Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Seraphim]

I'm working on a post as we speak.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: While we can buy the fact that sims was, as you put it, "tin-foil hatty", we can easily chalk that up to newbish nerves, or overeagerness, or something to that effect. Meanwhile, AGar has been around long enough to know better than that. His play here compared to his play in Reck's Lost games (which dram played in) are completely different. Something is definitely off.

Well, iam's play will show us who's right and whose wrong, I guess. As for the whole AGar thing... Honey, you're preaching to the choir. I pegged him as scum before you did...

PS, we're not liking how you tell Lateralus that sims, AGar, and singersinger are the scumteam… but then tell him, in the very same post, to 'watch Reckamonic closely'. Reasons?

No one is 100% accurate all the time, right? And would you have minded if I told him to watch Powerrox closely instead of you?

FoS: mothrax

Mothrax and PR are definitely town.

>.>

[Seraphim]

First of all, I dunno how hot I am with two replacements showing up and kicking the AGar wagon into high gear, especially when one of them was/is my number one suspect. So we'll see about that.

That last exchange between Lateralus22 and singersigner left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I get the feeling there's a little OMGUS in that read. It's ok, though, I forgive you.

This is pretty fucking terrible, not going to lie. At least it's not your basis for calling him scum because that would be even worse.

This is just scum asking the other townies to say, hey, who do you already think is scum so when I read through the thread, I can have a little confirmation bias and already pin these people as scum.

derp

If I still put faith into the bussing/distancing tell, I would put money on singersigner and Lateralus being scum together because holy shit they put together some terrible cases on each other.

I understand continuing to vote a player because you hated their predecessor's play but I don't think Lateralus has done anything terribly scummy yet besides pull a shit case. Wanting to win arguments =/= scum BTW. However, that isn't to say that singer might not be scum. I just don't know how much that is because of Later's case but more because singer's play, since she lost her one target, has completely gone down the crapper.

Later's quick switch to AGar is meh. I don't think it's scummy but I don't like it especially given that I thought that he was gaining some serious momentum on SS, causing me to question the motivation behind it especially since it really looks like an attempt to escape a lynch. Of course, I can't completely blame him either.

I'm going to be evaluating Later later(ha!)...I have some questions for him below. I'm not moving my vote in the meantime because the AGar wagon has enough support for the moment. I might have some thoughts on him later but I'm not giving up on scumCC/scumLateralus until I see reason to do otherwise.

I didn't think sims was scum and I don't think IAUN is either at first glance but his vote to tip the scales against a Later lynch makes me uneasy. Of course, I trust my initial read on the previous player and my uneasiness only stems from my sureness that Later's slot is scum.

Powerrox isn't scum(RECK/DRAM). Enough said on that front.

Now.

Later...can I call you Later?

Some questions, for you.

First of all, your player slot was one of the few players off of the Guderian wagon. If you're not scum, which of the other players not on the wagon would you peg most likely to be scum?

Second, how valid do you think my case on the player you replaced is? I'm not asking you to defend or attack it, it's unfortunately mostly useless now.

Third, what you do if I changed my vote to singersigner? What if some other player moved his vote to singersigner?

Fourth, finally, and most importantly, what is love?

[Lateralus22]

Wanting to win arguments =/= scum BTW.

I don't get what's wrong with my case. I'm saying she's only trying to win arguments as opposed to legitimately read her targets, AKA she doesn't believe what she's spewing, she just wants to push through. Let me put it this way… when you're town do you

only

come in to debate with people and argue them to death?

First of all, your player slot was one of the few players off of the Guderian wagon. If you're not scum, which of the other players not on the wagon would you peg most likely to be scum?

I think all the scum are on the Gud wagon, regardless I'd probably say mothrox based on PoE. But even then I just think he's a moron and that he his feelings for Agar are genuine.

Second, how valid do you think my case on the player you replaced is? I'm not asking you to defend or attack it, it's unfortunately mostly useless now.

It was a really boring argument, I skimmed the first time around. I didn't even remember much so I had to go reread it.

-Wagon analysis part is bad.
-Saying she was avoiding the Gud issue is wrong when that's what she spent her time talking all about.
-CC got pretty emotional concerning Gud, I don't agree with her attacks on you since they're pretty bad too. This stems from the theory shit about whether keeping the SK alive is good or not.
-when we got to the semantics shit and the ass kissing I figure you win that part since I don't even know what she's talking about there.

Third, what you do if I changed my vote to singersigner? What if some other player moved his vote to singersigner?

idk. Probobly blink, wonder why exactly your doing so and question you about it or something. I'd take off if I thought SS wagon was actually going to go through.

Fourth, finally, and most importantly, what is love?

Idk man, I don't do philosophy.

[Seraphim]

I'm saying she's only trying to win arguments as opposed to legitimately read her targets

The problem with this "symptom" is that you haven't presented proof that she's not actually getting reads from her play, only postulated that this might be the case. If she is just attacking players for sake of attacking them, that would be something but I don't see any evidence of this. This is why your case is ultimately bad. Not scummy, just wrong. It doesn't look like a crap attack on purpose, I think.

If that makes sense at all which it probably doesn't.

when you're town do you only come in to debate with people and argue them to death?

Sometimes I find that's the only way I can engage myself in the game and not lurk, debate.

I think all the scum are on the Gud wagon, regardless I'd probably say mothrox based on PoE. But even then I just think he's a moron and that he his feelings for Agar are genuine.

This is an interesting perspective given that I'm fairly sure one scum dodged the wagon because of how dodgy it was(yes, I'll be the first to admit that the wagon was dodgy... necessary but dodgy). Besides AGar and singersigner, who is the last scum if I may inquire?

Concerning my case...I wasn't expecting that which is a good for you and bad for me. However,

Saying she was avoiding the Gud issue is wrong when that's what she spent her time talking all about.

Lemme rephrase this point...she didn't give any compelling arguments for why his motives were town which I found bad for someone who continued to actively push against it.

idk. Probobly blink, wonder why exactly your doing so and question you about it or something. I'd take off if I thought SS wagon was actually going to go through.

This vote is presumably backed up with reasoning. Mine giving this question another go?

Idk man, I don't do philosophy.

WRONG. BABY DUN HURT ME. DUN HURT ME. NO MORE.

[Nachomamma8]

Love is the emotion that flowed through my veins when Seraphim finally posted.

[Nachomamma8]

Now onto Day 2, her vote is awful. Exactly man, who does try to make an alliance with an Sk? You're berated her for being unorthodox, what is the scum motivation for this? Sure you did explain later but what you're saying is fundamentally wrong. You're using words like "unintelligible" and "unexperienced as a method to discredit here. But here's the thing, CC joined this forum in 2007 so that shows can't even be bothered to get your facts right.

I love this line, Just because you claim something is omgus, doesn't make it true. This is exactly what you just did to me right here. You immediately attacked me and accused me of OMGUS as a method to discredit to, the hostility you've shown reads more as defensive scum because you don't have some giant case against CC, you weren't even confident enough in your vote to keep it over your V/LA with the whole my vote is useless over V/LA!" scene. Look at the last line of the last link in this post, this is a baseless attack. This is affront to discredit me when I was obviously just trying to get reads, communicating directly with people helps immensely with that.

Is it just me, or is everyone missing this chunk of the case?

And no one's commented on SS's discrediting tactics...

[Nachomamma8]

Hi, it doesn't appear to have been announced by the mod yet, but I'm replacing sims. I've got my role PM and everything, so I assume it's OK for me to start posting.

Might not have time for full and proper analysis until tomorrow, but basically, hell no to Carrotcake lynch. Yesterday, someone was lynched for refusing to conform to site norms, and also for being kind of a dick. If you don't believe that scum had any involvement in this, then I don't even know what to say. Of course they did.

So, today, we have Carrotcake, one of the few people who was not on the Guderian lynch, acting like kind of a dick, refusing to conform to site norms, and hey look, a whole bunch of the same people who mislynched Guderian are now trying to lynch him too. That sure sounds like a winning strategy to me.

VOTE: AGar

I'd also happily vote for Seraphim or POWER OX, who were also on both Guderian and Carrotcake wagons, but it's clearly a two horse race today, so the decision is obvious.

Seraphim how can you get a town read off this?

[Lateralus22]

If she is just attacking players for sake of attacking them, that would be something but I don't see any evidence of this. This is why your case is ultimately bad. Not scummy, just wrong.

I suggest going through her crap once again. She constantly tries to twist around for the sake of and always discredits her targets. There is no townie paranoia of

oh hey maybe I'm wrong, or these new posts make me feel differently

or anything like that, and when she dropped the case that seriously shows she didn't believe her crap. I don't know how to put it any clearer.

Sometimes I find that's the only way I can engage myself in the game and not lurk, debate.

But those debates come with the purpose of actually figuring out someone's alignments.

Lemme rephrase this point...she didn't give any compelling arguments for why his motives were town which I found bad for someone who continued to actively push against it.

Don't remember the exact details, I figured she had a really strong belief in Gud not being scum and based her attacks around that. She did muse a bit of logic concerning this.

This vote is presumably backed up with reasoning. Mine giving this question another go?

Consider the reasoning, probably switch to SS since there's some momentum and continue our debate even more along with continuing to try and read her and get to completely explain her reads. If the wagon still doesn't take off I'd hop back to Agar.

[Lateralus22]

This is an interesting perspective given that I'm fairly sure one scum dodged the wagon because of how dodgy it was(yes, I'll be the first to admit that the wagon was dodgy... necessary but dodgy). Besides AGar and singersigner, who is the last scum if I may inquire?

Meh. Again that isn't always the case, trying to start a counter wagon isn't going to make people love you or praise you for being right. They'll only get ticked off you mention this and this seriously puts CC under the spot light and this wouldn't even raise her credibility since the I doubt the flip would make the masses suddenly change their theory beliefs.

Idk who the last scum is. If it's either of Reck/IAU then one of them is bussing... but I can't tell which. Reck has solid points and he reads pretty damn town so I don't think it's him. IAU bussing straight off the bat is kinda weird, I dunno if he's the busser type. I've played with him before and I know his view of unorthadox play is consistent with his town game though.

Pr is playing to his town meta.
moth is meh.
Thor scum would have me perplexed but I'm not even going to worry about that now when his play has been solid town.
Nacho is like, a super town read.
Idk about you man, the questioning seems pretty pro town since it makes me think you do care about alignment but I don't think my case is as weak as you're saying.

[Powerrox93]

Everyone who hasn't said so:

Singer-scum, Yay or Nay?

Nay, but she isn't confirmed-town either from my eyes

Moth/Sera/powerrox:

Lat vs Agar for the lynch. Take a pick.

Lat, but I could accept an AGar lynch

[mothrax]

Actually you know what, screw this. I'm drunk and my gut says

unvote; vote singersinger

If she flips scum I would happily back an agar lynch, if not I still think he is town.

[Reckamonic]

Your gut says "Let's vote who my previous vote is voting"?
That's... worrisome.

Go sober up.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote Count

Day 2 Vote Count (#7)

AGar

- 5 (Thor665, Nachomamma8, Reckamonic, Lateralus22, iamausername)

Lateralus22

- 3 (Seraphim, AGar, singersigner)

singersigner

- 1 (mothrax)

Not Voting

- 1 (Powerrox93)

With 10 players, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 for a No Lynch. Deadline is scheduled for January 8th, 2011 at 2:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.

Thor665 is V/LA until Friday, January 7th. Feel better.

You have 5 days to lynch.

[/area]

Spoiler: Living Players

1. singersigner
2. Nachomamma8

ConfidAnon

3. AGar
4. Powerrox93
7. iamausername

sims5487

8. Lateralus22

Carrotcake

9. Seraphim **
10. mothrax

Blood Queen

11. Thor665 *
12. Reckamonic

Spoiler: Dead Players

Bradley,

NPC Butler

, throat sliced Day 1!
Guderian,

Vanilla Townie

, stabbed and left for dead Day 1!
Rhinox,

Vanilla Townie

, eviscerated Night 1!

Spoiler: Modkilled Players

None

[mothrax]

Sobered up (mostly) and still ok with a singerwagon. More ok than the two main wagons. And reck/dram, scum don't ever bus do they?

[Reckamonic]

bussing implies Later is scum, and he's a bigger wagon.
You really ARE basing your biggest scumread on your second biggest scumread...

[mothrax]

There seem to be plenty of people who would support a singer lynch. No one was making the move. The largest wagon is agar and I am not convinced he is scum, However with a singer scumflip I would support an AGar lynch. It made sense to take a leap of faith.

[Reckamonic]

What happens if Singer flips town though, scumread wise?

[mothrax]

Then I still think agar is town and I reread

[Lateralus22]

Unvote;
Vote: singer

That was weird. mothrox can you articulate what made you change your mind? Is ANYONE else interested in switching? I don't get the feeling anyone else wants to so some support would be cool.

Agar and singer should come back. Wish Sera could come on again so we can finish up our Q&A session.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd switch over for a singer wagon, but I strongly prefer the AGar wagon.

[Seraphim]

I don't have time to make a full post but.

Unvote

This is clearly going nowhere.

[Powerrox93]

Is ANYONE else interested in switching?

No, I'm not. I'm either gonna vote for you or AGar

@mothrax: Why all then singersinger attention all in a sudden?

[singersigner]

Blah. Crapattack loss of internet phone post. Catching up soon, loves.

[AGar]

I've been asked to claim? Piss off.

The wagon isn't on me? And singer is under pressure now?

Welp, I should read her, because I'm obviously missing something, although I'd much rather attack Lat and see him lynched.

Reckamonic - You're right, I'm not refuting your case. I'm not inclined to bother.

As for iamausername - The difference between me on Lat and Lat on me is thus - my attack on Lat (then Carrotcake) was based off an actual suspicion, and I had really no pressure on me or motivation to even out a counterwagon of any sort. Lat comes in, votes one way, then after realizing pressure isn't getting off of him he votes on the next largest wagon. It looks like 100% panic.