Mini 1153 - Fringe Season 3 Mafia - Game over

[camn]

A) Newman... there is no indication that silver is town. Your misrep is under the assumption that he is confirmed. He is not. However..
B) I am not proposing his lynch at this time. Later, we will see, because
C) an unconfirmed in LYLO with NO backlog of posts, reads, votes, pressure, interaction and thoughts to pore through is either: an easy mislynch (aka A LOSS) or a difficult scumlynch (aka A LOSS). Neither is acceptable to ME, as I have a town win condition.
Of course.. if YOU dont have the same, I could see how you got confused.

D) pacman.. point taken re: power. I DO think highly of my ability-to-convince-people-to-lynch... but I see your perspective.
E) Mr. Bump.. not posting.. and especially just saying up front that you are simply going to OBSERVE... it is anti-town. I punish it with anger, votes, and death in any game I town in. You are correct that I will probably die before endgame... but I like to make my positions known.

[HellloooNewman]

I did not say that Silver is confirmed town. I said that most people seem to believe that he is, at this time. Big difference. Who's misrepping who?

[camn]

UNVOTE :
VOTE HELLLLOOONEWMAN

[evilpacman18]

So scum is Newman, Seraphim, and ThAdmiral? Chill, chill, megachill. Seraphim needs to come back. Until then let's get this wagon going.

unvote, vote: hellooonewman

Also, ThAdmiral would unvote pretty soon because he's trying to distance but not trying to bus. I say would because now it's less likely that he will since I pointed it out. Let's not get into WIFOM though.

[Olinea]

You may notice I'm not actually voting Raivann atm. However, scum motivation is simple in that silver claimed a PR at the very start of the game and this is bastard, so he could have decided to pretend he has a restriction. Said restriction also means he can't vote so he can say "Oh I wasn't on that wagon" which loses immediate suspicion on him until later in the game. His second part of his claim was because he realised people were suspicious of him so he had to give them a reason to keep him alive.

Um.

Am I the only person who saw Raivann's claim and didn't go "can't be on a lynching wagon" = "can't vote"? If he couldn't vote then he would have just said so.

Look at this.

Page 2.

Silver's post restriction sure is scummy.

Vote:Seraphim

Please stop talking about how "Raivann can't vote omg" because it's absolutely false and it reeks of either lack of reading comprehension or attempts to ham him up as a better policy lynch. Raivann’s claim is provable.

Ghost wrote a whole wall to OMGUS tajo. Is probscum.

That’s actually not really a wall. That’s a post saying “Tajo forgot he was playing”, “Tajo wasn’t scumhunting when he simply said camn was town”, and all of the votals copy-pasted to demonstrate a misrep of Tajo saying Nocmen was attacking Seraphim even though Nocmen never voted him. That’s not a wall in the slightest.

If scum have a role blocker, it's really damn easy to say 'I was blocked: no result.' Really damn easy. Like, I've seen in another setup where someone claimed Cop Day 1 and then spent the majority of the remaining days claiming he was blocked. He wasn't. He was scum. Scum wouldn't let Raivann ever get a result and keep him alive for lynch bait.

You're voting Raivann.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Yes. He is. Did you read his case about how Raivann can get away with claiming Roleblocked if he’s scum or did you just feel the need to announce that he is, indeed, voting Raivann? I notice your later explanation…

First you act like there definitely is a role blocker then cover your tracks with meta, then act like "scum wouldn't let Raivann do this" yet you're voting him. I don't gerrit. Eh, I was too brash anyway-

…in which you’re seeing the wrong part of what he’s saying. He’s saying scumRaivann could claim Roleblocked every night to avoid giving information. Then you go voting Newman and saying Ghostlin will be next? The only case on Ghostlin that you were citing was "Ghostlin thinks Raivann is Town but is voting him anyways". This is refuted when you found out you hadn't understood his point properly, unvoted, and then continued to spread suspicion on Ghostlin for... what reason in particular? There doesn't seem to be anything you're holding against Ghostlin but you lined him up for a lynch tomorrow. Bad.

Re: Raivann being voteless: My meaning wasn't that he COULDN'T scum hunt. My meaning was that he gave himself a built in excuse for NOT scumhunting. It would be a brilliant scum play. He wouldn't be on any townie wagons, and nobody would question why he wasn't night killed, cause why would scum waste a kill on a voteless townie.

He’s

Not

Voteless

And while it doesn’t excuse him from scumhunting, I’d agree that his current level of scumhunting is not up-to-par given the amount of talk of simply letting him die today. But scum aren’t always stacked on Townie wagons. ScumRaivann is restricted to those smaller wagons which are still up for analysis.

How do you have setup info anyway?
Nevermind. I don't wanna know.

ITT camn rolefishes.

How in the

world

is that rolefishing if Newman has already given us his information? It’s almost certain that he got this information before the game started and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of way he can expand on it. camn’s question is setting off small alarms in my head too since she’s asking how he got the information and then retracting it. It’s like she wants to know but she doesn’t want to be the one responsible for Newman letting out any more information.

I'm more or less just gonna play observer and get reads on everyone.

Then you are going to die.
That is anti-town play, and I will not tolerate it.

Ohai ego

The fuck?

First:
Wagon on Ghost was quick. Not that that's bad as he's scum.

And you’re not on it. You’re currently sitting on Newman going “hey guys, I like this Ghostlin wagon, I think it’ll net us some scum”. Why are you voting Newman if you’re adamant that Ghostlin is scum?

Camn, threatening to vote a player who is, by most accounts, town does not reflect well on you. You never want to lose a town vote. Period. To suggest that he is anti town because he is not playing to your liking is bogus.

And this is a blatant misrepresentation of camn's point.

How do you figure? He said that his behavior was "anti town" and that he would "die". A clear threat if I ever saw one. Now, most people agree that Silver is town. Threatening to kill a pro town player, thus reducing the number of pro town votes, is bull.

Where did I misrepresent anything?

He didn’t.

By camn’s own admission, as evidenced by the usage of “anti-town” rather than “scummy”, she thinks silverbullet is Town rather than scum. Pacman comes in and calls it a misrep without any explanation, although this is normally how he plays so =_=

Point is, camn’s directing lynches and vig shots to somebody who she thinks is Town. That

is

a threat and I need to see pacman explain why he found that to be a misrep.

Strongest Town reads are tajo and camn.
I’d be up for a lynch of MrBump or possibly Nocmen/Seraphim if their plays start slipping. Pacman’s Mason claim buys him a bit of towncred but not enough to coast on.
I don’t get ThAdmiral’s wagon hop and whether he thought he was going to get away with jumping on the bandwagon so blatantly and so obviously.

Unvote: Nocmen
Vote: MrBump

[Olinea]

Camn, threatening to vote a player who is, by most accounts, town does not reflect well on you.

a player who is, by most accounts, town

by most accounts, town

A) Newman... there is no indication that silver is town. Your misrep is under the assumption that he is confirmed. He is not.

wat

If there is no indication that silver is Town, why do you keep calling his actions “anti-town” rather than “scummy”, camn? There is scum motivation in withholding information and coasting. So why haven’t you been calling it scummy?

[evilpacman18]

hmm let's try a lil something fun

VOTE: Zang
VOTE: Zang
VOTE: Zang


VOTE: Town and I auto-win
VOTE: Town and I auto-win
VOTE: Town and I auto-win

VOTE: Everyone

Net effect? Probably none, but let's test out my ultra powersssss

This is at least consistent with his town meta ._.

[Zang]

Votecount-

Seraphim - 1 - (Raivann) (L-6)
Empking - 1 - (Nocmen) (L-6)
Raivann - 3 - (Ghostlin,  HellloooNewman, Empking) (L-4)
HellloooNewman - 3 - (MrBump, camn, evilpacman18) (L-4)
Ghostlin - 2 - (Populartajo, ThAdmiral) (L-5)
MrBump - 1 - (Olinea) (L-6)

Not Voting:Silverbullet999, Seraphim

7 needed to lynch

Deadline is April 29 at 8:15 pm EST

[evilpacman18]

I'm not sure what he means by "Town and I." I'll reiterate, he was confirmed town in my role PM but that mod also said there's a good chance he'll lie to us. I'm not doing any assuming.

[HellloooNewman]

That's a fairly strong case on Mr. Bump. I can get behind this lynch.

Unvote/Vote Mr. Bump

[evilpacman18]

^I want his blood.

[Olinea]

I'm not sure what he means by "Town and I." I'll reiterate, he was confirmed town in my role PM but that mod also said there's a good chance he'll lie to us. I'm not doing any assuming.

No, this is actually a really good catch. Third party silverbullet?

Only trouble is that I really can't see any feasible way that you can expect a third party to perform halfway decent in a game where he's a) Third Party and b) Not allowed to post in-thread. I suppose the Mason thing helps but I'd definitely like to see silverbullet reason his way out of it.

[Seraphim]

I'm still here guys, been really busy lately, I'll have some stuff up soon.

[populartajo]

I can go for MrBump as well.

I think Ghostsilin is also scum.

[populartajo]

Oh, coffee yogurt. >_>

First you act like there definitely is a role blocker then cover your tracks with meta, then act like "scum wouldn't let Raivann do this" yet you're voting him. I don't gerrit. Eh, I was too brash anyway-

UNVOTE: Ghostlin
VOTE: HellloooScum

I'll be going after you tomorrow.

obv bussing.

[populartajo]

maybe not, let me think

If scum have a role blocker, it's really damn easy to say 'I was blocked: no result.

' Really damn easy. Like, I've seen in another setup where someone claimed Cop Day 1 and then spent the majority of the remaining days claiming he was blocked. He wasn't. He was scum.

Scum wouldn't let Raivann ever get a result and keep him alive for lynch bait.

This is a good observation. There are two contradicting stances in this paragraph, one where Raivann could be fakeclaiming watcher and consequent blocks and anotehr where scum wouldnt let Raivann ever get a result, however Ghostlin only considers the one where he is scum and votes him.

[camn]

Olinea:
This is really mafia-theory land, but I generally think of scummy ACTION as scummy, and scummy INACTION as 'anti-town'.
I frame it that way to avoid the "how is that scummy?" or "what is the scum motivation?" defense.
It encourages the target of my angst to prove me wrong, and desist in that behavior. THEN I can judge their ACTIONS as scummy or townie, you understand?
I specifically frame it that way, so that, for instance, if silver picked up his game and started posting.. and then I get a townread on him... I wouldn't have to deal with the crapcase of "you thought he was scummy now you dont wtf, flipflopper??!?".

I think pointing out anti-town behavior encourages strong town play, and by extension town WINS.
Also, it is less up for argument. Anti-town is generally objectively anti-town... wheras scummy is more subjective.

td:lr?
I can't get a read on nonaction. I just know it hurts the town, and deserves hellfire and brimstone.

[populartajo]

camn hdskhgkdsfg where is your ghostlin vote?

[camn]

I put it on Newman because he is scum?

[MrBump]

Olinea, clearly I have ONLY that reason that Ghostlin is scum and the every single other post on him I just skipped because he's town.

Are you actually serious? That's the worst misrep of me you've done in a long time, son. I think he's scummy for other reasns, and I'm still not happy with that post where he was acting like Raivann is town yet he's voting him.

Newman's newest posts are Godawful.

I did not say that Silver is confirmed town. I said that

most people

seem to believe that he is, at this time

GEE I WONDER WHO THE SOMEONE IS WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE HE IS!?!?
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!?!?!?

Confirm Vote: HellloooNewman

[Olinea]

Are you actually serious? That's the worst misrep of me you've done in a long time, son. I think he's scummy for other reasns, and I'm still not happy with that post where he was acting like Raivann is town yet he's voting him.

Show me these reasons. Post links and quotes to any sort of reasoning as to why you find Ghostlin scummy. I went through your ISO and you have posted absolutely

no

reasons to think Ghostlin is scummy outside of an incident in which

you

misunderstood his reasoning.

What MrBump thinks:

Ghostlin:

Raivann is Town and can just be Roleblocked every night.

Vote: Raivann

Reality:

Ghostlin:

If Raivann is scum, it's extremely convenient to just claim Roleblocked every night.

Vote: Raivann

You're posting abolutely no reasoning behind your Ghostlin vote besides you lack of understanding of his statement. You claim you think "Ghostlin is scummy for other reasons" but have 0 other reasons at any point in your ISO where you outline a case on Ghostlin. I call bullshit.

More votes on MrBump.

[MrBump]

I liked the part there where you completely ignored the other part of my post.

The reasons posted by OTHERS were the other reason. Sorry to meta, but remember SHM6? I got accused for parroting, I was town. I was apparently stealing points, and looking through my own games I do that

a lot

. So I decided there was no point in saying points already said, as we can all read, so I'm scummy for not saying them? Olinea, what do you want me to DO?

[camn]

keep your meta-defense out of here!

[Olinea]

The reasons posted by OTHERS were the other reason. Sorry to meta, but remember SHM6? I got accused for parroting, I was town. I was apparently stealing points, and looking through my own games I do that

a lot

. So I decided there was no point in saying points already said, as we can all read, so I'm scummy for not saying them? Olinea, what do you want me to DO?

So because you have a scummy meta, I should be excusing your scummy behavior?

Absolutely not.

Keep failing to specifically outline the reasoning behind your Ghostlin vote, I love it. If your only points on Ghostlin are ones raised by others then your lynch may turn to policy.

[ThAdmiral]

So scum is Newman, Seraphim, and ThAdmiral? Chill, chill, megachill. Seraphim needs to come back. Until then let's get this wagon going.

unvote, vote: hellooonewman

Also, ThAdmiral would unvote pretty soon because he's trying to distance but not trying to bus. I say would because now it's less likely that he will since I pointed it out. Let's not get into WIFOM though.

Distance myself from ghostlin?

That's a fairly strong case on Mr. Bump. I can get behind this lynch.

Unvote/Vote Mr. Bump

No, he's town.

More votes on MrBump.

Less votes on MrBump.