Calvin & Hobbes Mafia-Game Over!!!

[Untrod Tripod]

Yep, anti town people are all for lynching mafia!
Wait....

[God]

For the last time UT,

I AM NOT MAFIA

. So stop stating it as if it were fact. I think you're town, but since you're probably the most annoying pro-town ever, I would really like to see you lynched.

But I'm not going to vote for you, because as I said, I believe you are pro-town, and we kinda wanna keep our townies alive.

[CoolBot]

UT, present a case for God's scumminess. I'd like to see it, because I don't really think you have one.

Gnome, give me a break. I never said the teachers weren't scum. But you may note we have at least two killing groups. I'm just trying to figure out what the other one might be. Right now, Mom & Dad are looking pretty likely. Your white washing of the second killer isn't exactly filling me with confidence about you.

Zone, for all of UT's recent nuttiness, he's most likely not scum.

[modargo]

Coolbot: So, which kill do you think was Mom and Dad? The penciling, or the beating up? Neither makes any sense as the kill for a Mom and Dad mafia group. I could see putting to bed, or kicking out of the house, or exiling to the basement or any number of things, but penciling or beating up? No.

The teachers are one mafia group. That's obvious, and it's also pretty obvious (from the kill description) that they did the penciling. So the other killer beats people up. As has been noted before, that suggests Moe. It could be something else, but Moe is the most likely.

The UT-God argument is pointless. UT can just be ignored. I'm reasonably sure he's protown, and I've seen him act this horribly in other similar situations, so I'm perfectly content to just take any input he offers with a grain of salt.

I haven't seen anything in the past few pages that would make me want to unvote Coolbot.

[Untrod Tripod]

Yeah, I'm obviously a deranged lunatic....

God: Roleclaim, and I might believe you.

[ZONEACE]

Yeah, I'm obviously a deranged lunatic....

It is starting to look that way. you have become totally irrational and quick with the accusations with no proof.

[Scalebane]

What I think is so terribly funny about this situation is that if UT were a better known player, God would already be lynched by now. But the fact of the matter is that UT is not. On the other hand, I firmly agree with UT that God is mafia. And the burden of proof is on the accuser. so I guess I shall simply have to make my case.

1st relevant post.

What?

Why do we need Hobbes to be confirmed? This is a Calvin and Hobbes Mafia game, he is obviously in the game, and there is no scenario i can see that Hobbes would possibly be anti-town...

Mom and Dad however, I could see being a small mafia group, maybe with a non-kill related win condition. (ie. find calvin and meet with his teachers or something)

If they are indeed role-blockers I think that a variation of modargo's plan should be attempted.

UT targets Gnome for a kill
Gnome targets UT for a block

If Gnome was lying, well he's dead and we dont need to worry about him.
Otherwise, Gnome is a confirmed role-blocker.

Docs, however if this plan is to work, should definetly NOT target either of the two. Well, Maybe target UT, Is anybody aware whether or not a doc protection stops role-block attempts?

This indicates several things to me.
1. He strongly believes that UT is Hobbes and is pro-town.
2. He doesn't know the town win condition, or at least not really. I simply can't see how someone who doesn't recognize that the teachers are aliens and that the whole point of this game is to try to get rid of them could possibly claim to be pro-town. sorry.
3. This is the first time his quite important "plan" shows up. It is, to summarizes this.
UT tries to kill Gnome.
Gnome tries to block UT.
Therefore, Gnome = dead, scum and lying.
Gnome = alive, roleblocker like he claims to be.

ON a side note, at the end of this post, he seems to indicate that he would like a doc to target UT, something that seems like it would be unnecessary and would lead to the waste of a doc protect. This is not so. His logic is sound. If UT were to die tonight, then Gnome would be unconfirmed and probably lynched as it would look like he had killed UT somehow. That would only be good for the mafia. Although, for some reason, I don't think God reasoned that out and simply wanted the doc to waste his protection.

2nd important post.

Going by modargo's latest plan, let's see if i understood correctly.
Gnome blocks tripod.
tripod shoots random player.

Umm, why endanger a random player with a vig kill if Gnome is lying, this is basically allowing Gnome to be a serial killer.

If Tripod eats Gnome and Gnome successfully blocks tripod, they'll both be safe, and confirmed since neither will die. We can also put a doc on tripod, but not Gnome because then we wouldnt know if Gnome's block worked or if it was just the doc protection.

Why put the rest of the town at more risk when we could simply allow for:
If Gnome isnt a role-blocker, as he said, he dies.

If UT targets Gnome, how can know the difference between Gnome not dying because UT was roleblocked and Gnome not dying because a doctor who believed him protected him? Yes, there's a chance that UT will be specifically told that he was roleblocked; but there's also a chance that he won't be told, and there's no need to take that risk.

Exactly why we're telling the doctors to NOT TARGET GNOME. I think modargo is most definetly pro-town with the amount of effort he's putting into this.

From what I can see there are two possible ways my plan can go wrong:
But neither of them should ever happen.
-Gnome is telling the truth and gets blocked himself. This should not happen since role-blockers are almost certainly pro-town

-Gnome is lying, and a very stupid doctor protects him, the town then believes he is confirmed. Also should not happen since doctors are usually pro-town and not-retarded.

Anyone see any flaws?

1. His response to shelper isn't quite correct. And the mafia would have something to gain from that plan. They would now have the correct identities of two fairly important abilities. And, Mafia would gain a free kill tonight as doc block would be on UT.

2. A couple of very disturbing things that he puts into this post. The first is the bit where he implies that by putting effort into a game you are pro-town. This is quite simply not the case. He also states that Doc's are usually "not retarded" and the same is implied for role blockers. In a game with random distribution of roles, how does he have any idea of the skill level or thought process in a game this size? he doesn't have a clue and is simply using craplogic to defend his case.

3rd important post.

A few things...

the thing is that if i find out someone is an alien i will vote for them because my role tells me that they are who i should be getting rid of. so if someone is outed as an alien i will do my best to lynch them

What the hell are you doing? Revealing that you're a cop out of the blue with no pressure on you? If we had some way to coordinate our docs I would hope one of them would protect UT and the other protect our claimed alien finder. Also, now that you are outed, who did you check last night?

YOU BECOME HOBBES FOOD!

Sorry UT, didn't quite notice that but I knew you were Hobbes, Vig as soon as the above quote showed up

God: Your plan allows for the mafia to kill Gnome, a claimed mason who is probably telling the truth, without worrying about doc protection.

Exactly my point, he is a CLAIMED mason, he has not been confirmed.

But seriously, with God's plan, I'm dead no matter what. But, maybe, that's what he wants.

No, you're dead if you are lying, or if the mafia feel like killing you, but you are forgetting about your earlier suspiciousness and the fact that you are not yet confirmed. In my mind it's better to risk an unconfirmed suspicious mason/blocker then a town full of unknown cops and doctors. Besides, even if you die and are revealed to be innnocent, your supposed better half can take over and become a lone role-blocker without being revealed. They also then have a claimable proved innocent role.

1. This post is absolutely worthless junk. First off, he overreacts and misreads ZONEACE's post. I also think it funny that he overreacts so much to zoneace's declaring that we are hunting aliens. Good job, God, you win the legolas prize.

2. He states that it is better to risk gnome than a town full of unknowns, but he is being a hippocrite. With his plan, a doc protects UT. can you say "good for the mafia"? They would love to know who the doc will protect ahead of time and that is what God keeps insisting. Also, he says that he really doesn't have a problem sacrificing Gnome for any reason. That way, his other half has a confirmed RC. and a confirmed death from the mafia.

The rest pretty much continues the same. I'll explain more of my logic after God responds.
[/quote]

[God]

Okay, in response to Scalebane's monster of a post.

I simply can't see how someone who doesn't recognize that the teachers are aliens and that the whole point of this game is to try to get rid of them could possibly claim to be pro-town. sorry

I have played in games where though not explicitly stated, seperate anti-town groups have been present. (Blind FF3-Two of the main characters in the game turned out to be a seperate non-kill related mafia) So I don't follow strictly what I read anymore and am open to many other possibilities. Also, if the whole point of the game is to rid the town of the teachers, then why would there be a seperate non-alien Serial Killer.

If UT were to die tonight, then Gnome would be unconfirmed and probably lynched as it would look like he had killed UT somehow. That would only be good for the mafia. Although, for some reason, I don't think God reasoned that out and simply wanted the doc to waste his protection.

At first I was unsure whether a doc protect also protects against role-blockers, as noted in my post. Though, you are right, I should have stated that the doc flip a coin as whether or not to protect UT, rather than flat out letting the mafia know where the protect is going.

The first is the bit where he implies that by putting effort into a game you are pro-town.

I was merely stating that mafia usually try not to be as open during the games as Modargo was being, as we all know, posting alot means making alot of mistakes, mistakes that could get you lynched. So scum usually try to stay under the radar, this is why I feel modargo is pro-town.

First off, he overreacts and misreads ZONEACE's post. I also think it funny that he overreacts so much to zoneace's declaring that we are hunting aliens. Good job, God, you win the legolas prize.

You're right, I misread his post. I read it and I thought it meant that he had extra information involving the finding of aliens (ie. Cop) and was appauled at how he had announced it. What is the Legolas prize anyway?

And to summarize, It is not that if UT was a better known player I would've been lynched by now (hell he even has more posts than me) , it is that he is posting useless sarcastic comments and throwing baseless accusations.

[CoolBot]

Fact is, Scalebane, the appearance of a doc protecting UT is in the town's interest. If the mafia don't believe a doc will protect UT, they will target him, and the town loses it vig. Trying to make sure the town doesn't lose it's vig is not scum.

There are probably four to six scummy roles in the game, which means somewhere between 20% and 30% of the town are scum. Another 30% are probably clones. That means scum have a pretty good chance of not hitting a critical pro-town role at night

if

they don't know who has what role.

Of course, they do know UT is a vig, and the town is as certain of it as it possibly can be. So guess what? The mafia will target the vig, and the town loses. So, we want to broadcast to the mafia that the vig is protected. Is it really that hard to understand?

Frankly, your cavaliar attitude towards UT's fate surprises me. Do

you

think he's a SK?

2. He doesn't know the town win condition, or at least not really. I simply can't see how someone who doesn't recognize that the teachers are aliens and that the whole point of this game is to try to get rid of them could possibly claim to be pro-town. sorry.

You're going to have to explain this a little clearer. Nothing in the post you quoted indicates he doesn't know the town win condition. In my role PM, there certainly wasn't anything indicating teachers=aliens.

God has been overreacting badly, but I can't really blame him considering the way UT has been harping on him.

[ZONEACE]

You're going to have to explain this a little clearer. Nothing in the post you quoted indicates he doesn't know the town win condition. In my role PM, there certainly wasn't anything indicating teachers=aliens.

Um the question is are you a calvin clone?

[EnPaceRequiescat]

Hmmm... a coherent argument against God. It's much more believable than when it came from UT's apparent sudden rage/explosion (no offense UT, just that it's much easier to read and think out a calm post, and also did it without assuming possible roles).

I still wonder though...

Anyway, I'm split on this, as UT still hasn't answered my question. why did he realize this just now, and used mafia roleblockers in his initial argument? And also, why hint on cops the entire way,

even before

posting he was against the plan, with the flaws?

As for god, I'd like an explanation, too. Scalebane has brought out lots of good points, especially the teacher/alien/parent thing.

I am leaning against god as he has more solid arguments against him, while UT has erratic behavior, plus those 2 questions above.

[CoolBot]

You're going to have to explain this a little clearer. Nothing in the post you quoted indicates he doesn't know the town win condition. In my role PM, there certainly wasn't anything indicating teachers=aliens.

Um the question is are you a calvin clone?

I thought the question on my clone-hood was answered a long time ago when I asked mathcam about the clone PM re: teachers & aliens.

No, I am not a clone.

[ZONEACE]

Thats why your PM didnt have that Info. It was only in the Calvin Clone PMs apparently. WHy that is im not sure, but all of the Calvin Clone PMs indicate teh teachers are aliens and that we need ot get rid of them.

[CoolBot]

EnPace, just because an arguement is coherent doesn't mean it's sound. Broadcasting the docs choice in this case was a good thing, else we'd probably lose our vig.

And I don't see why Mom & Dad can't be anti-town. Just because we only had two kills day 1 doesn't mean another one wasn't blocked, after all. Two mafia groups of two and a SK doesn't seem like that many in a town of 20, IMO.

[EnPaceRequiescat]

EnPace, just because an arguement is coherent doesn't mean it's sound. Broadcasting the docs choice in this case was a good thing, else we'd probably lose our vig.

And I don't see why Mom & Dad can't be anti-town. Just because we only had two kills day 1 doesn't mean another one wasn't blocked, after all. Two mafia groups of two and a SK doesn't seem like that many in a town of 20, IMO.

Dang. your post just made me reread

and

also too many of you posted in between. I type to slow.

Anyway, you have a point. On the God thing, there's more than one way to view something, such as hidden motives behind the plan, which brings up another good point:

modargo's plan, though less potential of killing someone, still tied the doc up on either UT or gnome, with the possibility that UT could still die. Otherwise, the mafia could still get a free pick on someone else. Also, after rereading, UT was asking for doc protection, which he now says is bad? Both of them wanted to tie up the doc, too.


Darn. rereading a bit changed my mind. And god also explained the scum role count thing. I'm suspicious of the anti-God party, when the opposite party/plan (modargo's, and UT was the first to go out with it) asked for things that were ultimately the same as what God did. Although I think the two sides were pivoting on their original view of gnome's roleclaim. And I sided with the gnome is suspicious side. so... back to the drawing board.

[Scalebane]

I apologize if my case against god made points against behaviors that were displayed against other parties as well. I shall go re-read a few things.

Sadly for the town, I think that the anti-god party and the pro-god party really have about the same case against each other. really quite an odd situation.

Oh, and the Legolas prize. Have you seen RoTK? The scene in which they are standing around talking about attacking Mordor? When they get almost through with their plans, Legolas has quite the sudden eipiphany, sudeenyl understands a few things and exclaims "A diversion!" Yeah, that has nothing whatsoever to do with what you did in that post. Not quite sure why I put that in there.

[God]

(OT)Nah I haven't seen RotK yet, i should've when it was in theatres. Damn (/OT)

Anyway, I'm split on this, as UT still hasn't answered my question. why did he realize this just now, and used mafia roleblockers in his initial argument? And also, why hint on cops the entire way, even before posting he was against the plan, with the flaws?

I was confused about this too, you suddenly come to the conclusion that there are mafia role-blockers, Is there something you aren't sharing with us UT? Extra-information perhaps, because if you want the town to ever be able to coordinate night choice plans, you better let us know if you know there are anti-town roleblockers out there, or if it's just a hunch.

[modargo]

Still keeping my vote on Coolbot, still think the God-UT argument is stupid, still wish more than half of the players were posting.

Heck, I'm even still suspicious of EPR. Especially with his recent vacillation.

[EnPaceRequiescat]

sorry for the vacillation ... rereading cleared things up for me. and now I'm absolutely lost because the two sides (God-UT) are pretty much using the same thing, so now I'm going back to evaluate the coolbot/breakdown thing. Although UT still hasn't answered.

[modargo]

[Earnest Salesperson]: Confused by gigantic posts? Puzzled by invalid arguments? Scratching your head over what in the world they're thinking? Tired by argument between two people you think are innocent? If so, I have the ***~perfect solution~*** for you!

[Voiceover]: It's worked for five people. It can work for you. Voting Coolbot. A new solution for an old day.

[Fade to "Vote Coolbot today!"]

[Fade to black]

Don't mind me, I just have too much time on my hands .

[PolarBoy]

I don't see CoolBot doing anything anti-town. Quite frankly I see the logic behind putting a doc protect on the vigilante. Admittedly I don't think the vig is all that valuable, protecting the vig makes it fairly likely that a plain townie will die, which is a near ideal situation.

Vote: ZONEACE

I just don't see any reason for this bandwagon.

[ZONEACE]

Umm PB then why did you vote for me? Im not voting fort Coolbot. your vote seems a little unfounded to me. If anything, after what you said it seems like you would be voting for someone who is voting for coolbot, instead of someone who isnt voting for coolbot.

FOS PB

for the above reason.

[CoolBot]

Zone is rather unlikely to be mafia, as he was the first to point out the alien-teacher connection.

I think Gnome, Modargo, & Breakdown are the most supsicous in this game. Gnome & Modargo are almost certainly allied, so I think by testing one, we test the other. That, in my mind, leaves Breakdown as the best lynching candidate.

[PolarBoy]

ahhh shoot. I don't know how I did it, but I saw a comment directed at Untrod Tripod(UT) and somehow read it as being against CoolBot(CB). I'll probably create some notes during the copious spare time I'll have tommorow and be able to keep track of this game better.

Untvote: ZONEACE

[Untrod Tripod]

Modargo... that was idiotic....

My vote stays on God (as he is scum)