around that time.

"Hey guys, I'll be busy for the next day so I won't be around to post much. [insert previously established strong read] is still town/scum." then sit back and watch ira dig his own grave

See, look! MURDERCAT probably told Accountant in the mafia chat that if I was accused that I would dig my own grave, how would Accountant know that I usually get mislynched otherwise?

This is paranoia, but it's reaching paranoia. Scummy paranoia. Aware that the mafia have daychat paranoia.

[Trivium]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

[Trivium]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

I am saying that because I

am

obvious town. And I will continue to say it, if I wish to poke fun at people who know it's true but are pretending I am not as townie as I actually am.

This needs to stop right the fuck now. I am not having this happen again. Explain why you're townie. I can't believe I'm agreeing with the grasping for straws iraonscum.

[Trivium]

By default, scum possess both day and night chat.

Was already confirmed... We just forgot.

...Someone would have saved iraon from himself by now if he had a partner, surely?

I would of just given up and bussed at this point honestly.

[Trivium]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

I am saying that because I

am

obvious town. And I will continue to say it, if I wish to poke fun at people who know it's true but are pretending I am not as townie as I actually am.

This needs to stop right the fuck now. I am not having this happen again. Explain why you're townie. I can't believe I'm agreeing with the grasping for straws iraonscum.

Lol. You can read me however you want for whatever reasons you want, but there's a reason everyone is town reading me.

NAH. Explain that reason please. And not everyone is townreading you. VOTE: MURDERCAT

[Trivium]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

I am saying that because I

am

obvious town. And I will continue to say it, if I wish to poke fun at people who know it's true but are pretending I am not as townie as I actually am.

This needs to stop right the fuck now. I am not having this happen again. Explain why you're townie. I can't believe I'm agreeing with the grasping for straws iraonscum.

Lol. You can read me however you want for whatever reasons you want, but there's a reason everyone is town reading me.

NAH. Explain that reason please. And not everyone is townreading you. VOTE: MURDERCAT

This vote literally could not intimidate me less.

Which pisses me off. Please just do that thing for me and explain why you're town. Please do that. Otherwise you will be 100% scum to me for the rest of the game.

[Trivium]

NAH. Explain that reason please. And not everyone is townreading you. VOTE: MURDERCAT

Don't derp. I'd hate for it to be incorrectly assumed you're ira's partner and was trying to start a counterwagon since I'm finally townreading you.

I don't care. Murdercat is either going to explain themselves or I'm going to be doing this.

[Trivium]

Town loses the game to "obv town" scum, you realize that right jaereed? You're entire townread on him seems to be just based on meta, so maybe you can explain why you townread him better. That's all you gotta do, and I'm back to an iraon vote because he's scummy as hell.

[Trivium]

*your

[Trivium]

VOTE: Iraonvp Thank you.

[Trivium]

NAH. Explain that reason please. And not everyone is townreading you. VOTE: MURDERCAT

Don't derp. I'd hate for it to be incorrectly assumed you're ira's partner and was trying to start a counterwagon since I'm finally townreading you.

I don't care. Murdercat is either going to explain themselves or I'm going to be doing this.

There's no point in asking someone to towncase themselves because they're obviously going to think everything they do is town motivated. Because if they're town everything they're posting is from a town viewpoint. If they're scum, they're trying to look town and will think everything shows a town motivation because of it.

Like, you can't honestly expect him to give you reasons why he thinks he's obvtown. That's completely unfair because there is no way he can prove that.

P-Edit: NEVERMIND then carry on.

I understand that, but purely from experience I lost a game to a mafia who bluffed like hell through the game with the exact kind of post that murdercat gave, and I promised myself never to let it happen again. Experience>prettymucheverythingelse

[Trivium]

like an IAI/Town Mafioso scumteam seems pretty probable to me right now

+1

I can agree with that.

[Trivium]

Triv, I though Iraon looked scummy to you.

He does.

[Trivium]

vote: IAI

I am implying iraon is town and MURDERCAT'S pushing is silly

Why? Also again why scumread IaI?

[Trivium]

I want Iraon dead because I think he's scummy. So of course I'm going to say how the IC agrees with me about that because I want Iraon dead. Anyways, I'm probably going to need a replacement because I'll be gone for two weeks starting sunday.

[Trivium]

Why call him out about scumreading someone ur also scumreading?

What

[Trivium]

I guess my response to that post would be... I scumread mafioso so I'd be down with lynching him. IaI is also a good policy lynch.

[Trivium]

Ira is obvious town to me. Scum would leap at the chance to lynch me right now. My wagon has gotten way too filled way too fast, and I haven't been playing very scummy this game so I do think that my lynch is going to put things in perspective for people. At this point either the rest of the town is terrible and doomed anyway or I have about 2 scum on my wagon. Please... oh god please once I'm lynched don't let scum push what I just said into the village idiot category, that's all I ask. I'm vanilla town and when I die I want murdercat and evilpacman looked at closely. Thank you.

[Trivium]

UNVOTE:

[Trivium]

Town mafioso
Murdercat
bacde
eviipacman
I'm convinced there's two mafia in here somewhere. I guess I'll see if I'm right in two weeks. Good luck.

[Trivium]

Triv's back off of Ira isn't good, IMO.

Fuck off

[Trivium]

Why the hell wouldn't scum vote me at this point? You tell me a good reason for that, and I'll fucking vote myself.

[Trivium]

Especially someone who previously scumread him so much. EDIT: I am.

[Trivium]

I feel like my opinion doesn't even matter at this point anyways because every time I die my opinion is written off as dumb. How could he get cred for not voting me? What the hell

[Trivium]

If anything he would get town cred for voting me because the IC is sheep voting me like an idiot.

[Trivium]

You are literally giving him town cred right now for not voting you. If you flipped town and he was on the wagon he is more likely to be scum read than if he were not on the wagon.

Fuck you're right

[Trivium]

Well I don't even know anymore.

[Trivium]

Question: Has anyone other than Trivium claimed he was an idiot, or stupid, or any of this? I don't recall it anywhere but in your defensive posts, and repeatedly there, like you are trying the 'woe is me- everyone attacks me' card. I think maybe if you defended yourself, or attempted to, instead of just constantly saying 'why bother? noone will believe me and they'll all think i'm stupid' type things, you might gain more ground (if you do have a valid point). The way you jump around with your triple posts and this whole routine just makes me feel more confident in my vote.

Check my meta. I'm pissed. Everyone looks scummy to me and everyone looks town, I have no idea what I'm doing and I desperately want everybody else to know that I do, so that my opinion matters at all when at this point I'm actually convinced that it actually doesn't. I think I need a break from this game.

[Trivium]

Well look at that 3 of those scumreads I had are on my wagon golly gee.

[Trivium]

I wonder if in any of these games the mod has been voted by over half the town as a joke.

[Trivium]

I'm having a terrible day.

[Trivium]

Oooooeerr ok, I will definitely do that in future.

VOTE: Trivium

Trivium, I really think you are scummy, but if you are not, I will feel really bad about this. I just don't think I will. I have to keep my vote there. Can you come back with some sort of defense?

Well, I'm not even really sure what people are voting me about anyways.

[Trivium]

Ohh... I have one. How about the fact that we were all looking at ira being scum, and then I just happened to be quickly voted by a bunch of people, a couple of them which haven't posted very frequently?

[Trivium]

Or how about the fact that I haven't seen anyone make a solid case on me?

[Trivium]

Burden of proof. Prove to me that I'm scum somehow, and tell me why, and then I'll either tell you that you're wrong and why or be like "Actually yeah, if I were you I'd vote me too, carry on."

[Trivium]

Burden of proof. Prove to me that I'm scum somehow, and tell me why, and then I'll either tell you that you're wrong and why or be like "Actually yeah, if I were you I'd vote me too, carry on."

Actually don't carry on, because I'm town.

[Trivium]

If I were to refuse to vote Accountant today (because I think they'll be an asset if town) and murdercat (because I used to have a fairly confident tr on him and because of Jae's meta, which could count for a lot), who would you have me vote d1, Trivium?

Iraon. I made a mistake thinking that he would vote me if he was scum, and murdercat corrected me on that. VOTE: Iraonvp I've cleared my head a bit.

[Trivium]

And....going back to read up on all the things they've been saying is just too hard? I feel it's extremely scummy to just sit there and go, "Oh well, it's useless. Why bother?" which seems to be your entire defense. Like you don't believe you are good, so why would we? What's the point in trying to defend it?
#PacifismPissesMeOff! (A joke, but really this does irritate me.)

I was not suspicious of you enough to actually vote you just based off what they said, not nearly as much as now that I saw how you reacted to it all. For me, that is what cemented my vote. I do not think you are stupid, or the village idiot, but rather disinterested and maybe a bit lazy....oh and scummy.

I give up.

Well then you're wrong, because I am very interested in this game and have been looking through quite a lot of it.

[Trivium]

It seems like everyone who's on my wagon hasn't even explained themselves. It's really weird because it seems like everybody on my wagon is sheeping everybody else. I honestly would like to hear some reasoning as to why I'm scum so I can defend myself rather than feeling sorry for myself. And in that sense I'd have to say that I agree with tam, my defense has practically consisted of purely being pissed off, but I can't defend myself if you guys don't attack.

[Trivium]

unvote

I'm still willing to lynch Xkfyu as a joke Triv

No, You're not doing this. If you genuinely feel bad about voting me, you can tell me why you did it in the first place.

[Trivium]

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

Youre both town.

Lets make a townbloc

oh man we are going to butt heads really hard this game

I know you are most likely town.

Talk with me. Your points on Triv are good, but i think hes being dumbtown tbh

He's not, I just played a game with Triv

He's scum, look at the way he opened all nervous about wagons for no reason, and he is criticizing some players for wagoning with him but not others? He doesn't make any sense from a town pov.

He criticized players who hopped on the IaI wagon without explaining their reads but liked Jarjar's vote on the wagon for some reason, yet his top (contrived) critique of Jarjar is that he isn't explaining his reads.

He's already caught up in contradicting ideas and its only page 4 lol

Mainly town. His vote may have seemed opportunistic, but he also added an FOS on IaI with kind of solid reasoning, so that's a town-read from me. However I would like it if he gave his opinion on other things as well, such as my scum-read on yourself.

omg this is such obvious bs man its page 4 why are you explaining so much

no town would have thought this much about things already you are just spewing stuff to sound good lol

This is all I could find about your scumread on me, bacde. And not a lot of it makes much sense. I don't get what you were talking about with the nervous wagons. Criticized some players for wagoning me but not others because I thought some players were just sheeping with me and I don't like sheeping whether it's with me or not. At least at that point jarjar added some stuff to it as well. Contradicting ideas is NAI, and I actually townread it.

[Trivium]

And for 87 my answer to that is that I play one game at a time, so I'm hyperfocused on everything that happens no matter what point in the game it is at. Post 78 was fine, I don't get your problem with it.

[Trivium]

I'm not going to defend myself any more either, so you can either fuck off or mislynch.

This is the scum claim. First of all this level of "anger" is usually a matter of pent up frustration, it doesn't just come out in one post, especially since Trivium isn't THAT much more under pressure than he was in his last couple posts and he wasn't particularly angry there. It's very early for the "mislynch me" ultimatum, which indicates that we're probably on the right track here.

I don't know how to defend myself against this. If you think my anger was manufactured, sure. I don't know how I'm supposed to say it's not, other than just tell you that I get legitimately angry when I'm voted as town, and that mislynching me should matter to you whether or not it's early in the game or later.

[Trivium]

I don't post larger posts because I feel like there's no reason for me to, unless I'm making a case or some exceptions. I feel like I do post a lot of content, but whether or not I do, I don't really care because I'm at least posting what I know at whatever moment I know it. I guess I just have a lot of time so I can just say what I think whenever I want to.

[Trivium]

Tam, if people being really passive about stuff is scummy to you, why aren't you voting Imp? Seriously this is some of the most passive play I've ever seen, I think it's NAI but what's your read on her tam?

[Trivium]

Murdercat's vote on me is weird because the only reasoning for it I can find is 383 and in 401 he claims he's not pushing for my lynch, even though he made a case against me... and the case consisted of saying that I was too aggressive for my meta, which is not a good reason to scumread someone in the first place, especially because I simply like changing the way I play. The other reason he seems to scumread me is because he thinks I should of unvoted at certain points if I was town, which makes sense but is really kind of reachy reasoning to vote for, so murdercat is one of the people I want to hear about why they scumread me.

[Trivium]

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

[Trivium]

I already answered with my defense against Xkfyu, but I'll say it again. He seems to scumread me for using the IC status to try to put more pressure on ira. And I did. I used the IC's status as confirmed town because his opinion is that of confirmed town and means more. That way he was more pressured to actually answer the question, and other people were more likely to sheep the wagon. I just want to add yet again that the dynamics of ira's wagon proved even more that ira was scum- a bunch of probably town players vote and put pressure on him, it slowly builds up with a few other players trying to tear it down with bad reasoning, basically just saying the whole thing is dumb, and then a counterwagon happens to crop up from those players on one of the people voting for ira, who I know is town because that person is me.

[Trivium]

Or how about the fact that I haven't seen anyone make a solid case on me?

You mean that no one has made a huge post with quotes about you. Thats different than not having a case. I've posted multiple elements of a case against you stop whining

I've recognized that and responded. How about you be a pal and help out with the iraon lynch?

[Trivium]

Huh? I don't understand why you read her as passive? She just joined and is in my opinion forward and not shy with her questions..I don't find that passive. Also, noone has challenged her yet, so she should not be defensive....please explain. I don't get this question at all.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you meant by passive. I meant that she seems really unsure about her scum reads, which some people might think is scummy.

[Trivium]

trivium who else besides irao is scum

I thought you just said scum unvoted you??

who is that scum?

You.

[Trivium]

responding to elements of a case don't negate that you've had scummy behaviors this game. Responding doesn't really mean anything tbh

I haven't had scummy behaviors this game, or at least not that many scummy behaviors. I don't expect to convince you of that though, I was just pointing out why these 'scummy behaviors' you talked about were invalid.

[Trivium]

trivium who else besides irao is scum

I thought you just said scum unvoted you??

who is that scum?

Here's a list
Bacde
Iraon
Evilpacman

[Trivium]

trivium if you keep pushing iraonavp I'm going to revote you btw

I was just about to say the same thing. Not so much for that reason, but really...

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

So, you get that after talking yourself out of a hole, just a little, it's probably the worst idea ever to then attack the very people you just convinced that you weren't an asshole? I'm just sayin'...

I can scumread people who I think is scum. I believe the only reason bacde unvoted me was to seem town by unvoting someone who is town, and who he has no legitimate case against.. I also believe that he will revote me because I believe that, trying to come back more aggressive to seem like he isn't doing the very thing I just said. Now I'm thinking you're probably scum for this very post that seems to indirectly defend him.

[Trivium]

trivium if you keep pushing iraonavp I'm going to revote you btw

I was just about to say the same thing. Not so much for that reason, but really...

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

So, you get that after talking yourself out of a hole, just a little, it's probably the worst idea ever to then attack the very people you just convinced that you weren't an asshole? I'm just sayin'...

trivium who else besides irao is scum

I thought you just said scum unvoted you??

who is that scum?

You.

Triv I'm trying to work with you because your pity party made me think you might be town

but if you aren't going to use this moment to work with me and help me find scum I'm just gonna end up revoting you dude

Seriously man

Your incessant pushing of Irao who is not getting lynched today is like a huge crux of why I'm voting you, so work with me and find an actual scum

This is obviously scum working together.

[Trivium]

Calling the scum team right now. It's bacde, tam, and iraon.

[Trivium]

Do I get a prize?

[Trivium]

trivium who else besides irao is scum

Irao who is not getting lynched today

[Trivium]

Failure quote but I have a point here. I see scum defending a scumpartner by making absolutely no case, but simply saying that their lynch isn't going to happen.

[Trivium]

Do I get a prize?

Ummm yes, you do! VOTE: Trivium Seriously man, I tried so hard to help you figure out what you were doing wrong and correct it, in the hopes that you were innocent and just really misunderstood.

I don't play around with the wishy washy 'you're great, you're horrible' back and forth players. I find it real scummy. Your opinion of people should not sway like trees in the wind. It can change, of course, but not so radically. You are really grasping for anything.. I'm pretty sure about you now.

I tried.

Vote me because I got it right. There's no case here. There's no reasoning. I'm sure that you're scum, and I'm sure that I'm right.

[Trivium]

trivium if you keep pushing iraonavp I'm going to revote you btw

I was just about to say the same thing. Not so much for that reason, but really...

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

So, you get that after talking yourself out of a hole, just a little, it's probably the worst idea ever to then attack the very people you just convinced that you weren't an asshole? I'm just sayin'...

trivium who else besides irao is scum

I thought you just said scum unvoted you??

who is that scum?

You.

Triv I'm trying to work with you because your pity party made me think you might be town

but if you aren't going to use this moment to work with me and help me find scum I'm just gonna end up revoting you dude

Seriously man

Your incessant pushing of Irao who is not getting lynched today is like a huge crux of why I'm voting you, so work with me and find an actual scum

This is obviously scum working together.

this read is so bad...

is it possible scum would purposely make such a terrible read?

this is the philosophical question I have to answer

Why. Why is it a bad read bacde. Give me something. Give me anything to suggest that it's a bad read.

[Trivium]

I need other people than scum to start posting again. I really do because I just found the scum team.

[Trivium]

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

This is stupid man I've been saying all game why I thought you were scummy

No, you've been saying all game you thought the AFKs were scummy.

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

This is stupid man I've been saying all game why I thought you were scummy

Thinking Jarjar could be scum

So why, when you doubt your case, do you do what you're doing now instead of looking at your other scumreads who are also being voted?

Bacde, is it you in there?

Its more like I am willing to lynch the AFKs than I think being AFK is scummy

I want to see how trivium will react because I'm not 100% on my scumread of him, how is this hard to figure out?

So now you're just 'looking for a reaction' I'm pretty sure I've reacted enough at this point bacde. You're scum.

[Trivium]

I need other people than scum to start posting again. I really do because I just found the scum team.

you think all the scum are conspiring together on d1 just to get a mislynch of you across?

dude do I really seem like I'm playing like I did last game even?

I don't go by meta very much, but yes, you do. Not only that but even if you didn't that would make sense because you wouldn't want to play the way you did last game when there are multiple players who are in this game who played that one with you.

[Trivium]

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

This is stupid man I've been saying all game why I thought you were scummy

No, you've been saying all game you thought the AFKs were scummy.

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

This is stupid man I've been saying all game why I thought you were scummy

Thinking Jarjar could be scum

So why, when you doubt your case, do you do what you're doing now instead of looking at your other scumreads who are also being voted?

Bacde, is it you in there?

Its more like I am willing to lynch the AFKs than I think being AFK is scummy

I want to see how trivium will react because I'm not 100% on my scumread of him, how is this hard to figure out?

So now you're just 'looking for a reaction' I'm pretty sure I've reacted enough at this point bacde. You're scum.

Dude it would be so easy for me to just lynch you right now if thats what I wanted but instead I'm trying to understand you and you are convinced I'm scum because of it?

Go ahead and fucking try, just the scum team is not enough to get a lynch.

[Trivium]

trivium if you keep pushing iraonavp I'm going to revote you btw

I was just about to say the same thing. Not so much for that reason, but really...

Scum made a mistake by voting me, because now it seems like they're backing off and don't want to be involved with it anymore. I want to hear from bacde, murdercat, and evilpacman as to why they thought I was scummy.

So, you get that after talking yourself out of a hole, just a little, it's probably the worst idea ever to then attack the very people you just convinced that you weren't an asshole? I'm just sayin'...

trivium who else besides irao is scum

I thought you just said scum unvoted you??

who is that scum?

You.

Triv I'm trying to work with you because your pity party made me think you might be town

but if you aren't going to use this moment to work with me and help me find scum I'm just gonna end up revoting you dude

Seriously man

Your incessant pushing of Irao who is not getting lynched today is like a huge crux of why I'm voting you, so work with me and find an actual scum

This is obviously scum working together.

this read is so bad...

is it possible scum would purposely make such a terrible read?

this is the philosophical question I have to answer

Why. Why is it a bad read bacde. Give me something. Give me anything to suggest that it's a bad read.

Ok, lets start:

How does it seem to you like Tam and I are working together?

Tam can be mafia, sure

But what have we done that makes us "obviously working together"????????

Like that read is so out of left field I don't even know what to make of it

Both of you are trying to convince me of not voting irao without any reasoning behind you at all. tam was indirectly but very obviously trying to get me to stop scumreading you, and both of you are "trying to help me by just getting you off of voting your 'townread'"

[Trivium]

since to him I'm obvtown

Fucking don't

[Trivium]

You think the innocent town would vote with you just because he thinks you're obvtown? Get your head screwed on.

[Trivium]

Triv honestly I think you're just pissed at me right now and not thinking straight

Howabout we compromise and lynch Tam?

Since I agree his 'case' on you sucked and sounded like scum

If you'd like to bus I'm down with that. VOTE: Tam

[Trivium]

vote Tam

lmao @ you thinking I'm bussing

Mafia made a mistake and you're not going to shrug it off by ridiculing my witnessing of it. I'm waiting until town start posting again.

[Trivium]

I'm town and I started posting a whole PAGE AGO. Get on it, Triv!!

Well, I don't have much to say about your posts other than hey seem townie based on the fact that it seems like you're starting to figure out what I'm talking about. Would you say you agree with me, despite being skeptical about me thinking I've found all the scum day one?

[Trivium]

I need other people than scum to start posting again. I really do because I just found the scum team.

Is this a regular occurrence for you, finding all 3 scum with absolute certainty d1?

Because I don't quite believe it.

Also, Tam, I don't like your last post on the previous page. I think that's totally fake. Why would you "hope" your SR is innocent? Why would you be so certain now when you were wishy-washy a moment ago? Sure, this "I got both scum" gimmick is incredibly incriminating, but I don't see how that sudden conviction makes sense. Your forewarning doesn't make it any better.

Predit: Um, what? Bacde? Those last three posts were abysmal, especially when taken in conjunction to the ones you made just this page. Since when have you SR'd Tam?

I don't think you understand my "are you making a town case of me" post

I'm trying to point out to Triv that he isn't making any sense with his flailing and hoping he will cool down and come to his senses tbh

I'm making so much sense and you aren't doing anything to defend yourself except for claim that I'm flailing.

[Trivium]

It's true that my excitement of finding all three scum has reached critical mass, and my post about your meta doesn't make much sense, I do agree. That's why I don't generally look at / care about meta because people can change it or do pretty much anything. Anyways, arguing about it is WIFOM, so it's a matter of opinion and I'll stop. How about everything else though?

[Trivium]

I need other people than scum to start posting again. I really do because I just found the scum team.

Is this a regular occurrence for you, finding all 3 scum with absolute certainty d1?

Because I don't quite believe it.

Also, Tam, I don't like your last post on the previous page. I think that's totally fake. Why would you "hope" your SR is innocent? Why would you be so certain now when you were wishy-washy a moment ago? Sure, this "I got both scum" gimmick is incredibly incriminating, but I don't see how that sudden conviction makes sense. Your forewarning doesn't make it any better.

Predit: Um, what? Bacde? Those last three posts were abysmal, especially when taken in conjunction to the ones you made just this page. Since when have you SR'd Tam?

I don't think you understand my "are you making a town case of me" post

I'm trying to point out to Triv that he isn't making any sense with his flailing and hoping he will cool down and come to his senses tbh

I'm making so much sense and you aren't doing anything to defend yourself except for claim that I'm flailing.

I actually haven't tried to defend myself from your accusations

Well there you go.

[Trivium]

Triv you are posting more now then back when you were not being suspected. That's evidence of scum not wanting to get lynched. Maybe you are town who doesn't know what's going on, but you're a good day 1 lynch, imo. I don't buy the pity party, sorry.

LOL I don't care if anyone 'buys' that, I just wanted some of it off my chest, because I was pissed. I'm posting more now than when I was not being suspected because I found the scum team. What do you think of that whole ordeal, by the way?

[Trivium]

Triv you are posting more now then back when you were not being suspected. That's evidence of scum not wanting to get lynched. Maybe you are town who doesn't know what's going on, but you're a good day 1 lynch, imo. I don't buy the pity party, sorry.

LOL I don't care if anyone 'buys' that, I just wanted some of it off my chest, because I was pissed. I'm posting more now than when I was not being suspected because I found the scum team. What do you think of that whole ordeal, by the way?

this actually seems like a town post to me

The confbias, it is real

Do you really think that after transcend I'm going to back off because scum told me I had confbias?

[Trivium]

Bacde is working way more to get me off of his 'townreads' than he is to get his scumreads lynched. So when he tells me I have confirmation bias it makes me want to laugh.

[Trivium]

I have a sinking feeling both ira and triv could be town.

I disagree, but if that's how you feel then at least vote tam.

[Trivium]

Well, I hope my replacement does a good job. Just to solidify that I'm calling it now: iraon, tam, and bacde.