Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[kilmenator]

/confirm...

[kilmenator]

sorry guys it has taken so long to post. i couldnt get into the board for about a week. upon reading of course in the first two pages there isnt much so i will withhold my vote for now. i need a chance to sit down and actually read so that i can figure out who is who. i always have a hard time with that in the beginning of games.

[kilmenator]

ok, without much to go on in the first few pages. The person I find most scummy at this point is Shadow Lurker. She seems much to defensive with just one vote on her. So for right now I will

Vote: ShadowLurker.

Still watching this game, along with my others.

[kilmenator]

not that it matters, but where the heck did you get a vote for me out of all that was said when nothing that was said was me or really had anything to do with me? just curious... cause you totally said nothing up there except wtf...

[kilmenator]

sorry guys, that post was in regards to SL's long post on page four where she confirm voted me with no purpose and on the very next page she jumped off...

(i tried to post before i finished reading, i usually type my ideas into the box at the bottom while i am reading and then work from there as to if my ideas change or not, but that time i hadnt finished reading the next page before i posted my idea. so to clarify that post above has everything to do with SL's long post on page 4)

[kilmenator]

wow! my vote has been confirmed that it is in the right place.

[kilmenator]

well, being that it was just the last page and i even stated what page it was i would wonder why she wouldnt know, especially since it was not only a vote, but she was confirming a vote on me...i would assume the latter, not that she forgot she voted me.

[kilmenator]

how was me voting for SL scummy in any sense? The logic of the lying vote or whatever is WIFOM... so why would it matter if that was why I was voting her? So far the only person I really get any sort of scum vibes from is SL so that is where my vote is.

[kilmenator]

Umm, ShadowLurker lies as town. In Leper mafia he claimed Kamikaze when he was vanilla.

just because someone does something in another game does not mean that they are any less scummy if they do it in this game. to me, it doesnt matter if SL lies in other games, if she does in this game it is scummy. therefore i find her scummy no matter how she plays in other games.

and to SL's...

kilmenator wrote:
how was me voting for SL scummy in any sense? The logic of the lying vote or whatever is WIFOM... so why would it matter if that was why I was voting her? So far the only person I really get any sort of scum vibes from is SL so that is where my vote is.


That made as much sense as Max does on drugs. When does this sentence ever make sense: " The logic of the lying vote or whatever is WIFOM..." ?? Even if it did, WIFOM and "lying vote" don't seem to be good reasons for voting someone.

my sentence was a reply to whoever said that why would you lie about something that could so easily be disproved. my point was no matter what your reply was it could be taken as WIFOM logic, which means it could go either way... for scum or for town... and, lying would be a good enough reason for me to vote for someone.

SL's play is not pro-town therefore that is where my vote will stay.

[kilmenator]

my understanding of WIFOM is that it could be a scum tell or a townie tell, or someone could say..."If i were scum i would never have done that"... and someone else could say, "If i were town, i would never have done that" so that was my point, that you could say, i would never have done it as scum...

and about the vote... if it was a confirm vote did you think you were already voting me? because it would not have made sense to confirm vote if you were nto voting me, and then what was the point in that instead of saying FOS or something else? and why go through the trouble of bolding if it wasnt a real vote?

[kilmenator]

I dont think it was the generating discussion part that got targetted. I think it was the way in which you generated the discussion. Why not throw out a No Lynch or something like that to generate discussion instead of how you were acting? And honestly I dont like how turbo seems to always be coming to the defense of SL. Maybe it is nothing, but I think that SL should defend herself because she is the one who put herself in this situation.

So, on to new topics. I would like to hear more from other people, and would like to hear their takes on what is going on.

[kilmenator]

turbo said:

I like the way you arbitrarily suggest no lynch as a better alternative to confirm voting somebody you aren't voting. Both are 'classically scummy' moves that are used early game solely to get things going, so I don't know why one would be better than the other. I get the feeling you don't either, and made that post up as you went.

ummm... no lynch isnt always a scummy move. and i have NEVER before been in a game where someone confirm voted someone they were not even voting. and by what you just said, what SL did was a classically scummy move, why then are you voting me and not SL? and why have you been defending SL all game when you yourself just said that it was a scummy move?
i am comfortable with where my vote is and has been most of the game and could defintely see a turbo-SL pair as scum.

[kilmenator]

oh, and sorry SL for referring to you as a female...

[kilmenator]

still here...

[kilmenator]

SL, why do you always seem to be sticking up for Friday?

[kilmenator]

sorry about that SL i meant to say turbo not friday. it has been a long week..already and it is only tuesday! ahh... you always seem to be sticking up for turbo... i need a reread terribly!

[kilmenator]

yet another unsubstantial post by SL which warrants me to vote for you. which will then cause you to vote me because it seems you like to vote hop a lot. and being that i dont really know who to vote for between you, friday, and patrick. i will..

vote: ShadowLurker

[kilmenator]

it looks to me like you have voted at least 4 times first ozy, then falcone i think, then ozy, then friday... and when you look at only your posts, they come basically in that order... and then there is the issue of the confirm vote on me that wasnt really a vote...hmmm.. anyway, my vote on you was because i dont like your unsubstantial posts that come with just quotes of other and WTF...

and i wasnt ready to put either patrick or chess at 3 votes because i honestly dont want to spark anothe debate about whether 3 votes is scummy or not and so forth. so SL got my vote. obviously SL isnt in any serious trouble since i am the only one voting for him. anyway... my logic...

[kilmenator]

give me a break... first of all, this game is so messed up because in another game i am in there are like 2 or three players who are here too... so i keep getting names messed up... i you will read the thread you will see why i would be voting patrick and chess because my reasons are listed in another post. i didnt put them at three because i find the discussion of a third vote useless and didnt want to spark it yet again. if i didnt want to take the heat for a third vote then i never would have mentioned it. i think that you and SL are scum buddies or one of you is buddying up to the other because at least one of you are scum and you will take the other down with you. and, to answer the question as to why i think SL is defending you it is because it seems that when you two post you post very similar ideas or you kind of attack the people who are attacking you guys. and example would be if attack SL then you (turbo) attack me. or visa versa. anyway, just my thoughts.

[kilmenator]

oh my goodness, i so totally have this game confused with my other game i am in... wow! let me reread and then outline. if you look in road to rome newbie 288, i think you will see what i am talking about with mixing up the games and stuff... so sorry guys!

[kilmenator]

no i wasnt avoiding looking scummy at all! i didnt want to deal with another bunch of pages of stu[id arguments that go no where! let me reread. i think i might have some apologies coming to people because i have them confused! give me a bit please!

[kilmenator]

ok guys, my brother in law whom i havent seen in a long time flew in last night,, i will need a couple of days to reread and get my thoughts together. until then i will unvote, no sense in having my vote somewhere i dont think it will later... so give me a bit, i am going to print off the thread (yes i know how much that is) and get a good reread in in the meantime.

[kilmenator]

whoops again

unvote

[kilmenator]

i apologize ahead of time for this super long post.

ok, now for my apologies to basically everyone. first of all, i am sorry chadow lurker for totally attacking you with basically no premise whatsoever. for some reason, i had you confused with STD in newbie 288. so sorry for throwing mud at you. so sorry to anyone i attacked. basically here is the deal. i read my games, but now that i am in three games for the first time i was confusing them. when i was talking about chess and patrick, that was totally the other game, when i said the deal about the three vote thing, what was also the other game. the reason i said something about the third vote and not going there was because in the other newbie game i am in, there was like a bunch of discussion over whether or not it was scummy in a newbie game to put a third on someone, i said i didnt want to bring that up again because in that game it was a bit crazy.

so now for my opinion on stuff, here goes.
1. shadowlurker- i dont like how many of his posts consist of basically quotes and three letters. i would feel much better if he just quoted and then explained why he disagreed, this is not altogether scummy, but it may be a way to be posting and making comments, while not really making comments.

2. ozy- i dont find him particularly scummy, but i dont like that he seems to be lurking (not the biggest lurker i know, but still lurking) and seems quick to point out that there are others who are lurking worse, i also dont like this quote by him. maybe i am wrong, but it seems to me that he is saying, he shouldnt have changed his vote for fear that he would get votes on him, which to me is a lousy reason not to change your vote if you feel that you should. why would you worry how many votes you might get if you have no reason to hide, or was it more so that attention was not drawn to him?

I changed my vote once, and Turbo did it before me, although perhaps I shouldn't have, since he got two votes placed on him after he did.

3. falcone/adele-falcone really didnt say much but to disagree with SL a lot. much of what he said was valid, but i dont really see him as scummy. i would like to hear from adele, as that could change my thinking.

4. friday- man, how random. reading his posts give me a headache because they are so all over the place. i dont really like the use of his language, but being that he was overly defensive about it i porbably shouldnt have bought it up. friday doesnt really say much but seems to go after rosso for not really giving a reason as to why he wants someone lynched. to me that is a very petty reason for voting for someone. i guess maybe i have played with BJ too much because that doesnt really bother me.

5. geraintm- not much to say, seems pro-town. seems to be very aware of who is in the game and what is going on. i like that he doesnt seem to post crap just to talk, but then again that could be bad too because we dont get much of a read on him.

6.MBL/sotty- ok, MBL hasnt said much, other than a vote with no reasons- and not really much of a read on sotty before that. a vote on bird, six posts from her with basically nothing in any of them. the only post that would even maybe have some substance would be when she talks about the SL and Falcone thing. but that really isnt much.

7. patrick- seems pro-town in that he doesnt really attack people without cause. he seems to have a good idea of what is going on in the game and is very aware of discrepencies in peoples play. many posts with lots of opinion so seems pro-town at this point.

8. rosso- not liking his play at all. he is all over the place with votes and just jumps around without giving reason at all to his why. on Dec. 7 says he will rehash things tomorrow, but then nothing until Dec. 15 when he casts a vote with no reason. i dont mind the let's lynch so and so, but dont like that he says it is to get reactions and yet fails to react at all to others reaction, so to me it seems like he is trying to get others to appear scummy, while acting crazy, but not overly scummy. the only thing that settles his acts with me is the fact that mert(confirmed scum) votes him, not much but worth the comment i think.

9. turbo- not overly scummy. lots to read from though which is a good thing when things get going. not afraid to be controversial, which is good because that makes me think that he is town who is willing to go for scum. although that could also be a cover. also, voted by mert, again, not worth much but worth the comment.

so, with all that being said. give me a bit to think over what i have said. i gave opinions based on each persons posts individually, so i need to think about how it all works out in my head. thanks for being so patient with me and so sorry for the mix-up. again, these are just my thoughts taken as parts without looking at the whole.

You "killmenator" people at night, don't you?

good scum name, but no- it is taken from part of my last name.

[kilmenator]

turbo- quite honestly, what i did took way to much time and i wanted a little time to digest what i had posted. still need a little time to think it over, but my vote will probably land on either rosso or ozy. but i still need a little time to process. so give me some time to think, but expect a vote in the next day.

[kilmenator]

ok, for now, with my thoughts semi-cleared... and christmas on the way along with a deadline that hopefully will soon be extended or removed. i want to vote MrBuddyLee, he hasnt said much accept a post with no logic, also, bird111 had been voting him and maybe bird had some info on him. bird111 was confirmed town as the watchman, so for now that is where my vote is.

[kilmenator]

crap

vote:MrBuddyLee

[kilmenator]

guess your right about the day start, and no no one has claimed but the mod killed bird and told us he was the protown watchman, maybe i am confusing what a watchman is. i forgot we started in day, regardless, maybe bird had a sixth sense, and i dont like how MBL is lurking...

[kilmenator]

SL what do you think about MBL? I would like to know your thought there... since you outlined the other votes and what you thought.

[kilmenator]

alright, i will be away till tuesday so dont expect to much posting from me during that time. merry christmas all...

[kilmenator]

sorry there ozy, i made a mistake when i said that, i had thought mert voted rosso, but rosso bad coined (whatever that means) mert...

[kilmenator]

ok, lots going on here now. yay! my thoughts... i dont really like ozy's play much but am not comfortable with him not being around, so i really dont want to put a vote on him especially not knowing his role. i also dont like that patrick doesnt find it a big deal to put a vote on him and uses the logic that if ozy had a power role he would have told us already.

my biggest concern of all is MBL who has posted once or twice, has now picked up his prod and yet still has nothing to say with all of this going on. we didnt even get a "hey guys im busy, will post later". so while i am not a huge fan of going after lurkers, MBL really needs to put some kind of opinion in here, we know he is around yet he fails to post...

[kilmenator]

more to come a little later, need to do some thinking and my husband is asking about supper...

[kilmenator]

i also dont like that patrick doesnt find it a big deal to put a vote on him and uses the logic that if ozy had a power role he would have told us already.

Actually I said the opposite:

Not really. If he has a powerole, he would try and keep it hidden if at all possible, not reveal it the minute he has a few votes. As with a newbie game, a claim should be the last line of defence so to speak.

sorry there Patrick, this is the quote I meant to be responding to

why the push towards a claim now though, ozy has been on 4 votes, enough to get him lynched if we go to a deadline, for ages. If Ozy had felt under threat wouldn't he have mentioned a role earlier?

ok, so here are my thoughts, I also think Ozy needs to claim so that we can decide about a lynch. Ozy hasnt had the best defense and right now appears to be scummiest (although MBL IMO is pretty scummy too). If I had to chose right now, I would lynch Ozy, but I dont feel comfortable not knowing his role and possibly lynch an important power role. A no lynch to me isnt really a bid deal but I would much rather scum hunt than I would no lynch anyday.

And to MBL- I didnt mention Ozy, because everyone else already had and I had nothing new to add to the conversation. What I dont like about you is your basically one line posts where you give no logic to at all, just opinion with nothing to back it up. You have basically been lurking since you replaced with three posts with not much there. If you think I am misdirecting attention away from Ozy, what is it that you find scummy about him being that you really havent posted and why then were you voting me when you found him scummy? The timing of me saying something comes from the Mod saying you picked up your prod yet failed to post and then when I say something about you lurking you post. Interesting correlation. What do you think Adele single focus has been and why do you think she has had that focus. You give ambiguous statements and then do not back them up.

[kilmenator]

Scum is much more likely to read carelessly.

Scum is also not likely to write that sentence you wrote to attract attention to a relationship between them and their partner. So I'm going to operate for now on the belief that Ozy and kil are scum and Adele is not.

MBL you are completely avoiding giving any logically reasonings for any of your opinions. If your logic holds true about the relationship with Adele and I, then why doesnt it hold true with Ozy and I? Hmm??? And I have been reading the game more carefully, everyone is entitled to mistakes. Do you think someone carelessly reading the game is a scum tell? Because if it is, then maybe you should give more opinion about what is going on rather than making off hand statements like you are.

[kilmenator]

ok, well im still here, ok, so ozy is probably town becaue he wasnt lynchable? what i dont understand is why he woulsnt tell us what he was so that we could choose a better lynch? i am still comfortable with a MBL lynch by the way.

[kilmenator]

wow, i missed the whole fifteenth page, must be i did not look back and read after i realized what happened during day. maybe this sounds like a stupid idea, but i would like to hear a claim from MBL, if everyone else thinks it is ok. i will also explain why if someone would like to hear why. otherwise i can just drop the thing and hope other people see MBL as scummy.

[kilmenator]

MBL- the reason I did not make such a comment was because I had not realized he had actually claimed. I find you much more scummy than I do ozy. In case you did not notice, there isnt a vote on ozy from me. My vote lies on you being I find you scummy. I have not yet reread to see who got the bandwagon on ozy yet, so I will not make comment on it yet again until I get a chance to reread instead of muddying the water even more. Why MBL do you fail to comment at all? And why were you on the bandwagon for Ozy if you never gave reasons as to why you would jump there?

Patrick- essentially, I just want to know if MBL is vanilla or not. If he is a power role, I will leave it alone. But if he is vanilla, I would like him to claim as such. My reasoning goes a lot further than that, I just think it would be smarter to see if his claim is vanilla or not. Just trust me on this one, as if I exlain to much it it may mess something more up. My role allows me to find some information about people, and I want to know more about Ozy. If Ozy is vanilla, then it does allow scum to know more about him, but I would bet if he is vanilla, he would be an unlikely lynch tonight being that scum may go more for a power role than they would for vanilla.

[kilmenator]

you are probably right MBL, but i just wanna know if you are vanilla or not. I am pro- town, and I am taking a stab in the semi lit doors of my mind, if others think I am stupid and should let it go. I will, but I am taking a stab at scum hunting and want to know. If others dont think it is a good idea, I will lay off.

[kilmenator]

Ozy- Yeah, I knew who was on the wagon, not who started the wagon. My comment was to say that I did not remember who got the bandwagon started yet.

I will lay off from MBL with the role stuff, but I do believe him to be scum and wanted to know what he would claim, maybe that was stupid, I dont know, but I wanted to know how he would react.

Vote:MBL

[kilmenator]

unvote

as MBL pretty much cleared my suspicions of him. I need a reread, I would like to see what all adele/falcone (I think that is who she replaced) have had to say. I also would like to get a good read on turbo again.

My opinion on a mass claim- while I am one who likes to have an idea of peoples roles just because it narrows it down in my mind and the fact of counter claims and such giving us more information, right now, being that my suspicions of MBL are clear I think we should wait possibly, being that two roles were basically kind of claimed but not really claimed, both of them being two pro town power roles I think we should wait for now, unless everyone thinks we should go on with it.

Mod Edit: bolded the unvote

[kilmenator]

ok, well I will make a claim if everyone else thinks that is wise, but before i make a claim i would like to hear MBL's claim, just for my own benefit. Now, what does everyone else think about this? I would like to hear from Klebian, Turbovolver, geraintm before we go anywhere else. And Shadow, dont you think you should unvote if you think Ozy is pretty much cleared?

[kilmenator]

MBL- in my opinion i have found your play to be scummy. when i asked about your role, i assumed you would claim townie. i also assumed who scum would target last night and after i said what i did, i realized not only scum would target him but others also. Obviously someone else targetted the victim as well, so I was not sure in my own mind whether or not you were scum or something else. So, with all the being said, when you said you were not a vanilla, I layed off because now I know what your role is. Maybe it was stupid of me, because I was assuming you were scum all along and that just fueled my fire, but I realize now I was wrong. Sorry about that.

[kilmenator]

Ok to answer everyone's suspicions about MBL, I assume MBL is a power role that we need. I at this point do not feel comfortable bringing out what I think that is, although, if I did then there would be opportunity to counter claim what I think he is claiming and therefore would definetly clear him in my mind. Honestly, I dont know what to think of this game being that I think most people will have power roles based on the other game.

[kilmenator]

guys, things have been crazy around here. It should slow down in the next day or so, will read and post later!

[kilmenator]

[quote="ShadowLurker"]I don't believe too much speculation on the kill/killer until it comes out is a good idea as it will distract us from finding scum.

For the moment though, I'm leaning toward the killer being protown.[/quote]

SL- could you tell me why you think the day kill was pro-town? Not that I didnt think some of Patrick's actions were sort of scummy, but for the most part I thought he was a pro-town player. I almost thought him as a cop because of this post here

[quote="Patrick"]I still would like ppl to comment on whether or not a second cop should come out if there is one. I would like to confirm Shadowlurker's sanity. If we can do that, then we're virtually there unless the doc falls tonight.[/quote]

Just because why would he ask such a question without assuming that there was another cop.

I tend to lean the opposite was because I think that the day-kill was probably scum killing, possibly because there was no night kill last night. I dont really know, this is all speculation for me.

As for Klebian, His analysis seems to be pretty fair, but I dont really see him offering any opinions of who he thinks is scummy. I dont like that at all, being that by not offering those opinions we do not really have any information on him, other than the fact that he can summarize the game (which for me was very helpful because it was a good memory refresher.)

I would also like to hear something from Colonel Kurtz so that we at least know he is here. This is all I have for right now, I wouldnt mind putting more pressure on klebian, but will do so after things slow down for him and he finishes his reread/analysis unless that seems to take forever.

[kilmenator]

Hmm, I wonder why my quotes are not appearing as quotes...???

[kilmenator]

I am not saying that I know who did it, I was just speculating, not drawing connections between anyone and Patrick, it is solely based on opinion, therefore you are right, it is WIFOM logic, but it is the opinion that I hold. I find it interesting that everyone else feels that it is a pro-town player who day killed him.

[kilmenator]

How is stating my opinion on whether or not scum killed Patrick buttering myself up to him? I stated I thought he seemed pro-town, and was possibly another cop therefore, I found it interesting that someone would day vig him. I dont think that is scummy at all, unless stating your opinion is scummy. But hey, that is just my opinion, that is all. Could someone please explain to me why they think he would have been day vigged?

[kilmenator]

[quote="geraintm"]
and what i meant wasi found it odd the way you linked yourself to Patrick's townness after the event it was proved.
[/quote]

I guess I didnt realize that I linked myself to him, could you tell me where I did that. And yes MBL, I am pro-town. Klebian had time to do a quick post, but has not done really anythign else. I would like to know what is going on with him and Colonel Kurtz.

I would also like to hear why people think it was a day vig who got rid of patrick.

[kilmenator]

Reason for discussing the day kill- I guess my thoughts were that it generate discussion on Patrick, therefore bring forward differering opinions and anything that does that is good for the town. Discussion helps, discussion is a form of scum hunting.

I dont see the fact that I quoted Patrick and stated that I thought he was a second cop to be going to great lengths to say I thought he was innocent. And the reason I brought up the fact that I thought him a little scummy was because at points I did find him scummy, not scummy enough for a day vig though.

And after looking at the set up of the other DOOM game, I dont think ozy should entirely be let off the hook.

[kilmenator]

Since I assumed klebian would be finished telling us who he thinks is scummy, and since I did not really like that last post of his, I will

Vote: Klebian

for now, and wait and see what happens.

[kilmenator]

[quote="klebian"]Seriously, what is with your rude responses? She found it interesting because apparently she thought patrick seemed to be pro-town, and thus she thinks that a protown dayvig wouldn't kill patrick. When you're going to respond, respond to the whole thing she says. All you're doing is picking on the newbie-ish players who apparently don't word things the way you would.[/quote]

Being that klebian has had a couple of days to finish his reread and analysis and has yet to complete it, I think we should put more pressure on him. I wouldnt think it was a big deal except he posted in and has obviously been checking in to see what is going on, and yet hasnt finished. I would also like to request [b]prod[/b]s on all who havent posted in a while.

[kilmenator]

could someone help me figure out why my quotes and such arent showing up the way they should?

[kilmenator]

klebian, i have not responded to your first half analysis because i wanted to see the finished product before i put any thought into it. i know that when i personally do a reread, my opinions sometimes will change as i progress through the game. the reason i have not put pressure on noriel is because i think she is pretty much cleared, being that i do think that shadow is the daycop and therefore she would be cleared in my mind. i will admit that i havent put much thought into if SL is sane or not, so, i guess you are right, i would like to here from noriel, colonel kurtz, and the rest of your analysis, if you are busy, i would appreciate it if you would at least mention that in your post so we know what is going on. the whole reason i brought it out was because you mentioned finishing and then your next post mention nothing about it. and why would i not like your last post? essentially you were agreeing with me and sticking up for me, so why would that have bothered me? anyway,

mod prod

please on those who havent posted in a while, specifically colonel kurtz... and thanks so much SL for the help, i am often an idiot when it come to computers...

[kilmenator]

[quote="klebian"]Seriously, what is with your rude responses? She found it interesting because apparently she thought patrick seemed to be pro-town, and thus she thinks that a protown dayvig wouldn't kill patrick. When you're going to respond, respond to the whole thing she says. All you're doing is picking on the newbie-ish players who apparently don't word things the way you would.[/quote]

You voted for me because I did not like this response? Interesting... I guess I dont understand why, but we are all entitled to our own opinion, even if others think it stinks. Anyway, when do you expect to finish up your reread/analysis so we have a time table to work with.

[kilmenator]

And kilm, although you may not have liked my last post, adele and norinel both responded to turbovolver's response to me, and essentially AGREED WITH ME. I really don't like how you've been playing today.

FoS: klimenator

my point was that i did not like your last post, as you tried to point out yourself by mentioning who did agree with you. the think i didnt like wasnt necessarily what you said, it was the tone and the way you stuck up for me that i did not like. i wanted to make a point to you that it wasnt necessarily the last post that bothered me, but the fact that you were avioding finishing the analysis. maybe that doesnt make sense to you, but essentially i was makiing a point that i didnt like it, but the reason i did not like it was not what you were saying but the way the post came across, i also felt that you were avoiding finishing up that analysis you promised and trying to buddy up with me.

my other question is was the vote placed because i was putting pressure on you to finish the analysis or because you find me scummy? because it seems to me that you are either genuinely misunderstanding me or... your vote is totally WIFOM.

[kilmenator]

as i said in post 548, it wasnt his post that bothered me as much as it was the fact that he was supposed to be too busy to finish his reread/analysis, and yet has time to come in and post something to make someone else look bad. his post was essentially sticking up for me so it wasnt what his post was saying, it was the fact of when and why he posted and yet didnt finish the analysis and him trying to buddy up with me, i did not like it at all. i also did not like how he tried to point out who did agree with his post and such. sorry for the confusion in the posting next time i will have to be more clear.

[kilmenator]

Thanks so much adele! That should make it easier.

[kilmenator]

I thought I already was, but I guess not,

Vote:Klebian

I agree that we need quite a few prods. I especially dont like that Colonel Kurtz hasnt posted anything at all, and there is plenty to talk about, if nothing more than to say he is here.

[kilmenator]

Just a note on Ozy, major metagaming or whatever here, but if you take a look at the setup of the other doom game, there were people who got lynched on the side of the town and turned against it because they couldnt be lynched, and visa versa, if Ozy is either of those two roles, I would bet he would be anti-town in the beginning and now with the town, just going on the fact that he didnt explain a role, just said he was unlynchable. That is my opinion for what it is worth. I need some time to think and then psot some more.

[kilmenator]

May I ask what everyone else thinks of ozy's alignment? And to respond to klebian on the point that I would want to lynch townies isnt accurate, I would definetly not want to lynch a power role such as a cop, doc, or such. To me, a townie would not be what I wanted to lynch, but if he claimed townie and I thought he was scummy, I wouldnt feel so bad about lynching him. If he claimed power role, I would be much more likely to lay off for a little while and watch to see what happens.

[kilmenator]

the reason i ask is because if you look at the set up of the other game, once people were lynched they became on the opposite side instead of dying. so for example, if XXX were a protownie and we lynched him, XXX would not die he would come back as a player for scum and likewise with YYY if YYY were a scum buddie and was lynched, YYY would come back as a townie. it was in the setup of the other game. i am not saying we need to try it, i just want to make sure that it is out there if i get NK'ed. i thought that klebians summary was good, but again, i would like him to outline who he thinks is scum and why, not summarize the game. he has proven he is willing to work and the summary has been good to refresh my memory, but again, i dont like that he is not willing to put forth who he thinks is scum.

[kilmenator]

The two roles being protown are probably there to balance the game. Look at the other DOOM game to see an explanation of the roles, in either case, neither person who turns scum or turns town knows the other scum.

[kilmenator]

This game had a scum godfather, which is a pretty huge advantage for scum. I'd be surprised if they got an additional benefit from recruiting dead townies to their side.

By the way, if kilm's claimish thingy is true, we had two watcher/trackerish roles on the town side. Possible, but atypical.

that was again, probably a way to balance the game IMO. just speculation though, i am not pushing for an ozy lynch, just putting my opinion out so that if i am night killed i will have had something to contribute to the game.

[kilmenator]

I am NOT pushing for an ozy lynch, I am just making a point that ozy is not yet off the hook. I wish you guys would just take a quick look at the other doom game to get an idea of what went on there. I do not suspect that the mod had the same setup BUT I would guess that it may be similar. And Noriel, since when is it YOUR possibility, I made a comment and someone else commented on it, so I felt the need to respond. Regardless of who brought it up, which I do NOT remeber you bringing it up, I thought it deserved a little more attention just in case people over looked it. Right now, we need to focus on finding who is scum and getting a lynch done before deadline. It would help if those lurking would speak up a little. I would also like to see a suspect list.

My top two suspects are Klebian and geraintm. Next in line would be Ozy, but that is just because of the setup of the other game (but I am not too worried about him being that he does not have killing ability if the set up is similar). I would bet though, if all truth be told about the roles, I would bet there is something else out there other than two or more scum. I dont know exactly what, but something, this is where my thoughts on the day kill coming from scum would make a little more sense.

[kilmenator]

[quote="MrBuddyLee"]Lynching Ozy a second time would be a bizarre choice. If he dies, he's scum, if he doesn't, we still wouldn't know a thing more about his alignment.

I think we need to assess his play and determine his scumminess that way, because lynching him for his claim is more of a desperation play.[/quote]

I totally agree with this statement, and therefore think we need to watch ozy/colonel/ or whoever replaces colonel... i must admit though that i do not think he would be an unlynchable mafia, if anything the setup would more likely be something like similar to the other game...

[kilmenator]

Why are we having this argument about the wording, to me it seems a little crazy being that we really have no information on Ozy, other than what he has said and that he wasnt lynched, so we know of no alignment or anything else. Or am I completely misunderstanding this issue?

[kilmenator]

welcome autoload...

[kilmenator]

I would like to request a

vote count

. Thanks Mod.

[kilmenator]

Autoload, could you please tell me why you voted Klebian, you did not explain your vote. And, did you know you were dropping them hammer on him?

Honestly, I think a mass claim would be a good play right now, we have 8 people left and I would bet that most of us have power roles (based on those killed thus far and the other game), so we should have some pretty good information about how nights worked, and turned up no night kills. I would like to hear everyone else's opinon first, but I think that might be the best way to proceed. Again, this is just my opinion and if you guys think it is a bad idea, I can leave it alone.

[kilmenator]

You are definitely right about outing the person who keeps the nights kill free. I guess, I guess I may not have completely thought through that.

[kilmenator]

Ok, so since we know that I am a tracker, I know some information about what happened at night last night with certain people. I wont reveal who I tracked last night, but have a information on someone's night behavior. So, we need to at least vote and get the ball moving on someone, so that we can make use of information gathered on someone. Right now, we are just sitting here speculating on stuff and not really gathering more information. I think we need to do something. We are also waiting on someone who we basically confirmed innocent (autoload replaced ozy right?). I am pretty sure judging by his behavior thus far, he will not be responding anytime soon.

SL could you please tell us who you have checked as a daycop? I still think a claim would be a good idea. We have eight of us, three which SL should be able to confirm, someone who can day kill (judging by the patrick situation), and two other roles. I think it is a good idea. If we decide that is what we should do, I will go first or whatever. But right now we are just sitting around waiting.

[kilmenator]

Quite honestly geraintm, I was being lazy last night when I posted. I did not feel like going back and looking at Shadows posts to see who he had already cleared. I did catch he was investigating you, and to respond to the autoload thing, the reason I dont think he will respond anytime soon is because he posted twice yet did not outline any reasoning at all, obviously did not check the vote count to see that klebian was -1, or just dropped the hammer anyway without waiting for a role claim. To me that seems like someone who just comes in and is pretty reckless about playing, again, that is just my opinion, but that is why I dont think he will respond anytime soon.

[kilmenator]

Turbo - What? I am not trying to justify him at all, I am saying it is crap what he is doing. I am not at all against lynching him, being that all game I have been pointing out he could very well not be an unlynchable townie he could be a townie who was lynched and comes back as a scum. I was saying his playstyle seems like he doesnt care, therefore would be less likely to respond even if pressure was put on him.

[kilmenator]

Since I am a pro-town tracker, that logic does not work. If you are willing to bet that my role is unlikely but saying it is true, wouldnt that logic hold true to ozy's role as well? Doesnt really make much sense. I am pushing for a mass claim, that is the best way to go about today, since we are unsure of SL's investigations, I think it would be smart to mass claim, if we are totally against a mass claim I think we should lynch turbo, being that we are most likely to hit scum because the only other options are MBL being scum, that way tomorrow we can give our investigations and such. The fact that MBL has not yet been NKed leads me to believe that he is either scum or scum has been RB'ed at night. I dont know, with so many power roles, this game is insanely crazy!

[kilmenator]

If I have an idea of what your role is, then so do the other players in this game. If in fact, without you technically claiming, I am assuming your role correctly. Even that proves that I would be pro town because I have not targetted you yet, and I think I have a pretty good idea of your role. Again, Please read the other DOOM game and the role that I am describing is one in which a person is lynched as town comes back as scum, but can be lynched again. They are not at all unlychable, they just get to come back into the game as the opposite side, but can still be lynched the second time. What would it benefit scum if I were a scum tracker? It wouldnt make much sense because then I would have to be able to tell them who was targetted the night before, and how would I be able to do that without everyone knowing?

[kilmenator]

Even that proves that I would be pro town because I have not targetted you yet, and I think I have a pretty good idea of your role.

Wait, you tried to force me to roleclaim on D2 based on some info you had. Now you say you didn't target me yet? The only possible conclusion I can reach is that you tracked someone else to my house on the night no one died, and assumed that person was a roleblocker who blocked me, the killer. Which is not only grossly incorrect, but doesn't seem even remotely likely enough of a possibility to try to force a claim out of someone. Wouldn't I be just as likely or more so to be the target as the killer?

OK, your actions throughout this game are making less and less sense from a pro-town perspective, leading me to believe you've been lying about them. Town's actions usually follow a simple consistency: "X was scummy d1 so I investigated them. I got a guilty so im forcing a claim." Your actions don't seem the least bit consistent.

I am not saying I didnt target you, I did, and if you want I can relay what it was the first day. But, what I am saying is that, YOU WOULD BE DEAD RIGHT NOW if I were scum! Would you like me to tell you who you targetted so that you know I am a tracker? Or are you scum?

[kilmenator]

MBL- Sorry, got a little emotional and didnt finish the post, as I said before, D1 I did find you scummy, but when you defended yourself as you did, then I assumed that you were not scum I assumed you were another role of importance. I was forcing a claim because I wanted to see if you would claim vanilla or not, but you didnt, so I let you off the hook.

[kilmenator]

awesome! I was right! Now, what abou a role claim?

[kilmenator]

being that we have 4 people cleared, and MBL and I are basically cleared, I guess the only person left to vote is

Unvote, Vote:turbo

[kilmenator]

Now that autoload is scum, your defense of him only looks worse. The fact that you kept insisting there could be town who got lynched and turned up scum only looks worse now that it's actually happened. Especially the way you were so keen to mention town getting converted to scum, and not just scum with a one-shot lynch protection which was also a possibility.

I dont understand how this makes me look scummy in the least. I pointed out who I though could be scum, wouldnt it have been smarter for me to say, yeah, probably unlynchable? Because if I were scum and got lynched then scum could still win?

Total claim, I am a tracker, I can check people's night target, I win with the town when all anti-town forces are eliminated. My first night, I targetted MBL because I thought he seemed scummy and found that he targetted Ozy. At first I thought this was because Ozy would be a good lynch for scum being that he was bascially confirmed town, but when I asked MBL about it, he said that he had an idea of why no night kills happened last night which lead me to believe he was the Doc. Which is why I am suprised that he has made it thus far in the game, being that almost anyone who really read the thread would know he was the doc and would therefore target them.

Last night I targetted Adele, just because I wanted to check her to see what might turn up from night results, because I thought she was very clean throughout the game and the least scummy, which would have been awesome scum play, also I thought it would give me an idea of SL's sanity, because if Adele targetted the person who got killed, that would lead me to believe either she is a night cop, role blocker or scum, which we could have easily eliminated with a claim. Last night adele did not target anyone, which leads me to believe she is either a day kill scum, or a day vig. Whatever her role is she has a day role, or chose not to use it last night.

Anyway, I am a pro-town tracker, I win with town. Those are my investigations. I would be a terrible lynch today, although it wouldnt lose the game for the town, unless there was more than one scum left, which is a possiblity, slight, but possible. My behavior has not been scummy, so I dont know why the focus is on me and not turbo.

Anyway, there is my contribution to the game, I would love to finish, but if the town feels it best to lynch me, to figure out if turbo is scum, then so be it, but it is a bad play and I will turn up town.

[kilmenator]

Oh, and to respond more to turbo, the reason I said about the town turning to scum was because it was in the other game, and I thought it was a cool role that stuck out to me and if I were a mod, I would definetly use it again.

[kilmenator]

Well, I could see MBL being a doc who protected Ozy or scum who tried to kill (Or successfully recruited) Ozy. I'm not sure what else MBL could possibly claim here. I kind of feel that the Day 2 exchange between them had kilme let on too much info if MBL had to lie, especially since he'd known he targetted Ozy.

Could you clarify this for me, because I am not sure what you are trying to say?...

My thoughts on the game, we obviously have a day killer, and I think it is probably turbo or adele, being that adele seemed to think there was an SK leads me to believe that she is not the person who killed during the days, which would only leave turbo and MBL because those two are the only two unconfirmed (other than me) by SL. Being that I know that MBL has a night role, by who he targetted would me to believe it is not him, so that would leave Turbo as the day killer, now... whether or not the kills are pro-town is up for debate, being that they killed patrick, who I thought was fairly unscummy and ozy, who I said almost all game was probably resurrected as scum. Now, being that turbo used this kill as a reason to vote me, would lead me to believe that turbo is responsible for this and used it as a reason to target me.

As for MBL, if he is not counter claimed then I believe he is the doctor, but if he is countered, I would be he is definetly scum because anyone could have read the thread and figured out who MBL "kinda claimed" to be. And if he was in fact the doctor, scum would have targetted him, unless he has self heal ability, which I dont think I have ever seen in a game, then he would have been killed by now. This is also a reason that I am not scum, because I would have killed MBL because I have thought all along that he was the doc, if I were scum he would have been my target.

I think today is a good day for a claim, for those who have not been cleared by SL, which would leave me, MBL, and turbo. That was those cleared by town would be able to make a decision on who they think is scum. I already claimed, so I think we need to put pressure on turbo and MBL to get a claim from them. Then we can decide who to lynch out of the three of us today, and if SL makes it through the night then that gives him another investigation tomorrow. If he comes up with another innocent then we know he must not be the cop, or someone has investigation immunity. But right now, where we are, I think that Turbo is the best lynch for today, (of course this is without knowing the role he claims) or if MBL is counterclaimed I think he is the best lynch today. But I think scum lie in those two people.

[kilmenator]

MBL- you failed to claim, as geraintm asked. Is it that you are not the doc and are avoiding claiming? If you are the doc, you are already outed by me, so a claim might be smart on your part.

[kilmenator]

Well, I could see MBL being a...scum who...successfully recruited) Ozy.

The more and more I think about it the more and more I'm leaning towards this explanation

Turbo, as you just checked page one, you should know that he was unlynchable townie on day one who turned scum goon. Either you purposely overlooked that point, or you didnt see it. We obviously have a day killer, whether or not it is scum or not is to be determined. If Turbo is not the day killer, then someone other than SL, MBL, me, and turbo are the day killer. It might be wise if there is a day killer to speak up, because if not, I would bet it is turbo.

MBL- I already outed you, if you are the doc you need to claim. There is no other way you can explain yourself. Other than you are the doc or you are scum. Which is it?

[kilmenator]

You are right, you do not have to claim, and yes my curiousity is getting to me. But that is because I feel like you are not really the doc. But, I also dont feel your vote on me is justified, being that there is no way you would be alive if I am scum.

Anyway, I think we have at least one scum left, and possibly a serial killer or some type of day killer.

[kilmenator]

MBL- you are quick to ask everyone else's suspect list and yet never provide one of your own. I do not like that at all.

My suspect lists are
1. Turbo- probably day killer (probably an SK to keep the game a little more balanced.
2. MBL- the fact that he refuses to claim for fear of counter claim (assumed) I almost have to believe he is scum.

That for me would be it, because we know we have 4 confirmed, and I know I am pro-town. Unless we have a investigation immune person, which would be terrible for the town.

With all that said,

unvote

for now, until we get everyone else's results and then I think we need a mass claim.

[kilmenator]

From yesterday:

Summarizing, if the daykiller's Norinel or Turbo, they could be either SK or vig. If the daykiller's kil, Adele, SL or geraint, they're an SK.

I'll leave it at this point up to Norinel and Turbo to decide whether or not they think it's wise to claim or deny daykiller. If NEITHER of you is, confirmation of that will be evidence of an SK in the game, which is something we would benefit from knowing.

As for scum, same arguments as before apply. One of {kil, MBL, turbo} or SL's naive/scum.

So you and turbo are my candidates for the final scum. You, Adele, SL and geraint are my candidates for a daykilling SK if there is one.

Sorry, I must have missed that. But it makes no sense that you think I could be the SK, knowing that I tracked you N1, it completely kills the idea that I could be the SK. It doesnt make sense that you wont claim. I know MBL is not the day killer, because I tracked him N1. Adele could be, being that she had no target last night, or I was RBed. Anyway, I guess until MBL claimed he and Turbo are both #1 on my list.

[kilmenator]

When did I ever say you can kill and recruit? I dont know anything emphatically. Scum and day killer lay in you and turbo, unless, someone SL investigated has investigation immunity.

MBL, without a claim, I am going to vote you. You are obviously not the doc, and have not claimed anything pro-town, probably because of lack of a good claim, therefore, I assume you are scum.

Vote-MBL

[kilmenator]

Turbo- The problem I see with going after geraintm, is that fact that he is cleared by SL. And we have no reason to believe that SL isnt telling the truth, therefore, I dont think we should go after a cleared person. I dont like the fact that you are going after him even though he is cleared, that really sets off my scumdar. I would feel much better if you were going after those not cleared, even if it was me. We need to focus on catching scum tonight, not a cleared townie.

[kilmenator]

I am unsure of whether or not they are pro-town or not. I get mixed vibes when it comes to that, becacuse, Patrick-Day 1 did not make any sense to me, being I did not think he was that scummy, but Ozy-Day 2 or 3, whichever it was, did make sense to me, because of the set up of the other game. But, whatever, I guess speculating does not get us anywhere, being that the only person who could have day killed, that isnt cleared is turbo, because mine is a night ability and so is MBL's. So, MBL if you are pushing to find the scum with a day kill ability it has to be turbo (unless of course someone has immunity). But that is a whole other ball game. I am comfortable with a turbo/MBL lynch.

[kilmenator]

MBL- if you think all those people are suspect, why then have you only tried repeatedly to make a case against me? I am not sure how you expect me to play, I base my vote and cases against people on logic, not necessarily on if they made mistakes throughout the game. Scummy behavior needs to be taken care of, but not people who just sincerely make mistakes. While my play style is not the same as yours, it does not make mine any less than yours, it is just different. Since you are almost being lynched not may be your time to claim, so that if a quick hammer comes, we have more information on you.

[kilmenator]

Honestly, the fact that none of them have hammered is a positive for them, while they may not have checked in for a while. Sorry MBL, I completely fogot the mod tells the role when we are lynched, it honestly slipped my mind, being that IRL when we play, the mod does not tell the role, only whether or not they were innocent or guilty. Honestly, I have only played a few games on this site, so I foget important things. I guess I may be trying to hard to be a good player. But anyway, NO ONE HAMMER until MBL has had a chance to claim.

[kilmenator]

MBL- that is geraintm, adele, and I who want a claim, one more and you need to make good on that promise. Anyone else think MBL should claim? I sure do. He and turbo are the only ones who are not cleared who havent claimed, and at this point, I feel he basically claimed doc, yet hasnt specifically said it. To me, he needs to come clean with the information he seems to be withholding... so... any other claim requests for MBL?

[kilmenator]

If I die, I suggest you all look carefully at Adele... she's far and away the #1 SK candidate at the moment. I still think kilmenator or turbo are the final nightkilling scum.

So then, you are suggesting that there are two more scum and a SK? The game would be a little unbalanced then wouldnt it. Would you mind sharing how you came to the conclusion that Adele is the SK? Because I dont follow your reasoning. I am undecided of whether or not we have and SK or a Vig, because ozy was obviously a good lynch, since he was scum. You seem to be forgetting that part, he was scum. And either he was lynched then came back as scum, or possibly recruited.

I just looked back at what MM said about ozy/autoload, and it is interesting, he was obviously pro-town to begin with and some how turned scum, which would mean that he was probably recruited. MBL targetted ozy N1. Which would lead me to believe that MBL is probably the recruiter, because I know he targetted him. It wouldnt make sense for him to RB ozy, being that ozy was unlynchable, and he possibly could have been the doc, but I dont think he is. I cant really think of another role he possibly could have.

[kilmenator]

The fact is, some people obviously thought that it was a good possibility that he turned scum, I being one of them. Just because you were suprised by the outcome does not mean others did not expect that as the outcome, or suspect that ozy actually turned scum. Therefore, maybe the person who killed ozy really thought there was a real possibility that he could have been scum and wanted to give it a shot. Which IMO is a protown play.

[kilmenator]

Turbo- what I was saying is that MBL looks a whole lot more like scum to me that geraintm, and geraintm is "hypothetically" cleared. Being that we have no reason not to trust SL, I would say that we should trust SL until we are led astray. Right now, we have three people uncleared, you, me and MBL. To me right now MBL is by far the most scummy. Unless MBL has an amazing claim which can not be refuted, I would venture to say he is scum. If we lynch him tonight tomorrow, you or I can be investigated, it doesnt matter to me which. Whoever is investigated, if they turn up innocent we lynch the other. Hopefully this does not put us in a lynch or lose situation. Right now, I would bet we have one scum and maybe an SK. Since we have had no night kills thus far, we are in much better shape, hopefully we can keep that up tonight.

[kilmenator]

Adele, on a side note, can I tell you that wikipedia is NOT a teacher's friend. I had a kid look up Andrew Carnegie, for PA history, fourth grader, by the way. See what it says about him... it will give you a good laugh, especially with the perspective that a fourth grade girl found it! Ps. It has something to do with "Mr. Steele"

Also waiting and been waiting on a MBL claim.

[kilmenator]

Sorry, I had to tell the story, because it is so funny!

In PA history my kids were assigned to look up 15 people who have had an impact on PA history. ONe of them was Andrew Carnegie. A girl, the loudest girl in the class, googled him and the first site that came up was wikipedia. All of the sudden, I hear that is talking about he pee pee. I quickly ran up to the computer covered her eyes and closed the browser. Later I went back to the site and looked at it. It said that Carnegie was known with the women because of the enourmous size of his d**k, that was affectionately named Mr. Steele. HAHA

MBL- why have you gone from posting every other post to not posting?

[kilmenator]

So you are saying that you did not target anyone last night?

[kilmenator]

Not buying your claim at all!

Here is why...

I suppose if I'm busing Ozy, I should vote for him.

vote: Ozy

Why, for example, is no one commenting on the makeup of the Ozy lynch? The first thing I did when he came up townish was reread to see who made a scummy attempt to get Ozy lynched. I find it odd that kil and Patrick avoided making such comments.

Interesting eh? The person who was bussing ozy says he goes back after the ozy lynch to see who made an attempt to get ozy lynched, yet... who was it? The man in question.

Tell you what, it's obvious from kil's post that I have a night action, so I won't bother hiding that. I'll add that I may know why there was no NK last night. If you guys really want to push this, go for it, but I can only see it causing a huge mess. I'm going to go back to finding scum, and

I don't think kil or Ozy are it

, which narrows things a bit.

His claim says that he found ozy scummy enough to try and NK him that night, yet right here he says he thinks ozy is not scum. Why would you have tried to NK him and then have such a turn around that he is pro-town? He also says he thinks I am not scum. Funny, though because now he is pushing me as scum. Also, this looks a little like someone who just recruited trying to take heat of that person.

Problem is, there could be other explanations for the

lack of

nightkill besides my action. So I don't see any way to confirm me or the alignment of my target today.

1. Sounds like a doc claim to me, and yet he hasnt died at night. If he were not scum then scum would have wacked him.
2. Sounds a heck of a lot like someone who was trying to prevent a NK ot make one happen.

I really want to know who did that, but I don't think it's a good idea for them to step forward unless that was a 1-shot.

Why would you have wanted to know if you already knew and that it was you? This seems to appear pro-town with the connotation of saying, I didnt think Pat was that scummy, why did someone kill him?

Just one? I can think of three (doc protection, blocked scum, NK-immune target) off the top of my head using standard roles, two of which a tracker could partially confirm.

I'll operate on the most likely one til there's more evidence. There could definitely be another explanation but the odds for now favor me operating based on mine.

This comment doesnt jive at all with your claimed role.

I think geraint, klebian and Turbo are most likely to be scum. If we lynch those three I think we hit two and win, and if there's a vig, even better. Let's reach a consensus.

Again, the whole vig thing.

Definitely not excited about the people advocating wasting another lynch on Ozy. Sure, there's a chance he's scum, but is it likely? It's a play that doesn't make sense for protown players to push.

Again, protecting someone he tried to NK. Not to logical, unless of course you just recruited them to scum.

This game had a scum godfather, which is a pretty huge advantage for scum. I'd be surprised if they got an additional benefit from recruiting dead townies to their side.

I never mentioned recruiting townies to their side, you brought it up!

Autoload made the same play as town in a newbie game he replaced into. I'm thinking that as a newbie he has yet to understand the value of patience in these games.

His previous quote says we need to evaluate whether or not ozy is scum by his behavior, but when someone called auto scummy, he stuck up for him.

For Ozy to be unlynchable scum, we'd have to accept that the only way to kill him is to vig him. If the vig dies, Ozy would be unkillable.

Now, ozy is killed (SK'ed or Viged) strange that all along MBL has been saying that it was probably an SK who killed ozy, but now he himself is claiming to have killed ozy as a vig.???

Ozy was killed by a serial killer, I think. In retrospect, he was axed right after I expressed the difficulty scum would have in getting him killed, and I think an SK probably looked at that and said, "Shit, I can't win as long as that guy's in the game so he'd might as well go now." The alternate explanation is that town looked at him and suddenly decided he was the scummiest player in the game, and no one's remotely expressed that thought besides kil, who claims not to have killed Ozy. It looks like an SK dayvig kill.

So it's either two original scum plus one recruit plus an SK or two original scum plus one recruit vs a town with a vig. With Mert (godfather) dead and Ozy (recruit) dead, it's most likely there's a scum and an SK remaining.

Now, hold the reigns buddie, a few quotes ago, you said it would not be balanced if scum could recruit and here you go basically thinking they possibly could.

And why are you cleared in the least? Scum and SK will likely have powers in addition to killing ability. Your big theory is that I'm a mafia who can

kill and recruit

and yet you try to pretend like because you can track you can't kill?

Again, I never had that theory, that theory came from you! Freudian Slip eh?

[kilmenator]

And, what if I lied about who I tracked last night to see what you would claim? What if now I know that you lied? Would that then make you scum?

[kilmenator]

I almost want to lie and say that I did target him last night and that he did have some sort of a night result, but I cant do that. I said that comment to see how he would react. I am not entirely sold on his claim, and I am almost definite that he is scum. But I did not track him last night. I honestly tracked Adele and Adele had no night target.

I still do not believe his defense, being that he was so adamant about it being an SK who killed Patrick and Ozy. Also, if you look at the kill scene of Ozy, you will see that Ozy was converted scum. The word converted there, makes me believe it was because of some outside action, not because of his lynch.

MBL- Could you tell us why you killed Patrick? And what made you think that Ozy could possibly be scum when you so adamantly disagreed with his lynch and with me saying he could be scum the whole time??

If MBL is not Scum, kill me tomorrow, but I am sure he is scum. If you want to test MBL's ability, he can try it on me, but of course, I would like it if the town would say so, and again, we really wouldnt get his alignment, just the fact that he can in fact do as he says. Also, MBL, didnt you already use your kill today? So you wouldnt be able to prove it this time would you? Also, if anyone out there made either of the kills in the day maybe they should come out, because that would show that MBL is definitely lying.

As MBL said before, if we have a doc, RB, cop, and tracker, then the game is extremely unbalanced, but if we have a mafia recruiter, an SK, godfather, then the game would be much more balanced. Being that I know my role, and have no reason not to believe SL (cop), I believe we have a doc, (which if the doc could give an indication of whether or not he healed ozy N1, then we would know if MBL was lying.) then we most defeintely have more than one scum party out there. But I would bet trying to outguess the mod in this game is a little crazy, being that I bet we all have power roles.

Again, I did not track MBL last night, I wanted a reaction, but I honestly do believe he is scum.

Confirm vote MBL

[kilmenator]

I'm more the type of vig who looks for town approval. If no one but me thinks a guy's scum, I have to be pretty confident in order to kill someone and randomize the game like that.

I'll look into those quotes, maybe I got confused but we'll see.

Where did you look for town approval?

Well unless it's you, I'm not going to buy your hunch. If you're believing they're town based on your investigation only, I think you're being naive.

And I don't think the kills themselves look entirely pro-town

reasoned, at least as reasoned in thread. No one made a compelling case for Patrick and Ozy to be scum before they died as far as I know.

You kind of stopped playing once you claimed and you've been letting everything ride on that.

Quotes from the man himself. Kind of seals the deal in my mind.

[kilmenator]

Come on now, I could have just lied and you would have been lynched, No Questions Asked. I wasnt asking the Doc to come forward, but I was making a point that if the doc did not heal ozy N1 and if you were not RB'ed then you would have to have been a recruiter.

And by the way you did not answer any of my questions. Your claim doesnt line up with your play. You also are saying Norinel and Adele are cleared, but fail to mention Geraintm? Is that significant? Either SL is right about them, or he is naive, OR they have immunity. If you think that I was trying to mess with the town, and you think that is anti town, what do you have to say for yourself? You basically led the town completely astray.

If we get rid of MBL tonight and he is not scum, then kill me, but I believe I have presented a pretty good case of why MBL's claim doesnt work with his actions thus far in the game.

[kilmenator]

Ps. I am pretty sure I know who the doc is anyway, along with anyone else who reads the thread would as well.

[kilmenator]

I did not lie, I told the truth, I wanted to see how he would react. That is why I came clean. If I were scum, which I am not, I would have just said, yeah I did track him and come up with some sort of excuse tomorrow. Maybe that was a bad play, I dont know, but I did want to see his reaction. How on earth could anyone give me a hard time for misleading the town, when all along, MBL was misleading the town into getting them to think that there was an SK and that he had nothing to do with the murders, did anyone even see the somment about him saying he would ask for the towns opinion before vig'ing someone? Come on now, people. How can you say I look the scummiest, when I just pointed out all the discrepencies in MBL play? And when it comes to trying hard to get MBL lynched, yes I am trying hard, because I honestly believe he is scum. The problem with his role is that he can appear pro-town regardless, he can probably prove his power, but if he is the vig, he hasnt really acted pro-town with his it, If he isnt scum, kill me. Honestly, I dont mind, and if you want MBL to vig me today, to prove my innocence, make sure you lynch him today. That might be the best play... what does everyone else think?

[kilmenator]

You got to be kidding me. Are you saying the me misleading the town is worse off than what MBL has done all game? My purpose was to see how he would react. I am not advocating my own death, just simply saying that if I am not scum the MBL is. I had noticed that he could not kill me today, yet he said that he woudl prove his ability today... he knew full well he wouldnt be able to and that is why he offered to do so. I also think we need to hear from other people, but can not believe that you guys are overlooking how MBL has played thus far in this game. It is obvious he has made his claim up, all along he has made comments about how the killer MUST be an SK, yet now he claims vig and that he killed those people. I am not mafia, and the fact that you geraintm have switched sides so quickly makes me question you. Also, geraintm have you even looked at my case against MBL? Because most of the evidence against him is irrefutable, and if I am lynched, take a look at who is trying to kill me, because as you will find out, I AM INNOCENT.

[kilmenator]

No, my evidence consists of the contradictaries in what you say and what you claim. You never answered the questions posed. Why did you vig Ozy when you didnt find him scummy, and this you say was because you tried to NK him and found him to be town and later vig'ed him?? And why did you kill patrick? Also, you say if you were a vig you would take the town's opinion, where have you done that?!!!

I could have told the town you did make a night action last night and no one would have known, but I didnt, I told the truth, unlike you, you purposely misled the town. I did not, I posed a question to see how you would react. I never said I tracked, but asked what if I had and knew you had a night target. You MBL, are scum. No doubt in my mind.

And, why is it when Adele asked you to claim taht you did, but did not when others had asked? I believe it was because you were trying to glean enough info to make up a claim. You mister are scum!

If I am lynched today, which I hope not, and you will know I am NOT scum, then kill MBL tomorrow, because he is scum!

[kilmenator]

MBL- quit beating around the bush! You explained why you killed ozy, but what about patrick? He wasnt particularly scummy and the rest of the town obviously DID NOT have imput on that. Or were you lying about the type of vig you are? When you answer these questions honestly then you can ask others about flip-flopping, because you are doing it yourself.

[kilmenator]

No, my evidence consists of the contradictaries in what you say and what you claim. You never answered the questions posed.

Why did you vig Ozy when you didnt find him scummy, and this you say was because you tried to NK him and found him to be town and later vig'ed him?? And why did you kill patrick? Also, you say if you were a vig you would take the town's opinion, where have you done that?!!!

The fact remains that MBL vig'ed someone he basically thought was cleared with no imput for the town, that was my point. If in fact MBL is the vig, then why did he kill ozy when he himself thought he was town from the fact that he was not killed. It doesnt make sense. Especially given that he was so adamantly against my suggestion that he could possibly still be scum.

It is funny, because of MBL's claim, anything that he has said is basically whiped away by him saying that he had to disguise his role. That is complete crap.

Also, it does not explain his post where he says he can explain why there was no night kill on N1. And on top of that, he basically claimed doc to throw scum off but was not knocked off in the nights. Doesnt make much sense at all. It has basically come down to the fact that it is either MBL or me who are scum, the way I see it, if I am lynched today, am town, that leaves six, if scum get an NK that leaves five, if MBL kills a townie tomorrow that would leave 4, pretty sure the game is either lynch or lose, if not completely over.

Oh and we have been talking about game balance thus far, if MBL is a whatever his role is (vig'ish type flavor) that makes the game a little unbalanced doesnt it?

[kilmenator]

Oh, and I would like to hear more from SL, Norinel, and geraintm. The only ones really contributing much are Myself, Adele, MBL, and turbo. That would make up about half of the town. Come on guys... it inst protown to sit back on your laurels and watch. Imput please!

[kilmenator]

MBL- are you purposely avoiding the questions I hae posed about 4 times to you? If not please answer!

[kilmenator]

Can I request

Mod Prods on geraintm, SL, and Norinel

... also

turbo

wouldnt hurt, and a

vote count

?

[kilmenator]

No, my evidence consists of the contradictaries in what you say and what you claim. You never answered the questions posed.

Why did you vig Ozy when you didnt find him scummy, and this you say was because you tried to NK him and found him to be town and later vig'ed him?? And why did you kill patrick? Also, you say if you were a vig you would take the town's opinion, where have you done that?!!!

Could you point me to where you answered these questions, cause I havent seen the answers yet, unless I am blind or something.

[kilmenator]

Completely agree Adele, maybe MBL will answer the questions because you posed them seeing he has yet to answer the questions I have posed. I also would like a little weigh in from other people. It is frustrating to only have 3 sometimes 4 people posting.

My idea of a plan goes like this...
1. we lynch MBL today, if he is scum we are in good shape, if not...
2. doc heals SL tonight and SL will make it through the night to investigate turbo tomorrow. If turbo is cleared I will be the next lynch, I am town, but if turbo is cleared then SL is scum or naive.

[kilmenator]

My computer is out of commision... I wont be able to post until I get something else up and running because the library sucks... lynch me tonight, find me innocent, and then that will give SL another chance to investigate, SL investigates MBL and gets guilty kill him, SL gets innocent, then MBL vig's turbo and you guys lynch SL. THis is just off the top of my head for right now, I might try to check in a couple of more times, but dont count on it.

[kilmenator]

The reason I say to kill me is because the only people under suspect are me, turbo, and MBL. If we are not going to lynch MBL today, and no one has mentioned turbo, then that would leave me. If it will help the town to kill me to prove my innocence, and then give SL an investigation tomorrow, to prove one more persons innocence, we should then have the game in the bag. I would be fine with lynching MBL or turbo, I just think we need to get it done, because right now we are not accomplishing anything. I still think MBL is scum, am positive of it, but it is frustrating to have people jump all over me for pushing for his lynch when he is the most likely scum. I have outlined my case, and everyone has had a read, but no one seems to be thinking clearly or something.

What else can I say, kill me if you want, that will get today over and get another investigation tomorrow, so long as SL is protected tonight and MBL does not make a kill, which we dont even know if we can believe him, for as far as we know, tonight we could get two NK's. so with that in mind we NEED to lynch scum today.

Meaning then dont kill me, kill MBL! He is scum! I am telling you people, believe me, he is scuM!

[kilmenator]

As I have said, I am a pro-town tracker. I honestly believe that MBL is scum, but recently he has been seeming more pro-town to me with turbo looking more not so townish. If I am lynhed, and since I am town, be sure to look at those who are putting quick pressure on me. MBL has been consistent, but turbo and adele have not. The doc should save SL, and SL tomorrow should investigate MBL or turbo, whichever is cleared lynch the other.

[kilmenator]

suck... lynched with no puter...

[kilmenator]

Adele, we as the town did not win this game for ourselves, you truly did. I knew you were the day killer when you claimed what you did, because I tracked you N2 and you didnt have a target. I knew then you had to be the day killer, although I honestly thought you must have been a day vig because you kept killing scum. Did you purposely try to kill scum, or was it a fluke thing?