Newbie #492 - GAME OVER

[Dead Rikimaru]

vote: charliestubbs

For being the last to confirm.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I reccommend prodding the lurkers...

with a large, pointy object.

other than that, I'm not seeing too much...

I see you have been reading old games.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Ladies and gentleman, we have an intruder in our game.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I reccommend prodding the lurkers...

with a large, pointy object.

other than that, I'm not seeing too much...

I see you have been reading old games.

yup. Seems like in every game, one should beware of two people: The loudest one and the quietest one...

You seem to be looking for a fix formula to find scum easily.
It's not that simple.
For example, lynch all lurkers is a common scum strategy, since the best scum can lose is a useless partner. But there is always a number of protown players they can get lynched that way before their partner is touched.

You cannot rely on the strategy by itself.
You must analyze case by case.

Mind to share what are the best games you have read and the players you liked the most?

[Dead Rikimaru]

and before the game is over you will wish me another family disaster.

I'm not sure I understood this, care to explain what did you mean?

[Dead Rikimaru]

I've followed a couple games, and one of the more entertaining players I've seen is ZONEACE, mostly because he's so damn caustic, yet he tends to play well. Also tends to get OMGUSed rather often for his attitude. I'm still following Mafia 70, which has just barely hit deadline Day 1...

Just to finish the talk about old games and get into the game.

I suggest that all new players check some old completed games (running games may take months to finish) to get used to the most common strategies and see how the best players do.

[Dead Rikimaru]

and before the game is over you will wish me another family disaster.

I'm not sure I understood this, care to explain what did you mean?

Still interested in this.

[Dead Rikimaru]

charliestubbs has been prodded.

Did he open the prod?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Now searching for a replacement for charliestubbs.

MOD, can't you just steal a newbie from the first page of the queue?
Also, could you prod, like, everyone?

[Dead Rikimaru]

people seem to be taking sides...

And what is your opinion on the sides, and on the people taking them?

[Dead Rikimaru]

I really, really, really don't like this wagon on Variable.
I've seen scum come up with "lynch all jokers" before. (LML on Himalayan Mafia, for example)

I think that the best way to find scum in this game is by looking at how it started and why people on it jumped in. I'm specially interested in hearing from somestrangeflea.

That said, by now:

unvote

[Dead Rikimaru]

replace! lol

I'd rather wait for him.
A replacement can never be expected to fully explain the ac6ts of its predecessor, so ends up having a pass.

May I suggest that each of us present a list of three prime suspects and the reason for suspicion?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Sorry for taking long to answer. I use the forums mostly at work, and I had a couple of busy days.

Here is my suspect list:

First: somestrangeflea
Tied for second :Xaivius and Silverwalker

I will try my best to present the resoning today, if my time allows. Otherwise it will be done before Monday.

I think it's most important that all players make a top 3 before the day ends. It's no good for town if any player manages to go into night before commiting to an opinion.

MOD: I understand the day is lagging a bit, but due to replacements could we have more time?

[Dead Rikimaru]

F@#$!
I was in the process of making a novel size post but my browser closed and I lost one full hour of my life for nothing.
grrrrrrr
I'll post later when I recover from the anger.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Bah, my suspicion list is almost a week old and too much have happened since.
Instead of writting a book I will give a brief explanation of my thoughts and move on to newer stuff.

Xaivius is part of my list due to his initial lurkerhunt. Lurker hunt is sometimes a scum strategy to show participation while avoiding to analyze whatever is going on.
When I asked about his reading of old games I was trying to find out if he saw it being used by scum this way or not.

Silverwalker is part of my list because I found it strange that Golgi, in his first post did what I understood as a joke about being scum (I asked for clarification, but he disappeared) and said Variable was scummy for doing the same thing.
Golgi disappeared before giving the clarification I asked for, but SW was very fast to jump on the wagon.

somestrangeflea is part of my list not because he agreed to the "jokers are scummy" theory, but how he joined it.
It was Golgi who pointed out that joking was scummy, so every time we think of that wagon we think of Golgi/SW as the starter, but the first person to actually vote was flea.
I think it's possible that flea was an opportunist and took the chance to start a wagon on someone while appearing that the real starter was someone else.
This thought gains strenght when I think that flea actually defended the theory and would not bother to see Variable lynched for that.
Rememebr that even if joking about being scum is considered a scum tell (a rather weak tell) it's not PROOF enough of being scum to justify letting a player be lynched without further reasoning.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I wrote the post above in about four hours (my boss keeps bugging me all the time to do random stuff, sorry)
I will now try to make something out of the last week's events.

MOD: Could we have another votecount, please?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Why would I be on anyone's suspect list when I have only posted twice?

Because of the actions of your predecessor along with your suspicious first vote.
By the way, that's why replacements hurt the game so much and why it was better to wait for flea rather than replace him.
I was very interested in hearing Golgi's answer to my question about his first post, but sadly it's something I can't expect you to answer.

oh good, looks like the game can return to its organic order with no deadline

Is this slow organic enough for you?
Really, I feel people in this game is more interested in surviving than in finding scum.
With the game going slowly the mod will be forced to impose a deadline again, and people will use it as excuse to jump on the first wagon.
If I am one of the top posters in a game there is something wrong. lol

I wrote the post above in about four hours (my boss keeps bugging me all the time to do random stuff, sorry)
I will now try to make something out of the last week's events.

MOD: Could we have another votecount, please?

your dedication to the game to hardcore

Actually not, I have been having little free time recently that I've needed to spend
on the game I'm modding,
seeking replacements
and writting night scenes.
And I'm sorry for that, but since the game is in a slow pace anyway I think I will be able to keep up with it.

The ever controversial joke scum claim. I stand by my argument that it is a scumtell because of Mini 167.

Basic summary:
EmpTyger jokeclaims scum.
EmpTyger gets lynched for claiming scum.
EmpTyger is scum.

A scum tell is a rule of thumb, not absolute truth.
Alone it's not enough to grant a lynch, specially since if we mislynch we go to lynch or lose.
If I were to vote him because in the game you posted the joker was scum, I could as well vote you because I saw LoudMouthLee, as scum, frame Mastermind of Sin using this same reason.
Actually, according to Jeep's list of scumtells, picking tells so easily is indeed a scumtell, since scum have additional knowledge from start and just need an excuse to frame a townie.

---

My next post will discuss suspect lists so far.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Well, we are on lynch or lose.
If a townie vote another townie now speedlynch delivers scum an easy win, so

DO NOT VOTE YET

. Let's talk before deciding where to place our votes.

First of all: Is everyone still around?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Mod, could you please prod the players who have not yet posted on day 2?

[Dead Rikimaru]

bring it! lol

we could either do a role claim or scum lists are always a talking point

what do people think?

A mass claim you mean?
lol, would only help scum to kill a power role on night 2.
We have more or less done scum lists and you seem to be in all of them.

1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)
2. WishyWashy voting (+10)
3. Third person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+15)
4. Fourth person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+10)
5. Admitting someone is a townie without saying "IF" (+10) (mafia knows for sure who isn't mafia)
6. Mafia generally have more information than other players, so whoever picks up on tells/hints easiest is more likely to be mafia (+10%). There are some notable exceptions. Experience and skill should be taken into consideration.

Zombie_Woof is guilty of #4, he may have given that vote expecting some townie in a hurry could follow.

apple is guilty of #2, like pointed out by variable himself, iirc. His vote was not needed to advance the day, since we were still talking. It was slow, but was going on, and was stopped by variable's lynch.

They are my prime suspects at the moment.
Since most of us agree that apple is scum we should as well vote him off to save the game from dying.

If I show up dead in the morning remember to reread everything, and to discuss before voting.

vote: appleof88

[Dead Rikimaru]

The only thing you cannot accuse me is of not trying to bring life to the game. The person who tryed the most , if not the only one who tryed, to make sure every player gave an opinion was me. Process that you stopped the first time you had the chance.
A mass claim will only bring useful information to scum. Scum will want to out the cop or doc, or even make sure they exist. It would provide your partner the info needed for an optimal night kill.
The kind of discussion useful for town is the kind I've been trying to get through the whole game.
Normally I would unvote and wait for the replacement, but your strategies are so scummy, your logic is so bad, you excuses are so lame that I don't really care. The replacement will have enough time to read during Night 2 to catch up. (or maybe he is apple's scumbuddy and scum won' kill next night because the player was not aroun).

confirm vote appleof88

[Dead Rikimaru]

If there is a lesson to be learned from this game, is that townies should not try to survive, they should try to find scum.
Since the first day it was noticeable that townies were expecting someone to do the job for them. They lurked and did not say much.

The same could be said abut my "partners" since neither of them stood the pressure and flaked.
Silverwalker got into the game ready for an easy win, putting Variable at -1. He probably thought I would finish him, but since I declined he probably got bored and by Night 1 he was already absent.

My Day 1 strategy was not agree with Golgi on anything, and try to frame someone on my own. I tryed to frame somestrangeflea, but noone really bought that.
Since Variable was close to be lynched I wanted him to, but didn't want it to be me, so I prolongued the day as much as I could so someone would get bored and finish him to advance the game. Apple did that and ended looking the scummiest for that.

I decided to nightkill somestrangeflea for three reasons:
1- He was also on Variable, so if I wanted to go after apple for killing Variable flea could defend apple.
2- He was a lurking IC, which was good for the mafia, I got afraid that he could get replaced for an active IC.
3- Since he was lurking there was a good chance he was a power role.

My Day 2 strategy was to go after apple, and everyone else seemed to agree that his last vote was scummy, even before I mentioned. He also did me a big favor OMGsing me that way, which sounded very scummy.

My advice to the newbies for your next games:
- Do not expect people to do the job for you, even if you are a vanilla townie, try your best to find scum.
- Do not let the game die without discussion, lack of discussion favors scum..