The Brave and the Beautiful 2: Fairy Tales ÔÇô Game Over

[Amrun]

VOTE: bv310

Don't flake this time.

P-edit: Oh, crap! You caught me!

[Amrun]

I have a feeling activity wil pick up after goofbash.

I tend to have a relatively high volume of posting, but it tends to be more reactionary. I do analysis, but not in every single post I ever make.

Weekends suck for me.

[Amrun]

A bunch of people, including Fate and ABR, are at Dripping Goofball's place for a big meetup.

[Amrun]

Yay RC is alive!

[Amrun]

My thoughts so far:

-LLD's initial reaction to the ooba-early-scumteam call did not raise any flags for me, though in hindsight, I agree with Iecerint that it does seem more likely to come from a scum perspective. However, with play style, I write this off as null.

-My major issue with LLD: what the fuck is this appeasement shit? This is like night and day with the town LLD I have played with before. LLD, can you provide some scum meta (or just say your wiki is up to date)?

-Kdub is also sketch. While I disagree with SpyreX about the Iecerint V/LA issue because Iece was obviously around and posting, Kdub's posts bother me for a couple of specific reasons I somehow forgot already - I think it was how he attacked Iece, but I'll get up coherent thoughts on this later. Also, I want to note that the Iece vote will look particularly bad if LLD were to flip scum in the future.

-SpyreX, what do you find scummy about ooba? I don't understand.

[Amrun]

Oh, I forgot.

Unvote ; Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

For a fairly drastic departure from her town play, but this is contingent upon further meta investigation which I am too exhausted to do right at this second.

[Amrun]

Since I am posting from my phone, I would appreciate links to those. Also, if you could include an unexemplary example of scum play as well, that would be helpful.

[Amrun]

LL, okay, it's just that the way you phrased it made me think you were saying those games were exemplary in comparison to [ ]? The links you mentioned will be fine.

Kunkstar7, why are you voting for Iecerint? You didn't even mention him in your post.

[Amrun]

Similarities in LL's play in Camden to here:

More appeasement, to both scumbuddies and town.

Less rage than town play, like here.

Uses exact same "attacks Rhetoric instead of intent" defense (may be null if also used as town, though I never saw her use it as town when I played with her).


The lack of rage / faked rage is the thing really sticking in my craw. The post that people take issue with is what I see as LL's towniest post, tbh, but those that follow are making me feel progressively worse about her. I'll continue to compare when more links are provided.

LL, you called Empking (town), bobsnox (town), and tclawren (scum) dumb in that game. Why do you hesitate to call Iecerint dumb here?

Happy with my vote for now.

P-edit x 10,000: More metas to analyze!

Yes, Fate, though I retain the right to retract my current townread on you if necessary.

[Amrun]

Oh, and LL, can you show me where you have used the rhetoric vs intent defense as town before (if ever)?

[Amrun]

I have completed my skim /ISO of Brotherhood. More of the same. I want some more town games to compare, when LLD gets a chance - though I have played with LLDtown twice so far.

So far her play is far more consistent with her scum meta.

Iecerint, I know. The issue is that LL is a generally impolite pllayer, especially as town, so that comment threw me off quite a bbit.

[Amrun]

Spyre: I am satisfied with your explanation on ooba. I noted the "largest wagon" thing myself.

But excluding the one post that Iece and robo took issue with, what do you think of LLD's overall play? I have a scumread in SPITE of that post, not because of it.

Robo, have you ever played with LLD before?

[Amrun]

LLD: I pretty clearly explained myself all ready. I am noticing a drastic playstyle shift that is more consistent with your scum meta. What I specifically don't like about your play in this game is your appeasement of everyone and the buddying with Iece, whom you have never even played with before. (You have an outstanding question from me about this, btw.)

You started off with something that is more "normal" for what I think of as your town play, but as soon as you came under fire, you calmed right down and started being level-neutral with everyone and it is clanging alarm bells in my mind.

This is unusually meta-heavy, but it is early game. I would have never had the urge to meta you if you hadn't changed your playstyle immediately as soon as suspicion fell on you, and that plus the buddying/appeasement in this game is why I am voting for you. The meta is just verification.

Ooba: Not necessarily, but I need to double check.

[Amrun]

LL, you called Empking (town), bobsnox (town), and tclawren(scum) dumb in that game. Why do you hesitate to call I Iecerint dumb here?

Refers to Camden.

[Amrun]

What's the difference between robo's bad logic and Iece's bad logic in this game? Are they both scummy, or only Robo?

Who in PYP taught you that you catch more flies with honey? (Certainly not Prana.)

[Amrun]

I am not extremely confident about LLD lynch, but her flip either will be informative about kdub and kdub is my only other actual suspect at the moment, mostly for his shenanigans around LLD/Iecerint, so I'd rather lynch LLD first.

[Amrun]

No - since I don't know LLD's alignment, I don't know if your attack on Iecerint was a chainsaw or not. It raised red flags for me in how you approached it, but knowing LLD's alignment will greatly assist me in drawing accurate conclusions. Even if LLD is town, I won't like your attack on Iecerint, but if she is scum you totes get scumpoints.

Without knowing either of your alignments, LLD has a higher likelihood of being scum than you (kdub).

[Amrun]

VOTE: Kdub

Not lynching that claim.

LL's vote on Iece is bad, though.

[Amrun]

Oh, shoot, I got kdub and kunk mixed up a little bit. Now I can't decide whether to vote for kdub or kunk.

LLD, why did you lie and say you had never been lynched as scum when you have?

[Amrun]

Someone link me to that scum game of LLD's, please.

[Amrun]

The claim is either real or will sort itself out. No longer interested in lynching.

[Amrun]

No. Spy slightly moreso than Kdub - though I did note your repetition of my phrasing when expressing suspicion of kdub.

[Amrun]

The use of the word "sketchy."

But not really a big issue, obv

[Amrun]

Fate had a scumread on Spyre and I hesitate to have any claims clarified.

[Amrun]

It is not pro-town to clarify claims at any point.

[Amrun]

Oh, yes, sometimes clarifying is fine. Not now.

[Amrun]

Ursula-Ariel is an INTERESTING PROPOSITION.

I really don't like how LLD soft-claimed no PR and then bam! PR.

[Amrun]

Maybe you'll drive my lynch to the gallows, but the final satisfaction will be mine.

Unless of course, some of the town on my wagon come to their senses and ignore your ravings.

Lol LLD can't even fakeclaim a PR now

LOLGGSCUM

This was what I was referring to, not the bet.

And do you see me voting for you? Still don't want to lynch you.

[Amrun]

TvT walls make me sad.

[Amrun]

TvT is town vs town. T&T is just discussion, I guess?

[Amrun]

Because half the people in this thread are high? Idk.

Voting blocs are fun.

[Amrun]

Guys, quotewars make me sad.

Back with cotent soon. *sigh*

[Amrun]

Problems I have with Kdub:

-He stops wagoning Iecerint b/c he is v/la, then wagons him while he is v/la later; after being called on this he says "lolnou," essentially. Still, this is not that important.

-He wagons kunk, saying, "I'll bite," implying he thinks ooba has a reason, but then later indicates he knew ooba wasn't serious about kunkstar.

-I dislike his attacks on Iece and especially the timing of them. I understand him saying, "Why haven't you voted LLD?" But the rest of it falls apart - especially him saying Iece didn't pressure LLD when he clearly did. Later, I dislike him taking potshots at Iece about SpyreX etc. He both takes issue with Iece for not expressing reads in clear enough language, and then for expressing them too clearly.

-I dislike his attacks on fitz A LOT. They're much worse than his attacks on Iece ever were. He FoSes fitz basically for assuming SpyreX was a scumkill, and then two posts later, says SpyreX was probably a scumkill! And 3/4 chance of being scum? That is just silly.

[Amrun]

ABR: LLD got wagonned to a claim. She claimed Ariel, Watcher/tracker. Her wagon dissolved due to claim. SpyreX got daykilled and flipped town.

[Amrun]

Shoot, I just remembered something else about kdub I found scummy but I forgot it in the 15 minutes or so I waited to post it while I was doing other things.

[Amrun]

Oh, it was his cautiousness in expressing opinions about the SpyreX flip until others did.

[Amrun]

Have you read, ABR?

[Amrun]

-I disagree that the vote being the first with serious reasoning invalidates those points.

-I explained it in my little case. I didn't like the timing of the attack or much of the content in it. You said, "You're not pressuring LLD! You're not stating your reads clearly!" when he was being clear and he was pressuring LLD, and then later, you attacked him for clearly pressuring SpyreX et. al. and stating clear reads. This line of reasoning just makes no sense.

-Definitely mixed up some stuff about fitz. I was in a rush and phoneposting at work while doing like 10 other things. I read your ISO and then sat down and wrote it and by the time I got to the end of the points I had thought of, I forgot some things.

I'm pretty sure Fate was being sarcastic, especially since town-Fate would certainly have shot at LLD there.

I'll wait for confirmation from Fate and others that they weren't responsible for the SpyreX shot before saying anything further. If nobody claims it, I'll assume it came from scum,

and in that case...

FoS: havingfitz

(Emphasis mine.) I don't see how the SpyreX kill being a scumkill in your eyes leads you to FoS fitz. In general, your case against fitz just has no substance.

Sorry for the mistakes there, but my conclusion doesn't change. You have a higher chance of being scum than most other players at this point.

[Amrun]

I would love to hear your thoughts.

[Amrun]

I can generally agree with all of that. What about LLD?

[Amrun]

Also I missed something really important.

Kdub, what is your read on Iecerint?

[Amrun]

LL, read the thread.

Kdub, I clearly did acknowledge my mistake - several times.

[Amrun]

Kunk's whole iso is scummy, but I've been scumbuddies with kunk and he played way better and much more pro-town. When I have some time I'll take a gander at some townmeta and a bigger sample size of his scum meta. (Kunk, care to help me out with this?)

Kdub, are you under the impression that I think I have t3h best kase evars? I know that I don't, but there isn't a better one to be made on anyone else, and all your attempts to do so underwhelm me.

Also I got a prod awhile back and should not have, after reading the rules again.

[Amrun]

So you like left your post in your browser to ISO me? Why didn't you just make a properly organized post? That came off as very awkward.

Also, how does medical knowledge have anything to do with Ariel?

[Amrun]

ABR actually made some good points about you, iirc.

You make a fair point about kast, though, Kdub.


Why are you rolling over and accepting a secondbest wagon according to you, Kast?

[Amrun]

Unvote; Vote: kunkstar

Thoughts on having Kdub test his shit on LLD's? Wish I didn't suspect them both. Can't see any other plan that does not involve having at least one person claiming an active ability.

[Amrun]

Guys. I think LLD is town, or watcher/tracker is a faked role. I've decided.

Kunk wagon go go

[Amrun]

Okay, biting.

Vote: LLD

Not that everything adds up, mind you.

[Amrun]

Aww. Cute.

[Amrun]

>Town read claims role related info on relative scumread
>Vote scum read
>???
>Profit

That is my plan, here.

And if you noted, I said you were probably town IF THAT WAS YOUR ACTUAL ROLE. I have no way of knowing if it is or not.

[Amrun]

How have I been anti-controversy? Pushing lynches is now anti-controversy?

[Amrun]

Show your work plox <3

Pretty sure I was the only to even make a case on Kdub.

Yes, I am going to follow Fate on this, but it is not blind. I had me pre-existing reads and they do not conflict with what he is saying.

IF you flip town, then yes, I will probably want to lynch Fate - and if he is scum gambiting, that is 1 for 1 and that is totally okay in my book.

If he is doing a town lolgambit, I will not be happy, but hopefully something else of worth will come from it, like what happened with tajo's lolgambit in Speed Mafia.

[Amrun]

Clarifying claims is bad. Haven't we already had this lesson today?

[Amrun]

Clarification is ANTI-TOWN. It is THAT SIMPLE.

[Amrun]

Gambit? Me? Nope.

This is actually making me uncomfortable.

DON'T LIE TO ME FATE

[Amrun]

Yeah, sorry. You are wrong.

[Amrun]

......

You don't know why clarifying claims is anti-town? :/

Take, for example, petroleumjelly in Shanba's Mini Theme Frogs 2 (link in my wiki). I was scum. PJ was one-shot dayvig. He didn't say how many shots he had; we didn't know whether to kill him because we needed to kill a dayvig, or PR hunt elsewhere.

Scum already have more information than town; giving them more is absolutely no help.

If I were Kdub, for example, I wouldn't have said that I die when my target is killed. I just would have completely omited that part.

[Amrun]

The above is assuming Kdub is town telling the truth, of course. But you get my point (I hope).

[Amrun]

ABR, what do you think of Fate's claim of role-related info on LLD?

[Amrun]

How do you know that?

[Amrun]

Fate are you lying y/n

You are supposed to be my lover; don't lie to me or I will break up with you.

[Amrun]

[Unvote; Vote: kunkstar]

It's okay because you admitted it before lynch.

[Amrun]

It also helped me get a townread on LLD.

[Amrun]

No massclaim lulz.

Yes to the kunkstar wagon plz.

[Amrun]

======[ ]

[Amrun]

Explain.

[Amrun]

Happy birthday, Fate.

Vote: Kast

Also guys robo was a fucking weird scumkill.

I read the flavor trying to figure out if it was a vig but it seems like scum...

[Amrun]

V/La for an indefinite period of time. My father had a heart attack. I will probably post a little, or maybe even a lot, depending on how much distraction I want, but I may disappear for a couple of days and wanted to make everyone aware.

[Amrun]

I shouldn't require replacement but I will keep everyone updated.

Is a massclaim happening y/n?,

[Amrun]

Is massclaim happening though for real?

Mafia is a good distraction sometimes.

[Amrun]

LLD and Kdub were not roleblocked by town.

Vote: LLD

[Amrun]

…Ño.

Likelihjood of sccum rb in this set up - ooba?

[Amrun]

Since I'm not around enough to do this. More subtly...

I'm thief/neighborizer - from ooba's list, it looks like my exact role was in the last game. In this game, I am goldilocks.

I stole robo's roleblock last night and blocked ABR.

RC would not confirm whether or not Robo's action would resolve or not - but since this role was in the last game, we can probably find out if someone checks.

I was all blarin' to go after robo today for having a scummy ability.

Soo... The probability of LLD having been blocked is considerably lowered. Hence my vote.

I feel like this is dumb to claim if no one else is so I hope MC is really happening. X.X

[Amrun]

It is the same role. I am also 2-shot Neughborizer but I can't use both at the same time.

I stole from Robo because he looked sketch with his comments after the hammer yesterday. I blocked ABR because I have a hard time reading him.

I didn't steal from LLD because Kdub was already confirming her.

[Amrun]

Uh.

You think town has more than two roleblockers?

RC wouldn't confirm if Robo got to use his roleblock but the same ability in the first game did not allow the target's action to resolve


So if mine works the same way, town has/had two roleblockers. More is absurd.

If scum has one, that's something else, but ooba suggests they do not.

[Amrun]

Yeah, well, fuck you guys, too. Massclaim my ass.

Fate, are you scum?

[Amrun]

When did I say kdub and lld weren't roleblocked by scum? I said they weren't roleblocked EXCEPT if by scum - hence asking ooba the likelihood of that being in the set up.

I don't have the time or energy to fight this and I don't understand why I am even being attacked. I have a feelinng it is scum motivated; Fate is now giving me gut worries. I'll do more analysis when I have time and/or attention span, both of which are in short supply.

Can someone summarize the case against me in bullet points?

[Amrun]

So why is your vote still on me, kdub?

[Amrun]

Iece...was the wing question going anywhere?

This.

[Amrun]

I tagetted Fate, but got ABSOLUTELY NO response from the mod.

[Amrun]

Yes, I am a thief and 2-shot Neighborizer.

Fate calling LLD obvtown and all that is laughable.

[Amrun]

I want Fate to go next.

[Amrun]

-I got no flavor last night.

-Also, I'm fine with the claim order as is, or with popcorning. Doesn't really make a difference to me.

I tagetted Fate, but got ABSOLUTELY NO response from the mod.

Is no response the same result as:
-Targetting Vanilla (or no stealable abilities)?
-Targetting Passive Abilities Only?
-You getting RBed?
These *might* be worth answering before Fate claims, but I'm inclined to think they can wait

(whichever is more likely to be scum should go first...mitigated by Amrun's claimed role is a copy of another role RC has already run)

. I'm reading Amrun as more likely town than Fate, and I'm not seeing any reason for scum Amrun to lie about her thief ability having no result. I'm leaning against the possibility of both being town due to Fate's response.

I have no idea which of those it means, if any. All I know is that I didn't get jack shit from the mod.

[Amrun]

I got nominated for a scummy for my scum game. I know how to play as scum. It is what it is. Do you have an active ability?

[Amrun]

I am Goldilocks as I said before. I am a Friendly Thief. My 2-shot Neighborizerizer is actually called "Befriend" - and is totally confirmable. My picture has a blonde woman on a bed eating porridge surrounded by three bears that look like they are about to gangrape her.

Fate, stop acting like anyone suspecting you is scum after you threw down the worst hammer of the century. What scum would nk you after your day 2 behavior? None, because if you were actually town, scum would hope for a mislynch on you after that. But luckily, you're scum.

I don't know what to think of ABR because his ability is scummy as fuck but he isn't.

[Amrun]

"Steal from" is pretty self-explanatory, but okay. Steal from and Befriend.

[Amrun]

I'm not voting until mc is done, obviously, Fate. You are playing just like AGM and you're scum here, too.

[Amrun]

Likelihood of two town redirectors? Low. I believe Kast over Fate.

Fate, it's not at all about meta. You've been supremely inconsistent this game. Comparing your treatments of LLD day 1 and day 2 is insane and don't feel like the same player. Your attacks on ABR today are absolutely terrible and read like cocky scum rather than just normal cocky Fate.

VOTE: Fate

[Amrun]

I haven't used my 2-shot yet, ooba. My theif ability isn't x-shot.

VOTE: ABR

I want to follow ooba's theory.

[Amrun]

I didn't neighborize anyone yet.

[Amrun]

I can't use both actions dring one night.

[Amrun]

I thought about it.

VOTE: Kast

[Amrun]

Shit, you did claim early and Fate didnt say fuck all about it. Ugh.

[Amrun]

I didn't realize your Tinkerbell results were so explicit.

VOTE: Fitz

The Kast/Fitz pair is confusing me, so maybe best to avoid them for today and steal from one of them at night. I had Fate as scum and Kast as null/townish, but then Fate's drunkposting seemed pretty genuine to me and lynch a beloved princess would be balls.

[Amrun]

Fate puts more effort into cases on himself than on his suspects.

[Amrun]

Why did you let them gangrape me, guys... x.x

(In other words, bah.)

[Amrun]

I WAS IN A ONE V. ONE WITH FUCKIN KAST


DERPFUCKS VOTED ME INSTEAD

???

I FLIP TOWN

???

YOU LYNVCH...

ABR

WTF

I 100% echo this sentiment.

I mean, I kind of thought ABR was scum, because of his ability but not because of his play, but Kast after Fate should have been obvious.

[Amrun]

Uh, dueling redirectors? Both town? No.

[Amrun]

Agree with Ooba.