Royal Family Mafia - Game Over!

[LuckayLuck]

vote Bogre

for bandwagoning a girl, zomg!

[LuckayLuck]

unvote: bogre vote: bird11111

Mafia see, Mafia do

[LuckayLuck]

It would be a brilliant play as mafia, but Canucklehead has invoked the "new player townie tell." I will not be voting for him anytime soon.

FOS: IH

I find Canucklehead's explanation to be very good, you don't, I take it?

[LuckayLuck]

IH, without going into a somewhat telling explanation, I believe that it is ideal strategy for this particular situation to assume that Canuckle is a townie.

[LuckayLuck]

But I think Canuckle's town. Although the popular wagon is not always the best wagon.

LL: Why is it ideal to assume he is town?

I will give you 2 of the 3 reasons why it is ideal to assume he is town:

1) Because I think he is town. (You think he's town too.)
2) Because assuming that he's town means that I don't have to worry about him being a mafia. (Trust me, I know this comment looks incredibly stupid, but it's very nice having somebody that you can 100% trust as townie, either while mistaken or not)
3) ???? (I don't want to reveal this one.)

[LuckayLuck]

Thok: you may or may not be correct. Either way though, you're sharp.
Canucklehead: FoSing me makes me think more of you. Good work. :p

Silentspeaker: what I can't stand is how you managed to vote for Canucklehead with a completely straight face while completely ignoring my defense of him.

unvote, vote Silentspeaker

[LuckayLuck]

And LuckayLuck, from what I can tell your defense amounts to "I assume he's town, for no reason other than it provides me with a starting point." Care to explain why I should give that any weight at all?

I'm going to also assume that Ether is town now.
Eventually, with enough assumptions of townies, I will be able to death star a mafia.
You may or may not buy into my methods, but it doesn't really matter to any of us unless Canuckle or Ether are in danger of being lynched. At that point in time, I will rain down divine righteous blades of fury at the mafia.

[LuckayLuck]

I'm going to also assume that Ether is town now.
Eventually, with enough assumptions of townies, I will be able to death star a mafia.
You may or may not buy into my methods, but it doesn't really matter to any of us unless Canuckle or Ether are in danger of being lynched. At that point in time, I will rain down divine righteous blades of fury at the mafia.

[faultylogic]

So what if the mafia begin to use your town tells to get on your assumption list. Then you will start watching random townie's closer than people on your assumption list, would you not?

I keep trying to express this point to you in both of the games I'm in with you. It's just not a smart way to go about hunting scum IMO.

Don't worry IH, I do this in each game, you know this because you're in both games with me. And while it may look completely ridiculous to you, I have my methods, there is method in the madness! Roll with it for now. If it makes you feel better, just take my words to mean that "I believe Canuckle and Ether are leaning slight townie."

[LuckayLuck]

Well, everyone's methods and 'fishing' are fascinating, but we're still not really finding anyone who's scum yet.

canucklehead is

Fritzler, if Canucklehead is a scum in this game, then he is a scum PRODIGY. I am 95% sure Canucklehead is townie.

[LuckayLuck]

Ether, shall we be masons? 8)

[LuckayLuck]

All, I just had a revelation.
The Silent Speaker is likely to be townie.

unvote

[LuckayLuck]

wait...no...my revelation was made late at night. It's no good. It's actually completely wrong.
The Silent Speaker is actually suspicious.

Vote: The Silent Speaker

I may have just looked incredibly foolish in these 2 posts, I probably really do, but just keep in the back of your mind...method behind the madness.

[LuckayLuck]

By the way, IH is a townie in this game (not sure about the other one yet, IH ). IH, we definitely should be open masons in this game, your style will compliment mine quite nicely.

[LuckayLuck]

But I do agree that Luckay's strategy seems--well, I'm not certain what it actually is and how far in the game he intends to go by it, so it's hard to say. Luckay, I too would like to read a few finished games where you made such predictions.

Lucky's strategy:
1. Make possibly controversial, but often correct (imo) predictions that may or may not go against the crowd.
2. Strongly believe in these predictions. Call me crazy, but believing strongly in these predictions and then looking at what your target does in response is an extreme tell.


I don't have any games on this site yet, but all the current games I have will follow this strategy. Even the newbie game. The newbie game is the one currently furthest through but not over yet, is it kosher to link it?

[LuckayLuck]

In another game, Seol just grilled me about this. I'm going to just post it word for word here because it probably needs explanation. Includes a game too!


-------------------------

Jeez. You are, if nothing else, thorough.

Please provide links to games where you used this "strategy" on other forums.

I'm so hesitant to do this because I'm a nutjob there. Okay fine, here too. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showf ... page=&vc=1
Reading through day1 should be enough to get to know my general style. No, I don't implement this specific "strategy" but I implement the same general concepts. Villager tells, an excel spreadsheet of doom, crazy theories. The background of the forum which I come from is a lot more casual from this, one-day-day/nights, everyone pretty much knows each other, etc. If it's any consolation, I seriously have a very good townie/mafia list throughout.

Are you saying that the comment was

intended

to be read as inflammatory and unjustified? Did you have any reasons to pick myself and GC? If so, what were they?

If I say that somebody has a townie tell (or, townie feeling, townie-ish, whatever), I am 100% serious. In my mind, it is justified...I mostly call them townie tells because some of them are the psychological quirks which townies tend to do (you would call this WIFOM, I use WIFOM a lot, don't diss WIFOM). Some of them are more solid evidence such as timing of responses and etc.

Okay, I'll reveal the reasons why I picked you and GC.

Initially, Seol, I picked you because you made a super-awesome accurate post. It's not just length either, it's...style, Type of response. You will no doubt try to pull off the same type of post as a wolf now that I know you slightly better and have seen more of your posting style, but I still believe you to be the #1 villager here as of RIGHT NOW. What really rang the townie alarm, however, was:

Luckay, I've got a newsflash for you. You're not Pooky.

Are you playing to win, or to dick around?

A mafia just can't possibly make THIS post 30 minutes after my crazy proposal of masonry. It's near impossible. This is my townie tell on you, Seol. As I said, I'm 95% sure you're a townie after that little bit.

I now "TRUST" and "FOLLOW" what you say exactly - because you've demosntrated the almighty townie tell. Could I have gotten the tell and had it strengthen even more now by first offering "masonry" and then by stating "95% townie" and such? No way! And you've followed that up with:

Are you playing to win?

Yes, I'm playing to win.
And I believe I've nailed you down as a townie. If you are indeed a townie, as I'm 95% sure of now, you should recognize that this is valuable information that can only be good.

Except

there's no information!

Blind trust is

dangerous

, informed trust is fine but I don't see any evidence of that. I don't want you to trust

anyone

without reason, including myself.

just 20 minutes after my retort. Seol, you're like 99% villager. And in my world, if I don't say 100%, it means I'm not using BLIND TRUST. I have turned around and lynched / led lynches for those who I have trusted as near-masons in other games. I have turned around and mason-ed with those who I have led lynches for. My style is very flexible, it provides the type of tells that I can see as useful whereas others might not, most of these tells if I presented them would get smacked down with the WIFOM argument...but you know what? WIFOM is legit evidence townies / mafia.

Seol, think of how important the input of a confirmed villager (via seer, for example) is. Townies can finally take the villager's word as gospel and argue directly with him about it with no nagging feeling in their mind "hmm...but...but...maybe he's mafia." Even those one sees as mostly townie...it can never come close to seeing someone as a confirmed townie or as a mason. I manage to do that, I frame it in my mind that someone I have a townie tell on IS a confirmed townie or a mason and treat them as such. A silly crazy exercise? No, it really helps me see their true intentions, gets you thinking on their level unlike that of just reading what they have to say. Sort of hard to explain.

The best thing is, if my mason seems strange at all, and this is something that can only really be seen from really treating your target as a mason and then sensing that slight disturbance...you have the best mafia tell of all time. Because your mason is supposed to be the best villager in the game.



Just...you'll have to recognize that I have a slightly different playstyle. Am I undermining the town? No, I help the town. Sometimes, I feel like a defense attorney for those about to get lynched. More often than not, and it's gotten a lot better recently, I've managed to stop townies from getting lynched / townies did get lynched but I did call it correctly and defended them. Am I ACTIVELY trying to generate reactions from saying "Controversial Target X is a townie"? This is secondary, really...as I've suggested, if this entire concept seems like pure crazy-talk, interpret my actions thus far as:

"I feel that Seol and Green Crayons are leaning townie."

Oh, I missed the reasons for why GC is townie. GC is townie because we had an argument over punctuation. We worked it out. Most importantly, however, GC has sifted one by one across all players who post something of worth. Votes all over the place. In some cases, this is a wolf tell, but in this particular context / voting style it is a townie tell.


Seol, someday...someday, we'll be masons.

[LuckayLuck]

Silent Speaker,

So... not random, then. Unvote: Ether, vote: Canucklehead.

This looks mafia-ish.


Also, you were the first vote on Ether, who at the time of my suspicion, had the highest bandwagon. The "first day first wave mafia bandwagon" theorem dictates that there is usually exactly one mafia on the first 4-vote wagon on day1, and the 4th vote is not a mafia. IH is townie, and Ether is townie, thus: it's either you or Bogre.

FOS: Bogre

P.S. I'm a nut, but not crazy

[LuckayLuck]

Canuckle, that looked more like cryptic platitude than something I could understand. Are there individuals you have an opinion on?

Luckay, on Day 1 of that game was a post where you Excel'd everyone and what you thought of them. Here were your towniest at that point, and what they turned out to be.

Chuckleslovakian: scum
Durron597: town
Nicholasp27: scum
OurHouse: town
Sighing: town
Xorbie: technically neutral, but if he won, the town and scum had to flip a coin for the win
Zurvan: town

There were 28 players in total, 8 of whom were scum and 2 of whom were neutrals working in cahoots. 2 of the scum were odd cases--one could be switched to town when the neutrals felt like it and the other started out believing it was town--so let's ignore those and the neutrals and just say that the proportions were 6 scum in 24 people. One fourth.

Luckay, one third of the people on your town list were scum.

The excel spreadsheet switcheroos over time~!

[LuckayLuck]

Just to let you guys know, I think that Canucklehead is a townie.
...
that is all.

[LuckayLuck]

Perhaps Bird1111 also has info on himself?

Also, Canuckle, welcome to the Ether-wagon?

Uhh, thanks? LOL. Since all these first round votes are totally random, it appeared Ether was the one people were piling on.

Because first round votes are completely random. I'm new to this forum, so I have no "oh, I want to get him back for a previous game" excuses. I made a random vote for you earlier, then saw that the voting bandwagon was heaping up on Ether, and decided to hope on board since he was the popular vote.

Was everyone else not voting random on Ether?

Canuckle, after these two posts I stated:

It would be a brilliant play as mafia, but Canucklehead has invoked the "new player townie tell." I will not be voting for him anytime soon.

This is because your first two posts are things that mafia never post, unless they're playing WIFOM. You're too new (based on join date) to be playing the WIFOM card. You are a new player to mafia, and you are a townie.

LL, thanks for the defense thus far. I hope you won't think less of me, but seeing as mafia is a game of suspicion...

I suspect I may be getting set up. Let's say, theoretically, that you're scum. It would be a sneaky strategy if you were to protect me all day from IH, and then kill off IH tonight. Suddenly, tomorrow, people are thinking the new guy slipped up and killed off the main guy accusing him. So there I go.

FoS: LL

After saying this, I responded:

Canucklehead: FoSing me makes me think more of you. Good work. :p

You further cemented your townie-ness with me.



You keep giving off townie tells everywhere:

Well, everyone's methods and 'fishing' are fascinating, but we're still not really finding anyone who's scum yet.

I've re-read what I posted and it was kind've vague. Here's what I meant.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that IH was scum. So he decides in order to REALLY act like a townie, he should employ this technique known as fishing. So he starts fishing, throwing suspicion everywhere EXCEPT to him.

Another point would be that we spend all this time looking for a reaction, and anyone who gives any kind of reaction gets hammered, while the mafia sits back, takes it easy, and gets off free.

As far as opinions on any players, I have to say LL confuses the living daylights out of me. He(or she, sorry I don't remember LL) always has some kind of unfounded suspicion, and it takes a full length editorial to explain.

Another player I have a bit of an opinion on is IH. Chiefly, he is the man 'fisherman' of the bunch. He seems to be ok though, just tries to make things a bit too technical.

I wish the forum hadn't gone down so much, it's hard to make accurate judgments with these week long breaks in between posts, y'know?

I'd be most happy to oblige.

My definition of fishing, as I understand it the way it's been used and explained on here(it's a new concept to me actually) is that you throw out a statement that is accusing in tone, and then wait to see my reaction. If the reaction is tense and harsh, you judge me as being defensive, and direct suspicions towards me or whoever you are fishing for right then. (BTW, if my definition of fishing is wrong, by all means correct me, because it is a new concept)

For instance, when I joined the "Ether-wagon", you said "Canuckle, welcome to the Ether bandwagon?". After hearing the comments afterwards, it seemed to me like you were trying to gain a reaction. The question(to me) seemed to say "That seems awful scummy that you'd simply follow the crowd". Which is kind've hypocritical, considering several others were jumping on the bandwagon as well.

But you're not the only one. SS was doing it a good bit as well. Sorry if I used you as an example TOO much.

Oh I understand that. I just don't see how it's helping the town. We're confusing ourselves pretty early here, and I think the chief cause is because of the paranoia of people 'fishing'.

And I never said YOU were suspicious. In fact, if you read three or four posts above, I said that you seemed ok.

After this series of 3 posts, all of which rang off the townie bells in my head, I once again stated my very strong opinion:

Just to let you guys know, I think that Canucklehead is a townie.
...
that is all.

Canucklehead, if you aren't a townie, you are the best mafia-role new mafia player of all time. You would be a prodigy.

You do not even need to be peeked by the seer to be a confirmed townie at this point. You're a townie. Townie townie townie.

By the way, if I die, and I'm a seer, I peeked Canucklehead17. Canuckle is a townie.

[LuckayLuck]

Ether is a townie too. I didn't get two peeks, and if I'm a seer, I didn't peek Ether, but I'm nearly sure Ether is a townie.

[LuckayLuck]

I just really wanted to drill in the FACT that Canucklehead is a townie. Townie townie townie. 99.9% sure. If he isn't a townie I just may quit playing mafia on this site out of pure shame. (This does not apply to Ether, though)

Also, I'm not as sure of IH as I am of Canuckle & Ether, but IH is also most likely a townie.


Mariyta is above average chance to be townie. Just to let you guys know.
HackerHuck has slightly (barely) above chance to be townie.


All others are fair game at the moment! I advise putting the bandwagon on THE SILENT SPEAKER!

[LuckayLuck]

If Canuckle is scum, then he is sure to have partners. Partners he has talked with. Partners who perhaps told him to do as such.

I submit to you that it is impossible for scum partners to have rehearsed in this great detail with Canuckle with how to give off townie tells to this extent.

Another way Canuckle could be knowing what he's doing. READING OTHER GAMES.

Yet ANOTHER way. He's played on a DIFFERENT site.

Also, there is a wiki describing logical fallacies, and WIFOM is one of them, not to mention general tips about playing as scum and as town.

There are so many unknowns which we can't take for granted, that all newbie town tells such as these are complete crap. If you look at 'town' tells, you will notice it delves into the minds habits. This is such a broad spectrum, that it is all but impossible to have as such.

This is the thing, though...I've pinpointed his mind down exactly to the dot. He may or may not have read the wiki, he may or may not have read other games. However, I am willing to bet that he has not played many online mafia games so far, just based on his posting style early on. GIVEN the information that he has not played many online mafia games so far, I can READ INTO HIS SOUL and see that he is a new-ish player, and that he is a townie.

Can we vote for the silent speaker now?

[LuckayLuck]

Actually, I'm going to further persue this topic to ROCK YOUR WORLD.

Uhh, thanks? LOL. Since all these first round votes are totally random, it appeared Ether was the one people were piling on.

From this post alone, it doesn't take an expert to see that Canuckle hasn't played many online mafia games so far. Look at the explanation behind the vote. He voted for Ether because "a lot of other people were voting for her." He says that! So now that we have established that he has, in fact, not played many online mafia games so far (and I'm sure Canuckle can back me up here and say that he hasn't played much, if any, on other sites, because my read on him is THAT strong)...

LL, thanks for the defense thus far. I hope you won't think less of me, but seeing as mafia is a game of suspicion...

I suspect I may be getting set up. Let's say, theoretically, that you're scum. It would be a sneaky strategy if you were to protect me all day from IH, and then kill off IH tonight. Suddenly, tomorrow, people are thinking the new guy slipped up and killed off the main guy accusing him. So there I go.

FoS: LL

It is impossible for a newish player to make this post as a mafia. It is impossible for the newish player to suspect that he's getting set up, when he is mafia. This is IMPOSSIBLE.

Canuckle is 99.99% townie.

My logic is irrefutable!


Can we vote for the silent speaker now?

[LuckayLuck]

Canucklehead: answer this question. The only way for me to differentiate me from a nut to someone who actually thought this through is if I am correct in this assumption. If I am right on this one, then you have to assume that I at least am not straining.


I am assuming that you have not played many online mafia games so far. I have no way to tell, because the search function is broken, but your joined date + posting style indicate that you're new. I am drawing my conclusions from the fact that you are new.

Are you new-ish to online mafia, Canuckle?

[LuckayLuck]

unvote: the silent speaker

vote: Bogre

[LuckayLuck]

Actually LL, I am about to rock your world.

I would say that newer players would be more LIKELY to think that someone is going to set them up. It's not usually done, so newer players wouldn't know that it's not a common strategy. It seems like an easy way to throw suspicion on someone. Your logic is refutable, because you cannot read

minds

IH, I will agree to disagree with you here.

[LuckayLuck]

other than I KNOW that Bogre is a dirty filthy lurker from previous experience...

any reason why?

Earlier, I said:

Silent Speaker,

So... not random, then. Unvote: Ether, vote: Canucklehead.

This looks mafia-ish.


Also, you were the first vote on Ether, who at the time of my suspicion, had the highest bandwagon. The "first day first wave mafia bandwagon" theorem dictates that there is usually exactly one mafia on the first 4-vote wagon on day1, and the 4th vote is not a mafia. IH is townie, and Ether is townie, thus: it's either you or Bogre.

FOS: Bogre

P.S. I'm a nut, but not crazy

I have decided that the silent speaker is not as good a lynch now. I prefer Bogre now.

[LuckayLuck]

unvote: the silent speaker
vote: Bogre

Why you felt the need to change that vote now? Some reasons please? I can see one post of TSS between yours "can we lynch SS now?" And change to Bogre. That's what changed your mind?

Yes, that is exactly the post that changed my mind, I thought it would be clear because there's only one post between my 180 degree turn.

I'm switching to Bogre because that post was townieish.
Yes, it's purely read/gut based, and I even admit that this isn't too good particularly for TSS, but at least I have something for TSS and nothing from Bogre.

[LuckayLuck]

Why don't they pay me more?
Life was good before
And I am thirsty...

The only thing I've slipped on and have been bouncing was once on TSS when I unvoted him, claimed him townie, then immediately turned back on that and said he was mafia. I mis-read a townie tell.

I'm actually really bad at mafia tells. My votes are usually on people who don't have townie tells.

[LuckayLuck]

I am leaning strongly townie for Twito as well. I am not ready to present my arguments for why this is so, but let's just say...Twito is pretty townieish.

All of you who are on Twito at the moment are ON NOTICE. I will look you up soon.

[LuckayLuck]

I just realized that the only person on Twito who I haven't townie tell'd is Jack.
Hello, scum.

Unvote

VOTE: JACK

[LuckayLuck]

unvote

Vote: Canucklehead17

"I will jump on the Twito wagon." Oh cmoon this guy is so obviously scum.. DIE SCUM DIE!

If I can't get rid of LL and his headhurting posting style I better just agree with it and follow him like a god. Should be interesting game.

Unvote
VOTE: JACK

Coz LL said so!

To pre-emptively argue in favor of Twito:
some of you will see this post as hugely scummy
Twito is a townie.

Please vote Jack.

[LuckayLuck]

/blows a kiss to Mariyta

I think you're townie. 8)

[LuckayLuck]

btw, i love the whole, everyone had one town tell, but jack, so he's scum logic we have going one

sherlock holmes at his finest

omg finally I find somebody who believes in my way
Thanks, Fritz

/knows

[LuckayLuck]

/knows

sigh

[LuckayLuck]

We may as well lynch someone who's been posting a lot, that way we find out if certain people are full of it.

I read

this

three times, and I don't get it.

If I were a vig, Jack probably wouldn't wake up tommorrow...

we can all be vigs if we vote for Jack
yay!

[LuckayLuck]

All, I have never gotten so many people to actually -follow- me before. It's really strange. :p

I therefore feel strongly pressured to actually be super-accurate this time. Therefore, the following

EXCEL SPREADSHEET OF DOOM

is actually quite well thought out by me.

[LuckayLuck]

Announcement: I am likely to lie low / observe until the folowing conditions are met:

1) One of the people who return from being inactive are replaced / people who I've requeted post more, post more on my chart give off mafia or townie tells.

2) Somebody reaches 8 votes for lynch.

PROD REQUEST: bird11111, Nightson, Pooky, Sotty7, and Thok

[LuckayLuck]

I worded the above post really badly. Let me re-do that...


I have done all I can with the information given. To move forward, I'm going to need to look into the inactive people's souls, or have those people I've requested to post more to actually post more so I can see into their souls.

At this moment in time, I like lynching Jack the most, though getting info from those who are inactive will be useful.

[LuckayLuck]

Three announcements:

1) Under NO* condition whatsoever will I be voting for Canuckle today (day1), tomorrow (day2), nor the day after tomorrow (day3).

2) If Canuckle hits 8 votes today, I will be all-out defending him.

3) If, by some fluke, my defense does not work on Canuckle and he DOES get lynched, I want it noted on the record that I peered into his soul and saw him as a townie. Maybe that will give me some more credibility in future days.


I don't have anything else of particular note at the moment, but though I'm quieter than normal, rest assured, I am still peering deep into your souls

[LuckayLuck]

I forgot to complete the *

*unless a cop investigates him as evil, he roleclaims the queen, whatever

actually, I wouldn't lynch him even if he roleclaimed the queen


anyways...Canuckle = townie, guys. Go for somebody else.

[LuckayLuck]

2) If Canuckle hits 8 votes today, I will be all-out defending him.

you're not all out defending him now?

I have not even begun to defend him

[LuckayLuck]

omg
I just wanted to welcome MoS to the game.

definitely somebody that I will be trying to hard to peer into the soul of but will be difficult to

go ahead, MoS, make my day.

[LuckayLuck]

On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.

Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.

Again, while I remember to say "I told you so..."

This is my exact reasoning for why Canuckle is townie (near 100%) as I've said over and over again.

1. His defense is townie-ish.
2. He is not WIFOM'ing.
3. Therefore, he is townie.

[LuckayLuck]

Ugh

no, there are not a lot of people who have a townie-ish defense
Canucklehead does have a townie-ish defense, however.

canucklehead is townietwotenitewnowteinwttowenie
It's gotten to the point where I will likely never re-evaluate my view on this unless it's a must-lynch round

I am -THAT- certain that canucklehead is townie.

[LuckayLuck]

Also, I am about 75% certain that at least one of Bogre / Jack is scum.

[LuckayLuck]

On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.

Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.

Again, while I remember to say "I told you so..."

This is my exact reasoning for why Canuckle is townie (near 100%) as I've said over and over again.

2. He is not WIFOM'ing.

I hope you're not saying he can't be WIFOM because he doesn't know what that means.

No, errr...he's townie because of your "exact reasoning" for believing that he is near 100% townie. Like I've said over and over again.

What the? I was actually sort of lost when I read this post, because it's something that I would post. You've only been agreeing with ME that Canuckle is townie (near 100%).

Anyways, we share the same belief that Canuckle is 100% townie. Which is good. But I'm not going to offer you masonry yet, because you could be doing this as scum. I'll see later.

[LuckayLuck]

*has a headache*

*just read the whole game with said headache*

*has a worse headache now*

*proxies opinion to Lackay Luck*

*

votes: Jack

*

omg

[LuckayLuck]

Unvote, Jack

I'm done with you for now, Jack.

Vote, Bogre

I feel really
really

reallyreally
really

good about Bogre

[LuckayLuck]

WOOHOO
I just realized my first newbie game on this site has finished, and I can point to it as a really big signal that I may not be a nutcase. I am a little more subtle since it's a newbie game, but you'll see me demonstrating the exact same actions that I've been doing here.

It's only 7 pages, and townie sweeps by lynching two mafia on day 1 and day 2. I correctly assess two villagers and by process of elimination nail the mafia, which is my style.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4194

[LuckayLuck]

You are an idiot.

/cry

[LuckayLuck]

Maz, I agree with you that Canuckle is transparent.

This transparency makes it obvious that he is a townie...

[LuckayLuck]

2) If Canuckle hits 8 votes today, I will be all-out defending him.

Have fun.

Unvote, Vote: Canuckle

. I don't like the way he talked about "If TSS is town".

Fiend. Anyone want to place that 8th vote on Canuckle?
I'll go into my Canuckle-is-definitely-a-townie schpiel.

[LuckayLuck]

1. I've seen you implement this in other games Pooky, and it's good. In fact, you'll notice it's the way I'm trying to play, but I'm not strong enough to form my own superhero team.
2. I can peer into people's souls and see their townie-ness.
3. I eat eggs&sausage for breakfast.
4. I am a townie. Oh, and I know who else is townie.
5. I play WoW and Warcraft3, plenty of experience with hero teams.
6. Supervillain is misunderstood. He is a townie.
7. Bogre.

[LuckayLuck]

WTF GUYS
canuckle is the cop
omg
wow
I'm sorry I couldn't get here to defend you earlier canuckle, I've been occupied / I'm typing this post from the airport right now

I implore you peasants to vote for Bogre

I will give you guys reasons to NOT vote for canuckle later. (other than the obvious reason that he claimed cop, but I was going to give you the reasons for why canuckle is a villager even before that)

[LuckayLuck]

I really don't want to vote Jack now anymore
Bogre is the play!

[LuckayLuck]

Twito is not scum. Scum strategy is not to blindly follow a person most deem insane, then later, completely 180 degree and not follow that person.

Once again, I advise a Bogre wagon, and I greatly dislike the Twito wagon. The bogre wagon has gotten some seort of eerily complete avoidance, which (usually) further indicates scum...

also:

Do your numbers apply to games of all sizes or do you scale it accordingly?
Why are you so certain of Ether's innocence? Is it her singing or your spreadsheet?
Same question about IH, except for the singing.
Why no mention of CES? He should be one of your options unless he's considered town.
"Can we vote for the silent speaker now?" was posted twice in closing your posts and now you've flipped over to Bogre. That's the explanation I'm most curious about now. Why is Bogre suddenly more suspicious than SilentSpeaker?

• Numbers scale accordingly.
  
• I'm convinced of Ether's innocence because of her innocent townie style of writing.
  
• I'm convinced of IH's innocence because of his inquisitive & understanding townie style of writing.
  
• CES is one of my suspects by prcoess of elimination.
  
• I have been temporarily diverted from the SilentSpeaker lynch because I find this post somewhat townie-ish: Post 139

[LuckayLuck]

I'm still not getting the wagon on Bogre, he just hasn't made any posts for us to tell. He should be on the neutral list according to LL, as he hasn't gotten a read, but he's siding with him being scum.

Why not Jack, if he's the other person on your suspicions LL? You don't feel like voting for him? You should be able to get a better read on him since he's posted. I find it curious that you are focusing on Bogre instead of Jack...

Jack is not scum. Why is he not scum?

Bogus, I don't find your claim genuine at all.

Unvote, Vote:Canucklehead17

Scum does not make this post.
By process of elimination, Bogre must be scum...(or at least has a good chance of being scum)

[LuckayLuck]

I'm a pumpkin that shoots lazer beams of it's ass. If I hit someone with a lazerbeam and this someone is part of Royal Family he/she will turn into a frog. I can kill twise a day and once at night. It's pretty cool role.

I have a couple points to make before Twito is lynched and his role is revealed. First, a disclaimer: I would make this post as either scum or townie. It's just facts.

1) I strongly felt that Twito was townie before that quote.
2) I defended Twito strongly as a townie.
3) I would no longer defend Twito after Twito made the above quote.

[LuckayLuck]

Sooo...I'm in...jail.
That's interesting.

Pro-village role is some sort of jailor? Well, thanks if you think I'm innocent
Canuckle's story truly is great and "too intricate to be a lie", I believe him.

The Portcullis is down, sealing the first exit.
The Drawbridge is lowered, allowing for one escape route.

is this background story or of significance? Just pointing it out.



I also feel like voting for Jack today.

Vote: Jack

or maybe the jail means I'm up for execution from the royal family somehow
oh dear.

[LuckayLuck]

Unvote

Upon further thought, we shouldn't lynch Jack tonight. Basically, another one day pass for Jack, because tomorrow, the entire Canuckle peeking Pooky+Maz Medias thing should clear itself up crystal clear, as well as the whole Jack story such that we can likely lynch Jack comfortably tomorrow when Canuckle dies tonight.

The IH vote is interesting because in another game with IH he's nearly a confirmed townie there and in this game he's acted quite differently. Perhaps further evidence that he's scum here. I'll determine later

[LuckayLuck]

Canuckle: Either your theory is correct (which I'm considering the most likely theory, but we can give Jack a one day pass)

or

the mafia is scared of the doctor

or

maybe the scum DID target you, and some serial killer killed someone else


4 scum in a 23 player game? I'm not familiar with game setups here, but that's pretty stacked in favor of town given that we have one cop right? So there's gotta be several strikes against me.

For example, I wouldn't be surprised if I was executed the next day in jail...(scum get 2 kills per night, maybe? One of the kills takes two turns to go off due to "jail"?)

One thing that I caught while scrolling back to the first page:


DAY ONE:

The Portcullis is down, sealing the first exit.
The Drawbridge is raised, sealing the second exit.
The Jail is empty, and locked.

DAY TWO:

The Portcullis is down, sealing the first exit.
The Drawbridge is lowered, allowing for one escape route.
The Jail is occupied by LuckayLuck, who cannot be lynched today.

Do some of you have some win condition which is to "escape the kingdom of Jellugi" perhaps?

[LuckayLuck]

Did you guys wagon Jack because the cop didn't investigate him?

As silly as it sounds, I still hold true to this - YES, I'm would wagon Jack because the cop didn't investigate him because canuckle's claim is so compelling to me.

Barring a doc protect, it is likely Canuckle will die. Are you trying to set up Jack for the lynch when our cop dies?

Yes, I am in fact setting up a Jack lynch when our cop dies.

[LuckayLuck]

Arafax has been very under-the-radar for me here and for him to suddenly go from virtually zero to lynch minus one in two pages seems a bit much to me (and imo, usually a lock of townie with some scum (one or two of the three?) on him.

I strongly dislike an Arafax lynch, I believe his roleclaim of peasant

[LuckayLuck]

Nah. IH isn't scum.
And...I'm going to play chicken with voting Jack until Canuckle dies. If Canuckle dies and he's a cop, I think I'll be voting Jack.

How about...

Vote: Bogre

?
Work with me here...

[LuckayLuck]

Actually,

unvote

, IH could be scum, depending on the next question...
I'm just going to ask a general question because I'm unsure of the balance of the game here

Do you guys think there could be two cop-type characters in a game this size?

[LuckayLuck]

I have not seen anything particularly scummy that IH has done.
In fact, I just read all the IH votes today.

NOBODY HAS A REASON.

So, I must believe that I actually am NOT that bad at Mafia, and that there is in fact no case against IH. Therefore, I must once more, fall back on my day1 read, which while slim, is at least better than a null to extremely slight townie read on IH.

Vote: Bogre

I don't particularly expect many to follow me onto this since nobody did on day1, but I am basically expressing my opinion as "Vote: somebody not IH," I'm going to stir things up a bit, let's see if we can actually get some dirt on IH, or another suspect up here.

[LuckayLuck]

Maz prevented his investigation. Canuckle/Maz as a scumpair?

This is impossible (I assign it a 0.0001% probability)
In fact, they're probably both townies.

[LuckayLuck]

Hi guys.
Still voting Bogre.
Still not voting IH.
Hum de dum.

[LuckayLuck]

no one else wants to bite on CESwagon?

I'm going to specifically respond that it is my stance that CES is a bad vote today, and probably is a bad vote tomorrow.

[LuckayLuck]

Am I the leading wagon at the moment? Just wondering.

btw guys
a scum would know if he was the leading wagon

don't vote IH

[LuckayLuck]

Agree with IH
do not believe it is the case here

[LuckayLuck]

Okay. I can't stand to see IH gone today.

Unvote Bogre

Vote: Jack

Jack is way better.

[LuckayLuck]

Luckay, what's the spreadsheet say now? It doesn't seem like you've really updated it since day one.

I've actually given up spreadsheets (on all mafia games, as well on the other site which I mainly play on). Mainly because, having a list of everybody in the game doesn't even matter. Now, I just give my strongest reads as people I wlil absolutely fight for.

Brief recap:

Canuckle - I still believe he is a cop
Pooky - obvious townie (peeked; why isn't pooky owning somebody?)
Ether - townie
Maz Medias - townie
IH - townie
CES - (slightly) townie


btw, I have a proposition

Pooky decides the lynch today.

[LuckayLuck]

Vote: Nightson

[LuckayLuck]

Unvote: Jack

Vote: Nightson

that is
because of pookster

[LuckayLuck]

blindly following

well, I do refuse to vote CES today

[LuckayLuck]

I prefer Nightson a great deal over CES, of the two.
It's not because I think Nightson is scum, but rather, because I think CES is a townie. I'll let Pooky handle the scumhunting.

See, look at these townie tells exhibited by CES:

I strongly dislike an Arafax lynch, I believe his roleclaim of peasant

We don't really care?

We're at lynch -1? Sweet.

Hammah hammah! =====[]!

Does a scum have the guts to say these things when we're about to lynch a townie?
I argue, no.

[LuckayLuck]

WIFOM.

yes please.

[LuckayLuck]

Do you like using logical fallacies to present your case?

You're voting for CES because:
1. His vote choices have been bad.
2. CES has been shirking on his spreading of wisdom.

You have some history with him, I don't. Treating him as an unknown, I "feel" that he's a townie. I see where you're coming from, I disagree that we should lynch CES based on your two reasons. I feel that we should instead lynch Nightson, because Pooky's way of finding scum is legit - he went after the two people who Twito didn't mention. Scum usually doesn't mention one scum partner at least, so this is a fine method. I feel that CES is a townie, yes because of WIFOM arguments, or one could call it "feel", therefore I vote Nightson.


Anyyyywayyys

IH is a terrible wagon.

[LuckayLuck]

TSS; MOS's post, given it's context, was actually townie-ish.
For serious

[LuckayLuck]

I think that those who are AGAINST voting IH should defeinitely be voting for Nightson. Gogo?

[LuckayLuck]

• Item 1:
  Unvote; Vote: Thok
  
  
• Item 2: Yes, I am voting Thok almost purely because Pooky voted Thok.
  
• Item 3: Yes, I'm aware that it looks suspicious. Go away. Thok wasn't on my townie list.
  
• Item 4: Vote Thok.

[LuckayLuck]

Pooky absolutely is not claiming cop.

[LuckayLuck]

Okay guys, I want to get some movement going.
I =really= don't want to see IH get lynched. However, you already know my stance on this. So, I'm going to ask everyone do one thing:


1. Vote for IH (If you really think IH is scum.)
2. Vote for Thok (If you don't think IH is scum.)
3. Re-vote someone you are absolutely adament is scum, if you're neither on IH or Thok.

Letting IH get lynched as a townie like this would give us practically no information, so do the above.

[LuckayLuck]

We still have a ways to go before deadline, so I don't really like how Luckay's pushing for a lynch. Especially now that he's abandoned the spreadsheet of doom.

I'm just saying that if we were to be at deadline now (and things certainly are not moving at all) and we had these bandwagons:

IH – 5 – Jack, Canucklehead17, Cogito Ergo Sum, Fritzler, Thok

Cogito Ergo Sum – 2 – Save the Dragons, HackerHuck
Jack – 2 – IH, the silent speaker
Nightson – 2 – LuckayLuck, VitaminR
LuckayLuck – 1 – Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin – 1 – Ether
VitaminR – 1 – Maz Medias

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch!

Not Voting – 4 – Bogre, Nightson, PookyTheMagicalBear, TheEyeofMordor

we would not get a lot of information.

Things are moving pretty slowly, I want to sort of...get people in position. So yeah. Vote for IH, or vote for Thok, or if you really really feel like someone is scum repeat your vote for them and say that you really really think that person is scum. That's my request. The secondary request is basically not to have IH lynched with something ridiculous like a 5 person majority vote.

And, by the way, IH is a townie.
Just letting you guys know.

[LuckayLuck]

Prod those not voting (Bogre, Nightson, TheEyeofMordor)

[LuckayLuck]

I think I want him to explain himself.

I'm a new guy, an outsider from a mafia fan from another forum which has a radically different style. I came in with that style, and it was a bit much. Sorry. Anyways, I'm mellowing out, trying to be more "normal."

Still though, if this 5-4-3-2-1 (literally, look at the votes at the time of this post) voting spread for today's lynch, after a month, is standard for this forum, then sorry for intruding and making an outcry. However, I don't feel that if the lynch were to happen now with the lead vote-getter IH (5) getting lynched and coming up townie, it would give us much information. IH eerily rose up to 8 votes so quickly in the first 3 days, I felt so strongly that something was fishy and that he had been townie-ish in the first 2 days that I had to derail it, which is an action you're all attacking me for, but...y'know, my action really is valid here guys. Those first 8 votes on IH were done reasonless and eerily quickly. Just let it be on the record that I tried extremely hard to derail an IH wagon, and that I really think IH is a townie here, if he gets lynched and appears pro-townie. Yes yes, there's the chance he appears scum and I look foolish. Yes yes, there's the chance that I'm a scum and already know. Blah blah blah. Hopefully at least my sleuthing gets some credibility to it?

[LuckayLuck]

If you really think IH is townie, why are you putting so little effort into saving him from lynch?

Really? I thought I had put more effort into it...

To recap, though:

• I'm convinced of IH's innocence because of his inquisitive & understanding townie style of writing.
  
• A scum would know if he was the leading wagon. IH didn't.
  
• That quick bandwagon at the beginning of today was crazy weird. Nobody had a good explanation behind it. Nobody had an explanation for it.

Now the interesting thing is Thok has finally "un-neglected" the game and he's coming in with a pretty townie string of posts. However, it could be too-little-too-late for him...if I switch off of Thok and onto this other guy with zero votes it could mean the end of IH...though I still might...plus, that "Best Mafia Performance" tag below his name is really making me twitch.

But then again, Thok's had a terrible mafia performance, if he was mafia. Hmmm...I'm starting to convince myself out of a Thok lynch.

I guess I'll get an interest gauge here. Anybody up for Bogre or Fritzler? They're both close number twos to the Thok. Here, let me get the wagon rolling...

Unvote

Vote: Fritzler

[LuckayLuck]

Lemme explain more of why I moved off of Thok, and the little mind games I'm playing through in my head, due to that "Best Mafia Performance" tag.

You see, if Thok was actually a mafia here and got lynched, it would be a terrible mafia performance. At the same point, however, Thok basically had zero suspicion on him until Pooky sniffed him out. And now Thok's back now that he has suspicion on him. But that would still be a terrible mafia performance. Hmm...plus, if I would think someone who had the Best Mafia Performance tag would be cheered on by fellow mafia, and an AFK-ish mafia style is not worthy of a best mafia performance tag at all. Therefore, I have to conclude that Thok is not mafia because of the Best Mafia Performance tag.

Seriously, that's what's going through my head at the moment.
So yeah, that's why I'm voting Fritzler and am actually not liking a Thok vote that much. Unless someone wants to rebuttal me and says "hey, Thok is an under-the-radar-afk scum all the time" in which case I'll go back to Thok

[LuckayLuck]

I actually have some free time, so I'm going through Twito's posts again.

Actually if you'd read all of his posts

I did read all his posts.

He makes your head hurt?

Yes I really got a headache during reread.

You smell a cop claim coming? I don't, as I've seen more of his playstyle, but I'm going to go with it wouldn't be illogical for him to be a cop from some things he's said, and it's a chance for you to lynch him instead of wasting a nightkill on him.

My first game with him. And..

This entire conversation between Twito and IH is not a scum-scum conversation. I mean, it even further clears IH as town. Why the hell are so many people voting for IH?

I just read everything since page 2.. All I got is a headache.

LL has to die.

unvote
Vote: LL

...


Oh yeah and for the reasons why he has to die:

- I smell a cop claim coming
- He is completely irrational
- He gave me a headache


...

And obviously that points to him being scum.

- He is scum

I hate pointing out things that make myself look townie, since that decreases its actual effectiveness, but...seriously, it's glaringly obvious to anyone who's looked over this dead scum's posts. I'm like a super-clear townie here. Do you really think Twito does this...and...

If I can't get rid of LL and his headhurting posting style I better just agree with it and follow him like a god. Should be interesting game.

Unvote
VOTE: JACK

Coz LL said so!

and then Twito 180 degrees his opinion of me (if I was a scum partner, this would be pure craziness)? He makes about 10 or so more posts about explicitly following me and me being his god or whatever. Btw, the fact that he 180 degreed me and followed me onto JACK tells a lot of tales about Jack too, it clears Jack as a townie pretty heavily.

I still think Vote: TSS is a good target, but I also think vote: IH is a good target too because of his attack on Twito.

How is my attack on Twito any more scummy than your defense of him? I fail to see it.

Coz I'm pro-town?

lol so I'm re-reading Twito, and IH/Twito have so many interactions. IH calls Twito scum, Twito lamely defends. This is a classic Townie(IH)-Scum(Twito) interaction.

A sarcasm detector.

There's

a useful invention.

man i had to read that like 3 times to get it

i feel pathetic

Already read it 3 times.. don't get it.. better stop reading it so I don't feel more pathetic..

This is weak, but it sort of feels like scum-buddies laughing it up and sympathizing with each other (points to fritzler=scum)

1. LL keeps going on and on about knowing who's townie and who's not. Obviously, as we all know, the odds of lynching scum on the first day are low. So if LL is

sooo

positive that he(she)'s right, then why not give it a chance? If Jack turns out to be a townie, then we can finally have a reason to knock off LL.

Just gonna answer to this first point:
Are you scum planning a doublekill?
First who LL says today and tomorrow LL if he is wrong? Which you would know as scum btw.

Canucklehead not defencing himself but instead attacking the one voting him in attempt to make charges againts himself dissapear gives me scumwibes.

Just to point out, Canucklehead is a townie. I already knew that, but...just saying.

Happened to me in the beginning. When I started playing on mafiascum I was so bored of games being so slow and used to have sigged that I try to have quick days in all my games since I was lynched for that couple of times.

Perhaps you should try playing chat mafia or consider looking for a mafia site with a faster pace?

Alternatively, you could try being more aggressive. You know, bandwagon, attack people, hunt for inconsistancies, etc.

Stupidity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I have much more sympathy for Jack's complaint about long days, since at least he's made some attempt to vote/push things. As far as I can tell, Twito's decided not to put in any effort and is now leeching onto LuckayLuck.

unvote Hackerhuck, vote Twito

Why did you quote my post without sayign really anything about it?
No I haven't done that anymore for like 6 months if that actually was a reply for me.

Oh dear. This looks like a Townie(Thok) + Scum(Twito) interaction too...

i liked it

Secound that.

'sup fritzler
this is the second time Twito sympathizes and jokes around with you



to summarize, I'm gleaning the following information from knowing that Twito was scum:

• LuckayLuck is definitely a townie
  
• IH is definitely a townie
  
• Canuckle is definitely a townie
  
• Well...yeah, okay. Thok is probably a townie
  
• Jack is probably a townie
  
• Fritzler is sort of scummy

I really like a Fritzler vote, guys.

[LuckayLuck]

While we're on the subject of Twito...
On day1, I was actually fairly surprised when Twito came up scum.

There's actually a couple of people that are cleared pretty significantly here...

• Mariyta: key Twito pusher, plus specifically insults the Bogre wagon. Definite villager.
  
• Thok: key Twito bandwagon rider, plus specifically insults the IH wagon. Pretty clear villager.
  
• TSS: key Twito voter, plus specifically insults the IH wagon. Jumps off the inevitable Twito lynch to vote (lol) TheEyeOfMordor. Extremely clear villager.
  
• Ether: key Twito voter. Plus, her posts are just villagery.

wow, this is a lot of villagers guys.
I actually feel really good about a lot of these people, let me compile some list...

[LuckayLuck]

The Official "You're a townie" list!

In order of townieness.

• LuckayLuck
  
• Canuckle
  
• Pooky - Peeked Innocent
  
• Maz Medias - Peeked Innocent
  
• IH
  
• Thok
  
• TheSilentSpeaker
  
• Ether
  
• Jack

I'm actually extremely certain of every single person on this list, and am willing to defend them heavily.

So, the other 9 are here...

The "Maybe You're Not A Townie" list. Those on the top are people I actually think are townies, but y'know...maybe they're not.

• Corgito Ergo Sum -- HOWEVER, you specifically emphasize hammering townies, and you specifically insult my townie making posts as useless, when I think I'm right...so as a scum, you'd be afraid of insulting me liek this. So therefore, you are probably a townie.
  
• Mastermind of Sin -- Same reasoning as CES, pretty much
  
• ViatminR
  
• Bogre
  
• Save the Dragons
  
• HackerHuck
  
• Nightson
  
• TheEyeofMordor
  
• Fritzler -- omg scum lol

okay guys, I have gained my conviction in this moment of reflection
absolutely do NOT lynch any of the following who are on the hotseat at the moment:

• Jack
  
• Thok
  
• IH

absolutely DO lynch the following

• Fritzler

[LuckayLuck]

I probably should have done this stuff on day 2 so we didn't lynch Arafax and we didn't have all these obvious villagers up for lynch today
I think I was really busy during those day 2 / early day 3 days

anyways, that's in the past
let's hug/make up/vote Fritzler

[LuckayLuck]

oh. A traitor is like a convertible villager.
that's cool.
stupid terminology
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

aslkecyuakslduyflsdufyglkyaslknyuku
iwannakillsomeonenowaldkfshadlkfjh

Unvote

Vote: Thok

[LuckayLuck]

btw I was playing off the belief that a traitor was someone who knew the mafia's roles and the mafia knew his role, but the town didn't need to kill him to win

that's my exeprience with the term "traitor"
ANYWAYS
apparently it's a convertible villager
die

[LuckayLuck]

okay, fine, so I googled mafia traitor. I found one result from mafiascum...

The Mafia Traitor tries to keep the Mafia from getting lynched by voting. He knows who the Mafia are, but the Mafia does not know who the Mafia Traitor is. At any time in the game, the Mafia can choose to recruit The Mafia Traitor. The Mafia Traitor appears innocent to Cops until he is recuited by the Mafia.

So yeah, I'm sure there's variations where the mafia traitor doesn't know who the mafia are, and I'm pretty sure the mafia don't know who the mafia traitor is. But...let's suppose the mafia traitor did know who the mafia were. If that's the case...ARGHHHH THOK IS A TOWNIE AGAIN
omgomgomg

meh

Unvote

Vote: Fritzler

[LuckayLuck]

assessment of my scumminess/townieness depends more on the contents of Twito's role PM than on my actions

that's how I roll
think of it this way: (and this is also in addressing the condition of me following pooky, admittedly, blindly)

should I be following someone who is 100% (or close eto that) villager and voting the person he does? This can't be =bad=, can it? After all, that person has his own valid reasons for suspecting that person. And yes, I checked my own suspicions before I placed my vote, and I did not think that person was a VILLAGER (thok) persay, so I therefore voted alongside him.

However, in my later analysis of Twito's posts (and why nobody did this before me, I find completely bizzarre), I found that if Twito KNEW who was the scum (and this seems like a valid assumption to me) then Thok is a clear villager. Plus, Thok's posts when he came back are villagery.

I've repeated my REASONS for why I think IH is a villager, I'm surprised you haven't caught this: I think IH is a villager because he didn't know he was #1 on the lynch, his posts SOUND villagery, the way his bandwagon shot up was bizzarre


I feel extremely frustrated because I feel like there's nothing I can do to convince you guys not to vote for IH or Thok, because you all think I'm in crazyland. I'm not frustrated because people I think are townies are getting lynched, but I'm frustrated that everyone's just sorta not providing a coutner-argument. Yes, the entire "but a mafia traitor is this this and this" is a valid counter-argument, but I counter-counter-argumented that the traitor knew the mafia roles but the mafia didn't know his role. So...anyways, that's my official stance. I feel like we should vote for Fritzler. One of IH or Thok are probably going to get lynched, I'll be sad, they'll be townies, you guys still won't believe me (possibly even think I'm a mafia for having this knowledge), life will go on.

[LuckayLuck]

FYI, two of the main ways I play of looking for scum are this:

1) Looking for who the scum killed. The scum killed people for a reason. Look up those people who were killed's posts. Take those opinions as your own, since they come from a 100% townie. That townie could be wrong, but at least you know for sure that they're a valid opinion.

2) Look for lynched scum's posts. Scum behave in certain manners who definitely can incriminate / clear certain other scum or townies.


Yes, you can do the following:

he should've looked at your actions to see if there was anything generally scummy,

and yes, that's probably people's #1 way of finding scum, but it's not mine. Purely playstyle. I find that looking at past history is better than looking at a potential actor's posts. Mafia can act good. Good can act mafia-ish with strange posts. So I look at guaranteed history. I also look at certain qualities which I've found are more good-ish than mafia-ish in practice.

ANYWAYS
Lynch Fritzler, don't lynch IH & Thok (& CES & MoS).

[LuckayLuck]

It's so frustrating to know that the town is set on a road to disaster, since if I just stand by and let a townie (IH or Thok or CES) get lynched tonight, some other townie will get hit tomorrow night (Thok, IH, Jack, etc), because we learn close to nothing from lynching the townies IH or Thok.

Jack, CES, Fritzler, Thok, TheEyeOfMordor: assume the following. IH gets lynched, he is a townie, no night-kill occurs. Who next?

Pooky, Canuckle: Thok gets lynched and is a townie. No Night-kill occurs. who next?

STD, HackerHuck, TSS: CES gets lynched and is a townie. No night-kill occurs. who next?


I'm hoping some people in that crowd somehow say "Fritzler"
Other acceptable answers include, but are not limited to:

Nightson
Bogre


sigh...

[LuckayLuck]

*out of breath*

please...

don't...

lynch...

IH

*pant*
*wheeze*
*cry*

[LuckayLuck]

<insert hopeful pitch that some people will suddenly see the light that fritzler may be mafia>

[LuckayLuck]

One last IH defense push, since the talk about Twito's role just came up again.

Twito was a Mafia Traitor. I am going to assume that the mafia traitor knew the mafia's role, and that the mafia did not know the traitor's role.

Please look at the interactions Twito had with IH:

Actually if you'd read all of his posts

I did read all his posts.

He makes your head hurt?

Yes I really got a headache during reread.

You smell a cop claim coming? I don't, as I've seen more of his playstyle, but I'm going to go with it wouldn't be illogical for him to be a cop from some things he's said, and it's a chance for you to lynch him instead of wasting a nightkill on him.

My first game with him. And..

He hasn't said anything hardly, and then comes back in,

Yes idd. I've been away and like I said I re-read the game since page 2. So obviously I haven't said anything since that before now.

I mean, I'm not sure how to explain it other than that this is not how someone who knows that IH is scum would talk to him in. The bit-by-bit quote-response-quote-response? The future Twito opinion of:

I'm getting the feeling IH might be scum based on the difference in his post between this game and other game.

?? and this wasn't a random shot in the dark, the startings of an IH wagon were brewing here, Twito was lighting the fire, knowing IH was a scum? No way!!


If you believe that Twito knew who the scum's roles were (as typical of a mafia traitor, I believe), then you must must must not vote for IH. Someone like Fritzler, perhaps? Hell, anyone, just not IH.


Okay, I've really ran out of material for defending IH, if you put it all together, I think it's like 4 pages in total. If you're voting for IH and really are not swayed by anything, then...meh.

Well IH buddy, I tried.

[LuckayLuck]

Meanwhile, turnabout and fair play and so forth: Luckay, suppose Fritzler were lynched and turned up town; who would your next suspect be and why, and is this a different answer from what would be if Fritzler were lynched and scum?

I would go for someone from this list:

• ViatminR
  
• Bogre
  
• Save the Dragons
  
• HackerHuck
  
• Nightson
  
• TSS
  
• TheEyeofMordor
  
• Fritzler -- omg scum lol

The most likely people I would push for include Bogre and Nightson
the fact that I would push for people who haven't posted much isn't a coincidence, as much as I feel most of the people who have posted a lot are townies (not because they posted a lot, but because of the content in the posts)

[LuckayLuck]

If Fritzler came up scum I would probably have a different list and someone different to push for, since I'd have extra information

[LuckayLuck]

yes, it's slight, but it's better than the other 7

[LuckayLuck]

This is going to seem completely ridiculous, but you have to see where I'm coming from here - I think the top bandwagons are so terrible and I pretty much

know

that if IH gets lynched he'll come up townie, I

nearly know

that if CES gets lynched he'll come up townie, and MoS and Thok I'm both

pretty sure

will come up townie (sure enough that I would rather lynch nobody then lynch them, in fact)

so, guess what guys...

unvote

vote: No Lynch

maybe this will gather some support :p

[LuckayLuck]

IH, this is terrible...I know you're a villager, and everyone will know you're a villager when you die, but I can't stand your main suspicion of Jack...

IH, answer this. How is this Twito-Jack interaction possible?

If I can't get rid of LL and his headhurting posting style I better just agree with it and follow him like a god. Should be interesting game.

Unvote
VOTE: JACK

Coz LL said so!

and then Twito 180 degrees his opinion of me (if I was a scum partner, this would be pure craziness)? He makes about 10 or so more posts about explicitly following me and me being his god or whatever. Btw, the fact that he 180 degreed me and followed me onto JACK tells a lot of tales about Jack too, it clears Jack as a townie pretty heavily.

[LuckayLuck]

IH, I've also looked up your posts on Jack, and I disagree, I don't find Jack's behavior through those posts scummy.

[LuckayLuck]

MoS, I think you're misinterpreting the intent of my post.
I trust IH as a villager right now, I also think that Jack is a villager, I want to know what IH will say in response to my main belief that Jack is a villager, I'm wondering if he'll perhaps change his views, or whatnot. It'd make me feel a lot better if IH went something like:

"wow, yes, I definitely missed that, Jack may actually be a villager"

[LuckayLuck]

I could also take something like:

"hey, this post doesn't really clear Jack, because X. C'mon, vote Jack with me!"

if IH did this, I would definitely push a Jack wagon
but that Twito voting Jack interaction is what's stopping me

[LuckayLuck]

Why does Twito voting Jack clear Jack? It's called a distancing tactic.

the particular manner in Twito voting Jack does not distance at all. Yes, I'm aware that scum vote for other scum, but the WAY he voted Jack. Completely casually. "okay, fine, luckay, I'll follow you. Let's go to Jack!" that's just not the way scum votes for scum (imo)

If Twito is the lost prince and didn't know his alignment.

THIS is the one thing that keeps bothering me
if Twito didn't know ANYTHING AT ALL, then yes, a Jack lynch would be completely valid. PLUS, I'm not very familiar with the entire mafia traitor role. However, couldn't Lost Prince have a backstory such as...

"You have been away for a long time from your royal family A, B, C, and D...you have come back, but they don't recognize you..."

something like that. Yeah, I know he could have all sorts of backstories. Sigh...if only I knew what information the Mafia Traitor was given.



I could definitely be following a completely faulty assumption that the Lost Prince knew the Royal Family of Jellugi. However, I'm going to be following that assumption. Under that assumption, I will not be voting Jack for a long time until we get other revelations.

IH, sorry, I know you're a townie, and I'll take your Jack attack into consideration, but I can't vote for Jack

[LuckayLuck]

If Twito is the lost prince and didn't know his alignment.

okay, so I'm dropping this argument

Or bussing.

I don't believe in this because I genuinely believed twito voted alongside with me because I voted for a townie

Or Jack is perhaps even in a different mafia group.

Or an SK.

these theories are ridiculous, given the amount of kills that've been happening


IH, sorry, even after you die and show up townie, I will be defending Jack.

[LuckayLuck]

unvote no lynch

vote Thok

last ditch effort
IH is a townie, about 99% of the time. Thok is a townie, about 95% of the time. I'll play the odds.

[LuckayLuck]

Can I PLEASE see some logic for the IH lynch?

I really could have used your support before March 10th, buddy

[LuckayLuck]

Oh, he replaced on the 8th
sorry

anyways, this IH lynch does not bode well