Micro 407: Jurassic Park Mafia - Game Over

[Mathdino]

/confirm

Hey Finn, BBT.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Pine because dinosaurs... eat... pine?

Anyway I doubt dietary choice is indicative of alignment. I'm a carnivore and town so that line of thought seems pretty iffy.

Edit: I mean it's possible that the scum entirely consists of carnivores, but that'd make me the exception proving the rule so to speak. I'd doubt it though; seems like a reasonable conclusion to make on Grib's part.

[Mathdino]

Sorry for not posting, it's gonna take about 20 mins for me, maybe longer, to put together some reads based off of ISOs. At the moment I don't have much due to wading through all that setup spec. Gonna post reads tomorrow.

[Mathdino]

Jesus, okay, this game looks like a 4 way attack fest. These reads may shift a bit for the next couple days since I wasn't actually there for most of it; furthermore, I'm literally creating my reads as I write this post and ISO people.
Again, sorry for lack of activity; I thought I'd have more time this week and this is my 3rd ongoing game so it goes on the backburner a bit. Here we go:

First of all, liking

insanity

for town. Contributing things and questioning and all that. Gonna skim through a couple of her metas in a sec.
Okay. Crap. I looked over her scum meta and her town meta and this game seems a lot more consistent with scum meta: shorter posts, less logic, more posts consisting of just questioning, more agreeing/disagreeing without really reasoning through things. Overall, she seems to put a lot more into her town games while cruising with agreement/disagreement with scum games. I hate to use meta right now as reasoning, so I'll shelf this until reading through everyone else.

Null on yung, obv reasons.

FinnLaw

, I'd like to see your reads on things that don't have to do with setup spec.
^Townread though for the time being due to his last post.

Looking over an ISO of Grib and BBT. I think BBT is unnecessarily tunneling something that wasn't even a slip; I've made assumptions based on intro flavour before, and I would've made the exact same assumption Grib made if I got a herbivore PM. What I don't like is him claiming to not make associative reads on D1, yet talking about buddying and soft-defending. Also not liking the undue aggression.

BBT

, can you give me a link to one or two of your scum games? I'm seeing a lot of town games, but I want to see if your playstyle is just a nulltell.
Okay, that said, I want

Grib's

analysis of the Scripten/Beck/Pine exchange. His play has very much stagnated, and I'd say he's unnecessarily tunneling BBT as well. I'd LIKE to say townread due to what happened at the beginning, but I can't really keep that if he continues to not post much of substance. Null for now.

Next up, ISO of Scripten/Pine/Beck. Now, I read the game, but most of the bickering read as chatter to me, so I'm commenting as I go through this.
I like Scripten's first post of substance quite a bit, but I don't agree with his initial Beck vote.
Okay, Beck is responding really terribly to this; it reads to me like he's trying to fit the evidence to his vote on Scripten, especially with the 'policing' thing.

Alright I really gotta go somewhere, but I'm keeping the ISO tab up and I'll finish when I get back. Here's where I'm stopping for the record. My kneejerk reaction is to read Scripten as town and Beck as scum, and Pine hasn't posted enough by that point for me to get a read.
I'll also ask questions and stuff when I get back. See ya.

[Mathdino]

Okay, just finished the 3 way ISO.

What's the deal with the Pine wagon?
What's the deal with the Scripten wagon?

insanity

, I want you to give some of your reads and your reasoning for them.
Also, I got pinged real bad with Beck's rolefishing. There is absolutely no reason we should go after Scripten in light of what he said; there's still at least one more scum in the game no matter whether we lynch Scripten tonight.
VOTE: Beck
for continuing to try to push Scripten.

[Mathdino]

He says he can prove himself town. IF he doesn't, we rope him. Either that or he'll get NK'd anyway.

It's possible, but going after him is pointless right now, and I can understand not wanting to give scum knowledge of what PRs there are.

[Mathdino]

Hmm, okay, this post by Beck seems super town to me. I'm cool with pressuring lurkers as long as we don't quicklynch them.

UNVOTE: Beck
VOTE: yung

[Mathdino]

As of his last post I'm absolutely happy with this lynch.

I don't really have any more analysis, haha.

[Mathdino]

Uh, yes, the reason is because I'm already voting him.

I made that post to make it clear I wasn't unvoting since he was at L-1.

[Mathdino]

Sorry for lurking this weekend, was gonna do some catchup posting tonight but I got distracted and I don't feel like making a lot of shorter posts.

Will post analysis and reads after I wake up.

[Mathdino]

Alright, reads.

Grib:

His defence of hopping on the Scripten wagon was slightly WIFOMy but I'm not getting the wagon on him. He seems like just a medium activity townie who's speaking his mind. He still hasn't answered to one thing though:

Grib, what ARE your reasons for voting Scripten back there?

Beck:

I said it before, I really don't like Beck given the ISO of him/Scripten. But pushing a possible PR lynch like this is plain anti-town. Softclaiming is not a scumtell. Scripten isn't even scummy. I'm confident with this vote.
VOTE: Beck

Scripten

, like I said, very much reads town. Question though,

Scripten, can you restate the reasons for going after Grib

?

BBT

's meta seems pretty consistent when it comes to his tone and aggressiveness, but at the very least it looks like he's pushing a town agenda. Not really seeing scum motivation in his Grib-tunneling, and very much not seeing it in the fact that he's been townreading people a lot this game.

I can't say I agree with insanity's case on

FinnLaw

, because while it may be true that this post was useless, useless =/= scummy. I'm finding it difficult to see FinnLaw purposefully manufacturing that post and fluffing it up, he reads like town trying to consolidate his thoughts on the game.

Got nothin on Pine and Majiffy, obv not willing to lynch a replacement this soon.

insanity

is pinging me but I'm having issues explaining it. I think my main issue is her case on FinnLaw; it seems rather opportunistic, and she's been consistently going after people who are being useless rather than scummy. She had a scumread on Beck earlier but nothing came of that, instead making a case on Finn and then wagoning Yung.

FoS: her

[Mathdino]

Insanity is probably SK if we have one fyi.

What makes you say that?

Mathdino, I already gave reasons. Or maybe it was a reason, singular. Meh.

No you didn't. You said you had reasons but never expanded. If you already did give reasons, sorry, but could you please restate them? (don't just quote yourself please)

[Mathdino]

You could have been just jumping on because it looked like an easy wagon.

Do you think jumping onto what appears to be an easy wagon would be something I'd want to do as scum? Do you think I'd do something that would make literally every single townie look at me and think "wow, he must be jumping on an easy wagon"?

I have actual reasons, don't worry.

Bullshit, no you didn't.

[Mathdino]

Not yet, Grib, I want to wait for Majiffy to finish up. He said he had a scumread on Beck, so let him hammer.

[Mathdino]

I suck at this. Never mind that. Still, seems a bit far from the deadline to hammer. I'd like a bit more discussion on Finn and insanity, and hopefully enough to get a read on Pine and Majiffy.

[Mathdino]

Did you miss where I explained how posting said such uselessness could be beneficial as a scum player?

I have not had a scumread on Beck.

I'm sorry, I meant BBT. My bad. Your reads list had BBT, yung, and Finn as leaning scum.

Anyway, you're right, it would be beneficial; however, my point is just that I don't think Finn was doing that on purpose and I'm having a hard time seeing scum-Finn manufacturing a BS post rather than just using actual analysis.

[Mathdino]

Ignoring the first 3 pages, and ignoring the last 2 pages, can someone please articulate why the hell we want a Grib wagon? I've been waiting on that for pages now...

I do think insanity has a point on the fact that Grib may think Beck is dumb and not scum. I don't think Pine has a point with his willingness to hammer. And I certainly don't think BBT has a point on his apparent 'scumslip' early on.

Or are these the only reasons?

[Mathdino]

I was just about to say that the mod shouldn't need to provide fakeclaims since alignment =/= diet, but I checked my role PM again and I just noticed the flavour actually reasons out why I'm a townie carnivore, which is interesting.

Do you guys wanna do a mass flavourclaim?

I have a fleeting suspicion it may help us if it turns out there aren't fakeclaims, and I doubt scum will be able to out PRs with just dinosaur names.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: Beck
since there's still time to deadline and BBT may have a point.

BBT, still waiting on reasons for voting Grib.

[Mathdino]

When 5 or 6 people are cool with the idea, I'll claim and we can start popcorning I guess.

Beck, why are you against it?

[Mathdino]

My flavour provides a (semi) logical reason for why I'm a carnivore yet town. I think it's possible the more, ah, antagonistic dinosaurs are going to be the scum. Maybe people could paraphrase or quote a bit of their flavour paragraph as well

(@mod: if that's not against the rules).

I'll count you in then.

[Mathdino]

Crap, I wish I bolded that. Hope this doesn't fit your definition of questions related to setup.

@Mod, to what extent are we allowed to discuss the flavour in our role PMs? Quoting, paraphrasing, etc.

[Mathdino]

Dammit, never mind, ArcAngel usually gives fakeclaims in her modded games. Legit ones at that. So this is probably pointless.

On the Grib case, your points seem valid but I can definitely see a town-Grib just fed up with Beck and wanting to lynch him ASAP. The hammering point just seems like confbias, IMO. Actually, same with the wagonhopping; that's very much not a scumtell.

[Mathdino]

Wow, okay, the hypocrisy Grib's pointing out is good enough for me. I was under the impression your suspicions were a result of tunneling and aggressiveness, but it looks like there's scum motivation behind BBT's votes.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Mathdino]

Considering Pine's been tunneling BBT all game, it's pretty likely he'll declare intent to hammer. As such I'm comfortable asking

BBT, care to claim?

Pretty satisfied with ending today, I think all I'd like is more from Majiffy.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: BBT
obv reasons.

Think you can be back before the deadline, BBT? Have you read the thread?

[Mathdino]

@Mod: I used to be obsessed with dinosaurs as a kid. Birds ARE dinosaurs. They are literally dinosaurs. Pterosaurs are just reptiles that split from dinosaurs in pre to early Triassic. Also, Pteranodon had nowhere near the skeletal structure to pick up a human like in Jurassic Park; those were genetically modified pterosaurs created for entertainment but locked up because they were more dangerous than the park thought. Majiffy inspired me to be a stickler about this

. ANYWAY.

Not really much to say on BBT past what Beck and Grib did while I was gone. I'm sold on him.
VOTE: BBT

@Majiffy: Partially out of curiosity, what're your thoughts on the BBT vs Beck tango?

Beck, you can go ahead and declare intent whenever.

[Mathdino]

Wow okay I'm dumb. BBT was never at L-1, I assumed Pine was voting him.

Atm it looks like it'll just take Pine and insanity to vote and end the day.

[Mathdino]

I really don't like this wagon on BBT.
[...]
That said, the way Grib presents his case has cast some doubt on my scum read. It's a fairly well-made case, if not one I can get behind, and it seems to come from a town mindset.

Wait... what?

[Mathdino]

Dear god Scripten you better have a good reason you're town tomorrow because in your BBT votepost I had a real flash of "Oh shit he IS scum".

Yeah I think at this point I could get behind a Majiffy wagon. You'd think he'd say

something

about the wagons at hand. The SK hunting seems like it could be a nice excuse to mudsling some more.

That said I'm probably still happier with a BBT lynch, partially because it gives us more flip info. Majiffy's slot if town is just lynchbait. Might as well poll people.

Pine, Finn, BBT, insanity, thoughts on a Majiffy wagon?

[Mathdino]

Can you explain this out? Is it because I changed my mind on a town read?

Because you waffled between whether or not it was a good case until it was clear this lynch was probably happening. It seems like you think BBT's town but don't want to do anything to stop the wagon.

On the bright side, if either BBT or Majiffy turns out to be scum, there's no way Scripten would out his partner, get him lynched, and then fail to deliver the next day.

[Mathdino]

Hey, Grib, remember those violent flashes?

I think I know what you mean...

[Mathdino]

Pine hasn't been site-active in 2.5 days, it's not like he's active-lurking. Idk about insanity. That said

@Mod: Request prod on Pine.

[Mathdino]

Scripten's gonna have a hard time making that case without breaking the ongoing game rule, so let's just leave it at that. More important questions:

Scripten, is BBT town?
If so, who is scum?
If not, who is BBT's partner?

[Mathdino]

Yeah, you know what, your meta read is good enough for me right now. I played a (short lived) game with BBTown, very similar posting style.
UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Majiffy
I think the town as a whole seems to be more confident with a Majiffy lynch (especially considering how yung got run up) as well.

[Mathdino]

IMO, the very act of lynching Majiffy provides us with wagon analysis and the like. We also have the early yung wagon to look at. Then tomorrow we'll have the NK flip and when Scripten does or doesn't do his thing, we'll have more than enough info from the current conflicts to have some good discussion even if Majiffy flips town.

Okay so I was just about to ask why you weren't voting when I realised that you've been voting him the whole time. Never mind.

[Mathdino]

Here's the thing. Scripten's provided a pretty compelling argument that BBT might be a mislynch. The issue is that A. if Scripten himself is scum, that invalidates the whole thing, and B. BBT seems to enjoy manipulating his meta to screw with meta readers. The fact of the matter is, Beck, if you're right and Scripten's just scum stalling to D2, then we're screwed if we listen to anything he has to say. So let's hold off on the Scripten vs Beck vs Pine vs BBT vs Grib clusterfuck until tomorrow, when we'll have definitive information to help us untangle that.

It's also got to do with the fact that no one in the history of this game has been opposed to lynching Majiffy's slot, since it's kinda useless.

[Mathdino]

I kind of also want BBT and Grib to shut the fuck up. We get it. The other guy's scum. Let us sort out which of you is, or whether you're powerbussing

^This.

I'm still not convinced on the BBT vs Grib bickering, but I really would prefer to get information elsewhere first. The meta analysis of BBT is enough for me to hold off on him, but like I said I'd like Scripten to fulfill his promise before fully believing him on that. And on Grib, well, I don't know. I kind of doubt BBT would've barreled after him since the 2nd page based on a 'scumslip' if they were both scum.

In essence, my opinion of BBT is dependent on how much I trust Scripten, and my opinion of Grib is dependent on my opinion of BBT.

All of which will improve D2. Majiffy's slot I'm much more comfortable lynching; if he's town, which is rather unlikely IMO, at least we don't lynch a possibly valuable opinion.

[Mathdino]

Agree with Grib on this, your post is kind of unfair and tunnely, Pine. Would you prefer he advocate his own lynch? Nothing on this and last page are inconsistent with town-Grib.

[Mathdino]

Wait what? I'm not sure I understand you. Sequence of events:
1. Grib makes a good case on you.
2. Beck agrees with it.
3. I agree with it, vote you.
4. Beck is validated and (finally) understands that you're a more likely lynch than Scripten, votes you.
5. I was under the erroneous impression that you were at L-1, and since Pine was almost certain to hammer you since he's been scumreading you all game, I figured it'd be good for you to claim since you probably were gonna get lynched if Pine was online. I appreciate how you didn't point out that I later realised I was wrong about the VC.
6. I backed off the wagon because Scripten showed why it might be a bad one.
7. You and Grib have your slapfight and blow holes in each other's cases.
8. You find me scummy because Grib's case was near-neutralised AFTER I voted and then unvoted him?

I 'happily accepted' a point because it was a good one. That changed based on the information I was given. I have no idea what you're scumreading.

[Mathdino]

Dude, he conceded those points AFTER all that happened. It was a good case at the time, and a much worse case now. You think I should've been able to instantly see the problems with it and then defend you? That's your job, not mine, sorry.

I don't know, not speaking for Beck. However, that's a pretty common thing to do as town due to emotions. It's called validation. And last I checked, Beck's a pretty emotional player.

Pine had been tunneling you

all game

. If you were actually at L-1, you're crazy if you don't think Pine would've been fine with hammering. However, I don't know Pine, or whether he's the type that hammers without a claim. So I predicted what his move would be (apparently correctly, since he'd been scumreading you until you and Grib bickered for a page), and suggested that a claim might be a good move just in case.

[Mathdino]

Okay, hang on, I'm getting confused. Just tried to ISO Grib and BBT, and I don't think I'm doing that again. I voted you for 585, the 'raging hypocrite' case. Not for 583, which is what you started slapfighting about (If I'm reading correctly; I really don't have the energy to try to analyse your bickering with Grib, stop walling each other and it'll be easier to think about). Grib's concession doesn't nullify his point, which you seem to think it does.

What nullifies his point in MY eyes is what Scripten said, about how you always pull this as town. I did in fact check the posts Grib quoted. I did not in fact check your meta.

You don't think players do that? Seriously? Okay, click on my name. Then view my topics. ISO the mods of said topics, and jump to the posts that ended D1.
Tell me if you still think players don't do that.

[Mathdino]

It happened 3 times, man. 3 of my last 4 day ones have ended that way.

If you're town, it sounds to me that you're scumreading people for being wrong in your eyes. That's a dangerous thing to do. Had Scripten not chimed in, I'd absolutely have still been voting you, as I still think Grib's case is pretty valid.

Don't put your defence on a pedestal just because people aren't voting you anymore. It wasn't

that

good. Just because I don't see everything from your point of view doesn't make me scum.

Edit: He conceded that you called Beck anti-town once. That does not mean he conceded the entire case; the point and the hypocrisy he highlighted is still valid. Again, you seem to have a warped impression of how the you vs Grib argument ended. You see the word 'concede' and assume it means you're right.
That said, I am not going to take up Grib's position as the person to bicker with you over those points. I just ask you to understand my train of thought here, even if it may be incorrect.

[Mathdino]

Good, so at least we're on the same page of both being confused. Grib's case, independently and read by itself, is a very valid case. Grib's case at the time, with the information at hand at the time, was a very valid case.
Grib's case with the meta information available now (assuming Scripten's not lying), is much worse.

Again, your read on me is dependent on Grib's case sucking. Of COURSE it sucks in your eyes. I still don't think it does, and I'm not prepared to fully weigh in until I get that info from Scripten.

You'll have to excuse me if I'm still unclear as to what happened between you and Grib. The hypocrisy case involved you voting a townread and saying it was because he was playing antitown, and only afterwards shifting to calling Beck scummy. His concession agrees that you only called him antitown once. It does not say that he concedes the entire point, and I for one don't completely believe your 693 yet. We're arguing about semantics here.

If you find other reasons I'm scum from the rest of my posts, go ahead. But don't take out your "GRIB'S CASE SUCKS OMG" energy out on me. Again, just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean everyone else should.

[Mathdino]

I feel like you've ignored what I've said, so I guess I'll repeat it.
I'm not not-voting you because of what YOU'VE said. I'm not-voting you because of what Scripten said, which nullifies a good portion of Grib's case.

I did take the time to read it at the time. The case checked out. You seem pretty arrogant to think you already refuted his case before he made it, when 4 players have displayed suspicion on you. Your ISO by itself doesn't refute Grib at all.

I didn't explain much because I don't like to make cases that other people have already made unless I'm trying to interrogate somebody. It makes it look like I'm trying to disguise other's reasoning as my own.

Suppose I'm town and Grib's case actually did convince me. How would you have preferred I voted you? Or is the fact that I made the vote at all what proves I'm scum?

[Mathdino]

Check your ISO, jump to the last post you made before this page.

I explained right below it.

[Mathdino]

Lynch Majiffy today, untangle this clusterfuck tomorrow. All we need is for you people to actually fathom being on the same wagon. Ideally these two:

Id be OK with jiffu, but I see no reason to let bbt off the hook

Please keep in mind that I've been focusing on BBT, and if I were scum, I could have very easily switched over to Majiffy's wagon to ensure my survival into toMorrow instead of risking people siding with BBT against me, which I can feel happening like an approaching storm.

Not if Majiffy is your scumbuddy. Why do you think people are about to switch sides?

Continuation of this day is just going to result in BBT artificially inflating the pagecount. I've been ready for day to end for 2 or 3 pages now.

[Mathdino]

Guys, I hate to use this as a reason, but if we all vote our top scumreads we'll have 4 different wagons and no lynch.
BBT is not happening, already maxed out support for that.
Grib is not happening, most you could get for that is probably 2 or 3 people.
Beck is not happening. The only people who want to vote him are literally the least active players.
I'm pretty sure I'm not happening either.

This discussion is just not feasible anymore. Like Pine said, "We get it.

The other guy

That guy over there is scum."
We need more information to continue, and we'll have that by tomorrow. Let's end the day.

[Mathdino]

Since basically everyone in this game seems to be a suspect, we get the NK flip. We also get whatever Scripten is promising that proves him town.

Your lynch doesn't give us much info, correct, but it's better than a NL and I'm far more comfortable lynching your slot than any of the other 7 players.

[Mathdino]

Lynching for info is bad. I thought we had been over this.

I'm not lynching for info. On the contrary, there's a slew of players I'd lynch if I wanted to go for info.

So what you're telling me is you have absolutely no scum reads and no viable reason to be pushing for my lynch with almost 4 full RL days before deadline

Got a bad feeling about BBT, but Scripten nullifies that with his meta analysis. On the other hand, if Scripten turns out to be scum, I can see BBT being scum. Grib and BBT are likely not powerbussing each other but I can see the scumcase on Grib. Scripten and Beck are either TvS or TvT. Can see Pine/Grib if Grib flips scum. BBT has a dumb argument for Beck being town, seems off to me.
insanity is weird but the rather blinding scumminess of these Powerbus Rangers makes me PoE her as town.

Yeah, I've got reads. But this game has been so focused on bickering that all of them are now associative and mixed up with each other that it's difficult to read people independently.

If you put a gun to my head and told me to guess scum (if you flipped town), it'd be a cross between BBT, Beck, and letting you shoot me. I'm just not comfortable with a lynch on those 5.

[Mathdino]

Please don't tell me you two are planning an OMGUS wagon on Pine.

This game...

[Mathdino]

So you'd rather flatly refuse to bother?

It would make more sense for you to push for a lynch in the 5 so you can better sort the rest.

Yes, because I don't trust myself to sort them out without a flip and not accidentally lynch an active townie. I recognise my faults in scumhunting and one of those is deciding 1v1s that I hadn't already decided before they started fighting. This game, we have like a dozen of those.

No matter what, we get info on Scripten by tomorrow. This, combined with the NK flip, should be enough for me to start working through things.

[Mathdino]

Those of you on my wagon or intending to hammer me: Who are you going to look at when I flip town? Cuz that's a reality you're going to have to face.

Dunno, depends on the NK flip and Scripten's result, combined with my nightly reread. I'll also keep in mind your reads if you clearly explain them. Wouldn't be averse to flowcharting a dead town Majiffy.

[Mathdino]

Also, I have intent to hammer on you, Majiffy. Explaining everything you can about your reads and claiming would be a good idea at this point.

Majiffy is either stalling or didn't read this. I'll give him the latter but Majiffy, your next post really needs to be a response to this.

[Mathdino]

FFS, getting actually tired with this day. This is usually the part where I come back and comment on everyone but honestly, we're going through the same motions and the same conflicts once more. If there's something new to glean from the last few pages, I don't see it. I agree with past-me when I say that we really do need a flip to kickstart this game out of the same bickering.

Scripten, this day should've ended like 3 RL days ago. Majiffy is clearly not willing to give last words or a claim, you can go ahead and hammer.

Edit: Dammit, forgot about FinnLaw.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE:

Majiffy's giving me cold feet as to lynching him. Scripten could've hammered a long time ago; any one of these posts could've been his last words to convince town, and they weren't. That last post was good too.

Without a deadline, I'll reread the thread and decide whether or not to flowchart.

[Mathdino]

*his last words to convince people he was town

[Mathdino]

Holy shit. With that post, no you're not.

VOTE: Beck

Still haven't gotten around to rereading the thread. Generally bad day, pretty sure reading about bickering will exasperate that xD
Will do in next 24 hours.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: Beck
Put your vote on him, mine was for pressure. I'll hammer after I've put in as much effort/analysis as I feel comfortable with. Majiffy was correct in that it'd be dumb to just give up and not even consider analysing the Powerbus Rangers.

[Mathdino]

Yes, it's because I want to reread the thread and you stating 'intent to hammer' makes me worried you will before I'm done. Trust me, I'll hammer him when I'm done.

[Mathdino]

Scripten, why are you suddenly unwilling to vote? Did I read your pedit correctly in that you originally voted but deleted that?

[Mathdino]

Yes, it's because I want to reread the thread and you stating 'intent to hammer' makes me worried you will before I'm done. Trust me, I'll hammer him when I'm done.

So you are going to take your time to reread and hammer me no matter what?

Oh lol I didn't see this. Well, Majiffy is now town in my eyes, and I trust his scumhunting ability fairly well.
If something really glaring comes up in my reread that makes me think you're town, I'll change my mind and post that instead of a hammer.

I'm a bit paranoid about hammers before discussion is over, and since I don't think I've said quite enough yet, I'd prefer to be in charge of that.

[Mathdino]

Beck was already at L-1 before, he claimed VT. I put him at L-1 to see his reaction at the danger of being lynched again.

[Mathdino]

Wait what? What are you trying to achieve?

Why would I hammer someone I just told you I'm townreading?

Why did you state intent to hammer 3 times, back off his wagon, and suddenly vote jiffy again?

No one hammer yet.

[Mathdino]

@Mod: Is it possible for you to take off Finn's vote since he's getting replaced?

[Mathdino]

Wait shit Finn's not voting Majiffy.

Can someone unvote jiffy please.

[Mathdino]

Not from reading the thread, but I'm beginning to think we should run up Scripten again. Ever since his softclaim it's like he's been using that as an excuse to literally be the scummiest person in the game. The deadline freeze actually gives us a ton of options.

[Mathdino]

Gee Scripten, I wonder what

possible

motivation I might have right now for wanting to stall the lynch, what with the

looming

deadline and all.

Scripten thinks a Majiffy scumflip will lead to me. Yet somehow my actions were what caused him to (finally) vote Majiffy after saying he would 3 or 4 times, and completely nix his read on Beck.

[Mathdino]

Just chiming in in the middle of writing up a summary, that Majiffy is always a stubborn douchebag, and that's why we love him. Not alignment indicative.

[Mathdino]

Call it a change of heart about the game. I didn't get off the wagon because the deadline was approaching and I didn't have the motivations to read through the friggin mess of a game y'all created, so I figured I'd wait for the NK flip to see what happens. Without the deadline though, we can do more than that.

The townread comes not from the fact that he's a stubborn douchebag, but from the fact that he pretty much should've been hammered 3 times yet chose not to do a last words or thoughts type post other than "LYNCH BECK TOMORROW DAMMIT". And then he suddenly contributes a useful amount of information and puts in a fair amount of unnecessary effort for a dead man walking. It's not because of the content of his post (although he does make a good point) but the timing and the change in effort.

[Mathdino]

VCA is still something.

Yes, I would. However the reason that scum would avoid contributing too much is because they expect to be lynched and they don't want associations to be drawn. Scumajiffy clearly expected to be lynched there. He'd be crazy not to have, what with people threatening to hammer right next to the deadline. So why take the time to make that post above? Doesn't take nearly as much effort to bicker with Beck.
I think that post was him giving in and creating a last words post before Scripten finally decided to hammer. Not sure why scum would do that.

Edit: Not true. I'm still considering the possibility of forcing Scripten to claim. Funny thing though, he softclaimed on page 3. If he's town, he should know he'd prolly be the most likely NK target just for that.
Don't wanna rehash Beck's arguments but reading through them is starting to sway me.

[Mathdino]

Okay I fell asleep and the write up is saved on another comp. Promise I'll still get to that.

@insanity

: His point appears to be that the BBT/Grib voters all migrated to his wagon, and that the BBT/Grib/Majiffy wagons are all a counter to the Beck wagon. In other words, he's trying to prove that one of him and Beck is scum, and wants us to lynch Beck if/when he flips town.
This would be

pointless

if he was scum for obvious reasons. Now, you could say he did that for towncred, but then why didn't he do it after people kept threatening to hammer (that's the timing part)?

@Beck

: Here's the thing about Scripten/Majiffy that makes it practically impossible. Suppose they're the team. Yes, it's true Scripten stalled the hammer. However, Scripten is willing to risk his buddy getting hammered by me or Pine (he clearly taunted me to hammer, a newbier me might've), WITH THE KNOWLEDGE that his town-confirmation thing tomorrow is total BS and that we've made it clear he'll get lynched tomorrow if he gives the excuse of being roleblocked or something. This is all when he could've just gotten people off the Majiffy wagon and back onto Beck's. There's a difference between getting towncred and playing against wincon.

@Scripten

: People have been asking you to hammer long before that counterwagon post. Again, timing.

The post you called out does not look scummy to me, though I was able to see how it might look scummy to you. I went after him for this, which is blatantly scummy. You'll note that Beck squirms much more under pressure, which is why I put him at L-1; after all, the post that switched my read was right after you called him out on something. I was hoping to elicit more reactions and try to solidify that read.

I unvoted (and am still not voting) because I don't want a lynch right now, and Beck's made it clear that arguments get more reactions from him than votes, so that avenue is pretty much pointless. You're absolutely right in that I panicked, because again, I don't want the day to end anymore. And yes, around that point is when I just went "Holy shit, wtf has Scripten been doing for the past 5 pages, why is he not explaining how he can confirm himself, he acts like he won't be NK'd anyway so he might as well explain to get Beck to stop tunneling, what's the deal with his wagon flipping, etc etc". I tend to take reaction tests outside of RVS ones at face value because to not do so is dangerous (I would've been so pissed if you hammered Beck anyway).

You trying to fish a reaction out of me seems plausible enough. I am still confused as to why you're so averse to hardclaim when you've been softclaiming from very early on; had you not been run up, it's likely you would've been NK'd just for that. I also appreciate how you choose to mock me for not calling what your actual BS was.

@BBT

: Contemplation =/= actually going for it.

[Mathdino]

Again, since your actions in the last 2 pages that caused me to total scumread you are now nullified, I won't be going down that route today.

Agree with Majiffy on the fact that a townflip on him gives probably the least information out of any townflip, while also losing one of the better scumhunters here. Risky lynch if he's able to keep up a reasonable level of contribution (and if I'm right on him being town).

[Mathdino]

Actually, scratch that, insanity townflip gives pretty much nothing as well. Regardless, point stands.

[Mathdino]

Read his posts, Beck, he was fishing for reactions out of me. He never would've hammered.

[Mathdino]

I want to note that if Scripten is scum and thus can't provide confirmation tomorrow, the correct play there (if you're town) would be to hammer because he'll die tomorrow anyway.

[Mathdino]

486 was the mod.

[Mathdino]

Spoiler: 1. I don't remember exactly what posts I meant back then, but looking back, I do like these posts.

This is irritating. Let's get back to killing BBT.

Spoiler: kill

Grib saw this and assumed that Herbivores must be town.

Grib is scum. Votes on Grib please.

Refuses to acknowledge the possibility that I'm town. He has yet to present a reason why what I did was a scumslip specifically rather than a general derp.

That's how it looks to me.

Just calling it how I see it.

Low-hanging fruit...on page 3...

Not sure if serious...

Now attempting to back off, trying to weasel out of his strong scumread of me.

Fantastic.

Can you tell me why you're so sure he isn't scum?

Irritated that nobody jumped onto my wagon with him. And now he's trying to force Pine to justify his townread of me, rather than giving an actual reason why I'm scum since his one (1) original reason is, at best, smoke.

Also exaggerating Pine's townread of me, when Pine himself stated it was mild.

I think he has a scum PM.

I think he used the intro flavour to guess that townies would be Herbivores based on the colours used in the intro post.

I am an Herbivore and made an assumption based on the flavor.

Moving on.

I think he has tried to word it to look like a town-slip when it's actually a scum-slip.

Now you're just reaching.

I think he got a scum PM based on the following sentences you quoted.

It's alignment indicative because he has tried to use that to make himself look like town, or that he has town-slipped, but I see it as a scum-slip.

PEdit - Beck, I have made that mistake before. Every time I read Scripten's questioning, it makes me want to scum-read him. Give him time to get into the game before you read him too hard.

How did I try to use it to make myself look town? My intention was to use the information I thought I had to lynch scum.

Also, BBT's handwaving and reluctance to immediately pounce on an admitted possible scumread, unlike what he's been doing to me, has been noted.

Mod has said dinosaur eating habits are not alignment indicative.

Then I was wrong.

OK, well I don't think I can explain it any better than I have already tried.

aka I have no actual reason besides this pile of bullshit.

Beck is being way too self-defensive and his vote on Scripten is super weak. If BBT flips scum, Beck dies next.

@Mathdino

I find it weird your first townread is insanity. She hasn't really done anything especially towny.

How am I "unnecessarily" tunneling? I want BBT dead, I've given my reasons why, and he is blatantly ignoring half of those reasons, lying, and reaching for bullshit evidence. He has one reason to scumread me and it sucks.

But I can come back to him later, since apparently town is blind.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Scripten

I will ride this wagon.

248 doesn't make sense to me.

If you're not concerned with getting shot, why don't you want to claim? Why is it rolefishing if people want you to claim before deciding to lynch you? You either get lynched and flip town, get shot and flip town (in which case your power is moot) or live and are "revealed" or whatever as town. Because if you're not, you will be lynched.

Don't see how Beck is rolefishing here. Also love how you're capitalizing on BBT's idiot!tunnel without giving a fuck as to the reasons I have for him being wrong or scum.

The majority of toDay has revolved around Beck being wrong and BBT being wrong.

I want BBT to die. I've given my reasons. If Scripten is not 100% townfirmed toMorrow, I want him to die as well, and fast. Do not listen to anything he says if he is not confirmed. I don't want Beck or Mathdino to die, even though Beck can't be bothered to switch on his brain. He probably shouldn't be around for endgame if he keeps tunneling people for dumb reasons, so that's something to consider. Everyone else is varying shades of lynchable.

That's really all I have to say about the gamestate.

2. Haven't meta'd him, no. Scum motivation was to strongarm a claim out of a townish player.

3. I've played with FinnLaw and BBT before, thus a higher quality of their reads. The probability of me metaing someone is directly proportional to A. my frustratedness at figuring them out, and B. the amount of effort I put into the game.

4. Because of the lower number of posts he'd made, I couldn't get a read yet. They looked like they could easily come from any alignment.

5. insanity read had a lot to do with the fact that I felt the Finn wagon was unwarranted and a bit iffy. IIRC my FoS on her was nixed in the next page, not sure if I mentioned that.

6 (there was no six but whatever). Yeah, my posts lack content and general quality. My townishness is pretty much directly proportional to how much effort I feel like putting in, and tbh, this game's clusterfuck demotivated me from wanting to figure it out. Also why I'm procrastinating on my own read of the game (and reads in general). Then lack of effort snowballs into being even more confused, thus my half giving up for D1 and going after yung's slot.

[Mathdino]

fferyllt, you're the first person on the internet to consistently think I'm a girl xD. I think my avatar may be a female rex, so I guess that's valid.

Anyway, you have no conclusion for the last 10 pages. Current/updated reads?

[Mathdino]

Funny, that's exactly who I was expecting apart from Scripten. insanity's been more of an outsider to the clusterfuck all game. A flip on anyone inside {BBT, Grib, Scripten, Pine, Beck} would give us a TON of info.

Scripten

, I fully expect confirmation in your first post.

[Mathdino]

Dammit, are you telling me Scripten's a friggin fruit vendor?

[Mathdino]

BBT, stahp being dumb.

Scripten performed some night action on Beck, and given said night action (and assuming Beck didn't fuck up the math) there's a 75% chance Scripten is town. I don't know why Scripten chose Beck for that, maybe something to do with "If Beck doesn't confirm me then we speedlynch him".

[Mathdino]

Let's not setup spec on that and trust Beck for the time being.

[Mathdino]

Game Setup

Discrete Flavor
Based on Jurassic park theme
Normal mechanics
No bastard

[Mathdino]

PoE tells me the scum are in {Grib, Pine, fferylt}, since I trust Scripten's meta on BBT as said earlier, I trust Beck to confirm Scripten as town, and I HIGHLY doubt Scripten/Beck is a thing (where they set up the whole town confirmation D2 thing) because of Beck's indifference to getting almost lynched a few times. If Beck got lynched, Scripten would have no one to 'confirm' him, and then would be lynched.

Much to what I expect would be insanity's chagrin, I'm still townreading FinnLaw, though I haven't gotten enough of fferylt as to her realtime interactions with people to get a read on Finn's current incarnation. So if I had to guess, it'd be Grib/Pine.

Will go back and run a few ISOs to see if that's consistent.

[Mathdino]

I wouldn't vote her; she's at the bottom of my lynch pool. That PoE is extremely subject to change if I'm unable to see anything supporting fferyllt/Pine, fferyllt/Grib, and Grib/Pine.
Scripten, why BBT?

[Mathdino]

Mathdino:

I'm town. Want confirmation? Ask Beck. He is my townie confirmation. Give me your most detailed read on Grib, please.

Sorry I didn't see this. I'll let you know what happens after I ISO him and a bunch of others. Kinda working right now so expect that within the next 12 hours.

[Mathdino]

^Townpoints for implicating herself in her own NKA

I dunno, honestly. You'll recall my going around hoping for a NK flip among {Scripten, Beck, Pine, Grib, BBT} and how it'd unravel a lot of the game, scum might've gone for that.

[Mathdino]

Aaand now you're subject to WIFOM.

Why don't you think Beck, Scripten, BBT, and Grib would kill insanity? Again, highly low info kill since she had a sort of 'above it all' thing going on; I did too until I entered the lynch pool. I'm just kind of confused as to why someone WOULDN'T kill insanity. Were you expecting to die or something?

Despite my join date, I've only completed 4 games, just in case you wanted to know. Not sure if that's what you meant by 'thumbnail model', though I can't really argue with the fact that that's exactly what I'd do.

Edit: Pine and I are both in the lynchpool, fferyllt. And this game showcases pretty much my most apathetic play in history due to the fact that I don't think I really mesh well with the playerlist. Pine and I'd be terrible NK targets.

[Mathdino]

1195=Goodposting

Dig deeper on your gut feelings on about BBT. Everything he's doing seems disjointed and nonlinear. Town doesn't generally make a big reversal without a good damn reason

Kind of flattered by your thumbnail model? I think?

Except that is literally BBT's playstyle. Tunneling, hopping, and hypocrisy.

[Mathdino]

Interesting point, Scripten, I'll have to look over that.

:mental note. check to see if playerlist has at least 2 logically oriented players before signing up for themes i like:

[Mathdino]

I did, Pine. Lot of this is based off of Beck's behaviour after being at L-1 for the 2nd time, and because of whatever night action happened. If you guys are neighbours, I do trust you'll come up with better reads of each other. Also I had a nagging suspicion that Scripten/Beck was what was actually going on near the end of yesterday but that's clearly out of the question.

[Mathdino]

Also reading fferyllt's arguments helped put Beck in a different light. The meta aspect is good too.

[Mathdino]

Literally all my reads are from PoE. Y'all play scummily enough that this is pretty much a game of nailing townreads for me.

I'll write up a VC chronology when I have more time, that might help a bit.

[Mathdino]

Yes.

[Mathdino]

Except that is literally BBT's playstyle. Tunneling, hopping, and hypocrisy.

Based on Scripten's meta defense?

Yes.

A meta defense that I don't think is applicable right now due to various diversions from the norm?

I've yet to reread the game

cough because reading y'all is tedious cough

, so I'm keeping in mind current arguments until I do. My reads are very much subject to change, don't worry.

[Mathdino]

Guys, if the death of fferyllt points straight to Grib/Pine getting lynched, wouldn't killing fferyllt be a dumbass move?

[Mathdino]

Well I was thinking grib/pine last night just off points you made, I had convinced myself that you were absolutely going to die.

Now im less sure of my reads, and my read of you, especially since I remember who you replaced.

I'm going off of this.

If you guys have an issue with fferyllt just because she didn't die, wouldn't that have made not killing fferyllt a good move?

[Mathdino]

Agreed. I find it really odd how sure Scripten was that he wouldn't get roleblocked though.

[Mathdino]

I'm trying to not base anything off of NKA until I get reads, basically. Then I'll look at NKA to see if it's consistent with said reads.

I was under the impression that there was someone other than Beck who had that opinion. If not, never mind.

Edit: You believe fferyllt and Pine are NKA? I didn't understand you there.

[Mathdino]

did you just self-meta

[Mathdino]

ughhhh I still have to read this game

Grib saying that opens up Grib/BBT as a possible team to me. Will have to see if what Scripten said about him has viability.
At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if Grib and Pine are trying to bus each other.
In the interest of self-awareness, yes, I'm still WIFOMing it up, and no, I have no conviction in this yet. Still have to read.

Scripten, my town pool would be you and Beck.

Edit: stop posting sheesh

[Mathdino]

LOL

Thanks for the laugh, Beck.

[Mathdino]

I do what Scripten's doing as town. I don't really have a problem with it as long as it doesn't replace scumhunting and actually pushing for his lynch pool.

[Mathdino]

Congratulations guys, we now have 5 votes on 5 different players.

Walls incoming. Currently on page 10 and I'm getting a way better grasp on the game now that I'm writing about it.

[Mathdino]

Hmm, from my reread, I can see that in a way. Removing Scripten, the possible teams right now are Beck/BBT, Beck/fferyllt, Beck/Grib, Beck/Pine, BBT/fferyllt, BBT/Grib, BBT/Pine, fferyllt/Grib, fferyllt/Pine, Grib/Pine.

Inclined to slash Beck/fferyllt and Beck/Grib for voting patterns. Beck/Pine is dumb. BBT/fferyllt and Beck/fferyllt seem unlikely based on a quick ISO of Finn; he took sides on BBT and Beck early on but then changed his mind fluidly and seemingly independently of the chaos around him. That leaves BBT/Grib, BBT/Pine, fferyllt/Grib, fferyllt/Pine, Grib/Pine. 380 pings me a bit on the possibility of fferyllt/Grib, will have to look over this later.

Anyway point is, Pine's initial push on BBT could very well make sense from a scum standpoint trying to get BBT to stop the tunneling on something pointless. So far though, I'm a little more inclined to see BBT/Grib than BBT/Pine. Will let you know how I feel about this later on.

[Mathdino]

I suppose the bright side of this is from my standpoint, there MUST be scum in {Grib, Pine}. So that's useful to consider.

[Mathdino]

Alright, who's got townread (anyone you will not even compromise lynch) lists for me? I want to know where everyone stands right now.

Also this:

Lynch Pools (Lynches spawned from tunnels are bolded; Reaction-test/Associatives/PoE are italicized)

Scripten:

Grib

,

Mathdino

, BBT
Beck:

Grib

,

Pine

,

BBT

Mathdino:

Grib

,

Pine

Grib: Mathdino, Pine
Pine: Grib,

BBT

BBT: Mathdino,

Beck

Fferyllt: Grib, BBT

As always, correct me if this is a misrep.

Town Pools

Scripten: Fferyllt, Beck
Beck: Scripten
Mathdino: Scripten
Grib: Scripten, BBT, Beck
Pine: Scripten
BBT: Scripten, Grib
Fferyllt: Scripten

This is actually rather helpful. IMO it reinforces the idea of fferyllt/Pine. Will look over fferyllt's posts since the fact that they're out of each other's lynchpools is probably significant.

[Mathdino]

Alright, I'm gonna treat this as a sort of catchup post. Won't be chronological, gonna be adding to different topics as I go; this'll serve more as notes for me and I'll write up my conclusions in the next post. Here we go.

Okay I just got to page 20 and this is way too much so I'm just gonna keep reading and post thoughts as I go. Beginning to reconsider Grib/Pine as even making sense, seeing as they both parked their vote on BBT for a long period of time. Granted, Pine did move on to tunneling Grib for a long while later on. Hmm. Gotta get back to this.

Grib vs BBT

Pretty much originated from Grib seeming to think that carnivores are the scum and herbivores are town (which I wouldn't say is that far fetched, mostly), and BBT jumps and claims it's a scumslip because Grib assumed something based on the mod's intro. Now, this is dumb. However, both of them here seem to be in a confused town mindset. Grib then backs off a bit and says his dinosaur's personality "loathes the very existence of carnivores" and after I claim carnivorous town, says "If someone else confirms that Carnivores can be town I'll buy it".

BBT doesn't really expand on the scumslip theory, but the very fact that it makes no sense and seems more of a conspiracy type theory gives townpoints to BBT, since I think stretching it like this oftentimes comes from a townmindset than a scum one. This post exemplifies what I'm talking about. "He tried to give a townslip but I read it as a scumslip". Again, dumb theory, but from a town mindset.

Now see, this case by Grib on BBT is also dumb, in essence, calling BBT scum for tunneling. But at the same time, it's not dumb in the "I've got this crazy conspiracy theory" sense, it's dumb in the "Look at this guy's dumb arguments, let's lynch him for it!" sense. Looks bad. BBT then continues to tunnel Grib but one of the good points he made was here, referencing Grib associating BBT and Beck. Funnily enough, this gives me the feeling that Grib/BBT is possible and Grib was trying to line up a lynch on a townie after getting cred from bussing. BBT's harebrained theories above actually make sense if he's stretching to attempt to bus. Will keep this in mind.

Okay this post after BBT switches to Beck is laughable and also a bit weird. It's like Grib is asking BBT to tunnel him again.

Pine vs BBT

Goes after BBT for , soft defending Grib in the process. Claims that BBT was going after low-hanging fruit. Bit fishy here, but a small issue with Grib/Pine would be their voting together, which seems a bit odd, though not impossible.

Huh, okay, here insanity points out Pine's defenciveness of Grib, which does seem to hold some ground. Then BBT townreads insanity for agreeing with him, which is a lil bit iffy, but not too much for suspicion.

Pine and BBT go at it again from 202, where Pine gives reads and they bash each other's thoughts. BBT makes an ass out of himself talking about Pine having fewer reads than he does, but otherwise it's just general over-aggressiveness. What does ping that I didn't notice before was "To avoid the hypocrisy that was almost this post" by Pine; he asks BBT to give his thoughts and then makes an effort to not be a hypocrite. Town shouldn't have to try to act town or avoid hypocrisy.

The Beck Wagon

Scripten goes after Beck, Beck responds by pointing out that he voted Beck for not giving reads while quoting him giving reads on 3 people, and voted Scripten. Admittedly the first time I went through this I thought it was scummy for OMGUS but Beck did make a good point here, just not communicating it well. Not going to comment on the majority of the Scripten/Beck tunneling because Scripten's town and most of this is painful to analyse, but suffice it to say, I can see how Beck would've been incredulous at Scripten's points. Then Beck seems to derp some more on setup thinking that scum are omnivores (this is after saying he was going on about assuming carnivores wouldn't be scum). Townpoints here, doesn't seem like something scum would do.

Grib goes after Beck in 115. At this point, Grib has participated in all the loudest players' conflicts (Grib and BBT, Scripten and Beck) while ignoring the rest (Pine, yung, insanity).

The Beck wagon is mostly quiet (ignoring most of the Scripten/Beck bickering) until he starts tunneling Scripten and BBT, fed up with Beck refusing to put his vote anywhere else, votes him. Now, I concede that if one's looking at merely BBT's ISO, this looks bad. However, in context and actually reading through the game, I can see how BBT went there. So that's pretty much null.

The FinnLaw/fferyllt Slot

FinnLaw's first few posts look alright. 190 is pretty town. Scum shouldn't find it hard to pick a side and go with it. Finn probably had the same issues I did getting into the game. Unfortunately, like I said above, 377 gives me flashes of Finn/Grib, considering the fact that he was townreading Grib the entire game but half encourages people to join the wagon, if I'm not misinterpreting.

The Scripten Wagon

What even happened here... Okay so Scripten asks for votes on Pine, BBT joins him, at which point insanity, Grib, and Beck all jump on Scripten, forcing him to softclaim. I think it goes without saying that BBT and Grib are the strangest aspects of this (Finn had his vote parked on Scripten from a while ago). But while BBT already had issues with Pine, Grib's participation was definitely off, especially when asked to provide reasons, saying Scripten's naked vote wasn't what made him join the wagon, yet "In fact, it actually helped a little". Then after the softclaim, Grib heads back to BBT. To actually listen to the thoughts of the dead, insanity states here that it's likely scum was involved, and comes to the conclusion that Grib's vote was indeed fishy (how validating).

Hmm, things from the past. Here Scripten responds to Grib (who said Scripten either gets lynched and flips town, claims and gets shot and flips town, or live and get confirmed). Scripten just says that the idea that he'll get shot is untrue, and refuses to explain any more than that a hard claim would nullify his role.

The yung/Majiffy Wagon

This'll be fun. Starts out with BBT calling him out for lurking. Not too bad, pressure vote, pretty much what I did. Then insanity and Scripten joined it after he explained his 'random' vote, and Scripten left after yung got force replaced. Now. Finn backing off and questioning the yung wagon is townish, have to give him that.

Grib vs Pine

Starts here after Grib keeps talking about Scripten and BBT being unaligned; Pine says Grib had lost all town cred right there.

[Mathdino]

The scumteam is Mathdino and one of [Pine, fferyllt]. This is assuming there are no third parties.

I'm town. Scripten is likely town based on his role. Beck is probably town based on D1 and almost getting himself lynched multiple times. BBT is likely town for not capitalizing on my wagon, despite me being on everyone's lynch list -- he was after me all yesterDay, and if he voted me toDay, nobody would even blink. Easy mislynch for him.

And since I believe fferyllt and Pine are nka, that leaves Mathdino. If I'm lynched toDay, focus on those three.

Discuss. I want everyone to be as clear and straightforward as possible toDay.

Yeah, so I'm reading up until 30 and I still can't decide between Grib and Pine. That said, this logic sucks considering it throws out the possibility of Pine/fferyllt and also seems to inexplicably leave BBT alone for townreading him. It's just all kinds of fishy. If Grib/BBT is a thing, they're backing off each other only once a lynch on Grib becomes a possible reality, and if BBT is town, it's like Grib is trying not to provoke him by starting up that argument again.

I'm gonna have to
VOTE: Grib
here. If it's not him, it must be Pine.

[Mathdino]

Here's where I'm at right now.

Town

Scripten
Ffery
Grib
Pine
Math
Beck

Scum

Don't like Pine's push on Grib. Feels contrived.

Don't have much else to add. Apathy is taking over.

Got a question, BBT. So you're clearly cool with either a me lynch or a BBT lynch today. Yet yesterday I believe you said that because BBT and I both sheeped Grib's case at the same time, it makes it unlikely that we're scum together.

Do you still think me/Beck isn't a possibility?
If not, who's the partner for either of us?

Edit: Right, which is what makes me think it's either you guys backing off each other to avoid actually lynching, or alternatively you backing off BBT so he won't tunnel you again.
Still got 20 pages to go, and I've read nothing fferyllt's said. However, from Finn's posts alone, I think I can rule out Finn being scum with anyone other than you and Pine. Finn barely mentioned Pine in his ISO, so nothing to make me think otherwise. I'll figure this out.

[Mathdino]

EBWOP: *either a me lynch or a Beck lynch

[Mathdino]

I have nothing to say because I stopped writing that post at page 20. I'm currently on page 30 and you haven't replaced in yet. I've done 0 analysis on your D1 posts whatsoever.

Don't worry, I'll get to that.

[Mathdino]

BBT, I didn't ask you to townread me for that. I'm not the kinda guy to keep private notes, you can see that if you read basically any of my games. I'm stream of consciousness, and I publish those so people can comment on them and bring sections to light if necessary. After all, if I just said 'I'm reading [X] because ~reasons~" I'd sure as hell want you to know why and how I got there.

You'll notice that it was not IIoA, however, if you read said notes. I summarised and then commented.
If you're going to cast a blanket statement on the post as IIoA (or at least that's what I'm getting when you say 'running diary') then at least read the post. Or you can ignore it.

See, here's the thing. We're at the stage where we really do have to comment on potential partners. Suppose Beck is lynched and flips scum. Who is scum? Suppose I'm lynched and flip scum. Who is scum?
The entire reason I ruled out Beck after wiping my reads is I legitimately can't see Beck/[any player in the game] from the first 20 pages. So I think it's important to look at associatives at this stage.

[Mathdino]

It's a post that people will town-read you for. I'm letting you know it doesn't work with me.

You 'find scum' your way and I'll find scum my way. Associative tells are a bad way to scum-hunt when you don't have the relevant information available.

How don't we? We have 50 pages of information. It's extremely relevant when Beck is a bad lynch target due to associations. There just aren't that many available scumteams right now. So if you think I'm scum, or you think Beck's scum, you need to make sure that there's even a possible partner, or it rules out that possibility.

Also why do I care if you don't townread me for that? Your job is not to convince me I'm scum. Make an argument as to why it's scummy and I and others can respond to it. Otherwise it's just you being arrogant.

[Mathdino]

Yeah...
that's exactly what it is...
I'm not seeing what you're trying to say. What ELSE would it be? I paid very little attention to the game back then, the reread was

necessary

for me to get my bearings.

What's the relevant information? The flip? Because if and when that flip occurs, you're gonna need to look back at the game and see where things stand. Why can't you do it now? Why can't you prepare for the flip?

If Beck flips scum, it'll be Pine because every other pair makes little to no sense. Alternatively, it'll be Scripten and it turns out he's been lying about his PM, but that's unlikely.
Now answer your own question please.

[Mathdino]

Yeah, see, BBT, the main reason people have had issues with you this game is because you seemed to arbitrarily switch reads and go full hypocrisy on them.
In some formal debates, it's common process to ask to see your opponent's notes. That is why I did that. Also because I happen to be an extravert and I am literally incapable of writing notes to myself as opposed to someone else.

You're not understanding me BBT.
I'm asking you if Beck/Grib makes sense.
I'm asking you if Beck/fferyllt makes sense.
I'm asking you if Beck/Pine makes sense.
I'm asking you if Beck/Scripten makes sense.

Because guess what? None of these do. Beck/BBT also doesn't make sense. This is a

damn

good reason to townread someone if the game pretty much becomes nigh-impossible if they flip scum.
To not use all the tools at your disposal is daft.

[Mathdino]

Dude, I already told you. You and Grib seem to have this philosophy of "get other people to answer my questions, and don't answer theirs until they do" which makes for insanely annoying pages to read.

If Beck flips scum, I vote Pine, because Beck/Pine makes the most sense out of those 5 pairs.

And yes, you're being a hypocrite if you won't answer the question that you keep asking me.

[Mathdino]

Also, if you actually read my posts, you'd see how I came to that conclusion. Jussayin.

BBT, there's nothing wrong with working with your scumreads. Dismissing everything they say is dangerous if they end up being town; you have to pretty much start over.

Edit: Okay wow. Why can't you do that now? Why is 50 pages not enough information for you to come to a conclusion?

[Mathdino]

Beck, you got to L-1 because there were 3 other players voting you for the same reason BBT did.

BBT is not scum for tunneling. If he is scum, there are more aspects to this.

[Mathdino]

I'm using the question of what if you flip scum to prove that BBT is wrong about you. Indirect proof: If assuming the opposite of what you want to prove leads to a contradiction, then what you want to prove is true.

[Mathdino]

Beck, please explain why you aren't seeing Grib/BBT? For me, one of the few ways BBT's early push on Grib even makes sense as scum is if they were scum together. I'm having a hard time seeing scum going that far to pull a scumslip scenario out of their ass just to tunnel town.

Furthermore, BBT might've been hyper-aware of how his partner slipped based on the fact that he knows the information Grib got in his PM.

Regardless, don't want to lynch BBT today. Just trying to see where your BBT/Pine thing is coming from.

[Mathdino]

BBT is unwilling to lynch him.

[Mathdino]

BBT is unwilling to lynch him.

But you're not willing to lynch BBT?

This sense no maketh.

I actually drew a chart of this, haha. Draw a B, a G, a P, and an f in a square. Now draw connections between BG, GP, Gf, BP, and Pf.
Note that no matter what the scumteam is, it contains either Grib, Pine, or both. I still see the possibility of a Grib/Pine team, so lynching BBT would be a bad move.

[Mathdino]

An excellent line of questioning. Do you still beat your wife?

Regardless, if we're scum together, you won't have to worry since I'm lynching him if you flip town.

[Mathdino]

But a no would imply that I'm scum but NOT with Pine

[Mathdino]

get shot and flip town (in which case your power is moot)

The rest of your post is true. This part is not. I would prefer not to explain any more than this about my role.

Also, note that Beck is voting me already. The other vote on me was "RVS" from a lurker. So unless people come running back to suddenly vote me again, I'm not worried about being lynched before having a chance to claim. If I truly cannot survive Day 1 without having to claim, I will, but right now is not that time. A hard claim would make my power moot, so I'm trying to avoid that.

Hey Scripten, I forgot to ask you about this earlier. Are you willing to explain this now? You seemed extremely confident that you wouldn't get shot, but today you're chalking it up to Shaheed's Law.

[Mathdino]

Good luck, Beck.

Pine and fferyllt really need to come back. If y'all have nothing to talk about, thoughts on my commentary on the game would be appreciated.

[Mathdino]

Still iffy on BBT, scumteam could be Grib/Pine.

Why not Grib? We all seem to agree on him and no one's producing any new content. I might be swayed differently based on whatever fferyllt and Pine come up with, but if you want information (and for a lynch to even happen) Grib is our best bet.

[Mathdino]

Would be good with Pine if whatever he says when he comes back doesn't exude gigantic townvibes.

[Mathdino]

No, I decided I wanted more input on that and more conversation in the present before I go back and do that stuff. I doubt my issues with Grib, Pine, and BBT will change continuing on with that commentary, as with my townreads on Beck and Scripten. All that I can really get, IMO, is a better read on you, but you're not even on the table right now since from my perspective there

must

be scum in {Grib, Pine}.

[Mathdino]

self-awareness is an element of my character, not my play. Hatred of loaded questions is an element of my character, not my play.
And yes, thanks, you said you're cool with that lynch 10,000 times.

Beck/Scripten is dumb for reasons I pointed out earlier. Everything hinged on Beck not getting lynched yesterday and neither of them did anything to stop it (since if Beck got lynched, Scripten would have no one to 'confirm' him as town).

[Mathdino]

You understand that if we lynch you and you flip town, we'll be in LyLo.

Regardless, you have been active, and that's more than Pine can say. I think your last post gives slight townvibes, and like I said, I'm fine with either lynch.

UNVOTE: Grib
VOTE: Pine
Let's hope we're right on this.

[Mathdino]

Oh.

Math is hard.

[Mathdino]

Pine did the same thing. Honestly that's the main reason I'm not doing much, I wanna see what they have to say on the matters at hand.

[Mathdino]

Can't speak for others. PoE says there must be scum in {Grib, you}. As a consequence, I'd be fine with voting either. Out of policy, I'm more willing to vote you.

BBT's PoE absolutely sucks and I'm beginning to think he's the last scumpartner.

[Mathdino]

Grib is probably town though.

One of you and Math are scum.

This is PoE, BBT.
I seriously don't get why you continue to tunnel Beck when the game makes 0 sense with him flipping scum.

@Pine: See my wallpost if you want to see my reasons. Voting patterns have ruled out quite a bit of pairs, if you want to ask me about any specific pair, go ahead.
Basically, Beck's not scum with anyone, and BBT isn't scum with FinnLaw's slot. That means one of you and Grib is scum.

[Mathdino]

Remaining players are Scripten, Beck, BBT, Grib, Pine, fferyllt.

Scripten is practically confirmed town.
You look town on top of the game not making sense with you as scum.
BBT is not scum with Finn's slot. Finn's slot and by extension fferyllt only makes sense as scum with either Grib or Pine.

That's all it takes, haha.

[Mathdino]

I believe they already stated that he's not a neighbouriser.

Regardless, if you'll check back to the end of D1, I recall saying Scripten was probably town seeing what he was doing with me as a reaction test. He was in my townlist before Beck 'confirmed' him. It's just easier to say he's town due to his role than because ~reasons~.

What other flimsy reasons?

[Mathdino]

Beck and Grib voted together on multiple occasions, in some cases within a few posts of each other (240, 246).

FinnLaw changed his mind very fluidly and naturally when it came to Beck. fferyllt's posting on Beck doesn't ping, and she even pointed out a potential scumslip from him. This would be dumb if they were partners.

You already pointed out how you don't think Beck and I are partners.

Beck and Pine's interaction at 77 doesn't look like scum and scum. If you look at Pine's ISO, his peacekeeping when it came to Beck was very much not a scum/scum interaction. I admit this is more gut than not. However, the possibility of Beck/Pine still fits with my "one of Grib and Pine is scum".
Regardless of course, I've got a townread on Beck ALONG WITH all this.

Edit: My townread on Beck since my rereading of the game has very little to do with the Scripten issue.
Edit2: Okay, point them out.

[Mathdino]

Wow, I didn't think of that at all.

I might be persuaded to switch to a BBT lynch today actually. His Beck tunneling doesn't make any sense, along with the fact that he suddenly backed off of Grib once everyone wanted to vote him.

[Mathdino]

That's L-1.

Whether or not I'm comfortable voting BBT is dependent on how confident I am that fferyllt's town. So gimme a sec to look through her ISO and I'll see if I want to declare intent. No promises, still more comfortable with Grib or Pine.

[Mathdino]

BBT, make a quick post when you're online, I want to ask you some questions in real time.

[Mathdino]

BBT, you still here?

[Mathdino]

VOTE: BBT. You scum? If not let's hope AA9 takes her sweet time. 20 mins for last words if you're town.

[Mathdino]

How the hell was AA9 even online...

Anyway,

intent to hammer BBT.

Edit: Yeah :/

[Mathdino]

I'd like your current list of reads with explanation along with a flavour claim or a soft/hard roleclaim depending on what you want.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go through your and fferyllt's ISOs to be sure.

[Mathdino]

Got it, mod.
But seriously, how were you online? You're a friggin wizard...

Anyway, I'll wait for everyone else to check in. Would very much like ffery in here just in case she gets NK'd like she keeps predicting. Also Scripten.

[Mathdino]

Hey BBT, since your role PM has nothing to do with PRs, you willing to talk about your flavour and the little flavour paragraph thing the mod wrote for you?

[Mathdino]

BBT's flipflopping on me and shoehorning Pine into a scumread is beginning to give me doubts about this. His last word reads are just PoE? I'd have expected him to stay consistent I guess.

Why would he suddenly townread me just for the reaction test if he were scum?

[Mathdino]

[sarcasm]Guys, I think BBT is conftown for claiming VT.[/sarcasm]

[Mathdino]

Would it be a reasonable assumption from scum-BBT to assume that Grib and fferyllt wouldn't hammer him anyway?

[Mathdino]

That's an interesting observation.

It's good to sniff plants aswell though.

Yep. You got me.

Eating meat is pretty good.

Protein is yummy.

Hmm, I'm debating whether Grib has scum-slipped.

I think he has assumed that town can only be Herbivores based on the flavor intro from mod.

BBT's flavour claim is very important.
It explains all of the D1 Grib tunneling.
Pine might be the correct choice here.

[Mathdino]

Also, the fact that BBT didn't immediately reveal his flavour and point this out shows that 20 and 22 are probably legit related to his flavour.

Beck, thoughts?

[Mathdino]

Let's try this again.

Everyone vote for me. Kill me. Put a big fat bolded vote on me. Right now. I'm on everyone's Most Wanted list, so fucking act like it. Lynch me right now. And when I flip town, go after Mathdino, Pine, and fferyllt, assuming none of them get shot.

Takers?

Grib, you realise anyone could say this, right?

Me: When I flip town, go after Grib and Pine.
Pine: When I flip town, go after Grib and BBT.
BBT: When I flip town, go after Pine and Beck.
etc etc

Not cutting off discussion just yet.

Anyway, I think the only way BBT is possibly scum right now is if he were scum with Grib. Assuming Grib is town, the entire D1 push makes total sense given the flavour claim, and Grib is correct in that the sudden backing off of him D2 means he could've avoided all of this.

PoE makes Grib scum.

VOTE: Grib

@fferyllt: Yeah, I looked through your ISO; the majority of the content is in your catchup posts and after that your activity kinda went downhill fast.
I looked at your opinions of different players (ctrl+F'd Grib and Pine) and I noticed that you didn't talk about them nearly as much as the other players, so I suppose the possibility of being scum with them remains. That said, I think while you've done a lot more analysis than FinnLaw, he's done a lot more for your slot when it comes to seeming town, so I'm not gonna consider you as the correct lynch today.

[Mathdino]

The only way I can see BBT as scum now is as partners with you. Remember, my current suspects are BBT, you, Pine, and fferyllt. You I can see as scum with all of them.
Your lynch is not only extremely likely to hit scum but also information heavy. Before, you and Pine were equal, but now you're more likely.

Anyway,
UNVOTE:
Because I'm not comfortable with Grib at L-1 yet. Was mainly cool with BBT being there so I could do the reaction test.

[Mathdino]

Want more discussion, we have 4 days, I'm not sure everything that can be said has been said.

[Mathdino]

If I knew, Grib, I'd have said it by now. Pine appears to still be discussing things, so I want to let that happen without fear of A. you self-hammering, or B. someone derphammering.

[Mathdino]

This^

A significant majority of my games have had premature hammers by town.
Not doing that again.

[Mathdino]

I believe I already did. Back then, I was considering the possibility of BBT/Pine, and as such you and Grib were equivalent in terms of information and likelihood of hitting scum.
However, with the certainty in my mind that BBT can only be scum with Grib, slight townvibes won't outweigh the fact that he's almost certainly scum based on my chart.

[Mathdino]

We're lynching Grib or Pine today.

On the bright side, depending on what PRs we have, we might have more information by LyLo if we end up hitting town. Got a hard time believing the only PR is Scripten's whatever-the-hell-he-is.

[Mathdino]

And before you say BBT, just wanna note that Grib is townreading him and fferyllt wants to lynch Grib or Pine, and I'm not considering voting him right now without Grib's flip since basically all of D1 BBT's behaviour is now explained.

[Mathdino]

There are 3 votes on BBT. 1 more is required for a lynch. I'm not hammering him. Grib probably won't hammer a townread. And we already know who fferyllt wants to lynch. The only way BBT's getting lynched is as a compromise or deadline lynch.

[Mathdino]

Grib vs BBT

Pretty much originated from Grib seeming to think that carnivores are the scum and herbivores are town (which I wouldn't say is that far fetched, mostly), and BBT jumps and claims it's a scumslip because Grib assumed something based on the mod's intro. Now, this is dumb. However, both of them here seem to be in a confused town mindset. Grib then backs off a bit and says his dinosaur's personality "loathes the very existence of carnivores" and after I claim carnivorous town, says "If someone else confirms that Carnivores can be town I'll buy it".

BBT doesn't really expand on the scumslip theory, but the very fact that it makes no sense and seems more of a conspiracy type theory gives townpoints to BBT, since I think stretching it like this oftentimes comes from a townmindset than a scum one. This post exemplifies what I'm talking about. "He tried to give a townslip but I read it as a scumslip". Again, dumb theory, but from a town mindset.

Now see, this case by Grib on BBT is also dumb, in essence, calling BBT scum for tunneling. But at the same time, it's not dumb in the "I've got this crazy conspiracy theory" sense, it's dumb in the "Look at this guy's dumb arguments, let's lynch him for it!" sense. Looks bad. BBT then continues to tunnel Grib but one of the good points he made was here, referencing Grib associating BBT and Beck. Funnily enough, this gives me the feeling that Grib/BBT is possible and Grib was trying to line up a lynch on a townie after getting cred from bussing. BBT's harebrained theories above actually make sense if he's stretching to attempt to bus. Will keep this in mind.

Okay this post after BBT switches to Beck is laughable and also a bit weird. It's like Grib is asking BBT to tunnel him again.
[...]

The Scripten Wagon

What even happened here... Okay so Scripten asks for votes on Pine, BBT joins him, at which point insanity, Grib, and Beck all jump on Scripten, forcing him to softclaim. I think it goes without saying that BBT and Grib are the strangest aspects of this (Finn had his vote parked on Scripten from a while ago). But while BBT already had issues with Pine, Grib's participation was definitely off, especially when asked to provide reasons, saying Scripten's naked vote wasn't what made him join the wagon, yet "In fact, it actually helped a little". Then after the softclaim, Grib heads back to BBT. To actually listen to the thoughts of the dead, insanity states here that it's likely scum was involved, and comes to the conclusion that Grib's vote was indeed fishy (how validating).

I stand by my statement afterward that he's probably backing off town-you today so he doesn't get you to tunnel him again.

[Mathdino]

Beck, who is BBT's scumpartner?

[Mathdino]

Intent to hammer.

[Mathdino]

It looks like we're pretty much done here.

My condolences, fferyllt.

[Mathdino]

See, I could see ffeey/BBT now. Not many associatives between Grib and BBT, they're independently scummy.

Still prefer Grib, but I endorse a deadline BBT lynch

I feel like this is trying to leave the lynchpool open for someone other than yourself if Grib flips town.

[Mathdino]

I think scum have fakeclaims.

[Mathdino]

If you're town, Pine is scum, especially given that last post.

Furthermore it makes (IMO) BBT town, despite people repeatedly attempting to see BBT as scum with Pine and fferyllt.

[Mathdino]

No.

I'm going to use the last day of discussion to talk about your claim. Because both your and BBT's claims explain the early-D1 shitstorm.

I know AA9 has given out fakeclaims before; I checked her games.

The question is whether both of you would immediately start roleplaying them.

[Mathdino]

I think the scum are going to be T-Rex and Velociraptor. All claims and dinosaurs so far have been (relatively) docile, and my flavour supports this.

Now, if Grib was given a fakeclaim that said he despised carnivores and omnivores, the flavour of his scumteam would back that up, which would definitely cause what happened on the first page.

Hmm.

[Mathdino]

I don't know. I have a fleeting memory of finding a game of hers and looking through the scum QT to see a really good fakeclaim. And I posted earlier saying something like that.

I'll go find it.

[Mathdino]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/MMHX6TnXeAT

^The mafia QT for Narnia Mafia. Someone was given the fakeclaim of Tumnus the Tracker.

[Mathdino]

@mod: Are scum given pre-game chat? Are scum given daytalk?

I'm looking through page 1 and I'm finding it less than believable that these guys are both scum roleplaying their flavour.

[Mathdino]

Honestly, I want to run up Pine right now since Grib's behaviour at L-1 is pretty townish, but the problem is scum know enough roles as it is assuming no one fakeclaimed VT. It's already pretty odd that everyone except Scripten has flipped or claimed VT so far.

Edit: Dammit Beck.

[Mathdino]

I think we need to do a mass flavourclaim.

[Mathdino]

Beck
Scripten
Pine
fferyllt

,

What are your thoughts on a mass flavour claim?

[Mathdino]

Scratch Beck he already claimed.

[Mathdino]

If we do, I'd like the order to be
Pine, Mathdino, fferyllt, Scripten,
In order of people wanting to lynch them.
Also a description of the little flavour paragraph mod gave us.

[Mathdino]

If Stegosaurus and Triceratops aren't PRs, I don't know what to tell you.

[Mathdino]

I don't know yet. I think it might help work out the flavour issues we had a while back, along with confirming my hypothesis that T-Rex and Raptor are scum (if no one claims those, they prolly are, especially since the Spino was scum).

This would mean scum would know that the scum consist of carnivores, and unless they were given a carnivorous fakeclaim, might give them the impression that they're out to get carnies.

[Mathdino]

I'll go ahead just in case Pine doesn't check in.

I'm Compsognathus, Compy. According to AA9 I'm adorable. I'm a carnivore without blood thirst and I eat bugs and lizards and other shit.

[Mathdino]

This actually kind of surprised me considering they killed Dieter and the poor little girl in the 2nd movie, haha.

Edit: Okay, cool. Still in line with hypothesis.

I know it's not so great to 2nd guess the mod but I feel like Pteranodon would be the worst fakeclaim ever, considering they were like one of the most dangerous dinos in the 3rd movie. Feeling like fakeclaims would be more docile.

Edit: NOT A DINOSAUR, BROTHER

[Mathdino]

Wow Pine's claim is impressive, props to AA9.
also omg jack horner that's awesome

Okay so I'm going with Velociraptor and Dilophosaurus as scum since I really can't see a way they WOULDN'T be eating other dinosaurs in JP context.

Since we already did get through the massclaim contrary to Grib and Pine's thoughts, and since AA9 doesn't seem to be around, I'll go ahead and
VOTE: Grib
Should still have a bit of twilight left.

You scum?

[Mathdino]

Can confirm, Pine/fferyllt is the way to go. Especially with how Pine tried to re-link BBT and fferyllt.

[Mathdino]

How the hell is BBT still scum in light of town-Grib...

Anyway can you talk a bit about your current read on Scripten independent of him being a PR?

[Mathdino]

Yes, Pine and fferyllt aren't both scum because setup spec.

This is making me seriously worried.

Furthermore, Beck was killed while threatening to vote BBT out of the gate, which would essentially spell immediate doom for the town and scum would have to be idiots to not leave them both alive if they were both town.

[Mathdino]

It's LyLo so I'll just go ahead and spell it out.
Scripten's a PR, prob Neighborizer.
BBT claimed VT.
I claim VT.
Pine and fferyllt are friggin T-Rex and Pteranodon. Unless someone here is lying, or unless the mod decided to make us go up against 2 scum with nothing but a neighborizer, one of Pine and fferyllt is a town PR and I'm guessing the other is scum.

[Mathdino]

This essentially means our two LyLos are gonna have to be 1v1s between me and BBT, and Pine and fferyllt. The scum in {Pine, fferyllt} would have to be idiotic to not claim a PR.

The alternative is they're both town, Scripten was lying all along and is scum with BBT. In that case though, we've lost already.

Because I want to get thoughts on this, I'm not gonna step out the gate with a BBT vote. But I'm 95% sure he's scum at this point.

[Mathdino]

All results of the past few nights, now.

The fact that you didn't provide that makes me really think your claim is fishy/opportunistic.

[Mathdino]

Oh yeah derp never mind.

Your role makes perfect sense given your flavour. That said, the game I used as proof AA9 has fakeclaims had scum with one of the fakeclaims being Tumnus, town tracker.

Hmm.

Edit: Ninja'd. Cool, so you're not making up the claim by yourself.
No one would blame you if you voted BBT ya know. At LEAST one of you two is scum.

Edit: dammit pine stop ninjaing
t-rexes are not silent creatures

Edit: Oh fuck.

[Mathdino]

Scripten you have no idea how scummy that vote is. I expect town-you to be far more cautious about this.

Because I want to be sure on you, can you hardclaim now and provide night actions? There's not much point withholding that at this point.

[Mathdino]

Just wanted to be sure.

Did you want your target to claim that they were neighborized?

[Mathdino]

Actually never mind that was dumb, if you're scum that still means we have a serious issue with balance.

Unvote, Scripten, at least wait for the other two.

[Mathdino]

What makes you SO sure his claim's fake?

[Mathdino]

Nah, he's not playing dumb. Not thinking it's LyLo makes sense.

UNVOTE SCRIPTEN OR WE LOSE

[Mathdino]

Love how Pine has his vote on BBT right out of the gate.

It's not like this day is gonna end with anything other than a Pine or BBT lynch... BBT's move right now would be voting Pine.

[Mathdino]

Pine. I'd have gone with Pine before his PR claim.

Right now I'm going with BBT since I'm now 99% sure Pine/fferyllt aren't scum together due to balance.

[Mathdino]

What were her night actions and results?

Did she claim before I predicted one of them was a PR?