Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[singersigner]

I'm a Queen. I don't need to say hello

VOTE: Blood Queen

There can only be one queen in these here parts, and she be me.

[singersigner]

Based on not saying 'hi' or based upon stating a fact?

What makes you say that his gut had anything to do with that?

[singersigner]

Based on not saying 'hi' or based upon stating a fact?

What makes you say that his gut had anything to do with that?

What else is there?

Did it ever occur to you that this is all random? Everyone's kind of talking out of their ass right now.

Here:

VOTE: Guderian for being ambiguous.

[singersigner]

I think you misunderstand the concept of gut.

[singersigner]

VOTE: Singersigner

Policy.

Why?

Extreme inability to present herself in a way that is coherent and readable for fellow town-members resulting in potential liability of a mislynch in key scenarios.

Oh pooh. That was my first game! lol. Unless you feel I didn't do the second game we were in together justice...

[singersigner]

^^That must've been the game we were scum partners in. By god that caught me at a bad time. He sure was a trooper, though.

[singersigner]

Thor, I find you much more entertaining after I read our mafia QT after I was lynched and you kept posting your thoughts in it. Twas fantastical.

Gud...are you asking what I make of AGar asking the question? Or asking how relevant I feel the question is in it of itself?

[singersigner]

Before I justify your request by answering it, why do you feel the need to single me out? (yes I realize you then opened it up to the rest of the players)

and to clarify, you mean this one, right?

Guderian, what is your opinion on scum who try and steal the limelight?

[singersigner]

Well, since I can't speak for AGar, I'm just assuming he was responding to your

I got the feeling from just a few of your posts you seemed nervous, wanted to make friends and escape notice.

It seemed as though you just assume that scum do that, and I, for one don't feel as though that's ever the case. In fact, I think AGar can attest to the fact that my first newbie game had a very outspoken scum who won the game because I was rubbish and didn't know how to deal with it. I don't think it was an unjustified question at all, which is making me wonder why you care so much about it. It only became "mildly unreasonable" (where I can agree with you that you have no idea who is doing what until the end of the game) when you couldn't answer it the first time.

Why don't you care how scum or town play? Does that not affect your decisions and/or ability to play the game more effectively? For example, the game you say you watched with me and Thor...I didn't take well at all to his sarcasm and boisterous personality, which inherently got me lynched D1 because I was more concerned with his playstyle than the game itself.

I have a new question for you: how will you react to a playstyle you disagree with, but is proven to be effective?

[singersigner]

Um...I answered the question, dude...

[singersigner]

But in any case, you bring up a strongly opinionated argument:

Before I justify your request by answering it

¹

, why do you feel the need to single me out?

²

, (yes I realize you then opened it up to the rest of the players)

and to clarify, you mean this one, right?

Guderian, what is your opinion on scum who try and steal the limelight?

1: This is extremely strange. Why reserve the option to declare an innocuous question invalid. You are playing like clam - perfectly content with chatting about another game irrelevant to our current state , and consequently ostracizing those that can not relate. All the while being

overly

defensive. This is groundwork for active lurking and I don't like it.

2: What motivations could he possibly have for

singling you out

? This isn't a theme game. You have magically created a deflecting argument when there is scant a trace of hostility against you. What else could this be but a sense of self preservation too sharp to be helpful to the town.

1. That was my way of acknowledging that I actually had a reason for not answering it right away. Can you explain how you see that as "overly defensive"?
2. That's exactly what I was asking. I meant exactly what I asked...why was he singling my name out of all the others. I felt his response was quite valid if you ask me. Especially when he qualified it with "this is open to everyone." I suppose it should've read "is there any reason the question was directed at me first?"

[singersigner]

What do you think of people who don't answer the simplest, and most harmless questions readily? You'd have to plow through constant deflections to get anything pertaining to the game out of them. But on the other hand are just overflowing with ideas on things that have nothing to do with this particular game.

I don't appreciate people who can't answer questions/actively avoid them, without good reason for doing so. I wanted to know if there was any reason he specifically questioned me first before I felt comfortable asking a question he seemed to have problems with himself.

I'm wondering if you feel left out because Thor, Gud, and I, all know which game we're talking about, and you don't. You seem awfully bent on ridding us of simple banter in just the opening stage of the game.

[singersigner]

Did you think that was a harmless question he asked? Or potentially loaded?

[singersigner]

Ah, you're right. You did imply that.

So what's your reasoning for not answering his question?

[singersigner]

1. That was my way of acknowledging that I actually had a reason for not answering it right away. Can you explain how you see that as "overly defensive"?
2. That's exactly what I was asking. I meant exactly what I asked...why was he singling my name out of all the others. I felt his response was quite valid if you ask me. Especially when he qualified it with "this is open to everyone." I suppose it should've read "is there any reason the question was directed at me first?"

1.) What is your reason for not answering it right away, exactly? You didn't state it in the post. You would be ashamed the admit it. For your reason is: "I would like as little attention on me as possible. I would prefer to ask, rather than answer. I don't want to risk being lynched at all. I don't want to scum-hunt. I want to survive. By answering a question it would derail my ideal game-plan and shatter my fantasy".

2.) Try to answer your own questions before asking them. I can't answer for him, but notice that I'm singling you out.
a.) Clams have pearls within. If you are scum, then you will break beautifully. And you probably will.
b.) You are online, hurray!

I ask you again, look within yourself. Actually, pretend you aren't singer but a neutral third party.
What alignment specific motivation could exist so that you would single someone out on day one, when you have no information at all.
This is important. It highlights how this question is primarily deflection. A question you don't expect answered. But you'll rage if it isn't answered anyways.

3.) I've come to forgive your guy's prattle for now. But it's special with you. There is a stark contrast between your willingness for banter, and unwillingness to be involved in this game.

4.) You keep replying while I type. And you deflect questions by creating your own hollow ones.

Did you think that was a harmless question he asked? Or potentially loaded?

Why reserve the option to declare an innocuous question invalid.

Did I not answer your question, before you even asked for it.

1. Ahh, now see, that's the difference between wanting an honest answer from someone, and guiding them to the right one. I simply wanted to know if he had motivations for asking me in particular...he had none, as well as a reason why he might've "singled me out," and I am satisfied.
2. You're losing me with this clam metaphor...
If you played every town-aligned game to "what

scum

motivation does this person have?" do you think you would claim a town win every time? It doesn't necessarily matter if they had scum motivation. He had some motivation, and my reasoning for not answering the question yet was to find out what that was, first.
3. You're so kind.
4. I'm not aware of any questions I've deflected. You'll notice that you have yet to answer the "innocuous" question he asked earlier.

[singersigner]

Also, are you actually denying that he "singled me out"?

And honestly, I think the question was potentially loaded, since it seemed like he was looking for others' validation as to the innocence of AGar's question.

Also, your cute little "I would like as little attention on me as possible. I would prefer to ask, rather than answer. I don't want to risk being lynched at all. I don't want to scum-hunt. I want to survive. By answering a question it would derail my ideal game-plan and shatter my fantasy" is rather ironic considering you've spent so much effort focusing on how I waited for one more clarification before I answered the question, and you have yet to answer it.

This is noted.

[singersigner]

I'm wondering...if this is all a ploy...to see if I get riled up...over hypocrisy and misrepresentations...head...hurts...brain...bleeding...

I'm tired, so I'm going to bed, but here:

My answer: I believe that personality, that is, outspoken against introverted, is irrelevant. As it stands independently from alignment. You aren't introverted. You were afraid. Fear is connected with roles. That question is based on a faulty assumption, that it's generally accepted that scum post less than town. I don't feel like talking so much about game theory, especially considering I've typed quite a bit today.

Also, are you actually denying that he "singled me out"

1

?

And honestly, I think the question was potentially loaded, since it seemed like he was looking for others' validation as to the innocence of AGar's question.

2

Also, your cute little "I would like as little attention on me as possible. I would prefer to ask, rather than answer. I don't want to risk being lynched at all. I don't want to scum-hunt. I want to survive. By answering a question it would derail my ideal game-plan and shatter my fantasy" is rather ironic considering you've spent so much effort focusing on how I waited for one more clarification before I answered the question, and you have yet to answer it.

3

This is noted.

1: Where did you get that? I've made no such denial. You seem to be in the habit of seeing threats that don't exist.
2: "It's loaded because by answering it you imply that it isn't loaded." Please clarify. This makes no sense.
3: There is a difference between the fact that I didn't immediately answer the question, and the fact that you exaggerated an unwillingness to answer it. The real irony here is that you continue this question spam is deflection.

1. By claiming that my statement that he singled me out was uncalled for, you implied that you disagreed. When you questioned what his motivation for "singling" anyone out D1 was, you again implied that you disagreed this is what he was doing. Why was it so wrong that I was questioning him, when here you can't admit that you didn't actually think he was singling me out?
2. What? Are those quotes implying that's what I meant? Answering loaded questions are at the discretion of the individual. I was wondering if that was your reasoning for not having answered yet. I'm still not quite sure if you answered the question he was actually asking. Seemed a little jilted to me...
3. Misrep: I wouldn't say it was exaggerated OR unwilling to answer. Especially since I didn't need someone questioning me time and time again to answer it. You however, barely acknowledged it beyond my clarification post, and had yet to answer until I asked you about it at least twice beyond the original question he posted.

1. Ahh, now see, that's the difference between wanting an honest answer from someone, and guiding them to the right one. I simply wanted to know i

f he had motivations for asking me in particular...he had none,

as well as a reason why he might've "singled me out,"

and I am satisfied.

1

2. You're losing me with this clam metaphor...

2

If you played every town-aligned game to "what scum motivation does this person have?" do you think you would claim a town win every time? It doesn't necessarily matter if they had scum motivation.

He had some motivation

, and my reasoning for not answering the question yet was to find out what that was, first.
3. You're so kind.

³

4. I'm not aware of any questions I've deflected. You'll notice that you have yet to answer the "innocuous" question he asked earlier.

1: By asking "why me?". And then being relieved by reply of "I dunno lol". You would be relieved? What else could this be but a sign of fear.
2: I've called your overdeveloped sense of self preservation clammy before. Because you know, a clam is hard and closed and stuff. Don't worry

, I'll try to talk more simply from now on.

3: Sarcasm is the perfect substitute to an actual response.

Derp.

My point stands. Your selective approach on communicating isn't a joke.

4:

I. You know he has a motivation
II. You are satisfied that he didn't have a reason

Am I getting dizzy, or are you contradicting yourself?

1. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here. But you seem to be confused at what I said, so let me say it again: he didn't have motivation for asking me individually (which was clear by his opening the question up to everyone), explained why he only singled out my name, and then I was satisfied. What about that didn't make sense to you?
2. Another misrep: I'd really like to know how you read so much into this "overly developed sense of self-preservation" which I still cannot seem to grasp where you got that from. Your sarcasm is noted though.
3. Oh look...who said what about sarcasm^ now?
4. Excuse me. He had some motivation

for asking the question in the first place

." I was looking for

Reason

as to why my name was singled out.

I'm actually bringing this back, because I found yet another misrep:

3.) I've come to forgive your guy's prattle for now. But it's special with you. There is a stark contrast between your willingness for banter, and unwillingness to be involved in this game.

Does is strike anyone else as odd that he very specifically says I'm unwilling to be involved in this game?

I really think you're getting dizzy. VOTE: Carrotcake. Can we lynch scum now?

[singersigner]

Sims, CA, have you actually our entire exchange, or do you honestly find nothing scummy about any of it?

Though, I admit, it IS boring. Just not in the "this doesn't contribute to finding scum" sort of way.

Unvote

Vote: sims

Interesting. And what's your reason?

I was going to ask him the same thing. I don't like people who place votes with seemingly no reason. Though I must admit, this was the first rational reaction I've seen from you yet (before the most recent calming down). I can actually get on board with a Gud lynch right now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guderian

[singersigner]

Sims: I didn't like Gud's reaction to AGar in the first place, but combine that with his view on people's playstyle and his vote on you with no explanation. Looks rather opportunistic to me.

Thor: I feel as though sims was the one overreacting and CA was only pointing out flaws in sims logic, perhaps more aggressively than sim is used to on this site.

caps lock doesn't equate to awesome - it equates to yelling.

HIMYNAMEISFATEANDI'MOBNOXIOUS.

qft.

[singersigner]

@singer - Shhhh, Fate is special.

Also, if you could see sims as overreacting why do you think it's strange that Gud would vote him after the overreaction?

I interpreted it as a newb distraught over people misunderstanding their intentions. Gud never gave a reason for his vote, so I'm curious as to how exactly he interpreted it. Or if he was just leaving it up to other people to figure out so he could tag along with them. Hence, why I feel it's opportunistic.

Powerrox: It's not a self-contradiction if he never said it was overreacting to begin with.

[singersigner]

Not liking Confid's vote against sims. It's based upon sims not commenting on anything that has happened so far, but in the same post in which Confid votes sims, he doesn't mention the Carrot VS Singer discussion or the AGar VS Guderian debate either.

I actually agree with this. There were at least three/four other people (minus me and CC) who at least acknowledged the debate w/plans on commenting on it later, including Sims who promised something on it...whereas as CA himself had no comments on "the bigger debate at hand" and votes Sims for fluff and RVS.

Back to Thor. You mentioned at the start that you don't like it when players try to keep the RVS going. So how come no mentioning of sims random vote that started the Confid VS sims arguements?

Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's cause for concern.

Not too thrilled about Power's last post, mainly due to him stretching what sims has said.

This.

Anyway,

unvote; vote AGar

What was the ultimate cause of this vote?

And because last to post is not only pase' it's also totally ignoring the two larger wagons that were already rampaging around and I dislike players who try to slow down the exit of the RVS.
Why'd you feel a need to ask my reasoning on Rhinox and not really have any issues whatsoever with my primary suspicion reasoning on AGar which, though explained, was most assuredly flimsy?

I'm with Thor on this one. Questioning the reasoning of one but not the other, suspiciously selective.

Why do we have talk about every single player at the same time?

Because overlooking one person for doing something scummy, while pointing someone else out for doing the same thing is called playing favorites.

Unvote: Rhinox
Vote: AGar

because I know him IRL and he is SUPER SCUMMY.

Why random vote when we aren't in random anymore?

[/quote]Says you. I happen to like my random vote, and I'll be damned if I let some debate take that away from me.

[singersigner]

unvote

Vote: Thor665

I was looking forward to us both being town thor . Who are your scum buddies?

I've counted, and this is the one, two, three,

fourth

time you've placed a vote with no grounds for doing so.

[singersigner]

I'm really quite neutral on you singer, but the amount of deflection and crap that I have to plow through to get anything from you isn't good for my heart.

Aw, man!

I

wanted to use that joke!!



No but seriously, I don't get you. This nonsense with Thor...I really don't think you have any idea of what you're talking about. It's clear that Thor uses jokes naturally in his playstyle. If that bothers you, too bad. Don't learn the hard way like I did. Also, now you're misrepping Thor with saying he voted for someone when he clearly didn't...I'd like a Gud lynch more than you right now, but you're seriously on my hit list.

Stop this sims tomfoolery wagon now.

Gud: How do you figure a Thor,

Reck

, sims scum team?

[singersigner]

Were you interested in Rhinox and not AGar or weren't you?¹ You're playing a weak semantics game and hiding behind a defense someone else provided you without even having the conviction to say whether or not you were or were not interested in AGar.²

1: After I've got the explanation of Rhinox then there was a large chance of me asking questions about AGar.
2: Well sorry because of the fact that I wasn't at home by the time CC posted that posts.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor665

You haven't exactly explained why you placed a vote on Thor. Same problem I have with Gud placing a vote with no reason.

By page seven, it seems Thor is more interested in making friends than anything else. Jokes, silliness and just a general style talking. Gut feeling is that he want to be the 'good guy' of the town. I get distinct scum vibes when I read his posts.

So, you placed a vote based on vibes? Seriously, I just wanted to make it clear to everyone why you and PR have no grounds to vote Thor.

These two posts are the smartest thing you've said all game, Gud.

I've decided this (plus past outbursts) simply means you're the town VI. Gud hasn't said anything smart this game.

CA, thank you for seeing the light. Hey, I like Thor, too!!!

What's your current read on Powerrox - he's flinging newbie juice from his pores right at the moment and I want to hear someone else tack a crack at wading through it to find the town/scum nougat center.

I'm on it! *dawns cape and super powers*

When and why did confid switch from sims is kinda newbie-- its all right--, to bloodqueen is kinda newbie, obvious scum?

Oh geez...more opportunism. When you finally realize Thor's an AWFUL lynch, are you setting up your cards to bus/mislynch? Let me know how that works out for you.

No but really, I'm gunna take a look back at Powerrox and BQ. I'm still not seeing how they're any more scummy than Gud right now.

[singersigner]

Why is thor an awful lynch from your point of view?

Selective reading much? I really think you should respond to my first question of why you think he's worth lynching before I convince you of why it's a bad idea.

[singersigner]

The fact that you quoted my reason and still saw fit to post that is strange. I am getting the feeling that the lynch for your point of view must be simply anybody OTHER than thor. There are a couple reason I could think for this line of thought, and none of them good.

Can you point out which post it was where I specifically quoted your reasons? Now, I'm looking for reasons. Not just fluff that says "well this feeling, I, uhhh, vibes, could be, but I don't have anything of substance to say, buuuh?"

[singersigner]

I have pointed out what is scummy. Instead of sticking you fingers in your ears and yelling about, careful go back and look at thor. Then look at his interactions with sims. Check out confid's change in tune. Look at your own interactions with thor, and evaluate, "is this making me look scummy?"

Don't get angry/emotion, use logic. Then come back.

I'd prefer someone who doesn't ask me to do his work for him. No. I do not find Thor scummy. And since you can't seem to find any evidence other than a gut feeling/vibe, you'll excuse me for siding with someone who's actually been useful in this game so far.

Though your resort to deflection and inability to offer up evidence of scumminess is noted.

[singersigner]

I'd rather not go on, because clearly you don't want to listen, but you almost just admitted to being a useless part of the town, by being unable to actually look through and think and question things. I'm asking you to look for yourself and decide.

No. You didn't ask me just to decide.

You

asked

me

to find what

you

find scummy, even though

you

haven't actually said what that is yet. I've been reading the thread, and haven't yet found anything about Thor that I find particularly scummy. Even the AGar/Thor exchange about the "test" (or whatever it was), didn't strike me as terribly odd, though AGar thinking he could do that to Thor seems a little beneath his caliber of scum-hunting.

Stop telling me simply to look at things, and tell me what you find scummy. The fact that you have yet to make a case is beyond me.

Confirm vote: Guderian

[singersigner]

singersigner insulting Fate makes us want to POLICY LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF HER. HEY. HEY. HEY. SINGER. IS THIS ENOUGH CAPS LOCK FOR YOU? WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

*sigh* I really didn't mean it as an insult, I hope you guys know that. It was a joke made because Thor pointed out that Sims or whoever it was didn't really realize how their capslock was coming off. If anyone knows Fate, they know something or two about capslock. S'all.


Anyway, apology aside, I'll be commenting on recent happenings later.

Gud...you're an idiot.

[singersigner]

The bolded bothers me. It is noted that you didn't start referring to yourself as a newb until others wrote off your odd behavior earlier as newbtells.

Holy god, are we still on about this? I admitted to being a newb as soon as the question of my experience was brought up. Nothing to hide there. Why is that still stuck in your craw?

1.

How? I dont understand any of this post. Offer allegiance???

Okay. As soon as you claimed SK, CarrotCake piped up an immediately started defending you, going so far as to posit that we should not only avoid voting for you, but

keep you alive for as long as possible

to use you as leverage and get you to help us lynch scum.

2.

Sounds like an allegiance to me, no?

1. This is irrelevant. The only relevance it has is when you start using it to defend your actions. Oh wait... No, we're not going to hold your hand. Just give us what you have, and THEN we'll tell you if it's dumb. Don't try to preemptively cover up dumb cases by saying "oh I'm not good, I'm just a newb" etc.
2. This is true. CC did look fairly opportunistic by jumping on the possibility of an "allegiance." I don't think it's a good idea.

@Confid - Um...wait, so you're saying that because I believe the guy claiming SK isn't an SK that makes me the SK? Theoretically by you believing I could be the SK you just showed that you don't believe Gud is the SK which suggests you are the SK by the same logic. Please, go bang your head against a wall a few times until that logic slips out of it. Also, just because Gud didn't outright deny his roleclaim doesn't mean he didn't do it pretty clearly.

You conveniently sidestepped where he pointed out that you claimed Gud retracted his claim. I'm trying to see where you might've even interpreted anything he's posted as saying such. Mind clearing that up for me?

Plus, Guderian should fully reveal all of his powers. To allow us to judge the truthfullness of his claim, and grant us insight. Who knows, maybe we can work out a deal; such as giving us the option of forcing a draw in case things go badly for the town.

I've already agreed with those who point out the ridiculousness of your "allegiance" idea. Did you really think that through?

Whoever hammers before things get sorted out will be crucified tommorow. The: "He was scummy and I regret nothing!" isn't going to cut it.

I agree with Reckamonic. Your threats are empty in this game.

A lot of people are looking scummy. Not least of all the dynamic duo: agar and thor.

It's funny that you point these two out specifically, and yet your vote is still placed on me.


Clearly the only option is to lynch Guderian. I see nothing good out of keeping him alive.

[singersigner]

I would argue my play this game has been the most pro town out of anybodies.

Yes. You will argue that. And the fact that you even have to shows that it really wasn't. Pro-town is what it is. There aren't any real discrepancies about it.

Gud, I have a question for you (or maybe a couple):
-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

[singersigner]

by the way, from my view, All of sims/singer/power had the same reaction to my claim, which I didn't expect. All are newer, so I expected the scum among them to act differently. But, Basically along the lines of, he claims SK, hes mafia, lynch him!

Oh this is absolute nonsense. I didn't think you were scum only because you claimed SK. Go back and read my posts; that was just one folly in a long list of scummy moves you've made this whole game.

This.

[singersigner]

I promise no such thing. I plan on lynching those who seem scummiest. Right now, with your little gambit, that's you. Are you purposely been ignoring my questions, or have you just not seen them yet?

Also, we're not the only ones who have you pegged as scum because of this. Take a look at the last page or two.

[singersigner]

Are you purposely been ignoring my questions, or have you just not seen them yet?

[singersigner]

Gud, I have a question for you (or maybe a couple):
-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

[singersigner]

Actually, I have found that usually only scum call others "obv scum". Not sure why this is, usually it seems to stem from an inner knowledge that the person is not scum, ergo they aren't committing scum actions, ergo the actual scum must appeal to emotion more than a townie does.

which is what you're doing. Which is why you're scum.

I mean, you've definitely done more AtE than I've anyone do in this game. Calling someone obv scum/obv town doesn't really fit into that category. I see Carrot's kindly taken over answering one of the questions I've asked you. However, I'd really like to see you answer them...for once...

[singersigner]

Hold on. Don't get anxious at L-1? I just let and be hammered?

Dont have a grasp on the games?

Also avoided:

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

How did he avoid them? Looks to me like this

Considering Gud-scum,

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

Bussing you (sim) and going "hey, we should compromise" (carrotcake)
The counterwagon would be Seraphim, except nobody is buying into Carrot's crap, so it's not taking off.

is answering it just fine.

Gud, if you really have nothing to lose because you are truly town, then I am asking, no begging, PLEASE acknowledge and answer all of the questions I, and I'm sure a few others, have asked. My patience is wearing thin.

[singersigner]

I was talking to Agar...

and we're supposed to know that...how?

[singersigner]

Gud, I have a question for you (or maybe a couple):
-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

Let's try this again...

[singersigner]

Good luck getting your answer, he DID try to shoot you <<

Good point.

[singersigner]

Alert: this is the last post I will post any sort of defense about.

-You say you got what you wanted, but isn't it more pro-town to get what the town wanted? Which is to not have to decide whether your play was for our benefit or not. I don't find your cocky attitude or your self-righteousness that you've actually done some town some good to be appealing at all.
-What about false-claiming SK did you think we would understand?
-Did you account for the potential mislynch (if you're now telling the truth) that might happen if no one agreed with you?
-Can you reiterate what information we were supposed to gain from this again?

1. Correct. But, what I got was what the town got. I'm not concerned with how you find my attitude. You obviously don't like me.
2. REACTIONS.
3. To be honest, I didn't anticipate this gang bang to occur. Seriously. Why Would I draw attention to myself like that.
4. REACTIONS. Like recka/agar scum, with one prob off the wagon. Thinking confid/rhinox. Maybe more. Most of the scum wont want to be involved in this terrible mislynch when it happens.

1. Yes, yes. We all got the same thing. But notice how you compare what you got to what town got, not what town wanted.
2. I understand the reactions part of it, but amidst all your fluff about reactions, I've still been unclear as to your interpretations of them. Not until your answer to #4...but I'd like you to embellish as to how their reactions are terribly incriminating when sims, power, and I (your three town reads), had the same-ish reactions.
3. WIFOM.
4. What happened to Thor being scum? You seemed so confident he was scum earlier, with no reasoning of course. And curious...how many scum ARE there?

You call this a terrible mislynch. Honestly, because of your little charade, I think the best thing for town is if you hung your head between your legs and took it like a man. If you're around later in the game, it can cause more problems. The best way to deal with this unfortunate situation is to get rid of it, and learn what we can from there. Something that's great about these games, is that we can always afford at least one mislynch, and if this is it, and least we won't have your crappy logic/shinnigans to deal with in the future. PLUS, we can take your reads and actually trust them to more of an extent than we can now. I really hope you can see how that would be more beneficial to town than what you did.

[singersigner]

I'm going back to my gut and saying Carrot's scum. Who the heck tries to make an alliance with an SK?

VOTE: Carrotcake

Thor, why AGar? and what's your read on Sims (though I'm almost certain I agree)?

[singersigner]

That was a little fast Seraph. What makes you think Carrot's scum over BQ or Thor? You have a lot of speculation and analysis semi PoE-ing those

on

the wagon, but what do you make of those

off

the wagon?

[singersigner]

I had been writing that post for a while. I saw no reason to change my vote based on your vote.

I have some specific reason for voting carrot but I want to see a reaction first. Thor, I'm fairly sure, is town. Blood Queen hasn't posted enough for me to get a solid read.

K, so looking at the time stamps, that completely makes sense. I agree with you about BQ. She honestly hasn't been around much lately, and at the beginning it was a lot of petty argument nonsense (IMO).

Thor, why AGar? and what's your read on Sims (though I'm almost certain I agree)?

AGar because he's suspicious to me since he doesn't look more town.

Sims is town because of his last post yesterday. The 'He's Smurfing with us, lynch him' vote just doesn't strike me as something scum would have the balls to say while pushing through a mislynch. I'm pretty sure the scum on that wagon came prior to Gud developing a second personality.

Hmm...I disagree. To me, Gud was a mislynch waiting to happen when he claimed SK. It gave scum every excuse to just be like, "crapcrapcrappidy crap, why isn't he dead yet??" My serious concern is why Carrot thought forming an "alliance" would be a good idea. It seemed incredibly opportunistic and unintelligible, which is exactly something an unexperienced mafia scum would do. How do you interpret that?

Also, by your theory, AGar should be lower on your potential scum reads, considering he didn't hop on til the end.

[singersigner]

Re: crapcrapcrappidy - I agree that he was a mislynch waiting to happen, but that feeds into my sims belief as sims came in late and waited for the dual persona to develop before he wrote Gud off.

Re: Carrot - I'm still not sure I really buy into your Carrot/Gud alliance. If you think it doesn't make sense maybe you should reexamine its worth as a case. I don't like to make cases for what inexperienced scum would do, I consider that a WIFOM nightmare. I'm much more comfortable with inexperienced town tells and consider them more universal.

Re: AGar - he hopped on before the split personality part of the case and his logic for how he slid on is hardly stellar. Do you consider the timing/method of his Gud vote to be worth clearing him on?

1. Ok. That I agree with about Sims.
2. I think writing it off as WIFOM like that is a bad idea. If you didn't interpret it that way, that's fine. But not even taking it into account is plain irresponsible. It's not the only reason I'm voting for him, though. Don't make the mistake of thinking that's the case.
3. Re: question-not at all. Was AGar the one who's logic/vote you questioned?

[singersigner]

Bah hah. Reck.

I'm thinking he's trying to use that to see what looks townie or not. NK speculation can be dangerous so early on, though...

[singersigner]

I also know Guderian from a past game, he was a cool calm fella. And such irrational movements from him wasn't indicative scum.

And you refrained from divulging your knowledge of his meta from us...why?

You people are horrible players for lynching him. Full of ego like that. And know you plan to vindicate those who isn't part of your ignorance.
But relax. I don't lynch horrible players.

lol. I really want you to take a good, hard look at this statement and see if you can point out why it doesn't make sense...if you can give me one of a couple reasons, I'll be happy.

[singersigner]

NK speculation can be dangerous so early on, though...

Can you please expand this point a bit?

I've seen NK speculation be very beneficial later on, when patterns have formed, and less people are around (i.e. the field is narrowed). It's just difficult to use the same logic after just one night. I'm not saying it can't be used (it might be an addendum to a case); I would just advise against it being a primary source of a case so early in the game.

[singersigner]

Hmm, this reminds me...

V/LA from December 26-30

. I LOVE getting free trips during post-football season!

Noted as well

[singersigner]

And singer, before you go: "It's not imaginary if people are voting!".

1.) Seraph is voting against me because of omgus.
2.) You, too, are omgusing.
3.) Agar is trying to save his neck by building momentum on someone else.

Wanna try that again? Just because you claim something is omgus, doesn't make it true. Why don't you actually try building a case on someone for once? I might just have a little more respect for you.

Oh, are you going to try and say you weren't "singling me out" this time?

[singersigner]

UNVOTE:
My vote's useless while V/LA. See ya on the flip side.

[singersigner]

Hey. Back. Reading up tomorrow. Cheers.

[singersigner]

You got lucky and replaced the townie. The other guy is scum, along with AGar and singersinger.

Mothrax and PR are definitely town.
Seraphim and Thor are probably town.
Watch Reckamonic closely.

You seriously think sims is scum? I might agree with you about AGar, since I can't exactly figure him out, but sims? What got you there?

Hey, it's like 4:42 AM lol. So I've read through the thread, no giant catch up post but a better post shall come soon I assure you. I like Nacho's reads, singer has been a consistent scum read of mine throughout the whole game while Agar isn't too clean either.

Not sure about sims/reck though, what's the reasoning for Seraphim town?

While you're reading through the thread, it'd be nice if you could point out what exactly makes me (or anyone else for that matter) scum. I get the feeling there's a little OMGUS in that read. It's ok, though, I forgive you.

Yes, welcome me, I assure you that I do infact, come in peace. I would like everyone to give me their top three suspects as I read through the thread. Since you're reading Nacho you can start. Who should I be wary of, could you please bring me up to speed?

Also, no. This is just scum asking the other townies to say, hey, who do you already think is scum so when I read through the thread, I can have a little confirmation bias and already pin these people as scum.

[singersigner]

tl;dr

1.

Lack of genuine play, simply tries to win arguments as opposed to put an honest effort into reading people.

2.

Hostile attacks consist of repetition of buzz words and the like to discredit her targets, this seems to be her MOI.

3.

The sudden drop of the CC case, weak case on day two.

1. If it came across that way to you, that's unfortunate. I did push to determine a read, and I came back to that read at the beginning of D2 after the whole Gud debacle.
2. There's a difference between discrediting the argument versus discrediting the person. I don't know what "MOI" is supposed to be an acronym for...if you're using it as the french word for "me"...then I really don't know what it means.
3.a. I never dropped the case. Do you disagree that Gud wasn't worth paying attention to? If you're referring to my unvote before I left for V/LA, then that's a personal preference that you'll have to deal with. I don't want to come back from my V/LAs with my vote having contributed to a lynch of someone before they had a chance to explain anything I might be questioning. But thanks for reminding me I can put my vote back now: VOTE: Lateralus
3.b. You're calling my case on D2 "weak." I didn't even post a case yet. I'm not sure what you're trying to do with that. This, along with the rest of your case, feels like you trying to discredit a

person

, instead of an

argument

.

Attack the results, not the method of finding them.

Oh, and your little gem about me making fun of your suspicion of me, but not agreeing with the previous OMGUS declaration before (can't remember who it was), is cute. What is that...an argument?

[singersigner]

1. Okay. But I don't see you at all trying to actually evaluate her alingment. All I saw was constant attacks, nothing more.
2. MOI = Method of Operation, I don't see you purely discrediting arguments, here is an example of you discrediting a person.

Also, no. This is just scum asking the other townies to say, hey, who do you already think is scum so when I read through the thread, I can have a little confirmation bias and already pin these people as scum.

3. I'm talking about the CC case, not Gud. The moment everyone started complaining about it you took off when you saw no one else was interested. You kept your suspicions on the side only bringing them up when CC attacked you again.
3b. I considered this and this to be your case. This were your reasons and they are weak. Not interested in getting in a semantics argument on what a "case" is.

Attack the results, not the method of finding them.

I've done both, your method of getting them is scummy.

Oh, and your little gem about me making fun of your suspicion of me, but not agreeing with the previous OMGUS declaration before (can't remember who it was), is cute. What is that...an argument?

I literally can not understand what you're saying here. Please clarify.

1. Was my vote not evidence of what I thought CC's alignment was?
2. It's funny that you bring up that as a method of discrediting a person, when you immediately turn around and respond to the next thing with "you took off when no one was interested." You say you don't want to argue about semantics, when your first WoT was clouded with your own interpretation of what I did. What I did there was simply state my interpretation of what you did, and why I disagree with it.
3. I'm not really sure what you expect town to do when there's someone else scummier. I'm wondering how you feel about sticking to your "convictions" and voting AGar, when you clearly (or so I thought) find me scummier.


Your gem: I was poking fun that I suddenly became one of your top suspects, when it was clear that I had been suspicious of you all along. You're comparing that to "just because you call something OMGUS, doesn't make it true" when (I think it was) Seraph voted for someone who retaliated with "OMGUS!"...when there wasn't an orginal suspicion of Seraph, as far as I could tell. You hadn't posted a case yet. There wasn't any reason for me to think that you had any reason to be suspicious of me other than the fact that I had called out your scummy predecessor earlier in the game.

[singersigner]

Blah. Crapattack loss of internet phone post. Catching up soon, loves.

[singersigner]

Well, I guess this confirms Seraph-scum for me. I'm only a Vanilla Townie, so unless DH was playing a sick game with some really weird role (like an insane or random watcher??), or he messed up somewhere (which I highly doubt considering the circumstances)...

VOTE: Seraphim
(I'll be

seriously

looking at your ISO through the rest of this massclaim...unless you want to just answer this question for me: who are your scum buddiez?)

It's your word against mine. I can see why you wouldn't want to go up against Reckamonic or Thor...

Lat, you're up.

[singersigner]

Is there any other way of explaining a false result on a VT other than it being claimed by scum? I'm pretty sure there isn't in a normal...

Reck...what about my response? Also, Nacho's right. Either that, or if I were a cop/doctor. I can't think of too many other scenarios...

[singersigner]

@singer - if you were a cop/doc then watcher Seraph should have seen two people target mothrax. In all honesty Nacho was more on the money then myself because really the only way for you not to be scum in Seraph's eyes is if there is a scum ninja role (or a bus driver/redirector sorta deal?)

I'll be wanting to discuss the mothrax targeting in any case once the claims are done with.

@Lat - also, delay to claim is scummy. Speed is pro-town

Cuz dead mothrax=1 scum + 1 cop/doc. Gotcha. (I'm actually proud of myself for not asking you to explain that to me, lol)

I'm unfamiliar with the scum ninja role...but I'm pretty sure that, along with the bus driver/redirector...those aren't mini normal roles.

Also, Thor, it seems as though you've already decided to believe Seraph's claim ("because really the only way for you not to be scum in Seraph's eyes is if..."). Why?

Reck, do you believe this is an honest bussing deal? Because scum would have to get through another day that way. It's been established that we're in LYLO, so it would be more beneficial for scum to go three*scum* against one*townie* as opposed to two*scum* against one*scum*. There would be no reason for scum to go against one of their own unless they genuinely thought they couldn't get one of the remaining three townies on board with their mislynch target.

Preview Edit:

Is there any other way of explaining a false result on a VT other than it being claimed by scum?

I'm pretty sure there isn't in a normal...

Note the bolded. I'm eliminating all other options to prove that Seraph is scum. If I thought there were any other way that it could still be TvT, I wouldn't have voted in my first response to him. You forget that my FIRST response was SERAPH IS SCUM.

Re: my response, you said you didn't like it. Since it's more or less incriminating to just state something is worthy of disapproval without explaining why...mostly just curious as to why you didn't like it, that's all.


Something I CAN deduce, however, is that there is at least one, if not two other townies within the combination of Nacho, Thor, and Reckamonic, since if they were all scum, they could just hop on to either wagon. It's likely that at least Thor is scum with Seraph. It seemed a little convenient that Thor wanted either Reck or Seraph to claim first. Reck kind of just jumped on that voluntarily (though unless there's a counter-claim, I'm highly inclined to believe him...though EFF, if they're scum, they had all the time in the world to think of "good" claims to fuck with the town).

DemonHybrid:

IT'S NOT FAIR IF THOR, RECK, AND SERAPH ARE

ALL

SCUM TOGETHER.

[singersigner]

Now that's we've determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that singersigner is scum, can we please quiet down so we can out her buddies?

What's that? Flailing scum?

I THINK SO.

I'd LOVE to see how you've "determined beyond a shadow of a doubt" that I'm scum.

Lat, I don't mind if you refrain from claiming until Seraph figures out my supposed scumbuddies. This oughta be good...

[singersigner]

SS, he already claimed a watcher result on you targeting mothrax, who is now dead. You claimed vanilla. Now, all possibilities other than you being fakeclaiming townie + mafia ninja have been taken care of, and if that's the case, then I would probably kill you.

I don't understand.

The first half of this sounds like it's responding to something I said, but I don't know what.

The second half is incomplete in explanation. What other possibilities are you referring to, and have you already assumed that I'm lying then? This isn't a themed game. Mafia ninja shouldn't even be a possibility.

Preview Edit:

SS's request for Lat to delay claiming reflects badly on both of them.

It could be anyone who decided they wanted to claim; however, your delay to call out my supposed scum partners is scummy. You must be afraid to incriminate other innocent townies or call out your own scum buddies, huh. Yeah, I thought so.

Next time you respond, can you please name the two other players you find scummiest/my supposed partners? If you can't, you're withholding=very anti-town.

I will say, though, that your seemingly random case on me yesterday set my mislynch up perfectly today. You may fool the rest of town, but you don't fool me.


Some more food for thought: wouldn't you think that if he were telling the truth, he should've waited to catch someone in a lie before he knew for sure? Claiming, yes; revealing results, no. He called his result guilty before I even had a chance to claim VT or otherwise. If I claimed cop it would've cleared me, yes?

[singersigner]

Also, Thor, it seems as though you've already decided to believe Seraph's claim ("because really the only way for you not to be scum in Seraph's eyes is if..."). Why?

You're completely misrepping Thor - he's saying from Seraph's point of view, you have to be scum unless you're a ninja. He in no way, shape, or form implied anything from HIS point of view.

I was not misrepping Thor. He mentioned nothing of Seraph being scum in my eyes which made me think he had already chosen to believe Seraph over me. Hence why I thought he was scummier looking in response to me than you were.

Reck, do you believe this is an honest bussing deal? Because scum would have to get through another day that way. It's been established that we're in LYLO, so it would be more beneficial for scum to go three*scum* against one*townie* as opposed to two*scum* against one*scum*. There would be no reason for scum to go against one of their own unless they genuinely thought they couldn't get one of the remaining three townies on board with their mislynch target.

Did you even read what we wrote? Here, allow us to bold it for you:

This whole thing kinda reeks of scum bussing scum, to be completely honest.

Not sure why this would be optimal play in endgame.

We were implying that the attacks between the two of you didn't feel genuine on either end. Seraphim due to the theatrics of his claim, and then you due to the fact that you tried to help Seraphim weasel out of it.

I was not at all trying to weasel Seraph out of it. It was absolutely to show that this is a mini normal, and that there are no other options other than one or both of us is scum. Don't accuse me of being on his side, please. It's insulting.

Re: my response, you said you didn't like it. Since it's more or less incriminating to just state something is worthy of disapproval without explaining why...mostly just curious as to why you didn't like it, that's all.

Here, it's this part, specifically.

I'm only a Vanilla Townie, so

unless DH was playing a sick game

with some really weird role (like an insane or random watcher??), or

he messed up somewhere

(which I highly doubt considering the circumstances)…

It sat wrong with us because you were so damn open to the idea of there being an error or wacky mechanic somewhere… which doesn't jive with the rest of your post, which includes a vote on Seraphim and a blatant statement of this being a 1v1 scenario.

Again, disproving the fact that it was possible to have something go wrong with that.

What's that? Flailing scum?

Oh, irony, how we love thee. Your response to Seraphim's claim has been textbook flailing: attempt to rationalize why there would be a guilty result on you (instead of directly attacking Seraphim's claim himself), then once the noose started to get tighter and tighter around your neck, you started to misrep people and take their arguments/statements out of context, all the while attacking your attackers (OMGUS much?).

Did I just respond to the SAME THING THREE TIMES? I was absolutely attacking Seraph's claim. He was wrong. Every time I mentioned that there being another scenario other than that was pointing out that it was unrealistic. Again, no misrep against Thor. The fact that you even took it as that...
Wait, attacking my attackers? The only one who's been blatantly gunning for me is Seraph. I'm getting to the bottom of this and not backing down from trying to figure out who's left of the three scum. Something Seraph seems to cowardly to do because he knows that all he needs is to convince town I'm scum and he wins with the rest of scum.

You obviously

had

to counterclaim Seraphim's watch result, but what makes you think Thor665 is more likely to be scum than us? The fact of the matter is, sitting on this end, you have yet to list a reason on why Thor is scummier/we are townier.
What about Lateralus? Or Nachomamma? Or really, anyone else?

I've always thought Lat was scummy. That's why I wanted him to claim next. Nacho...is probably town because of his reaction. Can't get a read on Power and she has yet to respond, so I don't know yet. You and Thor are left with your reactions and gameplay thus far. I've thought Thor was town until his reaction to this and what seemed to be readiness to believe Seraph over me. You...well, I've already stated that your reaction was semi-fencesitting, which was annoying.

You are grasping at straws in order to make people believe your cries of "Conspiracy! Conspiracy!" in hopes that they will turn on your attackers. Occam's Razor would imply that you ARE caught scum. The only thing that is really bothering me now (meh, guess the theatrics can be forgiven) is the fact that Seraphim chose to watch mothrax… who would CERTAINLY not have been our first pick to be watched were we watcher. Not particularly liking Seraphim's #617 where he can't even find an explanation as to why he picked mothrax, but we're disliking SS's reaction and play here much more.

Occam's Razor has absolutely no place in mafia. The mafia gods are insulted that you would even think to use that as any means of a "case" against someone.

You're right about Mothrax being an odd choice. Can you connect the dots, though? It has to do with NK speculation more than anything. Why would you think Mothrax would be the NK choice over way more experienced/intimidating players (i.e. you and Thor)? And who would be a better choice to set up for a false guilty?

[singersigner]

He says "

we've

determined" like everyone else needs to see how he's right and I'm wrong. I'd love to see how he could do that without just saying, "but I'm rite guyz! she's so scumzzz!"

Ok, so you agree that there's no possibility that we can't BOTH be town.

I'd really like to hear a response from Seraph, and Lat/PR need to come back now.

[singersigner]

Here, I fixed it for you:

You did catch me in a lie. I claimed you targeted mothrax last night, even though that's impossible because you are just a vanilla townie.

Alright, the Mothrax thing...I'm thinking through my targeting process and while a majority of it was gut, when scum get that extra kill after a nolynch leading into a LYLO situation(like this one), they tend to kill a player who was not very vocal or was "useless" in the game to give the town as little information as possible leading into the next day. That was my semi-logic there. Obviously, picking the most vocal town players wasn't working.

Though the logic makes sense, how come it took you so long to explain it after being questioned and called out for a bullshit reason more than once? It was only AFTER you got called out on not having a valid reason that you tried to come up with an excuse to try and prove that you had genuine intentions for supposedly watching him.

What were your reasons for targeting Nacho? Reckamonic was twice as much more vocal than him.

[singersigner]

I've got a theory but I need to see what everyone else is claiming first.

Yo tambien...mine's probably more of a stretch, though, since it's more than simply catching you

redhanded

. (See? I made a funny! lol.)

[singersigner]

singer, shut the fuck up scumbag. Seriously.

Reck, you too.

No one says shit until PR claims though I have a theory as to what he's going to claim.

Stop trying to be Fate. You're not. Just because you outed yourself to me doesn't give you the right to start talking to me like that because all of a sudden your plan didn't go the way you wanted it to. No one's buying it, and I'm pretty sure you just outed your scum buddies, too. We'll see...

And seriously, stop playing god. You act like you're in a position of power or something.

Is anyone familiar with this aggressive playstyle from Seraph?

[singersigner]

Stop fishing for someone else to make a meta case for you.

Also, you say nobody's buying it, but clearly some people are giving SOME weight to what Seraphim is saying.

Powerrox needs to show up and claim so we can break this down.

1. Fair enough. I'm not looking for a case, though. Just wondering how offended I should be.

I know, I know; it's only a game.

2. Again, fair enough. I can understand people's reservations. I'm patient.

3. Do you have any theories as to what Powerrox might claim. I'm not expecting you to actually say what until he does. I'm just curious, as both Seraph and I both seem to have theories ourselves.

[singersigner]

Ummm... am I the only one who doesn't have the slightest trace of an idea as to what's going on?

Yes, you're confirmed town. It's ok. Seraph will have some explaining to do have Powerrox's claim.

<3

[singersigner]

BALLS. I had some crazy notion that Powerrox was gunna claim watcher, too, just as some stupid shinanigan to clear scum by lynching two of them since there'd be NO WAY all three remaining scum would claim the same role, unless just for lulz.

My second guess was some sort of cop role.

Processing.

[singersigner]

TBQH, Powerrox's adamant anger over the "trickery" thing screams scum that is butthurt over being outdone by a well-placed breadcrumb from town.

You find Seraph's breadcrumb awesome and well placed? He used the word watch.

First of all, it screams inexperienced who's pissed off there's no way to prove his claim.

Second of all, I agree with Thor. Seraph's breadcrumb doesn't prove anything. It's so easy to place

one

faulty-breadcrumb. I might be more inclined to believe someone who breadcrumbed results, too.

[singersigner]

We are lynching singersigner. End of discussion. I am looking forward to lynching scum for the first time all game.

That's a funny show you've got going on there.

I could definitely see foresee scum using today to pull out all the stops and get ONE town lynch.

I could definitely see foresee scum using today to pull out all the stops and get ONE town lynch.

I could definitely see foresee scum using today to pull out all the stops and get ONE town lynch.

I could definitely see foresee scum using today to pull out all the stops and get ONE town lynch.

I could definitely see foresee scum using today to pull out all the stops and get ONE town lynch.

No SHIT. Except town's going to stay true to their claims. Scum's going to gamble with a false-guilty just to fuck with everyone's head. All they need is ONE MORE MISLYNCH. And here's a gem from Reckamonic that sets up yet another potential mislynch:

IMO, we need to lynch between Powerrox & Seraphim today.

It's clearly between me and Seraphim. Why would you even consider Powerrox at this point?

[singersigner]

COUNTERCLAIMING WATCHERS.

WRONG ACCOUNT.

<3

[singersigner]

SS and Powerrox are clearly scum. I'm thinking Reck/Dram looks like the most likely potential buddy for how's evaluating the situation, not really committing to one side or the other.

Of course you're not committing. You're not willing to commit to claiming who your scum buddies are one way or another.

By the way, you can't say "clearly" anything. You have nothing.

I'm interested to hearing Powerrox's response to you calling him scum. Hmm...

[singersigner]

SS and Powerrox are clearly scum.

I have not read the thread but I nearly shat myself when I saw this. Counter claim, I'm a town watcher.

First night: CC didn't send in her action
Second Night: I watched Nacho, no result

Third Night: I tried to watch Reckamonic but my action failed

Claim: Jailkeeper

Targets
N1: Thor
N2: Reckamonic

N3: Lateralus

Here's the thing:
Powerrox confirms Lat's claim of his action failing.
Seraph claims I'm scum with JUST Powerrox, making his confirmation of Lat's failed night action false...which means we have no explanation of Lat's failed night action.
Meaning either I'm scum with BOTH of them, or NEITHER of them.
NOW...
Unless

all three

of the claimed PRs are scum together (which is highly doubtful considering how one-sided that makes scumVtown), we can pretty much confirm that Powerrox and Lat are telling the truth.
Making a singersigner/Powerrox scum-duo Seraph's illegitimate love child.

Now Seraph, I'd like to ask you to try again, who are my supposed scum buddies?

Preview Edit:

I have a result which is effectively a guilty on you. That's way fucking more than 'nothing'.

You CLAIM to have a result which is effectively a guilty on me. You have yet to prove that you're right other than LOLZGUYZSHEMUSTBESCUMZ.

[singersigner]

Powerrox, I think Seraph was trying to ask you to explain

why

you found each player scummy, not just the fact that you did. Speaking of which. Lat, why did you choose to watch Nacho?

[singersigner]

This game is giving me massive chest pains, and now we have two players who are going LA for a while...something needs to happen, and I'd prefer it be a Seraph lynch so we can move on into the night phase and just get on with finding his two scum buddies. The quicker we force scum to make a choice during the night, the quicker we can use that information to find the rest of scum.

Pleeeaaase vote Seraph-scumz now?

[singersigner]

Ok, so Nacho's scum with Seraph.

Damn...I was really hoping you were town, too...

By the way, Nacho, choosing watcher is EXACTLY what he needed to do, since that was the only way he could get around a counter cop claim. Tell me, two cops or two watchers? Which makes more sense/balances the town more?

Nice timing with the vote. Of course scum can't place a vote until they've gotten a legitimate townie to place one. Especially since if you really are town, you just lost the game. Congratulations.

Nicely timed vote, by the way. I'm sure scum did a real number in their QT last night figuring out all the semantics of how to pin that one last mislynch.

[singersigner]

EBWOP...k, so I apparently had the same thoughts in two different streams...the timing of the vote. There's NO WAY scum was going to place the first vote. The only way I wouldn't have believed it is if it was by Thor cuz he's done that shpeal before as scum.

THANK YOU LAT.

RECK. FUCK YEAH THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

Powerrox, go ahead and hammer, plzkthx.

[singersigner]

LAT I JUST POINTED OUT WHY NACHOMAMMA IS SCUM AND SERAPHIM IS HIS BUDDY HE'S TRYING TO HELP WIN THE GAME WITH

PLZ REVOTE

[singersigner]

LEAVE ME ALONE IM SO CONFUSED. NOW SOMEONE TELL IF THERES BEEN DUPLICATES OF THE SAME ROLES IN MINI NORMALS BEFORE.

SHUTTUP SCUM NACHO YOU'VE BEEN CAUGHT.

Lat, I doubled checked, and all of the roles claimed are completely legitimate for a mini normal...the only reason there would be more than one of the same role (WITHOUT THERE BEING A FALSE CLAIM), is it there was a mafia aligned role of one of them: see here for the rules/role setup.

[singersigner]

WAIT.
Powerrox refuses to hammer

Unvote; Vote: singersinger

WTF RECK THAT'S BECAUSE POWERROX IS TOWN AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING. HOW DOES THAT MAKE ME SCUM?

[singersigner]

I can has confused
drunky times

night night

PREDIT I KNOW THATS WHY I SAID I NEED TO BE DRUNK

YOU PUT YOUR VOTE BACK ON SERAPH IF YOU WANT ANY CHANCE TO WIN THIS GAME SO HELP ME GOD.

[singersigner]

no like im pretty sure i just hammered town
fucking a singersigner
you admit it right now
you fucking admittit

I AM NOT SCUM.

[singersigner]

I TOLD YOU WE SHOULD'VE WENT WITH SINGER

SHUTTUP SCUM YOU JUST HELPED TOWN GAIN A SLIVER OF HOPE TO WIN AND WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

[singersigner]

SINGER WHY ARE YOU POSTING IN CAPS WHAT THE FUCK

I CANNOT CONTROL THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE.


No but seriously I get excited what I think there's a chance. Shut up, don't ruin this for me.

[singersigner]

confirmed
lat was scum watcher

How was he confirmed scum watcher? The only reason I know that Lat has to be town aligned is because there's NO FUCKING WAY Seraph could've been a watcher with a result of me "visiting" Mothrax because I'M FUCKING VANILLA TOWNIE GAWDDAMNIT.

Preview Edit:

guys I think we just lynched scum.

in what might've been the best LyLo scumlynch ever.

STOP PRETENDING YOU'RE TOWN.

[singersigner]

Can someone please explain how all votes and discussion came up so suddenly during the last part of yesterday. Do it within the next 10 posts or I'll do what I said I planned to do in post 778

1. I don't know what you're asking us to do...all you have to do is read the thread.

2. Making threats probably isn't the smartest thing to do right now.

3. Why didn't you use your jailkeep power on Lateralus last night when he was basically a confirmed watcher by the end of the day? Who

did

you jailkeep last night?

[singersigner]

I don't know who to think is scum anymore, other than to know that singer is 100% town. Which means, out of the final three, there is two scum, making our odds of lynching correctly pretty damn high. ALL of them are scummy, though. Before today I would've just been like, "Thor & Nacho, gg"... but a JAILKEEPER WHO DOESN'T PROTECT FUCKING CONFIRMED TOWN is pinging my scumdar A LOT.

Powerrox isn't scum. If he were, he and Seraph would've collaborated their stories better to ensure that they didn't target the same person N1. Seraph would've been able to say "action failed" or whatever Lat said about Nacho. Unless they are

that

dumb...

[singersigner]

I'm still in V/LA hell, so if I'm wrong on any of the above conclusions I'm going to vote wrong and help town lose sooner or later anyway.

So why wait. If I am wrong and this leads to a quicklynch I'll accept the hatred that will be my due, but I don't see three weeks of talking changing my mind on any of the above conclusions.

Vote: Nachomama

More obvious one.
Reck - why so serious to try to get PR back in suspect pool?

I've only ever seen you pull this antic as scum. Can you give me an example where you bite the bullet and place the first vote in LyLo as town?

[singersigner]

Reck, if you are town, the only reason for you to NOT be voting for either Thor or Nacho right now is if you genuinely thought one of PR or me was scum as well.

Like Thor's pointed out, you should seriously consider making a case against someone, or by PoE, you can't be wrong voting Nacho

if you are town

.

Nacho, same goes for you. The only reason you guys have to be hesitant about voting right now is if you legitimately thought Seraph was scum bussing scum yesterday, OR Powerrox messed up with his claim.

The only thing that's making me hesitant about Thor right now is the fact that he keeps on planting seeds of doubt about PR. We already know he's not the most experienced player, and the role isn't as "obvious" to play as you might think. Oh, and the fact that if I were scum, I would've personally taken down the most experienced and threatening players, so Thor and Reck most certainly would not still be alive.


Powerrox, you should still contribute/give your thoughts, but don't vote yet. Can you explain why you jailkept Thor as opposed to using it as a protective role to guard Lat?

[singersigner]

lol. Something like that. Reck just seems fairly convinced that PR must be scum for some reason, and he hasn't been afraid to say so. You've managed to say, "yes he's town and I know that, but *speculation*speculation*speculation*." And you're right, I shouldn't have said "keeps planting seeds of doubt." In my head I think it just came across as you seeming so sure Nacho's scum, but if you're really town, you'd almost be convinced of who is actually scum, unless you really had doubts about either me or PR.

So why did you go for Nacho instead of Reck? Because by your logic, both of them should be scum.

WAIT.

That means Thor is confirmed town, no?

If Thor is confirmed town then you're confirmed scum, so...

[singersigner]

So why did you go for Nacho instead of Reck? Because by your logic, both of them should be scum.

And if I'd voted Reck you could reverse the question and still ask me it

Basically I went for Nacho because he was the more obvious feeling of the two and I suspected it'd be easier to get support for that lynch from the players who didn't have the advantage I did.

Yes I would, in fact. I'm wondering, if you're telling the truth and you are the third town left in this game, why you would want to go up against Reck tomorrow instead of Nacho.

Why did you think it would be so easy to get support without a case when we're clearly in between a rock and a hard place trying to win this game after 3 mistakes in a row?

What I'm wondering is why Recka has no comments other than "fuck it, let's do this." Are you even going to try, scum or not?

[singersigner]

multiple synchronized real life issues, please standby.

I feel.

[singersigner]

*facepalm*

Powerrox, being the only two confirmed townies, one of us has to vote in order for a lynch to go through. The other two scum can gang up on the one town that's left all they want, but the minute you vote wrong, they win.

That's why YOU don't vote yet, mkay?

[singersigner]

Moving on;

Nacho's singer push looks suspect.
Reck's super excited 'look at Seraph's awesome breadcrumb of using the word watch once' looks suspect. (he was also trying to get PR lynched at this point for some reason which is

Singer is town unless that was the most clever bus ever.
PR is town because his role makes sense at this stage.
I'm town.
Two scum left - two players left.
I'm still in V/LA hell, so if I'm wrong on any of the above conclusions I'm going to vote wrong and help town lose sooner or later anyway. So why wait. If I am wrong and this leads to a quicklynch I'll accept the hatred that will be my due, but I don't see three weeks of talking changing my mind on any of the above conclusions.

Vote: Nachomama

?

Ok, Thor, you're right. You made some notion other than PoE with Nacho...and honestly, I would've been very keen on voting for Nacho today if it hadn't been for your first vote after having just seen you do it in our last game together.

I really want to believe you, but you understand my reservations, right?

[singersigner]

I would also advise you to chat with PR more, if you believe him as confirmed town the two of you should really talk over your concerns/thoughts about the situation and try to come to a mutual decision.

I KNOW. Now I know how Andrius felt in Flay's Succession Mafia when we were two of the three townies yet to be recruited...I was useless in the end.

I'd LOVE some more PR input. We basically have to get everything out on the table now since, one of us will have to make the decision of who to chose tomorrow. All that he didn't get from yesterday is all fine and good because it consisted of one page of blah. But other than that...he's been around the rest of the game...

I'd also like Recka to get back and address some of the concerns directed at him. As well as Nacho...I know they're both V/LA at the moment, but it's almost like they've given up fighting after the loss of Seraph.

[singersigner]

lol, PR, calm down.

1. I'd like your input on the other three, and who you think is scum based on their play in the game.

2. I'm saying it's not really hard to figure out that the last page before D4 ended was kind of a load of crap from Seraph, with the intermittent posts of Nacho and Reck putting on really stupid hats and following him. How do you feel about their play yesterday. Of the three left, who do you think is scum?

NACHO GET THE FUCK BACK HERE AND DEFEND THYSELF.

[singersigner]

quick lynch thor tomorrow plz. town win 2011

if you're town then this is the way we're going with this

Reck, why are you voting Nacho instead of Thor since Lat flipped town?

NACHO WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU VOTING EVEN WHILE V/LA DAMNIT HAVE YOU GIVEN UP AS SCUM.

[singersigner]

so I'd say that Reckamonic is the only possible buddy for me.

K.

...

WHAT.

[singersigner]

I wasn't saying it was a "slip" really. I'm just curious as to why he's still trying to pretend he's town. I honestly expected him to vote Thor.

POWERROX WHY DIDN'T YOU USE YOUR JAILKEEP AS A PROTECTIVE ROLE FOR LATERALUS. UUUUUUHHHHHHHH.


Ok, lemme gather my thoughts now. I think I'm gunna hammer, but I need a little bit more time to figure out what's potentially gunna happen tomorrow if we're right...

[singersigner]

Thor, in this situation, that is implying that you sent in the kill. It could've been your other scum buddy.

[singersigner]

Sweet misrep.
We never had a PR is scum theory.

You definitely did. I even asked you about it. There was no response.

[singersigner]

...Nacho, that was a horrible attempt at scum trying to use town logic to appear town.
NOBODY ELSE vote for us, or Nacho's buddy (Thor) will likely switch wagons and hammer us.

Kinda genius strategy, actually.

Another question is why didn't you vote earlier? After Thor voted, it kind of seemed like voting was fair game, considering I had made a big deal about powerrox NOT voting so hammering could be done. Were you trying to protect your scum team?

WHAT I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT NOW IS WHICH ONE OF YOU AND THOR IS NACHO'S BUDDY because I'ma be really pissed off if you, Seraph, AND Thor all started off as a scum team. That's just unfair.

Right now I'm trying to do VC analysis, but I'm afraid I'm really bad at it, as I've never analyzed VCs myself before. I've only ever trusted the couple I've ever seen.

ALL THREE OF YOU BEING THE FORERUNNERS OF AGAR'S LYNCH IS REALLY FUCKING WITH MY HEAD RIGHT NOW.

[singersigner]

Wait before hammering, just ask me one question:

What's wrong with my reasoning? Do you honestly think Thor and I are scum together?

Look, all three of you are going to have the same reasoning at this point (PoE), unless you can point me to other instances in the game

other than yesterday

where you can prove your innocence.

And when did I say I thought you and Thor were scum together?

[singersigner]

And yeah, I'd rather Reckamonic lynched today because a Reckscumflip incriminates Thor a hell of a lot more than it does me, and you're having trouble reading good old Thor. And luckily, Reck is fairly obvious scum.

Ok, lol, explain this to me again: you want to lynch Reck because it incriminates Thor more than you?

1. How exactly is it incriminating of Thor more than you?
2. How the FUCK does that make you look any better?

V/LA lasting longer than expected, but I will make a post in here tomorrow.

Fuck this shit.

Vote: Nacho

If we're wrong, gg scum.

multiple synchronized real life issues, please standby.

So, let me get this straight: He votes me in LyLo because he's angry at my site-wide V/LA, then promptly goes V/LA himself? This is hypocritical, and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever from a town perspective.

He wasn't angry at you specifically, he was just frustrated at the lack of participation. And you're the one saying he's mad at your lylo. Personally, I think he was just impatient, but that's just me. You trying to pin a case on him isn't helping.

And let's not forget this wonderful contradiction:

It's possible for us to pull through with a scumlynch here, but we could literally see anybody being scum EXCEPT for Nachomamma8.

LAT I JUST POINTED OUT WHY NACHOMAMMA IS SCUM AND SERAPHIM IS HIS BUDDY HE'S TRYING TO HELP WIN THE GAME WITH

PLZ REVOTE

This is a misrep, too, considering those quotes were time-stamped at completely different times in the game. The second was AFTER Recka had pointed out your scumslip...or are you so conveniently forgetting that one?

[singersigner]

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

Lat, go on and hammer.

Reck, the scumslip doesn't make sense. Scumteams don't find people scummy.

I don't really consider this a legitimate response. You didn't even explain why you said it. And scumteams talk about players they find scummy all the time, aka who to go after during the day, so...


Thor, would you be willing to move to a Recka-lynch?

[singersigner]

And, look! You haven't been quicklynched yet! Clearly, if the votes were on a townie, then the lynch would've gone through much quicker (unless his scumbuddy is already on the wagon... OH HAI THOR).

Reck, are you [both] retarded?? The ONLY way a quick lynch would've been even possible, let alone gone through sooner was if Powerrox and I were to have voted, which I made clear was not going to happen until some answers were to be had.

[singersigner]

Thor, can you send me an example or two of a QT where you've offered to send in the kill as scum?

[singersigner]

GAWDDAMNIT POWERROX WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT VOTING YOU TAKE THAT BACK RIGHT NOW.

[singersigner]

Yeah...I'm working on votecount analysis right now.

I feel as though you are correct...I just want to make sure.

...

Sorry I yelled at you. <3

[singersigner]

Actually powerrox, I'm gunna hammer Nacho, and Reck can be tomorrow, k?

[singersigner]

VOTE: Nachomamma8



I hope you guys know I'm having serious chest pains over this.

[singersigner]

Vote: Thor665

We fucking saw this coming before night even started. As soon as Powerrox publicly announced his night action like that, we KNEW there wouldn't be a kill. WHY WOULD THOR KILL IN ENDGAME WHEN HE KNOWS IT WOULD CONFIRM HIM AS SCUM?

Thor purposely no-killed in order to frame us, and Powerrox is bad bad bad for telegraphing his move like that. Had he stayed quiet, Thor would've had to guess at who Powerrox was jailkeeping.

RECKA, EVEN I KNEW THERE WASN'T GOING TO BE A KILL LAST NIGHT NO MATTER WHAT POWERROX DID BECAUSE NEITHER OF YOU ARE THAT DUMB.

Honestly, I'm glad Powerrox publicized it like that because I KNEW you were going to react like this, too. And since like you said, it doesn't really matter, since he's a jailkeeper anyway.

Reck, the only way scum had a chance of winning after the flip yesterday, was to attempt to kill last night anyway. Once Nacho flipped scum, town won. With the jailkeeper alive, it doesn't really matter if we mislynch now, does it.

VOTE: Reckamonic

POWERROX I'M GIVING YOU THE PLEASURE OF HAMMERING RECK.

Even if we're wrong,

YOU KNOW YOU

HAVE

TO JAILKEEP THOR

and we'll have it in the bag tomorrow. <3

That's all you have to do, Powerrox...all you have to do.

[singersigner]

Ninja Edit:

Thor, I love you, and I'm so sorry I doubted you. <3

[singersigner]

Meh, if she's wrong than either her or PR are the scum - in which case you'd be an equally awful player wanting to lynch me so...

If PR is scum I'm calling foul on the balance of this game though.
And if singer is scum I'm amazed she opted to play the long game and not hammer Reck when she had the chance yesterday.

lol, Thor, you did the SAME THING in our scum game when you didn't hammer...which got you killed. *not bitter*

Also, yeah, if PR is scum...IMBALANCE.

Though...he would've played a heck of an "ignorant town" game...lol.

Also...
RECK WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THAT AWAY FROM POWERROX YOU KNEW HE WANTED TO HAMMER YOU. YOU'RE JUST A BIG MEANIE SCUM.

And why do you and Seraph have to be all meanscum like that. Totally uncalled for. Especially if you really are town and you know we can win the game for you anyway. Yeesh, being all butthurt over being lynched as opposed to being happy town's winning...clearly not a very good sport.

[singersigner]

Oh yeah...I guess that's true...but seriously...that was a stupid ending, lol. Effing Shotty...

[singersigner]

Fuck you Reckamonic and Seraph. You guys are jerks.
<3

But, wholey hell that was a good game...

[singersigner]

LAT! I'm really sorry you got all jumbled up in my mess with CarrotCake. I swear I thought he was just misrepping me left and right. I think the three of us fell victim to tunnelvision because "they don't agree with us...they MUST be scum!"

In any case, lesson learned. I'll try to avoid that as much as possible from now on.

And Nacho...good game to you, too. Seriously, if it weren't for Reck pointing out the scumslip and you "almost agreeing" with Seraph that I must be scum, I would still think you were town. You were making me think that it was Thor for a while...and like I said, that's just unfair.

And yes,

DemonHybrid, scum QT please??

[singersigner]

I agree with Thor.

Also Lat, it was a little sub-optimal for PR to not have jailblocked you, but in the end it worked out, because we still essentially had two "confirmed" townies.

[singersigner]

I just read the afterlife QT...I agree with AGar; totally got it from him. lol.

and I dunno...I'm still learning. I know this wasn't exactly my best game, but I'm trying to learn how to get out of the habit of tunnel-vision.

And you guys don't even know the chest pains I had because after not being helpful AT ALL at the beginning, I was stressing waaay too much over trying to win it for town (not like it was all me by any means). I was really trying to fix my mistakes, but stupid Seraph had to be all mean like that. I nearly shat myself when I saw his claim, lol.

[singersigner]

Well, I just meant more or less in the squabble between you/your predecessor and me. I get a little too defensive as town, I think. Again, something I'm working on, haha.