STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[mastin2]

Varsoon is literally the worst.

He's lucky it's ME who got this role (because I'm too stubborn to replace out), because the VAST majority of Scummers, if they had the role I do, would quickly lose interest in the game and replace out/flake.

...Basically, I'm a tree stump with all the sucky parts but none of the benefits. I'm voteless, will become conftown on D3, and yet, distinctly,

lack

the immunity to actions (in particular, y'know, NIGHTKILLS) that come with 'stumps. Yeah. I'm a bit bitter.

[mastin2]

(My vote is showing up in the list of votes though, so this is something which you'll probably want to test at some point. Needless to say, though, I'm telling the truth; I have no vote right now no matter what the votecount says.)

[mastin2]

In the mean time, though, because it doesn't really do anything,
VOTE: Sonic X.
Because it could never be a bad idea to vote them.

[mastin2]

(But actually, Sonix X is town and Ricastle is scum. Justsayin'.)

[mastin2]

Really? I love being conftown.

Voteless conftown vulnerable to being nightkilled though?

Not so much.

Speaking of conftown, though, I believe Vezok when he says he is. farside's got no reason to lie, either.

Also, Beer's posting is trololol obvscum posting, soyeah.

VOTE: Beer.

[mastin2]

Beer (3):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Sonic X

Mastin2 (1):

Ricastle

Not Voting (17):

Mastin2

In the mean time, though, because it doesn't really do anything, VOTE: Sonic X.

LITERALLY.
THE.
WORST.

(It's bad enough that my vote shows up there with it being useless. But now V's telling me I can't even use it AT ALL, not even as a pseudovote. )

[mastin2]

Oh, I see. Mastin is just plain voteless, not an actual stump.

Treestump = conftown who can't be targeted by anything, at the small price of not counting as alive and thus not having a vote. Sometimes triggered at will.
Me = will become conftown upon a trigger (D3), like a treestump, and being voteless, like a treestump, but lacking the immunity of a treestump, able to be voted, lynched, targeted by night actions, and nightkilled.

Like I said. All the sucky parts without any of the real benefits.

But I can't emphasize enough how much my vote should be on Beer right now. (After all, they're too filled with wine to be town!)

[mastin2]

Beer has the least annoying gimmick I've seen in a while. I think they're also pretty town so far in.
The biggest ping I've felt was reasonably rationals entrance. Just slightly awkward. Not sure if it was the overfocusing on claims part or just the outside looking in vibe I got from it but I'm interested in seeing more of them.

Beer's obvscum, and Rational's probably town.

Also, if Trench Warfare actually

does

have a clue on why I am what I say I am, then they're conftown. (Otherwise, disregard this.)

Maxwell's also pretty scum, btw. All these scum showing themselves, and not a single vote that I can make to show it. (I suppose I could symbolically vote, but it's pretty worthless given the mod won't even SHOW my moved useless vote. )

Also, Cheet's town.

[mastin2]

Really? No comment on the fact you've been called scum in like 10 posts?

Why would I need to? I mean, the mod has publicly revealed I'm not a liar via my vote not actually working. So I wasn't lying there. The only thing I could be lying about then is the conftown D3 part, in which case...lol? Time itself will reveal I'm not lying there soyeah. It's not worth dealing with.

[mastin2]

She.
SHE.
It's right in my damn profile.
SHE.

(Frankly at this point I begin to suspect alts for players who have never met me yet call me a he. )

[mastin2]

I'm even a girl character, so in every universe, I'm a SHE.

[mastin2]

(I really need to track down every bit of MD work I've ever done that has my gender listed as male and switch it because I think some of it does come from newbies reading my MD work since I'm very prominently featured on the wiki thanks to it.)

[mastin2]

mastina, will you stop that terrible habit of yours that is making bullshit reads on people on like page 3? It ruins your credibility. And yes, it CAN go down further

Funny you say this considering our reads are similar aside from Maxwell at a quick glance.

Anyway, I should be catching up today but I just

really

don't feel like it.

I mean, physically, I could; I'm recovering nicely from the ear infection. Timewise, I've got plenty of time to spare. I just got a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad feeling of deja vu for this game being Smite Mafia: THE SEQUEL.

[mastin2]

I don't really have the time to catch up tonight. Past midnight, getting up decently early.
I've got family night Friday, and stuff on the weekend (V/LA marker in my signature is there for good reason), so...Monday?

I'm sorry, I will read it all since it's not too terribly much to read, I just...well, I just kinda sorta lack the motivation for there to be much thought behind it.

[mastin2]

So I'm still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy back on page 8.
I should be catching up, but...well...

Just here to say, if you're following my blog, you'd know why I'm saying...hold, please.
Technical difficulties on my end = I'm not playing today. (Like, right now I'm doing something very, very sketchy and basically relying on Opera's

built-in blocker

because adblock and adblock plus are both not working. But I needed to say so on-site since nobody here actually READS my blog, soyeah.)

Like, I realize I really need to play in this game. Really, really need to get some content in, since my voice is all I've got.
But technical difficulties = delay. So I can't. (It's really annoying not knowing if you're being sabotaged by malware or anti-malware.)

[mastin2]

Might as well post here, too.
No, no posting today.
Yes, I'll post tomorrow. Problem got fixed, should have the time, and I'll be back in the game.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[mastin2]

Rather predictably, I am seriously considering going, "SCREW IT!" and skipping the, what, 34 pages I haven't read? and just going straight into the game.

Because guh. I don't feel like reading that much tonight.
I don't really remember much about this game anyway.

This is gonna suck. (Maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me because I'll be conftown. Or maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me because I randomly blurted out all their names in suspicious positions. Or maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me because I randomly start defending town names that they want to mislynch. Or maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me because of the

theoretical

threat I pose rather than the actual threat I'd be. Or maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me because I'd be a low-info, "safe" kill that's unlikely to be docced or watched. Or maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me out of pity. Or maybe I'll get lucky, and scum will kill me to "keep the game interesting". Butyeah...I kinda doubt any of these will come to pass, which means I'm stuck in the long-haul, too stubborn to replace out, in a game where I'm voteless.)

[mastin2]

Right, I remember Beer being scum.

I remember radmann being slightly suspicious.

I remember taking a look at Fuzzy and thinking scum, too.

I remember vezok being town. Both TW's being town. Maxwell being scum.

And that's about it.

Yet I don't really see how that parses with the current VC so basically I got nuthin'.

This is

really

gonna suck.

[mastin2]

I suppose right now I'd probably vote Fuzzy of the three names being wagoned the most, but that's basically hipgunning.

[mastin2]

VOTE: radmann
after reading the iso, this is an excellent excellent day 1 lynch on newbie scum. i am half-not feeling the fuzzy lynch right now, especially since it's starting to get into hivemind territory.

agree.

vote:radmann

quick question, I normally play minis, what is the standard scum spread in a large?

1) No lynch
Hope that we get info from the mafia kill tonight

2) Lynch Fuzzy
I am not a big fan of this option
3) lynch RR
less in favor as RR is a better town so far and at this point would be more helpful to the town
4) lynch Rand
this seems to be the lesser of the evil/
[/Vote Randb]
I think Rand has a fifty fifty chance of flipping scum.... As I said this seems like the lesser bad choice that I have been given. Plus a Rand flip might give us some scum info once he flips.

This ain't a good post. It presents a bunch of options as if they are actually valid options. This post is just trying to justify a hop onto rad which really only needed to be justified by quoting any of his posts.

"I don't like the fuzzy wagon"
"I don't like this fuzzy post".


(Cooldog may be scum, especially if as I suspect, Fuzzy is.)

[mastin2]

Right now posting to say that I'm taking a bit of a V/LA: not really in the best mindset to play tonight, my family's celebrating my birthday tomorrow (the only time we can celebrate it as a family even though it'll be six days early), and then there's my standard weekend V/LA.

Which really sucks given that in this game I've contributed absolutely nothing.
The last time I felt this godawful was in that one offsite DBZ game I had the misfortune of being a mason in. The whole town knew I was the mason, the scum did too, but the scum left me alive because I simply couldn't keep up. (That game was a scum win because of me btw.)
But guh. I don't want to replace out, especially not given that there are few and far people between who would want this junky role. I'm one of the few on the site who doesn't mind having no vote. So I should be making use of my voice.
Yet right now, I can't because, gah, circumstances.

Guarantee you, though, that I'll be active by the time I'm conftown, though.
(For the record, I'd be on page 43 normally, but that seems like too much for me to handle. From daystart today may be more manageable.)

[mastin2]

gladiators are always town

The town of Anything Goes called.

They want their loss to the scum gladiator back.



(:D)

(But no, seriously, Sonic's probably town anyway.)

[mastin2]

The whole claim felt wierd... I m a gladiator so I auto town. Why out yoursef for no reason. This felt like scum trying overly hard to make themself seem town. You were under no pressure and had no reason to claim.

unvote

vote Sonic

What? *sigh* Fuzzy...he just used a power which was CLEARLY a gladiator power. He had no reason to claim his character, sure, but his power was pretty obvious...
Why do I hate all your votes so much?
-Cerb

Probably because he's scum?

Also,
VOTE: Thefuzzylogic99.
To prove I still don't have my vote in case anyone was wondering.

[mastin2]

Metal Sonic (3):

fro99er, CoolDoG, Thefuzzylogic99

+Ricastle.
For what it's worth, really not liking that Sonic wagon.

[mastin2]

The only thing I'm afraid might happen is that Steven dying will do something stupid that hurts us.

Trust me, Steven dying isn't something scum're probably gonna have on their immediate agenda, though it'll be on their agenda before endgame.

(And, yes, I have a fair idea who Steven is. For obvious reasons, not saying anything about that, though.)

And on that note, I think the best time for a massclaim would be at least D3. (Would be the perfect chance to explain why I'm conftown on D3, too.)

[mastin2]

apparently <this game is not bastard> and <everything is working fine>
so
frogger has a role related gladiator counter
LYNCH HIM

Ascetic's a possibility.
I've seen it before. (Not going to link to the game because there's some very bad blood there which I'd rather bury.) A micro game. Gladiator was present as town, ascetic as scum. Gladiator used it on town, not scum, but if used on scum would have been wasted.

[mastin2]

Since it's obvious now...I'm ascetic, which is why Sonic's gladiate thing didn't work on me.

You know, it won't count, but screw it, it's symbolic enough.
VOTE: Fro99er.

[mastin2]

Can you two stop your bitch fighting and actually vote Bins scum?

Bins is probably town.

[mastin2]

I am confused how Fro is scum ..other than he blocked Sonic ability and he claimed Rose. The ability could be either town or scum . The Rose claim seem possible. I need more time to figure this mess out
and since Fro confirmed Sonic ability

[/unvote Sonicb]
Fro comments makes me think that Sonic claim was real and hids claim is real.
If Fro is Rose than I think he is solid town

(This still needs to die, btw. But frogger first.)

[mastin2]

I read the back and forth between sonic and frogger. Metal comes across desperate and frogger looks pretty relaxed.

What game are you reading?

[mastin2]

Mastin, help me, I can't read this fucking game. I just can't do it.

You're talking to the girl who's probably read less than 20 pages total.

But if you need my advice?

Vote Frogger.
After Frogger dies, vote Fuzzy.
From there, we'll try to figure out the rest.

[mastin2]

Certainly doesn't seem like it considering I got the opposite impression.

[mastin2]

You think that I'd lie about being conftown come D3?

[mastin2]

Your not exactly playing a stellar game, so why not.

[mastin2]

Mastina, vote with me on Constantine. Sonic v Frogger is t v t.

No, I'm pretty sure Constatine is town.

[mastin2]

(And that Frogger isn't.)

[mastin2]

Mouth zipped.

You'll know on D3 though.

[mastin2]

The late ascetic claim was done in a really scummy way with no prior indication to the role being legit.

I see plenty about the Bins situation that can be town. Mainly, town that don't read their role PM correctly being vastly more likely than scum who don't read their role PM correctly, and from what I hear it doesn't sound like a case of scum revisionism like Drixx and instead sounds more like a case of, "Whoops" like is my wont. (You'd be surprised just how

notorious

I am for misreading my role PM as town. Never as scum though.)

[mastin2]

The claim didn't look town, though.

And when it comes to Bins, maybe from an insider's perspective it looks different.
But from out here I'm just not seeing the scum.

[mastin2]

I told you there were repercussions to threatening me. Did I ever once get an apology?
Anyways, I had my reasons.

Hey, Constantine.
If you're town, you have the pleasure of being the first ever person to be on my blacklist.

And frankly scum or not,

I

am so ticked off that I want you dead on policy alone to show how your behavior is

not

acceptable.
...AND I HATE POLICY LYNCHING.

You're just THAT atrocious.

[mastin2]

Mod can you force replace this guy

Other's please support this as WotC

/

Support

.

[mastin2]

Constantine why the fuck are you replacing into a shitton of games and then taking shits on them; playing worse than the predecessor and/or another average replacement? I find it remarkable.

This, too. I can vouch for what Sonic is saying.

[mastin2]

Only people who are scum will find your [actions] funny.

^Basically, that.

It was borderline gamethrowing off of your whims. Even if that neighborhood has so much as one scum in it, it's doing a darn good job of being pro-town and we'd be able to maximize its utility--and that'd be under the assumption of a scum being present, when it is infinitely more likely that the neighborhood is made up of all town. So nuking it, off of stupid suspicion without any consultation whatsoever, is stupider than hipgunning a shot trying to be a hero vig. (Hint: 95% of hero-vigs are zero-vigs. That is, vigs who hit 0% scum. You are never the 5%.)

Sonic: why is frogger scum?

Because he looks like scum and is acting like scum.

Having the ability to move someone's vote when you are aligned is neutral in nature. Telling everyone about it is town IMO.

No, telling everyone about it is equally null, because it is self-evident. Not telling would be a condemnation because it'd be pathetically easy to figure out. The only way scum could use hiding it to their advantage is to have Frogger not vote at all until someone's at L-2 and spring a surprise-hammer...which would earn Frogger a condemnation the next day. Ergo, Frogger MUST tell us about it, or be condemned for not doing so.

Also, any SMITE survivor should know better than to make assumptions like this. *coughcoughIwasSOrightaboutacebeingscumcoughcough*

[mastin2]

Also, about vigs:
I happen to be in the know about vigs to some extent, about their statistics.
Their usage in Normals, at least.

They're extraordinarily rare these days because they're too swingy.
The majority of vigs in Normals have gotten

lynched

.

Think about that for a moment.
Realize that a significant portion of that vig hate comes from hero-vigging.
Then proceed to never, ever, EVER do anything resembling it again.

[mastin2]

Not liking cooldog here. He's been in a hood with Frogger and now all of a sudden thinks Frogger's role is scum. Don't think so. If he actually thought that, I would expect a push from Cooldog sooner and frustration about being aligned with scum or someone who steals his vote.

For what it's worth, I think one of--but not both of--Frogger and Cooldog are scum.

Fuzzy's scum regardless of them, though, so might actually be the better lynch here.

[mastin2]

YouwereSOwrongaboutDrixxbeing3rdpartywhocouldwinwithtown

Said it before, will say it again. Can't use that game against me because I have no shame--defending Drixx as hard as I did may have been a mistake, but the majority of my defense was spent (correctly) on ZX, not Drixx, AND I was one day away from outting Drixx as scum: I was not trusting him blindly; my plan had a failsafe built in. I was investigating Espeonage. I would have gotten a guilty. Drixx was supposed to shoot. If he didn't shoot, I'd out him as scum. If he changed his claim, I'd lynch him as scum. If he lynched town by using his power other than ZX/me, then I'd lynch him as scum. If he lynched one of ZX/me, the other would lynch him as scum. If he lynched one of ZX/me and the other got nightkilled, the town would lynch him as scum. In other words, he was half a phase from being outted as scum, BY MY PLAN, when I died. Along with a second scum, Espeonage. And as I said I was right about the double-voting scum Ace (and later filling the slot) Otolia being scum.

So damn right I'll bring up SMITE all I like. It might not have been a stellar game, but it was a decently solid game, which occasionally bears relevance to future games. Like right now, with Frogger. In SMITE, Ace and later Otolia demonstrated the double-vote freely and was quite open about it. People townread the slot for it. They were wrong, the slot was scum. Does that make Frogger scum,

not necessarily

, but does it make Frogger not more likely to be town? Damn straight. Nulltell, not a towntell.

VOTE: Fuzzy
Let's do this instead.

Has my support. (Wish I could vote, but, y'know. Can't.)

[mastin2]

(Also, if Drixx lynched Esp in a bus, I'd still lynch him as scum.)

[mastin2]

(Drixx and ZZZX in particular can confirm this, though Metal Sonic, TSO, and maybe farside should all be able to more or less confirm this with their recollections. There's a strong notable similarity between Otolia's play and Frogger's.)

[mastin2]

Calling dead scum town and insisting on it is not a solid game.

But he wasn't dead scum. He had access to their PT, but he was in all other aspects third party. His wincon required all (but one, with said one being optional) scum to be dead. Thus, a weird SK/Usurper hybrid. Interactions-wise, yeah, his scumbuddies didn't know this, thus, treated him as if he were a really powerful member of the scumteam, but that information was NOT flipped with AP, thus, the only players who knew he was in the scum topic after he flipped were the scum themselves. Ergo, as town it was a perfectly reasonable and half-accurate assumption to say that AP was not scum. (Because by HIS PLAY he wasn't aiming for a scum win; he was aiming for a personal win. Thus, not personally scum.) I know what I'm saying is contrived and convoluted, but, well, so was the role.
tl;dr: His role wasn't scum. He didn't play it as scum. Scum thought he was scum...but after he flipped, town were not informed of this. Thus there was absolutely no way short of omnipotence to know scum thought he was scum.

I really don't understand why scum would even admit to the vanillazing power. That's my main issue with the thought that they're scum. Why the hell would they tell us that?

Playing devil's advocate here, for the sake of not being a hypocrite.

Scum can't really

not

say it, else they'll be easily identified. Think, scum enter. Scum leave. At the moment scum leave, powers lost. Town thought would be...yep, scum left = powers gone. Thus, scum entering have to say it, to not get auto-condemnation when they do it.

That being said, still townread the Bins slot anyway, soyeah.

[mastin2]

OMG. Lol. I just noticed that. You're blaming him for your shitty shot? No, you get to take credit for your bad play.
-Cerb

Yeah, Ricastle?
You're probably town, but I'd blame you a hundred times over for every time I'd blame wgeurts. (Not that I wouldn't blame him at all, just that by proportions, you're quite a bit higher on the blame list than him.)

So much facepalming.

Yeah, come on. Diminish me all you want; but I know that ANYONE would have done what I did if they were in my shoes.

See this long list of people (myself included) saying otherwise to you Ricastle?

Yeah, that one?

...Yeah...you might not be ALONE in shooting them, but you're pretty much in the minority.

Also, 2031 pretty sure wasn't a scumslip, but the wording makes it possible from Frogger.
Justsayin.

[mastin2]

Can we lynch fro99er or titus?

Vezok, if Titus is who I think she is, she's town. Admittedly I could be wrong on who she is, but if I'm right then she is not someone you want to push so could you do me a favor and assume I'm right on who she is and thus that she's town?

[mastin2]

No, lying to town is never a logical thought process unless you have a powerful role

>TW had a powerful role.
>TW lied to the town.
>The process was extremely logical and pro-town.
>Thus, I hold little blame towards TW's actions.

More or less for me.

[mastin2]

I don't, however, believe either Ricastle or yourself can blame him for your knee-jerk reactions. Try thinking before you act. If something can't be undone...don't fucking do it any earlier than you have to. You think he's scum? Plan to vig him? Milk him for some fucking information first.
-Cerb

This, btw. So much this.

[mastin2]

Mastin: what do you think of nic?

Absolute, utter "meh".

(Also, Sniffling Croissant!)

/skimread caught up.

[mastin2]

You know.
I'm caught up.
As in, I've read everything.
It's just that it's in one ear, right out the other. (And yes, people talking shit with me not really bothering.)
That is, I'm hearing the words, not listening to them.
Reading them, not processing them.
Just emptiness.

[mastin2]

Walls.
Words.
Me, in the thread.
Seeing them.
Mind.
Giant, "Meh".
Gone.

I'm sorry, but that's what I'm seeing. Nothing is really, well, feeling productive.

[mastin2]

You have done nothing all game but bitched. Tell me why I should believe anything you say?

Because the more of a bitch I am, the more you can believe I have an ace up my sleeve that would be a "get out of lynch free" card. Ergo, small bitch in Signs for small card, medium bitch in SMITE for medium card, major bitch in this game for a major card.

If your town scum hunt

YOU have no place to talk about this, farside. I've been in SEVERAL games of yours where you as town can and have replaced out because you, bluntly, couldn't scumhunt.

It's not that I'm not trying. It's that I AM trying, but there's literally nothing there.

You need to give something to this game, other then throwing your role out there.

Whenever I see something worth commenting on, I comment on it.

The problem is, I'm literally seeing nothing of interest.
At all.

There are a few things that I could say, sure, but I've already said them. Things like TW is town, Ricastle is a moron but town, Constantine is a moron but town, RR is probably town, and such, but like I've said. I said them already. Saying them again won't do any good because nothing about my reasoning has changed. The reads aren't stronger or more emphasized with new content. They're at the same strength as they were at once spawned.

[mastin2]

I'm also totally behind a Replace In lynch. If that one ends up having more traction that Constantine, I'll move.

Oh. I guess that one's a new one.

Yeah, I have a townread on Replace-in. I don't think scum goes about doing things in the way Replace-in did, but this is mostly just a gut thing, not a strong read. Would prefer we lynch elsewhere, though, so there's that.

[mastin2]

I know I promised post yesterday, but had life happen and sleep depribed now, will do later, maybe?

Right, I also remember that I have a bit of a scumread on Cooldog, and think that one of--but not both of--Cooldog and Frogger are scum.

And on that subject, Fuzzy's my main scumread.

But I said all of this already, which is why my point stands, there's nothing for me to say that I haven't already said.

[mastin2]

Oh, by the way Far, thanks for reminding me that Sonic is scummy as shit. I almost forgot he existed!

And thanks for reminding me Sonic is town!

[mastin2]

Well i never run across a lazy mastin

How.
many.
times.
HOW MANY TIMES.
How many games.
How many places.
Must it be shown?

Signs and Void.
Organic Chemistry.
Ikaruga.
We Didn't Playtest This.
Even a section of SMITE.
That one Mini Normal modded by Radiant Cowbells which was basically my worst towngame of all time thanks to this.
Do I have to say it.
Literally every. damn. game?

Motivation != alignment.
Motivation = mental health.
And yes, that's situational dependent, especially given how my bipolar disorder works. I can be manic enough to hyperfocus on a game, and then get all depressed and not do any other games (maybe not even the game I was hyperfocusing on) for a while. I get stuck. I lack motivation. I lack the drive. I lack the energy. I lack the passion. It happens. I try to get out of it. Generally, I succeed. Sometimes, I fail. This game's more of a failure than a success, but look at this! I'm commenting. I'm still trying. I'm replying to things of interest, to note them and try and be as productive as a stuck me can be.

[mastin2]

(Oh, not to mention, HUGE swaths of Sabotage Mafia.
Endless number of towngames, it happens.
It happens in scumgames, sure, so not exactly a towntell, but it's overwhelmingly present in my games because it's a sucky part of who I am that I very much would love to get rid of but unfortunately can't control. The options are play with the risk of it and deal with the consequences when it happens, or not play at all. I'm pretty sure I got invited to this game, though, which means that at least the person inviting me thought it was worth the risk.)

[mastin2]

when frogger flips scum then I will blame you all for being stupid

(For the record, right now I lean more Frogger than Cooldog for scum. That bit easily could change, and is probably one of the only things of mine that

does

change off of the new posts.)

[mastin2]

She brings up a prior game where ascetic was scum and thinks he might have scum slipped in one post.

No, that's not it at all. I think that the way Frogger went about claiming Ascetic was extremely sketchy, and that the whole Sonic-Frogger interactions massively go into Sonic's favor, not Frogger's. There's a strong precedence for the game having a mafia ascetic and a town gladiator, too, because--and this is something I just now remembered--that micro I mentioned with the gladiator and the mafia ascetic?

Varsoon, OUR MODERATOR, was a player in it!

(The scumbuddy of the ascetic, more specifically.)

[mastin2]

Like...just wow, I can't believe I didn't remember that until just now. (That's what I get for blocking the game out of my mind, I guess, thanks to the bad blood there.)

I'm not going to link it, even though I think this is a REALLY strong reason for Sonic to be town and Frogger to be scum, because of the bad blood present (basically I don't want to acknowledge that game any more than absolutely necessary), but if you search for Varsoon in micro games, you're bound to come across the game sooner or later to see it yourself.

Yeah, Frogger's scum.

(Btw, the thought did occur to me that it's possible both Cooldog and Frogger are, unlikely as I initially thought that was, but I'll push that aside for the time being, and just very strongly encourage people to lynch Frogger now.)

[mastin2]

Screw it, you people are probably too lazy to track it down yourself. Here, have the relevant excerpts:

Once during the game, you may target a player. For the rest of the game day, the only votes that will be counted will be against you and your target.

Any non-killing action that targets you will fail.

Varsoon, the mod of this game, was in the game these two role PMs came from. (As the partner to the Mafia Ascetic.)

Sound familiar?

So I repeat.

Sonic X is town. Fro99er is scum.

[mastin2]

And yes I think this is legit, because it's basically too large a coincidence for it to be anything other than intentional.
And I find it hard to believe--especially not knowing in advance I'd be in the game--that Varsoon would mess with those two roles by changing their alignment, specifically so that IF they were claimed/used, that some player would track down the micro and make the connection. Insane he might be, but I don't think he's THAT kind of insane. Far, far, FAR more likely, he'd assume

nobody would know

, and therefore, use roles from that game.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Replace In

Btw, there were like five votes on Replace in over the course of less than a page, soyeah, def. not a fan of that wagon.

[mastin2]

Do you have anything to back up me being scum other than a prior setup?

A prior setup

our mod was in and intimately exposed to

? Well, yes, I do. I have the extremely-sketchy way you went about claiming ascetic, and generally you being on the losing end of your 1v1 fights. (In short, quoting people like Sonic X.) Plus gut, plus a scummy role, plus a sketchy alliance between you and Cooldog with an ally PT that sounds entirely on your part at minimum to not be very sincere.

So not too terribly much.

[mastin2]

@Mastin - How am I being insincere in my PT with cooldog?

Everything I'm hearing from it simply isn't sounding like the PT of a town player interacting with an unknown-alignment player. (Cooldog.)

and how am I "losing a 1v1 with sonic" ... can you give examples?

Basically?

Every time Sonic made a point against you (okay, I shouldn't say every time, but the majority of the time), I agreed with it; every time you made a point against Sonic, I disagreed very strongly with it.

So exactly what I said: losing the 1v1.

[mastin2]

When Fro99er flips scum.
And Sonic town.

You will all look very, very stupid.

[mastin2]

Mastina do you get your vote back tomorrow? Help me with it.

No, I'm voteless the whole. freakin'. time.

It's presumably to help counterbalance the power of the conftown-on-D3 bit in my role. (I'd claim, but I'd rather keep the scum guessing. I'll be conftown tomorrow; the method matters just enough that I'm keeping a tight lip on it.)

I don't really like either the replace or hermit wagons, which really sucks because that's all we've got going on today.

You could always vote for Fro99er! That's what I'd heavily encourage. That, or Fuzzy; one of the two. (Preferably Frogger.)

Like, I know it won't count and is merely symbolic, but once again to emphasize,
VOTE: Fro99er.

[mastin2]

Honestly, like I want them both to go down. Now they're just jumping onto each other because it's the only avenue they have left.
I don't know how good the possibility of both of them being scum is, though. Like I said, the only avenue they have left.. it looks like both of them are going for survival here, and there were better lynch options than each other, at least I think so. Someone wanna weigh in on that?

Maxwell's scum, btw. Justsayin'.

[mastin2]

Btw, readslist:

Trench Warfare
Sonic X
farside22
Ricastle
St Constantine the Hermit/Bins
Reasonably Rational

vezokpiraka
grapes
Bookitty/Fluminator
Skybird

NicCage
Replace in/radmann9

MaxwellPuckett
CooLDoG
Thefuzzylogic99
fro99er/Ra9in9 Bull


Something like this, with a note that from vezok down to Replace In is null for various reasons and thus very, very, VERY flexible in order. Top/bottom are obviously town/scum though.

[mastin2]

Also, I'd like to point out that Cheetory6 the dead-via-nightkill player suspected Ra9in9 Bull.

Yeah, mason and whatnot, but I feel like I owe Cheet the benefit of NKed-for-reads, not role. ("But, mason! Obviously dead for that!" Probably, sure, yeah, but not necessarily. I was a mason in Antihero's game and had perfect reads and THAT, not my status as a mason, got me killed. I had good reads in a Xeno game I believe it was, and it was THAT, not my role as a mason, that got me nightkilled. Thus, why I feel I owe Cheet the benefit of the doubt.)

[mastin2]

Can you explain why Hermit is town... what about his actions so far makes him so much town that he is high on your list????

Because I REALLY don't see the scum in there and see a fair amount of town.

Maybe that's because I'm outside the neighborhood, but I call it as I see it.

...Also, his wagon sucks.

IMastin is your Constantine townread the same as Rational's?

Partially

. The towncase made about them (forget which hydra in the neighborhood made it) contributed to my townread, but was not the soul basis of it.

Btw, of the wagons, the Constantine wagon sucks more. (The ONLY town name on there is Sonic X.) But I really do think they're both on town.

[mastin2]

Speaking of VCs, though...

Ra9in9 Bull (4):

Beer, grapes, Trench Warfare, Ricastle

3/4 of these are basically conftown right now, with only grapes in question--I'd say that's a pretty solid wagon, no?

Reasonably Rational (5):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, grapes, Bins, MaxwellPuckett

Thefuzzylogic99 (4):

Sonic X, grapes, Skybird, Marquis

Fuzzy's alignment is difficult to gauge, but the wagon there looks at least potentially promising for being town, thus on scum. In contrast, the most-town name on the RR wagon is the Constantine slot...which really says something. In particular, Maxwell stands out.

Thefuzzylogic99 (5):

Sonic X, grapes, Skybird, Marquis, Cheetory6

Reasonably Rational (4):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, grapes, Bins

radmann9 (4):

TunnelWarriors, Ricastle, Trench Warfare, MaxwellPuckett

The fuzzy wagon continues to be good, and I do admit there is promise behind the Replace-in wagon slot.

Replace in (7):

TunnelWarriors, Ricastle, Trench Warfare, MaxwellPuckett, Marquis, Thefuzzylogic99, CooLDoG

Thefuzzylogic99 (4):

Sonic X, grapes, Skybird, Cheetory6

Reasonably Rational (4):

vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, grapes, Bins

It peaked here, but I have mixed feelings. It's basically comprised of all the top townreads AND the top scumreads I have.

So I don't know what to think about it. It's possible to be scum, I will admit, I just don't feel it is.

Beer (9):

Replace in, NicCage, Fluminator, Marquis, vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Skybird, Ricastle, Sonic X

Replace in (3):

TunnelWarriors, MaxwellPuckett, CooLDoG

Thefuzzylogic99 (2):

grapes, Cheetory6

Reasonably Rational (2):

grapes, Bins

Ra9in9 Bull (2):

Beer, Trench Warfare

I skipped a few VCs, but this is where the Beer wagon really dominates the game.

Beer (10):

Replace in, NicCage, Fluminator, Marquis, vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Skybird, Sonic X, Bins, grapes

Ra9in9 Bull (4):

Beer, Trench Warfare, Ricastle, Cheetory6

Replace in (3):

TunnelWarriors, MaxwellPuckett, CooLDoG

Interestingly, Raging Bull formed as a counterwagon to Beer, rather than the other way around, but that makes sense: Beer was town, and look at the names on the Raging Bull wagon: Conftown by flip, conftown by my word, conftown by derpvig, and conftown by flip. So it makes complete sense, and makes Raging Bull, AKA Fro99er, look a LOT more like scum.

As for the Beer wagon: I'm probably wrong on some of my scumreads, since I kinda doubt an all-town wagon exists, thus there's gonna be some scum in my nulls. But while the VC suggests that my scumreads aren't going to be entirely accurate...I still think that regardless, they're a good starting point.

IF NO OTHER READ OF MINE IS VALID, the takeaway from this should be that Fro99er is scum,though. Like, I'd discard my Cooldog, Fuzzy, and maaaaaaaaaaaaayybe Maxwell scumreads in a heartbeat because they're basically just my gut reactions to their posting, but Frogger? Frogger is scum in every way you can catch scum. And I would really. REALLY. prefer we lynch him over Constantine and Replace-in.

I'll take the flak for being wrong if either of Constantine or Replace-in are scum. But I want people to trust me on this about Frogger.

[mastin2]

Like.

I kinda want to invoke the Sabotage-Cephrir call.
Or, alternatively, the Signs and Void-DV/4nxi3ty call.

By which, I mean, the scumread of scumreads, THE read I will latch onto ABOVE ALL OTHERS.

[mastin2]

And beg to have it be pushed through.

Do I need to get on my knees and give you puppy-eyes?
(Or would you prefer the more ragey, shouty approach?)

[mastin2]

Sonic:

You're right! Frogger is scum! Please come help me in my crusade by lynching him. Be my vote along-side my voice. I need your support to do it.

Titus:

(I'm presuming it was the Titus head that voted Ra9in9 Bull, via ika) You voted for Frogger; what changed your mind?

Ricastle:

Same question to you.

Grapes:

You had an early Frogger vote; would you be willing to join a resurgence in the wagon?

[mastin2]

Constantine:

If I continue to provide for your safety and dismantle your wagon, can you come help me with a Frogger wagon rather than Replace-in?

[mastin2]

...And for that matter,

Replace-in:

Come with me if you want to live.
Vote Frogger, not Constantine.

[mastin2]

NicCage:

Why aren't you voting?

Bookitty:

I know you just came into the game, but if you think this is the sort of game where I'm ~onto~ something (like I was our last two games, albeit me messing up in the end during the first one), then please trust me and vote for Frogger.

[mastin2]

If I got all of the above to vote, that would be 8/9 needed. (AHG, NOT HAVING A VOTE MYSELF

SUCKS

SO BAD!)
And I'm sure that someone I didn't name would be willing to hammer a wagon that gained that much momentum.

Come on, we can do it, you just have to ~believe~.

[mastin2]

Leave the moving to me.
What I lack in vote I make up in voice.

Cooldog:

I realize you can't exactly vote Frogger thanks to Frogger's role, but can you hammer when Frogger gets to L-1 please?

NicCage:

Just isoed you and you said you were waffling on Frogger. Between the scummy looks and the valid point you asked which I don't think Frogger answered, please, help out by voting.

[mastin2]

vote fro99er

I agree with sonic though. This needs death.

vezokpiraka:

Can you support the Frogger wagon again, like you did back here?

It CAN get to a lynch.

[mastin2]

How did Frogger redeem himself? Because the meta case was pretty damning.

TSO:

Please for the love of god talk to Titus. She might not approve of you moving the vote onto Frogger (even though I'd love it if you did that for me), but at least talk to her about it if you still feel this way. (For the record, I obviously feel the ika point was valid.)

[mastin2]

Also, I'm gonna do what Sonic was too lazy to: quote Beer about Raging Bull, AKA, Frogger. (Or Fro99er, if you prefer to be technical.)

Bull/NicCage are the two players that seriously seriously need to be looked at when I flip town. Bull is white knighting us: he continually tries to ascribe scum motivation to town players pushing out wagon that isn't there, his thought process doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and he keeps complaining about people pushing him for his activity when the entire push is on Ika for his inactivity.

You've seen Ika lurk as town, ok. Has he ever gone through an entire day phase with this little content as town before? Do you really think that ika replaces out of this game without telling his own hydra partner as town or do you think he at least makes an effort to defend himself/explain what happened? I can't stress enough how straightforward and easy the Ika read is. Read his completed games. Skim his ISOs. He lurks comically hard as scum (which is what he's doing here). He puts some sort of effort in as town. That's it.

Vezok's somewhat shadiness in terms of being forthright about what was said and the hated claim deal and I am not feeling good about a Beer wagon. He's probably getting lynched anyway because deadline, but you are my strongest scumread because both you and ZZ are playing to your scum meta.

Vezok has been shady about the situation? Hasn't seemed that way at all to me. It seems like he made a misguided push and put his heart into it; you say that he claiming we were hated happened too late but he did it early enough where the town could have did something about it and he was additionally under no obligation to share our claim because it is our responsibility to get in thread and claim our shit. You trying to pin our lynch on his shadiness is bullshit.

There's also that matter of the empty claim of Sonic/ZZZX playing to their scum meta: are you planning on backing that up, or do you hope vague meta assertions about other players are going to carry you to victory?

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"
Beer obviously isn't hated
Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch. Beer could still be hated.
VOTE: Sonic X

This is an extraordinarily lame vote. You think that Sonic-scum pushes that we are scum because we are not hated when we only have 9 votes on us?

So activity is? It's so annoying when I'm read as town or as scum based on activity

Don't care about your activity. I care about Ika's. There's a very strong correlation between activity and alignment with him and he's shown no signs of fixing that correlation anytime soon.
I don't think you've done anything that looks particularly town, either: pushing vezok for not paraphrasing the PT shows that you're not reading his posts very closely or looking at his play as a whole.

GOOD LYNCHES:
Ra9in9 Bull: I love this vote because it's so lovely and so easy. When ika posts, he's town. When ika doesn't post, he's scum. Ika isn't posting. He is probably scum! Now there is this nasty caveat that the slot might be scum thanks to the bulletproof claim that was crumbed at the beginning of the game but it's not a shining light of overwhelming towniness that makes me feel bad about voting the slot or anything like that.

Vote: Raging Bull

This seems like a fairly straightforward vote and the likeliest to hit scum at the moment. Ika has a very distinct meta: as town, he does something. As scum, he does nothing but lurk. All he is doing here is lurking.

There ya go.

Yeah, yeah. Lynched player, who also had some provably-bad reads (e.g. Marquis, Cheetory). I'm not saying to blindly sheep them; they should be taken with a grain of salt. But I am also asking that people read the above and consider it.

[mastin2]

why did you out our BP

Also don't see this as town.

[mastin2]

Good god, why of all the roles i get this......
Meh at least the other part is ok. I got a few to chat but then i got work

This also doesn't look good, either.

[mastin2]

I'm not voting frogger. That wagon screams bad things.

All of its one voters?

WHAT bad things?

The only bad thing about it is how it's not larger than it is!

[mastin2]

Swear to god, if we don't get that Frogger lynch, any protective PR needs to be on Ricastle so that Ricastle can hero-vig Frogger.

[mastin2]

Quick note before I go to work:
Another couple of points against Frogger are that ika's rage looked entirely faked (as did most of his posting for that matter), and that Frogger's posting has been fairly bad overall: there are admittedly large chunks in the middle that are okay, but both near the beginning and the end, it's nothing but bad posting. That, not even going into the Raging Bull posting which was just terrible.

I really wish I had more time to talk right now, because there's not only the above I want to talk about in more detail, but also one or two others that I want to explain:
One, that it's unlikely Varsoon would include THREE different double-voters with one of them as a vote thief, and make them all town. Two, that when it came to the power roles from the Micro, Varsoon felt that the town was overpowered and scum underpowered by my memory, and that he ranted about it--so do you honestly think that in THIS game, he'd make the scum EVEN WEAKER and the town EVEN STRONGER by having a town ascetic vote thief? No, by far the more likely answer is that V buffed the power of the mafia ascetic to be a vote thief, because by someone's own admission (forget who), Varsoon makes ridiculously-strong scum roles. And ascetic vote thief (keep in mind that scum ascetic IS EFFECTIVELY A GODFATHER!) seems to fit the bill.

[mastin2]

Mastin2, you made two very passionate posts on how one should NEVER hero-vig, and here you are telling ricastle to hero-vig.

Yes.

WHICH SHOULD TELL YOU WHAT I MEAN ABOUT FROGGER!

The fact that there's this much resistance to a Fro99er wagon should tell you something, too! Even people who

have supported the wagon

are hesitant to join it. Such as Ricastle. Heck! Vezok's iso contains nothing but Frogger-bashing the entire time as far as I can tell, so he should have no reason to resist, yet here he is insisting that something about the basically-nonexistent-at-the-time wagon is bad!

[mastin2]

Add in the conftown mass commute/reflexive kill by TunnelWarriors and you claiming you are conftown tomorrow, then what kind of powers do you think scum has, and why haven't we seen any yet?

I think we have: YOURS! Ascetic for town = macho-miller essentially, unable to be investigated or protected. Ascetic for SCUM? SUPERIOR in strength to a Godfather, because it effectively makes them half-ninja (immune to trackers), half-strongman (immune to roleblockers), and COMPLETE godfather (immune to cops, rolecops, gunsmiths, vanilla cops, and whatnot). Throw in the vote thief power? You've got one heck of a strong scum role.

[mastin2]

Like, why would Replace In try to clear me via flavor? That's not scum motivation to try to clear someone (me) who was/is being somewhat widely scum read (at the time even more so than now)

On this point, though, I agree.

Reason I'm not scumreading Replace-in after all.

I just don't think Constantine is scum, either, thus the need for a third wagon.

[mastin2]

Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that?

How do you not see that Frogger isn't town? It's townVscum, SonicVFrogger. And now I get to turn around and flip the point in Frogger's defense against him: you're saying this generic thing about Frogger being town, without backing up why. (The irony!)

[mastin2]

- Frog is scum because beer and cheetory said so (while ignoring marquis said I'm town)

Marquis wasn't the nightkill.

Cheetory was. Marquis died as a RESULT of the nightkill, but was not the target. Cheet was, therefore Cheet's opinion > Marquis's opinion.

And now I'm going to be 15 minutes late for work.

[mastin2]

So I only have fifteen minutes. Doubt I'll be able to read the two pages (back on 103 right now) in that time, but I'll try.

I logged in for additional points against Frogger.
Near-universally, vote thief (which is basically what Frogger's ally power is) is a scum ability. I realize that searching for vote thieves is a problem because (1) it's an extremely rare role, and (2) it's almost always in a theme and thus not necessarily called by that name (vote thieves being CALLED vote thieves are in the minority!), but for every instance of a town vote thief you find, you can find ten instances of a scum vote thief. The reason why is clear: because while there is basically minimal utility in a town player stealing the vote of another player (one who is far more likely to be town than scum anyway, ESPECIALLY given the allying system!), there is

massive

utility in a scum player stealing the vote of a player (especially a town one), even if the steal is limited to one player and is public in nature.

Then you look into the ascetic half. Let's for the sake of argument discard the fact that Varsoon included a 1x Gladiator and that Fro99er claimed to be an ascetic, when in a previous game that Varsoon was in, that combination would make Fro99er scum. Let's just assume that for one second, that point isn't valid and that it actually IS coincidence. (It's not, I guarantee you it's not, but for the sake of argument...) Let's focus on just the ascetic bit. What is the utility in a town ascetic? There basically is none; it's considered a negative utility role, akin to a miller.

What is the utility in a scum ascetic? As I have said--and take it from me, I'm a NORMAL REVIEWER so I actually GET THIS AS PART OF MY JOB!--Mafia Ascetics are used in lieu of Godfathers, and while weaker in the sense that they're not giving a false positive, they're stronger in that they interfere with all town investigative roles (including the RB) rather than just the one. So Mafia Ascetics, again I know this for a fact, are in the rise usage-wise.

Ergo, Fro99er's role is not just half scum.
It's entirely scum.
There's minimal to zero town utility behind the role, while offering scum MASSIVE utility.

Frogger is scum. Guarantee you. By setup. By mod meta. By play of hydra partner. By VCA. By dead town analysis. And by own play. (Admittedly I've yet to show the last bit, but I'm planning on it when I have more time.) Whoever else might be scum. Maybe Replace-in, maybe Constantine. It doesn't matter. Leave them for another day. Heck, the presence of an ascetic Fro99er's alignment regardless implies the presence of an investigative PR, so if you're that desperate to learn their alignment let a cop take care of them or something. You can't do that for Fro99er, though. So just lynch him today. Not tomorrow, today.

[mastin2]

Also, should mention that I'm considering kicking farside out of the town section because I don't recall seeing her EVER be this much of an arrogant insufferable jerkass in any of our prior games where she was town, and similarly vezok's lack of support NOW when it matters, whereas previously everything he said prior was suggesting he should be in support, both make me extremely paranoid. However, for the time being, I'm discarding those thoughts on those two as just that. Maybe they're scum, they're probably not, but if I live to see D3, I'll give it a better look then, not now, because today is NOT the day to go thinking about paranoid what-ifs. (I just need to vocalize it in the chance I get NKed. Throw it out there to be quickly discarded, so to speak.)

And sorry, I'm a slower typist than I thought, so I've run out of time and will have to do 103 onward later tonight.

tl;dr: Ignore this post, it's just me making a note to look at players later, after D2--focus on my previous post and why Fro99er is scum.

[mastin2]

Btw, another point against Frogger is that BP claim earlier. (Still need to catch up, am doing so soon.)
As a town ascetic, know what your job is?

To die via nightkill

. Like a town miller.
Alternatively, to draw scum PRs if unclaimed, even though that strategy is questionable even at its best.

Know what claiming BP does?

Ensures you don't die via nightkill

.

[mastin2]

Like, I'm raising a ton. TON. Of points against Frogger, which are a wide variety of different things, different angles to look at it. And basically the only thing, the only way to write that off, is, "Well, his play looks town?"

[mastin2]

Mastin, what could ricastles lack of support for voting frog have to do with frog's alignment? That's sort of sophistic territory you're walking into there. Vezo though idk, that would be nice to hear about.

The basic point is a response to the Replace-in wagon.

"Oh, hey, it's been hard to wagon Replace-in, that means Replace-in must be scum."

To which, I responded, "Oh, YEAH? Just look at the Frogger wagon, which

has resistance from people who

previously supported it and haven't changed their mind

. And go tell me THAT isn't a hard wagon."

I'm fighting tooth and nail here for every vote.

All the while

, struggling to maintain those already existing,

and

with the risk of the existing wagons overtaking my counterwagon attempt at any time to get a lynch. The Fro99er wagon is viable, sure, but it struggles to be tangible.

In contrast, the Replace-in wagon and the Constantine wagon have both existed since the beginning of the day, essentially--the Replace-in wagon going further back than that, to D1! They've been both viable and tangible the entire time (thus, are likely mislynches), so basically, the 'point' against Replace-in is actually a huge black mark against Fro99er, not Replace-in.

[mastin2]

So you think we have
dayvig
gladiate
whatever constantine's power is
reflexive kill/mass commute
you conftown D3
masons
that can't all be town there. No way.

Gladiate--more or less proven. Also town.
Dayvig. Proven. Town.
Reflexive kill/mass commute. Flipped town.
Masons. Flipped town. (Technically they were mason-lovers.)
Me. Town tomorrow.
Constantine. The only name in there not 100% town, but his role is mostly negative utility, not positive utility. Admittedly, it could be a scum role...but only by applying the identical reason to scumread YOU. That being, little town utility, lots scum utility. So if you scumread Constantine for his role...yeah.

Varsoon's answer to strong towns isn't to nerf them. It's to buff the scum. Which, again...a mafia ascetic does a PERFECT job of.

[mastin2]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

[mastin2]

Fro99er also hasn't *done* anything.

Which is, by itself, a something!

Would scum ascetic frogger not tell town he was ascetic, so that way he gets to be a PL for not sharing that information earlier in the game?

And who says he had any intention of being outted as ascetic? A cop failing in their investigation isn't going to go, "Hmm, must be ascetic." They're going to think, "Hmm, musta been roleblocked." Same for ANY role acting during the night. If a role targets an ascetic player, they're not going to think the player they're targeting caused the failure; they'll suspect an outside source. Basic human nature, given the relative rarity of ascetics and the relative commonality of roleblocker-type roles. In fact, Sonic X with a gladiate is probably one of the ONLY roles who targeting Frogger WON'T produce the, "I must have been roleblocked" reaction, since ascetic is basically the only real answer to the shot being expended yet having failed.

[mastin2]

Hey Mastin, when you get back, why do you feel that Maxwell is scum?

Basically, while I see the sincerity people talk about in Maxwell's tone, none of it feels "real". By which, I mean...when I see his tone, I can see the look of being genuine, but when I examine beneath the surface, I don't see any town thoughts. In short, while his words sound good, he seems like a sweettalker, a con man, who makes you think he is something which he isn't. I simply don't see the town motive behind his posting; what I see looks like scum who're just coasting by on what effectively amounts to a free mislynch or two in regards to Replace-in and Constantine.

But it's admittedly mostly a gut thing, which is why I'd happily revisit the read some other time, but now's not the time for me to go about trying to refine my reads list and nail the entire scumteam. Doing so would be an effort in futility and only ensure that Frogger escaped the noose. So focusing on Fro99er is my main priority right now.

[mastin2]

I don’t care that Varsoon may have seen the scum ascetic/ town gladiator before.

May have

seen?!?

He was in the fucking game!

Fuck it. I swore I wouldn't bring that game up, but you clearly are all lazy idiots who refuse to do your own damn research without me wagging the leash in front of you, so here I go. The game in question.

I find it impossible. Literally. fucking. impossible. That we have a 1x Gladiator claim. And an ascetic claim. With Varsoon as the mod. As COINCIDENCE. When he was in that fucking game.

[mastin2]

@mastin and everyone else who's willing to listen to reason: fro99er is not a problem role as scum if he's outed. Replace in is scum with a way better role than him. Help me lynch replace in and we lynch froger tomorrow.

Enlighten me where Replace-in actually claimed?

Because I haven't seen it, though I have the suspicion that if I did, I'd be townreading Replace-in

harder

.

[mastin2]

That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

This is an absolute shit point too.

Replace-in voted Constantine out of survivalism: Replace-in was the largest wagon, and Constantine the second-largest.

When Replace-in bothered to look at the wagon on Constantine, Replace-in made the analysis that it was a bad wagon, and

in spite of it basically ensuring Replace-in as the lynch

, said that anyway, and I believe hopped off.

Know what that is?

That's town.

Not scum.

RAISING this point AGAINST Replace-in, though, THAT is scum.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you were town-reading Vezok D1 and now you have him listed as null. I didn't see anything in your ISO that shows why he's slipped down.

The townread was purely off of his role (okay, I liked his Beer push too), as is the townread on farside.

I'm no longer willing to make that assumption. Maybe they're town, maybe they're not. I can put effort into figuring it out tomorrow if I live, but like I've said, my first and foremost priority is making sure we actually lynch scum today.

Which Replace-in is increasingly screaming to me as not being.
And which I really don't think Constantine is, either.

Soooooooooooooooo, I'm going after Fro99er.

[mastin2]

CoolDog's push on Ricastle was bad, but I dunno if that's scum-bad.

For the record, in agreement about here.

Of all those in the list I had as scum, Cooldog's the most likely to actually be town.

Max saying this still doesn't make him town to me, though.

This isn't normal, this is Theme, and a Varsoon Theme no less.

Yeah, and? I still play a ton of games ESPECIALLY themes (in fact I play or read almost every large theme when I can unless I have a reason to not do so), and I see things as a reviewer that nobody other than a reviewer knows, which means that when I say stuff about how a role is used, I'm not speaking for just Normals. I'm speaking for, generally, the usage on the site as a whole.

And Ascetic is, pure and simple, a quick easy substitute for a Godfather without flat-out lying to a cop, while also giving the scum a weapon against trackers, jailkeepers, roleblockers, rolecops, gunsmiths, and the like. Godfathers are falling out of common usage; ascetics are on the rise. They're still not encountered often enough that people will think, "Oh, my action failed, must be ascetic", but they're there much more strongly as a mafia role than a town one.

And the point about the vote thief similarly stands.

Ascetic might not be an explicitly-scum role, but it's a role far more beneficial to scum, which makes sense to use in the setup.
Vote thief might not be exclusively a scum role, but thanks to the nature of the role, its usage is almost-entirely by scum.

[mastin2]

All you've done is tunnel on frogger so excuse me for just ignoring you continued ranting while sonic lurks like a mofo.

I.
PROVIDED.
A FULL.
FUCKING.
READSLIST.
WITH QUITE SOME DETAIL IN IT.

Yeah

, I'm FOCUSING on Fro99er right now, but that's because I literally don't have a damn fucking choice because every other lynch candidate is by far more likely town than him, so DAMN STRAIGHT I'm raising as many points as I can on Frogger. My readslist might not be as detailed as I'd like, but it exists, and the only reason it's not more refined is because WE ARE NEAR DEADLINE AND I AM TRYING TO LYNCH SCUM.

So refining reads on players not viable to lynch is a waste of time and effort right now, as much as I'd love to try.

[mastin2]

I also hate Grapes and Bookittyslot slot lurking near deadline.

Bookitty's V/LA.
Grapes if not V/LA is due for a prod.

You want lurking, you've got to look at content provided, not at activity.

[mastin2]

lol
for a moment I thought you were going to try to claim using that as a reference or something. It seems to be the thing right now in this game.

^Such as, saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy, this.

[mastin2]

@Mastina, I'm thinking ascetic is used more like a miller here as in negative utility.

In spite of Varsoon specifically including a 1-shot gladiator.
And the ascetic.
Which're from that game.

And the massive scum utility of the ascetic.

He can ally with a townbeard and stop them from voting scum

Damn right he can! (Yes I know what you meant but you get my point.)

or ally with a scum and steal their vote.

Which, (1) scum won't allow since they have the power to choose their alliance... (2) ...Unless they use it as an excuse to coast because their vote no longer matters.

Frogger's role is as protown as his alignment.

So absolutely none then!

As for Hermit, I can't see a legit purpose for his role.

I see it as null. It has utility as town to increase the size of a town neighborhood just like the dead TunnelWarriors' double-ally did. It has the utility as scum to infiltrate a town neighborhood and interfere with town-town discussion. Leaving I realize has some side-effects, but I don't see it as town or scum.

[mastin2]

We have viable wagons on my scum suspects.

Fuck your scumspects, you're lynching town if you're not lynching Fro99er.

[mastin2]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

But you recognise it as irrelevant if Fro99er flips scum, right?

No?

Scum raise valid points on town all the time.

I feel Fro99er raised a valid point on why Replace-in is town.

Frogger flipping scum doesn't invalidate the point just because he was scum, because I'm myself adopting the point as if it were my own. I easily could have said that same thing about Replace-in. So the point holds, regardless of Frogger's alignment. Replace-in is town.

[mastin2]

Beer (

LYNCH

):

Replace in, NicCage, Fluminator, Marquis, vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Skybird, Sonic X, Bins, Grapes

fro99er (4):

Beer, Trench Warfare, Ricastle, Cheetory6

Replace in (3):

TunnelWarriors, MaxwellPuckett, CooLDoG

Replace in (8):

farside22, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka, St Constantine the Hermit, CooLDoG, Skybird, MaxwellPuckett, Ricastle

Fro99er (3):

grapes, Sonic X, NicCage

CooLDoG (3):

Reasonably Rational, Trench Warfare, Replace in

Just saying.

I hate you all.

[mastin2]

Mastina can we partner?

Sure thing!

[mastin2]

Still would like to say that Fro99er's point was a shitty one.

[mastin2]

That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

This is an absolute shit point too.

Replace-in voted Constantine out of survivalism: Replace-in was the largest wagon, and Constantine the second-largest.

When Replace-in bothered to look at the wagon on Constantine, Replace-in made the analysis that it was a bad wagon, and

in spite of it basically ensuring Replace-in as the lynch

, said that anyway, and hopped off.

After Fro99er made that post, Replace-in gained a number of votes, at least one or two, off of that point alone. When it is the absolute largest piece of shit of a point ever. And of those who jumped on, I think there might have been one

who previously acknowledged Replace-in's survivalism-vote as being null

. (Checking in a sec to confirm.)

[mastin2]

Nevermind. The only person to comment on it being null and then express suspicion later was Cerb.

[mastin2]

It is, quite simply, identical to the Beer lynch, in that Replace-in is basically ensuring that Replace-in dies, and while there isn't much helpful stuff, what little is there is insanely town in nature.

[mastin2]

I know you're expecting me to reveal why I'm conftown now, but hold please.

In the meantime,

Hey mastin, any reads beyond frogger before the night sets in?

My last readslist was kinda sorta still accurate, but since then, needs updating:

Last night, I submitted to the mod a tentative scumteam of: Frogger, obviously. MaxwellPucket, my only true scumread aside from Frogger.
One of {grapes, vezokpiraka}, but not the other. (51-49 vezok-grapes.)
And 1-2 scum in {farside22, Skybird, Fuzzylogic}, depending on scumteam size (four or five total).

I think NicCage is town, too.
I did acknowledge the potential for TW to be scum, but dismissed it. It could use revisiting, but if so, today's not the day I'd want to do it.

So basically,
Reasonably Rational
Sonic X
Ricastle
St Constantine the Hermit/Bins

Trench Warfare
NicCage

CooLDoG

farside22
Thefuzzylogic99
grapes
vezokpiraka

MaxwellPuckett
fro99er/Ra9in9 Bull

^Something like that is where I'm at.

Also, Fro99er's scum, etc.
(Btw, the reason Skybird's dead in case anyone's wondering: that role is effectively a cop. I can't see the scum killing Skybird off of reads--though I do owe Skybird's reads a look just in case--but I CAN see them killing Skybird if they have a rolecop result on Sky.)

[mastin2]

Hmm. I wouldn't be too concerned about mastin2 whole not confirmed yet thing she's posted. It could easily be something she has to trigger.

All to be revealed, but if you look at my 'crumbs in my iso, it's really, really,

really

obvious.

[mastin2]

Mastina's not conftown.

What were you expecting, a public reveal of my role PM? A direct message from the mod saying,

Mastin2 is confirmed to be a Beach City Resident

on daystart?

No, I said I was conftown for different reasons, reasons which will be clear at a slightly later time. But sometime this day phase, short of you being morons and quicklynching.

[mastin2]

So what, scum have an alliance blocker or something?

(Or one/both are scum. Would be hilarious if scum can't ally with scum.)

[mastin2]

fro99er (5):

Sonic X, NicCage, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka, grapes

This is a good wagon. (Eh, the composition's not the best, but after yesterday, scum would be pretty stupid not to bus.)

Mastin2 (2):

Trench Warfare, CooLDoG

This is a derpwagon.

Also, I'll say, the reason I said I'd be conftown isn't because of a trigger ability, that is, an ability that I PM to the mod. The reason I said I'd be conftown is an ability that triggered at daystart, but which is not public. Which is why I said to hold for a bit. You'll get your reveal.

[mastin2]

I can see scum claiming conftown and than claiming that they were not confirm bc there was no trigger.

It's complicated, but basically: my role has a built-in ability that auto-triggered on D3's start. This is why I said that I'd be conftown today.

However, it is not a public ability that would reveal me as town. It's a private ability. This does not negate the statement I made, though. Just because it's not public doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'll be revealing it soon enough. Just not at this very moment, when I'm catching up.

[mastin2]

All the free townreads day 1 and Day 2.

Titus, fuck off. You seriously, seriously, know NOTHING about my personality, WHATSOEVER, if you make the assumption that I would EVER in my life call myself conftown on a specific date, only to lie about it. Now,

granted

, sometimes, SMITE happens and what should be conftown ends up not being conftown, but that's a TOWN game where I had good reason to do what I did and just so HAPPENED to have things end up not working as they should have. Or you could say Sabotage happened. (Where I not only had both a friendly neighbor ability, BUT ALSO a fruit vend ability, and BOTH got negated by the scum.) Never as scum.

There's a reason for that. Fuck escaping two lynches. I'm FUCKING MASTINA. I can do that withOUT a damn roleclaim.

And you fucking know I can

. As scum, my goal is to live as long as possible, and giving myself a SET EXPIRATION DATE is the polar opposite of that. (Which, btw, I remind you, you saw...in Signs and Void. And referenced in that game was a prior game, with Cheetory in it, modded by The Critics I believe, forget the name of it, but I was basically Cheetory/Marquis's role this game, a one-way lover with a reflexive self-watch if I didn't use my track.)

Doing jackshit d1 and d2 (pushing Frogger when it cannot happen doesn't count).

...Is a fucking REAL LIFE TELL, not an alignment tell, because yes my life happens.

fro99er (6):

Sonic X, NicCage, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka, grapes, farside22

I repeat, good wagon. (Even if not so good names on there.)

[mastin2]

Mastina has a lie she told for towncred.

Which, mind you...I never do as scum.

ffery POINTED THIS OUT TO PEOPLE IN SIGNS AND VOID. Like,

mastin2 - Nacho has seen this stubborn read-pushing but relatively low engagement style from mastin-town a couple times in recent memory. he's never seen it from mastin-scum. This style of play alienates her from player lists (unless there's a huge contingent of players who know her fairly well) and makes her an easier lynch target.

he agrees with me that the incessant crumbing is not something he's seen from her as scum.

The mindset behind her "walking deadwoman" posting which, as Regfan has pointed out, only makes it more difficult for her to explain being alive at endgame. In this game, scum-mastin would be aiming to be alive at endgame. Some of her stranger reads, e.g., Cheetory-scum, singer-scum, DV (nacho disagreed with DV-scum once but not so strongly anymore) are scumreads that won't be getting lynched anytime soon - not easy to push if scum, and in total alienate her from the rest of the playerlist to some extent. She would be pushing easy mislynches if scum townread. her mindset is quite simply not a scum mindset.

Ok so Mastin-softclaims.
I didn't pay attention to known mastin-alts when I did this lengthy multi-year meta dive, but I recently once again went through a ton of her threads looking at how she gambits/crumbs as town vs as scum, to re-confirm something I've depended on in reading her. What I found was this: NOT ONE SINGLE GAME where Mastin crumbs a PR as scum. And pretty close to ZERO games where mastin-town DIDN'T crumb.
Admittedly I could have missed one. But srsly - she crumbs incessantly as town. Not as scum.

(Tangent: I have softclaimed my ACTUAL SCUM ROLE as scum before, and ffery DID miss a 2012 game, modded by Oversoul, though that was not really a game where I 'crumbed so much as I got lucky.)

180+ games to my name.
More than basically any. other. fucking. player. On the damn site.
Strewn across nearly seven fucking years.
Of those. Let's do a conservative estimate and say I was scum in only 40 or so of them. (That's fairly fucking conservative, too!)

One game.
ONE damn game.
As scum did I fakeclaim.
Once in my entire fucking career as a scum player.
Have I made a fakeclaim.
(...Okay. Twice. I had blocked out Mafia on Werewolf Island. *shudder* But, multiscum game, and I realclaimed later, so, etc.)

Every damn game other than that.
EVERY. damn. game.
Either my role was real, and/or I was town.

And you. damn. well. KNOW. it.

[mastin2]

If you want a Fro99er lynch, tell us why, because I know there's material for it since there's been Fro99er wagons all game.

I

get

that you're scum, but I'm still going to

MURDER

you.

[mastin2]

Actually, fuck it.

Titus is scum.
She can be dense as town.

But on a

subject she already has knowledge on

, she would not be this stubborn, this insistent, and this obtuse.
Yes, as town she's stubborn and obtuse. But the difference is that there's a consistency behind it.

Also, TSO's inactive which while not necessarily a scumtell, does make the slot look worse, soyeah.

[mastin2]

@mastin: I'm town and farside is town. Fro99er and titus are scum. Remake your reads based on this.

Well that'd make me think one or both (if five scum) of Fuzzy/grapes were scum, to fill the gaps: Titus (I was mistaken about the townread there, which I may or may not explain why), Fro99er, and Maxwell = 3 scum, and Fuzzy/grapes makes the fourth/fifth (or fifth/fourth).

I can definitely buy that.

[mastin2]

Really....I am conftown , I am conftown ... oh wait I am conftown but nobody can see it but a certain person.

There is a form of being conftown like this.

Two, actually.

I said I was conftown because of one of them.

Saying that it has to be revealed in order to exist is incredibly narrow-minded.

It's not that I can't reveal it. I WILL be revealing it. And it will be today. It's that there's something I'm discussing about the finer points of it.

And believe me. When you see it. This won't be a lame-ass SMITE reveal.

You never gave a satisfactory reason why Hermit is so high on your town list.

Yes I did: their posting has been ridiculously,

ridiculously

town,

and

the wagon on them sucked.

[mastin2]

fro99er (5):

Sonic X, NicCage, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka, grapes

Mastin2 (2):

Trench Warfare, CooLDoG

fro99er (5):

Sonic X, NicCage, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka, grapes

Mastin2 (5):

Trench Warfare, CooLDoG, Thefuzzylogic99, farside22, Ricastle

[mastin2]

Mastin actually has a surprisingly rational reason to have claimed what she did at the start of the game. We are aware of that reason and I'm waiting for Cerberus before we decide how to proceed. Putting votes on her isn't going to speed up the way she gets confirmed, because it isn't completely in her hands.

Honestly, I wish you hadn't revealed this since I was hoping to keep your involvement anonymous, but yes, I can confirm; my claims to being conftown are tied to Reasonably Rational. (There's a reason RR tops my townlist.)

[mastin2]

Anyone can play against strategic meta.

Can

, yes.

Would

, FUCK no. You know how hilariously bad an idea it is to fakeclaim as scum?

Like. I got shit thrown at me in SMITE for my actions there. I got shit thrown at me in Sabotage in spite of me telling the truth! I got shit thrown at me in Signs and Void for it as well. Yet in each of those games, I had an ability that at least in theory backed me up.

What happens if I get shit thrown at me and I

don't

have the ability to back it up, hmm? I get off without a modicum of suspicion? Fuck no I wouldn't; it'd be suicide because no matter how much a sweettalker I may be, I'm not THAT charismatic. It's fucking mafia 101.

And here, RR has half-confirmed that, yes, I do have what I claim I have, soooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

I have an iron-clad mastin scumtell which I've never revealed to anyone. In this particular game, it is guaranteed to work. It hasn't activated yet, but that's part of the fun.

You know, you're right about me being town, but lack of a scumtell should

never

work. Does make me curious what said scumtell is, though, 'cause I

laugh

at the notion of being caught as scum on tells.

[mastin2]

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er.

Literally half my iso is a case against Frogger.

No, quite seriously, iso me. Search for Frogger. Then search for Fro99er because I alternate in spelling. Finish off with Raging, and then Ra9in9 to fill in the gaps. I can quote that if you want, but there's a reason I said I'd murder Maxwell after he asked this same question.

Sonic didn't even get close to all of the points against Frogger; he just got some of the more recent ones.

[mastin2]

How can I townread TSO and scumread titus so hard????? This doesn't make sense.

Honestly, especially with the non-Titus head being inactive, it does to me, and sadly, would be an indication that Titus is town. (Yes, Titus, sadly that you're town.)

[mastin2]

I just rolecopped them and Varsoon sent over what Mastina does.

Rolecop. Yes. When I can't see how Skybird would be killed without a rolecop result on them.

I don't doubt that the role is real, though, so I suppose no point in hiding that I do get my vote in certain specific circumstances. Which I will not reveal. The other bit, though, most definitely should stay hidden.

[mastin2]

I'm voteless the whole. freakin'. time.

I do get my vote in certain specific circumstances

.

Hmmm

Yes, I lied. Sort-of. It was part of a gambit. Which I could reveal but would prefer not to.

When will people learn that when I say I'm conftown, I'm saying, "TRUST ME,

I HAVE A PLAN

!"? (Granted, said plans don't necessarily work out, but that I have them should mean something.)

[mastin2]

Mastina, if you persist on this bullshit that you're conftown, I will claim your ability as much as I can without being really fucking anti-town.

Titus. You're fighting a losing battle.

Not only against me.
Not only against the rest of the town.
Not only against RR.
But also against

your own damn hydra partner

.

If YOU persist in your anti-town behavior, then you can pretty much count the town out of ever following your lead again. And maybe even lynching you. (Hey, remember...what game was it where you went crazy and got vigged...Street Racers? That game? Yeah. You're doing it again.)

Drop. it.

Just to simplify this btw, these are the slots I could potentially be convinced to vote for today.
MaxwellPuckett
vezokpiraka
CooLDoG
grapes
farside22
Thefuzzylogic99
fro99er -Contingent upon a fucking case that isn't based on bullshit.

There ya go. Helping with it.

As for the Frogger case?
You want it, you can have it.
This will take some time, time which I don't have

right now

. But I'll get you your Frogger case and one-up it! With why I'm reading everyone as I am. (Damn, it's been literally YEARS since I've done that.) Basically, I've got less than 20 minutes of free time, and I'm spending it catching up. After that free time's gone, I have to leave. But when I get back, you can bet yer ass that after I re-catch-up (because duh, you guys talk a lot), I'll be starting it.

and while you're at it explain why vezok and i both can't be town - this point im more interested to hear for obvious reasons

Basically? Combo of POE and wagon analysis. You'll get more details after I return.

[mastin2]

are people finally opening their eyes to RR

RR is 100% town.

I guess in fairness most all the wagons we've had so far besides frogger

have

been pretty shitty but really now

GEE, I WONDER WHOSE FAULT THAT IS.
NOT LIKE THERE WAS A PLAYER TRYING TO STOP A MISLYNCH YESTERDAY OR ANYTHING.
/bitter.

Before I waste my time explaining why frogger is scum, which is not particularly difficult, you should explain why mastin is scum. It will be a rewarding endeavour.

Actually, please do 'waste' your time explaining why Fro99er is scum. Would be quite productive for everyone here. The more the merrier, and while I'm going to do my best to deliver a damn-solid case, alternative words/perspectives could never hurt.

Though you're quite right about the other bit, too.

[mastin2]

Mastina is scum because she is lying.

Show me a scumgame of mine where I lied.

Can you?

"You could be manipulating your meta, therefore it's invalid." is not a valid answer. That's an answer that would bump the lying down to null, not to scum.

The nature of the lie, WHICH YOU APPARENTLY KNOW, is something that is

painfully

town coming from of all fucking people ME. And TSO knows it, too.

So dead serious.

Show me a scumgame where I lie.
Show me a towngame where I'm a PR and I

don't

gambit for that matter because far more often than not there is an exaggeration or misdirection in my claims.
Dare. you.

[mastin2]

Also,

@rr: my issue with mastin is all she has done for 2 games days is hold onto the I will be confirmed town day 3 with prod dodging.

Fuck you, farside.

NOT ONLY was my doing nothing a FACTOR OF REAL FUCKING LIFE (thus, NULL AND NOT AN INDICATOR OF MY ALIGNMENT), but I spent ALMOST ALL OF DAY FUCKING TWO POSTING.

No, seriously. I was inactive for, what? A few days? At most. The rest of day two? POSTING ON WHAT I WAS SEEING. Alright, let's be extra-generous and call my posts about "blah, blah, nothing's changed" not relevant commentary even though, frankly, that was a perfectly accurate statement. STILL leaves me with HALF THE DAMN DAY PHASE. Where I was giving a readslist. Giving scumreads. Townreads. And commentary on posts as they were coming up. And, yes. Raising fucking hell about Frogger, and defending the SHIT out of Replace-in and Constantine.

So legitimately, fuck you.

/out of time.

Take it down a notch, yo.
<3

[mastin2]

Also I sent Mastin a slice of pizza yesterday( ie fruit vender). Mastin can confirm that

While true (I can confirm I got it), Fuzzy's still scum.
Especially since Fuzzy went from, "If Mastina's not conftown, I'm voting her" to suddenly sending pizza to me over the course of the night.

But priorities. Fuzzy's

tomorrow

's lynch. Today's should be Maxwell.

[mastin2]

VOTE: xtoxm
say things

Were you paying attention to yesterday? Xtoxm said plenty.

Btw, my readslist goes something like:
Reasonably Rational
Sonic X
NicCage
grapes
farside22 (admittedly mainly off of her being Frogger's target for the block)
Cooldog
Trench Warfare (mainly this low purely because of how WRONG Titus has been; hard-defending scum and lynching town comes to mind)
vezok
Fuzzy
Maxwell

In obvious order. I went into detail about each of these quite a lot, and will bring them up in-thread as necessary. But we can start with Maxwell, who is the likely reason Skybird died (Maxwell was in an alliance and Skybird's power is sometimes akin to a cop in strength), has defended scum, pushed town, and generally been taking stereotypical scum stances hidden only by the thin veil of a seemingly-sincere tone.

[mastin2]

^Oops. Constantine's missing from there. He's roughly below farside but above Cooldog.

[mastin2]

(Mind you, my reads aren't RR's reads, but Fuzzy's scum and Maxwell's scum.)

[mastin2]

You don't have xtoxm on the list, where does he stand?

Not sure, pretty high though. Higher than you.

@Mastina,
I'm really inclined to think Maxwell's town. Can you elaborate more?

Sure.
Look at Skybird's iso. Try to identify so much as a single reason why Skybird would be nightkilled.
I found none in Skybird's reads. So unless the scum were shooting a random player, they had to have inside info on Skybird.
You're a rolecop so if you're town, you have to assume scum don't have one. So they couldn't have rolecopped Skybird. (Skybird's role, I repeat, can be roughly akin to a full cop in power, depending on the mod.)
Yet Skybird died. It is not at all unreasonable for the people allying to claim to their ally: Sonic claimed to me, I partially claimed to Sonic, RR I presume partially-claimed to you and I know you partially claimed to RR, NicCage presumably at least partially claimed to Ricastle to earn that "NicCage is town" comment (NicCage can confirm), the list goes on. So why not Skybird to Maxwell? It is a very, very logical assumption.

And then, Skybird died because of it.

That on roles alone.
I realize you're going to hate on the roles, but I have more, off of play. It's just that I've got supper to eat and family over that I'm missing out to type up my reply to you soyeah, gonna eat first and then get back to it when I can.

#priorities.

I still don't like you.

In spite of literally half my fucking iso being devoted to calling Fro99er scum and Replace-in a mislynch.

I will know Xtoxm's role when Varsoon is back from moving in.

Titus.

You. are. an.

idiot

.

[mastin2]

Anyone care to align with me tonight? Or talk? I want someone to chat with, I'm quickly learning that I make better decisions when it isn't just my own mind.

^Like, I'd avoid allying with him like the plague considering this.

Titus, why are you so ready to vote mastin? We've yet to hear an explanation. But if that explanation involves any kind of admittance that she wasn't being truthful, that's my vote. But I don't think that's gonna happen. It just seems way too unlikely to me.

This is trying for both sides: leaving open the option of hopping onto my wagon should the opportunity arise, yet also trying for the towncred of white knighting me. (Which continues after I post, when I very much did not need the help.)

PEDITx2: If you want a Fro99er lynch, tell us why, because I know there's material for it since there's been Fro99er wagons all game. Just don't make that material unproven assumptions that you're for some reason really sure about

In spite of Maxwell's insistence, this is very bad no matter how you look at it. He's acknowledging that there's been a shitload of reasons why Fro99er's been suspected, yet is boiling it down to that one.

We know fusions are separate from alliances. I know that, too. But why does that make you assume that every gem has both an alliance ability and a fusion ability? Those two lines of thinking don't follow, you've just based that on the fact that Sapphire had two separate abilities for fusions and alliances. There are ten gem characters that could possibly be in this setup. We've seen one.

This is further Fro99er defense, too.

Replace In, though, I'm definitely still confident about.
VOTE: Replace In

The bad Replace-in vote when I was trying to get support on Frogger.

You might think, "But how does that matter?" Well,

Shit, sorry, I thought I was the seventh vote. Thanks for noticing that, fro99er.

The town action when realizing the wagon they're on is larger than they thought/would prefer

is to unvote

.

I don't think survivalism is a town trait, but town can be survivalists just the same. The fact that going after the other wagon is what they both decided to do is what I noticed. Instead of Frogger, sonic, or NicCage, they each jumped on each other, which makes me unsure about both being scum.

Then there's this. This was another red flag that should have told him to stay away from the Replace-in wagon, yet he joined it anyway.

Mastin's mod argument against Fro99er isn't that great. The only part of their argument that really holds water is the ascetic claim thing.

Defending Frogger...

I guess I've been using a different definition of lynchbait. I was using it as 'a player who is incredibly easy to lynch, for one reason or another'. I was saying that fuzzy's play has been better today, so he's less likely to be lynched than he was D1.
So no, I don't want anyone to compromise on fuzzy, quite the opposite.

...And fuzzy, too.

Constantine, NicCage, Sonic X, Fro99er, Replace In, and Fuzzy. Those are all the 'wagons' we have right now. Can everyone give their opinions on these 6?
Replace In and Constantine are great lynches for today. I wouldn't fight a Sonic X lynch, and honestly I just.. don't really care about NicCage? Everything about them is lukewarm, from their own opinions to the cases against them. Honestly when I think about NiCage I just think of the movie Con Air, and not of their play. NicCage, vote somebody, maybe?
Fuzzy and Fro99er are town.

Back here, look at how he gives details on each of the wagons...except Frogger and Fuzzy, which are just generically called town.

I'm also totally behind a Replace In lynch. If that one ends up having more traction that Constantine, I'll move.

Back here, Maxwell was basically willing to lynch both Constantine AND Replace-in.

Fuzzy, what do you think about everyone's accusations/complaints against you, saying that you're just looking at the surface of events as they happen, and not thinking too deeply about, well, anything. Does it make you want to change your play? Are you alright with how you've been playing? I mean, you've already said a lynch against you was justified.

This reads very heavily as coaching a scumbuddy.

To add, Replace In had really done nothing to make me reconsider, until they said their Lion claim cleared Fro99er. This seems kind of a ridiculous strategy as scum trying to clear scum, that falls apart as soon as one of them is lynched, so I really doubt they're both scum. Replace In is higher on the lynch-branch than Fro99er, anyways, whose play has picked up since leaving the hydra. Meanwhile, Replace In's has kind of stagnated.

This should have told him Replace-in was town, too. (In fact, I pointed this out in-thread and was promptly ignored.)

In fact, if you go through Maxwell's iso...a lot of his reads are sheepish. NicCage as nullscum, mirroring farside. Sonic as a not-so-great read when being pressured by others. Constantine as a scumread when there was a wagon there.

I think everyone should look at Bins again, but if that isn't going anywhere than Ra9in9 Bull/radmann/Reasonably Rational is a better lynchpool for me. Farside is saying that fuzzy's meta says scum, but I dislike voting on meta alone, especially from word of mouth. I think fuzzy is earnest town.

Then there's this, where Maxwell directs attention everywhere except where it needs to go. Read the full post and the excerpts for the players it's on. It's basically pushing attention everywhere except for Raging Bull and fuzzy.

And so on and so forth.

[mastin2]

RR wants me to sort Xtomx instead. Why do you think that is?

You sorting Xtoxm is the reason I'm calling you an idiot.

Wow, you've just totally jumped down a few pegs Xtoxm.

No, I approve of that. It's almost-identical to mine, with a few minor tweaks.

Kinda surprised I wasn't killed but that indicates a scumteam that either a) doesn't respect VCA or b) thinks they can mislynch me.

Have you considered the fact that the reason you're still alive is that YOU'RE HARD-DEFENDING SCUM?!?

You have me as probably town but you have Hermit way higher than me despite the shit he's pulled.

Yeah, and? So do I.

What makes you think that me sending you a pizza is more likely I would do as scum instead as scum.

Because I cannot think of a reason why a town-you would send pizza to me, given your read on me AND my read on you.

In contrast, sending pizza to me as scum makes perfect sense as a way to try and lessen the pressure on me.

Also what makes you think that this is scum buddying as oppose to whiteknighting.

Well in part because of how threeway it is. This is all from memory, but I have in my mind both of you defending Frogger as if scumbuddies, and Fro99er for you, and definitely you two for each other.

[mastin2]

(If it makes you feel better, I direct hostility elsewhere as well, Titus. I really shouldn't be complaining since you

are

voting Maxwell, but I'm still extremely bitter since Frogger should have been lynched Day Two when I first began pushing him.)

[mastin2]

@mastin: Did you specifically got pizza? Or you just know that someone visited you?

It was, specifically, pizza. Delivered to me during N3.

I put absolutely zero stock in that being town.

[mastin2]

That readslist from Maxwell is so full of shit I'm not sure how you could townread it.

[mastin2]

Maxwell's stance on Fuzzy is classic scum-scum.

Exactly.
(I'd say including vezok too, but I'm not gonna push that since it'll get me shouted at.)

[mastin2]

I'm surprised you care about anyone else's oppinion

I have selfish motivations.

If I pushed vezok too then people would be less inclined to listen to me on Maxwell.

One step at a time, on the other hand, is much easier. Maxwell and Fuzzy are where I'm pushing, emphasis Maxwell.

[mastin2]

She gets an alliance w Steven D3.

Not an alliance. Something much, much stronger.

How about a mass flavor claim now guys?

Yeahno. Not happening.

3) I'm not at L-1. No one has declared intent to hammer.

You were at L-1 though and frankly the only reason you got that extra vote off was to prevent the risk of the day ending. L-2 is the new L-1.

I don't understand why Max is losing votes.

Simple, really: because I haven't been around.

I'm basically carrying the Maxwell wagon through sheer force of my voice alone, charisma and all.

Why is this lynch 1000x easier than frogger?

Because it's (1) made up entirely of conftown (no, seriously, it is!), (2) who the majority of gained credibility by also pushing Fro99er, (3) and have made a good case against him.

I'd like to point out, though, that in spite of being "easier", it still hasn't actually

happened

yet. And not because we're taking our time; it's because there's resistance and counter-wagon attempts. It's just that scum counterwagons on town aren't going to work since, again, this is an L-2 wagon made up of people who're conftown.

[mastin2]

I don't like Mastina.

In spite of the fact that I drove the Fro99er lynch

ridiculously

hard (I've posted a ton since Frogger's been lynched and yet I STILL think my Frogger push makes up at least half my iso) and basically begged you not to mislynch Replace-in.

Personally, I feel it's slow because certain people aren't sure whether to lynch Fuzzy or Max. They're BOTH scum, my dears.

Truth.

I mean, I'd

prefer

a Maxwell lynch, but I'm not exactly picky. Dead scum is dead scum.

I think max is at l1.

Nope, either L-2 or L-3.

[mastin2]

I'd really like a response from trench about the Rolecop claim.

My answer if Titus were playing solo: (Psst, that probably says something.)
My answer if TSO were playing solo: Eh, we've got plenty of similar/overlapping roles claimed already, and they can't

all

have one be town and the other scum. (Especially not when there are three instead of two; that'd mean an infinitely more likely probability of at least two town.)

Overall answer: though the answer interests me, I think that overall TW is more likely to be town than not given everything out there.

[mastin2]

Either scum are in the worst position imaginable and are just all rolling over, they're probably bussing like crazy....or fuzzy is the counter wagon to max? Those are all still possibilities here.

Bussing, not so much--if you look at the pattern here, it's pretty dang apparent that the scum are hardcore defending one another this game, at least for the most part. (There's a couple of players or so who could be scum that'd break the pattern, but I just so happen to not think they are.)

The first and the third, though, most definitely are, in spite of their conflicting nature. I think it's one of the two: both Maxwell and Fuzzy are scum, or Maxwell is scum and Fuzzy's the counterwagon to him. I just so happen to scumread Fuzzy, so the first seems the most likely, but the third is possible, which is mind you the reason I prefer the Maxwell wagon to the Fuzzy one.

Maybe the game really is THAT easy and pretty much solved. I dunno. Hope it is.

Believe me, I'd be ecstatic if the scumteam really was my pet theory. But we probably have at least one lurking in the shadows, alas.

[mastin2]

MaxwellPuckett (4):

grapes, Xtoxm, Sonic X, NicCage (-farside; -TW)

thefuzzylogic99 (3):

St Constantine the Hermit, grapes, Trench Warfare

CooLDoG (2):

MaxwellPuckett, farside22

mastin2 (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

Not Voting (4):

vezokpiraka, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Mastin2

Max is at L-3. Not L-2.

I'm also wondering why vezok hasn't voted all day.

[mastin2]

Okay, correction.

Yeah sure. And I'm the whole beach city.

vite fuzzy

unvote

I don't like the crumbs. They are way too many of them.

So vezok did vote today...for a grand total of 45 minutes.

[mastin2]

Frogger was fucking pimped out, and I don't think all scum will be like that, so it makes it less likely that he was mass bussed.

Btw, this also explains why the Frogger lynch was so much harder: he was likely their strongest role. (I'm going back for tallying purposes; you'll see what I mean in a bit.)

Speaking of which, I should remind you some of the players who were pushing Fro99er consistently throughout the game. (Later, though. Busy now.)

[mastin2]

Maxwell voters: 6(+1) (grapes, NicCage, Trench Warfare, Xtoxm, farside22, Sonic X (+mastin2))
Fuzzy voters: 5(+3)(+1) (Sonic X, Vezokpiraka(x2), Trench Warfare, Constantine, grapes (+RR, mastin2, Xtoxm))
Xtoxm voters: 2(+4) (Trench Warfare, grapes (+Fuzzy, NicCage, MaxwellPuckett, farside22))
Cooldog voters: 3(+1) (NicCage, farside22, MaxwellPuckett (+Xtoxm))
Constantine Voters: 0(+2) ((+grapes, MaxwellPuckett))
Vezokpiraka voters: 0(+2) (mastin2, Trench Warfare)

System should be intuitive enough. The first number is the number of people who voted, and in what order.
The second is the people who have shown support for the lynch yet haven't voted, in approximate order.

So 6(+1) = 6 voters, with one extra expressing support. (The extra +1 is vezok's double-vote.)

[mastin2]

I wonder why Mastina's so scared she has to attack me.

If you think I ever know fear in a game of mafia you know absolutely

NOTHING

about me.

Period.

I never fear anything as scum, ever. Easily verifiable with a search of my MD material given that I advocate as scum

not being afraid

.
I fear next to nothing as town. My main fears involve getting reads wrong at critical times and/or on critical players, as defined by my mind. (Hint: you're not one of them, though your slot is, because I'm talking names like Nacho, zMuff, AP, and yes, TSO. Not you.) Also easily verifiable, with a simple search of MD. (In particular, I made a post about paranoia which is basically explaining this concept.)

That post was poking fun at you. The old joke, "Titus is scum, but her hydra partner is town." Which you very much should have known. It was nothing more. (Okay, maybe it was a

slight

jab, but...

P.S. TSO was right and I overruled him. I feel bad about that.

...No more a jab than your own acknowledgement of the fact.)

The fact is, you don't Mastina.

Well, I actually very well might.

You're fishing and trying to discredit the counter wagon to Maxwell.

A wagon that I'm supporting. And have been supporting. Yeah. Right.

Just a few posts ago, you're all Fuzzy and Max are both scum and everyone voting is conftown.

Everyone voting Maxwell. Votes on Fuzzy aren't ALL conftown, just MOST. (Constantine's a mere townread.)

[mastin2]

Fuzzy voters: 9 (Sonic X, Vezokpiraka(x2), Trench Warfare, Constantine, grapes +RR, mastin2, Xtoxm)
Maxwell voters: 7 (grapes, NicCage, Trench Warfare, Xtoxm, farside22, Sonic X +mastin2)
Xtoxm voters: 6 (Trench Warfare, grapes +Fuzzy, NicCage, MaxwellPuckett, farside22)
Cooldog voters: 4 (NicCage, farside22, MaxwellPuckett +Xtoxm)
Constantine Voters: (2) (grapes, MaxwellPuckett)
Vezokpiraka voters: (2) (mastin2, Trench Warfare)

Btw, looking at it this way: The Constantine interest doesn't look so great, the Vezok interest looks good, the Cooldog voters look okay but not great, the Xtoxm voters are not very good at all, the Maxwell wagon is made of win, and the Fuzzy wagon is fairly good.

I realize this is dealing with hypothetical votes, rather than materialistic votes, but I find the statistics interesting all the same. (Technically there's some on Sonic X and me as well, but I mainly focused the hypotheticals on 'wagons of interest'--that is, wagons that looked like they had the potential to actually gain support, which I ruled Sonic X and myself to not be, given the main pushers.)

[mastin2]

Bluntly, you obviously aren't aware of what I've said in the speakeasy, Titus.
I am not neurologically normal.

I literally don't feel some emotions

.

Fear among them.
I haven't felt fear of anything.
Anything.
For ages--even when I wanted to.
Like when I was in a car crash that very easily could have claimed my life. I should have felt fear. I should have been terrified. I felt nothing--absolutely nothing. The closest thing I have to fears are "adult" fears, such as that I might take my own life. That thought, sure, yeah, terrifies me, which is why I started my speakeasy thread in the first place.

Yes, fear is a basic human emotion.
Yes, I don't feel it.
Yes I know that means I'm calling myself not human but guess what, that's how I feel.

So yes. I am separate from the emotion.

[mastin2]

(Basically, it's closer to say that my emotion of fear is in not having fear: the thought of me not fearing death is terrifying. Just like the realization I'm not sad is mortifying when a relative or close associate has died.

So when it comes to games, I literally have none.
I get adrenaline rushes, sure, yeah, but those are born out of

excitement

. Not fear. Thrill of the hunt.)

[mastin2]

I don't buy you not having fear and worry in terms of the game.

Then you really haven't been paying attention.

Bluntly, I don't care that much about my games anymore. I've been jaded and embittered to the world such that with my hundreds of games of experience, I live in the moment. I'll play to win because you try to win games, but for the most part, I'm still playing for fun and fun alone. And, frankly? Fear is counterproductive to fun.

Fear is a basic part of any logical calculus.

Not for me. Not in games, anyway. I might have fear when it comes to my life, I'll admit: "What if my family found me out?" being the main one. But that traces back to the same fear of not having fear, because it's related to the same thing: self-destruction.

What if it goes wrong?

Another thing I've made explicit is my attitude towards this. "If it happens, it happens. Oh, well." That's literally it. I had a fear of the darkness when I was young. That thought made it go away, and now I don't have that fear anymore. I had a fear of heights at a time. That fear went away after that thought. My mind has an amazing way of thinking about an action, and then after having thought about it...just numbing it out. I have an overreactive (yes, I say overreactive, because it reacts to literally any stimuli) imagination, so I literally spend all day thinking about things. Games included. And my mind goes to the best cases and the worst cases. And I numb it out. I dull the sensations. It's not something I do consciously. It just...naturally happens. Like, I'll be eating breakfast, my thoughts drift to some mafia game, I'll give it thought, and then when it comes time for that mafia game, the emotions such as fear have disappeared. Gone.

I literally have no fear. Not even of the irrational paranoia. Because I'm paranoid of everything. You could say...I fear nothing because I feared everything. And by having feared everything, in truth I feared nothing. That's the way my mind works. I don't like it--I hate it--but it's how it is.

So I mean it when I say I feel no fear of a player in a game. You know what happens when I'm scum and a player correctly calls me scum?

I get an adrenaline rush

. Because there's a thrill--there's an actual challenge present. (Another facet of my scumgame is that it's so dang good that frankly, I get BORED. I don't get to be scum often, yet when I do roll scum, I can steamroll a town effortlessly...so any semblance of resistance to my victory I enjoy the challenge of overcoming: the thrill of the hunt, the chase.) But that's not fear. That's excitement at having a worthy opponent to engage in battle.

Pretty much the only moments of happiness I feel in a game anymore are when I'm scum, when I'm town and I've caught scum, or when I'm town and having a daydream which is little more than a delusion of grandeur.

I do believe this is a chessmatch and you have to fear the very moves I would make.

Bluntly, if you're thinking in terms of chess, I'm laughing as I go steal all your poker chips. (Alternatively, if you're thinking in terms of poker, I laugh while I place you in checkmate.) The one defining characteristic of me is that I don't play the game that others play--as scum, I'm the one who's making the game. You think you enter a game of Crazy 8s, we're actually secretly playing a game of Mao. (And just as you begin to catch onto it being a game of Mao, I subtly shift the rules to be closer to Crazy 8s!) Even as town, I set my own path, I just make it very much public that I have chosen to do so rather than keeping it a secret.

I make moves in games, sure, yeah. But the only thing you can know about the moves I have made is that there is no way to know anything about the moves I have made. I, quite simply, hold no fear of counterattacks to my movements. I'm usually five steps ahead of my nearest opponent. The weapon I have above all other weapons is situational awareness, after all. I instinctively have a grasp of the game--I know what to do. I know what moves to make. So I never need to hold any concern.

That is me. That is how my mind works.

We both have to at least guess what the other is doing.

And that's where you're wrong. I don't need to know what you do. I don't even bother guessing. I either know, or I don't know. And if I don't know, then I adapt. I work around my lack of knowledge. I never really bother to guess. As town I'll sometimes try to understand if I think you're town, or try to anticipate if I think you're scum, but that's mainly for pragmatic reasons: when town, I try to work with you if I can, and if I think you're scum, I try to hinder your advancement. But in spite of that, I never really need to know. Especially not if I actually were scum, because why would I care what you're doing as scum?

Bluntly, I don't fear you. Even if I felt fear of a player. Like zMuf. Like AP. Even if I felt fear of a person like them. I wouldn't fear you. Respect you, yes, because sometimes you get things right. But fear, no. Never. Maybe get a high off of the engaging battle, because it'd be a thrill ride for me to cross words with a respectable foe. Yet that's, again, adrenaline pumping in out of anticipation and excitement--not fear.

Don't deny how you feel. Acknowledge it.

I am. Don't presume you know. When I say I don't feel those emotions...

I don't feel those emotions

. That is me, accepting how I feel, acknowledging that I don't have the basic human emotion that I am supposed to possess. (And, yes. That means that, literally every day, I end up calling myself things like a beast, or a monster. Because if humans are supposed to feel those things and I don't feel them...then yeah, I don't feel human.)

Anger, hatred, and loathing I feel plenty of, mainly directed at myself but progressively moving outwards towards the world as I grow increasingly bitter, cynical, and pessimistic. Rage, I suppress plenty of. (Reason I have outbursts of it during games.) But I feel remorse only for not feeling grief, and fear only of how "then I'll let it happen" I am thanks to no fear.

[mastin2]

There's a thing called bussing Sonic.

Right. Which I'm

totally

a fan of doing.
Especially spending half my current iso (well over half at the time) pursuing. Because that's brilliant scum play, there, hardcore bussing quite possibly the strongest scum PR on the team. Makes complete sense.

[mastin2]

Well I revised it this year.

It was decent when I wrote it, but still needed quite a bit of work to be better.

[mastin2]

Dang it, if year is that important, that means I have to stop slacking off and finish my revision work on all the articles. (They could all use some touching up. A lot of them have good advice, just low visibility in part thanks to poor writing on my part.)

[mastin2]

Frogger died n3, so how did you target him n3?

As if that wasn't a scumslip enough, targeting a player who has explicitly claimed ascetic is extraordinarily unlikely.

Butyeah.

Any doubt that Maxwell is scum should be removed by that.



So Titus:

I fucking told you so.
Right on Fro99er. Right on Maxwell.

[mastin2]

motion detector triggers if the target performs an action, or is the target of an action, so if you were targeted by something you wouldn't necessarily know you were targeted.

Oh god please don't remind me.

*ahem*

Motion Detectors are, as of right now, currently defined as the above states by Normal standards. However, this is a highly-contested debate and far from universal; the change was made only a few months ago and to very high resistance even inside the NRG. Motion Detectors were originally defined as an alternative title to "Weak Voyeur*" (the wiki has since been changed over the years, but take it from me, that IS how it used to be): the variant on Voyeur that sees an action has been done, but not what type nor by whom. (This is, incidentally, the version I advocated as standard.)

However

, there have also been people who for some reason used Motion Detector to mean "Weak Follower" (aka, Reporter**, which is what I advocated that role being called), and that version was advocated as well. With conflicts over which version to call Motion Detector, eventually, N decided to compromise and have the Motion Detector officially do

both

. (Leaving neither side happy.)

*Technically, it wasn't called a Weak Voyeur, though some games may have used that title. It was just called a Voyeur, but was noted as being weaker than the version of Voyeur we currently know as a Voyeur, but on the WIKI page, it was defined as being "weak version" and "strong version" for the same role (as in, the wiki page was divided into two halves: a "weak version" section describing the weaker variant of voyeur, and "strong version" describing the stronger variant of voyeur, roughly akin to a page containing "role variants" but with neither recognized as being the main one--one of the reasons voyeur became the strong version was because the weak version HAD an alternative title of Motion Detector), with a note on the weak version that an alternative title for the weak version was Motion Detector.

**One of the main reasons that I got overruled there is that there are at minimum three different versions of the role called Reporter. I don't really know or care about the other two, but one of them was in fact defined as, "Sees if a person has done an action, but not what type or on whom".

So there's no consensus on what Motion Detectors do.
/History lecture. (Admittedly a history lecture with a biased viewpoint, but one all the same. I've been around for quite a while; I know these things. What the wiki is now is different from what the wiki used to be.)

whether or not it was a slip is not actually relevant, the claim is non-redeeming either way

^Truth.

[mastin2]

Another useless role that didn't target sonic. Yeah clearly I believe it.

And yet, you haven't voted Maxwell.

[mastin2]

(It should be noted that, yes, we did debate the flavor behind the name Motion Detector, too. I said that motion detectors are akin to seeing something coming in. For instance, my house has motion detectors timed for the night, so that whenever a car comes home, lights come on allowing us to see. Advocates of the weak tracker/follower version insisted that motion detectors detect if someone is leaving their house. N more or less concluded that they do both, so we got left with a role that neither side particularly thought of as being very useful.)

[mastin2]

What would you suggest regarding fuzzy?

Bluntly, I have no interest in dealing with the topic of fuzzy one way or another. What happens, happens. He gets lynched, okay. He doesn't, fine for now. If you have thoughts, then you put them forward.

[mastin2]

Bizarrely, Maxwell and Fuzzy aren't crossvoting each other, which lends itself to scum-scum who just suck.

^This, too.

Constantine and Replace-in both cross-voted; neither Maxwell nor Fuzzy have.

[mastin2]

Mastina and Xtoxm would also resolve a lot to me, but I know that's not happening ATM.

Titus.
Bluntly.
If you seriously think I spent half my iso trying to lynch Frogger.

And then once that succeeded,

immediately went after Maxwell

.
Rousing the entire town behind my banner to lynch him. (Because yes that was MY FUCKING LYNCH, no denying it with bullshit like, "maybe you expected it to fail".)
Effectively double-bussing two extraordinarily powerful scum roles when you know my own power level is rather weak in comparison.

You can go fuck yourself.

shaddup grapes, vezok was as close to conftown as someone can be without being conftown the way I am. Like, seriously. His flip should come as no surprise to ANYONE.

Uh.
Actually.
Grapes, Sonic, and I spent quite a bit of time discussing why Vezok was very, very likely scum.

Btw.
Still think Cooldog's more likely town than not, but no longer care to defend him.
Fuzzy I still think is scum, but I don't care to attack him.
I have some interest in reviewing Constantine, but not sure about that, yet.

[mastin2]

Btw, happy scumday, Fuzzy.

Did you guys notice that Mastin2 pushed Maxwell but never voted him?

Did you notice that I claimed to be a fucking. voteless. townie?

@Mastina, You can bus twice for credit.

Throw away strong scum power roles...
...When I'm a basically worthless role myself...
...All for the sake of fucking towncredit...
Yeah, it's not like I

wrote an article

on why NOT TO DO THAT. (From painful personal experience, no less. #NEVERFORGET.) That was RECENTLY REVISED. (So not a relic I've forgotten about, an article that's actively in my fucking mind.)

Where do you stand now?

Still think Cooldog's more likely town than not, but no longer care to defend him.
Fuzzy I still think is scum, but I don't care to attack him.
I have some interest in reviewing Constantine, but not sure about that, yet.

I'd add

you

to that list, too.

[mastin2]

Mastina and Xtoxm rolecop as having the same exact abilities. No variation.

Wrong.

Xtoxm has no voting restriction.

@Farside, I was a big reason Maxwell got lynched. I thought both were scum after awhile and made sure Maxwell got lynched.

If this isn't TSO speaking, I'm fucking speedlynching you for this comment.

[mastin2]

(There's a temptation to do so anyway off of my ego alone, but eh. I nailed Frogger, I nailed Maxwell, but I don't really want to live in the past about those two reads so am not going to get overly caught up in how much of those lynches my push was responsible for. My preference would be to continue trying to nail scum.)

[mastin2]

I actually townread the request. He is not specifically asking to be copped, triggering Godfather fears, but he wants any action. That suggests to me a deeper motivation that it would be anti town to comment on. If there's a role such as "fruit vendor" targeting Sonic might not be a bad idea. No skin off our back if I am wrong.

In hindsight, this is pretty amusing. Probably doesn't mean anything, but I found it for an unrelated task when doing an iso and thought I might as well bring it up.

What I was looking for was this:

I think I know what is going on with Mastina, but revealing what is a lie and what is true would be anti-town. I will keep reading to see if that is right.
~Titus

Titus, you know my secret now. So what on EARTH were you thinking back then? You had me thinking

you

were Steven because of this post, up until D3 when I was surprised to learn it was RR. (RR knows why in a little more detail.)

[mastin2]

Sonic, when it comes to RR on you, there's not much more that I can do other than say, "Yeah, you're wrong, there."

[mastin2]

I'd like to see mastin's view on everything said, please.

Still sorting, but currently concluding Sonic's town, TW's not.

Key word being 'currently'. But the thing there which'd be likely to change would be TW, not Sonic.

[mastin2]

Aren't we still waiting for Sonic to gladiate, though?

[mastin2]

Grapes who are you allied with right now?

That would be me.

[mastin2]

Hey, here's an idea.

Why not lynch Fuzzy today instead of Sonic?

Vote: TheFuzzylogic99

.

[mastin2]

...The moment you remember you're a voteless townie and thus, that you can't actually vote.



It's there in spirit, though.

(Irony: having a vote when I could have lynched scum but saving it in reserve as a weapon, not having the vote when I want to have it.)

[mastin2]

Sonic may or may not be town, but fuzzy's almost certainly scum.
By play, fuzzy looks much, much worse.

To answer the question directly: claiming a guilty would automatically condemn fuzzy, especially if Sonic's gladiate is real. ("Sonic's scum." "No I'm not, you fucker. *gladiates*" *fuzzy gets lynched*.) Not claiming a guilty means a chance of life, no matter how small, which with this many conftown is a vital thing to have.

(Speaking of which, I DO need to have an alliance all sorted out before day end, in order to keep my vote.)

[mastin2]

So I checked.

On August 7th, Sonic asked to be targeted with night actions.
But that's the only thing in there. He never fullclaimed, just softclaimed.

[mastin2]

Oh.

Crap, missed that.

Yeah, he claimed self-watcher in there, though not the ability-copier half of it.

[mastin2]

Conclusion: Given the game's reliance on neighborhoods, and the three masonries, it is possible that there is a scum PR that counters them by stealing information from such hoods.

But the scum already have a PR to interfere with 'hoods: I forget whether it was Frogger, or Maxwell, but one of the two had the ability to destroy fusions at the very least.

Doesn't mean you're wrong, just lessens your point significantly.

Also, should say: I did work during the night phase last night, which STRONGLY indicated Constantine was town. It also vaguely supported Klingon being town. The claim only strengthened what I already believed. (Admittedly, it basically said the only possible scum was fuzzy, though.)

[mastin2]

Sonic's point is valid, though.

Sonic being town or scum doesn't confirm fuzzy being town or scum.
Fuzzy being town or scum can potentially confirm Sonic as being town or scum.

Ergo, lynch Fuzzy first.

[mastin2]

But in our current situation Sonic has more evidence piled up against him (in my view), and he has the higher probability of flipping scum.

Perhaps by roles, but by play, it is rather the opposite.

Literally

every

piece of play-based evidence points to Fuzzy being scum and Sonic being town, and I do mean EVERY piece of play-based evidence.

Cerb will tell you why I'm geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenerally more inclined to follow play nowadays. (That loss shouldn't have happened.)

[mastin2]

Beer (

LYNCH

):

Replace in, NicCage, Fluminator(Xtoxm), Marquis, vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Skybird, Sonic X, Bins(Constantine), Grapes

fro99er (4):

Beer, Trench Warfare, Ricastle, Cheetory6

Replace in (3):

TunnelWarriors, MaxwellPuckett, CooLDoG

Bins (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

SonicX (1):

fro99er

Not Voting (2):

Mastin2, Reasonably Rational

{Sonic, Constantine, Grapes} are the living names on the wagon that aren't undeniably conftown. (Constantine you can call conftown, though, unless Klingon gambited by conftowning a scumbuddy.)

Off there, you have Cooldog/Klingon and Fuzzy.

If Sonic's right about the wording on the Beer lynch--and I think he actually might be, because I happen to think this is a legit Titus slip--that still means to me lynching Fuzzy.

[mastin2]

Yes, I do. Constantine's cleared by your result unless you want to start doubting that.

So that'd be Sonic and grapes.

Both of which look quite town by play.