Large Normal 132: Desert Mafia (Over!)

[RisingPhoenix]

Failing to do so would only give Ranmaru a reason to vote me.

You should vote Ranmaru then
Otherwise I'll have a reason to vote you.

... See where I'm going?

Uh, voting a confirmed townie not a good idea genius.

context clues, learn to see them.

_________________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Scott Brosius: 3 (Hiraki, Kublai Kahn, Skyquiem) L-5
  
  Skyquiem: 2 (Scott Brosius, Mana_Ku) L-6
  gorilla: 1 (Ranmaru) L-7
  Ranmaru: 1 (RisingPhoenix) L-7
  Kublai Kahn: 1 (mastin2) L-7
  Silver1337: 1 (DeityKabuto) L-7
  
  Not Voting: 5 (inHimshallibe, [winger], Silver1337, gorilla, Reya Cookiebringer)

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[Ranmaru]

Khan isn't scum like Mastin says. Dk's early claim was really bad. Sky's first head is taking quite a while to post to "reveal" themselves. Gorilla's a parrot. The pokemon thing was just a joke. That is my opinion so far. I'm against pl's. Town's a bit slow activity wise.

First is unexplained, second and third are IioA, fourth as such can be called hypocrisy, fifth and seventh is fluff, sixth is completely null.

See how easy it is to take any post and call it whatever you want?

Let's use the same subjects: My turn.

I think you're coasting on asking others to contribute while not providing any contribution of your own.

I think the Mastin vs Khan debate is a waste of space; Under the precept Mastin has at least an ounce of grey matter his "Khan was scum, thus he is scum" push is a joke, Kublai pushing a PL on Mastin is, frankly, understeadable (walls are anti-town, Mastin is unable to summarize thought patterns, thus Mastin is anti-town), but I wouldn't take that as a basis to advocate a lynch on Mastin, at least until day 2 or 3 and we notice he has YET to post anything readable. Regardless there's a fairly acceptable chance that Emp would've shot in Mastin's direction given the latter's known playstyle. Can anyone confirm or deny Empking's N0 vig policies? All this to say, lynching Mastin day 1 would be IMO poor play.

I think DK dug his own grave when he asked day 1 if he should claim, as that was a very clear indication that he had a PR he thought he should share with the class. Plays surrounding the policy of claiming said PR could have been handled better (supposing he hadn't claim, there'd have been a chance for scum to wifom themselves into thinking he'll be doc protected as the one outed role). People saying "the claim was terrible" is NOT people posting content. We know it was, get over it.

The debate surrounding the identity of hydras is a stance. Considering they got the role after forming the hydra, saying they want to hide their scum meta is IMO paranoia. It's just as likely they want to hide their identity to be able to play without having to fear having a bullet put through their skull because their name begins with Gl and ends with ork and they're thus qualified as giant threats. Heck, "Best Scum Performance" and "Best Third Party" winners and nominees systematically get giant target drawn on their back because they're "dangerous", so the town will lynch them over the smallest technicality. Similarly, strong town players getting NKed instantly because they don't suck have a damn legit reason to want to hydra: They're here to play a game, not speculate day 1 then get shot before the real thing is on. I think the people pushing for a head claim are paranoid. Not town, not scum, just paranoid.

Gorilla being a parrot is akin to you being a "what do you think about this thing I haven't addressed?", except he sounds more legitimate than you do, because at least he's putting an idea on the table, even if it's borrowed.


I'll give you the town is slow, since you're at what, L-6?

Yes I didn't explain it because I was waiting on Mastin's 'case' on him. I don't want his answer tainted by me. (Even though I have been telling him his reasons for ScumKhan = Null anyways). I didn't have much else to talk about. I mean, the town isn't as full force as one would expect. The best suspects we can get is Scott and Silver? I admit my suspicion of Gorilla is minor as well, but I'm trying to do what I can. Although I have already given my thoughts on Scott and Silver previously.

I usually try to ask questions and always think that asking about people's reads are the most important to ask about, so I usually do that and drop a few names to get discussion going. I'm not coasting though. I think your push on me is legit, and Sky's points on me were legit, yet Gorilla's were not in my pov.

I'm currently null on Mastin. I see alot of theory crafting and not as much scumhunting. I can symphathize with his unorganized manner because I myself can't organize well, which is why I try to read his walls because if you don't even TRY to read his walls, you yourself are being anti-town because you shut yourself down from allowing yourself to work with Mastin just because he posts long posts. Big deal. I'm against a pl on him though. (On anyone) I would rather lynch scum. Nah I don't know Emp's NO vig techniques.

Fair enough.

Fair enough. I just find it a bit annoying that they ask me for links to my games when I can't even check their own meta, you know? I think if they are good players trying to hide from being nk'd for their popularity, would SACRIFICE the right to ask for meta. Or rather I think they should. I'm not paranoid about them at all, because I'm fine with just observing their in-game actions.

I disagree.

My only suspects are Gorilla and Hiraki. I don't like that Hiraki is trying to cock block my play. Everyone else I just don't remember at the moment (meaning that is a sign they should post more) or aren't a worry to me.

That isn't my fault.

[Ranmaru]

Failing to do so would only give Ranmaru a reason to vote me.

You should vote Ranmaru then
Otherwise I'll have a reason to vote you.

... See where I'm going?

Uh, voting a confirmed townie not a good idea genius.

context clues, learn to see them.

I just don't think it's right that you vote him to vote others. Instead, why not ask him WHY he is voting PlayerX instead of me?

[DeityKabuto]

@RisingPhoenix

I didn't realize my claim would be beneficial to the scum up until now, but I will protect D2 whoever I feel helps the town the most.

[Hiraki]

Criticizing one's play = Scum

Wowza.

Thank god your meta reeks of town play here.

Unvote, Vote: RisingPhoneix

[Ranmaru]

Expand further on that, Hiraki. Who's play was RP criticizing, and how does that make him scum?

[Hiraki]

That first part was talking about you.

RisingPhoneix is who I need to make sure dies.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Empking Killing Me?

People seem to be under the mistaken impression that Empking would vig me for Walling.

To my knowledge, Empking's only been in my games a couple times, and if memory serves, never had an issue with me. For instance, he thought Calcifer (me and Nacho, hydra'ing) was scum since Day One in Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, later confirmed by his cop result, but it was not because of anti-town play. (He simply thought we were scum for some reasons I don't remember, and was right. Guy's a good scumhunter, far more so than he's ever given credit for.)

Additionally, as mentioned, I walled a lot less when hydra'ing. If anything, Empking's impression of me would be rather positive, since he'd probably also be familiar with my extensive MD work, knowing that I'm not the VI I used to be.

The only reason Empking would really have to vig me is if he thought I was too good of a player as scum, due to how well I reacted when I was caught scum. (It was mainly me posting during that period of time--I got Parama lynched over ourselves, and put up a valiant effort after that, though we still got quicklynched.) In other words, because he might think I'm too GOOD, rather than too bad.

I do not intend to constantly wall this game. Rather, to be as clear and concise as possible.

Spoiler: On Walling With Khan

If I fall into the trap of walling with Khan, Khan'll win the debate, guaranteed. It happened before. It ALMOST happened TWICE! (I was forced to claim in 742 because Khan was--quite simply--out-playing me and doing a better job of pushing me as scum. My claim was more believable than his, and that's the only reason I won: because of my role, rather than my play.) Khan's posts give off the vibe, of intentionally luring me in. He's got his hand out and is curving the four fingers at me, telling me, "come on and try me". He's trying to show my play as weak, strawman my points, trying to degrade my scumhunting, and it serves two purposes. 1: Convince the town that I am a deranged lunatic who has no clue what he's talking about, while also 2: Trying to intentionally push the buttons which manipulated me before, push the buttons which made me go berserk and wall every post. And if he accomplished #2, he'd also further strengthen #1, by going to the town and saying, "see? I was right about him!"

Not this game, Khan.

[Hiraki]

Mastin.

y u disapoint?

First off, I want a wall debate anyway.

Just because you'll lose isn't the best reasoning. Granted, you'll probably think I'm scummy now, but you still haven't brought any evidence why Khan is scum either. A vibe isn't going to convince anyone of your tells.

Spoiler:

Empking hates you. muahahahaahahah

[mastin2]

And I will be elaborating in my wall. It'll likely be my only serious wall, and if Khan counters it, you'll not see me fall into his game. (I'm the undisputed master of making walls, sure. However, I am far from the best at making walls which're convincing. In that department, a player as skilled as Khan has me beat by miles.) I'm working on it slowly, but right now, I have other more pressing obligations. This game just started; my other obligations need more attention than a game which has plenty of time left. When I can, it'll be finished, and my brief posts will resume. (I like shorter posts.)

[Silver1337]

Deity is catching my attention. He's changing votes waaaay too often.

[Scott Brosius]

He's also almost 100% town.

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: Silver1337

I just looked up your posts.

You don't lurk like this when you're town.

Newbie 1074 shows this clearly.

You had 64 posts in the game, and was featured quite well during the game.

In addition, in another ongoing game where you have already flipped, you display the same behavior and even contradict your behavior and views in this game.

Once that game ends, I'll be able to pinpoint where, for now though, I'll say that there's hints of it in that ongoing game.

Here? Nope. Nothing.

This drastic playing style from your townie self marks you as scum.

Now die.

Unvote, Vote: Silver1337

BTW. I'm actually sure of this one, so hop on and end the day already. Also, by using "that" I'm am not identifying a certain ongoing game, just one that's ongoing.

Unforunately, Silver only has 112 posts.

So.

kk?

[Skyquiem]

@Scott

>.<

I could only find the one that I played in, the other that I was watching is being a bitch to find within the mass of bookmarks that I have attained over the years.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 46&start=0

Have at it- you only need to look through day 1. I believe, if memory serves, that the Traitor made a big fuss about it. I seem to remember a cult doing so as well.

Anyways- migraine central after that, but brb with more.

- Head 1

[Silver1337]

Go on, lynch me. I hate my role anyway (the unoriginal VT)

[Silver1337]

Also, I did lurk on Newbie 1095.

[Hiraki]

CRUMBLING?

AFTER ONE(two?) VOTE(s?)?

MUAHAHAHA.

LOOK AT THIS.

SILVERSCUM LURKS AROUND WHEN NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HIM AND COMES BACK.

THE MOMENT I DO, HE COMES BACK IN. SCUM LURKING AT IT'S BEST.

NOT TO MENTION MY ARGUMENT WAS META-BASED WHICH IS HORRIBLE ALREADY.

SO HE CLAIMS.

MUAHAHAHAHA.

[gorilla]

honestly ir looks like a town reaction to me

a really bad town reaction, but town

not definitely town but it seems like real frustration. I don't want to vote him right now.

[Kublai Khan]

Khan, no offence but I care not for your previous issues with Mastin therefore I request that you two deal with your personal hatred for each other in private messages and not let it effect the game. I believe I've asked this already however I'll restate it on the off-chance you skimmed my previous post, what are your thoughts on everyone thus far?

Yeah, I'm sorry about my attitude towards mastin2. I typically try to remain cool and logical during games, but mastin2 is one of the very few who pierces that calm demeanor with his razz-emoticon tipped illogical sword.

Also, I didn't skim your previous post. I just didn't have the time necessary to write-up an in-depth post as I was defending myself for meta-reasons. Plus I felt that Page 4 was a little early for a rundown. Page 8 gives me more to consider..

@mod - Could you gently prod inHimshallibe & Reya Cookiebringer to remind them the game started?

Will do.

[winger] - No vote, claims to have re-read the game on Page 7, but has yet to offer up very little beyond "DK is probably town". Afraid to take strong stances or even ask mild questions. Looks like he's settling in to actively lurk until he can pounce on wounded prey (Scummy)

DeityKabuto - Dumb-town. I inferred that he must have jailblocked mastin2 based on his first post.

@DeityKabuto can you confirm?

.

mastin2 - He's useless as he's currently stuck in a Confirmation Bias logical fallacy mindset. I'm willing to ignore him pending the outcome of Night 1.

Silver1337 - He's so green that I feel he should be checked for moss. I meta'd his only competed game. He's consistent with his weak town meta. If he's scum, he'll probably slip up eventually. Though his last post (185) is horrible. It either reveals that he's not reading the game or that he's trying to smear DeityKabuto.

Skyquiem - Ugh. Hydra. Your schizophrenic mystery posting makes you a very tough read. Head Two is clearly scummier than Head One. But I'm basing that on just generic tells.

RisingPhoenix - Was kinda iffy until post 174. He's taking clear positions, asking concise questions, he's not hiding his cards. Strongest non-DeityKabuto town read currently.

gorilla - I'm actually reading him pretty scummy at the moment.

Hiraki - I've got a mild town read on him.

Scott Brosius - Scum read. At first I thought he might have been making a mountain out of the no-reveal hydra thing, but once he started spouting town platitudes about wanting more info, I'm decently sure of scum.

Mana_Ku - Still waiting for her to justify her Skyquiem vote. The longer I wait, the scummier it is. Note that I'm leery of thinking that she's scum together with Scott Brosius. I'd say with a strong degree of certainty that one of the two are scum.

Ranmaru - I think the current case on him is a little trumped up. Neutral read right now.

--
Goddamnit, I just can't help myself. Sticking to only relevent things.

6) mastin2's current theory about how I must be scum 3 or 4 and quote about how I claimed I could manipulate mastin2 were taken directly from the beginning of Mafia 96 Vermillion scum thread (Link - Post 6).

Quite intentionally, I might add. That was kinda the point.

The rest I'll be addressing in my future post.

(But to answer Ranmaru who just ninja'd me, they pretty much confirm my read. Brief reason as to why, is that Khan's trying to degrade the quality of my play and convince OTHERS that I'm full of BS. Rather than convince ME that I'm wrong. There's far more to it than that, of course, and I'll be elaborating in the case.)

I'm absolutely galled by the fact that you are accusing me of trying to undermine your credibility immediately after you admit you were busted trying to intentionally trying to undermine mine.

Also, missed this earlier:

Khan would obviously be 3 or 4 in this scenario, because Khan's one of the most experienced players here--even a lot of people present now who consider themselves vets would look up to Khan. Who here is even close to being Khan's on-site age?

False and misleading. Check my accurate wiki. I've only got 22 completed games (+1 mod abandonment). I'm hardly the most experienced mafia player in the game.
--
PREVIEW EDIT - Good lord, a second roleclaim? Good job, doofus.

If you are a vanilla townie, and annoyingly I think you are, then you've made it easier for scum to PR-hunt. Your job as VT is to not get lynched and to draw scum NKs towards yourself so that town power roles can live and win the game for town. That is Mafia 101.

It makes

ZERO

sense to claim vanilla townie out of nowhere. All it does is increase your personal chance of surviving until endgame because scum have

ZERO

intention of wasting their NK on a nobody like you. Now we're going to waste a bunch of time and energy dickering about whether or not to policy lynch you. Which means no scum-hunting. Way to go, jerk.

*HEAD DESK*

[Hiraki]

ir?

[[winger]]

Actually, KK, that's pretty accurate. I'm just waiting for someone to do something scummy, then pounce on them.

[Skyquiem]

I do not see a pro-town reason for not revealing your heads. Therefore asking would be futile. Why can't you reference the games? You were the one who brought it up.

So you believe that there is a difference between there being no-protown reason for witholding our heads and there being anti-town reasons. Wouldn't your natural instinct be to work out which ours is? Head One brought up the referenced games thus I left it to him to respond to. Considering both of our posting styles are very different this shows that you're not paying attention to our posts even though we're your leading suspect.

On a slightly relevant note, I accidently posted with this account in a game on my main account meaning there's no reason not to release my head at the moment. I'm Regfan but I've also played on Duplicity and Soben.

Town Reads:

Deity, Gorilla, Manu_Ku, Mastin, Khan, Mastin, Khan, RisingPhoenix

Null Reads:

Reya Cookiebringer, [winger], inHimshallibe, Hiraki

Scum Reads:

Scott Brosius, Ranmaru

[RisingPhoenix]

I just don't think it's right that you vote him to vote others. Instead, why not ask him WHY he is voting PlayerX instead of me?

It was a joke following him saying he answered you because otherwise you'd have a reason to vote him <_<

@Hiraki: You voted me because...?

[Hiraki]

You're scummy.

[mastin2]

[winger] - No vote, claims to have re-read the game on Page 7, but has yet to offer up very little beyond "DK is probably town". Afraid to take strong stances or even ask mild questions. Looks like he's settling in to actively lurk until he can pounce on wounded prey (Scummy)

Ah, how I love hypocritical humor...

I see a vote, but it's a bad one. I see

nothing

very little (see below) I'd call real scumhunting. Your reason? "Horrible vote". "Needs to justify vote." Along with ranting at me and the confirmed town Deity. And then ranting at Ranmaru. And then more ranting against me.

The only post you do anything resembling scumhunting is the very one I'm quoting. The winger suspicion is valid (but reads as highly hypocritical). Your reads on me and Deity are worthless filler. Your read on Silver comes off as scum fencesitting as well as a contradiction--calling him Green as Moss (presumably, you're calling Silver seriously town), but mention his terrible posts. If you stuck to one or the other, it'd be a valid bit of scumhunting. As is, not so much.

Sky--hydra hatred, also filler, worthless and not really giving an opinion either way. RisingPhoenix is the second true bit of scumhunting I see from you, and the first one I have no issue with. Gorilla you don't give reasons at all, not so much as a hint, just going with the general trend which the thread had at the time on him, "he doesn't look good". (If that makes sense.) Hiraki is an inversion of this. No reasons, and going against general opinion.

Scott--this one, I'll give you as being legitimate scumhunting, but only just, since the reasoning to me would actually imply TOWN to me. (Newb-town, but still...) Mana was also mostly filler.

And of course the Ranmaru read is worthless.


Don't get me wrong. There's scumhunting in there, of course, as I just pointed out. But lots of it is horrible, and a lot of it comes off as fluff intended to appear as scumhunting. Enough so to the point where your winger thing seemed hypocritical. You are on the Fence it seems in too many affairs (not taking strong stances). It's in the very way you WORD things. Your posts have mainly been ranting at others, which is itself pretty contentless. You also look like you're setting yourself up to pounce on a lot of easy targets. (I can quote for proof, but later, when I'm not busy.) And overall?

You give a severe Active Lurker impression to me.

I'll address the rest of the wall later. I'm preoccupied at the moment.