STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Fro99er]

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"

Beer obviously isn't hated

Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch.

Beer could still be hated.

VOTE: Sonic X

[Skybird]

Sonic, someone unvoted a few pages back.

[Sonic X]

I received a clarification from Varsoon via pm. I was the one making the vc mistake. Derp

Ignore whatever I said

[Fro99er]

I still think you're scum

[Sonic X]

Why do you think I'm scum?

[Sonic X]

Oh, that flip flop of votes?

Yeah no

[Sonic X]

Do you like vanity wagons frogger? I am not a vain person unfortunately

[Fro99er]

Oh, that flip flop of votes?

Yeah no

Just go read RB's ISO. I've put plenty in there.

[Fro99er]

I don't even know what a vanity wagon is. I've heard that term, but no clue what it means.

[Trench Warfare]

I'll be back in an hour and fifteen minutes; please hold off on my hammer until then.

Ok will do.

[Sonic X]

I don't even know what a vanity wagon is. I've heard that term, but no clue what it means.

It means placing a vote on someone to create a wagon that has a <1% chance of happening and resulting in a lynch.

Basically, a 1 man wagon


Do you think your behavior is conducive to the game state?

[Sonic X]

Oh, that flip flop of votes?

Yeah no

Just go read RB's ISO. I've put plenty in there.

no you didn't

I see lots of stuff against Vezok and skybird though! Why don't you vote there? What is your rationale? You posted many paragraphs against Vezok in your most recent posts, isn't your vote "better served" there?

[Fro99er]

Do you think your behavior is conducive to the game state?

I don't know. I don't see scum!Beer coming into a PT and claiming scum as something scum would actually do. combined with Vezok's somewhat shadiness in terms of being forthright about what was said and the hated claim deal and I am not feeling good about a Beer wagon. He's probably getting lynched anyway because deadline, but you are my strongest scumread because both you and ZZ are playing to your scum meta.

I also like Tunnel, Radmann/RI, Nic, and possibly Fuzzy (although I wasn't convinced by the meta argument, his posting went super shitty lately) as scum.

So I don't know how conducive my behavior is to the game state, but I'm starting to get really annoyed that every game I'm scumread because of my activity or lack of activity.

[Fro99er]

FFS here you go Sonic

I only have experience with scum Ricastle, but they are being much more joking here and less hostile. Town Ricastle for now.

Spoiler: Vezok

I'm liking farside's questioning and poking. Think she's town.

Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

Yes. I'm actually a scum double-voter in a neighbourhood with town and decided to go all in a gambit with very little pay-out day 1. How do you arrive at such brilliant conclusions my master Skybird? /sarcasm.

This is the towniest post ever. I agree the gambit as scum would be stupid. Further, Beer wouldn't pull the "oh I'm scum" deal as actual scum. Beer's actually the one pulling a gambit as town, and Vezok is actually latching onto it. TvT

Spoiler: Skybird

I'm liking farside's questioning and poking. Think she's town.

Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

why do you like farside's questioning and poking? The Vezok scumread is pretty bad. I doubt it's an intentional misrep. That would just be calling attention on Vezok as scum.

Marquis, what's your case on Sonic?

Marquis, what's your case on Sonic?

VOTE: skybird

i don't think you actually care. empty empty scum

Yeah, and I remember from the last game how well you can read me. Like, not at all.

This marquis focus is bad too. How about YOU actually make a case on someone instead of just asking someone else for their case and then taunting them about how they can't read you. If Marquis is scum, he already knows your alignment. If town, why would you be town taunting another townie?

But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

I doubt this is the case.

Both Pawtucket and I are of the opinion that it's more likely Veko is town. I don't really think he's been "misrepresenting" anything I'm saying so much as "misinterpreting" things. It's also true that I haven't exactly been going out of my way to make it easy for him!

So what is the town motivation for trying to make it harder for a player to read you?

I think you can figure this out. There are multiple reasons. Or are you trying to out some kind of role for your benefit?

people keep posting that garnet song on tumblr and i don't know how i feel about it

blah blah more fluffposting until i find something i care about

also i still don't feel like skybird actually thought she would get a case from me and i think her response was unnecessarily defensive/prepared to some small extent

No, I actually want to know if you have a case and are trying to scum hunt or if you are just screwing around and sheeping others. (for the sonic vote) Now that you are voting me, can you articulate a case or are you just throwing mud hoping something sticks?

Again, can YOU make a case on someone? Or are you just going to keep bugging marquis for a case?

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

This is a good question. I'll ask you the same. How do you look for town or scum motivation, and when will you start to form a case on someone?

Marquis is town marquis. The trolly entrance kind and forming a read with time and information. Not forcing reads at first like I've seen from Marquis' alt.

I can't read Metal correctly. Marquis, what do you make of Z? Scummy?

Spoiler: ZZZX head

ZZZX here on phone. Literally skimmed everything on phone and I am surprised how bad bear case was. Nearly non exostant infact and people like marquis followed it? Marquis I know you are better than following a random paragraph of bullshit that uses some shiny words to appear like a case.

Unless you are scum. Which I hope you are not cus I wana enjoy interacting with you to catch scum

Either way I'll see ya all in 1-2 hours when I am on pc
-Z

This is really fake from Z. Z's also using his deal where he calls people's techniques bullshit (360s or 180s or whatever, associatives, PoE, etc.)

what the hell is this doing in the thread?

I cannot see both of you as town. I think it's very likely one of you is town and one is scum (although I wouldn't discount both scum), so I'd like to PoE you.

So in other words you will use poe.
If they are town we are scum
If they are scum there are two scum and we are scum?

Thus I just heard the most messed up thing in a while

-Z

So grapes is a double voting miller? Also

I mean, call this a chainsaw or whatever. But radman is pretty transparently town.

how is Radmann transparently town? I've never played with Rad so I saw a bunch of wishy washy/nullish reads while trying to appear towny. Four votes on Radmann I wouldn't say is transparently town...unless you are saying it's scum motivated. Who else do you think is scum on the Radmann wagon?

Spoiler: Reasonably Rational/Tunnel Warriors

P.S. Tunnel warriors, I'm not sure I like your role reveal. The multiple alliances thing was fine, and all you had to say. The bit about protecting everyone? Yeah, that makes you a target, and the role is far too useful mid-late game for you to paint a target on yourself on day 1, and I'm sure you realize that. Oh, and then you say bad things happen to scum when you die? Nice way to disincentivize town from lynching you, while simultaneously explaining away your continued survival. Not sure I buy any of the shit you're selling.

-Cerb

I disagree. I think if Tunnel Warriors really is town that this quality would be something they'd want to get out there as part of a town bloc. There's enough power in this game that if they really appear town with time, then a protective role should keep them around from getting NK'd.

That said, Tunnel's push on Marquis is p bad. Fluff =/= scum. Also, I've experienced the exact opposite with Marquis (well actually the Cho alt)

Then I may remind you all how Marquis tends to play with these floaty play-styles when he's scum. As town he's more down-to-earth and serious.

Tried to be all serious with the early reads in our newbie game, and i fell for it too and townread him hard D1. In Ori, they came in with the goofiness and floaty style, then serious'd up after a bit and helped town win

Whew...I'll get to more later.

Spoiler: Max 1

maxwell is still kind of hilarious.

i'm not sure where his experience level/mindset is with regards to what he expects scum to do vs. what scum realistically do. but. lol sorry i'm not trying to make a "lol ur a noob" comment because i hate those too but i'm kind of sick of all the incorrect assumptions regarding how/what scum play/are motivated to do, as well as the whole "marquis isn't drenching the game in useless excess questioning (because other people are already doing enough of that so it feels good to sit back and try and slowly sort through reads instead) so yeah he's probably scum"

well i mean

you're right in that my play could totally come from scum

but to be blunt it's more likely i'm town who doesn't really care about people scumreading me (other than this whole thing about being amused by maxwell - who ftr i would like to say i'm currently leaning town on, if it weren't for how i've been seeing scum these kinds of realistically bs pushes lately) than scum who realized i've been fluffing and didn't really do anything noteworthy for a while to address the scumreads
sorry i just have a bit more faith in my scumgame than that

Marquis you're just giggling at me, expecting me to just find a townread from you without supplying anything for me to work with besides admitting that you're fluffing, and admitting that you're making excuses, as if 'yeah i already know i haven't done anything so your comments mean nothing' somehow means you're town? If you know you're full of it, then do something. You keep saying 'wait, wait' but you've yet to find something in-thread to care about. I'm tired of the aloof better-than-you attitude. Not to mention the lack of questioning people who are actually townreading you for some reason.. I'm trying to understand what you're doing here. What aspects of your play am I supposed to be seeing as

not

scummy? Defend yourself instead of telling me to be psychic.

Max: You say Marquis is just giggling at you and providing anything to work with, yet you quote a post that is completely something to work with. You're latching on to the fluff posting, but underneath the fluff, I've seen substance (and pointed it out too).

Spoiler: Max 2

Bins: Why do you think Ricastle is scumreading you?

No idea. I haven't done anything yet. I'm also not caught up yet because I spent too long playing Borderlands... sales make me lazy, yay. And seeing rage makes me nope out of things.

My only guess would be he thought it was weird/fake/empty/attention-draggy that I was asking who wanted to be allied w/ me when he thought I couldn't even be in an alliance. I would think that would be weird too. I'm surprised he's the only person that pointed that out.

But yeah, can ally, just can't be targeted because I'm special.

So you don't see your lack of game-related talks, besides those regarding your role, as something people would scumread you for?

Well, I ask this now but Ricastle has already said that was why they were scumreading you, but you don't seem to be worried about it. You've been active enough in this game (in a fluffy sense) but haven't really commented on what's been going on, and there has been plenty of discussion happening. What you need to catch up on is basically just the Ra9in9 Bull drama, but the things I'd actually like to hear about happened before that.

Max: why do you keep on fixating on "lack of game related talk" or "fluff". Usually scum are quite self aware about how they appear, so sometimes I see fluffposting as actually a towntell. It really depends on the person and situation. WHY would Beer fluffposting be scummy? Here's what I think. Either Beer really did scumslip in thread and the fluffposting is a way of making light of the situation. The other option is obviously they are fluffposting to get people like you to latch on to it to find them scummy. There are reasons town wouldn't want to totally appear as obvtown. In the case of Marquis, the early fluffposting is mostly null, if not even a bit towny, and now Marquis is applying his mind to the game (see the Skybird stuff, the amished tell stuff which came later, etc.)

Spoiler: Cheetory

Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.

I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.

I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

@Sonic

, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.

The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.

Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.

This is a really good post, but I did want to touch on the efforting part. Efforting often isn't alignment indicative. But, I can see a case for efforting on a townread being more indicative of scum than efforting on a scumread. I think it's a good idea to figure out why Sonic X was efforting on you.

Spoiler: Sonic X

Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.

I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.

I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

@Sonic

, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.

The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.

Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.

if i justified my townread on you as "you look townie" more people would be bitching


cant please everyone

Why are you trying to please everyone? The Sonic I've known so far isn't worried about that.

Spoiler: Sonic X 2

ricastle did one very scummy thing (a more legit scumtell than cooldog's "oh you are directing night actions"), but most of his stuff otherwise would have been ok. i have a method for dealing with these kind of people

policy vote on raging bull

Ricastle is town. If you think ika only rages as town, why policy lynch our slot? Wouldn't a better thing to do be to ignore it or request we replace out and find scum instead?

Spoiler: Sonic X 3

It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

yeah it is? weren't you looking for that? no?

you people are hard to please

Still trying to please people?

Spoiler: Sonic X 4

i am trying to scumhunting in here

give me space, thanks in advvance

Then scumhunt! Stop worrying about your appearance.

Spoiler: Skybird

Hey Skybird. Is there anyone you'd like to vote?

Right now the people I'm willing to vote for are Beer, Marquis, and Ra9in9Bull. These are the three scummiest to me.

VOTE: Marquis

His posting is mostly fluff and his push on me feels opportunistic.

How does it feel opportunistic? I usually use opportunistic to mean an opportunistic reason to hop on an already existing wagon. Do you mean Marquis' case is trumped up and BS? If so, how?

Spoiler: Marquis

The only thing I got out of a Beer ISOdive was that I dislike the way that Pawtucket threw Gordington under the bus for his play early on, but I'm not sure if I just think it's bullshit to treat a hydra partner like that in the open like that or if it feels like a scum gambit to try and ease the suspicion on their slot by being like "oh man look the good head is here to be not scummy now".

yeah this was my initial feeling, like a variation on the amished tell

thing is i've been trying to discern which alignment would be more likely to actually go through with it -

- and i'm aware this might not make sense to some but the lack of hydra partner respect/general ego thing makes me think it's a newer player (in the vein of vonflare/elusive/etc. with limited... skills in that social regard), who also likely wasn't aware of the amished tell being a thing, and thus would not be likely to hesitate with those comments as scum

i mean
pls tell me u see where i went with that

This could be jumping to assumptions (newer hydra, amished tell for replacing used for hydras), but it's also Marquis actually trying to actually figure out why one of Beer's heads is being apologetic for another.

I will catch up more tomorrow. It's late.

[Fluminator]

I'm sticking with my initial read on this one. This third head has looked a bit better, but why aren't the other heads even posting right now when they're about to be lynched? Are they really just letting you do all the work?
I wouldn't really want a vote switch onto Bull anyway. I've seen Ika lurk as town before too and I wouldn't want to lynch off that. Especially now that he replaced out.
Sorry Beer if you're town.

[Beer]

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"

Beer obviously isn't hated

Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch.

Beer could still be hated.

VOTE: Sonic X

>.>

This is an extraordinarily lame vote. You think that Sonic-scum pushes that we are scum because we are not hated when we only have 9 votes on us?

[Beer]

Vezok's somewhat shadiness in terms of being forthright about what was said and the hated claim deal and I am not feeling good about a Beer wagon. He's probably getting lynched anyway because deadline, but you are my strongest scumread because both you and ZZ are playing to your scum meta.

Vezok has been shady about the situation? Hasn't seemed that way at all to me. It seems like he made a misguided push and put his heart into it; you say that he claiming we were hated happened too late but he did it early enough where the town could have did something about it and he was additionally under no obligation to share our claim because it is our responsibility to get in thread and claim our shit. You trying to pin our lynch on his shadiness is bullshit.

There's also that matter of the empty claim of Sonic/ZZZX playing to their scum meta: are you planning on backing that up, or do you hope vague meta assertions about other players are going to carry you to victory?

[Beer]

So I don't know how conducive my behavior is to the game state, but I'm starting to get really annoyed that every game I'm scumread because of my activity or lack of activity.

People are scumreading you based on your activity? News to me!

[Beer]

I'm sticking with my initial read on this one. This third head has looked a bit better, but why aren't the other heads even posting right now when they're about to be lynched? Are they really just letting you do all the work?
I wouldn't really want a vote switch onto Bull anyway. I've seen Ika lurk as town before too and I wouldn't want to lynch off that. Especially now that he replaced out.
Sorry Beer if you're town.

They're not posting right now because they're busy. I offered to post near the end of the day because I am not so busy. I don't understand how this particular hydra dynamic is scummy to you?

You've seen Ika lurk as town, ok. Has he ever gone through an entire day phase with this little content as town before? Do you really think that ika replaces out of this game without telling his own hydra partner as town or do you think he at least makes an effort to defend himself/explain what happened?

I can't stress enough how straightforward and easy the Ika read is. Read his completed games. Skim his ISOs. He lurks comically hard as scum (which is what he's doing here). He puts some sort of effort in as town. That's it.

[grapes]

yo i just woke up and am reading stuff now

UNVOTE:

gonna go toast some bagels and when i get back will probably hammer beer because screw no lynch

[Trench Warfare]

Can you actually just put forth a readwall Beer?

[Beer]

Cheetory looks a little bit better: his point on Bull peddling the possibility or a vezok/us is a good one because that's ridiculous. I wouldn't take him out of a scum category, but I would be less inclined to lynch him over Bull/NicCage.

Bull/NicCage are the two players that seriously seriously need to be looked at when I flip town. Bull is white knighting us: he continually tries to ascribe scum motivation to town players pushing out wagon that isn't there, his thought process doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and he keeps complaining about people pushing him for his activity when the entire push is on Ika for his inactivity.

NicCage jumped on our wagon for dumb reasons, and then when TSO challenged him he freaked out, kind of backed off, left his vote on. That's bullshit.

[Fro99er]

This is an extraordinarily lame vote. You think that Sonic-scum pushes that we are scum because we are not hated when we only have 9 votes on us?

That's not why I voted Sonic. Please read

[Beer]

Marquis should also be looked at pretty closely tomorrow. His Amished tell thing is stretching pretty hard and its difficult for me to believe someone so smart would believe in someone so dumb, he pushed too hard on lynchbait Fuzzy/radmann and recent reads have not been so good. Not really sure on a #4 at the moment.

[Sonic X]

Ok this beer bastard is tough to read

I have doubts that he is scum but I also have doubts that he is town


Let's look a frogger

Tell me why your bullshit is town bullshit frogger. You get 2 chances