Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't see any other way to move forward at this point, and I don't want this game to get dull. I think it's too late for scum to overcome our lead now, but we'll see. I delayed because I was looking for clues in the way people talked about the different day and night kills to see who might let on about their targets. Scum have clearly been blocked by the doc two nights in a row and I thought someone might stumble when talking about their night target.

I know there's a doctor, but I'm not him. I'm the

protown insomniac vigilante

. I have to kill once a day in the daytime or nighttime.

Day one I replaced in, night one I didn't buy the unlynchable town bit and decided that Ozy was >50% scum so I tried to gank him. I was blocked by either a doctor or a roleblocker, and the kill didn't go through. Since I wasn't particularly scummy at the time, I'm 95% sure we have a doctor. Since scum's kill also didn't go through, I'm thinking they targeted Ozy as well.

Once I realized that we had a doc, and soon after realized we had a cop, top priority became to protect the doctor at all costs. Kil provided the opportunity. So I hinted at knowing why there were no nightkills, trying to pull the flak. Every night the doctor survives is another night of free investigations. There's no SK in this game--we're after a scumteam that's probably down to one.

I'll be happy to kill whoever you guys want tonight or tomorrow to prove my ability.

I expect scum to try and get me lynched quickly and then to try and ferret out the doc and kill him/her tonight. That would leave five of you tomorrow and one scum, and you'll have to decide whether or not to believe ShadowLurker. Personally, I think the timing of his play makes him town. I don't think the game's balanced if he's town, because the doc-cop-vig combo is so powerful, but I do think he's played a pro-town game thus far.

If I get quicklynched, look at Kil, Turbo or SL as your final scum tomorrow, in that order. The way Adele's played, she really doesn't look like town this game, but since there's no SK, she can only be scum if Shadowlurker's naive. Heed that as my final advice to you if/when you see my role come up at sunset tonight.

[geraintm]

you say there is no SK, how do you explain Patrick's death then?

[MrBuddyLee]

I know there's a doctor, but I'm not him. I'm the

protown insomniac vigilante

. I have to kill once a day in the daytime or nighttime.

No one day one, didn't understand the situation well enough to vig.
Night one, ozy.
Day two, Patrick.
Day three, ozy.

[kilmenator]

So you are saying that you did not target anyone last night?

[MrBuddyLee]

Correct.

[kilmenator]

Not buying your claim at all!

Here is why...

I suppose if I'm busing Ozy, I should vote for him.

vote: Ozy

Why, for example, is no one commenting on the makeup of the Ozy lynch? The first thing I did when he came up townish was reread to see who made a scummy attempt to get Ozy lynched. I find it odd that kil and Patrick avoided making such comments.

Interesting eh? The person who was bussing ozy says he goes back after the ozy lynch to see who made an attempt to get ozy lynched, yet... who was it? The man in question.

Tell you what, it's obvious from kil's post that I have a night action, so I won't bother hiding that. I'll add that I may know why there was no NK last night. If you guys really want to push this, go for it, but I can only see it causing a huge mess. I'm going to go back to finding scum, and

I don't think kil or Ozy are it

, which narrows things a bit.

His claim says that he found ozy scummy enough to try and NK him that night, yet right here he says he thinks ozy is not scum. Why would you have tried to NK him and then have such a turn around that he is pro-town? He also says he thinks I am not scum. Funny, though because now he is pushing me as scum. Also, this looks a little like someone who just recruited trying to take heat of that person.

Problem is, there could be other explanations for the

lack of

nightkill besides my action. So I don't see any way to confirm me or the alignment of my target today.

1. Sounds like a doc claim to me, and yet he hasnt died at night. If he were not scum then scum would have wacked him.
2. Sounds a heck of a lot like someone who was trying to prevent a NK ot make one happen.

I really want to know who did that, but I don't think it's a good idea for them to step forward unless that was a 1-shot.

Why would you have wanted to know if you already knew and that it was you? This seems to appear pro-town with the connotation of saying, I didnt think Pat was that scummy, why did someone kill him?

Just one? I can think of three (doc protection, blocked scum, NK-immune target) off the top of my head using standard roles, two of which a tracker could partially confirm.

I'll operate on the most likely one til there's more evidence. There could definitely be another explanation but the odds for now favor me operating based on mine.

This comment doesnt jive at all with your claimed role.

I think geraint, klebian and Turbo are most likely to be scum. If we lynch those three I think we hit two and win, and if there's a vig, even better. Let's reach a consensus.

Again, the whole vig thing.

Definitely not excited about the people advocating wasting another lynch on Ozy. Sure, there's a chance he's scum, but is it likely? It's a play that doesn't make sense for protown players to push.

Again, protecting someone he tried to NK. Not to logical, unless of course you just recruited them to scum.

This game had a scum godfather, which is a pretty huge advantage for scum. I'd be surprised if they got an additional benefit from recruiting dead townies to their side.

I never mentioned recruiting townies to their side, you brought it up!

Autoload made the same play as town in a newbie game he replaced into. I'm thinking that as a newbie he has yet to understand the value of patience in these games.

His previous quote says we need to evaluate whether or not ozy is scum by his behavior, but when someone called auto scummy, he stuck up for him.

For Ozy to be unlynchable scum, we'd have to accept that the only way to kill him is to vig him. If the vig dies, Ozy would be unkillable.

Now, ozy is killed (SK'ed or Viged) strange that all along MBL has been saying that it was probably an SK who killed ozy, but now he himself is claiming to have killed ozy as a vig.???

Ozy was killed by a serial killer, I think. In retrospect, he was axed right after I expressed the difficulty scum would have in getting him killed, and I think an SK probably looked at that and said, "Shit, I can't win as long as that guy's in the game so he'd might as well go now." The alternate explanation is that town looked at him and suddenly decided he was the scummiest player in the game, and no one's remotely expressed that thought besides kil, who claims not to have killed Ozy. It looks like an SK dayvig kill.

So it's either two original scum plus one recruit plus an SK or two original scum plus one recruit vs a town with a vig. With Mert (godfather) dead and Ozy (recruit) dead, it's most likely there's a scum and an SK remaining.

Now, hold the reigns buddie, a few quotes ago, you said it would not be balanced if scum could recruit and here you go basically thinking they possibly could.

And why are you cleared in the least? Scum and SK will likely have powers in addition to killing ability. Your big theory is that I'm a mafia who can

kill and recruit

and yet you try to pretend like because you can track you can't kill?

Again, I never had that theory, that theory came from you! Freudian Slip eh?

[kilmenator]

And, what if I lied about who I tracked last night to see what you would claim? What if now I know that you lied? Would that then make you scum?

[Adele]

That's the problem with claimed vigs, isn't it? Hang on...

And, what if I lied about who I tracked last night to see what you would claim? What if now I know that you lied? Would that then make you scum?

Just saw this. If you're saying what I think you're saying, Kil, then I'll be voting MBL now.

[Adele]

This doesn't seem to jibe with what you were saying eariler, I have to say. Also, the suggestion that there's one scum left out there... are you trying to say the game started with a scum team of 2? Seems unlikely.

Since I wasn't particularly scummy at the time, I'm 95% sure we have a doctor. Since scum's kill also didn't go through, I'm thinking they targeted Ozy as well.

wouldn't Ozy have been vamp'd by then?

I trust Kil so very way more than MBL right now. If he confirms that he's saying what he seems to be saying, I'll happily vote/hammer MBL.

[MrBuddyLee]

Adele, you have a longstanding policy about lynching all liars. I'm fascinated to see you abandon it so conveniently right now and ignore kilmenator's transgression.

Please elaborate on your inconsistency.

(And note the quicklynch in motion.)

[MrBuddyLee]

Couple things off the top of my head, kil.

First, you seem to be missing the point of my deception and my behavior towards Ozy. I tried to vig him, got blocked, realized scum apparently also got blocked, and concluded that Ozy was town who scum tried to off N1. So after that I was defending Ozy as town, poking at the people who tried too aggressively to lynch him, and thanks to you, explaining away my actions in a way that protected the real doctor, who may still be alive partially due to the confusion I created around the whole claim situation. I'm guessing the real doc protected me or ShadowLurker N2, and that's why there was no kill that night.

Second, you're missing the point of the Patrick/SK chatter--it was to disguise the fact that I'm a vig in case it came down to a small number of players at endgame. You kind of forced all this on me by prematurely revealing that you tracked me N1, the kind of move that really cramps a vig's style and makes it easier for scum to identify other power roles by process of elimination.

Like I said, you don't have to trust me. But if you give me a vig target I'll prove to you that I am who I say I am. (As best I can.)

[Adele]

Adele, you have a longstanding policy about lynching all liars. I'm fascinated to see you abandon it so conveniently right now and ignore kilmenator's transgression.

Please elaborate on your inconsistency.

(And note the quicklynch in motion.)

That's right, I do. Did Kil actually say he didn't target you though, or just imply it?

In any case, I believe #756, so that has me thinking that you lied too. So, why not lynch you today and Kil tomorrow? - assuming the game's still going, of course. You have my word that if we lynch you and you come up town, I will vote and heavily persue Kil, and even if you're scum, I expect some shuffling of feet from him.

I certainly don't think that, given two liars, we should focus first on the one who was honest about it. That makes no sense.

Hmm, but why are you not chuffed about this if you're telling the truth though, MBL? Obviously if you're telling the truth Kil's antitown and he'd die tomorrow anyway; a one-of-each swap bringing down, according to your theory, the last scumzar. But you seem pissed, as if you were lying about being pro-town, and a one-of-each hurts your WC chances so much more.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kil, please claim your "new" night result. I didn't place any orders last night, due to having used my ability during daytime, so I'm fascinated to see what you'll come up with.

If kil's claiming I took a night action last night, then she's scum of some kind. Flat out.

This doesn't seem to jibe with what you were saying eariler, I have to say. Also, the suggestion that there's one scum left out there... are you trying to say the game started with a scum team of 2? Seems unlikely.

Since I wasn't particularly scummy at the time, I'm 95% sure we have a doctor. Since scum's kill also didn't go through, I'm thinking they targeted Ozy as well.

wouldn't Ozy have been vamp'd by then?

I think Ozy could have been converted any of several nights, but I didn't have that information available when I vigged him the first time. Kil's right, she wasn't the first one to raise the recruiting theory, but someone else did, I forget who.

Turbo, Norinel, ShadowLurker, it's all on the table now. Need your input.

[Adele]

Like I said, you don't have to trust me. But if you give me a vig target I'll prove to you that I am who I say I am. (As best I can.)

I'm really not sure I want to leave scum living to go around killing the town. If you were to convince the rest of the town, and if you and Kil are claiming mutually exclusive descriptions of last night's events, I guess he'd make sense as a target for you - but I don't know whether that should happen tonight or tomorrow - heck, why not let Kil decide?

I think Ozy could have been converted any of several nights, but I didn't have that information available when I vigged him the first time.

The "unlynchable lynched ---> scum" looks very vampirish to me; I'd expect he was converted when we lynched him. Even if you're right, why would scum try to NK someone they could convert?
What am I missing here? It makes no sense.

Though yes, I do want to hear from Kil.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kil's a she, and naturally I'm not impressed to see people going after the vig. It's the kind of behavior I'd expect from scum... to try and knock protown kills down from two a day to one a day right away.

And that nonsense about kil implying anything... she stated her claimed target plainly as day, I believe. You sure are stretching to achieve your desired goal, Adele, rather than following where the logic leads you.

I repeat, my role is provable. I'll vig whoever you want, probably kil if she comes out with a phony result, and if the game's not over, axe me or try again. It's not complicated. We whack two potential scum a day and they only get one of us. It's a no-brainer, it seems.

Need to hear from everyone on the current situation, don't let people skate by without comment regardless of your prejudices. If you take hasty action I guarantee you you'll be in hot water tomorrow.

[Adele]

Kil's a she, and naturally I'm not impressed to see people going after the vig. It's the kind of behavior I'd expect from scum... to try and knock protown kills down from two a day to one a day right away.

And that nonsense about kil implying anything... she stated her claimed target plainly as day, I believe. You sure are stretching to achieve your desired goal, Adele, rather than following where the logic leads you.

I repeat, my role is provable. I'll vig whoever you want, probably kil if she comes out with a phony result, and if the game's not over, axe me or try again. It's not complicated. We whack two potential scum a day and they only get one of us. It's a no-brainer, it seems.

Need to hear from everyone on the current situation, don't let people skate by without comment regardless of your prejudices. If you take hasty action I guarantee you you'll be in hot water tomorrow.

Don't worry, I'm not about to vote tonight. You're actually starting to convince me...

if

you do take town guidance. Are we talking about you vigging the runner up at lynchtime, or some other voting method? Because I certainly don't think it should be your decision (or, come to that, mine), but a group call.

And I really

do

hate liars.

As to me "going after the vig", the problem with vigs is that they're exactly the same as scum except for their alignment (which scum always lie about) and their commonness (they're rarer). I mean, say you're lying about being the vig. Then you're (presumably) scum. Then you can kill. Then you can "prove" your viggyness.
That's the problem with vigs.

[MrBuddyLee]

Let's let everyone weigh in, I'm not going anywhere.

[Adele]

Agreed. I'll shut up for a while now.

[kilmenator]

I almost want to lie and say that I did target him last night and that he did have some sort of a night result, but I cant do that. I said that comment to see how he would react. I am not entirely sold on his claim, and I am almost definite that he is scum. But I did not track him last night. I honestly tracked Adele and Adele had no night target.

I still do not believe his defense, being that he was so adamant about it being an SK who killed Patrick and Ozy. Also, if you look at the kill scene of Ozy, you will see that Ozy was converted scum. The word converted there, makes me believe it was because of some outside action, not because of his lynch.

MBL- Could you tell us why you killed Patrick? And what made you think that Ozy could possibly be scum when you so adamantly disagreed with his lynch and with me saying he could be scum the whole time??

If MBL is not Scum, kill me tomorrow, but I am sure he is scum. If you want to test MBL's ability, he can try it on me, but of course, I would like it if the town would say so, and again, we really wouldnt get his alignment, just the fact that he can in fact do as he says. Also, MBL, didnt you already use your kill today? So you wouldnt be able to prove it this time would you? Also, if anyone out there made either of the kills in the day maybe they should come out, because that would show that MBL is definitely lying.

As MBL said before, if we have a doc, RB, cop, and tracker, then the game is extremely unbalanced, but if we have a mafia recruiter, an SK, godfather, then the game would be much more balanced. Being that I know my role, and have no reason not to believe SL (cop), I believe we have a doc, (which if the doc could give an indication of whether or not he healed ozy N1, then we would know if MBL was lying.) then we most defeintely have more than one scum party out there. But I would bet trying to outguess the mod in this game is a little crazy, being that I bet we all have power roles.

Again, I did not track MBL last night, I wanted a reaction, but I honestly do believe he is scum.

Confirm vote MBL

[kilmenator]

I'm more the type of vig who looks for town approval. If no one but me thinks a guy's scum, I have to be pretty confident in order to kill someone and randomize the game like that.

I'll look into those quotes, maybe I got confused but we'll see.

Where did you look for town approval?

Well unless it's you, I'm not going to buy your hunch. If you're believing they're town based on your investigation only, I think you're being naive.

And I don't think the kills themselves look entirely pro-town

reasoned, at least as reasoned in thread. No one made a compelling case for Patrick and Ozy to be scum before they died as far as I know.

You kind of stopped playing once you claimed and you've been letting everything ride on that.

Quotes from the man himself. Kind of seals the deal in my mind.

[MrBuddyLee]

OK, I called your bluff. I didn't do anything last night and stood my ground in the face of your disinformation. If I was scum I'd have made up a story to explain away your "claimed" night result, but I'm not, and I think you just tried to pull a fast one on us.

And wow, asking the doctor to come forward at this point is just not protown at all. It really looks like you're lining up a set of kills, kil. Lynch the vig, nk the doc and hope against hope you can persuade town the cop is scum tomorrow.

My suspicions haven't changed much today. kil, turbo or SL. That stuff about Adele and Norinel was baloney to cover my knowledge that there is no SK. They can't be scum unless SL is naive, which is possible but not likely, particularly given these recent events.

[kilmenator]

Come on now, I could have just lied and you would have been lynched, No Questions Asked. I wasnt asking the Doc to come forward, but I was making a point that if the doc did not heal ozy N1 and if you were not RB'ed then you would have to have been a recruiter.

And by the way you did not answer any of my questions. Your claim doesnt line up with your play. You also are saying Norinel and Adele are cleared, but fail to mention Geraintm? Is that significant? Either SL is right about them, or he is naive, OR they have immunity. If you think that I was trying to mess with the town, and you think that is anti town, what do you have to say for yourself? You basically led the town completely astray.

If we get rid of MBL tonight and he is not scum, then kill me, but I believe I have presented a pretty good case of why MBL's claim doesnt work with his actions thus far in the game.

[kilmenator]

Ps. I am pretty sure I know who the doc is anyway, along with anyone else who reads the thread would as well.

[MrBuddyLee]

Doc and cop actions don't typically match up with their play, or else they'd get nailed every time N1.

As for your "trap" you set, if you got caught in your lie and I got lynched as town, you couldn't win cause you'd get lynched right away tomorrow. You realized your gambit failed and you backed out before you got caught, and now you're looking for a way to get me killed without being proven any more of a truth-stretcher than you already are. Or you're nutty town--there are plenty of other townies besides me who can help gauge that.

[geraintm]

very quick post. i want the otehrs besides Adele, MBL and KIlm to chime in.

Basically, Kilm, having had a read of what went on overnight, you seem odd. to me it seems MBL is being more honest than you, you seem to be lying to try and trap him and failing, and you come out of it at the end of the day looking like you are pushing very hard to get MBL lynched.
but i want to know what the others think now.