DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Fate]

Jed flaked, apparently. I too thought he was replacin out.

Also you posted things that agreed with me huh?

Must've missed them in my skimz

[Fate]

K Red, your story checks out, for now.

[RedCoyote]

What a sucker... now I shall work on my true plans at communist domination.

[RedCoyote]

Err, ignore that. That was for a different game.

[Fate]

RedCoyote?

Trying to be funny?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Toogeloo]

I'd really prefer us not to have to lynch one of these two. If you would've came to me earlier I'd have jumped on Fate in a second, but I'm just not as comfortable with Toogeloo as I once was. Toogeloo, are you sure you want to make a stand here?

Fate and I co-existing in this game is only going to continue to be a distraction for scum to hide behind. I tried to drop it earlier in a way to stuff the case, but it's apparent what Fate wants, and I can't disagree. The important thing is that you analyze the hell out of both wagons tomorrow, not just the person who was lynched. Once this spat between Fate and I is laid to rest, the two most vocal personalities in the game butting heads should no longer be a distraction.

[Toogeloo]

Toog is totally one to talk about "things that really need to be argued."

What? Why? You're here now, why not make some noise?

HURRRRRR
THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ARGUED.
VLA NOTICES.
OBV.

Considering that chess came in right after I posted that list, I think it worked to some extent. And my comment at him was a plea for activity, not an argument of any other type.

[Katsuki]

Wait what, so you believe fate is town now, toog?

[Toogeloo]

Wait what, so you believe fate is town now, toog?

I think everyone else has been hiding behind Fate and I, but it could just be because we have been louder. This translates into the very real possibility that Fate is town. No one has really gone to bat for Fate, but rather attacked me instead for attacking Fate. Could be, if he is scum, that his buddies were distancing and trying to find other viable targets. That's not to say he hasn't had a buddy relationship with anyone; notably SpyreX and Socio have both been quite friendly with Fate.

As Barret would say though, "There ain't no stoppin' this train we on!"

Our spat has given lurkers increased lurking ability. Baby Spice (yeah) was supposedly catching up, but used the spat to lay a vote on me, and disappear without content (thus no content at all since starting the game). Other players are just as guilty of laying votes and completely disappearing. These are things you guys should keep in the back of your mind after I am lynched.

[Le Cupcake]

What are your thoughts on bob and jack?

[Katsuki]

What are your thoughts on bob and jack?

[Toogeloo]

I like Jack a little better than I like Bob. Bob hasn't taken a stance on Fate and I, in fact he hasn't commented even once on it the entire game. We surely have to be distracting enough that at least some kind of passing comment would be necessary. Jack puts himself a little more forward, and isn't trying to be subtle or dance around any subjects.

If you asked me which to lynch right now, I would say bob.

[Percy]

Reading now, posting soon!

[SpyreX]

The words keep going up.
The death isn't.

[chesskid3]

Bob might be scum. I'm still working on figuring out his meta :/

[Percy]

This post is a wall, and due to board issues I've had to split it in half.
If you're in a rush, the most important part of my post is my case against chesskid, which is the post after this one.

---

If you think it is pro-town for him to want to control nukes, what do you make of him saying "Fuck this shit, I'll happily nuke Gandalf", especially considering that he has explicitly stated that he doesn't want a silo anywhere on his ten-strong preference list?

It doesn't make any sense at all. That's the point. He's contradicting himself in frustration, not hatching a diabolical scumscheme.

And yes, I treat logical inconstancies as scumtells. Holding people to a standard of consistency is a great way of catching scum who aren't honest about their intentions.

Sure, inconsistencies are a great way to find scum. They're also really easy to catch some townies on as scum and gain a mislynch with a rock-solid defence.

(3) Well I figured that if we wanted the sub to claim we probably ought to say so, so that scum doesn't keep quiet and then later on say "Oh yeah I have the sub sorry didn't realise I was meant to out myself."

Do

you

want the sub to claim? I understand that making things clear is good, but you have no opinion?

---

I absolutely

hated

this post. You're clearly not a noob, and trying to make someone look bad for doing

too much scumhunting

makes my head spin.

Except he didn't

do

any real scum hunting, besides

possibly

bunny. Everyone else was a generalized statement about activity, most things that had been mentioned at some point prior, and continued to push the, "dana and toog scumteam because they are buddiez," argument.

See, he didn't say that. He pointed out how crazy it was for Fate to have too many scum reads; now he's upgraded his argument (under pressure) to "his scumhunting wasn't strong enough".

So let's conveniently ignore this sidestep and concentrate on this new argument. His original post was in response to this one from Fate. It was drunkposting and there was elements of summary, but there was a lot of content that wasn't "generalized statements about activity".

The fact that he went for the "how can you have 8 suspects lol", then changed the argument to something else under pressure, and didn't respond to the content of Fate's post makes me think Toog is probscum.

Anyone not of Fate or me change your votes now please.

Why do you think Fate is scum? Is it purely because you challenged him to produce a case and he didn't?
Or is it this piece of shit?

I'd argue that Fate started this whole mess when he tried to incriminate me for not taking a stance on dana way back in DEFCON 5. Got a little gruff when I mentioned something scummy about him, and since then it's been a "no U!" contest pointing back and forth, me with snarky remarks and him with "MWHAHAHAHAHA!"

---

Further, I am saying, pound for pound, if one reads the TOO AMERICAN dance almost ALL of those are at least actual balls out X is scum or Y is town business versus Jed's amazing amount of... nothing.

Is this an argument that Jed is more likely scum, or the town will be slightly more well off in the case of a mislynch?

---

subtle OMGUS

*facepalm*

---

Right now Dana and my wagons are even, so YEAH I'D EXPECT YOU TO RAISE NEW POINTS AND EXPAND ON YOUR CASE IF YOU WERE TRYING TO GET ME LYNCHED.
>
Not sit there with your head up your ass and go "that's a shitty ME-vote Fate!" and "Wow lurkers are lurking! Prods please!??!? IM DOING GODS WORK HERE PEOPLE!"

This is a nice characterisation of Toog.

---

I do think, however, that taking one radical positon and then gradually sliding to the other side of the scale in the way JC did is peculiar. Peculiar enough to justify a vote? Most definitely.

Your characterisation of Jed's position is off. I don't think his position was radical to begin with, and there wasn't a gradual slide. It's quite clear to me that he gave up in frustration and posted this:

Only if you are unclaimed Gandalf. If you are trying to say that a claimed dayvig shouldn't be used as town, that is only an argument from scum.

HAHAHAHAHA. Yes. You never direct a vig, because SCUM can influence a directed vig.

Excuse me but you claim vig in a an open setup where the vig can be town or scum, and you DON'T allow the town to influence your vig? That is only scum hiding in the vig claim and is lynched.

No. I don't. If you think otherwise for some fuckin weird reason, you can go to hell.

Americans have two separate factions it seems as well...

OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.

There's nothing gradual about this; it's an explosion of frustration at anti-town crap.

You're reading too much into this, but, more than that, it's really taken out of context. This comment had to do with the Fail Safe power and why it would be more likely to hit town. I didn't mean for it to be read as though town players would be more careless about nuking. It was purely a statistical argument.

Explain to me how the context helps:

But you should understand that not everyone might be able to make the best use of all the power roles. Like Percy concluded, the Fail Safe is probably not a great roll for town. If someone is nuking you, statistically they have better odds of being Americans than anything else. Scum are probably going to be exceptionally careful about nuking someone in this game.

Scum are going to be careful about nuking because they may hit the fail safe, but it's a bad role for townies to take and they should avoid it?

---

Part of me wants this Toog v.s. Fate debate to be over with, both shut the hell up, and actually try to find real scum. The two most vocal people are at each other throat. Fate attacks Toog for having his vote on him, they fight, Toog switches his vote which to me is what Fate wanted, then Fate attacks him for switching to his next scum target. To me is all completely idiotness.
To be honest, I only see this situation from both of them.
They are both Town.
They are both Scum on the same team.

This whole ordeal just seems to me set-up

, which is why I am considering them both scum on the same team.

Explain the bolded?

[chesskid3]

oh boy a case against me

[Percy]

The case against chesskid3

Scum:
IS
Fate


Different scumteams. Calling it now.

So, chesskid thinks Fate is scum, for reasons he gives much later...?

No, Fate's suggestion of nuking ~ 5 players in game is horribad, since most are likely town. It's a cheap equivalent of a policy lynch to remove most likely 3-4 townies for free, and is scummy as fuck.

OK, I'm starting to get it, Fate is scum because he wants to nuke for policy reasons. Given that chesskid wants to be "The Batman", I don't think there can be much conviction here...
Then there's this odd bit:

fate I will bet you moneyz that Dana is town

This sounds like something you'd say to someone who is town, not someone you think is scum...?
Toog follows up:

Fate lumped him in the, "VI and detriment to town category," too ya'know.

so what Fate is doing is trying for easy town lynches, is that what you're saying?

Looks Policy Lynch-ish to me, which is just as anti-town... But he does this as town too, so it's not really a tell if that's what you mean.

Toog doesn't take the bait, but chesskid really wanted him to. Then there's some epic hedging:

Fate I can't read for shit, but all his reads are off at best.
Oh and Toog might be scum, but it's like 50 50

And now we get to the first vote,

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU LYNCHING JED

Vote: Toog

The bandwagon was started by SpyreX, so why is Toog being singled out? I don't know. I kinda expected him to vote for Gandalf or SP at this point.
He is then asked about the contradictions by Toog, and he responds:

no support for the others. derp.

Urrrgh. His top reads are ignored in favour of a bandwagon, which is pretty scummy.
Now Toog votes Fate, and chesskid jumps on the wagon straight away:

Unvote

Vote: Fate

Given that he's had a lot to say about Toog's alignment, I expected a bit more of an explanation, because this is not fitting together at all.
Then there is a lot of nothing but setup talk (should we claim lists, blah blah), and then this is the kicker: Fate starts a big push against Toog, and chesskid jumps on that too!

Unvote

Vote: Toog

biggest scumread tha ta wagon is posible on

Then quickly votes Gandalf

for jumping on the wagon he's on

with this:

unvote
VOTE: Toog

... before voting Fate again!

Unvote

Vote: Fate

Nothing chesskid has done has made any sense, at all. It seems like a lot of words riddled with contradicting reads. He has exploited Fate vs. Toog for all it's worth, in turns buddying with both sides and joining both wagons.

Unvote: AurorusVox
HoS: AurorusVox
Vote: chesskid3

I really, really liked my AV vote, so I may go back to it at some point. If forced to choose between Toog and Fate I'd choose to lynch Toog. But chesskid is my best read.

[chesskid3]

My reads are like
towniest scum to scummiest scum
toog......fate....gandalf

There's 0 support for gandalf today. I don't like making huge cases, so i have no chance of starting a wagon, narrowing my vote options to Toog and Fate.
At the times of voting Toog, it was evident that a d1 fate lynch was not goign to happen.
Post Toog making it Fate or Toog, I'm not going to support a toog lynch D1 either, hence the move to Fate.

That should adress everything

[Baby Spice]

Damn, what's to comment on.

Jed makes all sorts of theory based and disapeers out of the blue. Waiting for replacement to show. Think his spat says town, but pissing off like that is hinky.

Fate/Toog. Noisy noisy noisy. Toog voting to distract a wagon is scummy though.

Dana. Seems scummy, but then he always does.

Chesskid. Scum. His defense of Dana smacks of trying to buy town points for not supporting an aparent mis-lynch.

Percy. The messiah. Don Quixote. The White Knight.

Bob. I'm always sus when someone lists three scum reads or three town reads.

SpyreX. Don't know if he's playing or mucking around. So different from the one game I think I've played with him. Leaning town.

RC. almost too serious, but town.

IS. If someone could be over the radar instead of under the radar, he's it. Bleeds red white and blue.

I hate it when I hit submit and walk away, only to find preview stuff up.
Chesskid, rule of three

[chesskid3]

Wait, so I'm not allowed to defend someone I'm pretty goddamn sure is town from being lynched, without people going along and saying LOL SCUMBUYING TOWNCRED?
Really?
Bull.

[Percy]

So you were voting Toog for being scum, and because Toog said "It's me or Fate", you're now voting Fate, because you don't support a lynch on Toog.

How does the start and the end of that sentence even begin to fit together?

Why did you listen to Toog when he said "it's Fate or me"?

You voted Fate in post 738. You voted Toogeloo in post 940. Toogeloo said "Fate or me" in post 964. Then you re-voted Fate in post 981. Why does Toog making it "Fate or Toog" have any relevance to your voting history at all?

What does this sentence:

biggest scumread tha ta wagon is posible on

...even mean?

Why do you think there is zero support for a gandalf lynch?

Is it fair to say you don't like making cases

at all

?

Congrats on addressing absolutely nothing. I'm impressed.

[danakillsu]

@ BS (heh heh)
How would you know that I look scummy all the time (although you are correct)?

[chesskid3]

Toog is a 50%, as you so nicely quoted. Fate is about a 90%.
Fate is more likely imo to be scum. Hence if Toog is going to make it Him or Fate, a fate d1 lynch is a possiblity again, hence moving my vote to Fate

Gandalf has no votes, so OBVIOUSLY THERE IS NO SUPPORT.

Biggest scumread that a wagon is possible on.
Should be obvious what that means.

[Percy]

a fate d1 lynch is a possiblity again

When did it become not a possibility?

Gandalf has no votes, so OBVIOUSLY THERE IS NO SUPPORT.

No words. None.

Biggest scumread that a wagon is possible on.
Should be obvious what that means.

So you're saying "most viable wagon from my scumreads". OK, let's roll with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the (relevant parts of the) vote count just before you moved your vote from Fate to Toog looked like this:

Fate (5) - Toogeloo, chesskid3, bunnylover, danakillsu, Katsuki
Toogeloo (3) - Fate, Jack, Sociopath

What made you conclude that a wagon on Toogeloo was viable, and not on Fate? Your vote switch made it four votes each.
And two of the three votes on the wagon you switched to were people you had devoted quite a bit of time to calling them scum.

Flail more, plz.