DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Percy]

\confirm

Whoa, five pages already! At work now, posting when I get home

[Percy]

Before we get started,

Q: How does the randomization process work?
A: Choices are resolved with a focus on first-choice maximization. I will begin by attempting to award each player his or her first choice. If multiple players are in contention for a single ability, random.org will determine who gets it. Once all possible first choices have been awarded, I will move on to the second choice echelon and attempt to award a second choice to each player who did not receive a first choice. This will continue, so on and so forth, until each player has received an ability.

I want everyone to be crystal clear on this. There were some players last game who thought you needed to choose missile silo, offensive troops or defensive troops, and

then

list the abilities in that subsection by preference. This is

not the case

.

For example, this is a perfectly valid preference list:

Preference list

1. Aircraft Carrier
2. Submarine
3. Espionage
4. Radar
5. Fail Safe
6. Missile Silo in Anti-Ballistic Missile Mode

So when it comes to choosing preferences, make sure you read all the rules carefully. Don't fuck things up, because it's anti-town.

Another thing to clear up:
1. There are both Active and Passive abilities that are extremely useful for the town,
2. There are pro-town reasons to target people with pro-town abilities.

Last game we had a (town) player claim a Radar result, which tracked a (town) player's Fighter ability to a (town) player who had deployed defensive troops. The first player accused the second of doing something shady, outing both roles; then the second player accused the third of being scum, because "only scum would want defensive troops". All three town PRs were outed and the resulting confusion was huge.

I also advise you all to read the flavour, it is fucking fantastic. Oh, and buy DEFCON, it's like $10 from Steam and it is so much fun.

A shame that there won't be any delicious code for me to translate. It was fun last time; cracking the Vigenere cipher when I didn't know the code word was particularly rewarding


My take on the abilities:

Fighter - An OK choice. This role should not reveal its information until it has caught someone in a lie, which will only happen if someone else claims. I wouldn't be sad if no-one took this ability, but it's OK.
Espionage - A great choice. This is basically a cop, but it's useful to the scum too. Expect it to be high on many people's lists.
Aircraft Carrier - An OK choice. It's good for the scum, especially in a LyLo situation, but it's good for town too; last game a scum player had their launch prevented.
Battleship - A great choice. This is basically a doc, and everything said for Espionage applies here too.
Radar - A good choice. It's a tracker role, and well worth taking.

Submarine - This gives one player an untrackable vig kill. I'd say most people want it, but few would be willing to admit they have it. Expect it to be high on many player's lists.
Eavesdrop - A good choice. At least one scumteam is going to have a hard time nighttalking, but expect to wrangle with a lot of WIFOM until your head hurts.
Air Base - The only thing that can kill you is nukes and lynches, so it's a good choice, but you're also immune to things like Fighter and Espionage, so people will probably freak out.
Fallout Shelter - In my opinion this is less useful than Air Base, but still useful.
Fail Safe - An extremely anti-town power to take.

Missile Silo - Most people will be getting these. I strongly suggest you have it in Anti-Ballistic mode and keep it there.


I see that Toogeloo has vis opinions on the abilities here, check those out too.

Can we be renamed 'Mericans please?

Come on, it's pronounced Meerkins!

We should pick someone by consensus who we believe is town to have them take one of the obviously pro-scum abilities.

I thought this was a bad idea last game, and I think it's a bad idea this game. We don't want the scum to know where abilities are, especially the good ones. We don't even want to give them a head start. I

strongly

suggest we leave ability selection up to each individual person, and don't try to game the system in any way. Gains for town are negligible, gains for scum are much more.

The last game was pretty big on Ciphers, codebreaking and stuff like that. (Percy was so badass last game, decrypting ciphers by pen and paper. That's where I got my mental image of him 8D.). It'll be nice if the people who take eavesdrop know about that too.

As far as I can tell, there will be no obfuscation of the english language (i.e. no codes), but I can imagine there will still be workarounds.

What do you guys say about a sub claim? It was a discussion we had from last game. Although, Scum did get the sub so it wasn't really a big deal. But, suppose an American gets the sub: Should he claim or not?

No. They should claim at the beginning of DEFCON 1 and let the town direct the kill.

In case anyone is interested, the first game is here, and might be a good idea to read over.

For the record, this attitude:

MY NUKE ISNT GOING TO RESULT FROM A TOWN CIRCLE JERKING, I.E. DONT BOTHER TRYING TO CONTROL IT WITH PSEUDO-VOTES.
MY NUKE IS THE NUKE THAT SHALL PIERCE THE HEAVENS.

...is going to earn votes from me. The more nuke-crazy we get, and the more we rely on personal decision making when it comes to nukes, the harder things will be for the town.

And in the current spirit of the thread,

FUCK

YEAH!!!

[Percy]

Two reasons.

1. I hope that all nukes that are fired in this game are sanctioned to some degree by the town. I am going to work very hard to achieve this. Fail Safe means you can't nuke a player, which is an unnecessary complication.
2. It is far more likely that someone is going to get nuked by town than by the scum, simply by the numbers. If you're town, you're probably going to end up killing someone that is town with the ability. This is not good.

[Percy]

Last game we had a (town) player claim a Radar result, which tracked a (town) player's Fighter ability to a (town) player who had deployed defensive troops.

There were some players last game who thought you needed to choose missile silo, offensive troops or defensive troops, and then list the abilities in that subsection by preference. This is not the case.

Glad to know I made a good first impression on you, Percy.

Hey, I didn't name names

And oh man, you were so much better than Enigma

Nukes will be flying, despite the attempts at constant manipulation by the peace loving one-world government hippies.

I like how you snuck "government" in there. Lolwut?

I'm actually serious. I know that nukes are the "idea" behind the game, but playing this game as if we didn't have them, but we have additional lynches, is actually the best thing we can do as town.

Unless it's sanctioned by the playerbase, no-one should nuke. If you disagree, then say why, kthx.

I'd blast PERCY at this point.
IGMNOY

[Percy]

V/LA for two days

- Off to celebrate my wedding anniversary!

I have sent in my preferences, though

[Percy]

All of those with this attitude:

Percy, I disagree. I want to be a hero and nuke scumz

... you know who you are. I realise that I am not in a strong majority here in wanting this game to be relatively nuke-free. But in my experience, vigs hit town more often than scum, simply because there are more town to go around. You may be convinced of your own super scumhunting skills, but imagine this scenario:

Townie 1: *blah blah blah*
Townie 2: That second "blah" consitutes excellent evidence of your scumminess, sir! Nukes away!

Townie 1 flips Town

Townie 3: You nuked town! You disgusting communist, Nukes away!

Townie 2 flips Town

Rinse repeat.

The problem is that if you're wrong and nuke a townie, it is relatively easy for someone else to conjure up a case against you and nuke you too.

And even if you actually nuke scum, it is in no way proof of your towniness - the Russians and the Chinese want to kill each other too.

The arguments in favour of this approach are thin, to say the least. It seems to boil down to "But I want to be (the motherfucking / the goddamned) Batman", "I want to be a daykiller", etc.

There seems to be some salient discussion from Toogeloo:

How does someone following a town direction to kill prove alignment? If they are scum and town majority wants another town dead, did he just confirm himself when he shot the guy? Leaving individual kills to group consensus opens the avenue of allowing that kill to be manipulated by the informed minority. A little persuasion here, a little charisma there, next thing you know, you've got a vig controlled by the mafia.

In answer to your first question, it doesn't, and shouldn't. It should be viewed as pro- and anti-town, in their usual (somewhat) divorced sense from scum and not-scum. And secondly, your argument seems to defeat itself. If we talk about our nukes and demand sanctions from the town, it is entirely possible that we might be manipulated into misfiring. But isn't that how one catches mafia in other games as well? The mafia try, through charisma and persuasion, to make themselves be not lynched and for others to be lynched. It's analysing these motives that makes almost every case ever made. Attaching the same weight to nuking as lynching seems to me the only sensible thing to do.

It sounds like you want to set up a chain. Town convinces a nuke to shoot another town, someone on the decision must have been scum, so we shoot/lynch him.

Urgh. Who said anything about a chain? You see the potential for chaining, so it's bad? The idea is to treat nuking like lynching. I've played in many games where the scum have been completely absent from a mislynching wagon. You don't have to exhort us to play smart, or insinuate that attempting to monitor the motives for nuking amounts to setting up a townie death line.

Its not a policy lynch. Its nowhere NEAR the same. Its a policy vig, which I endorse and I Love and is what vigs were fucking made for.

I'm with Fate on this one, strangely enough. I think a very good use of vigs is to clear the game of lurkers and hard-to-read VIs. I still believe their behaviour should be manifestly bad and a case for their removal should be presented, but I don't mind splitting the atom to clear the game of morons.

The only rule about nuking should be "don't be stupid".

Er, sure.

Percy uses good words.

Why thank you, sir. But I'm firmly in the anti-MURDER DEATH SPREE camp...

This thread so far makes me want to cry long and hard. Unlike the rest of you, I am willing to admit that this isn't going to go anywhere until DEFCON 4, and furthermore, I am willing to say that I will not even attempt to analyze this thread until DEFCON 4. So see you guys then.

Hey, our first scum, busily plotting in his QT, still reading the game.

FoS: danakillsu

There's no reason why anyone needs to "sanction" nuking, unless, obviously, we are approaching the end of the game.

Why is it that sanctioning nuking is a bad thing? I think getting as many people involved in the nuking process and limiting the chaos a nuke-filled game promises is a good idea. Is there any reason why we shouldn't sanction nuking?

BY THE WAY.

If you want to hang me cause I nuke without your permission, you can do it. But when you lose cause you lynched me for no goddamn reason, you're gonna be feeling like a dumbass.

I see you're pre-empting your nuking of a townie. Should I make you a sign that says "I HATE USA PLEASE SEND NUKES HERE"?

FoS: gandalf5166

NUKES ARE THE FUCKING POINT OF THE GAME. THEY WERE NOT PUT IN AS ADDITIONAL LYNCHES. THEY WERE PUT IN AS NUKES. IF THE MOD HAD WANTED ADDITIONAL LYNCHES, HE WOULD HAVE MODDED LIGHTS OUT. THANK YOU. I'M TAKING A NAP UNTIL DEFCON 3 NOW. AND AT DEFCON ONE, I'LL NUKE WHOEVER I DAMN WELL PLEASE.

This post is so fail I don't even.
Appealing to the intentions of the moderator is a grevious fallacy in itself, but your argument doesn't even make sense. Because it's possible for everyone to nuke everyone else, it should happen?

If we are going to direct nukes, let's take it a step further. Let's direct our scanners/protectors who to scan and doc/rb, hmm? Let's take away the free will of a player who has a read, or wants to use the fear factor of the nuke, and do the same with our other PRs as well. I make it sound pretty drastic, huh? Directing anyone's play style is pretty worthless, and just because a person may have a nuke doesn't mean they don't have a plan for said nuke. We can't launch until DEFCON 1 anyways, at which point there will be a few dead players, 4 phases worth of reading, and plenty of targets/gambits worth playing out. Anyone trying to inhibit nuke use needs to chill until DEFCON 1 imo.

Your

in extremis

argument is horseshit, and you know it is. Directing the town's PRs is obviously not a good idea for more reasons than just depriving one player of the ability to act on their own reads. I think players should be free to pick and use their abilities at their leisure. The only exception is nuking, and my arguments for why that should be the case are clear.

In reply to AV, Jed took the words right out of my mouth:

Well, DEFCON 1 isn't here yet and I'm not willing to cave to your inevitable pessimism.

Enough said.

fate I will bet you moneyz that Dana is town

I'll take you up on this bet. Why do you think this is the case?

bobsnox is my current favourite for lurkerscum who spends more time in his QT than in this thread. Bunnylover and Katsuki as well.

Jed, you're not doing the "let's control nukes" camp any favours by railing against gandalf the way you are. I think you're town, though.

Here, I'll humor you:

What % of the kill is town controlled if the whole town controls the kill?

What % of the kill is town controlled if the townie with the silo controls the kill?


This is why confirmed vigs do whatever the hell they want to.

Maths fail. You left out:

What % of the kill is town controlled if the scum with the silo controls the kill?

... and including it means it all comes out in the wash. At the very least, my plan encourages discussion, accountability and reason.

Internet Stranger should be lynched or nuked before LyLo. His Palinesque rhetoric makes me think of those preachers who rail against homosexuality with fiery words before being caught in Bolivia with a stable of rent boys - I think he doth pro-America too much.

Why not Percy who's made just as many posts, one of which is an EASY way to look pro-town, and the other which was just as useless as dana?

I don't see how what I posted was an easy way to look pro-town. Why do I even come up in this discussion you're having with Fate? I know you're trying to demonstrate inconsistency in Fate's arguments, but this is stretching.

To end this wall, I'll reiterate:
If you nuke someone and don't have the support of the town (that is to say, you can't point to at least half the players' assertions that X is/may be scum), I will do everything I can to secure your lynch.

[Percy]

- What if that person presents a very good argument for why they think their target is scum, that you happen to agree with, but half the town disagree with; do you then go after their lynch?

This hypothetical is too vague for me. If there are good arguments put forward for nuking and none for not-nuking, then probably not. If there is violent disagreement directed against myself and the nuker, then probably.
I think your question boils down to, would I put my reads or the plan first? And the answer to that cannot be divorced from the success of the plan up until then. If everyone is ignoring me, then of course I'll ditch the plan in favour of my reads.
^This goes for your second one as well.

- What do you make of the argument that VIs and uncaring townies are likelier to nuke sans sanctions, and that scum are likely to do the opposite?

Hmm, weasel words here make me . I'd say that's the good old "2SCUM4SCUM" argument in fancy new purple tights.

We could have half a dozen people with nukes every day in DEFCON 1. Do we restrict people on their nuke use?

Er, what? We will have at least 7 players (I think) with nuclear silos when DEFCON 1 begins. And that last question - is it rhetorical? Huh?

[Percy]

Read the Silo rule... you can launch once a day. So ... no, it wasn't rhetorical. We could have multiple nukers every day once we hit DEFCON 1.

I'm very familiar with the rules of this game.

Since it wasn't a rhetorical question, I'll answer: Yes.

What do you think?

[Percy]

*push button* *push button* *push button*

For now, all you get is bacon:

@Jack

: The launch buddy idea is nice; still, with bacon boy over here I think you're not going to struggle to find someone to back you up, which is the problem.

Toogeloo basically ignored my post. Here is my question again:

We could have half a dozen people with nukes every day in DEFCON 1. Do we restrict people on their nuke use?

You said this. What is your own answer to this question? Do you have any proposals?
A third, related question: What is your opinion of the

pages

of discussion about this issue already?
Your question is really quite odd.

[Percy]

Just noticed something:

{On the first day of DEFCON 1, you may launch a nuclear weapon without revealing yourself as the aggressor. For the rest of the game, you may launch nuclear weapons as though you possessed a missile silo in nuclear launch mode.}

{You may launch nuclear weapons as though you possessed a missile silo in nuclear launch mode without revealing yourself as the aggressor.}

I didn't notice the change. Sub is much easier to catch now.

Btw is it worth it to double-nuke people, so that even if they are in defensive mode, they still die? I feel like it is, since it would halve the number of nukes, and ensure that all nuked people died.

This plan is crazy.
chesskid has been "I want to be Batman and nuke scumz". Now he's advocating organising the town to make sure every nuke is a double nuke. Which is it?
I'm going to go with that you think planning ahead is a good idea, assigning two players to nuke and using these nukes like a lynch - that is, that you forgot everything you said before.
Even then, why shoot two nukes when one will do? Shoot one, then shoot another if the first one fails.


Toogeloo tells us to leave nuking to whoever and not to hype the nuke, while essentially giving people permission to nuke for pressure. It's obvious to me that nuking like crazy will create chaos and will probably cost the town the game. Restricting people on their nuke use makes a lot of sense.


Come on DEFCON 3!

[Percy]

Jed went from I am a martyr for the cause of the holy and just town controlled nukes to I'm nukin gan first chance I get.

As far as I see Jed is being called scum for being loud and lioudly saying things that are loud because he has to stick to said loudness and can't back dwon because he's already chosen his "fake townie mask" or some shit.

Hmmm. I think Jed's turnaround was emotion driven, and I think Fate's read is better. A little later there's this exchange:

He threw in all his dice on the vig's and when that didn't float it became abundantly clear his 150+ posts were NOT actually a stance he cared about.

This is nonsense. He got pissed when people weren't going to follow the plan he cared about and said "well **** you then". That's evidence that he DID care.

Again I agree with not-SpyreX. I'm crediting his latter argument to frustration than his former argument to disingenuous scumlogic.

*LURKS UNTIL VOTES ACTIVATE*

VOTE: JED

*GOES BACK TO LURKERING*

Urgh. I'm assuming he means nukes...

And before Fate asks, between dana and Jed, I would lean towards Jed's lynch, but he doesn't need more votes right now.

I really didn't like this. Jed was L-6, and Toogeloo voted Baby Spice...?

Where do you get this shit? Bunch of god damn communist retards, seriously.

I am so seriously going to nuke the fuck out of anyone else that accuses me of lurking. Is this some sort of communist scum ploy? Because if it is, its the dumbest scum tactic. EVER.

Jed and Jack, communist idiots. IMBECILES! Seriously.

Again I get the feeling that this attitude is far too over the top. This is scum language, imo.

Pound for pound, IS has more content than most.

Defending IS, Spy? Really?
And when you defended him based on post count, that was hilarious. So many posts of IS's are just
I'M
TOO AMERICAN FOR MY SHIRT
TOO AMERICAN FOR MY SHIRT
SO AMERICAN IT HUUUUURTS
...

Sorry, I've been really busy the last few days. It's probably not going to be that much better over Christmas, but I'll try to stop by once a day.

Vote: JedCooper

I'd rather see Jed go than Dana, atm. The sheer number of posts seems like an overcompensation for something; and as Spy has pointed out, most of that is this "control the nukes" strategy that he seemed to push so hard that it looks disingenuous to me now that he's abandoned it. It looks like he tried to work himself out of the corner he had gotten himself stuck in, but did it too soon or too explicitly. If he'd stuck to his guns, I probably would have treated it as misguided or optimistic principles, but the "I'MA NUKE GANDALF" doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention, I have no idea why he'd say that if he was never intending to put Silo on his preference list.

As for Dana, I get that his "DEFCON 5 SUXX" vs "DEFCON 4 WOO CONTENT" seemed arbitrary, which I think is a legitimate point against him, but I don't think it's as strong as Jed's insistence on/dropping of his strategy combo.

Did we ever agree about Sub claiming or not? I don't think that town should fear outing themselves as having it, as they don't really need to hide their kills.

This post is scum city.

Firstly, it seems quite obvious to me that Jed overreacted and is being punished for it. "He posts so much, he must be scum" is one of the most terrible arguments ever, and I think controlling the nukes is extremely pro-town. It seems like AV has spotted some logical contradictions or places where Jed didn't think things through, and has concluded that it makes Jed scum. AV, you're better than that!

And then there's a wishy-washy position on dana before talking about sub claiming, which is nothing but a distraction.

And RedCoyote said he liked this post! Why?!

Make people claim their submitted lists before they die.

This idea is OK, I guess. More information is better than less information, and we could possibly catch scum. However, the danger is that people may get fixated on the content. For example, last game I got a lot of flack from a player for choosing Eavesdrop, because only scum would do that, apparently. It could introduce a lot of unneccesary WIFOM, and the players who are stealth bombed won't be able to help us assess our preferences. Its benefits are dubious at best, and could even lead to outing of PRs.

Overall, I'd say players who are going to be lynched or nuked should include their preference list with their claim, but we should be mindful of all the stuff I just said.

Liking AV again this game (Post 454)

I did a serious when you said this. You were scum last game...? This makes no sense.

Scum are probably going to be exceptionally careful about nuking someone in this game.

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
This is not only not true, but you're making it sound like you should get town points for nuking carelessly.
2scum4scum is a

fallacy

to be

avoided

.

I didn't notice the change. Sub is much easier to catch now.

How do you figure? It looks, if anything, more difficult to catch. In the last game you only got one "hidden" nuke, but in this game it looks like all the nukes are hidden.

Because a sub defaulted to a silo in the old game, and we'll have at least 10 people in this game with silos. The claim "I got a silo like everyone else" is not available to the person who got the sub. Therefore, they'll be easier to catch.

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

dana
Toog
IS
Jed
bunny
bob
av
Kat

That's almost half the game... Even if 7 of the 8 flip town, if that 8th flips scum, I guarantee Fate will be like, "I told you so, my reads are awesome!"

I absolutely

hated

this post. You're clearly not a noob, and trying to make someone look bad for doing

too much scumhunting

makes my head spin.


Hmmm....

Vote: AurorusVox

HoS: InternetStranger

FoS: SpyreX

FoS: Toogeloo

FoS: RedCoyote

dana and gandalf had FoS's from me before, so together they're my preliminary suspects.


As for the dropped messages:

from the first post by mod here skipping duplicate words

Whatever.

Appear clean dare fyi furry -naturally.

I believe the first post is the key to a code one of the scum factions are using. Without being able to see it, it is completely useless at this time.
The second post may be complete misdirection, or again some sort of code. We'll have to wait for more messages to assess whether they're using a code via pattern analysis.

[Percy]

V/LA today (and yesterday)

- Chest infection
Will hopefully be up to posting tomorrow.

[Percy]

Reading now, posting soon!

[Percy]

This post is a wall, and due to board issues I've had to split it in half.
If you're in a rush, the most important part of my post is my case against chesskid, which is the post after this one.

---

If you think it is pro-town for him to want to control nukes, what do you make of him saying "Fuck this shit, I'll happily nuke Gandalf", especially considering that he has explicitly stated that he doesn't want a silo anywhere on his ten-strong preference list?

It doesn't make any sense at all. That's the point. He's contradicting himself in frustration, not hatching a diabolical scumscheme.

And yes, I treat logical inconstancies as scumtells. Holding people to a standard of consistency is a great way of catching scum who aren't honest about their intentions.

Sure, inconsistencies are a great way to find scum. They're also really easy to catch some townies on as scum and gain a mislynch with a rock-solid defence.

(3) Well I figured that if we wanted the sub to claim we probably ought to say so, so that scum doesn't keep quiet and then later on say "Oh yeah I have the sub sorry didn't realise I was meant to out myself."

Do

you

want the sub to claim? I understand that making things clear is good, but you have no opinion?

---

I absolutely

hated

this post. You're clearly not a noob, and trying to make someone look bad for doing

too much scumhunting

makes my head spin.

Except he didn't

do

any real scum hunting, besides

possibly

bunny. Everyone else was a generalized statement about activity, most things that had been mentioned at some point prior, and continued to push the, "dana and toog scumteam because they are buddiez," argument.

See, he didn't say that. He pointed out how crazy it was for Fate to have too many scum reads; now he's upgraded his argument (under pressure) to "his scumhunting wasn't strong enough".

So let's conveniently ignore this sidestep and concentrate on this new argument. His original post was in response to this one from Fate. It was drunkposting and there was elements of summary, but there was a lot of content that wasn't "generalized statements about activity".

The fact that he went for the "how can you have 8 suspects lol", then changed the argument to something else under pressure, and didn't respond to the content of Fate's post makes me think Toog is probscum.

Anyone not of Fate or me change your votes now please.

Why do you think Fate is scum? Is it purely because you challenged him to produce a case and he didn't?
Or is it this piece of shit?

I'd argue that Fate started this whole mess when he tried to incriminate me for not taking a stance on dana way back in DEFCON 5. Got a little gruff when I mentioned something scummy about him, and since then it's been a "no U!" contest pointing back and forth, me with snarky remarks and him with "MWHAHAHAHAHA!"

---

Further, I am saying, pound for pound, if one reads the TOO AMERICAN dance almost ALL of those are at least actual balls out X is scum or Y is town business versus Jed's amazing amount of... nothing.

Is this an argument that Jed is more likely scum, or the town will be slightly more well off in the case of a mislynch?

---

subtle OMGUS

*facepalm*

---

Right now Dana and my wagons are even, so YEAH I'D EXPECT YOU TO RAISE NEW POINTS AND EXPAND ON YOUR CASE IF YOU WERE TRYING TO GET ME LYNCHED.
>
Not sit there with your head up your ass and go "that's a shitty ME-vote Fate!" and "Wow lurkers are lurking! Prods please!??!? IM DOING GODS WORK HERE PEOPLE!"

This is a nice characterisation of Toog.

---

I do think, however, that taking one radical positon and then gradually sliding to the other side of the scale in the way JC did is peculiar. Peculiar enough to justify a vote? Most definitely.

Your characterisation of Jed's position is off. I don't think his position was radical to begin with, and there wasn't a gradual slide. It's quite clear to me that he gave up in frustration and posted this:

Only if you are unclaimed Gandalf. If you are trying to say that a claimed dayvig shouldn't be used as town, that is only an argument from scum.

HAHAHAHAHA. Yes. You never direct a vig, because SCUM can influence a directed vig.

Excuse me but you claim vig in a an open setup where the vig can be town or scum, and you DON'T allow the town to influence your vig? That is only scum hiding in the vig claim and is lynched.

No. I don't. If you think otherwise for some fuckin weird reason, you can go to hell.

Americans have two separate factions it seems as well...

OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.

There's nothing gradual about this; it's an explosion of frustration at anti-town crap.

You're reading too much into this, but, more than that, it's really taken out of context. This comment had to do with the Fail Safe power and why it would be more likely to hit town. I didn't mean for it to be read as though town players would be more careless about nuking. It was purely a statistical argument.

Explain to me how the context helps:

But you should understand that not everyone might be able to make the best use of all the power roles. Like Percy concluded, the Fail Safe is probably not a great roll for town. If someone is nuking you, statistically they have better odds of being Americans than anything else. Scum are probably going to be exceptionally careful about nuking someone in this game.

Scum are going to be careful about nuking because they may hit the fail safe, but it's a bad role for townies to take and they should avoid it?

---

Part of me wants this Toog v.s. Fate debate to be over with, both shut the hell up, and actually try to find real scum. The two most vocal people are at each other throat. Fate attacks Toog for having his vote on him, they fight, Toog switches his vote which to me is what Fate wanted, then Fate attacks him for switching to his next scum target. To me is all completely idiotness.
To be honest, I only see this situation from both of them.
They are both Town.
They are both Scum on the same team.

This whole ordeal just seems to me set-up

, which is why I am considering them both scum on the same team.

Explain the bolded?

[Percy]

The case against chesskid3

Scum:
IS
Fate


Different scumteams. Calling it now.

So, chesskid thinks Fate is scum, for reasons he gives much later...?

No, Fate's suggestion of nuking ~ 5 players in game is horribad, since most are likely town. It's a cheap equivalent of a policy lynch to remove most likely 3-4 townies for free, and is scummy as fuck.

OK, I'm starting to get it, Fate is scum because he wants to nuke for policy reasons. Given that chesskid wants to be "The Batman", I don't think there can be much conviction here...
Then there's this odd bit:

fate I will bet you moneyz that Dana is town

This sounds like something you'd say to someone who is town, not someone you think is scum...?
Toog follows up:

Fate lumped him in the, "VI and detriment to town category," too ya'know.

so what Fate is doing is trying for easy town lynches, is that what you're saying?

Looks Policy Lynch-ish to me, which is just as anti-town... But he does this as town too, so it's not really a tell if that's what you mean.

Toog doesn't take the bait, but chesskid really wanted him to. Then there's some epic hedging:

Fate I can't read for shit, but all his reads are off at best.
Oh and Toog might be scum, but it's like 50 50

And now we get to the first vote,

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU LYNCHING JED

Vote: Toog

The bandwagon was started by SpyreX, so why is Toog being singled out? I don't know. I kinda expected him to vote for Gandalf or SP at this point.
He is then asked about the contradictions by Toog, and he responds:

no support for the others. derp.

Urrrgh. His top reads are ignored in favour of a bandwagon, which is pretty scummy.
Now Toog votes Fate, and chesskid jumps on the wagon straight away:

Unvote

Vote: Fate

Given that he's had a lot to say about Toog's alignment, I expected a bit more of an explanation, because this is not fitting together at all.
Then there is a lot of nothing but setup talk (should we claim lists, blah blah), and then this is the kicker: Fate starts a big push against Toog, and chesskid jumps on that too!

Unvote

Vote: Toog

biggest scumread tha ta wagon is posible on

Then quickly votes Gandalf

for jumping on the wagon he's on

with this:

unvote
VOTE: Toog

... before voting Fate again!

Unvote

Vote: Fate

Nothing chesskid has done has made any sense, at all. It seems like a lot of words riddled with contradicting reads. He has exploited Fate vs. Toog for all it's worth, in turns buddying with both sides and joining both wagons.

Unvote: AurorusVox
HoS: AurorusVox
Vote: chesskid3

I really, really liked my AV vote, so I may go back to it at some point. If forced to choose between Toog and Fate I'd choose to lynch Toog. But chesskid is my best read.

[Percy]

So you were voting Toog for being scum, and because Toog said "It's me or Fate", you're now voting Fate, because you don't support a lynch on Toog.

How does the start and the end of that sentence even begin to fit together?

Why did you listen to Toog when he said "it's Fate or me"?

You voted Fate in post 738. You voted Toogeloo in post 940. Toogeloo said "Fate or me" in post 964. Then you re-voted Fate in post 981. Why does Toog making it "Fate or Toog" have any relevance to your voting history at all?

What does this sentence:

biggest scumread tha ta wagon is posible on

...even mean?

Why do you think there is zero support for a gandalf lynch?

Is it fair to say you don't like making cases

at all

?

Congrats on addressing absolutely nothing. I'm impressed.

[Percy]

a fate d1 lynch is a possiblity again

When did it become not a possibility?

Gandalf has no votes, so OBVIOUSLY THERE IS NO SUPPORT.

No words. None.

Biggest scumread that a wagon is possible on.
Should be obvious what that means.

So you're saying "most viable wagon from my scumreads". OK, let's roll with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the (relevant parts of the) vote count just before you moved your vote from Fate to Toog looked like this:

Fate (5) - Toogeloo, chesskid3, bunnylover, danakillsu, Katsuki
Toogeloo (3) - Fate, Jack, Sociopath

What made you conclude that a wagon on Toogeloo was viable, and not on Fate? Your vote switch made it four votes each.
And two of the three votes on the wagon you switched to were people you had devoted quite a bit of time to calling them scum.

Flail more, plz.

[Percy]

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN FATE LYNCHED ON D1?

If you honestly thought that the wagon wasn't viable and would never end in a lynch, then why did you spend so long voting for him?

Your argument to explain away your inconsistencies has been that you only vote when you think it's going to be a lynch. Now you're saying that a Fate lynch D1 is an impossibility.

You can't have it both ways, bucko.

[Percy]

I rest my case.

[Percy]

My top four:

Chesskid3

Because if I seriously get lynched it should be rather obvious that gandalf+scumbuddies+otherscumteam are pushing it pretty goddamn heavily?

The person who pushed the case against you was me. You haven't responded to any of it. Casting aspersions on your wagon rather than responding to the case in a sensible manner is relaly poor form. Who the fuck cares if gandalf has no votes?! You have a vote, you have a keyboard. No, instead you just cry about how everyone on your wagon is scum.

Unvote
Vote: Toog

sjfoajsfojasidfjaojuighuiwrfjaouisfjioajfioajfioajdsiofjaodsif
50/50 means I don't know but he's scummier than a null
you people are really quite stupid.

This came together with some complicated argument about how 80:20 is null and 50:50 is scum. I have already pointed out his shifting attitude towards the Fate/Toog debate yesterday, and this took the opportunism cake.

unvote

Chesskid3 lynch would be amazing. I'll throw a vote down after he contradicts himself some more.

This post struck me as really, really odd. An unvote and perhaps implied support for the wagon, but no participation. I don't get it. I also don't get the more-than-12-hours-since-hammer-quote-dana-and-vote-during-twilight, where he put his vote back on Toogeloo. This stinks.

Oh btw horrible thought.

I

f scum

get

battleship and

failsafe

the failsafe guy can't be killed without two town deaths(or a lynch+nuke) unless the battleship dies first

I

just had an

am

azing idea.
Come D1, if

the failsafe

is town, they can claim, and we can pseudo lynch, with the victim (if they have a silo) being required to nuke the failsafe, then cancel the launch, and someone else can be lynched.
Would that work?

That's my claim, btw.
So if you want to just force gandalf to nuke me on D3 I'd also be more than happy with that. But if you seriously lynch me D2 and let him live, I'm going to kick all of you in the balls postgame.

No, you were not claiming there. This was not your breadcrumb, I refuse to believe it. Why would you speculate publicly about the horrible scenario where scum get the failsafe if you already have it? Similarly, your next great idea involved the sentence "if the failsafe is town", and all it would do would confirm that a particular player had the failsafe - it would say nothing about their alignment.

I think your claim is horseshit. You may be trying to justify your terrible choices after-the-fact now that attention is on you, but the fact that you claimed and scrambled for these awful breadcrumbs makes you look even worse.

Bunnylover

Interesting turns of event.
I can't tell if Toog is claiming because he's just given up, or he claiming just to shut Fate up.

Epic hedging.

As I said before, that interaction did not look like a Town v.s. Town.

Vote: Fate

This is really, really manipulative opportunism that I see here. How did you reach the conclusion that the conversation they were having was such that one of them has to be scum? It's such a weak position to take. Who is the scum in this scenario? The guy who is still alive. How convenient.

@Fate: Who says I need to post my other reads? I know who my other reads are, if I feel that I am going to die during the night or something then I'll post my reads and explain them. Otherwise, I'm keeping them to myself for now. I do not believe the interaction was T v.s. T. Since Toog flipped town, I am assuming you will flip scum and until a better suspect that I find or someone else points out comes along, my vote will stand.

See:

Because "herp derp one read at a time" SMELLS of a convenient way to say "I only want to be held accountable for one read at a time." ESPECIALLY since your reasoning is really vague "it just didnt feel town v town" with no extra explanation giving. It makes it hard to get a read on your alignment Bunny.

Also the fact that you unvoted Fate (even though you still think he's scum) just because he's a good scumhunter is odd in the extreme.

AurorusVox

Percy; so are you saying that as scum he'd have been more likely to stick to his position, i.e. NOT give up on the plan, and that his decision to nukebbq Gandalf was entirely without malicious scum intent? I can understand that inconsistency comes out of frustration, but I've used inconsistencies many a time to catch scum (it's my favourite method), and that frustration can easily come from scum who are getting backed into a corner. If it is as you say - "No one's listening to me, I'll just do as I please!" then Jed wasn't as committed to the control-nuke plan as he proposed. Which looks to me like that was sneaky sneaky lying, or him parading as pro-town. This is why I think his shift is likelier scum motivated than town motivated.

This hypothetical isn't working for me.
I think his first position (control nukes) was pro-town, but of course could be faked by scum. But when he flipped out, you and others said "He never believed in the first proposition, therefore this contradiction proves he was scum faking it". I don't see how Jed was being backed into a corner and was forced into the inconsistency - he kinda raged right into it.

I just don't get the argument that the first

x

posts of Jed's were some complicated pro-town scumdance, and that pesky gandalf made him lose his cool and retaliate with scummy nukethreats. This story makes no sense to me.

You also asked dana (who voted Fate)

Are you calling his vote an OMGUS?

This kind of post seems like fanning the flames here. We have Fate, who seems to lock on with all caps and get his lynch, and AV, prodding dana to oppose Fate. I don't like it.

danakillsu

I'll hammer, since it's going to happen anyway, but before I do, I should say that I did not take Toog's scumclaim to be serious. But others seem to believe it is, and there's no way I'm convincing a group this dumb that it's not before midnight tomorrow. Well, here goes nothing.

unvote vote: Toogeloo

"You are so dumb, I'm going to give you what you want even though it's going to turn out badly"

vote: Fate

I told you not to lynch Toog, you kept after him anyway, and he eventually just claimed scum because he knew lynching him would be best for us even though he was town. It's time for you to pay up for your "scumhunting" methods.

He told Fate not to lynch Toog, guys! He was saying it would go badly!

Urrgggh. dana smells strongly of scum.

3. Why would I try to scumhunt outside of the person I most believe is scum? This is your problem, attacking 3 people at once. This does not help the town, as no one can tell what you really think. Not everyone can be scum, and it's best to be sure about one person.

This is terrible. We are in multiscum, so tunnelling on one person is exactly the worst thing we should be encouraging. The scum want the other scum to be dead, so they're going to be looking for them just as hard as the town are. Honing in on one target at a time is an excuse to ignore cases on your scumbuddies, but still do scumhunting. Far too convenient.

Important to note

My list had every role on it, and I still got Silo, so know that every role is in the game.

Vote: chesskid3

Unofficial VC:

chesskid3 - 5 (Fate, Gandalf, Baby Spice, AV, Percy)
dana - 3 (SpyreX, Fate, SP)
Snake - 1 (RC)
Gandalf - 1 (Katsuki)
Katsuki - 1 (Faraday)
Fate - 1 (danakillsu)
IS - 1 (bobsnox)
bobsnox - 1 (IS)

[Percy]

Just back briefly today from my V/LA, but to point out form the last few games I have been in recently, CHess is being Chess and Fate is being Fate, however in my last game (Now ended) Fate was much the same using his FATE SMASH method and was scum (Mole Scum infact) so I have reason to believe that he is playing the scum role once more and just trying to shout/post the loudest until everyone follows him.

Vote Fate

If Fate is being Fate, why is he being scum Fate? You say "He was being Fate in my last game and he was scum", but that doesn't mean anything.

ssfkapsfaskdf

scrambled for a breadcrumb

that was magically there

in two consecutive posts


that i psoted within minutes


adsfiaiosdjfasidfjasodf

do you even think?

Yes. You speculated openly about how it would be terrible for scum to get failsafe when you know you had it, then tried to hatch a plan that would confirm your choice of power but not alignment. None of this has to do with whether you are scum or not, even if I buy your breadcrumb.

I'm happy to force gandalf to nuke me tomorrow under threat of a lynch. Clearly he thinks I'm scum based on vote, so he'll have no problem going 1-1 with "scum" and being a hero eh?

Why do you think gandalf is scum?

Why would Bunny say something as stupid as that?

The fact remains that he did.

I thought I said it was a T v.s. S or a S v.s. S. I was wrong. Let me ask you this, what motivation does Scum have to do something like this? What motivation does Scum have trying to lynch one of the most vocal person if they just created a mislynch and therefore they will probably create more mislynches? If I am scum, I have no motivation to try and get you lynch yet.

OK, if you thought that was the case,

why

did you think that?
And your "there is no scum motivation" is very flawed and is basically a WIFOM sandwich.

Percy, who do I trust out of Group 6?

SnakePlissken
SocioPath
SpyreX

I think Snake is probably town, because I had a pretty solid town read of Jed Cooper.
I think SocioPath is actually doing some scumhunting, which is quite nice. That says nothing about his alignment, though, as we are in multiscum.
I'm suspicious of SpyreX, but it's not anything I can really put my finger on. I think it's the willingness to sit back and let Fate have his way, while calling out his targets. It bothers me.

Chesskid wagon died, which I think is good for now.

Er, what happened to this:

Chesskid3 lynch would be amazing. I'll throw a vote down after he contradicts himself some more.

You later said you "didn't like" the chesskid wagon, but this was after you said his breadcrumb was fail. What's going on here??

Unvote, Vote: Kitoari

we're forcing gandalf to nuke me tomorrow yes?

Why the fuck would we do that?

[Percy]

V/LA until 2/1/2011

(That's the second of January, in case ur doin it

rong

)

I'm off to celebrate NYE. Vote stands.

[Percy]

OK, nukes everywhere. This is going to end in radioactive tears.

Nuke: Snake

I maintain my townread on Jed. I'm pretty sure Snake will flip town.
SpyreX, why didn't you nuke Danakillsu? He was number one on your kill list, iirc.

Katsuki-uh OH FURRY MUFFIN GO BOOM BOOM
Baby Spice-probably shoulda nuked him, lynched danakillsu, but THIS IS JUST OH SO SATISFYING
bobsnox-DERPA HERPA
bunnylover-what the FUCK GET THIS CLOWN OFF MY ALIVE LIST
danakillsu-say GOODNIGHT SWEETUMS
DizzyIzzyB13 gandalf5166-trustin chesskid of all people
SnakePlissken Jed Cooper- CRISPY CRISPY GOODNESS

Bunnylover was lynched yesterday. You voted for that lynch. Lolwut?

Yes, of course I carrier'd Fate (and got a kick out of it too). That's called consistency. Not sure why nobody can give a solid reason for voting for me, but I'm not sure I care. Everyone's reads I've seen are pretty far off, so town's going to lose anyway. See ya next game.

I believe the claim for the power. I can also understand why town-Dana would block Fate, given Fate's attitude yesterday. But overall I'd say this is fairly null.

Was your use of power entirely for self preservation, or do you actually think Fate is scum?

AV is currently my strongest scum read.

Vote: AurorusVox
HoS: Kitoari

Jack needs to die soon because he's bad at mafia

No he doesn't and no he's not...?
Explain your read.

I have sincere doubts about chesskid, but his antics have been tweaking my gut in a town direction. Still,

I'm going to tunnel nonstop on the slot until it is dead, so it's a huge distraction and needs to die no matter what :/

At the very least you should be talking about other suspicions you have, or even putting a case together.

Nuke: inhim

I'm OK with this.

NUKE: FATE

I'm not OK with this. Katsuki, explain your Fate read. Is it only from today's play?

IVE BEEN ROLEBLOCKED BY FUCKIN SCUM ALL NIGHT OH YEAH ALL NIGHT BABY

Er, don't you have a silo?


I think the nuke on Fate should be cancelled. I think the nuke on Snake should be cancelled too.

I also think that we shouldn't nuke any more until we get some flips.

[Percy]

Hi all, sorry for the absence. I'll be dumping a huge post later today.

[Percy]

Also, SpyreX, don't cancel that nuke under any circumstances. Snake is scum for sure.

Sorry to be cryptic, but I really have to go lecture now! To whet everyone's appetite, I took Eavesdrop, and oh boy do I have some tasty goodness to share with y'all. Posting within 12 hours.

[Percy]

This is going to be a long, long post. Two parts, in fact!

Firstly, I had it in my head that Snake claimed Radar. He didn't, he claimed fighter. I retract my exclamation that Snake is scum. He's probably town still. I say the nuke should be recalled, and I think SpyreX is scum anyway, so if he doesn't I'll make a rageface.

Percy, why are you claiming now?

Three reasons.
Firstly, I think I have some incriminating results that are worth sharing.
Secondly, the scum know that Eavesdrop was actually selected, since Toogeloo told everyone that he put all the PRs on his list and got none of them.
Thirdly, I have a strong feeling that at least one scumteam is going to target me for stealth bombing tonight, and it's better that I dump now than I wait too long and you all get nothing.

Now I've coded these as follows:

Red text

is for translations. One of the scumteams is using a code, and directly after every code piece I'll include the translation in red. The code itself is very simple; read the second letter of each "word". Treat words with double letters as spaces.

Green text

is for my commentary.

Purple text

is for public drops; I've included them in the timeline of the drops as a whole so you can see the progression. I can't give you the time when I received any of these messages; I got into trouble for that last game.

Keep in mind that there are two scumteams. I don't necessarily think that code means one scum team and non-code means the other, but it's a good starting assumption.

Without further ado, here they are.

Leak 1

from the first post by mod here skipping duplicate words

This could be either a key to some code, or a strange way of phrasing the key to the aforementioned code.

Leak 2

Whatever.

Appear clean dare fyi furry -naturally.

Play -naturally.

This says to me that there was some discussion of bussing. More on that later.

Leak 3

glljk = gvvjk

darff = darf

yslgkj volka hrmxc krza jyum

sorry

I assume these are corrections, but the first one throws me a bit - I don't know why double L should be different to double V.

Leak 4

I got the first one in list with E in the name...

I will post #35 method to tell you who I will use my nuke on.

This is probably a powerrole claim of some sort. Without knowing their preference list, I can't be sure. However, if this is a claim for something not a silo, how can you "use" a nuke? I think it may be a euphemism for NK, which I'll come back to later.

Leak 5

I got #1.

A scum got their first preference...?

Leak 6

Going to nuke Chesskid3 first

When I initially saw this, I thought straight away that chesskid was scum. Why would anyone want to nuke or NK chesskid? Reading him as scum lead me to construct my case, which I still think is pretty good, but somehow he's managed to relegate a lot of the suspicion to playstyle and has sat around being useless instead of scummy.

Leak 7

him gmfd zzart nvli total utle mine under hge vvan C. lol mr xxtra gsls thld aost fud blca mdrt bnvvl fit xtxxsd mvkl potato htgn zeld I rod lrt E?

im voting C. or should i vote I or E?

At the time that I saw this, the vote count (with dead people omitted) looked like this, with unvotes in grey:

Danakillsu - 5 (

Fate

, Jack, Faraday, Fate, SpyreX, gandalf)
Jed Cooper - 3 (

SpyreX

,

Fate

,

gandalf

, Sociopath, danakillsu, AurorusVox)
Internet Stranger - 1 (bobsnox)
Fate - 1 (chesskid3)
Toogeloo - 0 (

chesskid3

)
Katsuki - 0 (

Faraday

)

I don't know who C, I and E are, but these abbreviations show up again. Am I missing something obvious? Input here would be appreciated.
One thing to note is that this person is asking opinions on where to put their vote. I'd say that merely doing this discounts certain players from being the person who wrote this.

Leak 8

We can discuss who to nuke later. Right now we need to focus on what mislynch we should get, because Fate's wagon might actually be viable and then we can save Rogue's role for someone else.

Tai Chi, go for the dana one. Rogue join me on the Fate wagon. I think we can make a lot of flips happen if Rogue ever gets lynched connection wise, but lets try to steer far away from his lynch right now.

Rogue and Tai Chi are pseudonyms adopted by this scum team to refer to each other. Now the "If Rogue ever gets lynched" comment is important, because again we're discussing bussing.

Leak 9

The method in #35 is flawed because it can't be reversed to find the original name, there's no way to decode it.

For instance chesskid converts to ____ who is an all right nuke target, but I'm not sure how you could have chosen ____ without going through all the names using the method to see which one had a name that landed on ___.

Night time we can come up with something different.

This is exactly how it appeared to me; it means my original reading of the chesskid leak was wrong and meaningless, as I don't know who chesskid refers to. But it is clear that since there is "a name that landed on", the names themselves are used as the code. My initial thought was to start at chesskid3 and move one space down the playerlist for every letter in the username; in this case, it would land on Kitoari. My interpretation also fits the leaked message, but I'm really just speculating.

Leak 10

New method can be to give each player in order a word

If they did this, I didn't notice.

Leak 11

tld bomb ylder

lol

blame year atol curry mikey ctzx furrious bdea lily pear.

let it die

At the time I was leaked this, the wagon that had the most votes leaving it was the wagon on Jed, but dana as well. Someone could asking here whether they should keep pushing the wagon, perhaps the same person as the "should i vote I or E" from before. Or it's a scumbuddy saying this unprompted. I'm not sure.

Leak 12

msum vtldkj poping vps trvvm xbox music isle jingle mnuips tglaw mtrre lmao bely

stop bussing me

More on the bussing theme.

Leak 13

WE SHALL BUS INTO THE SUNSET, AND WATCH THE SKY TURN RED IN OUR GLORY

Looks like someone imitating either Fate or Sociopath. Also casts doubt on the "stop bussing me" leak being legitimate. I'd say this is a few townpoints for Fate.

Leak 14

So who are the options for a quick lynch tomorrow? Chesskid, bobsnox, maybe Fate. Who else?

Each of these players looked like a viable lynch heading into the next day. It certainly doesn't clear any of these players, but they could be using code here.

Leak 15

Have two tabs open to make reading easier.


C is very spot on with his scum reads. He should be our first NK.

c on the other hand is easily lynched, even though he is also accurate. They should be the first targets we look at, and it will look like cross-killing.


As for our actions tonight.

Tai Chi-Target i or v or V with yours. It would be very helpful.

Rogue-Target e with your action. Targeting anyone else either outs you as scum or is needlessly pro-town for no reason. You can say e is playing to his townmeta so you figured he was the easiest town read during your skim.

Whoever this is is one for the verbosity. My gut tells me it's AV talking here, but that's only my gut. It's also clear that whoever Rogue and Tai Chi are, they don't have silos, and they have actions that can target players during the night. That means, if I'm right, that two of the five active abilities have scum in the same faction. One of those got radar, which would be the first person and for reasons I'll get into, and the other sounds like the Battleship...?

Leak 16

С Рождеством

Merry Christmas in Russian lulz

Leak 17

So, any ideas on whew should kill?

I suggest we target Alamaster

The two typos probably aren't typos, but I can't guess their meaning. Any ideas?

Leak 18

whole word

either "ho" in code for Christmas, or a code the other team is working on, no idea.

Leak 19

trad maoer iderk mater qruer

radar

And this is why I thought Snake is scum. The fact that it's in code is odd, because I've been assuming that the person who wrote the big long post above isn't on the same team as the code team, but it fits far too nicely to be scum misdirection. Whoever has radar is scum, probably!

[Percy]

Leak 20

NK: Percy

Well clearly this didn't happen, but somebody's thinking about it, hence the dump.

Leak 21

Roger that.
Also do not be afraid to bus me. I will bus you guys hard, so keep that in mind.
Get a bitch fight going if possible.

This seems to suggest to me that one of the scum is within our current suspect pool, and might even be Snake.

Leak 22

You're voting for a scumbuddy. You're trying to make a small case against me. You're throwing me under the bus. That's stupid to bus in a game with this many players on day one.

The wiki agrees: "How to Spot it [bussing]

Suspicion commonly arises when someone is suddenly lynched for what seem like minor or spurious reasons, and yet flips scum, because it may be indicative that one of the major proponents of their lynch is actually one of their scum partners. "

spurious is the right word. stop.

U MAD?
This post is so general that it doesn't strike me as something designed to create WIFOM, and I have no way of knowing whether this comes from the same team as before. But it also appears to have been posted during the night, which is really odd. Any ideas?

Leak 23

chesskid goddamnit how many times do I have to say it? stop posting here and get on the thread to post they're going after lurkers

The scum were hoping this would be public-dropped, I'm guessing.

Leak 24

-#2 results?

pkoit kelp benfks lpnvms oozing atisj jheist tebnsioq quityy ncbvisp pofilas sdiwkfl iejfut.

keep the code

Going to have to come up with something more sophisticated now, fellas!

Leak 25

Mbud uohdry fmuda nbuifc SCTH htzwr koldt noyda?

bombCtoo?

I don't know who C is, but this is pretty useless anyway. Could be that

Leak 26

Given recent developments, we should treat U like we used to treat C, yes?

Again, no good ideas, but if C = one of the NKs...? Yeah, still nothing.

Leak 27

So C and U are the two people below Rogue on the playerlist, respectively.

If that is the case, I'm still not understanding him right.

That said I think U should be nuked by Vox tonight

Slip, or misdirection? You decide!
But whoever C is should help us figure out who is U, and therefore who is Rogue.

Leak 28

Rogue should be nuking the name that first appears in #3.

I'm sending in mine now.

Rogue being someone with nukes doesn't match up with the earlier hints that Rogue has the Battleship.

And I just remembered that inHim claimed doc, so he's probably Rogue, but does that refer to AurorusVox and bobsnox, or to Jack and Katsuki?

inHim is scum, anyway.

Leak 29

Rogue can just say he is sheeping and justify it that way

Just after I received this, I noticed this from inHim:

Both feel a little forced in my reread. Faraday's nuke of Katsuki is goodstuff, though, and keeps me optimistic.

Jack in that category is a sheep

. He always seems unreadable to me.

On its own, perhaps coincidence, but it's coming together too well for inHimscum.

Leak 30

Tai Chi why are you voting U anyway given your night actions?

Whoever is U could help us narrow down who Tai Chi is.

Leak 31

oh stupid me. cant be pr cos he nuked you LOL

???

Leak 32

What are you doing claim

Could be one of our nukees...?

Leak 33

You have to.

You HAVE to.

Still perhaps one of our nukees. I haven't had time to read much of what's happened recently, so someone else may have a good idea of what's going on here.

Leak 34

dont say that word or they'll know what were doing

WHAT WORD GAIZ LOL

Leak 35

BUSSING TEAPARTY-

Leak 36

BUSSING TEAPARTY!!

Leak 37

BUSSING TEAPARTY

Leak 38

BUSSING TEAPARTY!!

Obviously the scum wanted this leaked. I have no idea why. I'm also not sure about the timing here, lol

Leak 39

Eavesdrop: A crucial part of the Allies’ success during WWII was its ability to crack into German communications. It worked then. Why wouldn’t it work now? {In DEFCON 3 or below, every time a member of an opposing faction communicates with another member of its faction privately during the night, there is a 10% chance the message will be intercepted and its contents PM’d to you. During the day, this possibility increases to 30%.}

Spam.

Leak 40

Is English your first language Mina?

More spam.

Leak 41

your right jack i got em mixed up whoops lol

k i'll vote him in a bit for you

Almost certainly not Jack being addressed here.

Leak 42

we love you mr eavesdropper man

And I love you too. Are you chesskid? You sound like chesskid.

Leak 43

join us here on the dark side. we have nuclear weapons

So do we.

Leak 44

ah tick would have been better than zip apologies mr eavesdropper

lolwut?

Leak 45

dizzy looks like your number's up if chess gets his trade

You can't spend posts saying hi to me and then expect me to think that dizzy is scum...

...and that's it.

I haven't had time to read any posts that have happened, and I'm just going to leave what I have here. There are some promising leads and some found scum, and I'll catch up with you all tomorrow.

But seriously SpyreX cancel that nuke on Snake, he's still probably town.

[Percy]

EBWOP:

Leak 21 should be inHim, not Snake.
Leak 25 should continue "Could be that C is either RedCoyote or Bunnylover, given the fact that they were NKed."

[Percy]

@AV

: I still stand by my analysis; the tone of the post I said sounds like you does sound like you, and the emulation of Fate is pretty obvious.
I really, really think you're scum this game. I will be really shocked if you're not.

@dana

: I received it during N1.

Worrying thought. If VasudeVa/inHim is Rogue, then this:

Rogue join me on the Fate wagon. I think we can make a lot of flips happen if Rogue ever gets lynched connection wise, but lets try to steer far away from his lynch right now.

...doesn't make as much sense as I would like.

P-edit: Oh, Kitoari is replacing out. He's still scum too.

[Percy]

Jack is my favourite. Much <3

I really wanted to type out a huge reply but I ran out of time and now I'm going to see TRON and then probably me incommunicado for tonight. But tomorrow, I will make up for it with lots of posting, I promise.

[Percy]

Reading now, posting soon.

[Percy]

Firstly, Jack is completely spot on with bobsnox scum. IS being C makes perfect sense.

If that's the case, then:

C is very spot on with his scum reads. He should be our first NK.

bobsnox was called out as a suspect by IS in this post, he is all over dana, and the inHim/VV slot gets a lick in this post. I'm definitely a suspect of his as well, but if bobs is scum with inHim it makes perfect sense for them to want to kill him... But the leaks also suggest bob's scum with Katsuki.... IS's Fate-hate was stronger after the leaked message.

Hmmm. Well, bobs will be dead soon.

Also,

But seriously SpyreX cancel that nuke on Snake, he's still probably town.

I never understood the Jed-hate, and I didn't understand the Snake-hate, either. I can see SpyreX scum nuking the easy target. I have been getting weird vibes from SpyreX and Fate, and something tells me that SpyreX is playing Fate like a fiddle.

AV seems rather overdefensive over this post HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Scum here.

Bus?

IF INHIM FLIPS SCUM BATTLESHIP FATE IS HIGHLY GUARENTEED SCUM BUDDY

Bus?

Or it could be scum trying to hunt the other team....

WE SHALL BUS INTO THE SUNSET, AND WATCH THE SKY TURN RED IN OUR GLORY

Important context, pointed out by Jack:

He posted it during the toog/fate fight.

Still,

I didn't screw around with QT WIFOM the first game, and certainly wouldn't start now.

I believe SP, and I get a town vibe from him this game. I'd say someone like AV, with his self-confessed brilliance at imitating other people, could just as easily be responsible.

@Sociopath

: I understand that my participation in this game has been sporadic, and the scum code is relatively simple. All I can say is that I'm town, and my access has been legitimately affected by RL.

AV may be town...hmm.

Why did you say this? I don't follow.

I forgot, with the lower case letters going the opposite, this:

c on the other hand is easily lynched, even though he is also accurate. They should be the first targets we look at, and it will look like cross-killing.

Is them talking about sociopath.

If that's the case, then I can't see why they would describe him as "accurate", unless this was bobs talking, since SP doesn't like him much...

RE: Snake...=_="

Ironic that the slot that wanted to control nukes is the first to get nuked.

I WANT THIS LYNCH SO BAD

The trouble with the leaks Percy posted is that we can't properly evaluate them with any sort of certainty as to how skeptical we should be of the messages until Percy is confirmed one way or the other. That means he needs to die. The nature of the evesdropped posts suggests that the scum teams are being careful as to the information that is being put in their QT, so they may be quite comfortable with their information or disinformtion being put in the public sphere. They may not decided to kill him. Thus, town has to consider whether it's worth killing Percy ourselves, since as far as I'm aware, that's the only way to be 100% sure of his allegience and thus the context of the messages he's leaked.

It's true that the scum may be happy to introduce WIFOM into the town, and therefore keep me alive. But consider this: neither scumteam can use their quicktopics how they want to; to engage in frank discussion about who they want NKed, about who should be lynched the next day, and so on. The scum will be very relieved when I'm dead, I assure you.
Secondly, there are ways to confirm me other than killing me. For example, you can use the leaks I provided to catch people on both the scumteams.
Finally, I don't see how my death will make you any more certain about any of the leaks.
Could you give me one example of just one leak where the knowledge that I'm town would change your read of it?

Many people can "FAKE" my play style.

"FAKE" it FUCKING FAKE IMPLIES FAKE NOT REAL IMPLIES FAKE.

THAT DROPPED QT MESSAGE WAS A LEVEL OF MIMICRY OF SUCH HIGH QUALITY THAT

IT COULD"VE ONLY COME FROM A CHINESE CRYPTOLOGIST MASTERPOSTER SOCIOPATH.

Bolded does not compute. I think this is probably town-Fate rampaging through another bad theory.

bobsnox nuke is awesome.

Yes.

ok. bobsnox is the one who we KNOW is in the taichi/rogue mafia group. So if he flips russian, then inhim is rogue (targetting fate, etc). If he flips chinese, then rogue is dana. I think he will flip chinese.

This is my conclusion as well.

CHINESE--BOBS, KATS, DANA

RUSSIANS--INHIM, AV, DIZZY

I can actually get behind this list. I sure am agreeing with Jack a lot, but that's because he is AWESOME.

Still, I think Kitoari is a fucking great suspect. His attitude towards the chesskid lynch was absolutely terribad.

dana is the aicraft carrier and targetted fate, rogue targetted "e" which is fate. fate needed to be blocked because he was going to nuke dana. so they wanted to lynch fate instead to save the roleblock. There's no similar kind of "need" for doctor on fate who isn't even on the team! And if he was, lynching him wouldn't help.

The bawwwwing about lack of modkill makes me think Fate might be scum. In my experience only scum get that hot and bothered about modkills. And his defensive nuke mode is

These nukes are going to be great, and I still like my vote. No new leaks, will post them if they come.

Summary:
From least likely scum to most likely, it's
{bobsnox, AurorusVox, (DizzyIzzy + Kitoari), danakillsu, chesskid3, Fate, SpyreX, Mina, Faraday, Sociopath, Jack}
...in decreasing order of scummitude. I don't know how chesskid's done it, but I think he's town now. If he's scum then I will be seriously impressed.

[Percy]

EBWOP: My scumlist should have chess later down, probably just after SpyreX.

[Percy]

I apologise to the players on my side if I am modkilled.

You talking about this, Faraday?

Yeah, that is scum language right there.

[Percy]

Stream of consciousness thoughts:

-I've got a bad feeling about tonight...
-I haven't received any more leaks; I don't think I'll be getting any more, somehow.
-I think dana will flip scum. But if he flips scum, he'll be Russian scum, not Chinese, as otherwise there would be no need for scum to make a deal like this one. Since the scum seem to be talking one-on-one, I'd say a dana Russian flip is almost a certainty now.
-Scum got both Eavesdrop

and

Battleship, ftl.
-Claiming lists to try and figure out who got Eavesdrop will be pointless, so don't bother.
-I'm glad SpyreX and Fate are turning on each other - something about their interaction bothers me.
-I'm pretty sure Jack, Faraday, Mina and chesskid are town.
-Kitoari has done some pretty odd things in this game. I think not lynching him and making him nuke someone of the town's choosing tomorrow is the way to go.
-My strongest scumread in the game is AurorusVox. I'd love an AV lynch.
-SpyreX, as much as I appreciate the nuke in my name, I'll leave the decision - and the responsibility for it - entirely in your hands.
-I never saw the Dizzy case, until Dizzy wanted to kill me to somehow confirm something or other about my leaks. Chesskid has bet his reputation on Dizzy-scum, and I think it's kinda ridiculous. Overall, I wouldn't say no to a dead Dizzy, but there are other more prominent targets for me.
-I don't see Sociopath scum. I think he's town.

[Percy]

Hi everyone, in a bit of a rush, here's the latest leaks I've received.

Leak 46

TEAM 1 HERE AGAIN.

TEAM 1 AGREES PERCY WILL DIE TONITE.

TEAM 1 WANT SOCIO DEAD.

SHOW OF FAITH PLEASE SOCIOPATH KILL. HIS WINK SCARY.

TEAM 1 WANT TEAM 2 RECONSIDER PERCY KILL NOW. PERHAPS CHESSKID AS PERCYS READS ARE NO THREAT. CHESSKID ROLE IS THREAT.

TOGETHER OUR COMMUNIST ALIANCE DESTROY AMERICA.

Leak 47

trust

Leak 48

BEST NUKE TARGET

Leak 49

NEW LIST: M

Leak 50

lol fate

Leak 51

Take care, comrades, and good luck. I have played my part, and hopefully further confusion is about to ensue.

Leak 52

I really don't understand it but I guess ends do justify the means in this game.

Leak 53

An honor.

Leak 54

SSSSSS...CCCCCC...U.....U...M.....M
S........C........U.....U...M.M.M.M
SSSSSS...C........U.....U...M..M..M
.....S...C........U.....U...M.....M
SSSSSS...CCCCCC...UUUUUUU...M.....M

Leak 55

I'm out. good luck

Leak 56

OOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leak 57

NUT

Leak 58

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

Leak 59

[REDACTED]

Leak 60

spaz need artoo scum wyd nnyd ahsd jajk ls jyyd sbslk dasdj ldak sddgj sbaf true aegth eakjhf stah shadh

Percy has bad breath

Leak 61

HAI PERCY


aityu

Leak 62

SEX

Leak 63

m

Leak 64

#2

Leak 65

DUDE WE'RE OK, WE'LL RIDE OUT THIS STORM AND START OUT ANEW.

IT'LL BE LIKE THE TRANQUILITY AFTER A RAINY DAY

Leak 66

wtf man, i told you we should have used a more complicated naming system. C was too obvious fffffffffff

Leak 67

til after ACRES FINDS AJAX parse french seeding pain players sling stones to sweet ends it whigs meaning snow AMELIA rides askew as aches punishing America

ifCIJarealltownthenMisscum

I'll have time to post in ~12 hours.

[Percy]

Goddamn, I really wanted to post before I died.
Thanks SpyreX and Fate....
One of you is probably scum.

[Percy]

[quote="SpyreX']You've still got time.

You can control my nuke.

I've given it to you.[/quote]
Not enough time for a wall. I've been reading along, but I don't have time to analyse everything.

Also, I rejected your nuke. It's yours, and who you nuke is your business. Thanks anyway

I think AV is almost certainly scum, and either Kitoari or SpyreX is looking good to me. I think Dizzy will flip town, and chesskid will realise how truly useless he's been.

It's been fun, y'all! Enjoy nuclear death without me

[Percy]

Urrrgh quotefail.

Also, lol, I did mean to say Espionage rather than Eavesdrop, hilaire.

[Percy]

Also don't be afraid to nuke the red out of chesskid tomorrow. I have a feeling that he's scum now, because I can't imagine anyone else coding in that I have bad breath.

OH WIFOM

[Percy]

What an amazing game. I had so much fun, both alive and dead. I must say that I completely bought Fate's case on Jack, and would have probably been a detriment to the town if I was alive to see that bus.

The Eavesdrop role is my favourite role I've ever played on this site. Something about it really suits me! I spent many nights pouring through the wifom, and being able to definitively nail some scum with the leaks was awesome. Reading through the Dead QTs was great fun, and I now have the best theme song

For the record, I think I have

TEH ULTIMATE STRATEGIE

when it comes to being scum and evading Eavesdrop, but that will have to wait for DEFCON 3.0 (pre-/in btw) when I get scum and let someone else have eavesdrop

I've nommed AGM for most enjoyable game! (link)

Thanks again to everyone and especially to AGM for a great game.