Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Keyser Söze]

'Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun!' by A Simple Plan.

Day One.

I draw upon the words of Rocky Balboa for inspiration: "Mafiascum ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as a defeat. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!".

BlueBloodedToffee, we meet again... again.
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Keyser Söze]

mykonian's posts look like they're trying to provoke players (I do not see the town-motivation?):

ooooh someone is lying here. Fun!

Lynch all Liar's

I also wanted to flag Hieirama's reaction. I feel like implosion was joking about a 'Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam' - but Hieirama's jumps in acting very serious/defensive:

Looks like a Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam. Now if only we can figure out the third...

You can build a scumread based on one post?

Dwlee99 gives out two (serious?) easy/early town-reads (I do not like people giving out easy/early town/scum reads):

You asked about my town read on you and implosion

. The first part was more about implosion and the second part is about you. Even though it was "Kind of a joke" I'm still town reading you. (especially for your last few posts)

UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
VOTE: Dwlee99

[Keyser Söze]

I do not understand this question :

what were you trying to do there, soze?

[Keyser Söze]

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town

. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's

stepping in to protect someone from an accusation

and that little sentence becomes quite damning.

Buddying and at the same time

showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs?

Gamr didn't call anyone/someone town though:

Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

We were in RVS:

who is the "someone" you think he called town/was trying to buddy up with/stepping in to protect?

[Keyser Söze]

Now now, you shouldn't make "easy random town/scum reads".

My

seperate

points were:
- I thought implosion's comment about a "Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam" was not serious.
- I thought your 'easy' town reads of BlueBloodedToffee and implosion were serious.

I did not ignore implosion's post.

[Keyser Söze]

mykonian, did you answer my question (I did not understand the Garmr-"scumtell" observation"):

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town

. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's

stepping in to protect someone from an accusation

and that little sentence becomes quite damning.

Buddying and at the same time

showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs?

Gamr didn't call anyone/someone town though:

Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

We were in RVS:

who is the "someone" you think he called town/was trying to buddy up with/stepping in to protect?

[Keyser Söze]

DWL is Town and easy to lynch. Players voting DWL are therefore more likely to be Mafia.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Keyser

Why are you speaking in absolutes?

"DWL is Town"
DWL is "easy to lynch"
"Players voting DWL are therefore more likely to be Mafia"

I don't like this logic at all - it feels unnatural.

[Keyser Söze]

Vote: herrcombs

.

He knows why.

Explain to me the motivation in posting this?

[Keyser Söze]

oi soze. Time to have some results, buddy. Some questions there are only there to have questions.

I would like answers to my questions.

[Keyser Söze]

"so he was in effect defending me."

"trying to call someone town"

I did that from memory, didn't use exact quotes. Effect is the same, conclusions as well.

You are just repeating yourself. Who is the "me", who is the "someone"...

.

My original question:
"We were in RVS: who is the "someone" you think he called town/was trying to buddy up with/stepping in to protect?"

Result: Your original accusation sounded forced with no evidence to back it up.

[Keyser Söze]

lolwut

I was just joking

but now that scumslip. This is actually interesting.

I'm clearly missing something. How is that a scum slip?

Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

Think he skipped implosions post.

I understood

"Honestly don't see anything scummy so far"

as 'nothing on

this page

is out-right scummy so far', not 'that was not a scum-slip by herrcombs'.

If it was a geniune scum-slip by herrcombs (I am still uncomfortable with that exchange between Haschel Cedricson-herrcombs) do you think his scum-partner (Gamr) would jump in to defend herrcombs straight away?

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, the accusation wasn't forced at all.

I think mykonian can defend himself...

[Keyser Söze]

It would never work if herr's scum (since he'd be lying). They can't be buddies if the argument holds.

Ok - this changes my perspective on your earlier comment. I thought you scum-read herrcombs through your reachy-comment: "now that scumslip. This is actually interesting."

Unsure if the use of "honestly" is scum-indicative.

Looking at Garmr's ISO, I wanted to flag one post he made:

Also you should quit before you burn youself

if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

Unsure if this scum-in-a-corner, or town - but it is both very defensive and a threat.

[Keyser Söze]

so soze. You are still sitting on a dwlee vote. This seems outdated. Not saying you should vote garmr.

But at least vote hier then who more or less claimed scum with her reply.

Scum-lean read on Hieirama.

By post 76, Hieirama posted an extensive positive/null/negative "vibes" list based on everyone's posts (reads based on posts <#67).

Why positive/negative "vibes" and a

running narrative

on events, why not call them town/scum reads? He only committed giving a "Slight Town-Lean" to herrcombs. Noted.

I'm still trying to comprehend what's going on… These quick reads and half-joking remarks are throwing me off.

I'll try anyway. No use for me if I just sit to the side.

"I'll try anyway. No use for me if I just sit to the side."

- I am uncomfortable with this soliloquy, feels like this reads/vibes list has been tough work for Hieirama to express (and has maybe been posted a little too early).

VOTE: Hieirama

[Keyser Söze]

Oooo, Keyser's voting early.

I wonder what that means.

From our last game together, I've learn't a few things to improve my game...

[Keyser Söze]

Wanna explain your thought process behind this particular improvement?

On the lines of

- if you find something uncomfortable about someone's posts, don't talk about it

do something about it

, vote for that player. Put pressure on them early, not later. Explain my reads more clearly.

[Keyser Söze]

Look at the votes on my wagon:

UNVOTE: Dierfire
VOTE: Keyser

OMGUS much...? Does Dwlee99 actually scum-read me?

DWL is Town and easy to lynch. Players voting DWL are therefore more likely to be Mafia.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Keyser

I feel this is a weak reason. I did not like how that sentence was constructed. "easy to lynch" - what part of Dwlee99's play is

easy to lynch

? His vote on me had a logical fallacy feeling to it.

"Player A is easy to lynch, therefore Player B who voted for Player A is more likely scum"

Still waiting for Dierfire's comments.

[Keyser Söze]

I like this improvement.

What are your thoughts on Garmr?

I didn't read his use of "

Honestly

" as scum-indicative.

Post #96 I would flag:
"Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched."
This is a

firm "back-off" threat

(hard to read as either anti-town or scummy) - I'm feeling this is either a real soft-PR claim (very defensive) or fake soft-PR claim (cornered-scum).

[Keyser Söze]

Why does no one else think Keyser is scum? He manipulated my post and completely ignored all of my reasoning and just said "OMGUS".

Read my post 58.

Tone of implosion's scum reads: I read as NOT serious.
Tone of your town reads: I read as serious, you also stated you were serious.

To repeat, I did not ignore implosion's reads (I even flagged them in the very same post) neither did I ignore your reasoning. Different tone = different read.

[Keyser Söze]

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

Regarding Garmr's roleclaim:
I disagree with the 'Bulletproof Townie' role being "not really an important role" - it's a role a townie usually wouldn't full-claim (so that they attract the night-kill) - scum would already know he's town so now they won't target him at night - thus, to full role-claim at L-4 is anti-town/scummy.
However, Garmr has now set himself up for both an investigation and policy-lynch (

scum would not have strong-motivation to do that

).

I'm particularly interested to see mykonian's take on the claim, incidentally.

I dislike that it was lead by a softclaim.

I call bullshit on his mention that he doesn't mind to be lynched: then what was the purpose of a claim there?

Yes, I had a null-read on his soft-claim because it was soft-claim

under pressure

(very defensive town/very defensive scum)

[Keyser Söze]

What do you think of Keyser? (Yes I'm still on that)

I am on V/LA until Sunday evening.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm back - I have 5 pages to catch-up with - full thoughts later.

[Keyser Söze]

Page 9, 10.

I've definitely got a scum read on Garmr now

,

but I'll put it on the back burner for now

- I'll wait for it to be really blatant before wanting him dead, we wouldn't want to lose a legit PR if it turns out we're wrong, even if it's just a BP.

If you have a scum-read on a player why would you back off? Gamr had already full-roleclaimed, so they'd be no risk of an early roleclaim. Pressure is good, expecially if you've "definitely got a scum read" on Gamr. But based on the second part of your sentence it sounds like you're doubting your own scum-read (so why 'put it on the back burner now'?).

Felissan:

"my vote will go somewhere completely different"

...Felissan then adds a 'pressure vote' on Hieirama.

I don't believe Felissan's 'definite' scum read of Gamr

.

I use "policy lynch" incorrectly maybe? The way I see it is: This player's posts don't seem to have scum Motivation, but they're being toxic to the Town wincon. They're the best lynch until someone proves to be genuinely scummy.

At this stage it is always best to push/vote/lynch who you think is scum. A policy lynch is easy for both town

and scum

to support - thus, we don't gain as much information on the wagon (i.e we'd gain more from players actively pressing their scum-reads (with reasons)).
Scum don't actively try to be 'toxic to the Town wincon' - 9 times out 10 they are bad-town.

If Garmr is Town then I have a strong feeling that the wagon was

scum-driven

, mainly because if how petty the original reason was. Could be

three Mafia

, could be

one

.

Attach some names to this 'analysis'.

[Keyser Söze]

Umm, I don't know how you're getting a scum read from anything in this post? Why is positive/negative vibes scummy? Why is having only one lean-town read on page 4 scummy?

Why does his reads-list being 'tough' make him scum? Why isn't it newb-town who is struggling to get into the game?

My scum-lean was based on:
I feel scum are more inclined to force an early reads/"vibes" list - while town are more likely to be finding out their reads at that early stage - under no pressure to complete a descriptive narrative of each player. I think she has since ditched her summary vibe-analysis. "Having only one lean-town read on page 4" is not scum-indicative. But I think feeling the need to post a full reads/narrative/vibes list with your 4th post is something to flag.

Looking at her ISO since that vibes-list I cannot see Hieirama pro-actively scum-hunting (a passenger so far).

"This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game…"

- I will need to look how she scum-hunted/pressed her scum-reads in games 1 to 3.

Cause now I feel like Garmr's posts are townie

and so I'm less sure of Garmr being scum. Gotta think.

Could you quote these "posts" - I would like to see your thought-process.

[Keyser Söze]

I have a town read on BBT (

gave a lot of effort catching up on the game, giving new points on old posts

)

"Effort" can come from both town and scum - what actual "points" made you town-read BlueBloodedToffee?

[Keyser Söze]

I read through pistachi0n's ISO.

pistachi0n (13 posts) Scum-lean read

RVS votes on Dierfire and herrcombs: post 4, post 14

I have mixed feelings with post 123. pistachi0n votes Gamr. I disagree with his

"chiming in RVS to say you don't see anything scummy when nobody prompted you is scummy"

- I do not believe it is out-right scum-indicative.

"Vote in 72 was OMGUS-y"

- I agree. It feels like pistachi0n is attacking Gamr's playstyle more than anything:

"He hasn't posted a scumread based on anything other than OMGUS."

(defensive/narrow-focus play / OMGUS can come from town and scum).

I agree with pistachi0n view that the use of "honestly" is not scum-indicative (post 175).

"Null/weak town"

: pistachi0n's now no longer scum-reads Gamr:

"But I like his responses and how he's challenging the accusations against him"

- I would like to see the responses pistachi0n liked. (I.e Why would only town 'challenge the accusations').

pistachi0n's now scum-reads Gamr:

With the random bp claim I'm now more confident in my vote on Garmr.

"But I like his responses and how he's challenging the accusations against him" - in pistachi0n's previous statement now void?

Defending the Gamr wagon:

@herrcombs--There are 4 votes. There need to be some votes to apply pressure, even early in the game. But nobody's rushing to instalynch. So what are you worried about?

This exchange of posts feels unnatural between pistachi0n and Hieirama :

It takes guts to stand up for players being wagoned.

No...it really doesn't.

I doubt a coward would do it.

Okay, fine, it either takes guts or it's scum who wants to gain town points.

Another change on his Gamr read:

Garmr--I'm not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier, when he claimed it seemed like he was making an appeal to emotion but then he came back strong, I thought 242 and after were good.

It feels like pistachi0n is adjusting his read on Gamr to fit the general consensus.

I would like to see pistachi0n explain where Gamr "came back strong", and explain why post 242 was "good".

Implosion--Weak scum,

I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points

, whether or not Garmr is scum.

"Get town points" - this would only work if Gamr is town (or if pistachi0n believes/knows Gamr is town).

VOTE: pistachi0n

[Keyser Söze]

I believe pistachi0n is L-3.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, did you finish catching up on the whole thread? Last I saw you were only up to p10?

I will have fully caught up by tonight.

pista was referring to myko here, not Garmr. His null/weak town read was on myko.

Thanks - therefore pistachi0n's read

did not

change as much as I first thought (from scum-read/voting to "not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier").
Moreover, my scum-lean read is

'not as certain'

of pistachi0n now

I'd still like to see evidence of the following though:

I would like to see pistachi0n explain where Gamr "came back strong", and explain why post 242 was "good".

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at her ISO since that vibes-list I cannot see Hieirama pro-actively scum-hunting (a passenger so far).

"This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game…"

- I will need to look how she scum-hunted/pressed her scum-reads in games 1 to 3.

My main account's name is "Carcalilly", if you'd like to search that up.

I looked up one of your old newbie games (it's finished) - in it you found it hard to put labels or firm town/scum reads on players. You also did not engage in much direct scum-hunting in that game either (asking players questions, looking at wagons...) - this could be your newb-town-meta. You have a playstyle that aims not to offend - which may stop you from pressing someone you find suspicious. But it can be easily newb-scum-play too (not committing to a read to not provoke attention).

Hieirama:

"I usually don't cast votes until I have evidence I'm content with"

- I need to see

you

actively looking for "evidence".

Hieirama - Null read.

[Keyser Söze]

I am a vanilla townie,

I'm an easy mislynch

, so be sure to look at my wagon tomorrow. Especially

people

who jumped on after my reads list like they needed the go-ahead to vote me.

What makes it "easy"?

Who are the "people"?

Here is your wagon: pistachi0n (6): herrcombs, implosion, BlueBloodedToffee, Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dierfire

[Keyser Söze]

Reread a bit and you can disagree with me here, but I don't think implosion was killed for his suspicions. He kept his reads close and given that feli's slot is the one replaced, I don't think that person gets a major say in the NK straight away. He came back on his dier read and anyway that's a common one. I think someone saw a pr tell there or scum had other motives with their kill.

"I don't think implosion was killed for his suspicions"

- he was probably NK'd because scum thought he had a town PR / actively pro-town.

"He kept his reads close"

- I disagree, implosion was very open giving their town/scum reads on D1. Looking at implosion's ISO:

Town-reads

(Dwlee99, BlueBloodedToffee, Garmr, Hieirama, mykonian, herrcombs, Dierfire)

Dwlee is probably town.

BBT is more weakly town.

Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

This feels town.

As does Dwlee's indictment of the myko wagon.

Also don't think Hiei is scum.

Garmr is like 99% town.

I think my working theory about this game is that the game so far has been largely driven by a pair of town wagons (Garmr, myko).

I also think I like herrcombs and Dierfire as town.

Scum-reads

(Hieirama, Felissan, pistachi0n, Dierfire)

Hiei is very slightly scummy for their opening post and subsequent reaction, but it's pretty insignificant.

VOTE: Felissan
"I just don't get a townvibe from you" after a vote feels like appeasement + a psychological desire not to commit to the read.

I think my main interests in scumhunting at the moment lie in Felissan and pistachi0n.

Yeah, you can actually ignore my townread on Dier.

implosion was very much against the Gamr lynch. He was implosion's strongest town-read. implosion did a 180 on his town-read of Dierfire, and concentrated most of his scum-hunting on Felissan and pistachi0n.

Furthermore, scum NK because they think that player has a PR, not because they're trying to set up a miss-lynch for D2 - so we can't read too much into implosion's reads, but they useful information.

[Keyser Söze]

hey keysor what do you think of the wagon that has put me on L-2 specifically lala and the fillis replacement.

I am going to look at pistachi0n's D1 lynch-wagon first (votes/reasons and those who

didn't

comment on it).

I am surprised if you are on L-2, but will catch-up now.

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at pistachi0n's lynch wagon (votes/reasons) -

herrcombs, implosion, BlueBloodedToffee, Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dierfire, Garmr

.

I'm going to VOTE: pistachi0n.

In your past few posts, it looks like you're not really trying to engage in fruitful discussion. I want to see some reads from you or something that looks like you're trying to figure out the game.

This vote feels like a push-to-action vote. Both scum or bad-town may not "engage in fruitful discussion", but I like this vote by herrcombs.

Unvote

VOTE: pistachi0n

I'm happy doing that.

VOTE: Pistachion

BlueBloodedToffee was happy with this D1 wagon. Reason for scum-read? Scummy 'reads-list and vote':

Above reads-list and vote is pretty bad. Pistachion, why did you include those people only in your reads?

VOTE: pistachi0n

My vote/Scum-lean read was based on i) pistachi0n scum-reading play-style/not content ii) I was uncomfortable with his exchange of posts with Hieirama (who I did not town-read) iii) his shift of read on Gamr (was Gamr a viable wagon anymore?) iv) pistachi0n on implosion:

"I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points, whether or not Garmr is scum"

- this sentence did not work if Gamr = scum.

anyway, might as well put my money where my mouth is.

vote pistache

Scum-read/found scum-tells in Gamr's play majority of D1 - I felt this was where his 'mouth' was.

Need to see why/where mykonian scum-read Pistachion

.

Pistachion's reads were somewhat superficial and certainly selective. In the face of previous lack of content that felt more intentional to me (dropping in for a line or two every now and again but not really engaging in meaningful dialogue--335 is a good example of jumping in briefly and then disappearing for another day), I think that it's enough for a vote.

UNVOTE: Hieirama
VOTE: Pistachi0n

Keyser's review also narrowed in on Pistachion quickly. I'd like to see a more complete review from him.

'superficial' reads and lack of content/pro-town dialogue with other players.

VOTE: pistachi0n

Changed my mind I'm eager to see how this slot flips.

Previous thoughts about wagon:

"I have nothing against a pisca lynch. I am in rush to end the day through."

Reason (?).

I need to see why/where Gamr scum-read Pistachion

.

Looking back at that wagon I am not comfortable with mykonian or Garmr's votes.

[Keyser Söze]

Hieirama seemed to be stalling and intentionally not giving opinions.

Good observation - but I had a null-read on this on D1 - it could be both newb-scum or newb-town. It's basically bad for town not to express reads though. However, I think scum-Hieirama would have adjusted her game-style to avoid attention.

yeah actually fuck that dier vote. Look at yesterday and tell me garmr isn't obvious scum. I'm stuck in that tunnel for good reasons. He didn't achieve anything but somehow does want to hammer.

Lives on a badly executed fakeclaim

.

"Execution" poor/anti-town, agreed. But does the bad execution effect the

legitimacy

of the claim?

If Dier is in your blind spot, why are you doing nothing about it?

not my place to do. Nothing stands out to me, he doesn't really stand out.

Can you explain this? You want focus on Dierfire but you do not want to personally look at him?

Keyser's ISO analysis feels like a stretch and I don't care for BBT's 399 at all.

Why did you not call it a "stretch" on D1?

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, I have just caught up to Meanmelter's first post... thoughts later today.

[Keyser Söze]

#182 I dont think his post is very town. It just draws off attention for the mafia to find someone else to nightkill. Unless he really is a different power role.

Good point - it is anti-town to draw attention off himself at night if Gamr

is

bulletproof. I don't think Gamr would false-claim if town (because he could risk a counter-claim). Mafia (hiding role) or Bulletproof Townie for me (his play invites attention/investigations).

You've done nothing at all productive for the town the entire game. You went from AFK one line posts to softclaiming out of no where and then hardclaiming thinking it was gonna somehow be useful for the town.

Agreed - the soft-to-hard bulletproof roleclaim followed by the hammer without the scum-read explanation is a nightmare D1. But would scum-Gamr self-destruct like this? I will need to re-look at my D1 town-lean read of Gamr.

the person who was town reading me the most dies.

[Keyser Söze]

I agree, that went by way too fast. It could mainly be because our time was running out.

That's some hard-hitting analysis there. Which votes on the wagon do you not like and why?

Also, if you think it went by too fast, why didn't you say anything when it was actually happening? Why resign yourself to "Well, the day will probably end soon?"

Not a fan of Haschel Cedricson aggression here but he asks some good questions: yes, it's easy to give retrospective views/opposition to past wagons/miss-lynches. Your opinions should be posted and your questions should be asked at the right time (and not a day late). We need to see/hear about the votes Hieirama does not like.

Keyser's review also narrowed in on Pistachion quickly. I'd like to see a more complete review from him.

And then he questions Keyser's reasons for his vote? Keyser's reasons were better than his imo.
Hmm... I'm starting to get why people aren't liking Dier...

I did flag Dierfire's post in my head at the time (did my 'narrow down' effect his read on Pistachion? It was a strange comment to add when joining a wagon), but his

'I'd like to see a more complete review from him'

comment about me was fair.

A good summary post from herrcombs RE: Gamr. (post 505) I share his feelings regarding Gamr. (Need to see Gamr to start finding scum and not defending his D1 play-style choices: the best way to defend yourself is through scum-hunting. Most of his D2 posts have been about other people's scum-read of him, or posts about his own wagon.)

I'm not trying to shove that under a rug at all. I thought you and Myko could be the scum team. And to me, it looks like you guys still can be.

Struggling to see a Mykonian-Gamr scum-team. They are either town-town or one scum-one town. A hard-tunnel on eachother would be too much of a risky play for D1. The two players whose play has attracted the most attention:

- Mykonian's running/non-stop commentary with many prodding/pushing posts for wagons

he

wants: I will town-lean read his openness/honesty.
- Gamr's bulletproof-roleclaim gameplan gone wrong: I am struggling to see his scum-motivation in being so openly ok with the choices he has made. I don't feel like he has held his hand up and admitted his D1 play was anti-town - which I feel like is possibly going against him (influencing other people's reads on him).

Going to look at Lalendra and Haschel Cedricson ISO's next - two players I neither have a town or scum read of. I have played with Haschel Cedricson before (in that mini-normal he grabbed the game by the balls and scum-hunted

hard

, but he has been notably quiet this game (17 posts).

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson ISO:

Vote: herrcombs

. He knows why.

I still don't fully understand this RVS vote (reaction test?). Please explain.

Lot's of early scum-reading in post 246, but no votes (

will Haschel Cedricson follow up with any of these suspicions?

):
(On Dwlee99)

This is a horrible misrepresentation.

(On herrcombs)

Don't like this one bit.

(On Hieirama)

This is scummy.

(On me and Gamr)

I don't like Keyser's rolefishing or the fact that Garmr bites on it.

Second, doesn't lynching anti-town instead of scum screw over the town by compunding things even more?

I agree with this point - never lynch someone you think is an 'anti-town' townie. Only lynch who you think is scum.

Town-reads Dierfire's post (post 334).
Votes Lalendra.

States his town-reads on Dierfire and Mykonian: post 462.
Scum-reading Hieirama and Lalendra.

Keyser's ISO analysis feels like a stretch and I don't care for BBT's 399 at all.

Will Haschel Cedricson press me?

Focus still on Hieirama and Lalendra: post 478, post 483, post 518.

Haschel Cedricson (18 posts) Null scum-lean

Uncomfortable with Haschel Cedricson's scum-hunting style this game. Points out scummy behaviour, but not putting equal pressure on ALL his scum-reads/suspicions (I feel like he should have grilled everyone who he found suspicious in post 246).

VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

[Keyser Söze]

I will complete my ISO analysis of Lalendra before replying to BlueBloodedToffee.

[Keyser Söze]

Lalendra ISO:

It took Lalendra 8 posts until she started analysing posts (post 259).
Calls Mykonian the "scummiest town" and unvotes him

Scum-reads Hieirama:

Hieirama – 76 seems like

feigned scumhunting

, as pointed out by herrcombs in 169. Could just be noobtown, someone who is trying to figure things out but not really sure where to go, but reads more like

noobscum

.

I will flag Lalendra's vote on Gamr:

I dislike PL but this is the wagon that I am most inclined to pursue at this point, because as Hieirama pointed out, being blatantly anti-town is almost as bad as being scum.
VOTE: Garmr

I disagree with trying to lynch someone you think is an anti-town townie - I see scum-motivation in supporting an 'easy lynch'.
Lalendra unvotes:

"since Garmr no longer seems like he's just going to mail it in the rest of the game, UNVOTE: Garmr I guess."

Town-reads Dwlee99:

"I agree that Dwlee is town".

Her read of Dierfire is interesting:

There is a lot of ambivalent wording in Dier's posts – “I could see that coming from mafia,” “not a particularly strong case but not a particularly weak one,” “I could see that from mafia,” etc. - which I know a lot of people see as scummy, but I don't necessarily think that's alignment-indicative. There are plenty of people who tend to be wishy-washy as either alignment. The fact that he has only posted 12 times in 112 pages is definitely problematic, I feel like he’s just sort of jumping in with opportunistic votes. While I don’t particularly like his play this game,

I’m not confident in reading him as scum

, because he does have a few good posts where he genuinely seems to be trying to sort the game, but I wish he would post more.

This feels like a mixed read (where Lalendra will be able to both town or scum read Dierfire later).

Diefire now becomes a potential lynch:

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but

I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch

, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

Felissan also flags this contradiction. Possible back-tracking here:

PEdit:

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

Did I just read that right? I don't see how you would agree with a lynch on someone you don't have an opinion on...

I want to put pressure on him to get information. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Votes Dierfire (post 377) - thus, no longer "undecided".

Possible opportunistic set-up here, opening up to the pistachi0n wagon (where was Lalendra's previous scum-read of pistachi0n?):

Keeping up with the game,

not opposed to the pistachi0 lynch

but I don't want to vote until we have an official VC. I think BBT's point is legit, we won't learn much more going in circles like this, and the Dier wagon isn't going anywhere.

Honestly I wasn't a fan of pistachio before the flip

, so I can't really disagree with anyone voting for him.

Need to see evidence for this.

If people look at my scum meta I should be like confirmed town at this point

The fact that you keep pointing out how town your meta is makes me think that you are analyzing the crap out of it and only scum would need to do that.

I agree with the theory here though - Yes, using town-meta tells to defend yourself is bad-town/scummy.

Lalendra (34 posts) Scum-lean

Her actions seemed to contradict her mixed scum-read on Dierfire. Hinted scum-reading pistachi0n D1, but could not see it in her ISO (but stated her support [was not on the pistachi0n miss-lynch wagon]).

[Keyser Söze]

about time myko starts looking at other players than me instead mof focusing on me the entire game and ignoring everyone else.

You need to stop focusing on yourself too

[Keyser Söze]

A few things really pinged me on this page - the back end of the pistachion wagon grew very quickly. I feel very good that

we have at least one, maybe two, scum in Keyser, Myko, Dier and Garmr. < This is today's lynch pool

.

"This is today's lynch pool"

- I will flag that line as scummy. Why are you lining-up today's lynch-pool based on the D1 miss-lynch wagon?

It's either a lazy town, or lazy scum suggestion.

Why do you think the other 2 votes on that wagon had 'town-motivation' and possibly up to 2 of those 4 votes you highlighted had 'scum-motivation'?

Keyser, why did you choose to ISO Hieirama in 424 instead of continuing your catch up? Especially an ISO that resulted in a null read - seems strange, like, what was the point of that post?

My read on Hieirama was part of my catch-up. My early read on Hieirama was scum-lean. The more posts I have read since my first 'interaction' with her I'm believing the sincerity in her

soft

-scumhunting more. She is still not a town-read though. From her posts I still don't get a sense of the players she thinks are scum. Town's focus should be:

find scum

. Scum's focus:

don't look scummy

. I don't know if RL is holding back her activity

What is wrong in posting my read of Hieirama? Do you agree/disagree with my concerns?

[Keyser Söze]

I just personally have not seen too much convincing evidence against my hypothesis. But there isn't much for it either. It is mostly their D1 aggression towards each other and this post does not sit with me too well -> XXX
In my original post I was thinking he was merely reaction fishing but he has yet to ever really comeback on it. And that's just the one thing giving me a feeling for the idea. Again, not very convincing.

@Keyser Söze: How would you feel if D1 Myko tunneled Garmr? Or perhaps, if Myko started tunneling Garmr D2? Would either change your stance on your opinion on the scum-team hypothesis?

I'm unsure of your question - mykonian

has

been tunneling Gamr since D1 (or you may have misunderstood what I said?).

mykonian's posts about/to Gamr on Day One

mykonian accuses Gamr of an early scum-tell:

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning. Buddying and at the same time showing off his mindset is scummy.

mykonian votes for Gamr:

well garmr sucks

vote garmr

mykonian states "Garmr is scum":

Garmr has mainly defensive posts and has only argued against me, tacks his vote on the wagon. Garmr is scum.

mykonian explaining why Gamr's use of "honestly" is scummy:

The keyword "honestly" is him stepping out of his role and coming with an opinion that he can see is true. So he comes from the mindset where he has to lie (as scum), then finds a situation where it isn't necessary. Herr's town and got falsely accused, garmr comments on it and shows his hand.

It would never work if herr's scum (since he'd be lying). They can't be buddies if the argument holds.

And even if you don't care about the motivation stuff, just look at garmr's overall posting. This is not the only passive post, the only aggression is pushing back against me. Garmr hasn't shown any initiative this game, has posted a couple of defensive posts.

mykonian sounds firm on Gamr scum-read:

I am pretty sure that sentence is garmr thinking he's in the winning position as long as I push against him, since people voted me for it. A high postcount isn't always beneficial for one's survival.

So don't think garmr thinks he can get me off him

, I think he believes he can get me lynched.

mykonian does not believe Gamr's soft-to-hard roleclaim (questions Gamr's motivation): post 204

mykonian still wants to lynch Gamr:

yup. We should lynch him.

mykonian encourages herrcombs to join him on Gamr's wagon (Gamr was L-3): post 218

I do have a policy of lynching people I think scum.

Hieirama's read on Gamr affects mykonian's read on Gamr:

The thing that's really throwing me for a loop here is hier's view of the garmr's case.

mykonian comments on Gamr's playstyle (but not his scum-motivation): post 253

mykonian insists that BlueBloodedToffee look at Gamr:

Not quite sure why you are letting garmr off after a poorly executed fakeclaim and half a case on a (former) lurker.

After that, nothing changed, his posting is still very defensive. Just do a count of his posts, which of them is actually interested in the people around him.

---------------------

Then mykonian joins the pistachi0n wagon late (Gamr was not getting lynched D1):

anyway, might as well put my money where my mouth is.

vote pistache

yup, I could follow that vote.

---------------------

Day Two

mykonian is right back on the Gamr tunnel:

Garmr should die a fiery death as well. Dier is in my blind spot, can't complain.

vote garmr

.

Garmr is a fine wagon obv.

---------------------

I still can't see mykonian-Gamr as scum-scum (serious hard-bussing/scum-reading) - moreover, expecially when Gamr had a wagon formed on D1 and D2.

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson and Lalendra have been quiet

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Lalendra

Unofficial VC

[4] Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, mykonian, Lalendra [L-2]
[3] Lalendra - Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze [L-3]
[1] Hieirama - herrcombs [L-5]
[1] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]


Not Voting - Haschel Cedricson, Hieirama

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Keyser Söze]

Fgs I triggered the defense tell again?
//tiny rant
I'm going to defend people until they give me a reason not to.

People sometimes don't defend players because they're scared of being called out for it... Or they're wrong...
But defending has benefits: could prevent a mislynch if it's right, gives a lot of information to look into if they sometime flip, and it brings counterarguments.
All arguments need to be put forward. Otherwise scum can just drive the main argument if it's in their favor because no one dares to go against the main argument.

I like this post from Hieirama - this is her most 'confident' stand on her opinion so far, with her logic clearly expressed.

Also that would be terrible scum play. If Garmr was actually a PR then Scum should try to get him lynched, not keep him alive. :/

This is a valid point - Hieirama has highlighted possible scum-motivation.

@p-edit: Votes aren't as alignment indicative as presented evidence is.

You should analyze their argument rather then their vote

.

What are your current thoughts on the

arguments

on Lalendra?

If you're reading Garmr as Town, then do you think that people voting for him are more likely to be Mafia?

Ehh

I can see one consisting in there

, but I'm not too positive since like almost everyone scumreads him. >_>
I think it's the evidence that they put up is more alignment indicative then the fact if they're voting or not.

Hieirama has highlighted scum-motivation in wanting to lynch Gamr, but has still yet to support her posts with a vote.

I will flag this fence-sitting

.

[Keyser Söze]

Okay, if I'm at L-1 then I guess it's claim time, before Garmr lolhammers again. I'm Town Doctor - can protect one player each night from a NK.

Could be a caught-scum-tactic to out the doctor - but as no one has counter-claimed: UNVOTE: Lalendra

(There are usually a cop and a doctor in mini-games so I am inclined to believe the claim).

[Keyser Söze]

It seems to me the question is if we think a doctor and a bulletproof townie would both be in the same game.

They are two different roles. One ACTIVE protective PR and one PASSIVE protective PR - why don't you think we could have both?
Do you believe both claims (with no counter-claims)?

[Keyser Söze]

I was away on the weekend. I should have posted V/L.A.

I am online this evening.

[Keyser Söze]

To be clear, I am still voting garmr. However if the Dier wagon picks up steam,

I will gladly sheep the fk out of it, because I am happy lynching either

.

Her past two post look pretty opportunistic to me

Post 724 actually made me laugh as I thought it was exactly something scum would be thinking, but too afraid to verbalize in the thread It's a bold/'honest' post from Lalendra - that scum wouldn't usually make in her position.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm finally caught up - I think we need to lynch one of Haschel or Dier today and I have a strong preference for Dier.

Would also lynch Keyser.

His strongest scum-read is Dierfire, but I have not seen much interactions between BlueBloodedToffee and Dierfire. Town-BlueBloodedToffee would usually lock horns with his scum-read. Here, BlueBloodedToffee is basically only posting 'I want Dierfire lynched' without adding any ammunition (talking AROUND Dierfire, not directly AT Dierfire):

OK, so are we lynching Dier yet?

Second part, I'm confused as to why you're not voting Dier?

I can assure you I'm not moving off of Dier.

My lynch preference would be Dier > Haschel > Lalendra. I liked your case and I agree that Lalendra is scummy, I just really don't like that Dier joined that wagon when he did.

I will continue to push for Dier.

Let's talk. Thoughts on Dier and Mykonian?

Can I get your thoughts on Dier please?

What are your thoughts on Dier?

I do not believe the sincerity of BlueBloodedToffee's scum-read - is he scum-reading Dierfire for meta-reasons?

I'm not seeing the Dier town read - talk to me about it. Everything he is posting feels off to me and

I can usually read Dier as town pretty quickly

.

I think I can read you pretty well, yeah. I usually town read you quite early, we both know this, I can't be bothered to go game searching.

This is not town Dier

.

Why do you think this is?

I don't think you've ever shown much difficulty in working me out before

.

BlueBloodedToffee is now on my uncomfortable list.

[Keyser Söze]

Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

.

Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either

.

Is a Hieirama vote "exactly the sort of thing [you] can get behind too?"

I need to see some consistency.

[Keyser Söze]

If you wanna come at me. Do it.

[Keyser Söze]

Could you quote Dierfire's posts regarding

these

comments:

I reread Dierfire's ISO and I'm back to FOS'ing him. He asks a lot of questions of other people,

but

offers very little of his own opinions

;

it seems like he is just mostly fence-sitting

,

and offering very wishy-washy opinions

, like he's trying to maintain distance from his reads in case he's wrong. I don't get the impression that it's just overly-cautious town play. I'd be comfortable with lynching him today.

[Keyser Söze]

I'd pick Haschel. It seems like he's popping in this game every so often only to take little prods at people without building serious reads or analyzing the game to any degree of depth.

I was uncomfortable with the timing of his vote:

Post 616, promises to catch-up:

Hey, I've been busy getting my own game off the ground. I'll get caught up tomorrow, I promise. Might even vote!

Post 664, Haschel Cedricson does not post a 'catch-up' analysis, just states he has made a "quick skim":

Did a quick skim

. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

. Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

[I believe Haschel Cedricson's vote put Lalendra to L-1: I no longer think Haschel Cedricson-Lalendra are scum-scum] Since Lalendra's roleclaim, Haschel Cedricson has not pressed the player he was also happy to "lynch" (Hieirama).

VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee is now on my uncomfortable list.

only now?

I have different levels of 'uncomfortableness'.

BlueBloodedToffee's

"This is today's lynch pool"

post was the turning point.

[Keyser Söze]

I'll try to get something done tonight, but no promises;

my computer keeps grinding to a halt.

1 day to deadline - still waiting on Haschel Cedricson's input.

RE: Lalendra - I will re-look at Lalendra's ISO. The only thing that made me unvote was her roleclaim.

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson or NO LYNCH.

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson was lynched. He was

Greetings, Haschel Cedricson!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Expelliarmus Mafiosa!

Day 3

Let's look at:
- Haschel Cedricson's wagon
- BlueBloodedToffee town/scum reads

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee was killed. He was

Greetings, BlueBloodedToffee!

You are a

Town Mason

. In addition to your vote, you have the following abilities.
- You may communicate during Pregame and at night in your Private Topic.

You win if all threats to the town have been eliminated.

I would recommend the other town mason not role-claiming until later. As soon as you claim you will basically be confirmed as town (thus, likely a NK).

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs posts the first vote on Haschel Cedricson's wagon (herrcombs earns a town-point here. The focus was on Garmr and Lalendra):

Spoiler:

I didn't realize that we have less than four IRL days left before the deadline. We should probably consolidate, yeah?

From what I understand, several people don't want to take sides in the Garmr vs Lalendra thing. I can understand the desire to let their PR claims sort themselves out. If I had to compromise (someone who's not Garmr/Lalendra/Hieirama), I'd pick Haschel. It seems like he's popping in this game every so often only to take little prods at people without building serious reads or analyzing the game to any degree of depth. He's flown under my radar all game but I could definitely see that as a scum tactic.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

This was the VC at the time:
[3] Garmr - Meanmelter, mykonian, Lalendra [L-3]
[2] Lalendra - herrcombs, Haschel Cedricson [L-4]
[1] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]

My vote on Haschel Cedricson (post 746).

Dierfire opposes the Haschel Cedricson wagon/reasons:

Anyway, the Haschel votes:
I don't really want to lynch him for that vote on Lalendra. She's still suspicious enough that I don't see that as a Mafia player trying to lynch quickly.

I am pleased with the compromise haschel lynch. I can join that in due time.

Why did mykonian not vote straight away? Was he happy with the Garmr/Lalendra wagons? (Yes, no).

We gonna lynch Garmr today or walk around Dier and Lala

Meanmelter makes no comment on the Haschel Cedricson wagon but supports the Garmr lynch.

Hieirama opposes the Haschel Cedricson wagon, supports the Dierfire lynch:

I don't like the Haschel lynch if he's not here to react to his wagon or claim. :/
I'm slightly Townreading Garmr and Lala.
So I guess I can agree with a Dier lynch. How many votes?

Huh, okay.

vote: dierfire

[3] Garmr - Meanmelter, mykonian, Lalendra [L-3]
[2] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee, Hieirama [L-4]
[2] Haschel Cedricson - herrcombs, Keyser Söze [L-4]
[1] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson [L-5]
Not Voting - Dierfire, Dwlee99, Garmr

Dierfire states he town-reads me and herrcombs and appears uncertain about the Haschel Cedricson wagon:

We're short on time. I really don't believe Lalendra's claim, and her addressing me in the third person telling me that I'd see her point if I read my ISO is not really an appropriate response to my challenge. My strong preference is to lynch Lalendra.

VOTE: Lalendra

If we can't make this happen, I'm not confident that any of the current wagons are on Mafia. I do believe that Herrcombs and Keyser are Town, so the Haschel wagon does not seem to be driven by Mafia, and I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

Garmr makes a 'survival' vote on Lalandra (Lalandra is now L-3):

Welp it's my death here if I don't jump on a wagon and deir and hasecal aren't on my scum list so.

VOTE: Lalandra

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs posts good reasons to stay off the Lalendra wagon, but states that he is open to her lynch:

I'm torn. I'd really prefer to let the Lalendra doc-claim resolve itself, but looking through her ISO, I still have to admit she looks really scummy... But I'm honestly worried about the composition of her wagon. I feel way better about sticking to Haschel. He's been a non-factor in this game and I don't see much in the way of town motivation or analysis from him. Plus, he hasn't claimed doc, so yeah. Call me a coward, but I still don't like the idea of lynching potential PRs.

If it means lynching Lalendra or going without a lynch, I'll choose the former, but I still feel really uneasy about her wagon...

mykonian votes Haschel Cedricson (Haschel Cedricson is now L-3) town-point for mykonian:

vote haschel

Not sure why you are giving him a free pass.

Garmr reads the emerging Haschel Cedricson wagon as a scum-counter wagon. I can see town-Garmr thinking this:

Also it looks like the wagon on me is dropping because in the end Lale will get lynched over me it's moved to haseacl as a last chance of keeping her alive. People want her alive but she isn't town read by the majority don't you think that is strange?

Dwlee99 agrees with the possibilty:

Are you saying that scum are trying to counter wagon haschel to keep her alive? That could be possible.

Garmr is sold on the Lalendra lynch (post 797, post 800).

herrcombs unvotes Haschel Cedricson and votes Lalendra (Lalendra is now L-2). The timing of this unvote/vote is bad:

Fuck it. You're actually right -- a Lala lynch gives us a hell of a lot more information than a Haschel lynch.

We'd better be right about this, or else I'm flipping my desk.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra L-2

BlueBloodedToffee against the Lalendra lynch: (post 802).

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs still open to the Haschel Cedricson lynch:

I'll be fine to lynch Lala or Haschel today. I think a Dier lynch would also give us quite a bit of information, but I'm not as comfortable about my read of him. He's making me uncomfortable for the same reasons as Haschel.

Meanmelter strongly against the Lalendra lynch:

Yea, no. I'm not voting Lala. You'll have to find your two votes somewhere else. This wagon is fucking awful btw

Would you vote for either Haschel or Dier, meanmelter?

Would you vote for either Haschel or Dier, meanmelter?

If I had to pick? Haschel. I'm really disliking his activity and I am not finding it townie tbh.

Meanmelter does NOT vote Haschel Cedricson.

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[2] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian [L-4]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[2] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee, Hieirama [L-4]
Not Voting - Dwlee99


BlueBloodedToffee makes a crucial vote:

I'm not voting a Doc.

VOTE: Haschel

Didn't realise a Hashcel wagon HAD taken off. That is 100% today's lynch.

The Garmr and Dierfire wagons are now dead.

Garmr REALLY wants the Lalendra lynch: post 829, post 830, post 837, post 842, post 847, post 854.
This does make me feel that Garmr didn't know Haschel Cedricson was scum.

Dwlee99's vote makes it L-2 (post 843)

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[4] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee [L-2]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[1] Dierfire - Hieirama [L-5]

[At this point I feel the Haschel Cedricson lynch was now inevitable, so no town-cred points here gents]:

herrcombs makes it L-1 (post 885)

Dierfire hammers (post 890).


I do not like Hieirama or Meanmelter's posting/movement/activity around the Haschel Cedricson lynch

[Keyser Söze]

Garmr, so does that mean that if a Mason claims they can't be Nked?

Town masons are neither lynchproof or bulletproof, but if/when the Town Mason claims, they will be basically confirmed town.

The night-kill is odd. Scum isn't trying to kill the

towniest

apparently, since BBT was read more suspiciously then people like Herr and Dwlee.
I don't think BBT PR-slipped, did they?

Who is the "towniest" player? ("Herr and Dwlee"?)
Yes, scum aren't interested in killing the 'towniest' townies - they want to kill PR's.

What are your thoughts on the development of the Haschel Cedricson D2 wagon?



I am also curious to hear Meanmelter's thoughts on the D2 wagons.

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, perfect time to look at Haschel Cedricson's ISO. In particular his town (POSITIVE) and scum (NEGATIVE) reads:

POSITIVE

Gamr

I think the softclaim actually makes the claim more likely.

mykonian

I like Mykonian's methods and don't see scum motivation behind them, with the caveat that I don't care for his reaction to Garmr's claim.

herrcombs

Starting at 84 his posts get much better in his interaction with myko. I also like his reaction to the Garmr situation.

Dierfire

Pro-town on both, albeit stronger for Dier. Dier's reads are well-founded and tend to go in similar directions to mine.

NEGATIVE

Dwlee99

This is a horrible misrepresentation.

herrcombs

Herr calls out Dwlee for manipulating mykonian's words, but then votes for mykonian for tone reasons. Don't like this one bit.

Hieirama

This is scummy.

:siren: BADPOST ALERT :siren:

Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

Keyser Söze and Gamr

I don't like Keyser's rolefishing or the fact that Garmr bites on it.

Keyser's ISO analysis feels like a stretch and I don't care for BBT's 399 at all.

Lalendra

Then don't vote for him, pressure him.

Vote: Lalendra

Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

.

I felt like Haschel Cedricson gave out many views/reads on behaviour of many players, but primarily focused only on Lalendra and Hieirama.
Lalendra wins a town point for being the wagon that Haschel Cedricson pushed D1/D2.
Haschel Cedricson did not vote for anyone else he'd given a negative remark on.
Interestingly, I could not find a read/opinion that Haschel Cedricson gave on Meanmelter.

[Keyser Söze]

I can agree with that statement, though I think that leaves room for scum to have a claim/counter-claim. I do wonder how many town masons there might be.

I doubt scum would counter-claim because it would instantly line themselves up for the lynch/investigation. Also, I have no doubt the masons have hinted/hidden their connection within the thread.

I do not understand. Are you questioning my inactivity?

Yes, here is my concern: looking back at that wagon, I feel like that was a crucial time for the Haschel Cedricson wagon to gain momentum.

You said you'd support the Haschel Cedricson wagon (but then don't make any further D2 posts)

Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian [L-4]

BlueBloodedToffee votes Haschel Cedricson (L-3).
Dwlee99's votes Haschel Cedricson (L-2).

[I feel like scum would have more likely lurked at this stage to ensure a no lynch/counter lynch than a lynch on their scum partner].

herrcombs votes Haschel Cedricson (L-1).
Dierfire votes Haschel Cedricson (hammer).

[Keyser Söze]

Going to look at BlueBloodedToffee's ISO later. 116 posts...

[Keyser Söze]

I will have limited internet from Sunday afternoon through to Wednesday evening so I will do a thorough catch-up now. No stone will be left unturned

I am also playing one other game approaching deadline so that will take priority over the next 3 days.

[Keyser Söze]

I'd be very surprised if haschel voted for a lynch on a buddy that might have gone through

, otoh, I'd expect him to distance if he saw the opportunity. Day 1 this is obvious different, he may have thought a good lynch could set him up there.

Yes, Haschel Cedricson put Lalendra to L-1 on D2:

Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

. Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

[5] Lalendra - Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs, Haschel Cedricson [L-1]

[4] Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, mykonian, Lalendra [L-2]
[1] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]
Not Voting - Hieirama

Haschel Cedricson made a "quick skim" and voted Lalendra (Gamr was at L-2). I can't see Haschel Cedricson putting his scum-partner (Lalendra) at L-1 when a Gamr wagon was thriving. After herrcombs had voted Lalendra, Haschel Cedricson likely swooped in to take advantage. IMO, this buys Lalendra serious

town points

.

Moreover, if Lalendra is town and we have 3 mafia, I doubt all three were on Lalendra's wagon:

Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs,

Haschel Cedricson

.

[Keyser Söze]

Common Townreads; Dwlee, Herr, Keyser.

It unsettles me

that it seems like scum haven't tried targeting them yet.

Were you surprised that implosion and BlueBloodedToffee were targeted N1/N2?

p.s. not liking how anti-Garmr Meanmelter is being

Hmm. Do you think Gamr is town? Are you happy with mykonian being "anti-Gamr"?

Yeah about that -

I protected BBT last night

so I'm wicked confused. I've never had this happen before, does this mean we're in multiball? Excuse the stupidity but I really don't know wtf to think right now

If true that suggests scum have:
- Mafia Roleblocker/Jailkeeper/Jack-of-all-Trades/Strongman

Note

Lalendra has now committed to 2 night actions/movements: N1: protect Mykonian (post 671) N2: protect BlueBloodedToffee (post 1005). (If she is scum she is taking a risk lying about night actions/movements).

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at

BlueBloodedToffee's ISO

, here are his reads:

Positive (town)

[Top town read: Dwlee99]

"Dwlee is town." [Dwlee99]
"I actually quite like this" [mykonian]
"This is town Dwlee." [Dwlee99]
"That Mykonian wagon is terrible." [mykonian]
"Dwlee's vote looks like OMGUS - but it's town OMGUS." [Dwlee99]
"I'm sticking to my guns, and my gut, that he is town." [Gamr]
"The only person on that wagon who I would confidently call town is Dwlee" [Dwlee99]
"I believe Garmr is likely town" [Gamr]
"Lalendra's latest posts just don't read as scum to me." [Lalendre]

Negative (scum)

[Top scum-read: Dierfire]

"This is a bad post" [Felissan-Meanmelter]
"VOTE: Garmr" [Gamr]
"I'm not opposed to a Hieirama wagon" [Hieirama]
"I think Garmr's is much better." [Gamr]
"this is scum!Garmr trying to insert himself into the game" [Gamr]
"I quite liked your questioning and I agreed that his manipulation of your post was scummy." [Keyser Söze]
"Yeah, I don't like this" [Gamr]
"I'm not seeing the Dier town read" [Dierfire]
"This looks like scum asking for an angle to get into the game." [Lalendra]
"I don't like this attack or vote." [Felissan-Meanmelter]
"I think I want to lynch inside of Pistachion, Dier and Felissan." [Dierfire, Felissan-Meanmelter]
"VOTE: Dier" [Dierfire]
"This is not town Dier." [Dierfire]
"Dier has been fairly non-committal this entire game and that's a worrying sign" [Dierfire]
"VOTE: Dier. This should happen today." [Dierfire]
"I disagree about Keyser's post" [Keyser Söze]
"I feel very good that we have at least one, maybe two, scum in Keyser, Myko, Dier and Garmr. < This is today's lynch pool." [Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dierfire, Gamr]
"This is bullshit." [Lalendre]
"Lalendra's and Mean's votes are pretty bad and I'm really not liking Myko's tunnel." [Lalendre, Meanmelter, mykonian]
"it's between you, Dier or Keyser for today's lynch. I like Dier to eat rope the most." [mykonian, Dierfire, Keyser Söze]
"Dier joined the Lalendra wagon and that makes me uncomfortable." [Dierfire]
"I think we need to lynch one of Haschel or Dier today and I have a strong preference for Dier." [Dierfire]
"Would also lynch Keyser." [Keyser Söze]
"I will continue to push for Dier." [Dierfire]
"My lynch preference would be Dier > Haschel > Lalendra." [Dierfire, Lalendra]
"I can assure you I'm not moving off of Dier." [Dierfire]
"OK, so are we lynching Dier yet?" [Dierfire]
"I think Dier, or Haschel, are far better options." [Dierfire]
"We're gonna lynch Dier." [Dierfire]

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee was putting serious pressure on Dierfire D2. His town-read on Dwlee99 was strong. BlueBloodedToffee had a scum-to-town change of read on both Gamr then Lalendre during D2. I'm going to re-look at both Dwlee99's and Dierfire's ISO's tomorrow morning (I'm not getting a strong town/scum read on either of them like BlueBloodedToffee was).

[Keyser Söze]

I am currently still on holiday, this will have my full attention no later Thursday.

[Keyser Söze]

Page 42

@Dier you mean My scum eead since day 2 Don't give myko that credit.

I had feli as a scum read before melta even came here myko don't act as if I didn't.

Garmr taking ownership of the Meanmelter wagon - this illustrates Garmr's confidence of his Meanmelter-scum-read.

He did state he was tired, however. I feel he might have came and posted a more in-detail read on everybody.

@Haschel Cedricson Do you not feel that others who have posted a small amount of reads are also worth voting for? AKA Me and Garmr

.This sounds like a scum buddy trying to convience another scum buddy to join a wagon. This is not how two town talk to each other. Considering how much of a noob meanmelter is I can see him making these type of slip ups.

Interestingly, Haschel Cedricson does not comment/reply to Meanmelter's question. I believe the Meanmelter-Haschel Cedricson interactions were one-way. It makes me wonder:

was Haschel Cedricson aware of this?

@Garmr, in that same post, Meanmelter posted a direct question to me too:

@Keyser Söze: How would you feel if D1 Myko tunneled Garmr? Or perhaps, if Myko started tunneling Garmr D2? Would either change your stance on your opinion on the scum-team hypothesis?

Does your "This is not how two town talk to each other" comment apply here too?

Vote mean with me with me then because

the longer this game goes on the easier I become to lynch.

If Mean is scum no matter who else you think is scum then vote him with me and lets lynch scum together.

Does the following not really seem to

bother anyone

?
First off, how are you easier to lynch the longer the game goes on?

Garmr is very self-aware of his 'lynch-bait' status. I do not like that he is highlighting it (possible WIFOM defence-tactic)

[Keyser Söze]

Page 43

Garmr reads the emerging Haschel Cedricson wagon as a scum-counter wagon. I can see town-Garmr thinking this:

tbf, I think this could also come from scum trying to protect his buddy.

Garmr REALLY wants the Lalendra lynch: post 829, post 830, post 837, post 842, post 847, post 854.
This does make me feel that Garmr didn't know Haschel Cedricson was scum.

Could you explain this for me Keyser? Are you saying if Garmr and Haschel were scumbuddies, Garmr wouldn't have had an outburst like that trying to get Lala lynched? Not sure I agree.

Here was my logic:

Would Scum-Garmr push the Lalendra lynch so hard, and in effect counter/oppose the Haschel Cedricson lynch so hard?
If both Haschel Cedricson/Lalendra are scum - possibly.
But if Lalendra is town, I think scum-Garmr was taking a huge risk in being on the wrong side of the Haschel Cedricson wagon (indirectly opposing it).
I thought scum-Garmr could have won more town-cred being open to a Haschel Cedricson lynch.

[

"laleandra or no lynch"
"fucking lynch scum lynch lalendra."
"If lalendra isn't lynched today I'm replacing out then I'll come back end game and rub it in your faces she was scum."
"Whats the case on hasechal being active that's a fucking shit case as he could have real life issues but lalendra has done no hunting,willing to lynch town over scum ect."
"so vote lale I want scum lynched it's aggravating since I been pushing her all day and I'm so close to getting the fake scum lynched."

]

Scum-Garmr was leaving no room for Haschel Cedricson being scum (i.e if Garmr knew Haschel Cedricson was scum, Garmr has actively practised the

opposite of scum-distancing

). But I can see how you could see this as a hard-defence from 'mafia-Garmr'. I was looking at how Garmr may have been

trying to project himself

- instead of looking at his actual actions.


herrcombs' summary of Meanmelter's-Garmr's interactions does well to sum up my thoughts too (post 1050).

Size vote mean melter man you been putting it off for no reason

We have 5 days, no need to rush this

So this makes me think two things you went

walls derp

and didn't read a thing which is not what a townie should do or

your scum buddies with mean melter and chainsawing for him

.

Overreaction much?

The 'mason' conversation between Dwlee99-Garmr...


Let's not play

'hunt the mason'

gents.

[Keyser Söze]

What the heck was that, Dwlee...?

Are you claiming something other than VT?

What the hell is this Hieirama?

p.s. not liking how anti-Garmr Meanmelter is being

VOTE: Meanmelter
Didn't feel that good about his tunnel, and I did agree with Garmr that there was a bit of misrep in his case. Also, the point Dwlee made about the refusing the defense accusations.

I actually like this last post from Hieirama because it finally has some continuity.

Yes, making a vote on a scum-read is pro-active, but I'm not dishing out a town-point here to Hieirama because it is delayed (again).

I don't know, that seems like awfully blatant scum behavior, and given that Garmr is (I think) more experienced than that, I'm not sure I agree. I'm starting to believe more that Garmr is just anti-town town, as opposed to blatant scum.

@Lalendra, I applied the above logic to the counter-wagon pushing addressed below:

Garmr reads the emerging Haschel Cedricson wagon as a scum-counter wagon. I can see town-Garmr thinking this:

tbf, I think this could also come from scum trying to protect his buddy.

Garmr REALLY wants the Lalendra lynch: post 829, post 830, post 837, post 842, post 847, post 854.
This does make me feel that Garmr didn't know Haschel Cedricson was scum.

Could you explain this for me Keyser? Are you saying if Garmr and Haschel were scumbuddies, Garmr wouldn't have had an outburst like that trying to get Lala lynched? Not sure I agree.

I agree with both of these points, this seems less like a town who was unaware of Haschel's alignment, and more like scum actively trying to push a counter-wagon.

I.e. It would be "awfully blatant scum behaviour" to passionately push a counter wagon away from your scum-partner.

[

Can we please use spoilers and snips, ladies and gents. All these wall quotes are impossible to digest.

]

[Keyser Söze]

This is where I am:

I do not like Hieirama or Meanmelter's posting/movement/activity around the Haschel Cedricson lynch

Interestingly, I could not find a read/opinion that Haschel Cedricson gave on Meanmelter.

Moreover, if Lalendra is town and we have 3 mafia, I doubt all three were on Lalendra's wagon:

Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs,

Haschel Cedricson

.

BlueBloodedToffee was putting serious pressure on Dierfire D2. His town-read on Dwlee99 was strong. BlueBloodedToffee had a scum-to-town change of read on both Gamr then Lalendre during D2. I'm going to re-look at both Dwlee99's and Dierfire's ISO's tomorrow morning (I'm not getting a strong town/scum read on either of them like BlueBloodedToffee was).

- Lalendra is not getting lynched
- My immediate suspicion would be on Meanmelter/Hieirama surrounding the Haschel Cedricson wagon/lynch
- I want to take a closer look at Dwlee99/Dierfire, but in particular Dierfire.
- But I very much doubt Dierfire-Garmr is scum-scum. Either one town or both town.
- Haschel Cedricson primarily scum read both Lalendra and Hieirama but only pushed a Lalendra lynch. There is more chance of scum-distancing via Hieirama, rather than Lalendra.

Here are the two D3 wagons:
[3] Garmr - mykonian, Meanmelter, herrcombs [L-2]
[3] Meanmelter - Garmr, Dierfire, Hieirama [L-2]

The Meanmelter wagon is supported by; Dierfire (who was BlueBloodedToffee's strongest scum-read, but I currently null-town-lean), Garmr (his playstyle and overreactions have created 'noise' around the wagon, similar to the noise he created around the Lalandre wagon which makes me hesitate to jump on, current town-lean) and Hieirama (a null-scum-lean read).

herrcombs and mykonian (my two strongest town-reads) are on the Garmr wagon.

I will vote tomorrow, not 100% happy putting Meanmelter at L-1 just yet.

[Keyser Söze]

Uhmm, what keyser? Herrcombs and mykonian are your two strongest town reads and on the garmr wagon but you are joining the meanmelter wagon??

Correct.

Now what are you really asking?

[Keyser Söze]

So you believe your town reads are wrong? You say "let's examine the wagons" or whatever and then say how your town reads are on one wagon but you join another??

If I scum-read Garmr I will vote Garmr

[Keyser Söze]

Hmm, interesting - I thought Meanmelter was going to roleclaim a PR.

(Roleclaiming VT basically makes laying the hammer easier)

Would love to hear from Hieirama's replacement too - we have just under 3 days left.

I'll be online in the next hour.

[Keyser Söze]

Well doing stuff includes reading so that's probably what I'd like to do. Any quick/dirty summary thus far?

Hi Aj The Epic, I would love to see which posts/votes

YOU

choose to highlight. Don't be shy

[Keyser Söze]

@Dwlle, Dierfire, Keyser, Garmr
So what are you guys gonna do D4 when I flip scum?

I will look at your wagon (both the votes/reasons, plus the posts/wagons around your own) - who supported the lynch? Who opposed it?

[Keyser Söze]

Well doing stuff includes reading so that's probably what I'd like to do. Any quick/dirty summary thus far?

Hi Aj The Epic, I would love to see which posts/votes

YOU

choose to highlight. Don't be shy

@Aj The Epic - please can you do "stuff".

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Meanmelter

[Keyser Söze]

No explanation keyser?

[Keyser Söze]

I will post a thorough catch-up tomorrow. One of my other games is approaching deadline.

[Keyser Söze]

Meanmelter was lynched. He was

Greetings,

Felissan

Meanmelter!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Sorry Meanmelter

I'm surprised laleandra was shot through probably shows that the role that countered laleandra was limited.

IMO, she was killed because she was no longer 'lynch-bait'.

Look if I'm not lynched today one of these village idiots (the one/ones that's not scum) will vote me tommorow and be the cause of town losing not me. So in attempt to win and salvage the game. VOTE: garmr

Please don't do this Garmr - why are you creating even more WIFOM on your slot? This is not the way to defend yourself.


First thing to do is look at Meanmelter's wagon (for both activity/posts/movement on and off the wagon):

Vote Count 3.F

5

Meanmelter - Garmr, Dierfire, Aj The Epic, Lalendra, Keyser Söze

[L-0]

3

Garmr - mykonian, Meanmelter, herrcombs [L-2]

Not Voting -

Dwlee99

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Meanmelter has been lynched!

We have 3 wagons to look at now: pistachi0n (D1), Haschel Cedricson (D2) and Meanmelter (D3).

[Keyser Söze]

It's not like even the first time I outed my role as town on day 1 with little to no pressure if I ever get a role like bp maybe not hider like last time but

bp I'm just going to claim it day 1 every time

.

@keysor yes I will confirm I am a power role I don't want to say what through.

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

Talk through with me why you role-claimed Bulletproof Townie in

this

game?

[Keyser Söze]

A look at the 3 lynch VC's (please add any observations/thoughts):

Vote Count 1.F

[7]

pistachi0n

- herrcombs,

implosion

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dierfire, Garmr

[L-0]

[2]

Lalendra

- Dwlee99,

Haschel Cedricson

[L-5]

[1]

Hieirama -

Felissan

[L-6]

[1]

Dierfire -

Lalendra

[L-6]

[1]

Dwlee99 -

pistachi0n

[L-6]

Not Voting -

Hieirama

Items of interest:
- Hieirama did not vote. Why no vote?
- You would say that at least 1 scum was on the pistachi0n wagon [herrcombs, Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dierfire, Garmr] An all-town miss-lynch? I doubt it.
- There were two votes on Lalendra, scum-Haschel Cedricson and Dwlee99. Would 2 scum stay on the same slot?
- Based on there being 3 mafia: if there is only 1 scum on the pistachi0n wagon, 1 of Dwlee99/Hieirama is scum.
- Reasons to stay off the pistachi0n wagon? To get town-cred: [Dwlee99, Hieirama]

My D1 miss-lynch wagon analysis: (post 523)
THE BAD:

Looking back at that wagon I am not comfortable with

mykonian

or

Garmr's

votes.

Vote Count 2.F

[6]

Haschel Cedricson

- Keyser Söze, mykonian,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Dwlee99, herrcombs, Dierfire

[L-0]

[2]

Lalendra

-

Haschel Cedricson

, Garmr [L-4]

[2]

Garmr -

Meanmelter

,

Lalendra

[L-4]

[1]

Dierfire - Hieirama [L-5]

Items of interest:
- everyone voted.
- 6 votes on Haschel Cedricson - is it an all-town wagon [Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dwlee99, herrcombs, Dierfire]? Did scum want town-cred?
- if Lalendra was a counter wagon, would have both scum voted? [scum-Haschel Cedricson, garmr].
- 2 players who didn't vote Haschel Cedricson [Hieirama, Garmr]
- Based on there being 3 mafia: if Garmr and Hieirama who were not on the Haschel Cedricson wagon are town, that means two of the Haschel Cedricson wagon are scum [Keyser Söze, mykonian, Dwlee99, herrcombs, Dierfire].

My D2 Haschel Cedricson wagon analysis: (post 927, post 928, post 930)
THE GOOD:

herrcombs

posts the first vote on Haschel Cedricson's wagon (herrcombs earns a town-point here. The focus was on Garmr and Lalendra):

mykonian

votes Haschel Cedricson (Haschel Cedricson is now L-3) town-point for mykonian:

THE BAD:

I do not like Hieirama or Meanmelter's posting/movement/activity around the Haschel Cedricson lynch

Vote Count 3.F

5

Meanmelter

- Garmr, Dierfire, Aj The Epic,

Lalendra

, Keyser Söze

[L-0]

3

Garmr - mykonian,

Meanmelter

, herrcombs [L-2]

Not Voting -

Dwlee99

Items of interest:
- Dwlee99 was not voting. Why no vote?
- You would say that at least 1 scum was on the Meanmelter wagon: [Garmr, Dierfire, Aj The Epic, Lalendra, Keyser Söze]
- Reasons to stay off the Meanmelter wagon? To get town-cred: [mykonian, herrcombs]
-

Keyser Söze, Dierfire and Garmr were on both the pistachi0n and the Meanmelter wagon

.
-

Garmr was on both the pistachi0n and the Meanmelter wagon but not the Haschel Cedricson wagon

.

[Keyser Söze]

I keep thinking to myself:

what is the motivation for scum-Garmr to make himself lynch-bait day after day?

- Early PR soft-roleclaim
- Early hard-roleclaim of Bulletproof Townie role
- pistachi0n hammer
- pushing the Lalendra lynch (thus, indirectly opposing the Haschel Cedricson wagon)
- pushing the Meanmelter lynch (I was guilty too )

I did not think Meanmelter would flip green... but Garmr has been making the 'wrong decisions' since D1 @Garmr - if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be lynching my ass, correct?



Garmr obviously deserves a grilling today, but looking over the movements/activity of the 3 lynches again makes me actually want to put

Aj The Epic (Hieirama)

and

Dwlee99

under pressure too.

[Keyser Söze]

I will L-1 when I get home from school

unless Meanmelter can convince me not to.

Why didn't you L-1 Meanmelter in the end?

Actually,

just lynch lalendra

. She's probably scum for post 86.

Read to page 8 where gamr goes "I am power role"...

I'd lynch that right then

. He wasn't in any position to need to claim and just outs to pressure off.

Two very strong scum-reads - no vote on either?

[Keyser Söze]

Because I'm unaware of 41 other pages? I don't know, common sense dictates what I read on page eight may not be the current game state on day 3.

'Common sense' dictates you at least acknowledge the VC?
It may be unfair to talk retrospectively - but your read on Meanmelter was the #1 priority.

[Keyser Söze]

Read 1135 and 1138 keyse

Ok, going to look at the Meanmelter wagon later.

[Keyser Söze]

A look at the 3 lynch VC's (please add any observations/thoughts):

^
Anyone?

I wonder why Keyser doesn't find me suspicious.

Part this:

read my ISO

.

Part this:

Moreover, if Lalendra is town and we have 3 mafia, I doubt all three were on Lalendra's wagon:

Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs,

Haschel Cedricson

.

Part this:

- But I very much doubt Dierfire-Garmr is scum-scum. Either one town or both town.

OK with 7 people alive

if I take out me and the mason

I have 40% chance of lynching scum today now if I factor my reads that will either rise or drop

I still don't think the mason should "out".

[Keyser Söze]

I didn't vote. I'll finish

catching up

here by the end of this week, but I don't have time for a lot of reading right now.

Need this catch-up ASAP Mr.Aj.

In the mean time, I'm going to re-read the posts/activity between Hieirama-Haschel Cedricson.

Lalendra flipped Town, so we assume that she wasn't lying when she said that she attempted to protect BBT. The Mafia either had a way to stop her action or a way to overpower her protection. The former makes little sense in a design that

only has one Town role with an activated ability;

the latter makes more sense in a design that has a Town BP than it does in one that does not have a Town BP.

Can you explain this more.

[Keyser Söze]

Going to re-flag this (possible scum-distancing).

From Haschel Cedricson's ISO:

NEGATIVE

Dwlee99

This is a horrible misrepresentation.

herrcombs

Herr calls out Dwlee for manipulating mykonian's words, but then votes for mykonian for tone reasons. Don't like this one bit.

Hieirama

This is scummy.

:siren: BADPOST ALERT :siren:

Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

Keyser Söze and Gamr

I don't like Keyser's rolefishing or the fact that Garmr bites on it.

Keyser's ISO analysis feels like a stretch and I don't care for BBT's 399 at all.

Lalendra

Then don't vote for him, pressure him.

Vote: Lalendra

Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

.

[Keyser Söze]

Any change in your reads, keyser, or naw?

I don't like Aj's silence, he is building up scum-points as every day passes. When he replaced in he came in with a bang with 'Let's lynch Lalendra', 'let's lynch Garmr', but has not shown the same intensity/drive for D4.

VOTE: AJ The Epic

I didn't like your vote/unvote on mykonian too - did you actually scum-read him or are you policing votes? It stank Dwlee99.

Not to mention you can't roleblock a mason. That vote is so awful, myko.
VOTE: Myko

UNVOTE: Myko

No no no no no garmr.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm studying for a test.

[Keyser Söze]

I'll catch-up this afternoon.

[Keyser Söze]

nonono

you are going to post some more

Just to continue the fact Myko is town.

Why is this town-mykonian?

he holds to this read list.

Do you think only town hold to their read list?

Then the person he had been following, he turns around and votes.

Yes, Dwlee99 has been flip-flopping his vote all game. Are the other times he's done it "awkward" too?

Talk of the devil...

Keep catching up please.
UNVOTE: Aj

Dwlee99, how are we to respect your vote if it doesn't mean anything?

[Keyser Söze]

The fact that you're

relying on me to generate any discussion for you

just isn't good.

What about herrcombs, me, Dierfire and Garmr?

Prodge. I really,

really

want to hear from AJ.

I'm studying for a test.

I, too, am waiting for AJ.

wait wait waiting.

Do you think we were relying on you to generate discussion too (a reason you are scum-reading Dwlee99 for)?

[Keyser Söze]

In your original post, you accused DWL of relying on you to generate discussion. It was your first sentence directly after voting DWL. This implies that you were using it as a justification for DWL being scum. Otherwise, why would you intentionally put it there? When Keyser pointed out the inconsistency, you backtracked and tried to make it a reference to the rest of the players. Not buying it.

This is exactly what I feared.

he has no viable people to lynch. He could vote me but in the end he would end up the counter wagon and most likely get lynched getting me town credit in the process.

Aj The Epic's 180 on your slot is the most suspicious thing (which actually earns you 2 bonus town points).

From this:

Garmr's post 89 is steeped in scum motives when he's talking to dwlee. "Yes, pressure a null read and IGNORE THE WAGON'S CURRENT SHIT STATUS and maybe get a better read". He also used an 'honestly' when self-reflecting earlier. Later on, he starts using it as if to dilute the purpose the word has in his own usage. I'd be interested in meta-diving a couple town games and just cont-f isos to see if it shows up often.

By page 6, it's looking like he should've been lynched...

Read to page 8 where gamr goes "I am power role"... I'd lynch that right then. He wasn't in any position to need to claim and just outs to pressure off.

In honesty, if it's been three days of focusing garmr without any investigative or substantive clears, he SHOULD"VE been lynched. This is a serious misplay by the town that he's still standing and that we have to deal with this now in mylo. I don't think he's town and my only real concern is I've never really played a full game with myko. I'll continue catching up but I doubt my opinion will change on this matter.

To this:

This post by itself isn't necessarily town. However,

I ran through his iso after and he holds to this read list

. That's the best counterpoint I have to lynching him so far, but it got little to no reaction. 1 known to be town, 1 I know to be town.

A town-read for 'holding to his read list'? Usually a strong scum-read needs strong evidence to counter it.

"I ran through his iso after and he holds to this read list"

< this is not strong evidence. It is NULL-indicative.

Aj The Epic realised Garmr was no longer a viable lynch for Day 4

.

[Keyser Söze]

vote aj

long enough. Night, people.

If you were happy to hammer him without a roleclaim, why didn't you vote him earlier mate?

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: AJ

VOTE: AJ The Epic

VOTE: AJ

UNVOTE: Aj

UNVOTE: AJ

VOTE: AJ

vote aj

UNVOTE:

vote dier

VOTE: aj

VOTE: AJ

VOTE: Aj

Note to Players: In case of unforeseen absence, backup moderating duties are to be assumed by N, or another user of his designation?

now to watch the aj die so i can bathe in his scum blood.

[Keyser Söze]

We must lynch scum or lose.

[Keyser Söze]

Let's figure out the scum pair before lynching anyone.

[Keyser Söze]

No Dwlee99.

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs-Dwlee haven't hammered either.

[Keyser Söze]

@Dwlee. It's basically 3vs2 right now. 1 misslynch and its gameover.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: mykonian