Large Normal 132: Desert Mafia (Over!)

[mastin2]

Delayed Action Vig?

I have no clue what role that is, and I doubt I'd find it if I searched on the Wiki. My GUESS would be that Empking sends in a kill, and said person dies either during the day phase at some time or during the next night phase.

Does anyone know if Empking would shoot on an N0?

Also. Gorilla is town. Discuss.

I'm also going to take a stab in the dark.

1. inHimshallibe
2. [winger]
3. DeityKabuto
4. Kublai Khan
12. Hiraki

The Scum Are Within Those Names.

Vote: Khan Man

. For old time's sake.

(Fun fact: I've been in two games with Khan.
In Both Games, Khan was scum.
I am in this game.
Khan is in this game.
Therefore, Khan is scum.

My logic is flawless! )

[mastin2]

Also. I'm trying to think whether Deity is confirmed town or confirmed scum. I know for a fact he's one or the other, right now.

[mastin2]

Also, I'm not so sure about the size of the scumteam. Four seems like too much for a game of this size, three seems like too few, yet we obviously don't have a SK. Anyone got ideas?

(Yes, this is me in rapid-fire day-start posting mode. I'll settle in some more later-on. Probably in a real-life day or so. Until then, you'll have to deal with ten to twenty posts from me in a day. )

[mastin2]

Make that five too many, three too few, four still seeming like a lot, but a bit more reasonable. Five is 1/3rd, three is under 1/4th, four is a little over 1/4th, but somehow, it just feels like too many. [REDACTED--Role Speculation.]

That seems to balance it out somewhat, but it might just be me.

[mastin2]

Should I role claim now?

Too late to turn back now. You've already gone down the path of claiming. It's not quite to the point of being a softclaim, but it's pretty close.

And I come from a day where softclaimers either hardclaimed or were forced to do so via L-1ness.

[mastin2]

So, yeah. You should claim, Deity.

[mastin2]

...Where'd he go? :/
You don't offer to claim and then just disappear. >_<

[mastin2]

"Whatever first impression my post has given you, is a 100% guaranteed wrong result in every instance."

Heh. If it were GreyIce or me, I'd expect this to be inverted:

"Whatever first impression I get of you, it is 100% guaranteed wrong in every instance." (Bit of an in-joke. For Ice, just ask about the vat of acid. For me, just ask why there's a "2" in my username. )

I am in agreement that Deity's claim was indeed less than ideal, but we'll have to make the most of it.

Also. Replace Deity's name on my scumlist with our new hydra.

[mastin2]

Just noticed Sky had "Goon", rather than "Townsperson". Meaning, They've played before. (Though I am a bit concerned at a trend I noticed there. Mainly, that they replaced out of both.)

[mastin2]

When I have the time, and am not familiar with them.

It tends to take too much time, normally.

But, yeah. Habit I started when I was scum (first scum game other than 688), but which I began to use regardless of alignment eventually.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Rambling About My Experience With Other Players

1. inHimshallibe <--Played with 'Him once as an alt, and have also seen him in Oldy Mafia be lynched. (Yes, I read all of Oldy Mafia.)
2. [winger] <--A familiar name from There Will Be Bloodshed.
3. DeityKabuto <--Ongoing.
4. Kublai Khan <--Newbie 742, I was cop, nailed both scum on first two pages, and investigated one of 'em Night One. Said person was later replaced by Khan, who claimed doc. I won that battle, Khan got lynched, and I was NK'd. (Interestingly enough, my N2 investigation wasn't on the second scum. It was on someone I thought was town, but yet I had some doubts about. Sound familiar?
7. Silver1337 <--I saw one or two games which I was interested in browsing which had Silver's name in it. I have no clue which ones, so really not that familiar.
8. Skyquiem <--That would require me to know who the heads are.
9. RisingPhoenix <--Never heard of RisingPhoenix.
10. gorilla <--Two games, both ongoing.
11. Reya Cookiebringer <--Seen the name, don't remember the player.
12. Hiraki <--Another name from There Will Be Bloodshed. I've also caught Hiraki's name elsewhere, though I don't remember where. Likely browsing.
13. Scott Brosius <--Haven't really seen this name before.
14. Mana_Ku <--I've heard of Mana_Ku, but I'm not positive we've played together. It's possible.
15. Ranmaru <--In a game I browsed, I saw Ranmaru be called an anti-town player due to Ranmaru's style of play. Some Mini game with Pine in it. I've seen Ranmaru's name on the browsing list a lot, too, more than the other players (which I have seen. I saw Reya, Silver, and perhaps Phoenix browsing at times, too. Might've seen Scott once or twice, too, though I'm less sure of that) so that MIGHT be a good sign.
I don't actually know anything about Ranmaru, though. Simply saw that others wanted Ranmaru to replace out for being anti-town.

[mastin2]

*For Khan, I forgot to mention I was in Emerald City Mafia (it's a Large, in the 90s) with him. I was Cerulean, he was the opposite scum faction. He claimed Miller, and I called him (correctly) as scum. Too bad the person I buddied with (thinking they were town, ironically)--ZazieR--was one of his buddies, so I got lynched partially for buddying to the opposite scum faction. (There was...a lot more to it than that, of course. )
It's the game which got him the Title Fairy nomination, Khan Man. Hence my vote's wording.

(And, yes, I searched for Sky's name site-wide, trying to locate anything, but either I didn't look hard enough or there was nothing for me to find in that way.)

[mastin2]

I don't understand the logic behind openely stating your experience or knowledge of other players playstyles.

It's not like it's anything they wouldn't already know.

[mastin2]

Also, consider me distracted and therefore at incoherence risk.

_________________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Kublai Kahn: 1 (mastin2) L-7
  
  
  Not Voting: 13 (inHimshallibe, [winger], DeityKabuto, Kublai Khan, Silver1337, Skyquiem, RisingPhoenix, gorilla, Reya Cookiebringer, Hiraki, Scott Brosius, Mana_Ku, Ranmaru)

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

Amd somehow I instantly like Scott.

[mastin2]

I know it instinctively.

Hint: it's something I'm quite fond of.

[mastin2]

I'll respond to what I need to later. Still incoherent right now.

But I'm telling you here and now {Hiraki, Sky, Scott} contains 1-2 scum in it. There's no way this is town-on-town-with-town. If that makes sense.

[mastin2]

Indeed, Sky is a suspect of mine as well.

[mastin2]

For the record, I'm quite confident Mana's town, and pretty sure Scott is, too.

[mastin2]

Reya, you here?

[mastin2]

Pretty sure Reya's here and reading. It'll be nice to see another opinion on this matter.

[mastin2]

Or not.

Users browsing this forum: mastin2, Reya Cookiebringer
^What it was. I checked multiple times. Also saw Reya posting somewhere on the forum as the last post in one of 'em.

Users browsing this forum: mastin2
^What it is, now.

[mastin2]

Last post by Reya Cookiebringer
^Yup, Reya should be here.

[mastin2]

Going to bed; it's 1:30 am. Will see you all tomorrow.

_________________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Skyquiem: 2 (Scott Brosius, Mana_Ku) L-6
  
  Kublai Kahn: 1 (mastin2) L-7
  Scott Brosius: 1 (Hiraki) L-7
  
  Not Voting: 10 (inHimshallibe, [winger], DeityKabuto, Kublai Khan, Silver1337, Skyquiem, RisingPhoenix, gorilla, Reya Cookiebringer, Ranmaru)

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

Alright. You'll be happy to know I've settled down a little and probably won't be posting twenty times a day, anymore.
Unfortunately, this'll be a bit of a wall, due to how much I have to read. Sorry, guys. I hate walling games.

Uhm, ok :S? Now I'm confused as I have been absent for a long time, so I don't see how you could have heard of my name :S

So have I.
My join date says 2009, but it's actually October 2008, around your time. (Granted, I didn't start playing until February '09, since I was waiting for 688 to end, but still...) Around late '09, I stopped playing until late 2010.

I don't think I need to state that each of those times, said person wanting said information was scum.

In my experience, the opposite is true, and it has been town asking.

It's really pretty null.

Know what instinctively exactly?

The reasons it'd be considered anti-town. While not necessarily accurate reasons, I do know 'em quite well.


I'm still sticking to {Hiraki, Scott, Sky} containing 1-2 scum, and I think Scott's town.

Then let's make this work~

Catching up at this very moment--got all of page three and four to read. (My bad. I set a pace for the game, that being, a fast one. I have only myself to blame. )

I played a game as a scum with mastin, and overall, he is our best chance at winning the game.

I'm honored that you think I'm that good. I'll try not to disappoint.

Scratch my plans for a Sky vote. Khan still deserves my vote for this. For multiple reasons. I could make a wall of my own on this post alone, due to how many things are wrong with it.
I am more civilized than that. I am not the emotional guy whose ego can be explointed into endlessly walling like I used to be.

Khan's living, breathing scum on Page Three. His scumminess continues with every post.

I get a distinct Newb-Town Feeling From Silver. Am I the only one?

For the record, Ranmaru is also town.

Explain this.

It'd be a wall of its own. I might do it later, but my priority is on explaining scum-reads above explaining town-reads. (To do so, I'm thinking of opening a QT to dump my thoughts into. It seems to work pretty well, and cuts down on my walling in-thread. Since if I can lock onto a logical way to explain things in there, I can describe it in the least amount of words possible in-thread.)

I'm going to be cautious with my reads on Hiraki, since I sucked at reading him last game. But, uh, for the record? I didn't like his post. (Like with Khan's, it's for multiple reasons. It'd be a shorter wall, but still a wall, so can explain later.)

Ranmaru's posts continue to scream the essence of town.

Mastin, is your reasoning behind believing that there's 1-2 scum in the early posters because you believe mafia are much more likely to pay attention *removed rest of rambling*

Nope. Just general interactions. I'm generally pretty good at seeing this kind of thing. Off-site, I nailed the most powerful scum Power Role on Day One with similar interactions I've observed to right here. It's not a debate which is pure scum fighting. Heck, it might have two names in there which're town. But it's not a pure town argument. There's just no way.

Also people posting about spectators viewing the thread *rambling removed*

I wasn't planning on posting it, since I know it's annoying. Then I saw that the name had disappeared. Then I observed that same name had been posting elsewhere, recently. And had both neglected to do so here and had BEEN here yet not posted. Which seemed important to mention.

Hey, that head of Sky. Are You A Mastin Alt?
(Think about it--the long posts, the fondness for the razz smiley, the rambling nature...it makes perfect sense! )

I was thinking of narrowing it down before, but, uh, with Sky and then Hiraki's posts on Page Four, I'm pretty confident I can remove Scott's name and say 1-2 scum are within {Sky, Hiraki}.

Sky said: "Ranmaru, please post less". (Paraphrased heavily, since that head of Ranmaru is as bad as a rambler as I am.)
Hiraki said: "Ranmaru, stop posting."
^I find it hard to believe both are town after that. One, sure, but not both.

Caught up as of post 90. I'll do a brief rundown of the people here.

[mastin2]

Reads, Alphabetical Order:
Deity--town. Not very smart town, but town, nonetheless.
Gorilla--town.
Hiraki--suspect. However, between Sky and Hiraki, Hiraki looks better to me, especially since I fear tunneling on him.
Khan--scum. My vote remains. Willing to explain, but it'd be a long wall.
Mana--town.
Ranmaru--town.
Reya--minor suspect. When Reya comes, I'll be expecting an explanation for apparently having viewed the thread, been online, posting elsewhere, and yet, not having posted in here.
Scott--town. A bit of a weak town-read, but still a town-read.
Silver--Newb-town.
Sky--prob-scum. It's possible they're town, but they're the least likely of {Scott, Sky, Hiraki} to be town.

Everyone else has yet to post. Not too bad, that's 3/14 alive. Those three being, inHim, [winger], and RisingPhoenix.

Still a little suspicious of inHim/winger, and I expect one of 'em to be scum.

So,

Spoiler: List, Ordered Roughly Most Town To Most Scum

Deity
Gorilla
Mana
Ranmaru
Silver
Scott

RisingPhoenix

Reya
inHim
[winger]
Hiraki
Sky
Khan

Yeah, seems pretty accurate. In my six scum suspects, I'd be surprised if we don't find AT LEAST half the scum. Likely 3. (I suppose it's possible I have all four, but, uh, I tend not to be THAT good. )

[mastin2]

I realized that later, and coulda sworn I edited it. My bad.

[mastin2]

DK's a newbie, who doesn't understand how strong the JK role is. It combines town Roleblocker (not very helpful early-game, but gamebreakingly powerful late-game) and town Doctor (useful early game [stopped kills do wonders], useful late game [after claims], pretty worthless in the middle).

[mastin2]

(Effectively, a JK is essentially "confirm or deny a person as town". If there's no kill, then the JK is either confirmed town--was targeted for the kill--or confirmed scum--was blocked FROM killing. And you can usually tell the difference between them, especially if there's repeat performances. Block 'em once and a failed kill, likely town. Block 'em twice and a failed kill, possible town with dumb scum. Block 'em thrice with a failed kill, and then you start to realize maybe it's not the scum targeting the JK'd...)

[mastin2]

Ah, good. I was starting to get worried, Phoenix. Seeing your name hang around for so long, I was worried it'd disappear.

Block em four times and you're subtly trying to direct Kabuto?

Nah, just remembering a game I browsed. Old, old game, at that. I believe it was a Battlestar Galactica game. Last scum claimed Gunsmith. (I think it was day gunsmith, too.) Got protected by the JK. Once, thought it was town being targeted for a kill. Twice, began to get suspicious. Third strike, they were out, and the last scum was lynched when they realized the Gunsmith was really scum.

Don't remember it that well, but that's what I do remember.

Phoenix has moved from null to town, by the way.

[mastin2]

Your first post was a joke, right?

Semi. I fully intended to RVote Khan for the reasons mentioned. (Khan scum in both my previous games with him, Khan scum this game.) Now that Khan has actually proven himself scum (rather than third time's the charm), the vote remains.

My scum list there was partially serious, in that it was an educated guess.

[mastin2]

Breaking down my first post:
Gorilla town, serious.
Scum within names, it was exactly what I said: a shot in the dark. So, semi-serious.
Khan Vote--my RVote, so obviously not serious, at the time. Khan's response, on the other hand...

[mastin2]

(Hey,

just realized,

obviously planned from the start

that

means

I progressively got more jokey as the post went along! )

[mastin2]

Honestly I would think the scum team wouldn't be paried together, though.

That was coincidence. It wasn't that they were close together on the scumlist. It was something else, the reason it wasn't completely random.

And my reason for thinking Khan's scum isn't my RVote's reason. He's literally living breathing scum in every post, acting exactly the way I remember him as scum. The one difference is that now, I'm wiser and more experienced and know better than to fall into his trap. With a N0, this is how things go:

Spoiler: Typical Scum Dialog

Scum 1: Hi, all! *talks about experience levels* *talks about who they know and don't know*. What should be do?
Scum 2: Hi, *scum1*! *maybe gives own experience*. I know *others*, too! I think we should kill *names*. (Yes, names. Scum never select a single name alone.)
Scum 1: Sounds good to me, though I'd go with *name*.
Scum 3: *lists the people in the town* *begins to list Scum3's experience with all the names* *asks for buddies' opinions on names they didn't list as kill options*, *begins to formulate a plan for day actions*.
Scum 4: I agree. *furthers plan for day actions*. *Gives feedback on who to kill, based on their plan for dayplay*. *Thinks about who to send FOR the kill*.
Scum 1: Agreed.
Scum 2: Not quite happy about *small detail in the plan*, but otherwise, I'm fine with that.
Scum 3: Then we're in agreement.
Scum 4: Let's do this!

If you couldn't tell, I'm generally portraying Scum 1 as semi-newbish (but possibly with some experience--probably off-site, but potentially one or two games on-site), Scum 2 as relatively new but somewhat experienced, and Scums 3&4 as experienced. Khan in this situation as either 3 or 4 would essentially do what he did in Emerald City:

*If a previous scum player brought up the option of killing mastin*. "I wouldn't be afraid of him. He's a pushover if you know how to touch on his buttons. He's arrogant and has an easily exploitable ego. I've done it before. He's not a threat to us."

Why do I think this is what Khan did?

His play's scarily similar to Emerald City, for starters. But there's more to it. Like I said, I'm willing to explain in a wall, but it'd be a long wall.

[mastin2]

Also, since this game had an abnormally long night, the scum had more time to talk than normal, to better prepare themselves for the day. They knew what they were doing, and all members certainly had a chance to chime in.

[mastin2]

(And, yes, I know the mind of scum better than the mind of town, because I've been scum in an abnormally large amount of my games on Mastin. Most people average 25-33%. If I did the calculations, I believe the number for me comes closer to 40-45%. Not quite 50%, but certainly more than normal. I've also read Scum QTs in a lot of games even if I've not read the gamethread itself. Additionally, I remember reading MD guides about how scum think, and thinking, "this is spot-on". I'm very good at observing general trends. And the typical scumteam in a game like this is exactly what I said: one fairly new player, one slightly more experienced but still relatively new, at least one veteran player, and probably a second veteran player. It's obviously not something rock-solid, but it happens, like, 80% of the time, at least.)

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Numbers

688 scum
735 town
742 town
763 town
760 town
762 town
141 town
145 scum
LAL scum
779 scum
91 town
791 town
767 town
148 town
748 scum
Mean Mod town
Soul Society town.
778 town.
Boost Mafia 2 scum.
131 town.
808 town.
Stars Aligned scum.
Phables Deathnote town.
MtG Parallel town.
155 scum.
92 third party (lyncher).
96 Cerulean scum.
98 town.
804 town.

1024 scum.
Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 scum.
1048 town.
126 scum.
TWBBS town.
(Rest Ongoing.)

(Wow, 34 games. And also three or four as an alt.)

11/34 scum comes out to be 32%.

My mistake. I thought it was closer to 40, but I apparently was town more often than I remember. (If I count my Marathon games and being a lyncher as being scum, it'd boost that number up a bit, but that's a stretch.)

Again, why does this make him scum and not null?

Will come in wall. (Opening a QT for me to dump my thoughts into, so hopefully the wall will be shorter and more clear.)

Explain what he did the last two games as scum, that he is doing here. Bring up quotes too.

Was not intending to do this, but will add it in. Shouldn't be that hard to search the archives a bit. It'll delay the wall a bit (Meta wastes hours of my time when done well), but will likely be worth it.

Khan would obviously be 3 or 4 in this scenario, because Khan's one of the most experienced players here--even a lot of people present now who consider themselves vets would look up to Khan. Who here is even close to being Khan's on-site age?

[mastin2]

(For those curious, "Opening a QT for me" in this case is me essentially doing what a hydra does: keep a QT for the two heads to dump thoughts on each other. [Only, in my case, I'm dumping thoughts in there for myself.] In my experience hydra'ing with Nacho, I found this worked really well in cutting down the length of my posts and made me a far more coherent player. By duplicating this only as a solo player, I'm hoping to achieve the same result: a far more concise, clear Mastin than the one Khan remembers.)

[mastin2]

Word's inconvenient for me to use. Especially with what it does to quotation marks. The alternative is Notepad, which while handy, is a bit inconvenient for me to use, since it's harder for me to visualize what my post will look like. A QT, on the other hand, works perfectly.

[mastin2]

I've begun. Already made quite some progress. Could post what I've got so far, but I still think it needs refinement, as well as research (in this case, meta).

[mastin2]

I have seen nothing to suggest any of my reads should change at this point.

Spoiler: List, Ordered Roughly Most Town To Most Scum

Deity
Gorilla
Mana
Ranmaru
Silver
RisingPhoenix
Scott

Reya
inHim
[winger]
Hiraki
Sky
Khan

Just for reference. Pretty much unchanged by the dialog we've had.

[mastin2]

3: I had forgotten that I made crazy theories even back then.

4) Stuck to that theory no matter what. For the rest of the game he was alive. In the Dead QT thread. In the post-game. Today, probably.

This part's false, in that the theory might've been the start for my suspicion on Khan, but was far from the only thing which was off about him. Rather, pretty much everything he did was living, breathing scum to me, and I was right. Only, because I got trapped in a Wall War, I couldn't prove it because nobody was reading my posts. (For instance, VP WAS manipulating my words blatantly. There was no way to look at my posts the way VP did and come to the conclusions he did. People believed his interpretation because he was more concise.)
5: Said as much in-thread.

6) mastin2's current theory about how I must be scum 3 or 4 and quote about how I claimed I could manipulate mastin2 were taken directly from the beginning of Mafia 96 Vermillion scum thread (Link - Post 6).

Quite intentionally, I might add. That was kinda the point.

The rest I'll be addressing in my future post.

(But to answer Ranmaru who just ninja'd me, they pretty much confirm my read. Brief reason as to why, is that Khan's trying to degrade the quality of my play and convince OTHERS that I'm full of BS. Rather than convince ME that I'm wrong. There's far more to it than that, of course, and I'll be elaborating in the case.)

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Empking Killing Me?

People seem to be under the mistaken impression that Empking would vig me for Walling.

To my knowledge, Empking's only been in my games a couple times, and if memory serves, never had an issue with me. For instance, he thought Calcifer (me and Nacho, hydra'ing) was scum since Day One in Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, later confirmed by his cop result, but it was not because of anti-town play. (He simply thought we were scum for some reasons I don't remember, and was right. Guy's a good scumhunter, far more so than he's ever given credit for.)

Additionally, as mentioned, I walled a lot less when hydra'ing. If anything, Empking's impression of me would be rather positive, since he'd probably also be familiar with my extensive MD work, knowing that I'm not the VI I used to be.

The only reason Empking would really have to vig me is if he thought I was too good of a player as scum, due to how well I reacted when I was caught scum. (It was mainly me posting during that period of time--I got Parama lynched over ourselves, and put up a valiant effort after that, though we still got quicklynched.) In other words, because he might think I'm too GOOD, rather than too bad.

I do not intend to constantly wall this game. Rather, to be as clear and concise as possible.

Spoiler: On Walling With Khan

If I fall into the trap of walling with Khan, Khan'll win the debate, guaranteed. It happened before. It ALMOST happened TWICE! (I was forced to claim in 742 because Khan was--quite simply--out-playing me and doing a better job of pushing me as scum. My claim was more believable than his, and that's the only reason I won: because of my role, rather than my play.) Khan's posts give off the vibe, of intentionally luring me in. He's got his hand out and is curving the four fingers at me, telling me, "come on and try me". He's trying to show my play as weak, strawman my points, trying to degrade my scumhunting, and it serves two purposes. 1: Convince the town that I am a deranged lunatic who has no clue what he's talking about, while also 2: Trying to intentionally push the buttons which manipulated me before, push the buttons which made me go berserk and wall every post. And if he accomplished #2, he'd also further strengthen #1, by going to the town and saying, "see? I was right about him!"

Not this game, Khan.

[mastin2]

And I will be elaborating in my wall. It'll likely be my only serious wall, and if Khan counters it, you'll not see me fall into his game. (I'm the undisputed master of making walls, sure. However, I am far from the best at making walls which're convincing. In that department, a player as skilled as Khan has me beat by miles.) I'm working on it slowly, but right now, I have other more pressing obligations. This game just started; my other obligations need more attention than a game which has plenty of time left. When I can, it'll be finished, and my brief posts will resume. (I like shorter posts.)

[mastin2]

[winger] - No vote, claims to have re-read the game on Page 7, but has yet to offer up very little beyond "DK is probably town". Afraid to take strong stances or even ask mild questions. Looks like he's settling in to actively lurk until he can pounce on wounded prey (Scummy)

Ah, how I love hypocritical humor...

I see a vote, but it's a bad one. I see

nothing

very little (see below) I'd call real scumhunting. Your reason? "Horrible vote". "Needs to justify vote." Along with ranting at me and the confirmed town Deity. And then ranting at Ranmaru. And then more ranting against me.

The only post you do anything resembling scumhunting is the very one I'm quoting. The winger suspicion is valid (but reads as highly hypocritical). Your reads on me and Deity are worthless filler. Your read on Silver comes off as scum fencesitting as well as a contradiction--calling him Green as Moss (presumably, you're calling Silver seriously town), but mention his terrible posts. If you stuck to one or the other, it'd be a valid bit of scumhunting. As is, not so much.

Sky--hydra hatred, also filler, worthless and not really giving an opinion either way. RisingPhoenix is the second true bit of scumhunting I see from you, and the first one I have no issue with. Gorilla you don't give reasons at all, not so much as a hint, just going with the general trend which the thread had at the time on him, "he doesn't look good". (If that makes sense.) Hiraki is an inversion of this. No reasons, and going against general opinion.

Scott--this one, I'll give you as being legitimate scumhunting, but only just, since the reasoning to me would actually imply TOWN to me. (Newb-town, but still...) Mana was also mostly filler.

And of course the Ranmaru read is worthless.


Don't get me wrong. There's scumhunting in there, of course, as I just pointed out. But lots of it is horrible, and a lot of it comes off as fluff intended to appear as scumhunting. Enough so to the point where your winger thing seemed hypocritical. You are on the Fence it seems in too many affairs (not taking strong stances). It's in the very way you WORD things. Your posts have mainly been ranting at others, which is itself pretty contentless. You also look like you're setting yourself up to pounce on a lot of easy targets. (I can quote for proof, but later, when I'm not busy.) And overall?

You give a severe Active Lurker impression to me.

I'll address the rest of the wall later. I'm preoccupied at the moment.

[mastin2]

Khan, I'm not Tunneling.

See, I'm keeping an open mind about the six names I've posted. I'm willing to accept that I'm not a perfect scumhunter, and some of the names that I've called scum are actually town. In particular, the ones who are actually giving me that impression.

You are not among them.

Your posts are consistently failing to show me any signs of being pro-town, which is worse than pretty much every single other suspect of mine.

[mastin2]

@Everyone: Which of you have played with Empking before? Which of you all KNEW who he was?

I highly respect Empking. The fact that his Pokemon Avatar is Magicarp can tell you just the kind of guy he is: someone you expect to be a weak player, who should be worthless, and then,
WHAM!

He catches you off-guard with just how awesome he is.

He's a great theorist and I've read almost all of his MD work. Even if I didn't necessarily agree with his conclusions, I was always interested in his topics, sparking valuable discussion. More than that, he is one of the most concise scumhunters I've ever seen, but not in a bad way. Not always the most clear scumhunter, but definitely among the most concise. And that's a skill which for a chronic waller is admirable, to say the least.

Empking's essentially the kind of guy I've tried to be: good theorist who loves MD, short, concise, and relatively clear.

I fall a little short on pretty much all of them. :/

[mastin2]

Silver and winger are both town.

If there's one thing I do well, it's town-hunt on certain names extremely well. Silver I get a STRONG town-read from, and winger--while one of my suspects--I currently believe to be town. It's possible winger could fall back into my scumlist, but right now, just not seeing it.

[mastin2]

(Also, for the record, I tend to be NK'd by scum more often for stopping their preferred mislynches, rather than because I'm close to lynching them and am just that dang good of a scumhunter.
I wish I were that good so that they'd kill me out of fear that I'd lynch 'em all, but I historically have not been.

I have, however, stopped multiple mislynches which would've been far easier to go through with me dead, so...yeah.)

Essentially, I'm saying that when I say someone's a mislynch (in this case, Silver, and likely winger as well), they're pretty dang likely to be a mislynch.

[mastin2]

Pine is one of the very few names who I have concluded I can never--and should never again so much as try to--read. That is an incredibly rare honor. There's only one or two other people of Pine's caliber who can do that, and that's off-site. (Ah, Chessmaster Battles in Mafia Games used to be so fun for me, until they got too stressful. The fact that I kept losing to one guy in particular was rather annoying. He was quite my Rival, kinda an ArchNemesis. I vowed to never again read him after one too many failed attempts.
As you can tell by my fondness for that moment, it is incredibly rare to be on the unreadable list by me. Pine's on it. Which is one of the reasons I hope we only need TWO replacements in this game, rather than three*. )

*And hopefully they replace in order, of course. (Look to the original post to see why I'm afraid of there being replacements in this game. If Pine come in, I'd have to rely exclusively on the previous player's posts for that slot.)

[mastin2]

Bad Ape, Bad Ape, Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad!

[mastin2]

When I have more time available.

I am so, SO going to defuse all of these junkwagons and prove why they're not our lynch for today.

As Long As Mastin Lives, Mislynching Becomes Incredibly Difficult. (Hiraki might remember that one of the main reasons Calcifer--nacho and myself--were killed in TWBBS is because we were stopping mislynches from happening.)

[mastin2]

Khan is my alternative wagon.

Reason why's simple.

I currently do not believe winger is scum.
inHim has not provided me any content.
Reya is far too minor a suspect.
Hiraki I am not confident enough in to lynch.
Sky might,

might

be a good lynch, but I'm not completely sold on Sky being scum, yet.

Khan's really the best option.

[mastin2]

What is your read on Brossius again?

Weak town.

Khan's digging himself deeper into a hole with every post he makes. To answer, no, I haven't seen Khan as town, but I intend to meta him in my case, because I still believe this is his scumplay, rather than his townplay, even though I've never actually seen his townplay. There's a chance I'll be proven wrong, of course, but I doubt it. I think this is his scum play. And by checking his town-play, I'll confirm he is scum.

I am not completely sold on Sky/Hiraki because--while I have seen them do a lot of scummy things--there are other things they've said and done which make me doubt that read and actually think town. And while it's fully possible they're scum (in fact, I'd be a bit surprised if they were BOTH town), the fact that I am so doubtful of them being scum means I cannot advocate for their lynches, right now.

[mastin2]

scum often lie.

Walking into the game before anyone else (even the spastic mastin2) and saying "I almost forgot my role. Hyuk Yuk" isn't, and should never be, a town-tell.

Not about something of this nature.

Gorilla is town, and any pro-town player would realize that by now.

[mastin2]

Indeed. I could tell that as well.

Heck, I don't think anyone who is town and read that post carefully wouldn't have come to the conclusion Gorilla-->Town.

[mastin2]

Mastin, why didn't you comment on DK's vote on Khan without much reason?

Wasn't comment-worthy. Deity apparently has trust in me as "the town's best hope of winning". He voted the same person as me. I don't see an issue, there. Other than possibly thinking I'm better than I typically am.

On Khan's 236: There's nothing for me to like in it. Nothing positive. Just more of what is to me Khan blatantly pushing people's buttons in very negative ways. Ways I have quite the amount of trouble seeing as being town.

Spoiler: Small Ramble About Motivation

You know that I like to look at people's intentions and motives, right? It's a different level of scumhunting, neither superior nor inferior to the normal level. When I look at people's posts, sometimes, I can see only town motivation in there. Lots of players this game have done so, for instance. Other times, I can see it both ways, and in those cases, I have to use my judgement as to whether it's scum or town motivated. And yet, other times, I see only scum play.

I see a move which makes no sense as town, but makes perfect sense as scum.

And Khan is doing that with his posts right now. His posts I cannot see the town motivation in. But I can see multiple scum reasons for what he is doing. Quite a lot of reasons, in fact. Some of them I'll keep private, but the rest I'll try to work into my case.

Spoiler: My Case

How is that case with his town game in it going? You say "By checking his townplay" Does that mean you haven't gotten around to it? What is taking you?

Other obligations. Some of it's Real Life, unfortunately; I had six hours of my day stolen away by something unavoidable. Rest of it's not. Said other obligations will not continue to hinder my play here in a couple days ago. At least, not nearly as much. (If all goes well, of course. If all goes poorly, then, uh, I have a lot more time to work on this game than I had intended? ) Meaning, progress is slow. I'm jotting notes down about Khan, and have a few links open and/or bookmarked, but haven't started that section yet. Like I said, regardless, I'll have more time in a few days, but this weekend was full of other obligations (holidays do that, you know). Other, long, sleepless obligations. Sorry. :/

if I said i'd not budge onto a Khan lynch, would you bring up 2nd or 3rd FoS lynches to compromise with the town? If so, who would those be?

Sky and Hiraki, in that order. Like I said, though. I am not nearly sold on them being scum, yet. They have elements of their play, which shows town motivation, which shows town thought processes, that shows town stuff. I'm not sold on them being town--and still think at least one of them will flip scum--but I'm far too doubtful of my reads as of this moment to lynch them.

(Compare to Khan, whose posts I can't see any town motivation in. His method lacks that town mindset I am seeing elsewhere.)

Mastin continues to read to me as 'TL;DR'

Eh? What're you saying, here?
I do short posts? (If true, then a miracle has occured! )
I do too long of posts? (D'oh!)
You think I'm skimming your posts? (Due to being busy. :/)

Kinda ambiguous.

Hope this makes sense. I'm kinda exhausted right now. (Not looking forward to all the work I have yet to do. >_<)

[mastin2]

Pine replaces inHimshallibe. Thanks, Pine!

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-----

Well, so much for me ever being able to read that slot.

Pine's replacing into one of the worst possible positions, because I'm likely going to be waffling back and forth on him all day:

He replaced someone I listed as a suspect, but said suspect never gave any content, and therefore I have no idea how STRONG of a suspect he was compared to the rest of the posters, which means...

...Yeah. I think you get the idea. I won't be able to determine his alignment this game.

At all. :/

[mastin2]

Ah, well. I'll have to look at the bright side.

If Pine's town, he's a dang-good player and if he thinks I'm town as well, then we'll be able to effectively bounce ideas off of each other in here, if we synchronize well enough.

(I'm...uh, still working on trying to find a bright side if Pine is scum. I really can't think of any. )

[mastin2]

If at all possible, I'd like to know what that issue was when the game's over.
(It sparks my curiosity? :/)

[mastin2]

CRAZY THEORY TIME.

Khan's scum.
One of Ranmaru/Scott is scum, but the other's town.
One of Hiraki/Mana/Phoenix is scum.
One of inHim/Reya is scum.

If Ranmaru is scum, Phoenix isn't.

^Note that this is just a crazy theory I just now thought up, so please do not consider it to be my current reads on the game. It's not "crazy" for nothing.

[mastin2]

Stalker.

[mastin2]

Ranmaru: 4 (RisingPhoenix, DeityKabuto, Skyquiem,

Slaxx

) L-4

I wish I could say the same. Deity's good, and I personally believe Phoenix is as well. But Slaxx, you weren't exactly a positive read of mine, nor is Sky.

I think that one of you is scum. Getting half-way to a lynch generally means you've got one scum on there.

It's possible the Ranmaru wagon has no scum on it, but pretty much under only one condition: if Ranmaru is scum.

And even if Ranmaru is scum, that doesn't guarantee that all the people on the wagon are town, either.

...If that makes sense. (Sorry. Caffiene pills haven't fully kicked in, yet, and I'm distracted.)

Essentially, I think one of {Ranmaru, Sky, Slaxx} is scum, but probably not the other two, though if it's Ranmaru, it's POSSIBLE one of the other two is. (I am stating right here and now, though, that Sky and Slaxx aren't both scum. That's pretty obvious, right now.)

I'll be pondering this later when I have more time to spare. (As it is, I shouldn't be posting in here. )

[mastin2]

Mastin, you stated earlier that you had a town-read on Ranamaru, what was it based upon and how has it changed?

Ditto. I need to look into Ranmaru more.

By default, I'll stick to my early read, that being, Ranmaru town. But I'll look into him some more.

[mastin2]

Also.

I dislike the speed of the Ranmaru Wagon. Three Votes In a little over One Page? Seems too fast to be on scum.

-One of {Ranmaru, Sky, Slaxx} (potentially two if one is Ranmaru) is scum. (See above.) I eliminated Phoenix from the list.
-One of {Sky, Scott, Hiraki} (potentially two) is scum.

Khan's scum.
One of Ranmaru/Scott is scum, but the other's town.
One of Hiraki/Mana/Phoenix is scum.
One of inHim/Reya-

Slaxx

is scum.

If Ranmaru is scum, Phoenix isn't.

I think I might be on to something, here. I'll analyze it in my QT later. I really think I might be locking onto the truth, like I'm

this

close to nailing the scumteam, because I have all the information I need to find 'em already. But that it's not quite there.

To put it metaphorically, I've got all the pieces of the puzzle and some are beginning to fall into place, but the rest won't, because they need some sort of shove, something which I currently lack in-thread.

[mastin2]

It's there.

I can

feel

it. The information to nail the entire scumteam is right THERE! In front of my eyes, with those pieces of info I just posted.

But frustratingly, I can't figure out HOW. >_<

[mastin2]

Spoiler: List, Updated

Deity
Gorilla
Mana
Silver

[winger]

RisingPhoenix
Scott
Ranmaru

inHim
Hiraki
Reya/Slaxx
Sky
Khan

Pretty similar. Winger's been bumped UP to "neutral, but not in a suspicious pairing". Phoenix, Scott, and Ranmaru are all bumped down to, "neutral: town-read before, but in a suspicious pairing". If that makes sense. I think that the scumteam's within the 8-9 names posted. And some of them seem quite mutually exclusive to the others. (As in, if some flip scum, the others get bumped off due to them being pretty much impossible scum partners.)

I can figure this out.

[mastin2]

Hold on a sec. I just did a calculation. It's suggesting that Khan and Slaxx are scum. The remaining two are either Phoenix and Scott, or Hiraki and Ranmaru.

I need to check the thread over again with these calculations in mind.

I'm on to something.

[mastin2]

In the process of recompiling my notes. It'll take a while, to group it all together. But I think I stumbled onto a pattern which will reveal the truth.

_________________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Ranmaru: 3 (RisingPhoenix, Skyquiem, Slaxx) L-5
  
  [winger]: 2 (Kublai Khan, gorilla) L-6
  Skyquiem: 2 (Mana_Ku, Ranmaru) L-6
  Kublai Kahn: 1 (mastin2) L-7
  Silver1337: 1 (Hiraki) L-7
  
  
  Not Voting: 4 (inHimshallibe, [winger], Silver1337, Scott Brosious, DeityKabuto)

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

Compiled 'em all. Time to analyze.

[mastin2]

Okay. So it's not final. It's not cemented as strongly as I would like. It makes more assumptions than I am comfortable with.

Which is why I'm going to be checking back on the game in a reread to confirm it all.

But right now?

Khan, Hiraki, Ranmaru, and Slaxx seems like the only scumteam which makes sense in my head, with my notes compiled all together.

[mastin2]

...Which is made slightly more likely (not less) by Slaxx's massive wall against Ranmaru right now. That read as bussing.

[mastin2]

It really does read as bussing to me.

But I am going to be double-
And then triple-checking all of my reads and reasons, soon enough. Just to make sure.

[mastin2]

Refer to where my vote has been placed since page one, Slaxx.

_________________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Ranmaru: 3 (RisingPhoenix, Skyquiem, Slaxx) L-5
  
  [winger]: 2 (Kublai Khan, gorilla) L-6
  Skyquiem: 2 (Mana_Ku, Ranmaru) L-6
  Kublai Kahn: 1 (mastin2) L-7
  Silver1337: 1 (Hiraki) L-7
  
  
  Not Voting: 4 (inHimshallibe, [winger], Silver1337, Scott Brosious, DeityKabuto)

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

Slowly. Blame Slaxx. (Nothing he's done in this game.)

[mastin2]

Yeah, his game finished. (That was the only ongoing game which I wasn't in, by the way. And I wanted to be in it, too, just was busy at the times he needed replacements. )

[mastin2]

Was going to comment on why I said there were four scum (specifically, point out how I rambled about it before), but was beaten to it.

Slaxx's statement in 349 is more or less true.

In other words, not much new.

[mastin2]

Not here for long, but...

Okay. So it's not final. It's not cemented as strongly as I would like. It makes more assumptions than I am comfortable with.

Khan, Hiraki, Ranmaru, and Slaxx seems like the only scumteam which makes sense in my head, with my notes compiled all together.

I'm feeling a little soft in the head right now, so...

How much of your scumreads on the other 3 depend on the (faulty) premise of "Khan is scum"? (i.e. in the event that you do flip town, how much stock should I actually put into your reads?)

Absolutely zero. Works both ways, too.
There's absolutely nothing in my reads which I'm using to make you scum, there's absolutely nothing in my reads which relies on you being scum.

You're just...a separate island as far as I'm concerned, if that makes any sense. You're scum, but the reasons why are isolated. (Not in a way that says, "he can't be scum with these guys". In a way, that says, "He's the only one who's scum for individual reasons." As in, there's not much from any of my scumteam which I see as being individually scummy, but rather, the links and interaction between them is rather condemning.
That said, Khan does have a lot of connections with the other three, connections I'll be pointing out. I didn't use them to form the conclusion for my scumteam, but I very easily could have.

If that makes sense.)

Essentially.

Khan is scum, for many reasons quite obvious in his posts. He's also scum for his connections to other players, but said connections are not the main basis for him being scum.

The other three names have things in their individual posts which might be questionable (but I need to look into it some more to confirm or deny), but their interactions and connections are strongly condemning. And while I did not use Khan's interaction with them to form this conclusion (I felt that'd taint the results), I very easily could have, since after I formed the conclusion, I noticed a lot of little things, little things which created the link.

If that makes sense.

(It's hard to explain. All my reads, make perfect sense to ME! )

[mastin2]

I've been busy. :/

Should be getting better soon enough. Hopefully.

The Khan case got a little side-tracted by me wanting to nail the whole scumteam rather than just a single player.

[mastin2]

@Mastin: How succesful have you been in calling scum teams on D1, Mastin? I fear that your call may not be accurate. I even still am iffy about your Khan read. You stallin?

Of course you fear my call might not be accurate, you're on the freakin' scumlist. My team makes perfect sense to me, but of all the names, Khan's the MOST mafia. I'm not stalling; simply have been preoccupied elsewhere. Slaxx, maybe Gorilla as well, will likely confirm.

My accuracy is fairly decent. As you can obviously tell by the severe lack of nominations for "Best Scumhunter", they're not perfect, though.
Like with all things, I have my highs, I have my lows. But my accuracy in a game like this, I think is pretty high. (Sorry, incoherent, shoulda left fifteen minutes ago, that kind of thing.)

[mastin2]

Effectively.

I'm not an amazing scumhunter. I'm decent, striving for being good. (Actually, striving for being great, but one step at a time, shall we? ) Not great, but decent.

Have to leave now. Be back later.

[mastin2]

It might be more credit than you deserve, Gorilla, but you're still town this game.

Like, confirmed town, practically.

[mastin2]

My, my, I could've

sworn

there was only seventeen pages last night...

Skimmed them all a while ago, but likely need to reread.

Spoiler: Why My Vote Is Not On Ranmaru

1: Strength. Of my scumteam, Ranmaru's currently my weakest read. Granted, that's mainly because I haven't looked into Ranmaru enough, but at the moment, Ranmaru's too weak for me to switch over.
2: Bandwagon.
A: Ranmaru has enough support without me to achieve a lynch. No point in me putting my name there.
B: I'm always a bit paranoid when it comes to large wagons. Granted, this feels like a natural wagon which has built with time (AKA, a wagon most likely on scum) rather than a sudden wagon most likely on town, but it still warrants caution. In this case, me reviewing my reads, double-, and then triple-checking the situation, looking at Ranmaru and the people voting him.
3: Principle. My vote remaining on Khan is a statement from me saying, "I think Ranmaru is scum, but I'm SO sure Khan's scum that I'm still on him, instead!" (See 2A for why I don't see this as an issue. I'm not needed on the Ranmaru lynch.)

'Course, all of these reasons are evident of one thing: I need to effing reread the thread, get started on my scumteam case, and reboot the Khan case in particular.

[mastin2]

Also, Reck's right about one thing.

I have in my reads, that Ranmaru and Phoenix are mutually exclusive alignments. As in, if one flips town, we speedlynch the other now-confirmed-scum.

I happen to disagree with which of them is scum, of course, but he's right, in that they're not both town.

[mastin2]

Or rather, you don't want to make a connection to me.

The connection's already there. The only way the connection would be hidden is by doing VCA, and not noticing my name on you. Which is a horrible way to do VCA. (That is, not accounting for other suspicions which aren't votes.) If that makes sense.

Mastin, just vote Ranmaru. If he's on your hypothetical scumteam, you're playing against your wincon.

Thing is, I'm not confident enough in Ranmaru being scum. I think he is. But compared to Khan--who's ~80%--he's, like, 45%. (Keep in mind, if we assume four scum, it starts as 26.infinitesixes%. Not at 50% like some people's systems do.)

Hence the reread required.

[mastin2]

On my town flip, who is scum?

Not positive. (Hence, the re-read. How many times do I have to say that before you guys stop posting twenty times? ) I did have a {Khan, Slaxx, Scott, Phoenix} scumteam as possible before, but later found something suggesing that team was inaccurate. (Can't recall what, off the top of my head. It's buried in my notes.) If you flipped town, I'd take a serious look at those names again.

[mastin2]

(And, yes. This does mean that regardless of Ranmaru's flip, I'd still think Khan and Slaxx to be scum. Khan's obvious to me, so much so that he'll be in a separate case from the other three. Slaxx is simple process of elimination between certain pairings, and I determined that Slaxx as scum was the only thing which makes sense.

Will be elaborating in my case as to why, of course.)

[mastin2]

Kublai Kahn: 2 (mastin2, Reck) L-6
Scott Brosius: 1 (DeityKabuto) L-7
RisingPhoenix: 2 (Reck, Hiraki) L-6

Since Reck is apparently a double-voter, you can make do with only 2/3!
(

*cough, cough*

)

fuck. fixed in all VC. thanks for pointing it out.

[mastin2]

Silver is town. Newb-town, but town. Though it's not an issue.
With Empking dead, we likely have no backup vig.

[mastin2]

Also, Slaxx (if I'm wrong about you), inHim, and (also if I'm wrong about you) Ranmaru:

I'd encourage you to read my Guide to Playing Well.

Only, instead of "constant wallposting" (which there is, just not as much as the Guide implies), you're doing "constant non-stop barrages of posts which gets five pages in less than 12 hours which makes the thread super-hard to read".

Same basic idea.

[mastin2]

Essentially:

Even if you're making new arguments (which seems to largely not be the case--merely defending the same argument worded in a different way, with the occasional new point), it gets to the point where nobody's reading any of it because it's freakin' difficult to do so, and it becomes anti-town.

Please slow down. Heck, even the mod got tired of it. That should say something.

(Also. Guy who has a title for Wallposting, telling people to stop posting. You KNOW it's bad when that happens. )

[mastin2]

To give you an idea. I skimmed 17-20, which built up in less than 12 hours. (I went to bed at 2:15, come in at noon, and find three pages. In less than an hour, that's doubled to six.)

I've been reading along, but for the most part, I'm seeing things which look like fairly repetitive arguments.

Also, I get ninja'd by an average of five posts in the time it takes me to make a short post like this.

Rapid-fire posting might be pro-town to a point, but once it crosses that point, it becomes anti-town and KILLS the game, which is exactly what you were trying to PREVENT.

[mastin2]

I did. Months ago. When I wrote the guide.

[mastin2]

Also. I know it's an old question, but the new twist is important.

Everyone:

What do you think of Empking, as a player?

Some have made their opinions on the matter quite clear, but a lot were ambiguous about it.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Wagons: Good And Bad

Ranmaru: 5 (RisingPhoenix, Skyquiem, Slaxx, Mana_Ku, inHimshallibe) L-3
^Almost certainly a WinWagon. But needs to wait a while for me to confirm.

Reck: 2 (Kublai Khan, Scott Brosius) L-6
^Failwagon. Probably scumwagon, too.

Skyquiem: 2 (Ranmaru) L-6
^Not a good lynchwagon. At all.

Kublai Kahn: 2 (mastin2,) L-7
^I wish. Maybe if I finish the cases, it'll become a good wagon. It's a winwagon, but I am not a skilled enough player to convince others to go with me.

Scott Brosius: 1 (DeityKabuto) L-7
^While not quite to the levels of failwagon as Reck/Sky, still a bad wagon.

RisingPhoenix: 2 (Reck, Hiraki) L-6
^I cannot support this. Especially not if Ranmaru is scum. I can't see it. I really can't see both Phoenix and Ranmaru as scum.

Not Voting: 2 (Silver1337) L-7
^Ultimate failwagon.

[mastin2]

but I am not a skilled enough player to convince others to go with me.

Speaking of which, I'm considering changing my sig to be
"It's not my job to be

right

convincing, it's my job to be

convincing

right." (Inverting someone else's well-known sig.)

[mastin2]

WHY IS IT IN EVERY GAME WITH MASONS THAT

I

AM THE ONE WHO (helps) OUTS THEM?!? >_<

(By suspecting one of the masons but not the others, too! >_<)

____________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Ranmaru: 3 (RisingPhoenix, Mana_Ku, inHimshallibe) L-5
  
  Reck: 2 (Kublai Khan, Scott Brosius) L-6
  Skyquiem: 2 (Ranmaru) L-6
  Kublai Kahn: 2 (mastin2,) L-7
  Scott Brosius: 1 (DeityKabuto) L-7
  RisingPhoenix: 2 (Reck, Hiraki) L-6
  
  
  Not Voting: 2 (Silver1337) L-7

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[/quote]

[mastin2]

On day one every single time, no less. :/

[mastin2]

You know, after a few games are ending, I'm considering starting an MD thread.

Called specifically, "Masons Claim On Day One". >_<

[mastin2]

Also, for the record.

Third mason doesn't have to claim today, but should claim before both the other masons are dead, since if there's only one left, it's possible scum'd counter-claim.

[mastin2]

Oh, right.

Unvote, Vote: Phoenix

.

Still, though. It's bothering me. The scumteam I proposed with Phoenix in it had a flaw. One I don't remember, but a flaw which needs looking in to.

I'll get back to you all on this, later.

[mastin2]

Reading my notes. I can't find WHY I think Phoenix and Ranmaru are mutually exclusive alignments, but it's in my notes, so I must've thought it at some point.

Also by Ranmaru is Scott. I have them as being mutually exclusive as well, making Scott scum, too. 2/4 down, now that Ranmaru is town. (Though considering that this is all based on notes I don't even remember the reasons for, it'll definitely need confirmation by double and triple checking the thread. )

Pre-posting edit:

Ah, I think I found why I doubted a Khan-Slaxx-Scott-Phoenix scumteam--because I saw something which made me think one of {inHim, Hiraki} was scum, and there couldn't be five scum.

[mastin2]

Nah, Hiraki. At this point, I have no freakin' clue what you are. Gut says scum, logic says gut's tunneling on you just like TWBBS and that you're town. Logic also is trying to work out what scumteam would possibly make sense, working along-side gut, since logic obviously went wrong SOMEWHERE along the line.

(If that makes sense.)

[mastin2]

Vote: Khan

.

[mastin2]

Out of curiousity, how many to lynch? We have three.

[mastin2]

/Will get up a list later.

[mastin2]

Khan's in no current danger of being lynched, Gorilla. He's at L-4. (3 votes, 7 to lynch, correct?) Why don't you put your vote where your mouth is?

[mastin2]

Mod:

Small technicality, but it still bugs me: Empking and Phoenix's roles are both bolded, but Ranmaru's isn't. Could you fix that?
(Also, Empking's name has a "1." next to it. I'm assuming that means "first to die". But the other two deaths should then have a "2." and "3." on them.)

[mastin2]

First off, players I would NOT be willing to ever lynch.

Spoiler: Town

2. xRECKONERx <--Town, obviously.
3. DeityKabuto <--Claim, general attitude.
7. Silver1337 <--Town-read.
10. gorilla <--Town-read.
14. Pine Mana_Ku <--Town-read on Mana.

That narrows down the lynch candidates to this:

1. inHimshallibe
4. Kublai Khan
8. Skyquiem
11. Slaxx Reya Cookiebringer
12. Hiraki
13. Scott Brosius

In those six names, I'm pretty sure we'll find the remaining 2-3 scum. I don't want to spam the thread in here with my brainstorming on WHO the remaining scum are in those names, but I will be doing it.

[mastin2]

Town - Reck, Slaxx, Deity, Gorilla, Pine, Silver, Kublai, Mastin, Hiraki, inHimshallibe, Scott - Scum

So, my guess is:
Reck-Gorilla, names you consider town.
Hiraki-Scott, names you consider scum.
Silver and Khan are null,
Pine is null leaning town,
And I am null leaning scum.

Is that an accurate assessment of your reads?

[mastin2]

Ah. My mistake.

[mastin2]

No.

Silver will not be the lynch today.
And if it were me having my way?
It'd never happen, I say.
Now please wagon Khan, 'kay?

____________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Kublai Khan - 3 (inHim, mastin2, Reck) L-4
  Scott - 1 (Skyquiem) L-6
  Silver1337 - 1 (Hiraki) L-6

With 12 players, it takes

7

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-23 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

I swear, if I have to do this one more time, I'm just putting this--word for word--on my Wiki Page and when asked will just go, "READ MY FREAKIN WIKI!" >_<

Spoiler: Games

If you want a total list of my games, it's on my Main's wiki page, Mastin. Almost all are two years old, since I took a long hiatus. (My recommendation is to view them on the old forum rather than the archives, by replacing the "http://www.mafiascum.net" with the "http://67.222.17.61". It's a little work, but it makes for far better reading.) If you're interested but too lazy, I did compile a list with fixed links, for reading. (But since they're old, I just assumed you don't want 'em.)

My more recent games are also on the Wiki. "New Games", "I'm Back", something like that. It only covers up to TWBBS, since after that, I switched to mastin2 (Ask Pine) and have neglected to put my new games on there.


Alternatively, just look at every single Large Game which is running right now. I'm in every single one. The oldest being Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, as a hydra with Nacho, Calcifer.

I did two games which aren't Large Normals since returning, both Newbies. Newbie 1024 (I met Nacho) and 1048 (I met DarthYoshi).
1024 contains a key defining moment of me as scum: I had the chance to hammer Nacho, but I didn't think I could pull off the win alone. I was 'suspicious' of him, but couldn't do it. I knew that if it was just me, I wouldn't be able to pull off a win by myself.
1048 contains the prototype to my Guide on Cop Play.

I'm most concise when I lock on immediately and don't get emotional. If I don't get solid reads, I wall. If I get emotional, I wall. If I have neither, I tend not to. The newbie game with DarthYoshi is an example of this--I had maybe two or three long walls, the rest of my posts quite short.


My style briefly: since I'm fresh from retirement, I haven't settled down INTO a style, so my play changes with every game. It's honed with off-site experience combined with wisdom of my time away and time spent reading MD along with refining my methods of scumhunting, so my play is slowly improving every game.
There's certainly some things remaining the same throughout all my games, but a lot of what "Mastin2" is hasn't been defined, yet, because I'm still trying to work that out, myself.

General trends--Scum: Start out calm, cool, and logical, generally seen as town. I put myself into my town meta, and it works beautifully. (However, I often am trapped--boxed in--by it, locking into an action which I feel I cannot back out of as scum more often than I do as town.) Initially. Then I freak out. The facade cracks; my mask disappears when emotions start to pour in--for instance, insulting me certain ways makes me sensitive as scum, whereas when I'm town, it doesn't bother me. (I dunno why.)

Town: Impulsive, with certain compulsions. I follow feelings far more than I follow my head, doing whatever I think I should in order to win. I take a lot of risks that aren't exactly optimal play. While I do gambit as scum, I much prefer gambitting as town. I'm prone to overconfidence (related to confirmation bias tendencies and reverse-confirmation-bias), and I am slow to accept being wrong. That's pretty much as much as I know about my town meta.

Third party: Only once. The Large "Normal" run by Jebus, with Llamafluff as the backup mod. I was a Lyncher, outed Day One by a JOAT who Rolecopped me.
I truthfully told the town everything--my true target, what I was planning on doing, how I was planning on winning, everything. And proceeded to try and legitimately scumhunt...but people didn't believe me. We fought for 30 pages. I got distracted, emotional, stopped scumhunting and worked on defense. It didn't work; I got lynched Day One. When the game ended, I grumbled an "I told you so!" about my play having town's interests in mind.
Summary: I try to play identical to town, but when attacked, I react exactly as scum, the alignment acting as a bridge between the two sides, ironically.

Other: I'm fond of meta. Both for myself, and others when I have the time. I know, bad habit. 'Been trying to get rid of it in my play, but it keeps coming back. 'Working theory: I am a sentimental guy who ponders the past, seeing what he's done well and what he's...'not done well'.

I'm better at reading other's meta (when I research it enough) than mine. I Wall, always have, and--despite efforts to get rid of them--likely always will. It used to be that if I didn't wall, I was lethargic or dangerously close. AKA, lazily lurked around somehow managing to be more anti-town than walling. (As both alignments.) Either way, greatly anti-town, and have tried to stop that from being me again. I was a VI, who has become more wise (though not good >_<) with experience.
(Also, I evolved over time to become someone who tends to get strong reads, though it became tunneling often.)


I'm also quite fond of MD, if you haven't noticed. Love theory a lot, but suck at putting theory into practice, especially as a player.


Overall Summary: I'm a messed-up guy.

The person in this game most likely a Mastin Expert would be Pine--ask him and he'll challenge anything in here he sees as wrong.

[mastin2]

This is not the first time someone's asked me for my meta recently.

[mastin2]

I'm kinda guessing here. But are the votes something like four for Khan, three for Scott, and one or two *coughcoughdeityonmecoughcough* stray?

[mastin2]

Blood vendetta against him? >_<
(I like Pine. He's a good player. :/)

[mastin2]

Oh?

Really?

[mastin2]

I would like to take this opportunity to openly claim my full role.

That is not "might".
That is "will".

What in there implies "not sure, but might"?

I see, "okay, def claiming role".

[mastin2]

Just imagine we're in our underwear?

[mastin2]

Here's my take on the game:
We seem to want to do one of two things.
1: Since Khan is away, we wagon someone else. Scott seems to be the popular choice. I personally think the wagon is junk, a poor man's excuse for a secondary lynch, a lynch to get behind as an excuse due to not wanting to lynch someone who's V/LA.
2: Wait for Khan to return. In, what, four days? >_< Lynch him then, when he can defend himself.
I'm kinda wondering, what's the point in waiting if we're just going to lynch him, anyway?

Alright, so theoretically, he could be some amazing role which has a gamebreaking result.

But I seriously am wondering why we want to wait and/or wagon someone else. It seems so pointless.

See what I'm getting at?

[mastin2]

Ah, funny, how people seem to do posting storms at the times I have the least amount of access...

My last read on inHim was town. Obviously, this read is ancient, so I need to review things, but needless to say, he's not the ideal wagon. The shift from Khan/Scott to him likely contains 1-2 scum. My reads don't seem to be wrong.

That is, our three scum are in {Hiraki, Sky, Slaxx, Scott, inHim, Khan}.

Looks like I'll have to work some more figuring this mess out. I feel like I'm right.

Like those six contain the scum, for sure. That Reck, Silver, Gorilla, and Pine are all town.

Like some of those names are mutually exclusive, and when one flips one alignment, the other will flip the opposite, guaranteed.

But I've honestly lost track of the teams. Lost my thought process as to which team is possible, which team makes the most sense.

[mastin2]

Under 500 words?

Haven't I been doing that the entire game?

Vote Count

• inHimshallibe - 5 (Skyquiem, Slaxx, xRECKONERx, DeityKabuto, Silver1337) L-2
  Kublai Khan - 2 (mastin2, Scott Brosius) L-5
  Scott Brosius - 1 (gorilla) L-6
  Skyquiem - 1 (Hiraki) L-6
  Silver1337 - 1 (inHimshallibe) L-6
  
  Not Voting - 2 (Kublai Khan, Mana_Ku)
  

With 12 players, it takes

7

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-23 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

Alright.

Possible, but that'll largely delay me.

By a huge effing amount.

Since I not only have to build the case and reasons,
But ALSO then recondense it into something more concise.

It'll get done.

[mastin2]

Scott's possible scum.

Khan's confirmed scum.

That's why.

[mastin2]

Promised cases that never appear are a Mastinscum hallmark

What.
No, seriously.
What.

The.

HECK.

Pine, we just finished a game together where I never delivered promised content and flipped town.

There's also [REDACTED - Ongoing], where I was [REDACTED] before [REDACTED] and I ended up [REDACTED].

And your one sample comes from [REDACTED - Ongoing] where I actually DID [REDACTED], contrary to [REDACTED].

Oh, and obviously, there's also [REDACTED - Ongoing], where I was [REDACTED] with [REDACTED] in which I ambitiously [REDACTED] but never followed through with all of [REDACTED].

[mastin2]

Put bluntly:

Real Life interferred.

This was across games, as proven easily by looking at a game which just ended along with [REDACTED - Ongoing], among others.

So, I'm either lying scum in all of my games (even the ones where I already flipped!), or, y'know, I was ACTUALLY BUSY.

[mastin2]

Sorry, you're being a little too vague there, Slaxx, so can't exactly defend against that.

[mastin2]

Case pending. Since I just finished a Real-Life project which ate well over fifty hours of my time (in which I had to pull multiple [consecutive!] all-nighters to finish, by the way), I obviously haven't worked on this game that much, and in fact have been lacking in all my games. It'll get done, though, now that I have literally nothing stopping me from working on Mafia Games for a good solid 48 hours. (...You do realize that's how long it takes me to build a basic case, right? Yet alone, a more advanced one. And I can guarantee it's probably closer to 96 to get an abridged case which is both clear&concise.)

[mastin2]

Conciseness tends to be directly tied to clarity. If I can get things clear, I can make them concise. If I can't, well, I theoretically could make it concise, but not without it being gibberish.

Problem is, I suck at communication, so Clarity is the thing I have struggled with the most in my games.

[mastin2]

So...Khan...you think I'm town? That what I'm seeing from your posts?

[mastin2]

(Trust me on this. Will explain.)

[mastin2]

Alright.

Confirm Vote: Khan

.

One of {Khan, Mastin} is scum, due to Phoenix's attitude towards their fight.

(Too lazy to go figure out how many people said that, but I do believe it was more than one. And I happen to agree.)

I don't think you're scum at the moment.

Know what that is?

That's a scumclaim.

[mastin2]

I was totally ignoring the khan/mastin spat on day 1, not going to lie - I had no intention to pay attention to it. RP called it a waste of time, though, which probably means one of them is scum

One.
Two.
I'm obviously a third.

Not going to go through all the pages since day start to see if there's any more. But the point is, it was a Valid Point.

And, hey. Time to make this official.

If you aren't voting either Khan or myself, you are scum.

[mastin2]

well I went the route of insomnia

Reck's list is a good list, silver is (probably) town so cross him off for today

I was totally ignoring the khan/mastin spat on day 1, not going to lie - I had no intention to pay attention to it. RP called it a waste of time, though, which probably means one of them is scum

re-reading says to me I would most be willing to wagon khan, scott, or mana(pine) off that list

Now that Khan is back, Gorilla, I expect you to get your vote off of the dead Scottwagon and onto either me, or him.

Vote Count

• inHimshallibe - 4 (Slaxx, xRECKONERx, Silver1337, Kublai Khan) L-3
  Kublai Khan - 4 (mastin2, Scott Brosius, DeityKabuto, inHim) L-3
  Scott Brosius - 1 (gorilla) L-6
  Skyquiem - 1 (Hiraki) L-6
  mastin2 - 2 (Skyquiem, Pine) L-5
  Not Voting - 0 ( )
  

With 12 players, it takes

7

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-23 18:39:00)

[mastin2]

And we're voting Kangaskan... because??

-MH

^ For the record, look at this closely, when Khan flips scum.

[mastin2]

Hiraki:

I know you think Silver's scum. But refresh my memory--who else do you think is scum?

To add, I think Slaxx asked who the other two scum are.

Not really sure, but probably Skyquiem and Mana_Ku.

This still accurate?

Voting Khan is stupid and pointless, he's V/LA therefore there will be no defence or reaction from him to assess, to top that of he's likely town.

Sky's slot sure is defending Khan a lot.

The Khan wagon peaked at

Kublai Khan - 3 (inHim, mastin2, Reck) L-4

Before the Scott counterwagon began. Sky was in it, then Slaxx (who I've called scum with Khan, mind you) and then inHim joined it. Scott joined the Khan wagon after inHim left, and Sky left the Scott wagon.

town
mastin2/khan

scum
mastin2/khan

And this is best settled today. One scum between us. Make it official, and get rid of one of us. Him or me. Doesn't matter; it confirms the other as scum.

Slaxx, if you believe this, you should vote one of us.

VOTE: scott

I don't have much of the way in reassons here, it's kinda process of elims + khan not being here but hey I'll move my vote to khan as soon as he's actually here to respond. in the meantime, might as well hear from someone else instead of sitting on my hands.

I'm holding you to your word on this, Gorilla. Vote Khan, or me. Don't you dare vote anyone else.

Both the Khan and Scott wagons peaked at three. Until Sky rejoined the Scott wagon, making it lead at four.

inHim's move to Silver brought it back down to three.

Kubli scum=IHSB town

Kubli town=IHSB scum

discuss.

So.

Mastinscum = Kublaitown = IHSBscum
Mastintown = Kublaiscum = IHSBtown

Yes/No?

And here's where *Beep* hits the fan. People suddenly switch interest from Khan/Myself/Scott, to inHim and the wagon forms pretty instantaneously after that. Mesthinks that people didn't want to be on Khan/Scott, and therefore, we were actually on to something, and they took the opportunity to get off when it presented itself.

More reason Slaxx needs to be on Khan if Slaxx is town.

Sky distracts Slaxx. Sensing a pattern, here?

Yeah. Additionally, someone brought up the possibility of only three scum, earlier, which Slaxx apparently ignores on his response.

Rapid fire votes, which continue to grow. Instantaneously, people forget all about Scott, Khan, heck, even myself. Deity joins the party, putting inHim as the undisputed lead wagon, with four votes and the other two wagons faded to two and one votes.

My guess is one of Mastin/KK is scum. 99% Khanscum. Thus I think Mastin is town.

And I'll lock Scott into this.

Silver puts inHim at L-2.

My last read on inHim was town. Obviously, this read is ancient, so I need to review things, but needless to say, he's not the ideal wagon. The shift from Khan/Scott to him likely contains 1-2 scum.

And I stand by this as well.

[mastin2]

inHimshallibe - 3( Slaxx, xRECKONERx, Silver1337) L-4
Kublai Khan - 4 (mastin2, Scott Brosius, DeityKabuto, inHim) L-3
mastin2 - 1 (Skyquiem) L-7

Sky once again gets off of the lead wagon, by the way. Khan once again leads,
But we can't have that, now, can we?
APPARENTLY NOT.

Vote: inHimshallibe
Scum.

Khan votes the wagon with the most support, in a junky post. Convenient, eh?

Pine's stance was correct, and this (briefly) put Khan at L-2, the highest his wagon has ever been.

(And add Mafia 96 to the list of games where scum-Mastin keeps promising a case, but never delivers it.)

Leaves open the possibility of me being scum, while...

can count on the support mastin2 (convincing him to move his vote off me was a Herculean task, so why not go along with the flow and blame mastin2 for the mislynch later?).

Effectively calling me town.

Still not fully caught up, but I've got a strong sense in my gut that {mastin, KK} is not Town vs Town. KK, since return, is being more helpful and forthright.

Unvote
Vote: Mastin

And this solidifies Pine as town, by the way. Add him to the list of people who think KhanVMe is not townVtown. He happens to have chosen the wrong guy, but at least he's voting one of us.

You've been evasive, unhelpful, spammy, dense, thick-headed, wrong, wrong, wrong, short-sighted, scatterbrained, malicious, slanderous, obtuse, dim, etc..
But you're not on my scumlist atm.

Let's see, attempts to push my buttons by using personal insults? Check. (This was a Khan trademark: trying to get me emotional, since emotional-Mastin is worthless.) Leaving me open as possible scum? Check. Calling me town, despite the fact that there is a TON of evidence pointing to one of us two being scum? Check, oh so check.

The Khan wagon lost the momentum it should have had.

Well, I guess I was wrong and I can add "simple-minded" to the list of things you are. Probably "pathetic" too.

Adds more insults, likely to try and provoke my emotions. (Again, mind you, this is one of the reasons Khan won both of our previous spars--because he got me emotional, and when I got emotional, he looked like a voice of reason.)

Additionally, Khan strawmans the argument:

So all I have to do is post one example of multiple people being wrong about something and you'll unvote, right?

The point is, multiple people believe Khan and I contains one scum. And I'm going to make DANG sure that those who have expressed said opinion,

follow that through

. No inHim distractions. No ScottBro excuses.

All the people who said that {Khan, Mastin} contains one scum are to follow through with it,

NOW

, or be called scum!

[mastin2]

First, you don't understand the meaning of the word strawman.

Attacking an argument at its weakest point, essentially. Degrading an argument into something easier to counter. Reducing something to be easier to attack. I suck at explaining the words for it (I hate Poor Communication Skills >_<), but I do know what it is, even if my way of explaining it sounds inaccurate.

Second, WTF? Was that your plan this whole game? Continually antagonize me by calling me scum until you get enough people to say "well, they can't be scum together", then you jump into action and say "Ah-HA! If we're not scum together, then Khan must be scum alone!"?

Another strawman, here. What is that, your signature tactic? There are multiple things that contribute to it.
1: Tone.
2: Interactions.
3: RisingPhoenix specifically stating that the argument between us wasn't that important.

And those are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. No single thing makes it so that youVme is not townVtown. It's everything put together to show how it's painfully obvious.

Third, what happens when I flip town?

You won't. But IF (and I repeat, this is a big "if") you did, I'd take full responsibility for it and accept the consequences of my misread.

[mastin2]

I'm not letting Khan get away.

Know how when I meta someone, I tend to only use two games as each alignment, max?

Not this time.

I'm going to do Every. Single. One. Of Khan's Games. If it takes me 48 hours of work, I don't care. I'll get it done.

[mastin2]

...Yeah, that was definitely the hammer.

Ah, well. Three nights to prove Khan's scum. I can do that. All-nighters for every single one of said nights, but it can be done.

[mastin2]

Twenty-four games. Light Reading. This'll be fun.

[mastin2]

(Doing them--with two exceptions [guess ]--chronologically, since to be fair to Khan, games more recent will be a better reflection of his posting style than games he did two years ago.)

[mastin2]

Hey, Khan, was 691 actually your first game? >_<
(Or was that 648--and if so, then why is 648 listed after 691?)

[mastin2]

It should be quite obvious that I'm a VT.

Vote: Mastin2

.

Someone hammer me. And we lynch the Khan Man tomorrow.

[mastin2]

Lynch Kublai Khan tomorrow.

It's common effing sense. (And, yeah, I'm V/LA, but fortunately currently have access.)

One of us has to be scum.

You lynch me, Khan goes tomorrow.

Simple as that.

No point in arguing against my lynch. 50% chance of me being scum is too large for the town to pass up. And my town flip will confirm Khan as scum 100%.

[mastin2]

Don't you DARE move your vote, Deity. People already have lingering doubts that you're town (even though you are), and right now, if anyone moves their vote off of me, it's effectively a scumclaim.

[mastin2]

Hey, Slaxx.

When I flip town, what's your read then?

Answer. Quickly.

[mastin2]

Obviously, you'll think that Deity is town (since he stopped the kill on me), and know that I am (via my death).

I'm talking about other than that. About Khan.
About the fourth scum.

Explain to me right now what will happen.

[mastin2]

For the record, nine alive tomorrow with 3 of them being scum means that tomorrow is the day before lylo. Khan's a free 'mis'lynch. Even if he's town (he's not), he needs to die tomorrow, because let's face it:
There's no way he'll ever be considered completely town.
In other words, IF he was town, he'd ALWAYS be right there, on the verge of being lynched, potentially costing the town the game. Hence, he should die tomorrow.
He won't flip town, but still. He needs to die.

IF he was town, that'd put the day after tomorrow at 3/7 being scum. (Though again, helpful hint: it won't. It'll be 2/7.)

(And for the record, I'd probably think that any additional PR claim [we should massclaim tomorrow, I agree--just don't let that stop you from lynching Khan once all claims are out] would be scum.)

Preview-Edit:

Slaxx is so scum.

[mastin2]

Don't you DARE move your vote, Deity. People already have lingering doubts that you're town (even though you are), and right now,

if anyone moves their vote off of me,

it's effectively a scumclaim

.

unvote

This game. Too effing easy. Slaxx, Khan, both scum. Makes perfect sense. If only I could find that fourth.

[mastin2]

And if you think Slaxx is scum just because of that, then you need to do an ISO of me, with Control+F'ing his name. This?
Was just the final push off of the edge I needed to convince me I'm right.

[mastin2]

Let me put it bluntly:
Slaxx unvoted me.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PRO-TOWN REASON TO UNVOTE ME.

NONE

.

What, you think scum are going to hammer me?
Ha, ha, heck no.

No. There's no reason to get off of my wagon. ABSOLUTELY NONE.

Slaxx getting off of my wagon is all the proof I need that he is scum, with Khan.

[mastin2]

So because you said something was a scum claim, it must be scum. OHKAY. Maybe I want to reread the game before we blow through 2 more lynches (assuming a town flip from you)?

Refer to the above.

You, sir, just scumclaimed, and it's too late to take it back, now.

Vote Count

• silver1337 - 1 (Hiraki)
  Kublai Khan - 1 (Scott)
  mastin2 - 3 (Reck, DeityKabuto, Kublai Khan, mastin2)
  

With 11 players, it takes

6

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-07-07 00:00:00)

[mastin2]

My old notes are awesome. They contain some amazing insights which I've since forgotten.
Among them?
Things like the scumteam being,
Khan, Slaxx, Scott, Phoenix.
{Slaxx, inHim} being mutually exclusive alignments. (Hint: inHim flipped town.)
(A possible alternative to Scott would be Hiraki, but I doubt that.)

[mastin2]

RisingPhoenix: 8 (Reck, Hiraki, mastin2, Slaxx, Ranmaru, inHimshallibe, Skyquiem, RisingPhoenix)

Hint: There needs to be another scum in here.
It's almost certainly not Reck.
It's not Ranmaru. (Flipped BG.)
It's not inHim. (Flipped tracker.)
It's not Phoenix. (Phoenix is scum, yes. But I said, "ANOTHER" scum in there. As in, there's more than one.)
It's doubtfully Hiraki. (Theoretically possible, but doubtful.)
And that leaves?
Sky and Slaxx.

Guess what?
My old notes also say {Slaxx, Sky} are mutually exclusive, too.

[mastin2]

YEah, and your old notes also had me bussing Ranmaru. You can call half the game scum and be right quite a bit ya know.

Yeah. And?

You think your bussing makes you so town?

It didn't.

I've been narrowing down the scumteam, with things such as Interactions,

Motive

, Tone, and General Overall Play.

You fit perfectly, and have since the beginning. (So does Khan.)


For instance, like I said. THERE IS NO TOWN MOTIVATION TO HAVE UNVOTED ME.

[mastin2]

You just baffle me sometimes.

And maybe that's why you tried to kill me, eh? Because I'm a wildcard, whose thought process is very difficult to track down. It would not surprise me to learn that this situation is EXACTLY the thing which you feared, hence, the kill on me.

I read the end of Day One. Multiple times. I saw nothing from your interactions which said "Slaxx is town". No, I got the distinct impression of, "Slaxx is bussing Phoenix."

Hey, town. Want me to make a case against Slaxx* before the day ends with my lynch? (Warning: 90% chance I will not finish before I travel back home. I'm on LA right now, due to the V. But after that, I have no other obligations to get in the way.) Khan tomorrow, Slaxx the day after, work from three scum flips to figure out the fourth. It can happen.

*This is more vital than a case on Khan, since people already believe one of {Khan, mastin2} is scum. My flip condemns Khan tomorrow. Most people here, however, think Slaxx is town. And it's my job to convince you otherwise.

[mastin2]

Mastin, I unvoted, does that make me scum?

No, it makes you a (no offense intended) moron. You're confirmed town.

We're lynching mastin2 today

Make it happen. No hesitation. NO EFFING UNVOTING ME.

/Will get to the case.

But honestly, this should be obvious. I wasn't killed last night for no reason. I was right, about something, about something which ticked the scum off. (Hint: the people who've reacted negatively to this are Khan and Slaxx. Them being quite angry makes sense for them NK'ing me.)

[mastin2]

Gorilla is town.

Khan and Slaxx are (quite frankly) panicking scum. It's bleeding off of their Tone.

Also, Sky is town. For putting me back to L-2. (Was at L-1, Slaxx and Deity unvoted, therefore, L-3, plus Sky = L-2.)

Which in the {Sky, Slaxx} mutually exclusive pairing is more reason to see Slaxx as scum.

[mastin2]

2. xRECKONERx <--Town. (General play, gambit on day one, etcetera.)
3. DeityKabuto <--Confirmed-town.
4. Kublai Khan <--Scum.
6. mastin2 <--

Today's Lynch

7. Silver1337 <--Null.
8. Skyquiem <--Town. (Mutually exclusive to Slaxx, voting me, stuff like that.)
10. gorilla <--Town. (Noticing the Phoenix thing between {Khan, mastin2}, his first post, overall attitude, etcetera.)
11. Slaxx Reya Cookiebringer <--Scum. (Case being built.)
12. Hiraki <--Null.
13. Scott Brosius <--Scum-lean. (Current # 3.)
14. Pine Mana_Ku <--Town. (General attitude seems pro-town. Lacks condemning interactions with anyone else.)

[mastin2]

Khan.

I'll work on the Case until I'm lynched.

[mastin2]

EditBWOP:

On The Slaxx case, that is.
The Khan case should be clear as day when I flip town, pretty much self-evident.

[mastin2]

Can you explain Skyquiem town after that?

I'm not really seeing that.

Sky voted me. Did so in a logical manner which seemed pro-town. Tone, Motive, both look like they're coming from town.

Contrast Khan. Who voted me in an opportunistic way. Who then continued to flail on about me being scum, an essential reversal on his opinion yesterday. His Motive is to get me dead, as quickly as possible. His Tone is scum, his Motive is from a scum viewpoint, he bleeds off scum in his every post.

It's kinda like the difference between Deity's unvote of me and Slaxx's unvote of me. Deity's was pro-town (albeit not very smart town), Slaxx's was anti-town.

[mastin2]

Please don't. There's a very real chance it's townVtown, and I don't want the thread to have further clutter, burying what I've said. It's amazing, how many towns will do rereads, but stop reading after the first five or ten pages, and skip to the last five or so pages--and if my reads aren't in there, they'll most likely be forgotten.

[mastin2]

About dang time.

I'm happy with my play this game--I correctly called the scumteam, technically. (Just had an extra name in there. ) {Khan, RP, Scott} on day one.

Not the best game (I technically got that before Ranmaru was proven town, but it wasn't actively believed until after that), but still, overall pretty good.

[mastin2]

And my reason for thinking Khan's scum isn't my RVote's reason. He's literally living breathing scum in every post, acting exactly the way I remember him as scum. The one difference is that now, I'm wiser and more experienced and know better than to fall into his trap. With a N0, this is how things go:

Spoiler: Typical Scum Dialog

Scum 1: Hi, all! *talks about experience levels* *talks about who they know and don't know*. What should be do?
Scum 2: Hi, *scum1*! *maybe gives own experience*. I know *others*, too! I think we should kill *names*. (Yes, names. Scum never select a single name alone.)
Scum 1: Sounds good to me, though I'd go with *name*.
Scum 3: *lists the people in the town* *begins to list Scum3's experience with all the names* *asks for buddies' opinions on names they didn't list as kill options*, *begins to formulate a plan for day actions*.
Scum 4: I agree. *furthers plan for day actions*. *Gives feedback on who to kill, based on their plan for dayplay*. *Thinks about who to send FOR the kill*.
Scum 1: Agreed.
Scum 2: Not quite happy about *small detail in the plan*, but otherwise, I'm fine with that.
Scum 3: Then we're in agreement.
Scum 4: Let's do this!

If you couldn't tell, I'm generally portraying Scum 1 as semi-newbish (but possibly with some experience--probably off-site, but potentially one or two games on-site), Scum 2 as relatively new but somewhat experienced, and Scums 3&4 as experienced. Khan in this situation as either 3 or 4 would essentially do what he did in Emerald City:

*If a previous scum player brought up the option of killing mastin*. "I wouldn't be afraid of him. He's a pushover if you know how to touch on his buttons. He's arrogant and has an easily exploitable ego. I've done it before. He's not a threat to us."

Why do I think this is what Khan did?

His play's scarily similar to Emerald City, for starters. But there's more to it. Like I said, I'm willing to explain in a wall, but it'd be a long wall.

How much experience do you have with Mastin? I've played a couple of games (none recent) with him. I find that he's usually an easy-lynch because of his stubborness, but his mega walls kill most of the fun that mafia games bring me.

So, my short kill-list... I'm happy with: Empking, Hiraki, inHIMshallibe, or mastin2.

Also, since this game had an abnormally long night, the scum had more time to talk than normal, to better prepare themselves for the day. They knew what they were doing, and all members certainly had a chance to chime in.

Khan's scum.
One of Ranmaru/Scott is scum, but the other's town.
One of Hiraki/Mana/Phoenix is scum.
If Ranmaru is scum, Phoenix isn't.

It's suggesting that Khan

and Slaxx

are scum. The remaining two are either

Phoenix and Scott

, or Hiraki and Ranmaru.

Sometimes, it's scary how well I predict things.

[mastin2]

Well, yeah, I was assuming four scum rather than three. You made perfect sense in a four-scum game as being scum. In a three-scum game, though, not so much.

[mastin2]

There's a reason I'm only calling it a "good" game and not a "great" game. (Yes, you can, did, and are right. )

[mastin2]

I don't remember. If you look through my QT (link posted in the dead QT), you might get a better idea. (As Khan said, a lot of the early-thoughts were scary-good. )