The Brave and the Beautiful 2: Fairy Tales ÔÇô Game Over

[Iecerint]

@ SX -- Which of these are you WHAAAAAAAAAT-ing (?):

1. Why is Iec posting so much when he should be learning to be a doctor so that he does not pay another $500 to take this test later?

2. Why is Iec self-meta-ing with wallposts? That is morally wrong!

3. Why is Iec self-meta-ing with wallposts? OMG SCUMZ!?

Please tell me I want to know.

[SpyreX]

Cool, no more need to quote crap and onto real business.

Ooba's madness is waaay over the top. Faulty logic or logical leaps aside that post in conjuction with the others is teaparty.

Seeing Kdub go from "no wagons on Iec V/LA" to an Iec vote is wooosh.

I follow LLD's irritation with Robo although both of them are town.

Fitz is also probably town getting sucked into that LLD vortex with Fate.

------

@Iec:

#1 is a given. #2 and #3 are the same cardinal sin.

The real what is "In what universe was ANY of that useful or necessary at all."

Because I look at that page, look at that post and look at that page again and I can feel the braincells escaping my body versus trying to figure out THAT as an explanation for the hmmm, vote fate post.

[ReaperCharlie]

The Brave and Beautiful Vote Count

1.2

---

Lady Lambdadelta [3] – Robocopter87, Fate, havingfitz

kunkstar7 [2]

– ooba, bv310

Amrun [1]

– kunkstar7

bv310 [1]

– Amrun

Fate [1]

– Iecerint

Iecerint [1]

– Kdub

ooba [1]

– SpyreX

Robocopter87 [1]

– Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

– Albert B. Rampage, Kast

---

With 13 players alive, it is 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is July 1 at 12pm PST (3pm EST).

[Amrun]

My thoughts so far:

-LLD's initial reaction to the ooba-early-scumteam call did not raise any flags for me, though in hindsight, I agree with Iecerint that it does seem more likely to come from a scum perspective. However, with play style, I write this off as null.

-My major issue with LLD: what the fuck is this appeasement shit? This is like night and day with the town LLD I have played with before. LLD, can you provide some scum meta (or just say your wiki is up to date)?

-Kdub is also sketch. While I disagree with SpyreX about the Iecerint V/LA issue because Iece was obviously around and posting, Kdub's posts bother me for a couple of specific reasons I somehow forgot already - I think it was how he attacked Iece, but I'll get up coherent thoughts on this later. Also, I want to note that the Iece vote will look particularly bad if LLD were to flip scum in the future.

-SpyreX, what do you find scummy about ooba? I don't understand.

[Amrun]

Oh, I forgot.

Unvote ; Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

For a fairly drastic departure from her town play, but this is contingent upon further meta investigation which I am too exhausted to do right at this second.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My Wiki is not up to date.

Some scum games I am proud of (I.E: Did well in) are Bloodbath in Camden and BrotherHood of the Wolf.

For an SK game, look at Higurashi Mafia.

If you're too lazy to look those up, I'll find them for you (but I'm also lazy and tired~)

[Amrun]

Since I am posting from my phone, I would appreciate links to those. Also, if you could include an unexemplary example of scum play as well, that would be helpful.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've never been lynched as (and therefor have never lost as) scum.

So it sounds conceited, but... I don't have one~?

[kunkstar7]

While ooba's scumteam call is a bit crazy (not just because it is on me, but doing that with any player in general -assuming the call was serious in intent- is crazy), robo's logic is just as ridiculous. By his statement's defending yourself in the slightest is scummy. LLD is not scum for her reaction to that.

Unvote; Vote: Iecerint.

[Amrun]

LL, okay, it's just that the way you phrased it made me think you were saying those games were exemplary in comparison to [ ]? The links you mentioned will be fine.

Kunkstar7, why are you voting for Iecerint? You didn't even mention him in your post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=17191

That's Bloodbath. That was a perfect scum sweep (there was a mechanic that killed scum at night, but no town member ever lynched or killed scum).

I'll grab Brotherhood next.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=16125

Here's Brotherhood.

[Iecerint]

1. I self-meta aggressively and transparently as both town and scum. I also never lie when I self-meta (or haven't yet, at least), so I'd venture that it's a slight town-tell for me if I were to guess.

2. When I'm town, I think the process of reflection that occurs when I self-meta helps me to become more aware of the differences between scum and town analysis patterns, albeit by cross-supplying my own playstyle. (My feelings about LLD's response are an example of this from this particular game.) I think this helps me to get into the game. So I think self-meta helps me personally.

3. Also, I think I sometimes come up with independently compelling arguments through self-meta. I think the big post I made earlier today is one such example. I think the ONLY way I would vote for Fate as I did as scum was a) because it was random-y, which is objectively unlikely because Fate is a bad target for that or b) if this is all a devious conspiracy, which is similarly unlikely and unnecessarily high-risk IMO. So I think self-meta can also sometimes help the other players in the game if I get lucky in the course of my introspection.

The explanation for voting Fate came before the self-meta post. I answered that separately. It was only after that that I reflected a little and realized (fortuitously!) that I would NEVER have made such a vote as scum, so I made a separate post explaining why.

P-edit: No idea why the hell kunk is voting me. Maybe he doesn't even know?

[Iecerint]

SX, other than meta things (because those tentatively make sense to me, even if Amrun disagrees), why is LLD town?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh Amrun, I'm sorry.

For Brotherhood, I replace into the game near the end of Day 3.

[Iecerint]

Ooba needs to post.

[Fate]

Hi


LLD dead yet?

[kunkstar7]

Damn, well that messed. Was thinking about Iecerint but not in a voting way...

Unvote;Vote: Kdub.

Flipping on Iecerint back and forth is sketchy. Don't recall Iecerint declaring a V/LA officially, while he did mention some difficulty taking time to post, he has clearly been around, so the calling out the wagon makes no sense, especially when you get back on again.

[Fate]

Ooba's town Iec.

Your reads are quite bad as usual lol.

Ninja: Lol kunksscum ignoring LLD wagon

[Fate]

Fucking hell SpyreX

Not again

Not AGAIN

[Fate]

Hey Amrun can we be town lovers together?

Iec is still fence sitting about me (no surprise there) ABR hasn't posted yet, and Spy is scum.

I need a town friend.

[Iecerint]

I have never played with scumOoba. All I know is that this one posts funny. I want more posts for more information.

Be patient. <3

[Robocopter87]

So frustration and lashing out at people is now a scum tell?

Why then, have you not voted Fate?

By your logic, any discrediting of another player is scummy.

And yet, Fate does this in his post about HavingFitz.

Your selective use of this reaction tell is noted.

Though, this has no reflection on Fate's alignment. It can be equally attributed to you being scared of voting Fate.

But thats the thing, why were you so frustrated and lashing out at such an obviously ludicrous post? There was no call for anger, there was call for thinking it was ridiculous. But suddenly you flip out and start calling it all stupid.

I don't see Fate OMGUS-ing people.

Discrediting of havingfitz and your discrediting of Ooba was a completely different scenario.

I don't think Fate is scum or town. I have a null read on Fate thus far. I don't see him doing anything scummy, but I also don't see him as supertown. At such an early point in the game I have multiple null reads on most of the player list. I have no intention of voting Fate.

Oh, and Robo?

I am confirmed to myself as town.

He claims I am scum.

Of course I'm going to say his post is "false" and make it look false.

You know why? Because it is.

Your logic fails to hold up in any meaningful way.

Of course you are going to say your town. What else would you call yourself?

Yes, he did think you were scum.

Waaaaaaaaait.

Why, "Make it look false"?

Are you saying that instead of saying whats wrong with it you have to make it appear false instead? Why do you need to give it a veneer of false when it has obvious flaws in it already?

My Logic is holding up by your very actions. I posted that you had a scummy reaction to a post, you then asked why it was scummy. I gave you an answer. You Quadruple posted!

Actually, the more I read that reasoning by Robo, the more I twitch.

Unvote; Vote: Robo

Your one reason was only that I was "trying to discredit his post". Yet, he calls me scum in the post, which to me, clearly makes it false. Why are you ignoring that contradiction, Robo?

Now hold on a second, I covered this so-called "Contradiction"?

Did I not post that his reasoning made no sense?

• LL's reaction to ooba's post == scummy
  
• Ooba's scumteam doesn't make much sense to me.
  
• But even though it doesn't make sense, LL is still scum

The reason that

I

think you are scum is because of your reaction.
The reaction was scummy because of a question.
The question being,

If Ooba's scumteam suggestion was so futile, why did you react so violently towards it?

Kunkstar7, why are you voting for Iecerint? You didn't even mention him in your post.

This.

Ooba needs to post.

And this.

PEDIT x4:

Kunk changed his vote, so scratch the part about explanations.

@Fate: Why is Iece town?

ANOTHER PEDIT: Please stop ninjaing me.

Yet another PEDIT: I asked nicely.

[Amrun]

Similarities in LL's play in Camden to here:

More appeasement, to both scumbuddies and town.

Less rage than town play, like here.

Uses exact same "attacks Rhetoric instead of intent" defense (may be null if also used as town, though I never saw her use it as town when I played with her).


The lack of rage / faked rage is the thing really sticking in my craw. The post that people take issue with is what I see as LL's towniest post, tbh, but those that follow are making me feel progressively worse about her. I'll continue to compare when more links are provided.

LL, you called Empking (town), bobsnox (town), and tclawren (scum) dumb in that game. Why do you hesitate to call Iecerint dumb here?

Happy with my vote for now.

P-edit x 10,000: More metas to analyze!

Yes, Fate, though I retain the right to retract my current townread on you if necessary.

[Amrun]

Oh, and LL, can you show me where you have used the rhetoric vs intent defense as town before (if ever)?