Calvin & Hobbes Mafia-Game Over!!!

[Untrod Tripod]

Regardless, I want doc protection tonight.
While we're at it, why don't we get a cop to confirm who Gnome and myself are?

[shelper]

Because that would involve outing a cop, and we have enough pro-town roles out in the open as it is. (provided gnome and UT are telling the truth.)

Going by modargo's latest plan, let's see if i understood correctly.
Gnome blocks tripod.
tripod shoots random player.

If a "[player] was mauled by a rabid tiger" message appears, gnome was either lying or was blocked himself.
If it doesn't appear, either gnome was speaking the truth or tripod's target was protected.

Meh... a bit risky, but it could work. Maybe some more ideas will appear come nightfall.

[EnPaceRequiescat]

ok. that explains things (with untrods big reaction because he was a vig)

unvote gnome

I also think modargo's plan is better. as untrold is pretty much confirmed as nobody else has come out to contradict him.

And I feel that a random doc protection will be better, as that way the mafia has a 50% chance of missing their hit if they target either gnome or tripod, versus a 100% kill on either one if we choose to set the doc choice on one of them.

[PolarBoy]

Maybe I missed this class at Scumming 101, but I don't see why Untrod or MGIA should be mafia targets tonight. Now, assuming for a moment that they are telling the truth, the mafia know what they can do. They also know what they can't do. That being investigate or protect. Vigilantes and role-blockers are loose cannons. They can certainly accomplish more than docs or cops, but they can also cause a lot more trouble. Especially since theme games often have few to no townies, it would not be surprising if they went after someone else in hopes of hitting a doc or cop at random(actually better than random now that they know a few who aren't a doc or cop).

Now we lose the postulate about them telling the truth. If they're both lying then they'll probably both be alive tommorow and no one will have been killed by a tiger, how convenient. Just like if they're telling the truth and don't get killed by the mafia, highly likely if they get protected. Actually if they're being targeted by doctors they become very high risk targets as they may be protected, in which case the mafia have just totally confirmed an innocent.

The one way this plan tells us anything is if someone get's vig killed tonight then we can be reasonably certain that UT is telling the truth and MGIA is lying. Actually it would probably be worth it for that.

Vote: Tigris

just an unrelated hunch.

[ZONEACE]

well it looks like gnome is not the evil doer we thought

unvote gnome

however, Modargo is making me a little twitchy. First he just states that UT is Hobbes. umm well had he not said that i would have never figured it out. it is possible that if he hadnt said it that mafia wouldnt have figured it out. So right now im

fos modargo

thats an almost vote. seems supicious thats all for now

[PolarBoy]

Actually ZONEACE it's perfectly logical. The only role that can confirm itself independantly is really the vigilante, so the only way a role blocker can confirm is by way of a vig. Guessing Hobbes was something of a leap though. Anyway if what you're saying is true he could just keep quiet about it and kill Hobbes tonight. Seeing as if he is scum, then scum already figured it out.

[PolarBoy]

Oh yeah I was just thinking, if you want to see an example of how targeting a protected townie can be deadly for the mafia, check out Mini 63 where I was the doc. In that I protected Gaspode on night 1 and NEHI on night 3. That piece of information was instrumental in locating the last scum. Anyway I don't seriously expect them to be targeted tonight.

[ZONEACE]

the only problem is that he might not of been sure and he was looking for a confirm which he got anyway i see that im stretching so forget the fos on modargo im just all confused and flustered.


anyone did we ever come to an agreement on who we think the mafia is i mean wether or not they are the aliens or not. cause if we hzvent i can confirmt hat the aliens are the evil things which we must get rid of. A bit of info that was in my Role PM that i some how missed until now. the teachers have turned into aliens and we need to find them.

just a summary no longer suspicious of Modargo i was confused and stretching to find the guilty and the teachers are aliens that we have to stop.

[PolarBoy]

Ok, a point I'd like to make real quick. Just because there are evil aliens wouldn't necesarily mean that all aliens are evil. I remember a couple of good aliens from the strip, Cosmo and Nebular I think their names were. Anyway they helped Calvin out with a school project and in return were promised control of the earth. At any rate they really weren't bad guys. In fact they were pretty trusting. They believed Calvin's claim of being Supreme Potentate of Earth.

What I'm getting at hear is that if someone out there can discover that a player is an alien, it might be a subgroup thing. See Texas Mafia(Captain Blicero) and Robots Among Us(Mini 46, Foolster41) if you'd like an example of subgroups.

[God]

Going by modargo's latest plan, let's see if i understood correctly.
Gnome blocks tripod.
tripod shoots random player.

Umm, why endanger a random player with a vig kill if Gnome is lying, this is basically allowing Gnome to be a serial killer.

If Tripod eats Gnome and Gnome successfully blocks tripod, they'll both be safe, and confirmed since neither will die.

We can also put a doc on tripod, but not Gnome because then we wouldnt know if Gnome's block worked or if it was just the doc protection.

Why put the rest of the town at more risk when we could simply allow for:

If Gnome isnt a role-blocker, as he said,

he dies.

If UT targets Gnome, how can know the difference between Gnome not dying because UT was roleblocked and Gnome not dying because a doctor who believed him protected him? Yes, there's a chance that UT will be specifically told that he was roleblocked; but there's also a chance that he won't be told, and there's no need to take that risk.

Exactly why we're telling the doctors to NOT TARGET GNOME. I think modargo is most definetly pro-town with the amount of effort he's putting into this.

From what I can see there are two possible ways my plan can go wrong:

But neither of them should ever happen.

-

Gnome is telling the truth

and gets blocked himself. This should not happen since role-blockers are almost certainly pro-town

-

Gnome is lying

, and a very stupid doctor protects him, the town then believes he is confirmed. Also should not happen since doctors are usually pro-town and not-retarded.

Anyone see any flaws?

[ZONEACE]

first

god

that sounds good

second

PB

the thing is that if i find out someone is an alien i will vote for them because my role tells me that they are who i should be getting rid of. so if someone is outed as an alien i will do my best to lynch them

[Untrod Tripod]

if anyone missed this the first time you read it...

I wrote:

I

think that Gnome-it-all has made what I hope will be an illegal rule

A

good idea, that is(how ironic)

M

y idea is that when someone makes an impossible rule, they must speak for the rest of the day in song (rhyming) form.

H

owever, two occurances of an illegal rule will limit their posts to six a day.

O

uch; Three occurances of an illegal rule result in the person not being allowed to post all day.

B

anishing is not far from my mind, but hopefully, it won't happen four times, but if it does.... YOU BECOME HOBBES FOOD!

B

etray my rule at your peril!

E

rego, Gnome must speak in song today, if my rule is passed.

S

ome people just never learn...

I was hoping that it'd be really obvious to people that I've played with before that that wasn't my posting style at all and that they'd look at that. Yeah, I did that early so that in a case such as this I would have an early indictation. I've made indications after that, but you can find those yourselves.

God makes a good point about not protecting Gnome, if he is lying, then how would we know if a doc protects him?
Let's have a doc protect me and Gnome can see if his role-blocking skills are true.
And hell, if any cops want to get on this (don't reveal yourselves now), I'm all for it.

[modargo]

I'll repeat myself.

God: Your plan allows for the mafia to kill Gnome, a claimed mason who is probably telling the truth, without worrying about doc protection. I'd certainly consider this a flaw, given that if I were mafia I would leap at the chance to knock off a mason. While having a known innocent or two doesn't matter much

now

, its nearly impossible for the mafia to win if too many survive to the endgame.

Yes, the mafia might get a cop or doc or whatever if they just hit someone random; but why would they pass up a chance to kill someone who is about to be a confirmed innocent when there's no risk of the kill failing becaue no doctors are going to protect Gnome?

[ZONEACE]

Ok obviously i havent played with you UT enough to have picked up on that. anyway im stupid and slow (just got done shoveling the snow out of the dive way so im a little tired too). anyway as i said Gods plan rules. lets follow it. In the time between now and when the plan is put to action we need to lynch someone, preferably evil.

I am a little suspicious of the people who wanted to protect MGIA as i am still a little suspicious of him. This could be his mafia pals hoping to make him look innocent and such. However it could be me being confused and stretching again. Either way

fos MGIA modargo and EnPace

go town

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Yes, the mafia might get a cop or doc or whatever if they just hit someone random; but why would they pass up a chance to kill someone who is about to be a confirmed innocent when there's no risk of the kill failing becaue no doctors are going to protect Gnome?

Or they could even knock off the Serial Killer

But seriously, with God's plan, I'm dead no matter what. But, maybe, that's what he wants.

And, Zone, do you really think if modargo and EPR were mafia buddies of mine they'd be sticking together? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't mafia usually try to disassociate themselves from each other in a game?

[God]

A few things...

the thing is that if i find out someone is an alien i will vote for them because my role tells me that they are who i should be getting rid of. so if someone is outed as an alien i will do my best to lynch them

What the hell are you doing? Revealing that you're a cop out of the blue with no pressure on you? If we had some way to coordinate our docs I would hope one of them would protect UT and the other protect our claimed alien finder. Also, now that you are outed, who did you check last night?

YOU BECOME HOBBES FOOD!

Sorry UT, didn't quite notice that but I knew you were Hobbes, Vig as soon as the above quote showed up

God: Your plan allows for the mafia to kill Gnome, a claimed mason who is probably telling the truth, without worrying about doc protection.

Exactly my point, he is a

CLAIMED

mason, he has not been confirmed.

But seriously, with God's plan, I'm dead no matter what. But, maybe, that's what he wants.

No, you're dead if you are lying, or if the mafia feel like killing you, but you are forgetting about your earlier suspiciousness and the fact that you are not yet confirmed. In my mind it's better to risk an unconfirmed suspicious mason/blocker then a town full of unknown cops and doctors. Besides, even if you die and are revealed to be innnocent, your supposed better half can take over and become a lone role-blocker without being revealed. They also then have a claimable proved innocent role.

[modargo]

I think the disagreement comes down to how I prefer for confirmed innocents to survive, while God doesn't mind the mafia killing them.

[God]

confirmed? Why don't you just show me where he is confirmed?
Why couldn't Calvin's Mom and Dad be scum?

[CoolBot]

[quote="God"What the hell are you doing? Revealing that you're a cop out of the blue with no pressure on you? If we had some way to coordinate our docs I would hope one of them would protect UT and the other protect our claimed alien finder. Also, now that you are outed, who did you check last night? [/quote]
I'm note so sure Zone is claiming cop, just a role that knows about aliens. Nothing he said seems to indicate his abilities.

I think the disagreement comes down to how I prefer for confirmed innocents to survive, while God doesn't mind the mafia killing them.

Gnome is not confirmed by any stretch. Right now, the only way he can be confirmed is if Dad comes out, which I think most of us agree isn't a wise thing.

These are the roles that we know (in black) or somone has claimed (in red):

• Spaceman Spiff
  Calvin Clone
  
  Mom
  Hobbes

Further, Zone indicates the teachers have been turned into aliens. Keeping that in mind and looking at the list, a thought occurs. Except for Mom, all the roles have been prodcuts of Calvin's imagination. In the case of Hobbes the doll & the teachers, they have actually been "morphed" into imaginary characters. With this in mind, I think we should put Gnome's claim under some scutiny. Thus, we should have Gnome block UT, and UT target Gnome. Any doc out there should target anyone but Gnome.

[modargo]

First, my comment was much more directed your to apathy at the prospect of Gnome dying, in the scenario in which he's telling the truth.

Second, "Scum? Why don't you just show me where he is proven to be scum?
Why couldn't Calvin's Mom and Dad be protown?"

It's rather obvious that they could be made as either. And that's what we're trying to determine.

My plan keeps them both (Gnome and UT) alive if they're innocent, and allows Gnome to be lynched or vig-killed tomorrow if he's lying. It does mean we lose a random person if Gnome is lying, but I'll gladly make that trade (1 random person [who could be a plain townie, mafia, or the SK] for one anti-town person) all game long.

Your plan allows Gnome to die if they're both innocent, and only kills Gnome a night earlier if he's lying, which is no actual benefit when you consider that if both Mom and Dad are scum, both would need to be killed to stop them.

[Scalebane]

Actually, I see no reason whatsoever to test Gnome's claim. In the mod's post, he clearly indicates that we are hunting aliens. I can see aliens replacing his teachers, but aliens replacing his parents? How silly.

[ZONEACE]

um just to clear some things up

IM NOT CLAIMING COP

in fact i will let you know i am not the cop very much not the cop. i was just letting you know that my ROLE PM contained INFO that i thought would be helpful to the town that the teachers are aliens and the aliens are bad.


just thought id clear that up I AM NOT THE COP

[ZONEACE]

My plan keeps them both (Gnome and UT) alive if they're innocent, and allows Gnome to be lynched or vig-killed tomorrow if he's lying.

It does mean we lose a random person if Gnome is lying, but I'll gladly make that trade (1 random person [who could be a plain townie, mafia, or the SK] for one anti-town person) all game long.

bolded by me


umm or a random person that could be the doc or a cop or some other powerful. Id rather risk a mason than a cop or a doc. ok and personally i still dont trust MGIA so id rather risk MGIA than you myself since i could possibly be that random person.

oooooooooh im having a thought. since i trust neither MGIA or you modargo why dont we have UT target you, modargo, tonight, have the doc protect UT and then if you are still alive we know that MGIA is what he says and if you die then we know to lynch to MGIA are you willing to risk yourself for your plan Modargo? since you seem so willing to risk everyone but MGIA.

[CoolBot]

I can see aliens replacing his teachers, but aliens replacing his parents? How silly.

I can remember a number of times when aliens in the comic strips turned out to be one of the parents, especially Mom. Aliens also were often the teachers or principal. I don't see how we can make a distinction between the two with the information we have at hand.

[God]

"Scum? Why don't you just show me where he is proven to be scum?"

Everyone but myself and the corpses are scum until proven innocent.

My plan keeps them both (Gnome and UT) alive if they're innocent,

Granted. But it also keeps them both alive if they aren't.

and allows Gnome to be lynched or vig-killed tomorrow if he's lying.

How do you suppose we know if he is lying? the doc protect would cancel the kill anyway, if the blockee is not told they have been blocked, then your plan is ruined. Unless you have some extra information about role-blockers in this game then I suggest we stick to my plan.

Your plan

allows Gnome to die if they're both innocent, and only

kills Gnome a night earlier if he's lying

, which is

no actual benefit when you consider that if both Mom and Dad are scum, both would need to be killed to stop them

.

Emphasis mine

How is having scum dead earlier not a benefit in any case?
...Also, would you care to tell me how your plan magically reveals Dad?