Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[Turbovolver]

The problem I'm having here is, it's doubtful there is an SK considering how the night's have gone. And it's doubtful there would be four scum in the game, which makes it so that

geraintm
Adele
Norinel

are basically confirmed. Of those Adele was the only one I considered townish, in terms of behaviour.

I don't think it would be likely ShadowLurker ran around confirming everyone with a fake daycop ability just to look good, so I'm happy to call him town for the moment too.

That leaves kilmenator and MBL. I want to take a closer look there, but for the moment

Vote: kilmenator

Now that autoload is scum, your defense of him only looks worse. The fact that you kept insisting there could be town who got lynched and turned up scum only looks worse now that it's actually happened. Especially the way you were so keen to mention town getting converted to scum, and not just scum with a one-shot lynch protection which was also a possibility.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: kilmenator

Turbo's next if she comes up town, in my opinion.

[ShadowLurker]

kilmenator can you give us your results? Thanks.

[kilmenator]

Now that autoload is scum, your defense of him only looks worse. The fact that you kept insisting there could be town who got lynched and turned up scum only looks worse now that it's actually happened. Especially the way you were so keen to mention town getting converted to scum, and not just scum with a one-shot lynch protection which was also a possibility.

I dont understand how this makes me look scummy in the least. I pointed out who I though could be scum, wouldnt it have been smarter for me to say, yeah, probably unlynchable? Because if I were scum and got lynched then scum could still win?

Total claim, I am a tracker, I can check people's night target, I win with the town when all anti-town forces are eliminated. My first night, I targetted MBL because I thought he seemed scummy and found that he targetted Ozy. At first I thought this was because Ozy would be a good lynch for scum being that he was bascially confirmed town, but when I asked MBL about it, he said that he had an idea of why no night kills happened last night which lead me to believe he was the Doc. Which is why I am suprised that he has made it thus far in the game, being that almost anyone who really read the thread would know he was the doc and would therefore target them.

Last night I targetted Adele, just because I wanted to check her to see what might turn up from night results, because I thought she was very clean throughout the game and the least scummy, which would have been awesome scum play, also I thought it would give me an idea of SL's sanity, because if Adele targetted the person who got killed, that would lead me to believe either she is a night cop, role blocker or scum, which we could have easily eliminated with a claim. Last night adele did not target anyone, which leads me to believe she is either a day kill scum, or a day vig. Whatever her role is she has a day role, or chose not to use it last night.

Anyway, I am a pro-town tracker, I win with town. Those are my investigations. I would be a terrible lynch today, although it wouldnt lose the game for the town, unless there was more than one scum left, which is a possiblity, slight, but possible. My behavior has not been scummy, so I dont know why the focus is on me and not turbo.

Anyway, there is my contribution to the game, I would love to finish, but if the town feels it best to lynch me, to figure out if turbo is scum, then so be it, but it is a bad play and I will turn up town.

[kilmenator]

Oh, and to respond more to turbo, the reason I said about the town turning to scum was because it was in the other game, and I thought it was a cool role that stuck out to me and if I were a mod, I would definetly use it again.

[Adele]

The problem I'm having here is, it's doubtful there is an SK considering how the night's have gone.

I'm not certain, but I think there is an SK.

[geraintm]

I don't know where i am going with this though anymore. As i said, Auto's death has confused me.

So you are trying to use the death of another unrelated player as a reason to back down on your poorly formulated attack on me? Greeeat.

Nope, i was still voting for you, hadn't backed down when i wrote that post.

But having read Kilm's later post, i really, really want to know what MrBuddyLee does for a living. As in i really, really want MBL to say what he does.

The problem I'm having here is, it's doubtful there is an SK considering how the night's have gone.

I'm not certain, but I think there is an SK.

I am leaning towards that as well.

[Norinel]

Well, I could see MBL being a doc who protected Ozy or scum who tried to kill (Or successfully recruited) Ozy. I'm not sure what else MBL could possibly claim here. I kind of feel that the Day 2 exchange between them had kilme let on too much info if MBL had to lie, especially since he'd known he targetted Ozy.

[kilmenator]

Well, I could see MBL being a doc who protected Ozy or scum who tried to kill (Or successfully recruited) Ozy. I'm not sure what else MBL could possibly claim here. I kind of feel that the Day 2 exchange between them had kilme let on too much info if MBL had to lie, especially since he'd known he targetted Ozy.

Could you clarify this for me, because I am not sure what you are trying to say?...

My thoughts on the game, we obviously have a day killer, and I think it is probably turbo or adele, being that adele seemed to think there was an SK leads me to believe that she is not the person who killed during the days, which would only leave turbo and MBL because those two are the only two unconfirmed (other than me) by SL. Being that I know that MBL has a night role, by who he targetted would me to believe it is not him, so that would leave Turbo as the day killer, now... whether or not the kills are pro-town is up for debate, being that they killed patrick, who I thought was fairly unscummy and ozy, who I said almost all game was probably resurrected as scum. Now, being that turbo used this kill as a reason to vote me, would lead me to believe that turbo is responsible for this and used it as a reason to target me.

As for MBL, if he is not counter claimed then I believe he is the doctor, but if he is countered, I would be he is definetly scum because anyone could have read the thread and figured out who MBL "kinda claimed" to be. And if he was in fact the doctor, scum would have targetted him, unless he has self heal ability, which I dont think I have ever seen in a game, then he would have been killed by now. This is also a reason that I am not scum, because I would have killed MBL because I have thought all along that he was the doc, if I were scum he would have been my target.

I think today is a good day for a claim, for those who have not been cleared by SL, which would leave me, MBL, and turbo. That was those cleared by town would be able to make a decision on who they think is scum. I already claimed, so I think we need to put pressure on turbo and MBL to get a claim from them. Then we can decide who to lynch out of the three of us today, and if SL makes it through the night then that gives him another investigation tomorrow. If he comes up with another innocent then we know he must not be the cop, or someone has investigation immunity. But right now, where we are, I think that Turbo is the best lynch for today, (of course this is without knowing the role he claims) or if MBL is counterclaimed I think he is the best lynch today. But I think scum lie in those two people.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ozy was killed by a serial killer, I think. In retrospect, he was axed right after I expressed the difficulty scum would have in getting him killed, and I think an SK probably looked at that and said, "Shit, I can't win as long as that guy's in the game so he'd might as well go now." The alternate explanation is that town looked at him and suddenly decided he was the scummiest player in the game, and no one's remotely expressed that thought besides kil, who claims not to have killed Ozy. It looks like an SK dayvig kill.

A game start with three scum and one player capable of being converted to scum would be unbalanced against town. That's four scum out of twelve players with no prospect for a cross-kill--just not reasonable. There could be four scum plus an SK, but that also makes things dire for town, who could be close to lynch or lose after night one.

So it's either two original scum plus one recruit plus an SK or two original scum plus one recruit vs a town with a vig. With Mert (godfather) dead and Ozy (recruit) dead, it's most likely there's a scum and an SK remaining.

If there are two scum left and SL is a real cop, then those scum are kil and Turbo. If there's just one scum left, they're probably not an SK, they're pure mafia.

SL could also be a naive cop. Or scum. His failure to identify a single scumbag in three tries is notable.

[kilmenator]

MBL- you failed to claim, as geraintm asked. Is it that you are not the doc and are avoiding claiming? If you are the doc, you are already outed by me, so a claim might be smart on your part.

[Turbovolver]

I'm just checking in here because posting is hell on my girlfriend's computer.

I didn't daykill nobody. And I thought autoload was a modkill because he wasn't posting. I'll have to go reread that.

[Turbovolver]

Mod says no prods needed as posting has been good, but autoload certainly hadn't posted in a while. Then again, that probably means no prods are needed because someone just killed autoload.

I checked the frontpage, the modkills are specified whereas this kill is not listed as a modkill.

So that means there are multiple daykills, and now I'm thinking there is an SK - most likely a daykilling SK who can only shoot once every second day.

Now I can see no reason not to take out ShadowLurker unless one of the following is true

* ShadowLurker is actually the SK and has been lying about getting innocent results - those people aren't actually cleared.

* ShadowLurker can only find mafia, not the SK, and so SK is happy to keep ShadowLurker around. How would the SK know this though, unless they'd already been investigated?

* SK avoided killing ShadowLurker just to cast suspicion on the people implicated above.


So yeah, it's actually quite WIFOM, but I think the last possibility is less likely because it carries with it the inherent risk of getting investigated by SL and busted as SK.

[MrBuddyLee]

No, I'm not going to claim yet. If we have a vig, a doc and/or an RB you've already done enough damage this game by painting a clearer and clearer picture for scum. In the event that ShadowLurker is actually a naive cop or an SK, a massclaim would be extremely unhealthy for us at this point.

Seriously, everyone should reread the thread and see who had motive to daykill Patrick and Ozy. Our fate in this game relies upon determining whether those kills are pro-town or anti-town.

[ShadowLurker]

Well, I could see MBL being a...scum who...successfully recruited) Ozy.

The more and more I think about it the more and more I'm leaning towards this explanation

[MrBuddyLee]

If Adele, kilmenator or geraint are the daykiller, they're SK not vig:

Ok, wasn't expecting that. I leave for the weekend for some Choas and come back to another ded body.
I went back and looked over Patrick's posts quickly, and all i basically got from it was it felt like a townie without an especially powerful, active role just trying to stay out of the way.
Why whoever it was with a kill decided upon him, i can't think. Patrick seemed harmless to me...

The problem I'm having here is, it's doubtful there is an SK considering how the night's have gone.

I'm not certain, but I think there is an SK.

for the most part I thought he was a pro-town player. I almost thought him as a cop because of this post.

Norinel avoided comment on Patrick's death, Turbo was on Patrick before Patrick's death. Kil's made it pretty clear I'm not the daykiller. That leaves ShadowLurker, who would also have to be scum if he's the daykiller due to the fact that a cop+dayvig role is overpowered and thus he'd have to be lying about the cop part if he has killing privileges.

Summarizing, if the daykiller's Norinel or Turbo, they could be either SK or vig. If the daykiller's kil, Adele, SL or geraint, they're an SK.

I'll leave it at this point up to Norinel and Turbo to decide whether or not they think it's wise to claim or deny daykiller. If NEITHER of you is, confirmation of that will be evidence of an SK in the game, which is something we would benefit from knowing.

As for scum, same arguments as before apply. One of {kil, MBL, turbo} or SL's naive/scum.

[kilmenator]

Well, I could see MBL being a...scum who...successfully recruited) Ozy.

The more and more I think about it the more and more I'm leaning towards this explanation

Turbo, as you just checked page one, you should know that he was unlynchable townie on day one who turned scum goon. Either you purposely overlooked that point, or you didnt see it. We obviously have a day killer, whether or not it is scum or not is to be determined. If Turbo is not the day killer, then someone other than SL, MBL, me, and turbo are the day killer. It might be wise if there is a day killer to speak up, because if not, I would bet it is turbo.

MBL- I already outed you, if you are the doc you need to claim. There is no other way you can explain yourself. Other than you are the doc or you are scum. Which is it?

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't have to claim squat, cause if I do it'll potentially put others in danger as well. You're either scum pressing for information or you're town letting your curiosity get the best of you.

We need to get people on the record about what they "think" we're up against before they get a chance to change their stories.

[kilmenator]

You are right, you do not have to claim, and yes my curiousity is getting to me. But that is because I feel like you are not really the doc. But, I also dont feel your vote on me is justified, being that there is no way you would be alive if I am scum.

Anyway, I think we have at least one scum left, and possibly a serial killer or some type of day killer.

[geraintm]

Vote MrBuddyLee

you had ample oppotunity to say what you do, and you haven't

You are the Unlynchable Townie. You have immunity from lynches, so if you are lynched, the lynch will fail and night will proceed.

You are a Mafia Goon. You have no special abilities.

I don't know if everyone is assuming this, but there is no mention in the Mod's post that him turning into a goon was due to his lynching. That might be what is meant to be assumed, but i think MBL is some sort of mafia recruiter.

If MBL is a mafia recruiter, picking up Ozy night one or Day 2,then i think i would expect there maybe to be another person recruited unless it was a one shot deal on the recruiter's behalf.

[Turbovolver]

Kilmenator, yes I did forget that the mod had confirmed that Ozy was once protown.

geraintm, I highly doubt a mafia recruiter would be allowed multiple recruits. Even if the game started with just a mafia recruiter, that's still a cult with nightkills!

I don't see any evidence for or against a mafia recruiter here. Particularly notable is geraintm voting MrBuddyLee because "the mod's words don't rule out a recruiter". Which is a true statement, but says nothing of MBL's alignment!

This is more craplogic from geraintm, and now I am home I'll get to the earlier stuff.

[Turbovolver]

Nope, i was still voting for you, hadn't backed down when i wrote that post.

Yes, you were still voting for me, but you backed down on some of your reasoning (and failed to provide any more detail on the other part of it).


Here is geraintm's justification for his vote on me:

too many of his posts just seemed to be him asking others their opinion (when i just went back over his posts) and his going after Klebian now justs seems poor.

When I ask for him to justify, he gives

and you never let up on him from then on, even when you say you are backing off of him, you later find cause on about the 9th to keep on at him. In hindsight, it didn't look good to me when i reread your posts. and when looking at only certain people's behaviour, you vs klebian yesterday made me kinda go hmm...

as his explanation for the "going after klebian" part. So, nothing solid yet.
He also posts

I don't know where i am going with this though anymore. As i said, Auto's death has confused me.

as his explanation of the "asking people questions" part, after providing evidence of said questions. How this is not backing down is beyond me. He clearly says he doesn't even know how it's scummy anymore, because autoload died. But what does autoload have to do with me asking questions? NOTHING!

Geraintm launched a vague attack on me, and when I asked him to clarify he said "yeah I don't know what I was going for there, I'm confused because <COMPLETELY UNRELATED EVENT HAPPENED>". This is really scummy, it smacks of scum using vague justifications and getting caught out on it and explaining badly.
If it wasn't for the cop investigation I'd be voting geraintm right now, and even still he is causing me to seriously doubt ShadowLurker.

[geraintm]

geraintm, I highly doubt a mafia recruiter would be allowed multiple recruits. Even if the game started with just a mafia recruiter, that's still a cult with nightkills!

I don't see any evidence for or against a mafia recruiter here. Particularly notable is geraintm voting MrBuddyLee because "the mod's words don't rule out a recruiter". Which is a true statement, but says nothing of MBL's alignment!

This is more craplogic from geraintm, and now I am home I'll get to the earlier stuff.

i agree with the multiple recruiting part, but this seems an odd enough game to not rule it out.
i think MBL is a recruiter. To me it fits better with his known targetting of Ozy and Ozy's then subsequent change from town to scum than Ozy flipping into scum because he got lynched.

Turbo, you asked me to provide examples to back up when i said i got the impression from rereading your posts that you liked asking questions. i did this even though i knew at the time i was confused by how the day was going. You had asked me to respong and i felt obliged to.

Auto/Ozy died after my vote for you and before i responded to your post. there had been a significant change in the state of play. I voted for you because at the time i thought you were the best person to vote for. i hope you allow me to change my mind on where to vote when something as serious as another player dieing occurs. And to say Auto/ozy's death is unreleated is strange, everything in a game of mafia is related...

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd like to see everyone's opinions on the following:

Who are your candidates, in order, for last remaining mafia member and why?

Is the daykiller SK or vig? Why?

If SK, who is it?

There will be four people remaining after tomorrow's daykill. If we don't hit scum today, that could very well be one scum one SK and two town, and we'd be close to fucked.

If we DO hit scum today, we'll probably be down to an SK and three town, which is still lynch or lose. So I'd like to see people on the record about both scum and SK, because some people appear to be in a rush to avoid those topics, get a quick kill in and move on to tomorrow.