Newbie #492 - GAME OVER

[Dead Rikimaru]

F@#$!
I was in the process of making a novel size post but my browser closed and I lost one full hour of my life for nothing.
grrrrrrr
I'll post later when I recover from the anger.

[Silverwalker]

I'm getting really tired of explaining myself over and over again.

Hey, you

did

ask me to explain my reasoning, so I did.

[appleof72]

Variable, you just came off my scum list. you called out a guy and so far, he hasn't come back at you

Go back and check. (I'll wait.)

vote Silverwalker

for being a playing the newb card and for attacking what think are good points from V

[Silverwalker]

Okay apple, that was actually pretty bad. I "haven't come back" for not replying to Variable's sarcastic "I'll wait." - as if he would be waiting in real-time, how silly. What should I go back and check? He admits that what I said in my point 4 is true, that he did make such threats to those who had voted for him. I don't need to prove something that he admits.

[appleof72]

he asked you to prove your other points
that you haven't. he doesn't. i want you to

[Dead Rikimaru]

Bah, my suspicion list is almost a week old and too much have happened since.
Instead of writting a book I will give a brief explanation of my thoughts and move on to newer stuff.

Xaivius is part of my list due to his initial lurkerhunt. Lurker hunt is sometimes a scum strategy to show participation while avoiding to analyze whatever is going on.
When I asked about his reading of old games I was trying to find out if he saw it being used by scum this way or not.

Silverwalker is part of my list because I found it strange that Golgi, in his first post did what I understood as a joke about being scum (I asked for clarification, but he disappeared) and said Variable was scummy for doing the same thing.
Golgi disappeared before giving the clarification I asked for, but SW was very fast to jump on the wagon.

somestrangeflea is part of my list not because he agreed to the "jokers are scummy" theory, but how he joined it.
It was Golgi who pointed out that joking was scummy, so every time we think of that wagon we think of Golgi/SW as the starter, but the first person to actually vote was flea.
I think it's possible that flea was an opportunist and took the chance to start a wagon on someone while appearing that the real starter was someone else.
This thought gains strenght when I think that flea actually defended the theory and would not bother to see Variable lynched for that.
Rememebr that even if joking about being scum is considered a scum tell (a rather weak tell) it's not PROOF enough of being scum to justify letting a player be lynched without further reasoning.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I wrote the post above in about four hours (my boss keeps bugging me all the time to do random stuff, sorry)
I will now try to make something out of the last week's events.

MOD: Could we have another votecount, please?

[appleof72]

I wrote the post above in about four hours (my boss keeps bugging me all the time to do random stuff, sorry)
I will now try to make something out of the last week's events.

MOD: Could we have another votecount, please?

your dedication to the game to hardcore

[Variable]

I wrote the post above in about four hours (my boss keeps bugging me all the time to do random stuff, sorry)
I will now try to make something out of the last week's events.

MOD: Could we have another votecount, please?

your dedication to the game to hardcore

I wish everyone's was such.

Xaivius, where'd you go?

[appleof72]

indeed
shall we jut vote out people who don't turn up? lol

[Xaivius]

I'm waiting for an opportunity to say something that ISN'T an idiotic "me too!"

X

[Silverwalker]

he asked you to prove your other points
that you haven't. he doesn't. i want you to

I see I will have to actually quote this:

4. Go back and check. (I'll wait.) I only said things along those lines because

He wrote "Go back and check" to a specific point I made, number 4. The rest of what he wrote was as defense against my suspicions, so he wasn't "calling me out," but rather, I was calling him out.

He did say it was annoying to have to explain himself again, though. This, even though he had specifically asked me to state my suspicions. In short:

-He specifically asks what my suspicions are
-I state them
-He replies, and says it is annoying to have to reply again, even though he had asked for this
-You, apple, say he "called me out" by replying to my suspicions? Or was it by saying "Go back and check (I'll wait)" which I interpret not as an actual request from him but as sarcasm?

[Shanba]

I guess Aimee isn't back yet, so I'll get another vote count up.

[Shanba]

Vote Count:

Variable (2) -- somestrangeflea, SilverWalker
Silverwalker (1) -- appleof88

Not Voting (2) -- Xaivius, Dead Rikimaru, Zombie_Woof, Variable

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Uh, I was going to edit it in, but I apparently don't have mod powers, so we'll just have to live with two posts. Going to do a quick activity check and maybe get some prods out.

[Aimee]

I'm back, yay!

I'm sending prods to somestrangeflea and Zombie_Woof.

I'd like activity to pick up a bit, please. Otherwise, there will be a deadline.

[appleof72]

he asked you to prove your other points
that you haven't. he doesn't. i want you to

I see I will have to actually quote this:

4. Go back and check. (I'll wait.) I only said things along those lines because

He wrote "Go back and check" to a specific point I made, number 4. The rest of what he wrote was as defense against my suspicions, so he wasn't "calling me out," but rather, I was calling him out.

He did say it was annoying to have to explain himself again, though. This, even though he had specifically asked me to state my suspicions. In short:

-He specifically asks what my suspicions are
-I state them
-He replies, and says it is annoying to have to reply again, even though he had asked for this
-You, apple, say he "called me out" by replying to my suspicions? Or was it by saying "Go back and check (I'll wait)" which I interpret not as an actual request from him but as sarcasm?

i was rather impressed with the go back and check comment
to your credit, you did your home work and turned it around

unvote

[somestrangeflea]

I'm bored, so I'll analyse Variable's posts. Eventually, I'll analyse everyone's, but I'm busy with life, so I'll make a start here...

Variable's Post of Suspicion!

What a coincidence, this is my second game too.

You got us, man, we're both scum. We actually planned those two comments before the game started. (We were supposed to do them exactly two hours apart, but I messed up and did mine two minutes too early. Sorry, scumbuddy.)



Seriously, though, please point me to this list of scum tells. It'd be handy knowing what things not to do whenever I actually get a role in a game that is scum.

And the problem with "talking because the silence makes you nervous" is that it's just easier to not post anything, rather than come up with something innocent-sounding.

The ever controversial joke scum claim. I stand by my argument that it is a scumtell because of Mini 167.

Basic summary:
EmpTyger jokeclaims scum.
EmpTyger gets lynched for claiming scum.
EmpTyger is scum.

From the looks of the second part of the post, it looks as though V's trying to discredit anyone who attempts to use anything which is recognised as a "Common Scumtell".

You know, I thought about that while I was typing, that someone would interpret that as me claiming scum.

FoS: somestrangeflea

.

Zombie's new. What's your excuse?

Doesn't actually defend against the point that jokeclaiming scum is a tell, just dismisses it as wrong.

OK, now

I'll

make one up.

Quoting oneself is a scumtell.

Make up scumtells if you want, but if you can't back them up with actual reasoning and logic, don't expect anyone to believe you...

Making up scumtells, with or without reasoning behind them, is actually a good way to get the game lost for the town, as it gives players an excuse to vote for someone they want to be scum. Everybody does something in a game that some mafia in some game has done at one point or another.

Yeah. Scumtells are things which scum more

commonly

do. You can cite a scum doing any action as a scumtell, provided you can't find Town doing it more often. I've stated my case and my evidence. If you can find an example of a

Townie

jokeclaiming scum, then feel free to show it. I'll retract my scumtell if you do...

Bad advice, flea. I especially find your backpedaling on this annoying. (Going from agreeing with Golgi by voting for me, then attempting to turn it into a lesson on tells? What?)

And that is backpedalling, how?

Heaven forbid we have fun while playing a game.



Three boys get arrested at the local zoo for causing a disturbance. One by one, the boys are brought in front of the judge for questioning.

The first boy says, "my name's Tommy, and I was just trying to feed peanuts to the lions."

The second boy says, "my name's Billy, and I was just trying to feed peanuts to the lions."

The third boy says, "my name's Peanuts."

FoS: appleof88

Hey, any chance you could, you know,

not

immediately dismiss people thoughts as BS, and actually

show

why people are wrong..?

The only people to EVER make up scumtells are scum trying to get a townie lynched, and townies that subconsciously want a certain person hung, simply to prove themselves right.

Why? Because you say so?

As soon as something becomes widely accepted as a scumtell, scum stop doing it.

Scum still have more reason to do it than town would though, so it's still a scumtell.

To that end, I have no problem being hung as a townie if the rest of the town can accurately determine, based on voting patterns and posts, who the scum are.

The Town lynching you as a Townie,

and

the Town knowing who all the scum are, at the same time, is impossible. Why would we lynch a Townie if we knew who the scum were?

Which leads me very nicely on to...

Let me know when you find something provably untrue or contradictory.

DONE!

Therefore, as long as people keep finding "scumtells" in my posts, I'm still going to keep doing them as I feel like.

OHAI GAIZ SCUMTELLS DON'T APPLY TO VARIABLE BECAUSE HE SAY SO.

There is no basis in any of them, as I'm not scum.

OHAI GAIZ VARIABLE DOESN'T HAVE TO DEFEND HIMSELF BECAUSE HE SAY HE'S TOWN

I have a list of suspects, but I'm not going to present them just yet.

Could be scum waiting to see which opinions are "safer" to have. Not really seeing any good reasons

not

to tell us his suspects. That being said...

It was your idea to present a list of suspects; why didn't you start us off? Instead, it almost sounds like you're asking for us to list bandwagons we may be partial to.

/agree. You get some points for that...

Tied for first: appleof88 and Silverwalker
Tied for third: Xaivius and Dead Rikimaru
Tied for fifth: Zombie_woof and somestrangeflea

$10 says that this changes dramatically after I press "Submit".

He didn't vote for you.

Vote: appleof88.

You also get some points for that.

OMGUS only counts when you get voted on.

X

Just because someone doesn't follow up their suspicions with a vote, doesn't make attacking them for suspecting you any better.

By the way, I hope you realize how it will look if I get lynched based on posts like these -- especially after I turn up town.

Uhm, I think this is the 3rd or 4th time you've used "You'll look suspicious if you lynch me" as a threat, and I think that using it is a good scum tactic for driving away the more shy players... Silver picked you up on this as well, and I agree.

somestrangeflea: making up scum tells, then major backpedaling when I call him on it.

1 is not scummy, and 2 does not exist.

Fine, I understand, not everyone was graced with a sense of humor.

Personal attacks on players = FAIL

By the way, "thou doth protest too much" is the same principle as "too townie." Look it up.

X

"Thou doth protest too much" = Player is too whiny and complains a lot. Valid reasoning, IMO.
"Too Townie" = Player is acting in a Pro-town fashion, and therefore must be scum. BS reasoning, always.

Acting in a pro-town fashion =/= whiny and complaining.

No comments/posts since the 25th, but then an array of FoSes?

Okay.

I do appreciate the unvote, though.

So, a player is lurking like crazy, then indicates suspicion of 3 people, providing no reasoning, but you don't actually suspect them.

Methinks someone was just a little too relieved by the unvote...

So, uhm, yeah.

Zombie's turn next time!

[Variable]

blah blah blah

No fancy editing here. I'm really getting tired of this game, and am on the verge of just voting for myself to get out of it. That's a pretty bad attitude to have, I'll admit, but this one game just isn't fun anymore. If the other members of the town want to lynch me because they're so convinced I'm scum, just get it over with. But after this post, I'm not going to explain anything that I've already explained multiple times before.

What is this, you're going to go through everybody's posts one by one and explain why they're scum?

If you're town, you're giving the scum potential targets. If you're scum, then you're feeling out how the town will respond to potential bandwagons.


I can't prove I'm town, any more than you can. I find it amazing that you're basing your theory of me being scum on

one

game.

You didn't back up any of

your

scumtells with actual reasoning and logic.

If the best you can do on finding me scummy is something that

one

player has done in the past...
I'm certainly not going to go through the entire archives to disprove

your

ridiculous point.

I'll say it again: you're finding me scummy for making a joke. I can't argue against that, as it's the most unbelievable stance I've ever seen in my admittedly short mafia career.

Regarding scumtells, why would scum ever have a reason to joke about being scum?

Regarding me being lynched, way to not get the point of my post. If I get hung as a townie, then afterwards hopefully the rest of the town can possibly determine who the scum were, based on voting patterns and posts. I don't see how that can be made any clearer.

You still haven't found anything provably untrue or contradictory. (Just because you say otherwise doesn't mean so.)

OHAI GAIZ YOU FIND SCUMTELLS IN MAI POSTS BUT IM NOT SCUM, GUESS I BETTER STOP DOING THEM EVEN THO ULL FIND THAT SUSPISCIOS AS WELL

OHAI GAIZ IM SCUM BECUZ I MADE A JOKE HOW THE HELL DO I DEFEND AGAINST THAT

List of suspects point is blown away by the fact that I posted a list 7 posts later.

You stay where you are on the list for now; I think you're a severely misguided townie still.

Silver will be proven wrong on this if I'm lynched.

1: You did make up a scumtell, based off

your

experience in [/i]one game[/i]. You did backpedal, by telling me two different things in #41 and #45.

Regarding personal attacks: I'M BEING FOUND SCUMMY PRECISELY BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE PLAYING THIS GAME DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR.

Thou doth etc.: Yeah, you're wrong, but whatever. I'm protesting you finding me scum too much does equal too townie. Or is there just a right amount of protesting I should be doing?

Regarding Zombie_woof's unvote: What the hell do you want me to do? You just got done finding me suspicious for finding others suspicious, now you find it suspicious that I don't find him too suspicious. I find that suspicious.

0/10.

Vote: Silverwalker

. He's still at the top of my suspect list. Be sure to FoS me for acting on this as well.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Why would I be on anyone's suspect list when I have only posted twice?

Because of the actions of your predecessor along with your suspicious first vote.
By the way, that's why replacements hurt the game so much and why it was better to wait for flea rather than replace him.
I was very interested in hearing Golgi's answer to my question about his first post, but sadly it's something I can't expect you to answer.

oh good, looks like the game can return to its organic order with no deadline

Is this slow organic enough for you?
Really, I feel people in this game is more interested in surviving than in finding scum.
With the game going slowly the mod will be forced to impose a deadline again, and people will use it as excuse to jump on the first wagon.
If I am one of the top posters in a game there is something wrong. lol

I wrote the post above in about four hours (my boss keeps bugging me all the time to do random stuff, sorry)
I will now try to make something out of the last week's events.

MOD: Could we have another votecount, please?

your dedication to the game to hardcore

Actually not, I have been having little free time recently that I've needed to spend
on the game I'm modding,
seeking replacements
and writting night scenes.
And I'm sorry for that, but since the game is in a slow pace anyway I think I will be able to keep up with it.

The ever controversial joke scum claim. I stand by my argument that it is a scumtell because of Mini 167.

Basic summary:
EmpTyger jokeclaims scum.
EmpTyger gets lynched for claiming scum.
EmpTyger is scum.

A scum tell is a rule of thumb, not absolute truth.
Alone it's not enough to grant a lynch, specially since if we mislynch we go to lynch or lose.
If I were to vote him because in the game you posted the joker was scum, I could as well vote you because I saw LoudMouthLee, as scum, frame Mastermind of Sin using this same reason.
Actually, according to Jeep's list of scumtells, picking tells so easily is indeed a scumtell, since scum have additional knowledge from start and just need an excuse to frame a townie.

---

My next post will discuss suspect lists so far.

[Variable]

Actually, according to Jeep's list of scumtells, picking tells so easily is indeed a scumtell, since scum have additional knowledge from start and just need an excuse to frame a townie.

Hey, it's that list of scumtells I was asking for, and this one actually makes sense. You know, it

explains

what's going on with the tells.




^{Don't see anything about making jokes on there, though...}

[Zombie_Woof]

Okay, I'm ready to upgrade my FoS of Variable to a vote again. I don't have a word by word analysis, just going on feeling more than anything.

Vote: Variable

[appleof72]

fudge it

vote variable

i.e moaning

[Variable]

That's lynch, amirite?





Bah. Go town.

[Variable]

ZZZzzz...

[Aimee]

Final Votecount!

Variable (4) -- somestrangeflea, SilverWalker, Zombie_Woof, appleof88
SilverWalker (1) -- Variable

Not Voting (2) -- Xaivius, Dead Rikimaru

---

You decide to string up Variable, hoping that he was a scummy scum.

Oopsie. You were wrong.

Variable (Townie) - Lynched Day 1

It is now

Night 1

. 72 hours for any night choices, so deadline is Sunday 18th November.