Mini 1153 - Fringe Season 3 Mafia - Game over

[Olinea]

/confirm

[Olinea]

Oh my God. Amazing player list. Let's go down the board.

Silverbullet from my first game ever.
camn from my second game ever.
ThAdmiral from my third, fourth, and fifth games ever.
populartajo from my fifth.
Nocmen from my fifth.
Seraphim co-modding my fifth.
Empking joined my modded game.
And a special hello to MrBump and evilpacman18 from off-site.

UGH

SO MANY DIFFERENT CHOICES

Vote: Zang

DAMN YOU GHOSTLIN FOR BEATING ME TO THE PUNCH

[Olinea]

Um, isn't silver's PR pretty much provable? If he gets within prod range and Zang doesn't send him a prod, there has to be something going on with his role. If silverbullet receives prods then he's either faking it or his is even more bastardly than I thought.

[Olinea]

Raivann's opening post is town.

How so?

@Seraphim
None. I'm in this game due to a combination of Pacman cashing in a favor and the player list. I am capable of reading the Fringe wiki, though.

[Olinea]

But, I suppose Olivia probably has a bigger PR than being a mason.

Do I spy a rolefish here? I doubt "PR" refers to Post Restriction here.

I'm also siding with populartajo and HellloooNewman on this whole "independent thought is Town" business... though I guess that comes down to your interpretation of what you consider "independent thought". Scum's job is to blend in. Obtuse or otherwise noteworthy behavior is definitely not scum-motivated since it draws attention to you.

MrBump, is your vote RVS? Not entirely sure here.

[Olinea]

I may be due for a prod soon so I'm gonna let you all know that I'm re-reading at the moment, will have thoughts up in a few minutes.

[Olinea]

Silver's post restriction sure is scummy.

Vote:Seraphim

Let’s see, a jab at camn. Okay. Post underneath it is what I’m looking at.

Silver's post restriction sure is scummy.

Vote:Seraphim

I most certainly did not say it was. Where in the world would you get that approximation?

This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Seraphim’s response seems… paranoid to me. Raivann’s post didn’t even address Seraphim’s thoughts on the silverbullet wagon (presumably the vote was serious, I suppose, since Raivann seemed to acknowledge that things were happening when he went against camn’s threat) and Seraphim gives a more-exasperated-than-necessary response. He’s also not questioning the vote despite this being the first non-silverbullet vote in the game… without a case presented by Raivann it seems Seraphim is

aware

of what a case on him would be (because he didn’t ask why the vote was put down) so I don’t know if Seraphim was consciously being scummy or what. Do not like.

Pacman comes in and clears all of this up… okay.

One last thought. Jester?

Maybe it’s just me, but Jester speculation goes down with experience. I’m sure if I played anything but Newbies in my early days, I’d have thought Jesters were pretty common too. Seraphim thinks otherwise.

Vote: HellooooNewman

Jester speculation is lol. terrible vibes from that post.

Wha-

You’re voting Newman on “vibes”? I can understand how Jester speculation is a bit scummy but IMO it’s a newbtell more. I’m not going to call a difference on that matter a scumtell but these “vibes” and the reasons he doesn’t like the Jester speculation aren’t really explained.

Jester speculation is always a great way for scum to casually exit a wagon that might be going south.

Oh, hmm. Never mind.

And sorry for trying to figure out what Silver was doing. I suppose I should just keep my mouth shut and blindly follow someone elses lead.

*rolls eyes*

rrrrrrrgh AtE

Thanks for confirming your scumminess. I'm sure the rest of the town appreciates it.

For the record, I hate these kinds of posts – “you’re scum” and “I’m Town”. Not a scumtell but it’s probably my biggest Mafia pet peeve. It does nothing to sway me and I doubt it sways others. Only people who need to reaffirm that they’re Town are people who aren’t confident in their towniness.

Some questions:
1) Mass nameclaim, anyone? Wanna lock down scum fakeclaims early on?
2) Empking - are you post restricted as well?

1) I’m fine with this (might be a bit late)… not that I can divine anything from it anyways >_>
2) I think that’s normal Empking

2. Lol, probably not he just posts that way.

Heh.

I'm forced to agree that camn's actions are looking quite significantly off.

Hoo boy.

Let’s see if he expands on this.

I can't be on a lynching wagon.

So...bascially Raivan, you're saying that you're not going to vote until Lylo?

That sounds to me like you are giving yourself a nice excuse to NOT hunt/vote scum.

The fuck? Did you two misunderstand the statement or misrep it? I’d like to say a bit of both. If he’s on the wagon at the time of the lynch, he dies. I thought it seemed pretty open-and-shut (inb4 I’m completely wrong). I don’t see any possible reason how somebody could interpret that as “I cannot scumhunt or shit happens”. Yeah, that was a misrep from the both of you.

Seraphim, why did you vote Raviann?

This, I'm not liking seraphim's participation on the wagons

You were on Newman and Empking, too. Let’s check YOUR participation on these wagons.

Vote: HelloNewman

(absolutely no more comment on the Newman wagon)

I'm not too much a fan of Emp's play right now, with his vote and fos it seems a bit too cautious for what i mentioned previously.
Emp points out he's a hypocrit for staying on the wagon, but at the same time he gets another quick wagon to L-2.

Vote: empking

Empking is a bit better but no way are you going to claim Seraphim’s the only one wagoning just for the sake of wagoning. Also, you’re going to say Empking’s scummy for being cautious with an FoS but scummy for voting on the wagon?

What are you talking about?

not being productive is a nulltell from emp.

Not being productive is not really a tell, no. But it

is

scummy no matter who it is, and I don’t know why you’re deciding to give Empking a free pass on this one because of some convoluted meta argument.

(look at me, arguing about productivity)

don't you think it's weird that seraphim's 3 votes are all wagon votes?

You know,

where 2 out of the three

were pretty much following onto the wagon that was forming up?

...how are ALL my votes wagon votes when one of them STARTED a fucking wagon? The bolded statements are contradictory. I smell bullshit wafting through the air. All of my votes have had good reasoning behind them, I don't care if there's a wagon there or not. Also, how is wagon-hopping scummy anyway?

Null on this. Nocmen’s providing conflicting statements here but I didn’t see “good reasoning” behind the Raivann vote until a while after the vote was dropped.

Re: Raivann’s role. He says he’s getting information overnight, no? While his claim makes wagon analysis kind of a bitch, the information he gets overnight can be used to test the validity of his fullclaim. If he’s got extremely vague information which isn’t worth a cent, we have him hammer our D2 lynch. If he’s got information that makes him dangerous to scum, then scum resolve the problem themselves. However, Nocmen and HellloooNewman’s statements that Raivann is unable to scumhunt are kinda loads of bull since there’s absolutely no clause in what he’s said so far that says he can’t scumhunt. I’m not pleased with his current performance but I don’t think this is an issue to be resolved today.

Vote: Nocmen

[Olinea]

Olinea: 1. Emp is scum because of his refusal to reply to basic questions and be productive. I feel that 187 was one of the first times where it could possibly convince me otherwise.
Additionally, where did I say that Raivann couldn't scumhunt?

~Neither of those... were outlined in your vote on Empking.

~Urk. I must've lumped you together with Newman. But even saying "so you're not going to vote??" is false and, while less of a misrep, is still a misrep in my book.

Oh, I forgot to mention,

@Newman: I'm 99% sure your information is false. That's all I'm saying for now.

[Olinea]

Pacman, has silverbullet literally only posted about his breadcrumb, asking why you haven't voted Newman, and asking about how camn would breadcrumb something using Shakespeare? You're obviously allowed to quote from the QT as evidenced by posts #8 and #11 in your ISO, and knowing silver to be pretty active I can't say I'm a fan of how it appears that you're almost censoring your claimed Mason buddy. Can you post everything that he's said so far?

[Olinea]

@ Olinea - Do you mean you think that my intel is bad, or that I am lying?

Bad intel.

[Olinea]

You may notice I'm not actually voting Raivann atm. However, scum motivation is simple in that silver claimed a PR at the very start of the game and this is bastard, so he could have decided to pretend he has a restriction. Said restriction also means he can't vote so he can say "Oh I wasn't on that wagon" which loses immediate suspicion on him until later in the game. His second part of his claim was because he realised people were suspicious of him so he had to give them a reason to keep him alive.

Um.

Am I the only person who saw Raivann's claim and didn't go "can't be on a lynching wagon" = "can't vote"? If he couldn't vote then he would have just said so.

Look at this.

Page 2.

Silver's post restriction sure is scummy.

Vote:Seraphim

Please stop talking about how "Raivann can't vote omg" because it's absolutely false and it reeks of either lack of reading comprehension or attempts to ham him up as a better policy lynch. Raivann’s claim is provable.

Ghost wrote a whole wall to OMGUS tajo. Is probscum.

That’s actually not really a wall. That’s a post saying “Tajo forgot he was playing”, “Tajo wasn’t scumhunting when he simply said camn was town”, and all of the votals copy-pasted to demonstrate a misrep of Tajo saying Nocmen was attacking Seraphim even though Nocmen never voted him. That’s not a wall in the slightest.

If scum have a role blocker, it's really damn easy to say 'I was blocked: no result.' Really damn easy. Like, I've seen in another setup where someone claimed Cop Day 1 and then spent the majority of the remaining days claiming he was blocked. He wasn't. He was scum. Scum wouldn't let Raivann ever get a result and keep him alive for lynch bait.

You're voting Raivann.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Yes. He is. Did you read his case about how Raivann can get away with claiming Roleblocked if he’s scum or did you just feel the need to announce that he is, indeed, voting Raivann? I notice your later explanation…

First you act like there definitely is a role blocker then cover your tracks with meta, then act like "scum wouldn't let Raivann do this" yet you're voting him. I don't gerrit. Eh, I was too brash anyway-

…in which you’re seeing the wrong part of what he’s saying. He’s saying scumRaivann could claim Roleblocked every night to avoid giving information. Then you go voting Newman and saying Ghostlin will be next? The only case on Ghostlin that you were citing was "Ghostlin thinks Raivann is Town but is voting him anyways". This is refuted when you found out you hadn't understood his point properly, unvoted, and then continued to spread suspicion on Ghostlin for... what reason in particular? There doesn't seem to be anything you're holding against Ghostlin but you lined him up for a lynch tomorrow. Bad.

Re: Raivann being voteless: My meaning wasn't that he COULDN'T scum hunt. My meaning was that he gave himself a built in excuse for NOT scumhunting. It would be a brilliant scum play. He wouldn't be on any townie wagons, and nobody would question why he wasn't night killed, cause why would scum waste a kill on a voteless townie.

He’s

Not

Voteless

And while it doesn’t excuse him from scumhunting, I’d agree that his current level of scumhunting is not up-to-par given the amount of talk of simply letting him die today. But scum aren’t always stacked on Townie wagons. ScumRaivann is restricted to those smaller wagons which are still up for analysis.

How do you have setup info anyway?
Nevermind. I don't wanna know.

ITT camn rolefishes.

How in the

world

is that rolefishing if Newman has already given us his information? It’s almost certain that he got this information before the game started and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of way he can expand on it. camn’s question is setting off small alarms in my head too since she’s asking how he got the information and then retracting it. It’s like she wants to know but she doesn’t want to be the one responsible for Newman letting out any more information.

I'm more or less just gonna play observer and get reads on everyone.

Then you are going to die.
That is anti-town play, and I will not tolerate it.

Ohai ego

The fuck?

First:
Wagon on Ghost was quick. Not that that's bad as he's scum.

And you’re not on it. You’re currently sitting on Newman going “hey guys, I like this Ghostlin wagon, I think it’ll net us some scum”. Why are you voting Newman if you’re adamant that Ghostlin is scum?

Camn, threatening to vote a player who is, by most accounts, town does not reflect well on you. You never want to lose a town vote. Period. To suggest that he is anti town because he is not playing to your liking is bogus.

And this is a blatant misrepresentation of camn's point.

How do you figure? He said that his behavior was "anti town" and that he would "die". A clear threat if I ever saw one. Now, most people agree that Silver is town. Threatening to kill a pro town player, thus reducing the number of pro town votes, is bull.

Where did I misrepresent anything?

He didn’t.

By camn’s own admission, as evidenced by the usage of “anti-town” rather than “scummy”, she thinks silverbullet is Town rather than scum. Pacman comes in and calls it a misrep without any explanation, although this is normally how he plays so =_=

Point is, camn’s directing lynches and vig shots to somebody who she thinks is Town. That

is

a threat and I need to see pacman explain why he found that to be a misrep.

Strongest Town reads are tajo and camn.
I’d be up for a lynch of MrBump or possibly Nocmen/Seraphim if their plays start slipping. Pacman’s Mason claim buys him a bit of towncred but not enough to coast on.
I don’t get ThAdmiral’s wagon hop and whether he thought he was going to get away with jumping on the bandwagon so blatantly and so obviously.

Unvote: Nocmen
Vote: MrBump

[Olinea]

Camn, threatening to vote a player who is, by most accounts, town does not reflect well on you.

a player who is, by most accounts, town

by most accounts, town

A) Newman... there is no indication that silver is town. Your misrep is under the assumption that he is confirmed. He is not.

wat

If there is no indication that silver is Town, why do you keep calling his actions “anti-town” rather than “scummy”, camn? There is scum motivation in withholding information and coasting. So why haven’t you been calling it scummy?

[Olinea]

I'm not sure what he means by "Town and I." I'll reiterate, he was confirmed town in my role PM but that mod also said there's a good chance he'll lie to us. I'm not doing any assuming.

No, this is actually a really good catch. Third party silverbullet?

Only trouble is that I really can't see any feasible way that you can expect a third party to perform halfway decent in a game where he's a) Third Party and b) Not allowed to post in-thread. I suppose the Mason thing helps but I'd definitely like to see silverbullet reason his way out of it.

[Olinea]

Are you actually serious? That's the worst misrep of me you've done in a long time, son. I think he's scummy for other reasns, and I'm still not happy with that post where he was acting like Raivann is town yet he's voting him.

Show me these reasons. Post links and quotes to any sort of reasoning as to why you find Ghostlin scummy. I went through your ISO and you have posted absolutely

no

reasons to think Ghostlin is scummy outside of an incident in which

you

misunderstood his reasoning.

What MrBump thinks:

Ghostlin:

Raivann is Town and can just be Roleblocked every night.

Vote: Raivann

Reality:

Ghostlin:

If Raivann is scum, it's extremely convenient to just claim Roleblocked every night.

Vote: Raivann

You're posting abolutely no reasoning behind your Ghostlin vote besides you lack of understanding of his statement. You claim you think "Ghostlin is scummy for other reasons" but have 0 other reasons at any point in your ISO where you outline a case on Ghostlin. I call bullshit.

More votes on MrBump.

[Olinea]

The reasons posted by OTHERS were the other reason. Sorry to meta, but remember SHM6? I got accused for parroting, I was town. I was apparently stealing points, and looking through my own games I do that

a lot

. So I decided there was no point in saying points already said, as we can all read, so I'm scummy for not saying them? Olinea, what do you want me to DO?

So because you have a scummy meta, I should be excusing your scummy behavior?

Absolutely not.

Keep failing to specifically outline the reasoning behind your Ghostlin vote, I love it. If your only points on Ghostlin are ones raised by others then your lynch may turn to policy.

[Olinea]

Olinea, I said "I'm going after Ghostlin tomorrow" (paraphrased obviously). Why the hell are you COMPLETELY ignoring when Camn does this (which is usually once per page) or says she's going to "play to her win condition"? Tunnelling is not cool, and you're clearly doing it here. I can go back and do an ISO of Ghostlin to tell you his scummy posts, but unless you just skimmed the entire thread I don't see the need to as it's a waste of bloody time. Your case on me is "Bump said Ghostlin was scum, but I don't agree with his main reason, so he's scum". I'm going to be honest, that is complete and utter crap, Olinea, and you can do better.

So because you have a scummy meta, I should be excusing your scummy behavior?

Way to completely and utterly ignore my point in every way, shape and form. I'm trying to fix my scummy meta, right? So you've said "BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PLAYING TO YOUR SCUMMY META YOU'RE SCUM."

Seriously.

What the shit are you smoking.

First off, misrep +1 for saying I'm tunnelling you. I've made literally 3 posts pertaining to your current scumminess.

Oh, you'd like me to bring up the other points of the case on you?

~You misrepped Raivann by saying he couldn’t vote even though this has been outlined multiple times and DEMONSTRATED that he

could

vote.
~Your vote on Ghostlin due to a misunderstanding, then an almost immediate hop off, even though it has been demonstrated that you do

not

understand what the issue with your case was. (By the way, the reason I disagree with your main reason is because it’s

wrong

. Ghostlin outlined a case on scumRaivann claiming Roleblocked to stop giving information. If I simplified that any further then it’d end up on Sesame Street)
~You misrep camn for “rolefishing”
~You park your vote on HellloooNewman saying “I like this Ghostlin wagon, I think it’ll net us some scum” even though you, at that point, had not outlined any sort of evidence against Ghostlin (and still haven’t).
~You claim to have great reasons to think Ghostlin is scum which are raised by other people but you continue to fail in providing these reasons even after explicitly asked to do so.
~Your meta defense.
~You’re flipping out and saying I’m “tunneling” when I’ve made three posts pertaining to this case on you (now 4). You’re trying to twist the fact that I’m making a case on you into… what, exactly?

Misrep +2 for your last part. You tried to use a meta defense. “Sorry to meta, but remember SHM6?” That is a meta defense. That is justifying your actions using experience from another game. It is not an excuse. You seemed to think it was.

[Olinea]

First off, misrep +1 for saying I'm tunnelling you. I've made literally 3 posts pertaining to your current scumminess.

And posts on no one else since your first one.

False. One of those posts was an enormous catchup wall and there's a post directed towards camn in my ISO located between a few of the posts directed towards you.

Oh, you'd like me to bring up the other points of the case on you?

~You misrepped Raivann by saying he couldn’t vote even though this has been outlined multiple times and DEMONSTRATED that he

could

vote.

Did you even fucking read my part on Raivann?

You may notice I'm not actually voting Raivann atm. However, scum motivation is simple in that silver claimed a PR at the very start of the game and this is bastard, so he could have decided to pretend he has a restriction. Said restriction also means he can't vote so he can say "Oh I wasn't on that wagon" which loses immediate suspicion on him until later in the game. His second part of his claim was because he realised people were suspicious of him so he had to give them a reason to keep him alive.

He can't be on the wagon.
THAT IS FUCKING TRUE.
That was my point, not "he can't vote" becuase he can obviously fucking vote, I can see that. I said "he can't vote" to show he can't be on the wagon then use it as an excuse. Tbh, you just picked out "he can't vote" and ignored the rest of my post. Wow, ignoring my posts? Never seen that one.

Being off of a wagon doesn't automatically excuse you from being scrutinized. Scum love to stay "not voting".

Also,

Said restriction also means he can't vote

So yeah. When you said this, I kinda assumed you meant... he couldn't vote. Surely you understand why.

~Your vote on Ghostlin due to a misunderstanding, then an almost immediate hop off, even though it has been demonstrated that you do

not

understand what the issue with your case was. (By the way, the reason I disagree with your main reason is because it’s

wrong

. Ghostlin outlined a case on scumRaivann claiming Roleblocked to stop giving information. If I simplified that any further then it’d end up on Sesame Street)

No, a misunderstanding FYPOV. I understand what you're trying to say, I'm not an idiot. HOWEVER, the way he acted like he was town despite the fact he was voting him is my case. I understand he was trying to outline what scum Raivann would do but the

way he posted it

made it seem like it was what scum would do to Raivann, when he seemingly thought/thinks Raivann is scum.

What.

If scum have a role blocker, it's really damn easy to say 'I was blocked: no result.' Really damn easy. Like, I've seen in another setup where

someone claimed Cop Day 1 and then spent the majority of the remaining days claiming he was blocked. He wasn't. He was scum.

Scum wouldn't let Raivann ever get a result and keep him alive for lynch bait.

And I know you'll point out that last sentence. It doesn't outline TownRaivann. It outlines the incentive for Raivann to claim Roleblocked and go "oh, they keep Roleblocking me to make me look scummy, when we lynch the Roleblocker I can give you information!"

~You park your vote on HellloooNewman saying “I like this Ghostlin wagon, I think it’ll net us some scum” even though you, at that point, had not outlined any sort of evidence against Ghostlin (and still haven’t).

Wagon swapping!
OMGUS'ing!
Moar wagon swapping!
Wagon hopping!
Refusing to listen to logic!

IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU
JUST LOOK AT HIS DAMNED POSTS

For starters, you don't cite anything specific. But let's condense this from your inflated 5 points to 3. "Wagon swapping", "moar wagon swapping", and "wagon hopping" all mean the same thing. Don't reiterate your point in order to pad any sort of case you're making. It doesn't work.

Now. Ghostlin's voted 3 times. He voted camn, Raivann, and populartajo. Third vote on camn, third vote on Ghostlin, first vote on populartajo. How in the world is any of that "wagon swapping"? He cited reasoning behind every vote. In addition, where was he on the silverbullet wagon? The numerous HellloooNewman wagons? Your wagon? You need to cite why you can claim Ghostlin was wagon-hopping instead of throwing around Mafia buzzwords.

"OMGUS'ing!" In other words... voting for populartajo when populartajo wasn't actually voting him? Because I don't see how Ghostlin's logic behind his tajo vote was OMGUS. He even details it here when pacman says Ghostlin wrote a wall to OMGUS tajo.

Cite a specific example of Ghostlin refusing to listen to logic. Whose logic was it, what was the logic, why is it foolproof, and where can I find this quote?

~Your meta defense.

I fear if I answer this one I will be forced to destroy you.

Please don't dodge the question.

Misrep +2 for your last part. You tried to use a meta defense. “Sorry to meta, but remember SHM6?” That is a meta defense. That is justifying your actions using experience from another game. It is not an excuse. You seemed to think it was.

That's your worst misrep ever.

I know it's a fucking meta defence.
HENCE
THE
FUCKING
QUOTE
"Sorry to meta"
ARE YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING SERIOUS!??!?!

Um.

So you admit that you used a meta defense, and then say I'm misrepping you for saying you used a meta defense? Please clarify.

You said yourself "Your scummy meta excuses you from being scum" and THEN you say that I'm justifying actions from another game?

Have you actually read a single one of my posts this page (or last)?

Perhaps I should put sarcasm tags? Or some sort of disclaimer which states that I didn't actually think your meta defense was a proper way to defend yourse-

So because you have a scummy meta, I should be excusing your scummy behavior?

Absolutely not.

Oh.

The point is that a meta defense is

not

a defense. It's a crock pot of WIFOM, especially when you're saying "I did this last game, and I'm trying to change my meta, so I'm doing it this game, too". ("This" refers to failing to cite others' reasoning behind your vote and tunnelling people.) Your meta defense was not, and still is not, a substantive defense by any stretch of the imagination.

[Olinea]

Also, @Admiral, MrBump and I know each other off-site. We're at each others' throats

now

but we get along famously. No need for concern.

And I just remembered where I know your avatar from... it's Grom Hellscream. I

knew

it looked familiar >_>

[Olinea]

Oh jeez, hadn't realized I'd been gone so long. I'll get a proper post up later this evening but I don't currently see the merit in a Ghostlin wagon (even though he's back-and-forth'ing with populartajo, who I still think is Town), nor Newman. I may see Empking since the only justification for his short, relatively uninformative posts has been somebody else using a meta defense.

I also don't buy silverbullet's justification for his "Town and I". When you say "my family" or "my friends", it's not implied that you fit in that group. "My friends egged my house" is different from "my friends and I egged my house". Don't care if it lands scumpoints from him, he heavily distanced himself from the town there and his explanation is counter-intuitive.

Unvote

[Olinea]

That's some bull... if you say my family and I went to get the family photo... does that not imply you are part of the family?

If I say my friends and I egged my house, does that not imply that we as a group egged my house?

If I say I vote town and I auto win, does that not imply that I hope that we as a group win?

[/quote]

(oh God this is such a bad semantics argument... whatever, I think it's a slip).

~No, it doesn't. If it implied that you were part of the family, you would just say "my family went to get the family photo". Adding the "I" separates you into a separate group.

~Yes. It does. But saying "My friends egged my house" is everybody except you.

~Yes. It does. But "Town auto-wins" is different from "Town and I auto-win" because you make a point of excluding yourself from the Town when you say the latter.

Given the bastard nature of the game, I wouldn't be surprised to see silverbullet as a third-party Mason. I realized that the flipside to not being able to communicate in-thread lessens pressure since your information is being filtered and not under as much analysis as others. No matter how silverbullet justifies this, I don't think it can convince me.

Vote: silverbullet999

[Olinea]

@ olinea: so why would he reveal that if he was indeed 3rd party?

Reveal what?

[Olinea]

Really stupid question. If SB is a third party mason, wouldn't that make EP third party as well, unless the mod obv lied to one of them since SB MUST have EP as their mouthpiece?
And do you think that whatever role SB has as a third party mason would be worth the effort?

Eh. We're getting deep into WIFOM territory. I can't discern Pacman's alignment from silver's.

Hell if I know if it's worth the effort. I don't know what he's capable of.

[Olinea]

Silverbullet999 - 3 - (

Silverbullet999

, Olinea, Nocmen) (L-4)

what

[Olinea]

@ olinea: so why would he reveal that if he was indeed 3rd party?

Reveal what?

That if he voted the town he would win.

I took that vote to mean "VOTE: Town wins. And I win."

[Olinea]

4. Noc, : I see you have picked two 3rd party-ers (which I think are the hardest to pick out)... but who are the actual mafia? To everyone: I generally concentrate on Mafia first, right? I also think concentrating on 3rd party this early in the game (when we dont even know if there ARE 3rd parties) is kind of a scum tell.. in that scum are VERY motivated to find other killing roles... and hunting for them makes them look like they are HUNTING (because they are), thus covering up the biggest of scum-tells: Not looking for scum.
Agree? disagree? Nocmen moves up my scumlist.

This is addressed to Nocmen but I'm focused on Third Party silverbullet atm so I'd think I fall under this class, too.

Not all third party roles are SKs/killing roles.

If it stands in the way of fulfilling my wincon, it's scum.

Pacman, does silverbullet explain his self-vote?

[Olinea]

@People on Silverbullet

: Do you think pacman is town? Do you think pacman is telling the truth (so far as he knows) about their role names?

Yeah. From my (limited) meta on Pacman, when Pacman is reserved and calm it shows he's still figuring things out. Pacman in "RAWR RAEGTUNNEL" mode means he's got a target in sights. He's stated numerous times that his scum meta involves early bussing (something I have seen him uphold) and, to my knowledge, he hasn't pressed hard on anyone.

I need to ask Zang a question before I ascertain whether I could be swayed into a Newman vote. Was never keen on Ghostlin. Need to re-read esurio/Seraphim since Sera never disappeared completely off my scumdar. Nocmen's looking better to me... maybe because he's with me on the silverbullet situation. Iunno.

[Olinea]

It's also interesting to note that people were on Silver's ass for the "Town and I" comment, yet everyone kinda ignored Newmen's one.

Please point this out?

Vote: Empking

[Olinea]

Based on my role information, Walternate is scum.

Unvote: Empking
Vote: esuriospiritus

@Empking: I'm almost certain I had a post explaining that I could be swayed to vote for you based on the short, relatively uninformative posts and the only justification of it being a meta defense. This appears to have disappeared from my ISO. Or else I'm extremely forgetful.

[Olinea]

Oh, never mind, it's here.

[Olinea]

Remind me never to watch this show.

Unvote

[Olinea]

Okay, so claimed scum is... Ghostlin/Empking, correct?

Given the whole dilemma with alternate Olivias and identity thieves I'm inclined not to touch one of the Olivias today. esurio's point that conflicting information regarding Alt-Olivia being scum but actually Town and vice-versa is a bit more concrete than flavor speculation but now we've got two claimed scum, so ehhh.

esurio's claim seems locked down pretty solidly, I would like her to explain this, however...

This plus the prevalent bastard moddery leads me to believe that it's possible that our scumteam is made up of shapeshifters (my Fringe game had this to an extent) who can communicate with the mod to flip anything they want, which would sort of explain

the mass-scumteam gambit that seems to be going on here

.

Who's part of the gambiting scumteam right now?

Vote: Ghostlin

[Olinea]

OK, I'll confess. I'm Alternate-Olivia Mafia Goon.

Eh. Given that I'd believe Fauxlivia and Walternate are scum, I'm inclined to do Empking today.

I don't see how not wanting to be lynched is a scumtell, tajo.

[Olinea]

Vote: Empking

[Olinea]

It also mentions Olivia Dunham is town and for my win condition all members of my family

must

survive and Olivia must realize she's town. I know Empking is Olivia.

however, after reading this quote, I think I want to lynch Emp again.

I guess we need more input, night actions, etc.

Hm. Forgot about that bit.

Wouldn't it imply that Empking is under the impression that he's a Mafia Goon but is actually Town-sided?

[Olinea]

Unvote: Empking
Vote: Nocmen

[Olinea]

Newman, did you use your ability during the day?

Vote: silverbullet999

[Olinea]

Also, for those with more flavor knowledge than me, "crippled by amnesia" and "frozen in amber"... what are these references to?

[Olinea]

@ Olinea - Yes, I used my 1-shot a few pages into Day 1.

Oh.

In that case, your information's probably correct.

I'm going after silverbullet because... well, I still think it was a slip. That and I'm starting to PoE everybody out. I never liked the Newman wagons and I don't see myself on them. It's only furthered by the fact that he openly claimed an alternate version of somebody instead of sweeping it under the rug.

[Olinea]

i dont get all this read and blue stuff

anhyone?

Bit of research seems to indicate there are two different universes which people go back and forth through. I think the universes aren't ever explicitly called the "red" and "blue" universes but there's symbolism scattered around and whatnot.

Bump, why the nameclaim? That was completely unprovoked.

[Olinea]

silverbullet999 - 1 -

(Olinea)

(L-6)

Not Voting:silverbullet999, HellloooNewman, Populartajo,

Olinea

, MrBump

Mod, is the vote count correct?

[Olinea]

How come Ghostlin didn't flip Traitor?

Unvote
Vote: esuriospiritus

@Bump "everyone" meaning myself, tajo, and Admiral, right?

[Olinea]

Did a bit more reading, found something else that's interesting news.

esurio claims that her kill flavor is "frozen in amber" because her character works for a company that produces it.

However

...

Scenario:

When the alternate universe becomes unstable,

Walternate’s special formula of Amber 31422 is used to seal up everything in the area — including the humans, who remain aware and arrested in whatever worry last crossed their mind.

Plausibility: 9 of 10.

The humans’ lives, Walternate explains, are “a tragic but small price to pay for the greater good.” Utilitarianism is apparently the morality system in the alt-world. So when a man chisels his twin brother out of the amber, it’s of course in the interest of the most people to track down the escapee with all the exuberance of Alternate Astrid solving a sudoku, until Joshua, the chisel-wielding brother, seals himself in amber to protect his brother. Olivia guessed all this of course, because, not only can she tear through the fabric of the universe with her cortexiphan-boosted brain, but …

... which means that the idea of esurio = Walternate can't be completely ruled out.

@tajo To help his wincon? Why not?

[Olinea]

I know you did. I'm just saying that it doesn't make your identity lead towards Fayette over Walternate since the two are both associated with amber.

[Olinea]

I'm fine with massclaim.

[Olinea]

Unvote

If we're going massclaim I don't want anyone at L-1 during it.

[Olinea]

Peter Bishop

,

Neutral Selector

turned

Vanilla Townie

.

Here's how it worked. At the beginning of the game, I was told I had to make a decision to side with either Walter Bishop or Walternate and become either a Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon without access to the QuickTopic. I'm a Vanilla Townie. This is why I've insisted that Newman's information has been incorrect as it would mean the game was originally designed with 3 third party roles (well, yeah, I don't stay that way forever, but it's still swingy) and why I figured Walternate is scum.

I'd like silver to claim, but in the interest of getting our information out on the table,

evilpacman18

next.

[Olinea]

@ Olinea - I suppose my information would have depended on whether or not I asked for the intel prior to you making your decision, or after. I can check the timestamp of the PM if you like.

I asked Zang about this already. He said using the timestamps qualifies as Role PM quoting.

[Olinea]

Yeah, I've been doing research and I find no ties between licorice and Fringe. There's something that compares the two...

“not everybody likes licorice, but the people who like licorice really like licorice and we’re thrilled to be licorice”.

... but I'm not sure how that compares to Bishop.

[Olinea]

silverbullet hasn't claimed abilities either. I'm not willing to hammer

anyone

until I get a fullclaim from him.

[Olinea]

THIS IS WHY I WANTED YOU PEOPLE TO UNVOTE

[Olinea]

I'm not voting until we get his claim.

[Olinea]

Does he have any sort of additional powers besides being a Mason?

[Olinea]

Alright. I liked tajo more than Seraphim and all I know is that one of Walter/Walternate is scum. Hell if I know exactly why Ghostlin did what he did, but we have room for error so let's just go for it. If esurio doesn't flip Walternate I'm gonna try and see who I think is fakeclaiming.

Vote: esuriospiritus

[Olinea]

Yeah, I read about how he's trying to ruin shit and whatnot.

Mmkay. Let's look at Ghostlin's thing.

Sorry guys, according to my role PM I can't let you do that. My role PM says Empking is town but acutally may not know that.

It's time for me to acutally jump on a grenade for the good of my win condition. I am the Alternate Phillip Broyles. Leader of the division, but since Olivia Dunham saved my kid I've had doubts. I am a Mafia Roleblocker/Traitor (one sided lover) with the piece of information I just shared with you. If anyone targets my family...well, I bite it.

It also mentions Olivia Dunham is town and for my win condition all members of my family

must

survive and Olivia must realize she's town. I know Empking is Olivia.

The scum leader is Walternate, who was Seraphim and who is now esurio. Here's the deal. I'm going to have you test my own honesty. Lynch me now. If I don't flip Mafia Traitor, lynch whomever you want. If I flip Mafia Traitor, lynch esurio tomorrow and decide for yourselves what you're going to do.

To ensure you guys don't go, 'he's bluffing', I'll even make this easy on you.

Unvote. Vote: Ghostlin

Who else is in the Broyles family?

[Olinea]

Unvote

I hate bastard games.

[Olinea]

evilpacman18 - Nina Sharp
silverbullet999 - Bell
MrBump - Alternate Diane Broyles
Olinea - Peter Bishop
populartajo - Walter Bishop
HellloooNewman - Alternate Astrid Farnsworth
ThAdmiral - Henry Higgins
esuriospritus - Brandon



Okay, so obviously Ghostlin's wincon rested on Bump staying alive, too. It seems odd that he'd reveal Empking as possible Mafia,

especially

if he needed Empking to realize he was Town (still not sure how that would happen).

Admiral's one-shot commute + Henry Higgins thing sounds like a fakeclaim but ughhhhh

Why don't we have a real Diane Broyles claimed?

[Olinea]

pacman, does anyone on the claimed list besides esurio have ties to amber?

[Olinea]

Vote: esuriospiritus

[Olinea]

silverbullet999 puts soul magnets in Olinea.

<3

Yeah, Ghostlin's move pretty much decimated scum... I'm

really

glad I chose Town : )

This teaches me not to join a game that I don't have flavor knowledge about (as I said, did it as a favor for Pacman, plus the kickass player list). I suppose it embraced the claimed "bastard" style nicely, what with tajo being a CPR doc, Empking changing alignments, etc. If I knew more on the flavor and whatnot I'd have more to say, but I guess not.

Good game to everyone, hoping to play with y'all down the road.

[Olinea]

Oh man, I loved reading that quicktopic. Silver made me laugh the entire time.

Also, been meaning to ask... camn, explain your breadcrumb?

[Olinea]

Also, I like the Jerry joke silverbullet made because it works on two different levels.