Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Zdenek]

Going down the list:

I'm inevitably going to think that Timeater is scum at some point if my one past game with him is any indication of what will happen in this game, but I can live with that.

I suspect that I'll be able to read Hippos.

I've played once with DDD before, he was scum. I looked at the football game he was recently in where he was awesome town. The difference in the styles makes me think he'll be readable.

Dramonic . . . I guess he'll lurk, so I'm starting there.

Vote: Dramonic

[Zdenek]

tierce - nulltown
wyrd - scum
oversoul - nulltown
singer - null
zdenek - nullscum
alchemist - town
magister ludi - null
mathgirl - nullscum

You made a dumb list like this early in RDR where you were scum.
Ever done it as town?

Seems strange (???). Are you trying to switch it up because you are usually very hard to read when you're town? If not, then why? (and why announce it to the world?)

I feel like the answer to this question should be obvious - I was already trying to apply meta to him.

[Zdenek]

What's up with going all overexplainy with your RVS vote?

vote: Zdenek

And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!

My vote wasn't random, but it was somewhat arbitrary.

[Zdenek]

note: #31 was in response to #29.

I feel like the answer to this question should be obvious - I was already trying to apply meta to him.

Not sure what you mean here or what you're implying. Could you unpack this a little?

Actually, I didn't read your post all that carefully. I guess my comment only applies to the "why announce it to the world" part.

[Zdenek]

Quil's recent post is bugging me because "I didn't even realise I'd done it as scum, ever" feels like a lil white lie. And who exactly were the mafia with Ghostlin in Animal Rescue: petsPick? Because I cant seem to find that info. I wanted to check the validity of Quil's claim because of my aforementioned bugging.

You can find a link to the cached pages from the game near the end of the game thread. At least for his first list of reads, he's telling the truth. I didn't check anything else.

[Zdenek]

Quilford, explain your reads on mathgirl in this game and Lewacher in Animal Rescue.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Zdenek
Why vote dramonic because you think he'll lurk. Go.

Because I think the proposing a policy lynch is a reasonable way to start the game, lurking is anti-town and maybe being voted will encourage him to post.

[Zdenek]

If you were going for lurkers, Katsuki is in this game. ._.

I was going for the first person of the player list who I felt like voting for whatever reason.

Or tammy who actually is being slimy

I could go this way. Her criticizing my vote and then sheeping it (which is weird, since it's not as though I think it's on scum) is bad. However, I can't say what I want to say right because of [redacted].

[Zdenek]

Thats an incredibly weak and inept reason to seriously vote someone, Uberninja. Do you honestly think that mispelling a word and blaming it on your phone is a scumtell?

I really think that Ludi is just trying to waste time. First the questions to Alchy and now this.

Quilford, explain your reads on mathgirl in this game and Lewacher in Animal Rescue.

okay so

mathgirl was nullscum because of the phrasing "not very town" (yes, most of the reads in that post were based off very small gut feelings)

and lewarcher in animal rescue (i have no idea why you're asking, i want an explanation) was town in my early reads post in that game because of his comment about llamas (:P) then vi raised good points^TM against him and i went along with that, then his claim made me agonise and i ended up not being on his lynch.

~~

i think tammy is pretty okay for now tbh

Both of them made a bit of a jokey post and you had one down as town and one as scum. I wanted to see why.

Zdenek: Bitter much?

No. Why do you think I'd be bitter?

To people with Meta knowledge:

Do you think it would be possible to list the people who scum likely have to kill. This information might be usefiul at some point.

Oh man, another game of a bunch of backwards words thrown around. The joy of this. Tierce wagon: lol. Tammy wagon: . Saw bitchy and smarmy a lot while skimming. It's the better of the wagons we have for a d1 lynch but I think a golden opportunity will show up in time.

So as a matter of interest, why is your vote still on me?

Going back on principles and helping you all out because fuck it...vote: Tammy

Jesus Christ.

LLD's entrance into the game leave a lot to be desired. She defends Tammy and her attack on UberNinja is weak.

LLD, of all the things to attack in UN's play, I'm surprised you're not mentionning the fact he JUST screamed "TAMMY IS TOWN GAIS" while having a vote sitting on her <_<

UN, you have to either bus or buddy tammy, you can't do both at once that's way too obvious man!

This is a great point, but it's UberNinja, who seems to be a bit of a free spirit.

I think that Ludi's case against Alchemist is hogwash.

Unvote
Vote: Hinduragi

He's mostly just sniping at people and his votes have sucked.

[Zdenek]

I feel that ToastyToast's 273 really exaggerates the possibility of a connection between Tammy, Tierce and UberNinja. H certainly doesn't justify his view of this in that post. I I think that the things that he points out relating Tierce to UN make sense in the context of what Tierce's has has to say about how she's played in past games and how she plans to play in this one. There is almost bound to be some sort of conflict.

Here, everyone knows scum would be more careful about theri posting, especially if UN is scum and did something that bad. Yes, it's possible he's scum. But, given his rep, it's also possible he's just dumb town who fucked up a vote. I'd lean towards town.

I'm pretty sure that I won't be the first to say this, but sometimes scum fuck up because they don't care where their vote is or because they forget the lie they are currently telling. Frankly, I have no idea why you would be leaning town here. To me it seems as though at best you could say that it's null.

Hindu, If I, or Glork, or you, or DDD, or hell almost anyone pulled "gee golly gosh I dont know where my vote is" would you buy it?

That means I'd be voting on the assumpion UN is gambiting. I see the cake, but I can't tell if it's a lie.

Why do you think he'd have to be gambitting? Why don't you think it could have just been a mistake?

(hindu's posts look pretty town right now especially)

I'd love to know how you are getting that from his posts/=.

Zdenek In Post 57 You say you could join my wagon, but you're not. You're voting for Hinduragi because you say he's been sniping from the sidelines and his votes have sucked. What about his votes have sucked worse than mine, which consisted of sheeping and jumping around for no reason? Also, I realize that his Post 278 came after your vote, but do you think it's more or less likely that he's scum after that post? I'd say that the fact that he actually researched my meta and read more than one game of mine, which contain quite a lot of posts, makes him look quite probstown. You're probstown too though.

It should be obvious to you why I am not voting you. Unfortunately, since it involves an ongoing game, I can't make it completely clear to everyone else.

I can say this though. I think that if you are town, you are over emotional, and I can completely grasp why people think your reactions are faked and coming from scum.

Hinduragi's vote on me sucked because it looked like serious vote, but it was for me voting for someone who I anticipated would lurk, and then it stuck around for awhile, while he was commenting on other players for doing things that he seemed to think were legitimately scummy.

The problem with the Nikanor vote is that it was accompanied by no explanation. Additionally, I think that the rationale for Nikanor's UN vote is obvious and while I can fault Nikanor for not explaining his FoS on Alchemist, it's in no way clear to me what that deserved a vote.

I'm not going to be comparing him to you.

I don't think that Hinduragi's 278 says much about his alignment, yet. I sort of agree that putting in effort like that is a little townie, but it's easy to do as scum too.

I actually thought It was quite well put together and encapsulates his play here so far, and a few others do as well. I'd like to know what you disagree with.

Well, lots of people use bugging to mean a little scummy and a lot of players use gut too, but more importantly, he said what was bugging him - that Quilford might have been lying about not remembering that he'd made a list like that as scum, and I agree with Alchemist that Quilford's response was overly-elaborate.

I also don't think that saying that you think someone is being selective about what they are getting involved in is slimey.

I agree that you can't figure out what he thinks about Tammy or Tierce from his posts up to that point though.

I think that Toasty's response to being vague about the connections between Tammy, Tierce and UN is reasonable.

I like Wyrd's vote on Magister Ludi.

Regarding posts 402 - 404, LLD is probably scum.

I like Gammagooey's singersigner vote.

Despite your suspicion of Quilford, you have left your vote on Dramonic. Why was this?

I wasn't suspicious of Quilford. I was curious about what he was thinking.

Why would Quilford do that if he could just blend in with the shadows by making a random vote and no reads list? The initiative is town, Tierce.

For what it's worth, I've seen him do it as scum.

it's pretty widely known that Tierce is very uncomfortable playing scum.

Where does this come from?

Magister Ludi's third party hunting early rings alarm bells.

I think that the Tierce situation will work itself out in time.

As far as ToastyToast goes, I think that his initial post was pretty bad, but that his responses to being called out on it have been fine. However, he's said almost nothing that he hasn't been prompted for. It's definitely lazy, and he's a little scummy.

My top scum reads are Hinduragi, LLD, ML and Singersigner.

Unvote
Vote: Magister Ludi

[Zdenek]

Magister Ludi's third party hunting early rings alarm bells.

I'm really low access for the next couple of days, so I can't reply to much. I skimmed last couple pages. But this is a problem. I'm not sure at all what you're talking about here, and this seems to be the main reason you voted me. I was never third party hunting. The only passing mention I had of third party was that the second win condition could have belonged to a third party scum group, (in response to oversoul's circuitous attack) and that the regular scum win condition would hold for the scum. I seriously don't know why so many people are trying to attack me with this. I can't have been the only one confused about whether or not the second win condition was scum, and I sure as hell would not have been confused If I actually was scum and knew what the hell my win condition was.

And what are you talking about with 'early'? That whole discussion happened around page 20.

It's not the main reason I voted you. I've been bothered with your play since the start of the game. I totally don't buy confusion about the setup as a town-tell.

Early is day one, before we've seen how many night kills there are, and who get's killed.

I feel I am in the right. If you feel I am in the wrong, state why if you can be bothered to read this.

I think you are somewhat right about the interactions, but that some of things you've said exaggerate what Glork has done and when I read over the posts, I my interpretations of the events don't point to him being scum. I definitely don't have a town read on Glork, but I doubt we are lynching him today, and I'm pretty happy to wait to worry about this issue.

@Zdeneck: why is hunting for third parties early scummy?

Well, the simplest is that town's main concern is usually figuring out who is scummy and then getting them lynched. Scum need to figure out who might be SK, because that's someone they might need to NK. I can additionally say that scum often need to find a way to appear busy, and it's a heck of a lot easier on them to appear busy by talking about the setup and hunt for an SK than pushing lynches on townies, or protecting or bussing their buddies. That said, I don't believe that it's a particularly strong tell.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek-
It's pretty obvious. I don't think he's the type of player who would be dumb town that made a mistake.

It's a mistake or it's a gambit. Spyrex is saying it can be a gambit. That's why I'm assuming that viewpoint to explain my thoughts about it.

What changed your mind?

I agree with Oman about GreyICE - his response to being asked who's scum sucked given the circumstances - he'd been directed (after requesting guidance) to few people to look at, but it seems like he decided to only look at ToastyToast.

If that vig is true then I'd be fine with stringing him up looks terrible.

No for flavour reasons.

[Zdenek]

And Zdenek, I don't even know what you're going on about. At all.

You go from dumb town who fucked up a vote:

UN said something that 100% conflicted with his actions. Yes, there's an easy fucking target. If it was a newbie game, I'd expect more people to go "shit, that's weird, let's vote him" but this isn't one of those. Here, everyone knows scum would be more careful about theri posting, especially if UN is scum and did something that bad. Yes, it's possible he's scum. But, given his rep, it's also possible he's just dumb town who fucked up a vote. I'd lean towards town.

to gambit:

Zdenek-
It's pretty obvious. I don't think he's the type of player who would be dumb town that made a mistake.

It's a mistake or it's a gambit. Spyrex is saying it can be a gambit. That's why I'm assuming that viewpoint to explain my thoughts about it.

What changed your mind?

Idk playing it off as a gambit feels weird and unlike you

Why are you playing like this OS

What is this supposed to mean?

You were too eager to jump on an IkeLynch.

So you're voting Oversoul, Hinduragi votes oversoul, alchemist votes oversoul, katsuki votes oversoul, and the scum is Katsuki.

On top of this arbitrary decision, you're attacking a wagon that you are pushing.

I don't know what to make of Hindu's very soft claim. For the time being, I just want to make a note of the fact that it's happened.

What did I miss? Oversoul was the one who fakeclaimed Ike by using Aether. How is he jumping on an Ikelynch? Did someone claim Ike while I blinked?

Nevermind.

Oh that's another one, Oversoul, you could have outed Ike. Screw you.

I agree with th Kats wagon

People I had a problem with? Glork as I already mentioned.

Hindu

Alchemist

Katsuki

They all jumped on and didn't even give me a chance to explain And it was all very opportunistic.

Oh, sure.

Mass OMGUS.

Good luck pushing that one through.

Now you are attacking the Kats wagon, which you are on.

One attacking votes on the wagon he's pushing is one of my favourite scumtells, and Glork just did it twice in succession.

Regfan/Duplicity, do you expect this coming from Glork?

Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.

Levelheaded? After threatening to replace out? Explain.

[Zdenek]

Regfan/Duplicity, do you expect this coming from Glork?

Expect? Probably not. Understand? Yes. He's gotten a lot of shit in his games - being FoS'ed for being alive, being lynched for it to some degree (Scummies Winvitational) so I can understand why he's finding this game un-fun due to it not helped by the fact that the day-kill gimmick really is something that I too despise.
.

Yeah, that explains the comment to Oversoul when he expressed suspicion of Kats, but Glork's Katsuki vote and his explanation for it should be lynch worthy. It makes absolutely no sense.

[Zdenek]

Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.

Levelheaded? After threatening to replace out? Explain.

Hmmm...I'm referring to him being level headed in being able to play the game, read people and address situations. I understand his desire to replace out in this situation and it doesn't mean that he's not level headed because of it. I see his point because I've gotten to the point where I've gotten so upset about something before that I've replaced out or thought about it.

That's not what level headed means.

Is English your first language?

Glork has reached heightened levels of "confirmed town always doc protect always love." So there's that.

Why?
Even after he attacked people in favour of the wagons he was on?

As of now, I can't see how any reasonable person could think that Glork is town. I can understand not wanting to lynch him, but I think that asking people to blindly sheep him is crazy talk.

[Zdenek]

And the insult was for what point exactly? I think he seems like a sensible person. Him having an emotional reaction to a situation doesn't make him not sensible. Sensible people get frustrated too you know.

I meant it as a real question. Being level headed is as not the same as being sensible. Getting frustrated, threatening to replace out, and (if he's town) forgetting where his vote was/who he wanted to lynch and attacking people who were in principle going to help him get it done, absolutely makes him not levelheaded. Being levelheaded implies that he would have remained (at least some what more) composed.

I'd say this was you buddying with Glork, being called out on it, and then trying bullshit your way out of it, but you misused the word "misrepresent" in the two towns game, so I know it's something that you do as town. Hence I was curious about whether English is your first language.

[Zdenek]

As far as where his vote was and all that crap; I didn't really pay too much attention to all the drama from yesterday afternoon. It was a gambit and pointless, so I didn't look at any of that stuff closely. It doesn't change the fact that I think when it comes to his ability to read people and situations, I think he seems like a sensible person.

Now that you're aware of them, what do you think of his votes on Oversoul and Katsuki, and his comment to Oversoul about trying to get the Katsuki wagon through?

[Zdenek]

Does it look bad because he hadn't unvoted Oversoul yet when he voted for Katsuki?

It looks bad because he's voting Katsuki for being too eager to jump on a lynch that he is in support of. The fact that he then gives the reason "to eager to be on an Ikelynch" makes it worse because if that concerned him at all, he wouldn't be voting for Oversoul.

He's calling out Oversoul for mass OMGUSing even though Katsuki is the person that Glork is voting for? I'm not sure where I follow why it's bad to call out someone for having bad reasons for suspecting someone even if you're voting for them and especially when it's en masse and Glork himself is on that list.

The issue here is that Oversoul says that he's suspicious of Katsuki, who Glork is voting, and Glork says, "Good luck pushing that one through." As though he is doesn't support the lynch himself.


---

Vote: GreyIce

[Zdenek]

Mod, and all, I've had a family emergency. I don't want to replace out, but I might have to. For now, V/LA. If it looks like I'm going to unable to be active at all for the next while, I'll let you know within three days.

[Zdenek]

I've skimmed the thread.

I feel like I need to comment on Dramonic, MoI, but I'll need to ISO them first.

I would vote for his replacing in post alone.

GreyICE's comment after that post makes me duddenly feel better about him.

I think that the MoI wagon that sprung up is weird.

I don't really like the Toasty wagon because of who is pushing it. His suspicion of Tierce looks town too. Could someone with meta on Toadty tell me how his play in this gamecompares o his play in others.

Unvote
Vote:Implosion

Sheeping Duplicity.