Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[Team 9]

VOTE: team 9

why do i get the feeling that you're going to be the scum mvp by endgame

Is that an invitation for 2v1?
Because I'm ready to win.

[Team 9]

jfc and you say I'm beating a dead horse

Oh I meant to ask this long time ago but I never got to.
What's your read on Sakura?

[Team 9]

2v3, actually.

so we're the real underdogs here, babe

I meant 2v1 as (Bulge/you) vs (me).
But if you want to count it that way, it's 3v3 and it's a fair fight.

[Team 9]

Sakura is more stubborn and repeats the same thing over and over and over and over.

That's most likely because your points are not being communicated well. And do you know why? Because all you respond to those posts are "that's not what I said/what I meant."
Well, that's not enough. You need to show us in which way it is wrong for us to assume our logic.

Also let me remind you this. So we, you, and Sakura have been in a great logic fuckery of doom for past like what, 10+ pages? Have you realized that besides you, NONE of them called me or Sakura out for us twisting your words. Hell, even Bins "misrep'd" your post about the towntell->scumtell. They only yelled "BULGE IS TOWN OMG" because of the extreme amount of frustration you're showing in this game, which I take it as a null since the frustration by miscom is not alignment-indicative.

[Team 9]

i don't like pie this game
and liking pie is what town pie is all about to me

Pie does turn cold if it stays in a freezer.

Do I look like pie to you?

[Team 9]

also "town pie"
this pie is being mean
that's not town pie

marquis, please be town

I have a few questions:

first off, did you and Majiffy really get such a huge town read on Bulge from the like 5 posts after he replaced in that you thought "no way, pie is scum and/or might as well be scum"? if so, why?

second, why does it feel like you're alienating yourself from me right from the get go? from what I can tell, you entered the thread, didn't interact with me at all, immediately town read Bulge, and you haven't engaged me and are not planning on even considering my argument against Bulge. this isn't what I was expecting from you at all and it makes me sad.

also, where was I being mean?

-Rumia

[Team 9]

btw I'm not confbiasing this game. I'm actually playing this without my usual all-aggro-all-the-time style

-Rumia

[Team 9]

ok so sakura's reasons for townreading this are wrong too if that's the case

also, if you haven't read the thread, why are you assuming Sakura's reasons for townreading me are wrong? there were plenty of reasons to townread me before you replaced in. again, it feels like you're alienating yourself from me and it makes me sad.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

i don't know about majiffy's read on bulge but he and i both agree thesp/titus has to be scum

fwiw, I have thesp/titus-slot as null. Bulge is also a consensus read for both of us (not just GIF's read).

you have to understand that i have commonly been in the same situation as bulge (think aa:mfa and other things) including with the same players in some situations and he is reacting exactly the way i have reacted as town

i am not considering the arguments against bulge because i trust my read on and synchronization with bulge enough to put that first

the thing I can't wrap my head around is you supposedly haven't actually seen the arguments against Bulge, since you haven't read the thread yet. you've apparently got such a strong townread you're automatically discounting any possible argument for Bulge scum (correct me if I'm wrong) and have already stated you're not going to read back through the thread and check. that's the part about this that's making me sad and paranoid you're actually scum

tangent: in AA:MFA I still consider you were obvtown, but no one in the game knew how to read you right. this is bc your actions and motivations in that game came from a town POV and everyone overlooked that bc you were on-the-surface scummy. plus, the only reason you even got ran up is because scum claimed a guilty on you, as opposed to in-thread play. however, I don't believe this is the case with Bulge - his actions and motivations here are different for several reasons. but anyway:

talk to me about what in Bulge's recent posting you think is that town. I'm not trying to get your vote at this point, I just wanna know what your thought process is bc I don't see where such a strong townread can come from.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

again this keeps feeling like [redacted] because it's just digging the tunnel deeper into the realm of confbiasing and "well we have the wagon already, might as well use everything to support what i've already said and not consider any other possible scenarios because good job guys this lynch is

locked in

"

I'm the one early in this game who broke the sakura/tn tunnel war by making them consider any other possible scenarios. Do you seriously think i haven't considered other possibility while I was on the bulge?

Throughout my push on him me and pieguy always paused time to time to see if our reasoning is going to the wrong direction, talked about if bulge's posts could be coming from town and if it can come from town with which mindset could it come from, etc. That's why we were always on sync when we were pushing him even though the speed of the push was very fast. I would c/p the entire damn conversation with pie if mod would allow that and show everyone our effort and dare them to prove our reasoning wrong.

We are already aware that the bulge is having trouble with communicating his points.
We are aware that he is most likely to misinterpret our posts and we are also most likely to misinterpret his. We are are also aware that the bulge's rage is very likely to be genuine. However, rage coming from miscommunication is hardly a town-rage. That kind of rage happens regardless of alignment and I'm keep feeling like you guys are just going "omg bulge is town" because of that genuine rage alone. And honestly, that frustrates me greatly. Also I once thought if this is happening because bulge's english is not very good. But he's Canadian. He should be good with English. So then what am I doing wrong? Is my English too bad to properly communicate my opinion to him? Afaik, when I speak, people understand. So I don't think that's a problem. Then where is it going wrong? I know. If bulge would actually TELL ME which posts I am "misreping", then I'll know!

Also, take a look at the bulge's posts so far. "That's not what I said." "That's not what I meant." Well how the hell do I know what he actually meant when that's all he said as every damn time and said assay nothing else? I even threw a recap time to time to show him what I was talking about and he just calls it flawed and.... that's it. Well I'm pretty sure that's not how mafia works and unless the bulge is a complete newbie, he knows that that's not how mafia works too. That's one of the reason why I think he is scum. I think he is deliberately avoiding addressing them by using a "ooh misrep" card. I honestly still don't know how the misunderstanding about the validity of my hypothetical scenario leads to his post calling that I scumread those three names because lurking. When I ask him to explain he just yells "OMG IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING OK???" Well guess what. It doesn't explain it. Few pages ago, when I asked him to clarify what he meant about distancing stuff he changed his words on (hell I didn't even accused him for it this time.) He just goes "MISREP" and when I quoted it for him, he goes like "OMG DONT QUOTE THAT". Well, what the fuck? What am I supposed to think of that? Am I supposed to treat that response as town? If town, what kind of mindset can it ever come from? I literally have zero fucking clue. So it is natural for me to think that the response is probably from scum. "Caught scum flailing." Yeah that explains it pretty well.

"Oh team 9 is tunneling on the bulge" Well fuck them. They didn't even try to tell us why our points are wrong. Hell, for an example, ns even said that he doesn't disagree with us yet called bulge town for "lolsheepbins" and even dared to bring up the vote bet which I take very seriously. I am being labeled as a fucking tunneler when they don't even bother with the points I'm making. At least, when I broke sakura/tn tunnel, I gave them a reason why they should reconsider. I'm not one of those people who goes "but but" after my points gets satisfyingly disproven. I am always willing to talk, discuss, and argue. But what is this shit? Not saying shit when I progress on my push on him only to frame me as some mindless tunneler. FROM MY FUCKING TOWNREADS. Do you know how that feels like? It feels like I'm being stabbed on my back by my family. It feels very bitter and betraying. I am literally shedding tears as I'm writing this piece of my mind.

So this is my ultimatum/final reachout or whatever. You think I'm wrong? Then help me see the right way. Address my posts and explain them to me how those posts can come from town and more likely to come from town. Address the contradictions I mentoned and explain them to me how they are actually not a contradiction and I was missing some obvious points. Otherwise,

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STAY OUT OF MY DAMN WAY

This has been GIF posting, with teardrops of mixed feelings of disappointment, frustration, betrayal, and just pure sadness. Thank you for reading my humble rambling.

-Cirno

[Team 9]

I prefer white pls.

[Team 9]

team 9 hydra tunnels on bulge
i like bulge's responses to tunneling
i do not like hydra's attitude toward bulge
i decide to not want to interact with hydra much yet
you are part of hydra
i do not want to interact with you much yet
talk to majiffy
peace out

ok let me get a few things straight here

1. we are not tunneling. if you had actually took the time to read the thread, or even tried to look through our ISO at all, you would know this

2. GIF just said we are not tunneling, and, as I said, if you were legitimately trying to sort us, you could easily look and find it out. however, your reaction to that was to completely blow it off. why?

3. I have already said I am not trying to convince you. rather, the point of the question was so that I could get a read on you. I fail how to see how you can supposedly have such a large townread on Bulge based on his posts immediately when you replaced in, to the point where when us, Sakura, and other people directly link back to the arguments made against Bulge (all of which were before you replaced in), you outright say you don't care about anything that happened before you replace in and that your read on him is that strong already.

so, if you're town, please walk me through why you immediately decided so confidently Bulge is town. ignoring me is not an option, whether you like it or not

4. us, Sakura, and other ppl have all linked to evidence for Bulge-scum all of which were before you replaced in. what is the purpose in discarding it, just because "I'm not reading anything before I replaced in"? if you think Bulge is town, it should not be hard to comment on where we went wrong with our argument.

as GIF said, we have sat around forever trying to figure out where we went wrong and we can't find any - so I challenge you to find one bc both of us are feeling v confident about this.

I want to believe you're town, but this is ridiculous. there so many off notes with you and you just entered the game. you ignoring me when I'm trying to get a read on you isn't helping, and I will not accept "lolhydra" as an excuse.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

ITT: Marquiffy is a jerk.

I think he's just scum

I wanna see his response to my questions before necessarily solidifying the read. there's a pattern I'm noticing about his play (which he's done in just about every post here) which I think he'll break sooner or later if he's actually town.

atm I think {Bulge, 22, Gaiden} are most likely to be scum. even if this angle with 22 turns out to be a dead end, we have a lot of townreads of varying degrees elsewhere

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Team 9's case started off being about inactivity, and then turned nasty when Bulge made a mistake, retracted it, and then screwed up an explanation of the retraction. I don't think it's my place to repair the issue, but I'm not convinced at all by Team 9's argument. Lack of eloquence doesn't necessarily equal scumminess.

this is not how our case went at all

the first point was not inactivity, but the way he acted while he actually was here: doing nothing (my point)

the next point was, after we said we had a POE scumread on him, the way he was using his lack of content as a shield from suspicion (both me and GIF's point). this is completely different from the fact that he was inactive. I think you're either remembering wrong and/or misinterpreting our posts.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

But my point is that he was not here. You're saying he was doing nothing during a time when he wasn't even here.

We have never said the bulge Is scum for not doing anything. In fact, we called him out for him trying to call our reasoning for initial scumread on him as that. (Remember the PoE?)

[Team 9]

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic

Well this whole thing is wrong here bc as I said I don't have them as scum because they're lurking but rather it is coincidental that my "non-townreads" happen to be lurkers bc I have a varying degrees of town on everyone else, hence my emphasis on "PoE".

See?

[Team 9]

But my point is that he was not here. You're saying he was doing nothing during a time when he wasn't even here.

no, the point with that was he made like 7 or 8 posts while he was V/LA. and none of them had anything in them

by itself, it wasn't a strong point nor was it intended to be (I just mentioned it bc it was the first thing I picked up on re: Bulge). but regardless, it still doesn't have any effect on the 2nd point which is where the real case started: the part where he started using his lack of content as a shield once we announced we had a POE scumread on him

-Rumia

[Team 9]

ninja'd by GIF gg

-Rumia

[Team 9]

What kind of "not doing anything" are we talking about here?
As in inactiveness or as in contentlessness?

Dave seems to speak about inactiveness. I talked about inactiveness. Pie talked about contentless.
This need to be clarified before this doesn't end up wrong.

[Team 9]

The PoE should have been addressed anyways. Because the townreads were not explained which led to the PoE. They needed to be.

Then why didn't anyone addressed it when it was first mentioned?
Why didn't you?
That stuff was supposed to come up the moment I just the word PoE.

[Team 9]

I've never seen you mentioning it until now.

[Team 9]

Also, contentless != inactivity.
Is it really too hard for people to differentiate between them or are you guys testing my mental strength?

[Team 9]

It frustrates you?! It frustrates me! It drives me insane.

IF YOU THINK OUR RELATIONSHIP HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT YOU'VE FINALLY LOST IT.

I think I've lost it.
It's apparent that you were always overreacting when the bulge was being called scum long before this whole "team 9 tunnels the bulge" business.
You call me I'm "confbiasing", I tell you get out of your "friendbias".

If you can explain which part I've misunderstood and why it needs to be understood differently, then I'll be waiting for it. Because I can't explain them myself, and apparently the bulge can't either.

But first, drop "bulge is my friend" mindset. It doesnt matter if you deny it when it is clearly shown in your posts. And then explain those points to me without showing any type of bias. If you can do that, I will analyze them while dropping any kind of read I have on him. If it's convincing enough, I'm always ready to concede and drop the point on spot.

[Team 9]

1. Team 9, is your read on me still PoE? If not, can you present a short point-form list similar to mine against you?

No it no longer isn't otherwise I wouldn't be going this far to see you get lynched.

Short points, sure.

Gaps in your logical progression / thought progress in your posts that can't be explained.

I'm pretty sure a lot about my posts can be condensed to this one sentence, because almost every points of mine stems from this or a variant of this.

I would give my thoughts progression from this and show how it connects to my points, but I'm pretty sure even if I take my time doing so people will just end up strawmanning my points and call "ooh team 9 is calling him scum for inactiveness during V/LA."

[Team 9]

Bins defending me because our relationship seems to make sense. But have you seen her when I've been scum? Bins will either hard-defend me or tunnel me hard. And she is

always

right. People always point out that she's defending me, but seriously, I'm terrified of being scum in a game with Bins. Trust me when I say she will not hesitate for one second to push for my lynch.

The counterpoint of this that at this point you probably already know what she's looking for. If you know what she looks for, it's not that hard to imitate them and grab some ally who will spend all their life whiteknighting you.

[Team 9]

And that's why nobody ever try to read me when I'm in a hydra.
I'm too hard for them to read me when I most probably know what they look in my posts. Instead, people just read my partner who is most of the time infinite times more easier to read.

[Team 9]

Also short talk about a PoE.
If someone asks me to explain why and how I read my townreads town when I posted my PoE list, I can explain every one of them except for varsoon, who I'm reading by a gut because he just can't be read with a logic.

[Team 9]

I thought pie asked that question, not me.
But if I did, then I probably asked for curiosity.

[Team 9]

The difference there is "experience".
I've townread him, scumread him, misread him, and fooled by him during my history with Varsoon and the method of reading him was formed with trial and error.
In case of Gaiden, well, I don't have much experience on him. (Nor I cared to read him)

[Team 9]

(Nor I cared to read him)

To clarify, my previous games with Gaiden.

[Team 9]

ill leave. She cam stay. Sorry.

Man up you scrub
Sakura already replaced out and she's not coming back.
If you truly feel sorry repent by carrying this game for sake of her.

[Team 9]

Why is everyone thinking that the reads can never change from PoE.

[Team 9]

Like, you get so many townreads and rest of the playerlist turns to a scumread via PoE. And then the "rest of the playerlist" Suddenly do something super town or one of the townreads do something incredibly scummy. The read changes to reflect on those actions. PoE reads are not definite, guys. It is a flexible read just like any other reads.

[Team 9]

You're making one right now.
(#rekt?)

[Team 9]

sakura /hug

[Team 9]

Also Bins there are some people who are actually good at PoE if they get the chance

yes, and empirically speaking, I am one of them

NY169 - posted a correct townlist of like 10 ppl sometime on D1. then, late game, figured out there were only 4 scum bc I had townreads on everyone besides Nacho scum
touhou 2 - only one I townread was zmuffin and, even while I had a townread on him, he never made it past the bottom part of my townlist
tales of you - after I got mastin lynched I had the entire scumteam sans Nacho POE'd. my first post in the dead QT was literally me calling the 3 scum that weren't Nacho
any other towngame I play - I generally use POE and get to the right conclusion with it.

so, do you really want to atone for making Sakura replace out? THEN PLEASE JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF OUR WAY AND SHEEP US INSTEAD OF ACTIVELY DISCREDITING US. remember touhou 2 where we absolutely cleaned house until I got lolkilled on N1? you have already said you can't find a problem with our argument and are just lol sheeping Bins. so, if you want to make up for it, and make up for Sakura replacing out, please just do me this favor and sheep us instead.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

you were rambling on and on in the mason QT about how I should keep double checking your townreads bc you were putting friends in your town bloc and not questioning your townreads enough. that's not how you do POE at all. #rekt

if you want my opinion, you're doing the same thing here. your entire read of Bulge is based on Bins, even though you said you can't find anything wrong with our arguments

please just do me this one favor. I'm rapidly losing motivation for this game

-Rumia

[Team 9]

GIF has gut-town on Varsoon

I haven't questioned it. he's very good at gut reading Varsoon

-Rumia

[Team 9]

thank you. <3

/hug

that's L-1

[Team 9]

no. he's prob town. one thing I remember was that his push on Bins came across as genuine. another thing I liked was his explanation back in like post 400 something where he was naturally inclined to trust our reads

-Rumia

[Team 9]

there's a lot more but that's all I can remember bc I can hardly think about this game ATM

-Rumia

p-edit: ninja'd

[Team 9]

if, after eliminating Bulge, one of your townreads it's wrong it's 22. we townread everyone else in your townlist besides Bert and we're waiting to see what he does

iirc GIF is "unsure" on 22. however, as long as Marquis continues ignoring me (even discounting all the things wrong I've seen from him so far) I can't townread him.

I'm not sure where you're going with this

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Bert will get apathetic if he's scum.

I can agree with this

our POE pool atm is something like {Bulge, 22, Gaiden, Bert} with thesp-slot as a distant 5th, and I can't see Thesp as scum with Bulge. oh also GIF said Varsoon is our default backup scumread in case we fucked one of our townreads.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh just to clarify, the line between POE reads and actual scumreads is in between Bulge and 22

at this point we have a scumread on Bulge, and then townreads of varying degrees on everyone besides the other 4, leaving them as POE. although I kind of like Thesp's posting recently

[Team 9]

oh also GIF said Varsoon is our default backup scumread in case we fucked one of our townreads.

Shhhhhh you're not supposed to say this out loud

[Team 9]

*sigh*

I'm not posting in here for the rest of today.
I don't have enough sanity left to deal with this shit no more.
I need a break.

[Team 9]

Wait what?

im calling out the scum team right now.

22 scum
team 9 scum
tn(5421) prob last scum

i refuse to vote bins

Ika hates numbers.
Discuss.

[Team 9]

@Bins

oh just to clarify, the line between POE reads and actual scumreads is in between Bulge and 22

at this point we have a scumread on Bulge, and then townreads of varying degrees on everyone besides the other 4, leaving them as POE. although I kind of like Thesp's posting recently

[Team 9]

hey team9 question, do you mind a cop checking you?

Yes. I am currently discussing with pieguy about how to somehow fit a miller claim in this setup.

Can you explain your townread on Flubber?

His post in general plus I liked his early posts.

[Team 9]

@Bins

Three page rvs? Someone either needs to get naked, or fuck shit up via wagon.

VOTE: notscience

Vote: Empress Titus

Let's vote for greater justice.

Yes. Let's continue rvs onto page fucking 6.

VOTE: start

I liked the attitude of these posts. "You gotta fucking kidding me man, move the game forward please". Also, he didn't just sat there whining about it and instead went on and try to fix the prolonged RVS. That felt very town to me.

I also liked the direction of what he looks for and what to call out such as

390 has my eye on Team 9 now.

why?

-Rumia

I have no reads from the threat to replace out. Yours are weak and you've even admitted it. But you still want to give tn room. Meanwhile tn continues on this whole fluff rant while still trying to prove everything is fluff instead of pushing for reads. And the room you're giving him is just making him defensive. Maybe you're onto something, but if you're not, I'm scum reading your defense.

And his back-and-forth with you I didn't feel any scumBS in there either.
And constant activity despite this game's pace is also a plus.

Pie might have something more to say if he feels like it so he can chime in on this too.

[Team 9]

You're asking for Team 9's reads on anyone else in this game but me and expecting an answer?

Here's someone who hasn't been reading.

[Team 9]

Flubber, what's your read on the Bulge and view of the Team 9/Bulge interaction? I don't remember you specifically stating it.

That's another reason I felt... off about him. Will let him answer the question first before I get into it, but I liked your points... I feel like I had similar. But do you have anything more... recent that contributes to your read of him?

Why yes.
But I bet you won't like it when I present it.

[Team 9]

Oh also there's one about Flubber's snark doesn't feel like a scum-snark but rather town-snark.

[Team 9]

@Bins: It has something to do with this post.

<

Tn. Gun to your head. Who is the scum team if Sakura is town?

Bulge probably scum.

Flubber maybe scum. You maybe scum.

why the fk

Considering this game so far, laying low is the best plan for scum while everyone else tears each other apart.

I'm V/LA.

How V/LA are you if you managed to catch that from this gargantuan thread?

Other than that, tn, can you explain your reads on me? Your read on bulge shows you're tunneling pretty bad, but I honestly don't know whether to see it as a scum tunnel or town tunnel.

[Team 9]

Maybe Flubber's just snarky. Ever played with him?

Could be but usual scum-snark feels more intimidating and daunting.

[Team 9]

Flubber, what's your read on the Bulge and view of the Team 9/Bulge interaction? I don't remember you specifically stating it.

That's another reason I felt... off about him. Will let him answer the question first before I get into it, but I liked your points... I feel like I had similar. But do you have anything more... recent that contributes to your read of him?

Why yes.
But I bet you won't like it when I present it.

...he says as he flounders in his hydra QT to prepare meaningful content about somebody who is not named "The Bulge"

Pft QT
I ditched that thing last year.

[Team 9]

notscience actually replaced Sakura and ika replaced ns

What's the difference?
They're both town.

[Team 9]

Yes, that's usually why you townread someone. Why do you like his posts?

in addition to all of GIF's points (which I agree with):

"Maybe you're onto something, but if you're not, I'm scum reading your defense."

Think of it this way. The players in this hydra probably have a lot more experience with mafia than I do, and that in part makes me want to trust what I'm interpreting to be a gut read. However, my trust is partly an appeal to authority, and weak as a result. So I don't want to get to attached to GIF.

And I'm not sure how not immediately commenting on tn's fluff bullcrap when there's plenty of people already doing that for the town is an issue. Anything I picked out would have just been a circle jerk with you and Sakura.

And I can only vote for one scum read at a time, geez.

I liked this response to my questioning for a few reasons:

1. his entire read progression during this whole thing read as newb-town who wasn't sure what to do. he's naturally inclined to trust who he perceives as experienced - but then they do something he doesn't understand at all and now he has to question if they're just scum or if it's just him not understanding our point.

2. he's 100% accurate that there was way too much focus on fluff. as GIF said, his attitude where he tries to cut through all the fluff read as town.

3. the last line is correct. the only reason I even called him out for that in the first place was I kept forgetting what his reads were and I thought he was voting on a wagon he didn't think was scum - I usually never call ppl out for where their vote is bc generally ppl's votes do not need to necessarily match whoever they're questioning. I strongly believe in this principle and he was 100% right to correct me on it.

I like his push on you a lot even though I disagree with it. I haven't read too much into it, but what I do remember read as genuine. there's nothing cautious about it, which I'd find impressive if he was scum bc driving my pushes through is smth I still have a lot of trouble faking, and I haven't noticed anything that indicates he doesn't believe any of the angles he's pushing.

Bins you also come off as more genuine than the people you're accusing of doing the same thing as you. Startfromtheheart for example, just comes off as a really bad troll.

Bins you also come off as more genuine than the people you're accusing of doing the same thing as you. Startfromtheheart for example, just comes off as a really bad troll.

Being... geniune... is... bad?

Genuinely scum? Yes.

I actually quite liked this angle. it's a really weird angle to even push, but I can still see what his thought process was (he believes you lack content for real, scum-motivated reasons, as opposed to Bert who trolls every game regardless of what his alignment is) and I buy that he believes it. this one is heavily gut-based, YMMV

I especially agree with GIF's point about how he's keeping his activity up and still able to follow all the major events of the game. despite not necessarily having a lot of posts, he's been here for most of the things that have happened, given his opinions, and commented on them in a way that makes me think he's legitimately trying to game solve - I can provide examples of everything I liked if you want, but just for a recent example, see his response to 22 where he asks for their input before providing his.

-Rumia

fuck

-Rumia

[Team 9]

So I have some reads that I am feeling really damn good about.

Anyone want to tell me where "Elaboration 101" is held? Apparently they didn't put it on my schedule last year.

I have a few questions. first off, I know you think Thesp is scum, but who do you think the other scum on the Bulge wagon are?

second, how much have you and Marquis talked with each other about your collective read on us?

also, remind Marquis to answer my questions when he gets back

-Rumia

[Team 9]

if the were town they would have no fear of a cop checking them

I think you're adorable too but Titus does it better.

[Team 9]

If DOC 1 ever dies, then DOC 2 starts protecting the cop and the cop stops announcing his cop targets.
EZ PZ.

If a doctor dies, the cop becomes macho.

[Team 9]

You scum, Varsoon? srs question

[Team 9]

And what if 22 is cop and he can't check himself?

Your laziness is silly.

[Team 9]

I'm pretty sure that "civilian" means "town."

[Team 9]

p-edit: so your claiming to be a non-civilian team 9?

Welp what else can I say now?

I'm a macho doctor and I hate you all for making me PR slip.

[Team 9]

Also I guess that means rip follow the cop.
Boohoo.

[Team 9]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Team 9]

you could of at least claimed cop for WIFOM but whatever

Claiming other role than my role after PR slipping will only bring a counterclaim and end up outing even more PRs, silly.

[Team 9]

Hey bert did you know that your collective is terrible and you are voting a doctor right now?

[Team 9]

Why TheSp over Bulge?

Titus' play of appeasement.
Thesp's play of discrediting.
Bulge's low-casework, low-resistance wagon.
etc.

Well honestly, I would follow ika-town's read on Titus.
I've seen him catching Titus-scum easily with my own eyes. What was that game called, Street Racers LV or something?

[Team 9]

So do I get to direct cop today?
Because I'm gonna ask him to check Varsoon.

[Team 9]

Well you had 22 scum with an associate to us. You should probably start over on reading them.

[Team 9]

This is a list of reads I have right now

without leniency

. (Which means no gut, no weak reasoning, and my townreads have 99.5% chance to be correct.)

tn5421
ika
Team 9
davesaz
Flubbernugget
notscience
Bins

========================

Thesp
22
Varsoon
SXTLHGaiden
startfromtheheart
The Bulge

[Team 9]

No the cop doesn't claim.
I'm a designated kill tonight and outing cop now will just give scum a free cop kill N2.

[Team 9]

lol no you guys should just eat a lynch

[Team 9]

(<3)

[Team 9]

That's Majiffy I think.

[Team 9]

Also 29 more pages to beat Open 512.

[Team 9]

So scum, if you want to see this game past 129 pages you'll need to keep me alive for an extra day.

[Team 9]

bump

[Team 9]

So scum, if you want to see this game past 129 pages you'll need to keep me alive for an extra day.

512 day 1 was 129???


Fook

Oh I thought you mean the whole game size.

[Team 9]

Well screw you all
Dem fast posts just ate my post.

[Team 9]

We know it so hard.

Press the back button.

Well I was just gonna say that we need 7 more pages to reach the longest d1 in open.

[Team 9]

No the cop doesn't claim.
I'm a designated kill tonight and outing cop now will just give scum a free cop kill N2.

So you soak tonight's kill (probably)
Cop doesn't claim ever,
How do we know who the cop Innos are?

I'm pretty sure our cop will crumb the innos/claim the guilty.

[Team 9]

Does that have something to do with "mafia goon" sitting in your role PM?

[Team 9]

flubber

[Team 9]

@Bins

Three page rvs? Someone either needs to get naked, or fuck shit up via wagon.

VOTE: notscience

Vote: Empress Titus

Let's vote for greater justice.

Yes. Let's continue rvs onto page fucking 6.

VOTE: start

I liked the attitude of these posts. "You gotta fucking kidding me man, move the game forward please". Also, he didn't just sat there whining about it and instead went on and try to fix the prolonged RVS. That felt very town to me.

I also liked the direction of what he looks for and what to call out such as

390 has my eye on Team 9 now.

why?

-Rumia

I have no reads from the threat to replace out. Yours are weak and you've even admitted it. But you still want to give tn room. Meanwhile tn continues on this whole fluff rant while still trying to prove everything is fluff instead of pushing for reads. And the room you're giving him is just making him defensive. Maybe you're onto something, but if you're not, I'm scum reading your defense.

And his back-and-forth with you I didn't feel any scumBS in there either.
And constant activity despite this game's pace is also a plus.

Pie might have something more to say if he feels like it so he can chime in on this too.

Yes, that's usually why you townread someone. Why do you like his posts?

in addition to all of GIF's points (which I agree with):

"Maybe you're onto something, but if you're not, I'm scum reading your defense."

Think of it this way. The players in this hydra probably have a lot more experience with mafia than I do, and that in part makes me want to trust what I'm interpreting to be a gut read. However, my trust is partly an appeal to authority, and weak as a result. So I don't want to get to attached to GIF.

And I'm not sure how not immediately commenting on tn's fluff bullcrap when there's plenty of people already doing that for the town is an issue. Anything I picked out would have just been a circle jerk with you and Sakura.

And I can only vote for one scum read at a time, geez.

I liked this response to my questioning for a few reasons:

1. his entire read progression during this whole thing read as newb-town who wasn't sure what to do. he's naturally inclined to trust who he perceives as experienced - but then they do something he doesn't understand at all and now he has to question if they're just scum or if it's just him not understanding our point.

2. he's 100% accurate that there was way too much focus on fluff. as GIF said, his attitude where he tries to cut through all the fluff read as town.

3. the last line is correct. the only reason I even called him out for that in the first place was I kept forgetting what his reads were and I thought he was voting on a wagon he didn't think was scum - I usually never call ppl out for where their vote is bc generally ppl's votes do not need to necessarily match whoever they're questioning. I strongly believe in this principle and he was 100% right to correct me on it.

I like his push on you a lot even though I disagree with it. I haven't read too much into it, but what I do remember read as genuine. there's nothing cautious about it, which I'd find impressive if he was scum bc driving my pushes through is smth I still have a lot of trouble faking, and I haven't noticed anything that indicates he doesn't believe any of the angles he's pushing.

Bins you also come off as more genuine than the people you're accusing of doing the same thing as you. Startfromtheheart for example, just comes off as a really bad troll.

Bins you also come off as more genuine than the people you're accusing of doing the same thing as you. Startfromtheheart for example, just comes off as a really bad troll.

Being... geniune... is... bad?

Genuinely scum? Yes.

I actually quite liked this angle. it's a really weird angle to even push, but I can still see what his thought process was (he believes you lack content for real, scum-motivated reasons, as opposed to Bert who trolls every game regardless of what his alignment is) and I buy that he believes it. this one is heavily gut-based, YMMV

I especially agree with GIF's point about how he's keeping his activity up and still able to follow all the major events of the game. despite not necessarily having a lot of posts, he's been here for most of the things that have happened, given his opinions, and commented on them in a way that makes me think he's legitimately trying to game solve - I can provide examples of everything I liked if you want, but just for a recent example, see his response to 22 where he asks for their input before providing his.

-Rumia

fuck

-Rumia

[Team 9]

With that logic ns can't be obvtown within 2 pages.
Your point?

[Team 9]

Actually that was majiffy just being lazy.
So where does your reads stand at this point?

[Team 9]

ok now i have a scum read on flubber and would want to see him lynched for 2564.

it sounds like its a joke b/c hes actualy scum.

i want the hammer thoguh

[Team 9]

it sounds like its a joke b/c hes actualy scum.

You know, I made that post as a joke-reply because if it was a reaction test it was a bad one and if it was an honest question, it also was a bad one because no scum will honestly reply that that do mind about being scanned by a cop, .

[Team 9]

Yeah and they'll have to be terribly bad/new to fall for one of those.

[Team 9]

If my post weren't being read as a joke, I'm pretty sure many more people other than you would've jumped on me for that post.
But everyone read it as a joke because it was one. I think you're the only one in this game who took that post seriously.

[Team 9]

Yeah and they'll have to be terribly bad/new to fall for one of those.

then convince me they are town

#2555 is the nice quotes of the towncase on Flubber we posted yesterday.

[Team 9]

Oh. And you're scum btw. Cheers.

No.

[Team 9]

WTF

I just read the last 8 pages and they were about practically nothing. I like activity and breaking records but........ srsly

-Rumia

[Team 9]

although if Jiffy isn't here anymore I guess I can lay out where I was going with my one question:

We have a wagon at L-2 and no sign of a counterwagon.

That should be your first sign that you're voting in the wrong place.

Vote Thesp.

in order for this angle to work, all 3 scum have to be on the Bulge wagon already, since they couldn't be going to form a counterwagon. I get that he thought Thesp was scum, but there would still have to be 2 more scum from his POV.

when town have a problem with a wagon, it is almost always bc they can name SPECIFIC names of ppl they don't like on the wagon. however, he didn't do that here. he made a vague complaint about the wagon without naming any names besides Thesp, when there were 2 more scum he had to find if he believed in this angle. since town can name specific names, this is smth that is more likely to come from scum than town. (and no, this is not dependent on the fact that it's Bulge, so don't even go down that route)

the fact that the rest of the wagon {tn, Sakura, us, Varsoon} is more likely than not all-town solidifies it - he's making a vague reference to there being scum on the Bulge wagon when there probably aren't any. this part is based on our reads, but I'm feeling good about this

-Rumia

[Team 9]

so to make it point blank to where i can understand:

you think 22 is scum? simple yes/no

Rumia (me) has a scumread on 22
Cirno (GIF) doesn't have an explicit scumread, but doesn't have a townread either leaving them as a likely possibility by POE.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

really im just pissed at everyone still poking bulge for shit of being useless.

Wheee another cherrypicking of my points on the bulge!

-C

[Team 9]

p-edit: dont provoke me any further.....

Is this directed towards me?
If it is, I'm gonna tell you that you're not the first who just went "lol team 9 is pushing the bulge for being useless".
My points on him have been constantly cherry picked by many people and they still are right now even though I explained countless of times that that's not an issue.

[Team 9]

You misunderstand.

Bulge is a mislynch, and scum don't need to fight it. Prior to us subbing in and Bins speaking up, it looked like it was guaranteed to go through because town was pushing for it, and scum were comfortable with just blending in as town-Team 9 pushed it through. Thus, they had no need to help generate any counterwagon. The quote isn't saying that the Bulge wagon is scum-driven. It's not about the lynchers being scum, it's about the player who scum comfortably saw as a guaranteed lynchee being town.

You misunderstand.

Bulge is a scumlynch, and scum aren't fighting it because my case has been cherrypicked to "lol T9 is calling bulge scum for being useless and lurky" and my credibility has been already reduced to rubble of constant discrediting my status as a tunneler. And then the other huge supporter (Sakura) was already branded as a tunneler even before this game. Thus, they had no need to help generate any counterwagon, since they know that he's not gonna be lynched at this rate. All they need to do is one lolwagonshift at the last minute of the D1.

[Team 9]

Because I'm shutting down every single one of them even before they even dare to grow.

[Team 9]

in order for this angle to work, all 3 scum have to be on the Bulge wagon already, since they couldn't be going to form a counterwagon. I get that he thought Thesp was scum, but there would still have to be 2 more scum from his POV.

You misunderstand.

Bulge is a mislynch, and scum don't need to fight it. Prior to us subbing in and Bins speaking up, it looked like it was guaranteed to go through because town was pushing for it, and scum were comfortable with just blending in as town-Team 9 pushed it through. Thus, they had no need to help generate any counterwagon. The quote isn't saying that the Bulge wagon is scum-driven. It's not about the lynchers being scum, it's about the player who scum comfortably saw as a guaranteed lynchee being town.

I agree with this completely.

Team 9, you need to analyze this for a second - if you have, great, but talk to me about it now. If Bulge is town, who are the scum here?

You misunderstand.

Bulge is a mislynch, and scum don't need to fight it. Prior to us subbing in and Bins speaking up, it looked like it was guaranteed to go through because town was pushing for it, and scum were comfortable with just blending in as town-Team 9 pushed it through. Thus, they had no need to help generate any counterwagon. The quote isn't saying that the Bulge wagon is scum-driven. It's not about the lynchers being scum, it's about the player who scum comfortably saw as a guaranteed lynchee being town.

You misunderstand.

Bulge is a scumlynch, and scum aren't fighting it because my case has been cherrypicked to "lol T9 is calling bulge scum for being useless and lurky" and my credibility has been already reduced to rubble of constant discrediting my status as a tunneler. And then the other huge supporter (Sakura) was already branded as a tunneler even before this game. Thus, they had no need to help generate any counterwagon, since they know that he's not gonna be lynched at this rate. All they need to do is one lolwagonshift at the last minute of the D1.

[Team 9]

Which ones did you shut down?

My own.

[Team 9]

Also have been cutting off the bud of Flubber wagon too.

[Team 9]

That doesn't answer my question.

I wasn't done.

3 of {Varsoon, 22, (Gaiden/Bert)}

[Team 9]

And every other damn scum read in this game.

Varsoon? "No, I gutread him town."
Flubber? "Haha, no."

If you have noticed, my stance flipped on him after his terribad setup talk.
Flubber I actually presented a damn towncase on him so l2r

[Team 9]

Don't care.
It's much stronger than your towncase of the Bulge.

[Team 9]

Then perhaps you should start by explaining to us how we're misrepping his posts, like you promised yesterday.

[Team 9]

@22 that was a whole lot of fluff and talk about nothing there

I didn't sign up for this.

Literally did

not

sign up for this.

Majiffy did. I feel no obligation to be here, and therefore I am not going to willingly chain myself to yet another game in which people dismiss my posts as useless, ignore the points behind what I'm saying, and lose themselves in insane confbias, hypocrisy, and stubbornness. I actually thought I might be able to work with your slot once Sakura replaced out. But this is even worse.

I'm done with impossible battles.

Replace me out.

This slot can be town now.

[Team 9]

Oh also let me remind you that my current scumpool now is {Bulge, one of Gaiden/Bert, Varsoon.}
I don't think Gaiden and Bert are scum together. And we personally lean Gaiden for more likely to be scum atm.

[Team 9]

So stay?
(<3)

[Team 9]

Impossible fucking battles.

It's not impossible battle. It's an im passe.
Like, check my ISO. There should be 3 pages. Check page 3. Read that page. Do you see me pushing the Bulge in that whole page? No.
I've been asking how the gaps in the bulge's thought process can possibly come from town. I even singled out when the Bulge wanted a short list of why I think he' s scum.
Instead of answering my question, people have been just yelling at me for "OMG BULGE IS TOWN BECAUSE HOW FRUSTRATED HE LOOKS SDFKLJASDLKFJDSKLFJDLSKF"

[Team 9]

HOW ABOUT THIS: IS HIS MINDSET TOWN?

NO.
He relies on semantics on everything to "disproves that he's scum" not "prove he's town".
When not being attacked, he have been laid back not doing jack shit.

IS THIS MINDSET TOWN?

[Team 9]

HOW ABOUT THIS: IS HIS MINDSET TOWN?

NO.
He relies on semantics on everything to "disproves that he's scum" not "prove he's town".
When not being attacked,

he have been laid back not doing jack shit.

IS THIS MINDSET TOWN?

THIS WAS SO 50 PAGES AGO

Then check his ISO. What have he been doing when he wasn't pushing me?

[Team 9]

Defending Flubber, sorting 22, trolling ika, asking people to explain why the gap from the bulge's thought process can come from town.
So what have been bulge doing instead of pushing me, Bins? Shall I quote them for you?

[Team 9]

^
Bins

[Team 9]

HERE LET ME QUOTE HIS ENTIRE ISO EXCLUDING HIS DEFENSE

You're asking for Team 9's reads on anyone else in this game but me and expecting an answer?

ika is definitely town because why would ika-scum jump into the game and completely change directions on his slot's stance on my wagon?

I think I'm L-2 now because ika

you lost the d

/joke

I think I'm L-2 now because ika

still lynhc -1 cos dont think titus was voting you

!

Didn't ika replace Sakura?

ika is definitely town because

why would

ika-scum jump into the game and completely change directions on his slot's stance on my wagon?

... why is this a question?

I debated making that a period but eh

Flubber, what's your read on the Bulge and view of the Team 9/Bulge interaction? I don't remember you specifically stating it.

That's another reason I felt... off about him. Will let him answer the question first before I get into it, but I liked your points... I feel like I had similar. But do you have anything more... recent that contributes to your read of him?

Why yes.
But I bet you won't like it when I present it.

...he says as he flounders in his hydra QT to prepare meaningful content about somebody who is not named "The Bulge"

notscience actually replaced Sakura and ika replaced ns

Gaiden, dave is obvtown get your vote off that.

notty why do you do this to me

I like beetlejuicing. It's fun. And if done properly, not scummy. Just funny. We all know he's lurking, a beetlejuice doesn't change anything.

i don't see how dave is obvtown. can someone enlighten me?

I would, but I'm on mobile now

You know, Gaiden I have the biggest gut town read on you and it bugs the fuck out of me.

Yep, Majiffy.

:/

Bins and I have a friend who recently asked Eugenie Bouchard to prom. She said yes. True story

Bins stop trying you took like two years of french

PEDIT- ew gross I don't wanna go to prom with her

Yea but she can't dance and kinda smells weird :S

你是一个胖猪

Hey no fair you were born that way

I'm a pretty skinny guy. In middle school, whenever I ate or drank anything (and I mean anything), I would get a weird lump in my stomach that people would call "the bulge" (not the reason for my username. It comes from my last name.
The stomach thing was completely irrelevant to my name. Then in high school my name became a penis joke)

notty

Bulge reminds me of a stomach

Bins remind me of a trash bin.

My seemingly out-of-place anecdote was in response to this for those who were wondering.

I'm awful at baseball tbh

I should stop posting and sleepI keep forgetting I have responsibilities and early mornings now ugh

PEDIT - I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you don't run the bases in pairs. I could be wrong tho

PEDIT@bins - WOWOWOW

coughthreeweekscough what I'm not even here good night zzz

WHAT HAVE HE FUCKING DONE IN THIS GAME, BINS?
IS THIS POSTS FROM 50 PAGES AGO WHERE HE WAS IN V/LA?
HELL NO

[Team 9]

EXCLUDING HIS DEFENSE (AND BY THAT I MEAN EVERYTHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME) YOU TWIT

[Team 9]

YES FOR I'VE BEEN BLEEDING DOCTOR PARANOIA IN THIS GAME FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW
I EVEN CRUMBED MY ROLE AND THOUGHT IT WAS A BAD CRUMB WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO QUOTE THE CRUMB?

[Team 9]

BECAUSE IT SHOULD'VE BEEN OBVIOUS THAT I'M NOT FAKECLAIMING YOU PIECE OF FUCK

[Team 9]

This game depresses me.

Lot of town are gonna fight against each other until everyone is exhausted and apathetic.
Scum's gonna steamrolling this game from D3.
We'll die n1 so we won't be able to

save

this game.

It's just that this sucks that despite I can see everything coming, I can't do shit about it.

No pls
stop this townbloc stuff
I need to

save

this game so I'm not allowed to die n1 dammit

-C

[Team 9]

BOTH OF YOU SHUT UP AND LETS GO AT TN INSTEAD. IT CAN BE SORTED OUT OVER N1

TN is town.
ISO me to find me explaining about how Sakura/TN wall war have been TvT. It's in page 1 of my ISO, past the middle of the page.

[Team 9]

Textbook scumplay by TN

[Team 9]

But does that contains the macho doctor paranoia? Nope.

[Team 9]

Then come at me.

And make a brovenge pact that after I flip town, you and other towns will do everything to get {Bulge/Gaiden/Varsoon} lynched.

[Team 9]

VOTE: Team 9

[Team 9]

Fucking hell, can't we just get you cop investigated or something? I don't want to lynch the MAYBE doctor.

Fucking hell, can't we just get you cop investigated or something? I don't want to lynch the MAYBE doctor.

I'd rather get mislynched than stay as a Cassandra in this game any more minutes thank you very much.

[Team 9]

And place some unfortunate player in this game? Hell no. My slot, my responsibility.

[Team 9]

And place some unfortunate player in this game? Hell no. My slot, my responsibility.

<3
You're sweet,
but not sweet enough to win me over.
Not this time.

idc you're scum.

[Team 9]

Apparently I've covered up my scumslip by claiming a macho doctor.

Right now I'm waiting for pieguy to confirm that he did see the bulge denying that he's a PR when bert asked him for it so I can flip shit on him about scumslipping since not being a "civilian" only means non-VT, not scum.

[Team 9]

what do you mean cherrypicking? I literally quoted every single posts in your ISO excluding your mentioning me.

[Team 9]

So if your name is in my post, it doesn't count as content?

Nope since I was describing what you've done this whole game that has nothing to do with me.

[Team 9]

notsci /hug

-Rumia

[Team 9]

I think there's at least some chance GreyICE is scum

this is mostly POE at this point but there's a few things I'm still wondering about that I'll get into later. most of it had to do with Marquis while he was in the game

I disagree with any cop strategy on principle. I don't see the point in trying to organize any kind of plan around the cop. it's way easier and more natural for everyone to just play normally.

although..... fwiw, I'd like to recommend GreyICE as a cop choice. from what I've read, he's a very dangerous scum player, but his reads generally are good when he's town. thus he's an excellent choice for someone to cop. I usually never do this, but I'm having nightmares about it and idk if I'm just crazy or what. (<- not trying to necessarily direct the cop, but rather just laying out all the info so whoever the cop is has it on the table)

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Double dog dare you to find a single thing that wasn't opportunistic finger pointing, setup discussion, general philosophy winges, or random "my thoughts about events on the past few pages". What does that say? Is he smart enough to have insights on player's mentalities? Or is he too stupid to have that insight? Or is he just finding it really hard to do actual analysis of a player for some reason?

while I have Thesp's slot as mostly null, I disagree with your reasoning here

for one Thesp has already said he has a bunch of townreads, but isn't elaborating on them. it is possible he's scum using this as a preemptive excuse for not having to elaborate on anything, but as long as his explanation checks out, I don't think this is a good angle to push. do you disagree?

second, if he was looking for an opportunistic lynch, his switch off the Bulge doesn't make sense imo. he unvoted Bulge bc "it doesn't look like Bulge will get lynched today". now that I'm looking at it again, his switch came, iirc, before most of the ppl had unvoted the Bulge.

however, the Bulge wagon reached L-1 at a point. if Bulge is town and Thesp is scum, all he had to do in order to push the wagon through was get someone like Gaiden on there or, hell, ika later in the game had expressed intent to hammer.

I also disagree that pushing lurkers necessarily == opportunistic - GIF and I shared a similar sentiment for most of the game where we thought we could lollynch a lurker and have a greater than average chance of a scumflip. his vote on Bulge was also the 1st vote which, while not impossible, is smth I think would be less likely to come from an opportunistic push.

I'd also like elaboration on your thoughts on Titus while she was in the game (bc I scumread her early on although I have the slot at null now) and your read on Varsoon (I disagree, I wanna know what you're seeing). Bulge read would also be nice but not necessary.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

also I got your back GIF

The brovenge man
The brovenge
Oh also alcohol gave me ephiphany and I would loke to share it with all these nice people.
But first anz the question pls
Dont worry scums this isnt a reaction test and it is not aboht your scumbuddy bulge.

What is your opinion about faking paranoia?

Mod ill.quote it later so pls lemme.post a bit

[Team 9]

we need answers to the question first

-Rumia

[Team 9]

actually you know what

part of me wants to say Thesp was bussing Bulge and he just intended it to look like a lurker push, but then the wagon blew up and that's why he derailed it bc "it won't go through" despite the fact it totally would have

this is what I start thinking when I'm still awake at 8 AM. fuck me in the ass

-Rumia

[Team 9]

if we dont have another player to look for

I do!
And I swear im not talking about bulge.
So everyone answer my quesion, for it is necessary to further explain my point.

[Team 9]

Sure.
does fake paranoia come from town or scum?

[Team 9]

Also I was kinda drunk so I didnt read any pie post yet but im gonna disagree with greyice scum for now.

[Team 9]

I've noticed this a couple of times and wanted to get clarification. Are you talking about tn(4digit number) or Team 9? Because at least once it looked like you meant T9 and wrote tn. The question comes up because tn(numbers) posts are a bit more rare than Team 9.

Oh, sorry! Didn't mean to be confusing, it's tn numbers. I usually call Team 9 either Team 9, "that hydra" or "oh god not again".

So you're adapting pretty well to MS I see, even though you're 2014. First scum game? It's not bad at all.[/quote]
You forgot the "lolhydra".

[Team 9]

Fake anything is scummy

Having a PR and faking being vanilla as a possible exception. But yes I agree.

Cool.

Now go open up Varsoon's ISO, and see how he have been responding to me after my claim and exactly where did he start bringing up the paranoia of my claim.
Varsoon's paranoia about pr claiming is huge. Do you think his posts fit that huge paranoia?

Answer sheet coming once many people responds to it.

[Team 9]

V's paranoia of MY pr claim*

[Team 9]

Varsoon case is special. Because I know for a fact that that's now town-varsoon become paranoia over my claim.

[Team 9]

Oh silly me where's my vote

VOTE: Varsoon

[Team 9]

My feeling on the Bulge wagon, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that people were voting for the Bulge because people were voting for the Bulge. I saw more descriptions of the wagon as a "leftover" wagon than I did of "this is scummy, we must murder this post haste".

this part is incorrect. the Bulge wagon at its peak:

(L-1) The Bulge: Thesp, Team 9, Sakura Hana, Varsoon, tn5421, notscience

Thesp was voting Bulge as a lurker vote, yes. but after that:

-we have a whole bunch of good reasons for scumreading Bulge that, incidentally, still haven't been refuted. the only reason we're not actively pushing it any more is bc for whatever reason no one has ever engaged us on any of our arguments and instead everyone keeps saying our case is based on "lol inactivity".
-Sakura pointed out several scummy behaviors from Bulge
-Varsoon initially voted him as a lurker vote. however, then he thought Bulge wasn't handling the pressure well and eventually agreed with us
-tn had also pointed out some things from Bulge he thought was scummy
-I strongarmed notsci into joining us on the wagon

Bert had also voted Bulge while the wagon was building up but eventually unvoted. Flubber also has a scumread on Bulge. so p much every vote on the wagon was legit as opposed to "vote for the sake of vote" (this is actually one of the reasons I didn't like 22's behavior while they were in the game - they kept trying to write the Bulge wagon off as "lol we're lynching Bulge just because we already have a wagon there" when they supposedly hadn't read the game and it wasn't the case at all, among other reasons)

It's damn hard for scum to stay on a predecessor wagon - if nothing else it looks scummy. If you want to say the bulge wagon died because of anyone, it died because of notscience. Thesp actually came in AFTER not science started pushing the wagon away and tried to Kickstart the wagon, on the basis of "noncontributions" (which seems to be his new defining mantra - apparently all this scumhunting shit has gone out the window, and Thesp lynches based on post count and post length (the only explanation for him not being on TN's ass, besides the fact they're currently sharing a QT and shit)

uh.... this isn't exactly how it went. while it's true nostci tried to derail the Bulge wagon, eventually I strongarmed him into joining it. after that he said he felt bad for making Sakura replace out and wouldn't unvote unless we said he could which indicates he had stopped trying to derail it. Thesp came in after that happened.

I also disagree that the wagon couldn't have been pushed though. at that point the wagon had 5 votes. while a lot of the player list kept arguing for Bulge town, there were at least 2 or 3 ppl who had given no reason or are notable for throwing votes around easily - Flubber (who later on had a scumread on Bulge) was off the wagon and it wouldn't have been too hard to get the last vote from Bert or Gaiden. plus, I was already basically planning to appeal to exactly those 3 people, so in hindsight he wouldn't even had to have done anything (although he couldn't have known that at the time)

not to mention it got revived later and reached L-2 with Thesp off the wagon and ika had declared intent to hammer. he could have easily pushed the wagon through there if he wanted to. it might have been kind of conspicuous, but it was at the very least possible - which is exactly what I'm saying.

btw, just to clarify I'm not necessarily saying Thesp is town. I currently have him as null and am considering the possibility he's scum. I'm just unsure about this specific angle. also I didn't have a town read on your predecessor. Marquis hit a lot of off notes when he was in the game and that's the main reason I think your slot might be scum

I'd like if you could elaborate on your thoughts on Titus (I was scum reading her when she was in the game and I wanna know if you picked up on the same thing I saw with her) and your Varsoon read.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

-we have a whole bunch of good reasons for scumreading Bulge that, incidentally, still haven't been refuted. the only reason we're not actively pushing it any more is bc for whatever reason no one has ever engaged us on any of our arguments and instead everyone keeps saying our case is based on "lol inactivity".

and no, if you're watching, I do not want any discussion over this atm. the last thing this game needs at this point in time is even more pages of "bulge this bulge that".

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh btw, I agree with GIF on Varsoon

-Rumia

[Team 9]

Fake anything is scummy

Having a PR and faking being vanilla as a possible exception. But yes I agree.

Cool.

Now go open up Varsoon's ISO, and see how he have been responding to me after my claim and exactly where did he start bringing up the paranoia of my claim.
Varsoon's paranoia about pr claiming is huge. Do you think his posts fit that huge paranoia?

Answer sheet coming once many people responds to it.

Hi grey
If you dont get why varsoon is scum, do this first and get back to me.

[Team 9]

Why Varsoon wagon?

I love the idea of lynching Thesp. Barring that, I like the idea of lynching TN.

I'm not sold on this Varsoon wagon in the least.

last wish of a claimed doctor who is likely to die n1 who wants to see a red flip from his own scumpool.

[Team 9]

Also dont ever touch sakura/ika because that slot is town as fuck.
If im wrong, I will call everyone here a master for an entire duration of this game.

[Team 9]

Even in the dead PT.

[Team 9]

do not hammer. we still have shit to say. Varsoon is scum and we will lay out the reasoning for it when GIF gets back.

notice how Bulge has been doing absolutely nothing, then came back and jumped on the Thesp wagon without saying or doing anything else? that's opportunistic scum 101. if Thesp flips town, you know where to look.

also, did anyone stop to consider WHY he has stopped doing anything at all? he is doing absolutely nothing because he knows that as long as Bins is sitting there hard defending him, he doesn't HAVE to do anything.

and Bins, not gonna lie, you seem completely foreign to the concept of people tailoring their scum games around certain people. I can link at least 2 games where someone was scum and the person who was "supposed" to know how to read them the best read got completely snowed by them. for the last time, our case has nothing to do with inactivity, and all of Bulge's rage so far has been null. this is one final fucking reach out because you tbh ahve pissed me off more than anyone else in the history of the game of mafia. why is Bulge town besides his frustration, and what about his play, especially his recent giant lurkfuck play, comes from a town POV? you really need to be looking at the actual motivations behind Bulge's play, and not just assuming you can read him, bc I literally can't think how his recent play comes from a town POV at all.

if someone for some awful fucking reason hammers Thesp before we finish saying what we want to say, I outright want Varsoon lynched tomorrow, regardless of Thesp's alignment (Varsoon is scum regardless of Thesp's flip). no questions asked. and then when he flips scum, Bulge after that - he is, quite seriously, the second largest scumread I have ever had in a mafia game, and you all should cash that in as hard as you can.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

promise me you'll lynch varsoon tomorrow

and promise me if he flips scum you'll listen to us and lynch bulge after that

remember tales of you where ap was scum and bro was like "herp derp he's town" and kept derailing the lynch off him and we kept asking why and he never had anything

remember GIF's touhou where zmuffin was scum, had a guilty, was about to get lynched and nacho megaderailed the lynch on him for literally no reason

remember how when i reached out to sakura and she told me she didn't think about it as a reach out, how she brought up the game where nacho was scum and she hard defended him to the death

you said you like having someone else to keep your poe in check. this is me, keeping your poe in check, telling you, it's never wise to write people off as town just because of someone else's read on them unless you agree with the underlying reasoning which bins still hasnt gave

please don't forget us and our arguments, which still haven't been countered and instead have been strawmanned down to just "inactivity"

-Rumia

[Team 9]

IF THESP FLIPS COP LYNCH VARSOON TOMORROW

QUICKHAMMERING AND GOING LIKE "herp derp I didn't believe the claim" IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING VARSOON AS SCUM WOULD DO

EVEN IF THESP FLIPS SCUM, VARSOON IS NOT A BAD ENOUGH PLAYER AS TOWN TO FUCKING HAMMER AFTER WE OUTRIGHT SAY NOT TO

[Team 9]

if thesp is lying and real cop CC'ed, we could have just protected whoever CC'ed

then they would have got 1 investigation guaranteed

if they got a guilty, 2 scum down, if they got an inno, unclaimed doc protecs every night

I was about to post all this shit until you fucknig did that

[Team 9]

hgo to GIF's games and look for one with fuzzybutternut as IC

it's the 2nd one on the list. it should have Varsoon adn Cabd in it

now look at the way Varsoon got paranoid of GIF's jailkeeper claim in that game, and compare it to this game. the paranoia in this game is overblown and obviously faked

varsoon is 100% scum and you all will fucking lynch him tomorrow

[Team 9]

if you were really town cop you wouldn't fucking hammer without CC'ing and then claim it in twilight anyway

[Team 9]

if you're claiming cop, we're on you tonight

other doc protect literally anyone else

[Team 9]

i'm just tired and really want out of this game

[Team 9]

no, we claimed bc GIF PR slipped anyway

[Team 9]

btw, if Thesp flips town cop, and you're actually a VT lolgambiting

there will be no fucking words

i will fucking eat you alive in postgame and you know that i like you

[Team 9]

so, just to be clear, you are claiming town cop, correct?

I want this on the table so you can't get out of it

[Team 9]

because caliming it was a "lolgambit" is something you would do as scum

if you are town cop,

claim it instead of just making vague references to it

and we're on you tonight

[Team 9]

let me make this big so no one misses it

If Thesp flips scum, we are protecting Varsoon tonight. @Other Macho Doctor, protect literally anyone else bc if we both protect Varsoon both protections fail.

If Thesp flips Town Cop, GET VARSOON TOMORROW AND DON'T LET HIM TRY TO BACKTRACK OUT OF IT BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING HE WOULD DO AS SCUM

[Team 9]

final pie reads:

-Bulge is scum, even if Thesp flips scum. the way Thesp pushed Bulge reeks of a bus and I already explained why: he backed off because "lol Bulge can't be lynched" despite the fact Bulge totally could have been lynched.
-town (S->W): us, Sakura/ika, notscience, tn, Flubber <gap> Bins, davesaz
-1 to 2 scum in {Gaiden, Bert, GreyICE} depending on Thesp's flip. might also be dave. obviously, get Varsoon if Thesp flips town.
-

DO NOT EVER LYNCH SAKURA/IKA OR I WILL FUCKING HUNT YOU DOWN AND BIND YOU INTO SUBMISSION IRL. I WOULD BET MY ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS ON THAT READ

I'm not 100% sure on GIF's updated reads, but he posted a reads list somewhat recently. I know for a fact he agrees on all those townreads.

[Team 9]

I'm just saying that, if you were scum, quickhammering because "lol I didn't believe hte claim" and then trying to backtrack out of it going "herp derp I'm a VT lolgambiting" is something you would do. do you deny that?

[Team 9]

What do we do if TheSP flips town, but not cop?

btw it's shit like this that makes me think you just did exactly that. Thesp has no motivation to fakeclaim cop as town

[Team 9]

also I fucked up my reads list. yay for being awake at 5 AM

final pie reads:

-Bulge is still scum, even if Thesp flips scum. the way Thesp pushed Bulge reeks of a bus and I already explained why: he backed off because "lol Bulge can't be lynched" despite the fact Bulge totally could have been lynched.
-town (S->W): us, Sakura/ika, notscience, tn, Flubber <gap> Bins, davesaz
-1 to 2 scum in {Gaiden, Bert, GreyICE, Varsoon*} depending on Thesp's flip. might also be dave. obviously, get Varsoon if Thesp flips town.
-

DO NOT EVER LYNCH SAKURA/IKA OR I WILL FUCKING HUNT YOU DOWN AND BIND YOU INTO SUBMISSION IRL. I WOULD BET MY ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS ON THAT READ

I'm not 100% sure on GIF's updated reads, but he posted a reads list somewhat recently. I know for a fact he agrees on all those townreads.

[Team 9]

You don't see motivation to fakeclaim cop in an open setup?

as scum, yes

as town, FUCK NO BECAUSE IT WILL DRAW OUT THE REAL COP REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS

[Team 9]

also, just in case Thesp is town cop, I'm calling {Bulge, Varsoon, GreyICE} scumteam now

then Bulge and Grey will roll everyone and I'll come back in postgame and quote this

[Team 9]

With an inno, real cop gets to hide in town while scum scrambles to fuck with fake-cop.

and then scum accidentally kills real-cop bc they fear doc will protect fake cop and then the fakecop gets mislynched the next day

but in all seriousness, no

[Team 9]

varsoon help me get this page top

there is no pro-town reason not to do this

[Team 9]

and I don't feel like spamming 6 posts in a row in order to make it

[Team 9]

thx

[Team 9]

If Thesp flips scum, we are protecting Varsoon tonight. @Other Macho Doctor, protect literally anyone else bc if we both protect Varsoon both protections fail.

If Thesp flips Town Cop, GET VARSOON TOMORROW AND DON'T LET HIM TRY TO BACKTRACK OUT OF IT BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING HE WOULD DO AS SCUM

[Team 9]

GIF reads:

-Varsoon and Bulge are scum
-Gaiden towntold a bit ago
-he has tn as more town than I do
-Bert might be scum, but probably not
-last scum is most likely GreyICE, or maaaaaaaybe Flubber

[Team 9]

btw I want to reiterate that yes, there is plenty of motivation for scum Varsoon to hammer here: take down 2 PRs, when he was gonna go down anyway

so do not let him get out of it it's 100% fucking him

-Rumia

[Team 9]

oh and btw

if anyone is sheeping Bins' meta read on Bulge, note that Bulge doesn't have a completed scum game.

-Rumia