STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Trench Warfare]

Btw, another point against Frogger is that BP claim earlier. (Still need to catch up, am doing so soon.)
As a town ascetic, know what your job is?

To die via nightkill

. Like a town miller.
Alternatively, to draw scum PRs if unclaimed, even though that strategy is questionable even at its best.

Know what claiming BP does?

Ensures you don't die via nightkill

.

Catch up before posting anymore please.

[mastin2]

Like, I'm raising a ton. TON. Of points against Frogger, which are a wide variety of different things, different angles to look at it. And basically the only thing, the only way to write that off, is, "Well, his play looks town?"

[mastin2]

Mastin, what could ricastles lack of support for voting frog have to do with frog's alignment? That's sort of sophistic territory you're walking into there. Vezo though idk, that would be nice to hear about.

The basic point is a response to the Replace-in wagon.

"Oh, hey, it's been hard to wagon Replace-in, that means Replace-in must be scum."

To which, I responded, "Oh, YEAH? Just look at the Frogger wagon, which

has resistance from people who

previously supported it and haven't changed their mind

. And go tell me THAT isn't a hard wagon."

I'm fighting tooth and nail here for every vote.

All the while

, struggling to maintain those already existing,

and

with the risk of the existing wagons overtaking my counterwagon attempt at any time to get a lynch. The Fro99er wagon is viable, sure, but it struggles to be tangible.

In contrast, the Replace-in wagon and the Constantine wagon have both existed since the beginning of the day, essentially--the Replace-in wagon going further back than that, to D1! They've been both viable and tangible the entire time (thus, are likely mislynches), so basically, the 'point' against Replace-in is actually a huge black mark against Fro99er, not Replace-in.

[mastin2]

So you think we have
dayvig
gladiate
whatever constantine's power is
reflexive kill/mass commute
you conftown D3
masons
that can't all be town there. No way.

Gladiate--more or less proven. Also town.
Dayvig. Proven. Town.
Reflexive kill/mass commute. Flipped town.
Masons. Flipped town. (Technically they were mason-lovers.)
Me. Town tomorrow.
Constantine. The only name in there not 100% town, but his role is mostly negative utility, not positive utility. Admittedly, it could be a scum role...but only by applying the identical reason to scumread YOU. That being, little town utility, lots scum utility. So if you scumread Constantine for his role...yeah.

Varsoon's answer to strong towns isn't to nerf them. It's to buff the scum. Which, again...a mafia ascetic does a PERFECT job of.

[mastin2]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

[mastin2]

Fro99er also hasn't *done* anything.

Which is, by itself, a something!

Would scum ascetic frogger not tell town he was ascetic, so that way he gets to be a PL for not sharing that information earlier in the game?

And who says he had any intention of being outted as ascetic? A cop failing in their investigation isn't going to go, "Hmm, must be ascetic." They're going to think, "Hmm, musta been roleblocked." Same for ANY role acting during the night. If a role targets an ascetic player, they're not going to think the player they're targeting caused the failure; they'll suspect an outside source. Basic human nature, given the relative rarity of ascetics and the relative commonality of roleblocker-type roles. In fact, Sonic X with a gladiate is probably one of the ONLY roles who targeting Frogger WON'T produce the, "I must have been roleblocked" reaction, since ascetic is basically the only real answer to the shot being expended yet having failed.

[mastin2]

Hey Mastin, when you get back, why do you feel that Maxwell is scum?

Basically, while I see the sincerity people talk about in Maxwell's tone, none of it feels "real". By which, I mean...when I see his tone, I can see the look of being genuine, but when I examine beneath the surface, I don't see any town thoughts. In short, while his words sound good, he seems like a sweettalker, a con man, who makes you think he is something which he isn't. I simply don't see the town motive behind his posting; what I see looks like scum who're just coasting by on what effectively amounts to a free mislynch or two in regards to Replace-in and Constantine.

But it's admittedly mostly a gut thing, which is why I'd happily revisit the read some other time, but now's not the time for me to go about trying to refine my reads list and nail the entire scumteam. Doing so would be an effort in futility and only ensure that Frogger escaped the noose. So focusing on Fro99er is my main priority right now.

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina, this post while catching up thing is rather annoying when you're not reading what is happening in the thread. Please catch up then post. I hammered you for "stalling" in Organic Chemistry for that, and I have no desire to ferret out which thoughts are your current thoughts when we have viable wagons on my scum suspects. We have less than 48 hours. Frogger is not the lynch today.

~Titus

[Sonic X]

Fro99er also hasn't *done* anything.

Which is, by itself, a something!

Would scum ascetic frogger not tell town he was ascetic, so that way he gets to be a PL for not sharing that information earlier in the game?

And who says he had any intention of being outted as ascetic? A cop failing in their investigation isn't going to go, "Hmm, must be ascetic." They're going to think, "Hmm, musta been roleblocked." Same for ANY role acting during the night. If a role targets an ascetic player, they're not going to think the player they're targeting caused the failure; they'll suspect an outside source. Basic human nature, given the relative rarity of ascetics and the relative commonality of roleblocker-type roles. In fact, Sonic X with a gladiate is probably one of the ONLY roles who targeting Frogger WON'T produce the, "I must have been roleblocked" reaction, since ascetic is basically the only real answer to the shot being expended yet having failed.

Yeah and even then my first reaction was "this game is bastard" for a while until Varsoon and cooldog both reassured me that it is intended

[mastin2]

I don’t care that Varsoon may have seen the scum ascetic/ town gladiator before.

May have

seen?!?

He was in the fucking game!

Fuck it. I swore I wouldn't bring that game up, but you clearly are all lazy idiots who refuse to do your own damn research without me wagging the leash in front of you, so here I go. The game in question.

I find it impossible. Literally. fucking. impossible. That we have a 1x Gladiator claim. And an ascetic claim. With Varsoon as the mod. As COINCIDENCE. When he was in that fucking game.

[Ricastle]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

But you recognise it as irrelevant if Fro99er flips scum, right?

Trench, we're still allying tonight, yes?

[mastin2]

@mastin and everyone else who's willing to listen to reason: fro99er is not a problem role as scum if he's outed. Replace in is scum with a way better role than him. Help me lynch replace in and we lynch froger tomorrow.

Enlighten me where Replace-in actually claimed?

Because I haven't seen it, though I have the suspicion that if I did, I'd be townreading Replace-in

harder

.

[mastin2]

That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

This is an absolute shit point too.

Replace-in voted Constantine out of survivalism: Replace-in was the largest wagon, and Constantine the second-largest.

When Replace-in bothered to look at the wagon on Constantine, Replace-in made the analysis that it was a bad wagon, and

in spite of it basically ensuring Replace-in as the lynch

, said that anyway, and I believe hopped off.

Know what that is?

That's town.

Not scum.

RAISING this point AGAINST Replace-in, though, THAT is scum.

[Trench Warfare]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

But you recognise it as irrelevant if Fro99er flips scum, right?

Trench, we're still allying tonight, yes?

Yes. We are.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you were town-reading Vezok D1 and now you have him listed as null. I didn't see anything in your ISO that shows why he's slipped down.

The townread was purely off of his role (okay, I liked his Beer push too), as is the townread on farside.

I'm no longer willing to make that assumption. Maybe they're town, maybe they're not. I can put effort into figuring it out tomorrow if I live, but like I've said, my first and foremost priority is making sure we actually lynch scum today.

Which Replace-in is increasingly screaming to me as not being.
And which I really don't think Constantine is, either.

Soooooooooooooooo, I'm going after Fro99er.

[mastin2]

CoolDog's push on Ricastle was bad, but I dunno if that's scum-bad.

For the record, in agreement about here.

Of all those in the list I had as scum, Cooldog's the most likely to actually be town.

Max saying this still doesn't make him town to me, though.

This isn't normal, this is Theme, and a Varsoon Theme no less.

Yeah, and? I still play a ton of games ESPECIALLY themes (in fact I play or read almost every large theme when I can unless I have a reason to not do so), and I see things as a reviewer that nobody other than a reviewer knows, which means that when I say stuff about how a role is used, I'm not speaking for just Normals. I'm speaking for, generally, the usage on the site as a whole.

And Ascetic is, pure and simple, a quick easy substitute for a Godfather without flat-out lying to a cop, while also giving the scum a weapon against trackers, jailkeepers, roleblockers, rolecops, gunsmiths, and the like. Godfathers are falling out of common usage; ascetics are on the rise. They're still not encountered often enough that people will think, "Oh, my action failed, must be ascetic", but they're there much more strongly as a mafia role than a town one.

And the point about the vote thief similarly stands.

Ascetic might not be an explicitly-scum role, but it's a role far more beneficial to scum, which makes sense to use in the setup.
Vote thief might not be exclusively a scum role, but thanks to the nature of the role, its usage is almost-entirely by scum.

[mastin2]

All you've done is tunnel on frogger so excuse me for just ignoring you continued ranting while sonic lurks like a mofo.

I.
PROVIDED.
A FULL.
FUCKING.
READSLIST.
WITH QUITE SOME DETAIL IN IT.

Yeah

, I'm FOCUSING on Fro99er right now, but that's because I literally don't have a damn fucking choice because every other lynch candidate is by far more likely town than him, so DAMN STRAIGHT I'm raising as many points as I can on Frogger. My readslist might not be as detailed as I'd like, but it exists, and the only reason it's not more refined is because WE ARE NEAR DEADLINE AND I AM TRYING TO LYNCH SCUM.

So refining reads on players not viable to lynch is a waste of time and effort right now, as much as I'd love to try.

[mastin2]

I also hate Grapes and Bookittyslot slot lurking near deadline.

Bookitty's V/LA.
Grapes if not V/LA is due for a prod.

You want lurking, you've got to look at content provided, not at activity.

[mastin2]

lol
for a moment I thought you were going to try to claim using that as a reference or something. It seems to be the thing right now in this game.

^Such as, saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy, this.

[mastin2]

@Mastina, I'm thinking ascetic is used more like a miller here as in negative utility.

In spite of Varsoon specifically including a 1-shot gladiator.
And the ascetic.
Which're from that game.

And the massive scum utility of the ascetic.

He can ally with a townbeard and stop them from voting scum

Damn right he can! (Yes I know what you meant but you get my point.)

or ally with a scum and steal their vote.

Which, (1) scum won't allow since they have the power to choose their alliance... (2) ...Unless they use it as an excuse to coast because their vote no longer matters.

Frogger's role is as protown as his alignment.

So absolutely none then!

As for Hermit, I can't see a legit purpose for his role.

I see it as null. It has utility as town to increase the size of a town neighborhood just like the dead TunnelWarriors' double-ally did. It has the utility as scum to infiltrate a town neighborhood and interfere with town-town discussion. Leaving I realize has some side-effects, but I don't see it as town or scum.

[mastin2]

We have viable wagons on my scum suspects.

Fuck your scumspects, you're lynching town if you're not lynching Fro99er.

[mastin2]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

But you recognise it as irrelevant if Fro99er flips scum, right?

No?

Scum raise valid points on town all the time.

I feel Fro99er raised a valid point on why Replace-in is town.

Frogger flipping scum doesn't invalidate the point just because he was scum, because I'm myself adopting the point as if it were my own. I easily could have said that same thing about Replace-in. So the point holds, regardless of Frogger's alignment. Replace-in is town.

[Ricastle]

Yes. We are.

Great!

VOTE: Replace In

[Ricastle]

No?

Scum raise valid points on town all the time.

I feel Fro99er raised a valid point on why Replace-in is town.

Frogger flipping scum doesn't invalidate the point just because he was scum, because I'm myself adopting the point as if it were my own. I easily could have said that same thing about Replace-in. So the point holds, regardless of Frogger's alignment. Replace-in is town.

You're just being a buffoon then because Fro99er's point requires him to be town in order to be valid.

[Sonic X]

it is easy for scum to call town town