Calvin & Hobbes Mafia-Game Over!!!

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I just got back from a trip.

This is confusing.

@mlaker: are we allowed to repeal a rule we made to make another rule?

random vote: coolbot

for suggesting that the weirdos from another planet are possibly pro town, perhaps directing attention away from them?

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I like Tripod's reasoning.

therefore, I

unvote coolbot, vote gnome

@shelper: your proposed rule is more like us getting another doc protection, which is probably, as you said, too powerful. Maybe someone should just make another rule that gets people to compose poems about their role under the mirror rule? Or we could use your rule, and include that the doc isnt' allowed to protect that night either? Perhaps that could help.

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however, modargo, your rule has a flaw. we may choose to ignore your rule and follow other rules... it just makes following rules annoying. Perhaps it is a way to prevent any pro-town rules from being put into effect?

unvote: gnome; vote: modargo

I can't think of any rules that can let the scum and or sk slip up like I wanted to... so far tigris's (darn you english major person . I wish i could think like that) rule seems the closest to that, so I'll second that.

*puts on thinking cap*

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I voted for modargo since he doesn't seem to want any rules, while others are just saving their rules. I think rules like Tigris's are good, and therefore rules can be a good weapon for town.

Fat FOS: gnome.

Please explain your standpoint instead of expressing your frustration! it will help the town... and if you explain yourself good, may help you

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Hmmm... that seems to help, gnome. Maybe you should try explaining first next time. I'm leaning towards believing you, although it still seems like a bad idea making a rule in a rush.

@mlaker: according to modargo's rule, no rules are in effect unless we choose to follow them, right?

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looks like gnome was going for a last-ditch shot... but his rule makes sure that the mafia is unight-killable. However, he does have my sympathies, as rules often have loopholes. wheter they are deliberate or not needs to be considered. Untrod Tripod is sorta on my radar, though. we aren't sure if we have vigilantes in this game, at least mlaker didn't say so. I find it kinda suspicious that untrod is taking a postulate to go after gnome. He seems really bent on killing gnome.

however, right now, gnome is still suspicious. therefore,

vote: gnome

.

How he turns out will determine my opinion of tripod.

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ok. that explains things (with untrods big reaction because he was a vig)

unvote gnome

I also think modargo's plan is better. as untrold is pretty much confirmed as nobody else has come out to contradict him.

And I feel that a random doc protection will be better, as that way the mafia has a 50% chance of missing their hit if they target either gnome or tripod, versus a 100% kill on either one if we choose to set the doc choice on one of them.

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Hey... I think coolbot made an important observation on calvin's imagination versus real characeters. under that, god's rule has a smaller margin size (as gnome is more suspicious, so we have a larger chance of catching scum). And with god's latest quote of modargo, I think modargo is very likely an ally of MGIA. And remember Polar Boy's post on how masons are not as important, and therefore may not be as high priority. The mafia could easily go back later to kill gnome, and they also know that if gnome is a role blocker and follows god's plan, they will not be role blocked.

so,

vote: modargo for his subtle protections of MGIA

and I'd also note that modargo was anti-rule before, perhaps trying to draw our attention away from them? But it is important to note that carefully used rules can be beneficial for the town, such as picking out dangerous loopholes like those in MGIA's.

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what else do we have to go on to end the day? I guess we could check on gnome tonight with the plan, and then check modargo later. i just felt that god's post was convincing.

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My reasoning was that gnome was very suspicious, but we could confirm whether he was telling the truth tonight, so there wouldn't be much point in lynching him tonight, when we could lynch him tomorrow. However, at that time, modargo was protecting gnome, in several instances that God had pointed out. So, my reasoning was this:
1. we have 1 suspicious person with 1 suspicious person protecting him. 2. we can confirm the first suspicious person. Since we did not have much else to go on, why not go for the suspicious helper? especially when we have plans to check on the suspicious person. If we were checking on modargo, I would not have voted for him.

sorry... g2g sleep. tomorrow's school again. eck.

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Oh yeah, I was just thinking about modargo. If gnome indeed

is

a mason, then modargo's protection of him won't be scum behavior, as it might bey well mean that modargo is the other mason.

so,

unvote: modargo

and @ korais: I think the plan is good, since it coordinates our pro-town resources for a pro-town task instead of somewhat random, individual choices on the part of the people with roles.

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unvote: modargo

sorry, bolded wrong.

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the only reason I can think of a no lynch is if:

1. there are a lot of players, and the game started with no night at all.
2. a fellow mafia member has been suspected of (because for mafia, I think lynching townies is good and lynching mafia is bad )
3. can't think of anymore

If anyone has anything else to add...
as of now, korais, you're proposition indeed is not beneficial to the town. therefore,

vote: korais

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*doesn't welcome Polarboy, just be be mean*

I'm just as stumped as the rest of us. I guess I'll

vote: no lynch

for now, although I doubt it'll actually happen.

PB: Well, for one, CoolBot has stated reasons. For myself, I just found korais' above post suspisious. It wasn't the advocation of the no lynch, it was the feigning of indecision. I feel like the "Well, I really don't know what to do...let me struggle with it a bit out loud and then offhandedly suggest no lynch" was a pretty good scum indication.

I agree that Clone revelation would probably either be best case unhelpful and worst case, disastrous.

Cam

what do you refer to by the calvin clone revelation? because:

Mmm. Good point. Okay, then.

I am a vanilla calvin clone. I have no night abilities.

Cam

you changed your mind really fast after reading polar boy's post, at least the way I'm reading it. so I'd like some clarification, cause that would change my train of thought.

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I understand now.

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God: is your vote supposed to be random? or do you think that cam is scum taking this chance to roleclaim a townie?

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More or less, yes. I barely have anything to go on, and it is day one.
Also since the one I did find suspicious is to be dealt with tonight.

ummmm... were you saying yes to that it's more or less random?

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I must say that I disgree with you, UT. but regardless, I believe that the doc (whoever it may be) wil probably guard you tonight regardless. and I guess that means we just know that if either you or gnome is dead in the morning that God should come under the gun.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I believe the main proponent behind God's plan was that gnome would die if he was lying. Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think God is scum, because he random voted for cam, who is likely to be a vanilla calvin clone, which was not that many posts away (well... a page) from when God voted.

FOS: God

And frankly, I'm starting to believe that modargo is pro-town. He sure got the inactives talking. good for the town. And gnome seems to be innocent, too mainly because he agreed to God's plan even though it puts himself at more risk, but provides more concrete information.

On coolbot vs breakdown, I'm a bit torn between them, mainly because the anti-coolbot theory uses some misrepresnted facts while coolbot's theory against breakdown (with the gnome thing) is not consistent.

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I was hoping that it'd be really obvious to people that I've played with before that that wasn't my posting style at all and that they'd look at that. Yeah, I did that early so that in a case such as this I would have an early indictation. I've made indications after that, but you can find those yourselves.

God makes a good point about not protecting Gnome, if he is lying, then how would we know if a doc protects him?
Let's have a doc protect me and Gnome can see if his role-blocking skills are true.
And hell, if any cops want to get on this (don't reveal yourselves now), I'm all for it.

Ummm... here you mentioned about not protecting gnome, then now you're saying that no doc protection on gnome means mafia will definitely kill him, so we should protect gnome.


And a while back you said:

I still think I should target Gnome tonight, to answer Coolbot's question.

I know that's a bit out of place, but it shows a big change of view on this plan, as shown in your most recent post:

Let me say it one more time. If we give him doc protection his ability is NOT CONFIRMED. Good idea though, having a plan that in effect, at optimal results, DOES NOTHING.

True, but a cop could always check him tonight instead of wasting my nightkill and Gnome's roleblock.
GOD IS SCUM! LYNCH THE BASTARD!

I know throughout the whole planning you've been hinting on the cop thing, it just strikes me that before you were about 50/50 on the plan, and now explosively/suddenly (I'm not sure, you could have been feeling this earlier already) against it, not to mention that your recent posts makes it look like you believe gnome to be a confirmed townie (I think he probably is, but I'm not 100% sure). I've also been thinking... you're asking the cops to come out to confirm you and gnome, but that exposes more important roles for the scum to pick on.
Of course this could also mean that you have more information, as earlier, you kept on stressing there being a vig, and are now stressing a roleblocking mafia.

I'm just completely confused. what exactly do you plan on doing tonight? Because right now it looks like tonight will be up to the person with the ability, seeing as you are against the plan now. Just curious.

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I personally doubt the existence of a mafia roleblocker, but whatever. Seems like "Of all the games played here on mafiascum, less than 2% have had mafia roleblockers. Therefore, it is very likely that we do not have a mafia roleblocker in this game. Therefore, we can assume our plan will not be stopped by a mafia roleblocker." is a valid inductive argument. I could say more, but in the interests of this post not degenerating into sarcasm, I will stop there.

Continuing, I note that there have been proposals to have our cops focus on UT and Gnome. This is a very bad idea. We do not want all of our metaphorical eggs in one baskets. So to the cops, I say this: Investigate who you believe to be suspicious. Let your intuition guide you.

I simply feel that it is not a good thing to attempt to dictate cops' choices so early in the game. The town is better served by cops seeing different people, whoever they think is suspicious. With that, there is a better chance of getting at least some information, instead of having a whole night of investigations wasted if the person all the cops investigate turns out to be, what do you know, innocent.

That's all for now.

That was exactly what I was thinking. bringing out the cops this early would be bad, unless UT has some more points to clear up or information to bring up.

Coolbot's warp of hobbes seems possible, but I'm not exactly the biggest calvin and hobbes reader

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Hmmm... a coherent argument against God. It's much more believable than when it came from UT's apparent sudden rage/explosion (no offense UT, just that it's much easier to read and think out a calm post, and also did it without assuming possible roles).

I still wonder though...

Anyway, I'm split on this, as UT still hasn't answered my question. why did he realize this just now, and used mafia roleblockers in his initial argument? And also, why hint on cops the entire way,

even before

posting he was against the plan, with the flaws?

As for god, I'd like an explanation, too. Scalebane has brought out lots of good points, especially the teacher/alien/parent thing.

I am leaning against god as he has more solid arguments against him, while UT has erratic behavior, plus those 2 questions above.

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EnPace, just because an arguement is coherent doesn't mean it's sound. Broadcasting the docs choice in this case was a good thing, else we'd probably lose our vig.

And I don't see why Mom & Dad can't be anti-town. Just because we only had two kills day 1 doesn't mean another one wasn't blocked, after all. Two mafia groups of two and a SK doesn't seem like that many in a town of 20, IMO.

Dang. your post just made me reread

and

also too many of you posted in between. I type to slow.

Anyway, you have a point. On the God thing, there's more than one way to view something, such as hidden motives behind the plan, which brings up another good point:

modargo's plan, though less potential of killing someone, still tied the doc up on either UT or gnome, with the possibility that UT could still die. Otherwise, the mafia could still get a free pick on someone else. Also, after rereading, UT was asking for doc protection, which he now says is bad? Both of them wanted to tie up the doc, too.


Darn. rereading a bit changed my mind. And god also explained the scum role count thing. I'm suspicious of the anti-God party, when the opposite party/plan (modargo's, and UT was the first to go out with it) asked for things that were ultimately the same as what God did. Although I think the two sides were pivoting on their original view of gnome's roleclaim. And I sided with the gnome is suspicious side. so... back to the drawing board.

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sorry for the vacillation ... rereading cleared things up for me. and now I'm absolutely lost because the two sides (God-UT) are pretty much using the same thing, so now I'm going back to evaluate the coolbot/breakdown thing. Although UT still hasn't answered.

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actually, coolbot, I'm leaning towards agreeing with you on most of the issues in the game (such as argument against god being weak). but it strikes me as odd that both you and god have went after mathcam...

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Vote: God

the reasoning for this is when on page 6, God kept coming up with plans that we knew were endangering a probable townie role that we were trying to confirm, and then he tried to target Modargo, which is stupid because onf the same reason, if the mafia know who's being targetted, then they will kill him. also,

fos:zoneace

for being so close with modargo
(havent finished readthrough just yet, but if any of theis is stated in pages 7-17, it would be great if you told me.)

I don't recall God wanting to have hobbes target modargo... and remember, at that time I don't think we knew that there were vanilla townie roles. Either that, or I forgot since this game has dragged on so long. so if this is not the case, tell me.

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I'd like to point out that it might be useful to see where a replacement goes with his allegiances, as he is pretty much fresh, but if he is in a 'group' (mason or mafia), he'd probably go that way.

right now, I don't really want to vote for bigbenwd, as he hasn't finished reading, and the arguments he makes have been made and replied to alreaedy. so I'll let him wait. although it is interesting, as by doing what bigbenwd has done, it's sorta like he's playing along the game since the beginning, with no other info.

just some thoughts

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I'd think moe was the sk. well, there was no tea-poisoning on day 1, so maybe werebear was a vig-type?

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seems like the best thing to do, and we have many votes before tigris gets lynched,

vote: tigris

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even though that UT most likely is the vig? just becuse he made one choice that was questionable in your eyes?

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that comment bothers me a bit, bigbenwd... wouldn't it be more helpful to get a replacement instead of lynching inactives? as breakdown said, there's around 2 kills each night right now.

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that's a weak argument for saying that calvin clones are bad though, as several calvin clones have died, and I seriously doubt they were all scum

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the... game... has... died...

vote: bigbenwd

keeping things going. ben kept on trying to make calvin clones look bad... if everyone (but scum and the sk) were in this 'cult', what's the diff. from townie?

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holy. gnome's new avatar reminded me of stewie's. I didn't notice until I did a thread search

anywho, I have no idea what to make of gnome's post. if they were really partners, wouldn't they want to keep each other alive? I mean someone could inspect them, right? in all, gnome's post was very disturbing.

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argoti: maybe I'm being dumb because I haven't been able to keep up with things, but how did you come to the conclusion that all mafia are dead?

and zone: a random vote:

and I won't be back until after may 10th since I'm doing a last minute crunch for the AP BIO test I'm taking on may 10th. thx.

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I'm back.

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hmmmm... I think we should get leonidas talking, too. And we don't have much else, or my memory has been bashed and mixed up from the time that has passed since previous discussion.

vote: leonidas

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backsor. and I'd say that breakdown was killed by hobbes, too, not another alien. Looks like there's only one more scum. I g2g for now, so I won't be able to post too much right now. All I can say is that the nameclaim is a good idea as it shouldn't hurt town at all (or at least in any way that I can see). g2g

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yay! I have time now.

explanations: I haven't really been following this game recently. and I only read the most recent 3

I'm Rosalyn. I have protection from "juniors", which I would assume to be hobbes and moe.

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Wow! my first 3-player

Unfortunately it doesn't require much thinking, as I'm pretty sure we can all say that Fuldu is pro-town and is Hobbes. And then I know that I'm Rosalyn, and pro-town. (Nothing in my role mentions anything about beating people up, which is Moe's job anyway). So the only choice left is Argoti.

vote: Argoti

although I'm not surprised by Argoti's vote for me. That's all he can do as I mentioned before, Fuldu is hobbes.

For more concrete stuff:

Be assured, if I live through the night, I will vote EPR

that seems like a reasonable set-up for the SK to use to sound innocent, as he/she is in full control of who dies as the last person standing, which could pretty much be assured with an obscure role claim like Polar Boy's (which was Uncle Max).

In the end, though, this is going to be determined by Fuldu, who has recently read the whole game, and therefore has a fresher memory of what happened in the game. Maybe he can dig more stuff out...

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that was a pretty good game. at least I got a draw on my great luck that fuldu voted for argoti.

I'd just like to say that just about all my night kills were random. I also got lucky when I killed breakdown (cop)

thanks for the game mlaker!