Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[kilmenator]

Turbo - What? I am not trying to justify him at all, I am saying it is crap what he is doing. I am not at all against lynching him, being that all game I have been pointing out he could very well not be an unlynchable townie he could be a townie who was lynched and comes back as a scum. I was saying his playstyle seems like he doesnt care, therefore would be less likely to respond even if pressure was put on him.

[Adele]

I have submitted my check of geraintm.

you are investigating me as your day cop activity? good i'll come up as a good guy...

:sigh:
That's not good. An investigation of a bad guy is more useful than an investiagtion of a good guy, right? Big picture, geraintm.

Give us a scum a day, that's all we ask.

heh. I misread that as "Give us scum a day, that's all we ask" originally I thought "Wow that's unusually anti-WC of MBL, but nice of him I guess..."

I have been pointing out he could very well not be an unlynchable townie he could be a townie who was lynched and comes back as a scum.

Isn't vampire kind of a zebra?

[ShadowLurker]

I got geraintm as town, I really hope I'm not naive, but that leaves Patrick/Turbo unless we think by some logic that MBL and kilmenator are scum.

I g2g now, barely had time.

[geraintm]

I have submitted my check of geraintm.

you are investigating me as your day cop activity? good i'll come up as a good guy...

:sigh:
That's not good. An investigation of a bad guy is more useful than an investiagtion of a good guy, right? Big picture, geraintm.

i am town and want more confirmed townies. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to come up as scum being town, that would have been hard to explain...
if i were scum, i wouldn't have wanted to have been investigated at all. obv would have been more useful if he had investigated someone else and come up with a guilty verdict on them.

I have been pointing out he could very well not be an unlynchable townie he could be a townie who was lynched and comes back as a scum.

Isn't vampire kind of a zebra?

What do you mean here? vampire zebra?

I got geraintm as town, I really hope I'm not naive, but that leaves Patrick/Turbo unless we think by some logic that MBL and kilmenator are scum.

I g2g now, barely had time.

patrick? Patrick's gone Shadow...
Does that mean turbo is where Shadow thinks we should be looking at then?

vote turbo

too many of his posts just seemed to be him asking others their opinion (when i just went back over his posts) and his going after Klebian now justs seems poor.

anyways, i'll vote turbo and see where things go.

[Adele]

i am town and want more confirmed townies. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to come up as scum being town, that would have been hard to explain...
if i were scum, i wouldn't have wanted to have been investigated at all. obv would have been more useful if he had investigated someone else and come up with a guilty verdict on them.

You want confirmed scumzars more than confirmed townies, right? And you (from your POV) are a townie. Hence, it's

bad

that you got investigated.

I have been pointing out he could very well not be an unlynchable townie he could be a townie who was lynched and comes back as a scum.

Isn't vampire kind of a zebra?

What do you mean here? vampire zebra?

Zebra is a slang medical term for an obscure and unlikely diagnosis from ordinary symptoms.

It derives from the aphorism "When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra," which was probably coined by Dr. Theodore Woodward, a former professor at the University of Maryland, Baltimore, School of Medicine.[1] It is also phrased as "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras."[2]

I guess "improbable role" would've been better, but it foolishly didn't occur to me that you'd be unfamiliar with it, since I've some across it several times in Scrubs, ER and (I think) Casualty, and have used it in casual discussion without trouble.

[geraintm]

You want confirmed scumzars more than confirmed townies, right? And you (from your POV) are a townie. Hence, it's

bad

that you got investigated.

ah, i see what you mean fair enough. possibly thinking a little selfishly then, wanting to be cleared.

What do you mean here? vampire zebra?

Zebra is a slang medical term for an obscure and unlikely diagnosis from ordinary symptoms.
I guess "improbable role" would've been better, but it foolishly didn't occur to me that you'd be unfamiliar with it, since I've some across it several times in Scrubs, ER and (I think) Casualty, and have used it in casual discussion without trouble.

as i watch 2/3 of those, i should have heard it too then. i like the phrase.
this is my first time out of the newbie room so roles besides cop/doc/mafia are all new to me...

[MrBuddyLee]

"Confirmed innocent" by SL:

SL, Norinel, Adele, geraint

Remaining: turbo, autoload, kilmenator

I'll roll with turbovolver and kilmenator as the final two scum. I just don't see Ozy's claim and role as scummy in the least.

We get another result from SL tomorrow. I say we lynch turbo or kil, if they turn up town we lynch the other one tomorrow. If we hit 1/2 we're at lynch or lose: 4 remaining, one scum, and we decide between SL and his guilty result. The only way this plan fails is if the scumteam is ShadowLurker+autoload. If both kil+turbo are scum, we win.

If there's a daykill available, that's a possibility as well. There's still a chance the daykill was performed by an SK I suppose, but I think they'd be a pretty underpowered SK if that's the case.

[Norinel]

Zebra is a slang medical term for an obscure and unlikely diagnosis from ordinary symptoms.

It derives from the aphorism "When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra," which was probably coined by Dr. Theodore Woodward, a former professor at the University of Maryland, Baltimore, School of Medicine.[1] It is also phrased as "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras."[2]

I guess "improbable role" would've been better, but it foolishly didn't occur to me that you'd be unfamiliar with it, since I've some across it several times in Scrubs, ER and (I think) Casualty, and have used it in casual discussion without trouble.

Having been on the receiving end of something that actually turned out to be a zebra (Designer Mafia I, all but cleared and confirmed sane cop with a N1 guilty result on me; good old mafia framer actually hit for once) I for one try to avoid writing the possibility off entirely, especially when doing so can cost the town the game.

"Confirmed innocent" by SL:

SL, Norinel, Adele, geraint

Remaining: turbo, autoload, kilmenator

I'll roll with turbovolver and kilmenator as the final two scum. I just don't see Ozy's claim and role as scummy in the least.

We get another result from SL tomorrow. I say we lynch turbo or kil, if they turn up town we lynch the other one tomorrow. If we hit 1/2 we're at lynch or lose: 4 remaining, one scum, and we decide between SL and his guilty result. The only way this plan fails is if the scumteam is ShadowLurker+autoload. If both kil+turbo are scum, we win.

I'm not sure we should trust SL in particular and the other claimed but unconfirmed roles in general all that much farther without something a little stronger to go on. If everyone is what they've claimed and scum are paying any attention at all, we almost certainly would've woken up to a dead doc this morning.

Also, Day 2 you kind of confirmed kilme as having a tracking ability. Do you think he's a scum tracker, or made a lucky guess, or what?

[MrBuddyLee]

At this point, either SL's gambitting scum or two of {kil, ozy, turbo} are scum. In my mind, there's no (c).

Rereads of SL's play lead me to believe he had no reason to make that move at that time as scum. It's possible, but unlikely.

Of {kil, ozy, turbo} there are several ways to look at it:

* turbo's acted the least scummy.
* ozy's confirmed role looks the least scummy. (how can town kill him if he's unlynchable)
* a tracker role is rarely scummy.

So if I decide that SL's likely gg, I have to roll with one of those three assumptions.

In this game with a billion power roles, I can see a scumtracker as useful to their side. If scum don't have powers, I don't see M-M willing to off the godfather as readily as he did.

Turbo's a good player, I could conceivably see him appearing pro-town when he's not. There's nothing in his voting pattern that makes him any more pro-town than anyone else.

Ozy/autoload hasn't acted particularly protown. But for Ozy to be unlynchable scum, the mod would have to have placed the fate of the game squarely in a vigilante's hands, which I don't see as reasonable.

Given all those options, I conclude that kil is a scum tracker and turbo is probably scum concealing his scum power role.

[kilmenator]

Since I am a pro-town tracker, that logic does not work. If you are willing to bet that my role is unlikely but saying it is true, wouldnt that logic hold true to ozy's role as well? Doesnt really make much sense. I am pushing for a mass claim, that is the best way to go about today, since we are unsure of SL's investigations, I think it would be smart to mass claim, if we are totally against a mass claim I think we should lynch turbo, being that we are most likely to hit scum because the only other options are MBL being scum, that way tomorrow we can give our investigations and such. The fact that MBL has not yet been NKed leads me to believe that he is either scum or scum has been RB'ed at night. I dont know, with so many power roles, this game is insanely crazy!

[MrBuddyLee]

Since I am a pro-town tracker, that logic does not work. If you are willing to bet that my role is unlikely but saying it is true, wouldnt that logic hold true to ozy's role as well? Doesnt really make much sense.

For Ozy to be unlynchable scum, we'd have to accept that the only way to kill him is to vig him. If the vig dies, Ozy would be unkillable.

For you to be scum, we have to accept that a claimed tracker is scum and not town, which seems unlikely but not as unlikely as the above scenario.

For turbo to be scum we'd have to accept that he's played well.

The fact that MBL has not yet been NKed leads me to believe that he is either scum or scum has been RB'ed at night. I dont know, with so many power roles, this game is insanely crazy!

Doesn't this apply to anyone who's alive? Someone got kill-targeted and the kill failed. (Or scum didnt turn in a kill.) I'd actually think unconfirmed players are less likely to be nightkilled, so I'm not sure why my survival surprises you.

[kilmenator]

If I have an idea of what your role is, then so do the other players in this game. If in fact, without you technically claiming, I am assuming your role correctly. Even that proves that I would be pro town because I have not targetted you yet, and I think I have a pretty good idea of your role. Again, Please read the other DOOM game and the role that I am describing is one in which a person is lynched as town comes back as scum, but can be lynched again. They are not at all unlychable, they just get to come back into the game as the opposite side, but can still be lynched the second time. What would it benefit scum if I were a scum tracker? It wouldnt make much sense because then I would have to be able to tell them who was targetted the night before, and how would I be able to do that without everyone knowing?

[MrBuddyLee]

Even that proves that I would be pro town because I have not targetted you yet, and I think I have a pretty good idea of your role.

Wait, you tried to force me to roleclaim on D2 based on some info you had. Now you say you didn't target me yet? The only possible conclusion I can reach is that you tracked someone else to my house on the night no one died, and assumed that person was a roleblocker who blocked me, the killer. Which is not only grossly incorrect, but doesn't seem even remotely likely enough of a possibility to try to force a claim out of someone. Wouldn't I be just as likely or more so to be the target as the killer?

OK, your actions throughout this game are making less and less sense from a pro-town perspective, leading me to believe you've been lying about them. Town's actions usually follow a simple consistency: "X was scummy d1 so I investigated them. I got a guilty so im forcing a claim." Your actions don't seem the least bit consistent.

[Turbovolver]

Turbo - What? I am not trying to justify him at all, I am saying it is crap what he is doing. I am not at all against lynching him, being that all game I have been pointing out he could very well not be an unlynchable townie he could be a townie who was lynched and comes back as a scum. I was saying his playstyle seems like he doesnt care, therefore would be less likely to respond even if pressure was put on him.

Well I see better what you are saying now, but that doesn't change the fact that it's weird.

Basically you are saying, "Sure he ended the day all of a sudden and lurked when questioned about it, but that would make sense with his playstyle!" Y'know, as opposed to making sense because he's scum. And now you're trying to say that no, that's not a defense of him.

MBL did a similar thing, but he was at least quoting another game as evidence (I still want to know what game that was).

[Turbovolver]

vote turbo

too many of his posts just seemed to be him asking others their opinion (when i just went back over his posts) and his going after Klebian now justs seems poor.

anyways, i'll vote turbo and see where things go.

Yes, I do ask a lot of questions. I'm a firm believer in giving people a chance to explain the things I find suspicious, because what I'm searching for is what motivates their replies. You need to probe to find scum.
You say I'm asking others their opinion too much, though?! Please, give me some examples.

And my going after Klebian was poor? Well you had plenty of chance to say that yesterday, y'know, instead of saying you agreed with the arguments against him and voting him.

[kilmenator]

Even that proves that I would be pro town because I have not targetted you yet, and I think I have a pretty good idea of your role.

Wait, you tried to force me to roleclaim on D2 based on some info you had. Now you say you didn't target me yet? The only possible conclusion I can reach is that you tracked someone else to my house on the night no one died, and assumed that person was a roleblocker who blocked me, the killer. Which is not only grossly incorrect, but doesn't seem even remotely likely enough of a possibility to try to force a claim out of someone. Wouldn't I be just as likely or more so to be the target as the killer?

OK, your actions throughout this game are making less and less sense from a pro-town perspective, leading me to believe you've been lying about them. Town's actions usually follow a simple consistency: "X was scummy d1 so I investigated them. I got a guilty so im forcing a claim." Your actions don't seem the least bit consistent.

I am not saying I didnt target you, I did, and if you want I can relay what it was the first day. But, what I am saying is that, YOU WOULD BE DEAD RIGHT NOW if I were scum! Would you like me to tell you who you targetted so that you know I am a tracker? Or are you scum?

[kilmenator]

MBL- Sorry, got a little emotional and didnt finish the post, as I said before, D1 I did find you scummy, but when you defended yourself as you did, then I assumed that you were not scum I assumed you were another role of importance. I was forcing a claim because I wanted to see if you would claim vanilla or not, but you didnt, so I let you off the hook.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Activity seems to be good, so no prods are needed

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While everyone in the center of the town keeps discussing who should be lynched, Autoload suddenly drops dead onto the ground...

Everyone starts to think, "Oh no! Not again..."

Immediately everyone looked around to see who might have done this, but to everyone's chagrin again, no trace of the killer could be found...

However, after Autoload was fully identified, the town breathes a sigh of relief...

Autoload (replaces Colonel Kurtz (replaces Ozymandius on Day 2) on Day 2), protown unlynchable townie turned mafia goon, killed Day 3

You are the Unlynchable Townie. You have immunity from lynches, so if you are lynched, the lynch will fail and night will proceed.

You are a Mafia Goon. You have no special abilities.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

So now with only 7 people alive, it will take only 4 to lynch!

[Adele]

lol. Vampire Zebra went bye-bye!

[kilmenator]

awesome! I was right! Now, what abou a role claim?

[MrBuddyLee]

One scum remaining, Shadowlurker has 4 results. Game's essentially over.

I say we play to find scum today, then if we don't nail it down today he hands us our final scum tomorrow. If he's wrong, we lynch him.

Do the math, I'm pretty sure it works.

[geraintm]

Ok, i have no idea what is going on now having seen Auto/Ozy's role...
I thought i did, but i don't...

Yes, I do ask a lot of questions. I'm a firm believer in giving people a chance to explain the things I find suspicious, because what I'm searching for is what motivates their replies. You need to probe to find scum.
You say I'm asking others their opinion too much, though?! Please, give me some examples.

And my going after Klebian was poor? Well you had plenty of chance to say that yesterday, y'know, instead of saying you agreed with the arguments against him and voting him.

Your post 68 on the 16th

Vote: klebian

He's scum.

and you never let up on him from then on, even when you say you are backing off of him, you later find cause on about the 9th to keep on at him. In hindsight, it didn't look good to me when i reread your posts. and when looking at only certain people's behaviour, you vs klebian yesterday made me kinda go hmm...

And examples of you asking people's opinions...

What do you think about Friday's hyper-defensiveness?

Friday-13th, I want to know who you suspect and why.

You say you don't know who to vote out of him, Friday or Patrick.
Why those other two?

I too was happy with Killmenator's reply, except for one thing: You didn't vote anyone after going back and re-reading all the players. Why didn't you vote anybody after all that work?

Go on then, explain how.

So Ozymandius, you didn't want to explain that weird post you made before you came back?

I would also like to know why you think MBL is scummy.

I'm still waiting for klebian's analysis, but I am just as keen for something more substantial from Norinel now.

I don't know where i am going with this though anymore. As i said, Auto's death has confused me.

[kilmenator]

being that we have 4 people cleared, and MBL and I are basically cleared, I guess the only person left to vote is

Unvote, Vote:turbo

[Turbovolver]

and you never let up on him from then on, even when you say you are backing off of him, you later find cause on about the 9th to keep on at him. In hindsight, it didn't look good to me when i reread your posts. and when looking at only certain people's behaviour, you vs klebian yesterday made me kinda go hmm...

Yeah, I was wrong. He acted scummy though >.<

And examples of you asking people's opinions...

1.

What do you think about Friday's hyper-defensiveness?

2.

Friday-13th, I want to know who you suspect and why.

3.

You say you don't know who to vote out of him, Friday or Patrick.
Why those other two?

4.

I too was happy with Killmenator's reply, except for one thing: You didn't vote anyone after going back and re-reading all the players. Why didn't you vote anybody after all that work?

5.

Go on then, explain how.

6.

So Ozymandius, you didn't want to explain that weird post you made before you came back?

7.

I would also like to know why you think MBL is scummy.

8.

I'm still waiting for klebian's analysis, but I am just as keen for something more substantial from Norinel now.

1.

OK

2.

Pushing for more from a scummy player.

3.

Asking someone to justify a statement.

4.

Re-reading and not voting is a scum tell. That's an attack phrased as a question, to give kilmenator a chance to respond.

5.

Prodding Ozy for explanation after a possibly scummy slip.

6.

A request for explanation of a post.

7.

Another request for justification.

8.

Asking lurkers to post more.

So not only were hardly any of those "just asking players for opinions," you then go on to say

I don't know where i am going with this though anymore. As i said, Auto's death has confused me.

So you are trying to use the death of another unrelated player as a reason to back down on your poorly formulated attack on me? Greeeat.