Micro 545 | Slavic Music Mafia | Endgame

[notscience]

VOTE: bins

I am a daycop, please follow me.

notsci and bins get a room

that is all

[notscience]

It's nice to want things, I called it first.

And do you actually anticipate trying to break the game is going to net town anything?

[notscience]

If you want multiple rooms at a time you should therefore have no issue voting to give me and the loser a room?

I want to sort her out early as possible.

[notscience]

I can dig it.

pedit-

Idk if we can vote multiple at once

[notscience]

So uh, I guess after someone hammers all of them all I'll just vote whoever I find the scummiest after chatting with everyone

[notscience]

Because harem?

[notscience]

espe if we get 3 people here we can just rapidfire hammer them

[notscience]

notsci and espe get a room

[notscience]

ns/wgeurts room

[notscience]

We need to stack my hoods first.

ns/postie room

[notscience]

i am going to bed.

i expect to not be able to post when i awake.

[notscience]

espe/postie room

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

espe and Postie

(R-0): Espeonage, Postie, notscience

<— ROOM

notscience and The_Jester

(R-2): The_Jester,

Postie

Not Voting

(5): Apricity, Bins, herrcombs, Postie, Tere, wgeurts

[notscience]

VOTE: espe

[notscience]

plot I had a roomvote on the last page

I can't find it? Jester and Postie were voted for you/jester to have a room and then espy, postie, and you voted for espe/postie so they got a room, and then espy voted for you/jester again so you're back up to 2 people voting for you? If I've missed something, help. --P

[notscience]

IM FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[notscience]

town-
Postie
Bins
Jester

who are these people
everyone else

Scummy-
Espe

[notscience]

WAGON HO

[notscience]

All of these vanity wagons should stop being vain and form central wagons.

[notscience]

Sure.

Postie is town based off of some of the ways she interacted with me in the PT, namely based off of a slipup I made (I had talked to jester pregame and I had brought up something we had talked about in that pt without mentioning that I had talked to him pregame) and that paranoia and keying inon that shows the deeper level of thinking indictive of town.

Jester I get awkward newbtown vibes from.

And the loser is town, her interactions with me in the PT seemed genuine especially her response to why she was being serious regarding the mechanics.

And Espe originally started as a misunderstanding where I thought I posted something and then didn't but overall he's the person who's actually been talking to me a fair amount that I'm not getting townvibes off of? Someone mentioned that centering the game around the rooms could be a way to try and starve the game of information but his excuse is that it makes it easier on emotional readers and I didn't think to ask but then my big question is who in this game would that even apply to?

Overall it's not a take to the bank scumread but it's the best I hve atm

[notscience]

I guess.

I'm approaching it with gamblers fallacy I guess, of the people I have a read on they make up half the playerlist so one must be scum?

[notscience]

I formally acknowledge there is a large post I have to respond to but cba atm.

[notscience]

I lied I'll reply after I put pizza in the oven.

[notscience]

plot postie also decided to vote for a mislynch btw

Fixed, thanks! --P

[notscience]

The vote on me is really not appreciated.

[notscience]

I lied, I will be back later when I can post without being overly hostile.

[notscience]

I'm going to chitchat with bins some more until my head clears up.

[notscience]

Hood posts should count >_>

[notscience]

I am here now nad doing things because I've been told to.

[notscience]

If you are town and heading for a lynch because you don't feel like playing and are sulking, shame on you, Notty.

Let's start with some reads.

I've been stuck at home in bed for over a week with migaines that don't allow me to have deep thinking and today is the first day in that time where I am 100% lucid and able to put coherent thoughts down.

[notscience]

There's some stuff I can't go into yet, but it felt like ns was misrepping Espe pretty hard in our PT and I think I was lied to at one point as well. I would be up for a notscience lynch today.

VOTE: notscience

Since the post restriction between ns and Jester has expired, I can at least go into some stuff on that now (didn't want notscience to be able to take his time with responding).

Nottie's reasons for townreading the Jester look really contrived to me. In our PT, ns defended the Jester pretty hard, but the only reason he could give for his read was that he didn't think Jester would be so uncooperative towards me if he was scum. That's not something I think is necessarily alignment indicative, but even it was, I told ns that Jester's meta shows him to be a lot more open and forthcoming with his thoughts (see Newbie 1623), which means there are definitely some problems with that point.
And yet notscience still adamantly townreads The_Jester. I would really expect a null read at best.

The whole thing feels a lot like white-knighting to me, especially with how, according to notscience, The_Jester is easy to mislynch.

Okay, let's break this down.

First and foremost, I had a soft spot for people when I can identify with them. So, things you found as awkward I wasn't bothered by.

Second, I don't really care if it's contrived. I think he's town.

Third, I don't even know what his mislynchability has to do with anything. It looks like you're trying to come up with reasons that fit this ideal.

Ok so first thing that needs to get mentioned is that I asked NS about if he had been paired with everyone yet, and he goes no, then proceeds to list all of the rooms he has and completely misses his room with herr. Now look, it's incredibly weak, herr had made one post and hadn't been active in thread since so it's not unusual for it to not be in his mind if he's doing it from memory. However it is something to keep in mind for later. If one of them flips scum somewhere down the track.

So I point it out, he admits it's suss. It's a fair exchange.

Now what happens after is what I want to focus on. I tell him that I will be telling the thread about it when we can talk about each other again. He immediately agrees that this is what he'd do too and that it would be remiss to not do so. Then out of nowhere he 180s on me and takes an aggressive stance on me. I say, quite clearly, it's not something I would push on him for without things to support it. He becomes snappy, tells me that he rarely gets lynched and for me to try my best at lynching him. He had zero reason to take this stance, and this is the same time he votes me in thread.

I try to work out wtf is going on.

Then we have the issue that he then apparently misreps the entire exchange while talking to postie, who I was quite vocal to him that they was a very strong town read for me and even admitted to him that the reason I wanted a room with them is because it had potential to transform into a pseudo masons room.

The reason I view this as important is that he evidently has reason to want to wedge us as we are townreading each other. I do not see a pro-town reason to do this, however I very much see a pro scum reason to do this.

Now it should also be noted, and we did cover this, that NS said the same to me about Jester, before he said it to Postie. So I think the word slip is legit. There is still potential value in pressure on Jester, but with the current state of my NS read there is no reason to do that right now.

Unvote, VoteL NS

First off, I immediately brought it to the attention of bins/postie when it happened. Unless you want to try and spin a tale on why scum-ns admits to doing it rather than 1v1ing you...

Second off, you've blatantly misrepped the interaction. First and foremost, you did ask. I forgot herr. You called me out on it, I acknowledged it looked sketchy, you said you'd bring it up(Okay, I see now where you did say that you wouldn't use it to push me) and I said I wouldn't be able to defend myself against it for obvious reasons, then he said that a flip from either of us as scum is going to incriminate the hell out of the other, to which I then replied that I'm near impossible to mislynch and I get really snappy about that because I /really/ don't like being mislynched (and guess who you can ask about that!)as well as had the potential thought of an espe/herr team where espe powerbusses than uses that to quicklynch me or he pushes a lynch on me and uses that to clear herr. Then, you say that my lynch would mostly come as a direct result of using it, which seems like a raelly strange position to almost threaten despite your supposed not using it to push me.

Third off, and I'm almost positive I brought it up and I'll check this after I talk but I was worried I let confirmation bias into what I told her.

Fourth off, why the fuck does scum-ns stick his neck out to split up you and postie?

Fifth off, I made it clear that of the people I had somewhat of a read on, you were the only one I wasn't strongly townreading and seeing postie with a strong townread on someone I'm not strongly townreading was bothering me so I don't see why TOWN wouldn't be worried about scum who, based solely off of what you have posted IN THIS QUOTE, wanted to create a "masonry" with another player. Why the fuck would I want a townread to be in a "masonry" with someone i'm not strongly townreading?

So no. You've been buddying postie, and you're drastically playing the "why me" card here- When I mentioned you were my scumread at the time you asked why is me and prodded me some and I realized the initial reason was a misunderstanding that I rescinded. You didn't prod me much more than that and there was literally nothing going on in the term of trying to figure out what was going on in that PT, so cut the bullshit.

tldr- Originally scumread espe from misunderstanding and misread some of his posts then reported it to postie and then rescinded the original read and mentioned it felt like he was trying to rattle me which I don't even understand how that could be misrepped because thats subjective so uh? and Espe has been buddying postie but apparently thinks I'm scum because I'm worried about someone I'm not townreading trying to get a "masonry" with someone I am townreading who is townreading them and worrying he is going to use a lynch on me to clear his buddy herr or lynch herr then powerlynch me and coast off bus towncred, doesn't really explain why this is scum-ns's game or what scum-ns even focuses on doing.

Alright, so, since the herrcomb thing has been brought up, I'll go into that now. This is where my main reasons for being really suspicious of notscience are.

So, ns comes out and says that he messed up and listed someone he already had a PT with when listing some people he still needed a PT with to Espe, and that Espe said he was going to bring it up. The way ns explained it felt tinged with AtE so I decided to start asking Espe about what happened in case ns was misrepping anything. There were some major differences between how both of them talked about the situation - in ns's version, ns seemed convinced Espe was out to get him with this, and in Espe's version, ns was okay with the whole thing and didn't seem to let it bother him much at first.
Now here's where things get even curiouser: Espe has told me that ns agreed that Espe should talk about it, so I ask ns if he would rather Espe

didn't

talk about it. ns says nope, he would prefer if Espe didn't mention it. Interesting.

Then ns tells me Espe told him he was considering using the herrcomb "slip" to get ns lynched to check if it was a real slip. I ask Espe if that's true and Espe tells me that never happened.

Basically, one of them is lying, and it's probably notscience.

Espeonage, notscience - obviously, I don't have access to your PT, so, do you have anything to say about this?

AtE- a) isn't a scumtell, b) is something I just do as being who I am, I'm an emotional player.

Second- You asked if I would rather he didn't, and I said "not really." How is that a "nope" in any sense of the word? I'm trying to think through english but I'm almost positive that's not a no in the slightest.

And bullshit, he definitely without a doubt said he could push my lynch with that slip. I did miss where he said he wouldn't push it without further reads before, but he DID say that he would push my lynch with it so, no.

@ ns: Why did you vote Espe in 79?

Iirc that was when I thought the thing where he readflipped on bins was a thing and we got into this stupid semantic argument in the pt over it and it was basically "I told him a townread on bins was premature" and I didn't actually post that and I was POSITIVE I had but he went back and was like "no that wasn't a townread that was a nullscum read" and it was worded ambiguously that it looked like a townread to me but basically the thought process was "I think he readflipped on bins because I called him out on a bad early townread of her"

And after that I've stuck to it both from being a nonentity and because I did legitimately feel rattled in the PT and especially now there seems to be some bullshit going on.

Notty, what, if anything has Herrcombs posted in your hood?

Same to Apricity?

I skimmed but I'm pretty sure the way he described it was basically all there was.

Overall my PT activity skyrockets based on my comfort level with someone so over the past few days literally the only place I've even said things is the PT w/ bins. So, before you ask about others, most of them ahve slim to none that haven't already been broguht forth

Then ns tells me Espe told him he was considering using the herrcomb "slip" to get ns lynched to check if it was a real slip. I ask Espe if that's true and Espe tells me that never happened.

If ns can't find a way to explain away this point, then shouldn't this be reason enough to be voting solely between Espe and ns today?

Unless you think there's a way lying in this situation would be town-motivated, Tere.

In response to the slip discussion, it pretty much ends with him saying that my lynch was going to come as a likely cause of it and proving it was a slip, then he /did/ say that it wasn't a threat but tbh I didn't believe it so I guess I did lie LYNCH ME WITH FIRE FOR OMITTING THAT but it's like "Hey I have this really damning piece of evidence against you that will make you die, but dw man" and I'm like uhhhh? So fuck no that's bullshit.

So what's going on, notscience? Am I no longer a townread?

I was frustrated with you and everything I tried to type out sounded jaded because all of a sudden I have these huge gigantic walls to parse about me being scum or lying and was overwhelmed, so I sought the PT I felt the most comfort in. It's cliquey, it's whatever you want to call it but it's just a matter of who I felt fine spazzing out in a PT at.

Basically, there's been a fuckton of misunderstandings and I admit I had a part in most but I think there's a big issue with people saying things in ways that are confusing other people.

tldr- backpedalling bcoz im sooooooooooooo scaaaaaaaaaaared

[notscience]

Also I mentioned this to bins but I think espe was talking about heresay and using it to "gain reads" for emotional players which is really weird and I honestly don't have enough of an understanding of his scumgame but I was like

"huh, I wonder if scum-espe can fake his emotions and try to use that to get people lynched" based off of that discussion

[notscience]

And I would have replied sooner but trying to parse all the accusations and figure out what's going on was near impossible the past week or so.

[notscience]

VOTE: Herr

[notscience]

I think ti would be pretty funn if the two in a pseudo 1v1 lost their votes

it would make me chuckle

[notscience]

That herr told me something he had also told postie despite scumreading me in case he is wrong about postie and she's scum so she can't misrep it later.

[notscience]

That avatar is so sassy.

[notscience]

@Postie, when did you read on Espe change? Can you walk me through that? Why are you okay with lynching him now?

My read on Espe changed when I read ns' catch-up wall and realised I was getting tunnely and started doubting everything. There were some things I then started seeing wrong with Espe's posts, which are outlined in post 380.

I went into more detail on some of it with RC in our PT, so I'll post about that now here too: take a look at the conversation I had with Espe that I posted in post 407.
What bugs me is that I feel there's a really unnatural emphasis on exactly what Espe

didn't

say, as opposed to giving full details of what actually happened; look at where I ask him if one of him or notscience is lying to me as well - he completely dodges the question. It feels like he was content for me to just carry on believing ns was lying to me without confirming or denying anything so he couldn't be caught out, and the fact he never addressed the issue of ns apparently lying makes me more inclined to believe that too.
Saying in his recent posts that ns' catch-up makes sense with what he remembers also fits with scum trying to make the whole thing look like a big misunderstanding to get out of being lynched for potentially lying or at least strongly misrepping if ns flips town (if it really was just a misunderstanding, there's no freaking way he would have handled it the way he did rather than explaining the situation to me properly).

I know we're close to deadline but I'd like to see an Espe wagon and lynch if possible please. I'll be on later as well though so I'm willing to change my vote to Apricity if this doesn't take off.

VOTE: Espeonage

I was literally just asking RC how he felt about that post. I could definitely see myself voting espe.

[notscience]

VOTE: espe

[notscience]

That's nice.

We have less than 12 hours.

[notscience]

I like the wagon on Espe more.

[notscience]

Oh yes, clearly.

[notscience]

Huh.

[notscience]

I told bins to tell RC I was "protecting" him without the quotations because if anyone in this plyerlist would shoot themselves to kill the bg and confirm themselves I would expect it to be him.

I had told her earlier in the game I wanted to make scum shoot themselves however a certain gigantic clusterfuck made me not a viable nightkill so. BUT I STILL HAD TO TRY

[notscience]

Except that's very clearly bullshit

Unless you think I was faking being stuck in bed for 8 fucking days without the deep thinking processes to parse what was going on when I was accused of lying

Then sure

[notscience]

Man, this is kind of funny thinking maybe NS slipped to Postie when he was saying "I was talking to Jester pregame." now.

shaddap you

[notscience]

I'm so salty my assured mislynch died.

[notscience]

Scum's too weak in the setup. They need a bit more power.

[notscience]

That's true, but then it easily becomes stifling if you aren't.

It's way more snowbally against scum than against town.

[notscience]

From the dead thread:

If anything, postie caught my scumslip in the PT that I had to cover like hell.

The "I was talking to Jester" thing was an actual slip!? I thought that was really unlikely because Espe said in our PT that you used the word "pregame" with him before you'd talked about Jester with me and... gah! Maybe I should have been more suspicious that he was the only one you said you "screened" via PM. >_<

I actually do screen.

I just don't really PM people idk.

[notscience]

I do!

[notscience]

Boo.

[notscience]

Also, the issue comparing this setup to mountainous is that mountainous doesn't force scum to make suboptimal kills.

That's the ONE big part of being the informed minority, you can remove vocal players. In this setup, we were forced to kill two very mislynchable players. I mean, you can fault scum and say it's their fault for not being top-tier town all you want, but if scum attempting to kill top-tier town are instead forced to kill low-tier town, it's hard for them to win.

Maybe give scum a roleblock or something, but there needs to be someway for scum to take out problem targets.

[notscience]

Not when the suboptimal kills just ends up with "kill literally every viable mislynch"

[notscience]

Instead of bodyguards there should be polarity shifts

Ie

You target a b dies

B a dies

Multiple actions makes them fail

That gives town the same basic element and some wifom but doesn't erase counterplay

[notscience]

Making it compulsive would work too.

Compulsive+scum can pick who dies if multiple target the same person is even better.

[notscience]

Yeah, getting mislynched sucks.