Mini 1041: Wheel of Fortune Mafia (Game over!)

[Xite91]

Vote Reck

for being a hydra

[Xite91]

Happy scumday grumpy, why won't you random vote?

[Xite91]

Happy scumday grumpy, why won't you random vote?

Two things:

First, it's Gu

pp

y, not Gru

mp

y.

Second, I never random vote. This is how I get discussion started.

but i wanted to call you grumpy because you seem grumpy.
Also, @Whoever asked: It's not important, but he said specifically that he was not going to random vote. It made it seem like he wanted someone to ask, so I bit. And guess what? It worked, because it seems like he's trying to play off as super-townie right at the beginning. This is something to look at later.
As for discussion, I'm one of those old school players that does things like this;

Unvote, Vote: Charlie

Bandwagon gogogo!!!

Also, as for votes vs vote tags, I will never use vote tags, get over it.

[Xite91]

On #44
Showing intent to vote FakeGod, but don't know where the votes are at
**Note: This has nothing to do with flavor**

[Xite91]

@Oman - Which is why I don't use it.

Asperger's actually.

Hey, me too!

Doesn't this kind of confirm what he was saying?



Fakegod is scum based off of gut. Give him a chance to post another 3-5 posts and I will have a case on him. Promise

[Xite91]

I don't know much, but I know I love you.

Oman... uh... breadcrumb or random noise?

It's mod-confirmed that Charlie and I are both town.

May I leave it that?

I would like charlie to answer whether it's mod-confirmed that you're town.
I have a guess as to what's going on, but I need charlie's answer first

It's mod-confirmed that Charlie and I are both town.

May I leave it that?

More to the point, I have issue with this.

when you say mod confirmed...is it something that you ask him or was it in your PM?

I was able to figure it out from my role PM, thank you very much.

Did it specifically say so, or did you just "figure it out"

[Xite91]

@Oman, I think I get your claimed breadcrumb

[Xite91]

First, I'm going to have to read a few games from Charlie because he's playing completely different than what I'm used to from him. (Mass posts wtf???) I'll have to see what his town/scum/third party metas are before I say if it's scum or town oriented or anything at all.
Second, how am I apprehensive?
Third, Okay I'm pretty sure I know what's going on, and if that's it, I can almost guarantee they're both town. Hey Charlie do you have a qt with FG?
Last,

Unvote, Vote Pieman

Not liking him so much yet. Not sure if it's the dumb blonde vibe I'm getting from him (sorry blondes) or if he's just plain scummy, but we'll see as we go along

[Xite91]

Okay, brian? Let him answer my question, then I can answer yours, because I'm fairly certain what's going on and it's an easy deduction to make if you look at their posts.

[Xite91]

1) I recommend that you don't because of three reasons: A game with 12 players is easier to read than a Large Game. Meta IMHO is useless or at least not worth the effort. I have never played a 3rd party before.
As an addendum, I mass posted because I had a lot of thing to respond to and I have to use information from the reactions gained.
2) It was a relative analysis: comparing you with others.
For the record, I label those as inquisitive as more pro-town and those apprehensive as prob scum. No hard feelings.
3) Well good for you then? I don't think I have to answer the second part for the answer is obvious.

1) I just have to see how your posts go and what you play, not so much the content of it (unless there's a lot of randomness between the two)
2) No hard feelings just yet
3) Yes or no, it's a simple question, and if I'm asking for the answer, then there's obviously a few different ideas I have where it's not so much "obvious" whether or not you have a qt. This is important for me to confirm whether you two are actually town, or if you're reading too much into your role PM's. Therefore, yes, or no, or that fake god gets it

[Xite91]

First, I'm going to read through a good amount of your recent games, since it'll be quick. But probably later, just spread the news that I'm having a baby and now everyone wants to talk about it

Second, you really aught to just answer, then I PROMISE right afterward I will tell you why I asked

[Xite91]

So that was the big news! Congrats! I kinda guessed it (from your signature, among other things) but it was none of my business.

Anyway, OK. I'll answer this one: The answer is no.

Lol thanks, and it turns out Kevin didn't even know what it was my mom told him there was news but not what. I hate him[/side note]

Okay, I figured.
In which case, did you know that Fakegod was the other wedge?

[Xite91]

I meant all my questions, but okay, I'll give you my ideas on what's going on.
I have seen something like this before, which is the only real reason I can deduce this
You two got role pms stating that the other wedge was town, but not who the other wedge was. Therefore, the only way to find out the other confirmed townie is is to out your role, which makes you both confirmed town, but also makes you the choice nk's
So the question is, claim and out both you and the other as confirmed town, or keep it to yourself, but never find the other pro-town player.
Sadly, though, I don't remember what they used for a role-name

Did I get that right?

[Xite91]

I'm not sure how it's unhelpful. I cleared things up for the town so we can move on.

[Xite91]

@everyone else, not sure why no one is commenting on the fact that neither Charlie nor fakegod will comment on their alignment, it is an easy question....I am not asking anything about their role or mechanics...just their fucking alignment name...

they want us to believe that they can confirm each other, but neither can tell us what the PM says the other is..

now which is it guys,

are you two,

TOWN
TOWNIE (like the sample PM)
PRO-TOWN
OR SOMETHING ELSE?

which is it?

They don't exactly need to answer anymore because it's practically cleared up. Read and the answer shall be given to you.

[Xite91]

It's not so much the quote of him saying "this is what it said" it's my speculation and his confirmation of the speculation. That confirms they're both town based on the role itself. That's how they were able to "figure it out based on the pm" even thought it didn't state that Fakegod or Charlie were town specifically.

[Xite91]

Hhey, ckd?
Quit repeating the same thing over and over again?
It's getting annoying and clogging the thread. I'm to the point where I just want to lynch you so you'll shut up. The answer should be obvious by now.
I feel like you're trying to keep us on this topic to keep us from scumhunting.

[Xite91]

Hhey, ckd?
Quit repeating the same thing over and over again?
It's getting annoying and clogging the thread. I'm to the point where I just want to lynch you so you'll shut up. The answer should be obvious by now.
I feel like you're trying to keep us on this topic to keep us from scumhunting.

noted, then do it, or back off, you cant bully me.

AtE noted. I don't usually go for policy lynches unless it's the day before LyLo.

LOL, if it is so little, then why not answer the question?

I think you are fake claiming, i have STRONG reason to believe you are lying...sooo...

Where'd this go?

hi everybody... I replace Me=Weird.
Charlie and FakeGods actions look genuine. I think we should trust them for now.
I am still curious what CKD is up to... we'll see. I do not understand FG's problem with answering his questions though.

for now I am just going to do this:
VOTE: PieMan

I want you (PieMan) to tell me why you think I am voting you. let's see if you can guess.

Sup tasky? Let's try not to replace outta this one, k?
Also, I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on this post. Blatant wagoning much?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2490919
p113 He expresses the knowledge that Xite is town.

That is what, im referring to.

Wha??

[Xite91]

Also, I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on this post. Blatant wagoning much?

wait. what exactly are you labeling as bullshit? and why aren't you voting me for it?
yeah, I am wagoning. problem with it? I like the PieMan-wagon.

Not voting because I've seen it before, but still not sure whether you were town or scum
(As far as we will go with this one )

Also, I wish you would make some sort of case on someone, I love reading your cases

lol, why is not WHEN you are killed, IF you flip scum....

funny how you flip the words in order as you need.

bullshit.

read the post again
...

Unvote, Vote CKD

suddenly I'm less inclined to want pieman lynched
next I'm going to see who was on it, but that will probably be later (i has do laundry)

[Xite91]

lol, why am I getting a vote?

Er, close enough, Xite91. I must say your actions are really unhelpful to town i.e. anti-town BUT If and when you flip town I nominate you as VI.

but Pie wants to say he is saying this.

If you are killed, and when you flip town

.

I am calling him out on this with

lol, why is not WHEN you are killed, IF you flip scum....

funny how you flip the words in order as you need.

bullshit.

why is that scummy?

It's scummy because "if and when" makes it sound like charlie thinks I'm town, but he just said I was anti-town (which pieman probably took as scum, but with charlie I know better )
That in conjunction with the fact that you did something similar very recently where you went all over the place with something small (your little question you kept asking and asking) it looks like you're trying hard to push a case that is not there and derail the town from scumhunting, therefore you seem like you are scum IMO.

[Xite91]

your statement makes no since....

pie was the one you was attacking charlie for the "if and when"..I am attacking pie for his scummy manuver of the words.

and was that anywhere close to what I was asking fakegod and charlie?...what case did I push against them?

sorry I'm half asleep and sick, let me see if I can make sense of what I'm trying to say for you;
here, I'll just do an ISO case on you, k?

1) What did you think he was saying? Or is this just a way to look town?
4) 1 and 2 are the same question worded 2 different ways
6) starting a count of how many times you ask, so this is for all intents and purposes the 2nd time
7) 3
9) 4
10) 5
11) 6 - and you're encouraging tunneling
13) 7
14) guess what? I voted you. And I'm prolly gonna get you lynched. Can I bully you now?
15) not exactly 8, but still not dropping it
16) I'll consider this and 15 = to one, so 8
17) 9
18) actually, it was 9
19) So what were those reasons? You never told me what they were
20) 10
21) Then you just dropped it??? What the hell?
23) Wow, so you had to ask the question 10 times??
24) correctly?
25) In a way, he did show that he thought I was town, but he did give some uncertainty, this did not warrant more than this one post against it
26) There is not wagon, and I could say you're doing the same thing.
27) This whole post is scummy, for what should be those weird reasons that you can see scum writing it but don't know exactly where the scummy is.
28) Because you are twisting what he's saying quite a bit. Also, you're attacking the popular wagon for shit reasons. Therefore, you are scum, or at least very scummy.
29) Is that better for ya?

[Xite91]

1) hey xite, quit role fishing...I have my reasons for asking what I asked.

2) once he(they) answered my question, I dropped it....I never once pushed a case against them (though I was about ready to I think, I felt they were dodging me)

3) also, Please please please, provide to me the quote where I twisted ANYTHING?!?! What I find really "funny" is you are voting me for twisting words (when i did the exact opposite) and avoiding the Pie wagon (when he ACTUALLY DID TWIST WORDS).

4) I say if Pie flips scum, his buddy is Xite.

....

5) actually the more I think (and reread this is preview)...you are probably scum either way....

you are going out of your way to avoid (and make sure everyone knows you are avoiding) the pie wagon.

You are voting for reasoning that does not make sense.

You are actually down right misrepresenting me or just simply lying

.

You attack me while I was trying to scum hunting (when I was questioning charilie and fakegod)

....

AND you are role fishing.

unvote, vote Xite

6) I will still vote Pie if needed...but I think pressure should be applied here.

1) You said you had reasons, never said it was role-based, therefore it was not role-fishing. Nice misrep.
2) Yeah, you said you had reasons, but never acted upon them, even though you thought they were lying (though you never said why). Also, you said they answered "correctly" which just doesn't seem like a good sentence. So unless your role is that you get to read a pm of anyone else whenever you want or something like that, I would like these reasons, regardless if it's role-based or not, because you calling it role-fishing is just a way to put the attention on me, when I can almost guarantee that there's not a hint of role-based information in it.
Oh yeah, and I saw your "breadcrumb" so, if that's what you're going to claim, then there's STILL no reason for you to have asked that many times.
3) You were twisting pieman's words, I gave you the ISO number didn't I? Read it and you'll see.
4) Setting up lynches already?
5) bolded. I started the piewagon IIRC. And when I made my vote, it was to see who jumped on. And guess what? You took the bait.
Underlined. How does it not make sense?
@Everyone else - Does the case make sense to you?
Italicized. Am I? Where and how?
bolded2. How was that scumhunting? You didn't give us any information on why you did it or anything like that, and then you dropped it. You were posting to dilute the thread and that was all.
underlined2. Still lol'ing at this one. So hard. Can't be role-fishing if I don't know that your "reasoning" (if you actually have any) is role-based.
6) Ahhh, the classic fence-sitting trick. Please, please everyone see the scum in this guy? It's so disturbingly obvious I want to shield my eyes

[Xite91]

Xite, do you think meta is a good way of finding mafia?

It depends greatly on the person.
With you, it very well could be (considering I've seen two completely different styles from you), but with others that play pretty much the same either way, it really isn't.

[Xite91]

It's scummy because "if and when" makes it sound like charlie thinks I'm town, but he just said I was anti-town (which pieman probably took as scum, but with charlie I know better )
That in conjunction with the fact that you did something similar very recently where you went all over the place with something small (your little question you kept asking and asking) it looks like you're trying hard to push a case that is not there and derail the town from scumhunting, therefore you seem like you are scum IMO.

now it's my turn to call you out on bullshit!
I saw CKD's point as completely legitimate.
where exactly do you see the connection between the questioning of FG/Charlie and the attack on PieMan?

I didn't see them as legit because it looked like nitpicking (as did pieman's) but CKD seems to be trying REAL hard to derail the scumhunting process based on his ISO

Indulge me, I need to read for a while. But from this page, I may already get some suspicion that either Xite or curiouskarmadog could be mafia.

Taz, I love you, I really do. But I hate when people fence-sit like this. Oh, by the way, nice to be in another game with you

Taz, try not to multi-post tooo much plz?

QFT

@xite, charlie, says when and if you flip town, ie it reads as if he knows you are town.

vote Pieman

pushing a bad wagon, the dude says "IF"...meaning uncertianity in the alignment....you are not scum hunting but pushing crap to see who will buy it....

Let's look at the Pieman bandwagon. Well, there's two good customers on it: Curiouskarmadog reads as town. Reckamonic reads as town. The guy called Pieman is being defended too much by Xite in post 172 (you're next on the lynch list as far as I'm concerned, Xite), and Pieman was weaksauce attacking Charlie for the when and if thing.

Vote: Pieman

Taz honey, I don't like this post one bit. Looks like you're setting up lynches.

And how come no one commented on my case on CKD? It was small and had some good info in it. Least I could get is why people think it's ignorable.

@Reckamonic, why is it scummy to vote for someone who is not saying why he is voting for that person?

It's not, but they probably see it as OMGUS, and probably think you're flailing, but I honestly think you're just newbtown. (no offence)

[Xite91]

Xite's a girl? This question is based on "honey."
It's kind of hard not to set up lynches when part of one's case involves one player being a defender of someone else whom you placed a vote on. i really think someone who played in the way that Pieman has should be left to fend for themselves, and it's on my watch list when players like Pieman are assisted by someone. Pieman needs no defense from death; we need to get information from his death. I want a post-mortem analysis from a cadaver.

Haha, I could just be gay
I'm not so much defending pieman is the thing. I'm attacking what I think is obvscum. If you didn't notice, I was the one that started the piemanwagon in the first place. Thing is he got decreasingly scummy and increasingly newbtownie as CKD got ridiculously scummy as the game went on. I want a CKD lynch because CKD is scum. I can decide whether or not pieman is or is not scum afterwards.

At best, I hope the info we get from the Pieman lynch is You've lynched Scum.
@Xite: I also noticed karmadog's post that you called fencesitting. Hmm, I won't triple post. Good for me.

Are you going to actually say anything about this? As to whether it's a good point or if it's scummy, or anything of the sort? Or just say hmm?

[Xite91]

EBWOP
BTW Karmadog, I've made a case about you and asked some questions... how about a response?

[Xite91]

1) you mean this "case"? there isnt a case here?

2) so you want me to go back through each of my posts, to see what you are commenting on?....

3) I have answered some of the questions though..like i am not going to provide my reasoning for pursuing questions against fakegod/charlie...I have my reasoning, and I am noting that you are trying to role fish..you will have to kill me tonight, if you want to find out my role, and I have a feeling you are dying to.

4) if you want me to answer individual questions, please provide the actual quote with the question so everyone can see what you are quoting (and what I am answering) without having to go back to ISO me...I mean, if you really feel that strong about a point, you should have already done that. if there is a case here, it is half ass.

5) Also I request once you quote whatever it is your what me to answer...you also provide 2-3 points to sum up your case...again this shouldnt be an issue if you really want people to believe you think i am scum.

6) personally, i think you are trying to throw shit against the wall to see if it sticks, try harder scum bag.

1) Of course it isn't. Or you're too lazy to actually defend against yourself and therefore just want to discredit me.
2) I do that in pretty much all of my games. You're supposed to read the case next to your ISO, I mean, hey, I made it next to your ISO, can't you stop being lazy and do the same? Also, I made it easy on you and added the ISO numbers so that you DON'T have to go searching for each question.
3) Again, I did not know it was role-fishing until I asked, which you then called out as role-fishing, which frankly is bullshit. At this point, I would like to know what role-based info you got when this was a DAY start, that is why I told you to claim, because you lying through your teeth. And again, I saw your "breadcrumb" and if that's what you were IF I were scum, I would not kill you, ESPECIALLY if you claimed it because town would have no problem killing you if you didn't get NK'd. None of your "role-fishing" accusation makes sense, therefore CLAIM NOW. because I'm tired of playing this game with you.
4) If you really plan to defend yourself, you can just go back and read yourself in ISO
5) Same request again, read 4. Also, all my points are there and it's really a small case compared to what I normally do, and no one asks for a tl;dr version, especially not the person the case is against because guess what? They actually care to defend themselves.
Also, I'd like to point out that the only times I've ever seen someone not care enough to defend themselves to a PbP (With exactly 1 exception, and they seriously did not give two shits about the game and were only there to mess with the other players... worse than a VI) is when they're scum and the points made against them were good ones.
6) I lol'd
Are you going to actually defend yourself yet? Or just try more to discredit me?

[Xite91]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tasky

Wont even state why hes voting.

yes, that's true. so what? why exactly is that scummy?

Cuz he hasn't seen you play before? But tasky, it really IS scummy, haven't you realized that yet?

Must... vote... for someone. But WHO??

CKD

[Xite91]

Here's how to scumhunt: Wagon on Tasky for scummy unjustified vote!

Vote: Tasky

It was a wagon. It's what he does based off of what I've seen of him. Ignore that part, he'll start being an actual player soon enough and then if he's scum you can catch him, the real player to wagon is CKD. Seriously.

[Xite91]

It's what he does?

Unvote

Yeah, I said that, are you reading?
Explains why you didn't comment on my CKD case

[Xite91]

I agree with Taz. Making the town play guessing games is anti-town. However, defending someone else's scummy actions the way Xite did is equally as scummy. I don't have a lot of data on Tasky at this point, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xite91

"I'm just going to come in here and agree with every one else and try to slip under the radar by voting someone that's getting a lot of attention right now"
That's what I saw in this post.

wow... the way of playing on this site really IS dogmatic (it's not just you guys, don't take this personally. I witnessed the same thing in other games too)... you are so fixed with your usual ways of playing that you don't open up to new things...
I know it can be difficult, but try...

well, I won't have much choice but adapt soon.
since you took all the pressure off PieMan, he won't respond the way it would give tells, I'll stop with that thing... (well, actually I just stopped, since I really find Xite scummy and my attack on PieMan was more a response-fishing-thing)

Actually I agree with that top statement, but each site has a different way it ticks. I've seen some players that vote people for explaining their vote because on the site they play, that's scummy. Odd huh?

Oh really? You find me scummy? How so? I don't see what I've done that's scummy except maybe try to get lying scum to claim because of a bullshit trick they tried to pull.

Dropping in here to say I'll be too busy to pay attention to this site for one or two days because of lab work.

VOTE: PieMan
Don't know why all the pressure seem to be shifting to others all the sudden.

FoS: brianj

. vote Xite91-scum or die!

You're not voting me.
Also, I have yet to see why I'm scummy. And you're not even trying to get me to point out why. And in that other game you didn't either... why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

VOTE COUNT

brianj (2): Charlie, Oman
curiouskarmadog (1): Xite91
PieMan (3): Reckamonic, Tasky, brianj
Reckamonic (1): yabbaguy
Tasky (1): PieMan
Xite91 (2): curiouskarmadog, Prof. Guppy
Not voting (2): FakeGod, Tazaro

With

12

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

I voted Xite:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

Actually, no you didn't. Prove me wrong. Link it.

[Xite91]

@Xite:
you are totally misrepresenting CKD... you say he did that question hammering thing in order to delay scumhunting, which obviously isn't true. look back, it's clear that he hadn't got an answer, it was his right to pretend one.
I don't know what he is going to do with that answer, maybe he IS scum, but then he is for other reasons (haven't seen anything major so far).
what you are doing is just creating stuff out of nothing to attack him, not good.

I voted Xite:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

Actually, no you didn't. Prove me wrong. Link it.

huh.

..

First, that wasn't the only point to my case, and I've NEVER seen someone in a game (if you have then show me) repeat the same EXACT thing that many times in order to get an answer. Also, he said he had reasons. When I asked him, he accused me of role-fishing when he hinted nothing at a role before hand. This is a common scum trap.

faillink. But okay, I missed it. It was hiding I deeply apologize.

why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

explain what you think is a lie there.
how can a theory thing be a lie? I could be wrong with my opinion, but how am I supposed to lie?

I meant the fact that you think that is a lie, because you never asked me to find your reasons or in the other case I saw you do this, you never asked them either IIRC. Why only him? That kind of disproves that you do it because of a theory.

[Xite91]

Just a few initial thoughts-

CKD-

1) I'm a trifle lost; I would appreciate you giving your reasons for your TOWN/TOWNIE/PRO-TOWN/OTHER question (quote another post of yours if you answered this already). Were you skeptical at the time?

XITE-

Oman... uh... breadcrumb or random noise?

2) What is the point of this question?

Last, Unvote, Vote Pieman
Not liking him so much yet. Not sure if it's the dumb blonde vibe I'm getting from him (sorry blondes) or if he's just plain scummy, but we'll see as we go along

3) Terrible and scummy vote. What are "not liking" and "dumb blonde vibe" supposed to mean?

4) ...come to think of it, I quoted a Xite vote on Pie. This could actually be very interesting. And now I'm sleepy and going to bed.

1) Be careful, he'll say you're role-fishing.
2) Asking him the point of his post
3) It was the way he was playing. I didn't like it. I had a friend once that made an alt solely to act like a blondie noob so that people would respond to him differently than they do when they know it's him. His idea was that people would never vote him after a few games because of the way his alt's "playstyle" was.
4) Guess what? I voted him FIRST before ANYONE voted him and before the wagon started, then people started voting for terrible reasons and CKD became my top suspect, and I decided to unvote.

[Xite91]

why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

Theory box is obv credible.

Vote: Xite

Then why didn't he ask me why he was voting me? Instead of just saying "oh, xite's terribly scummy (for... uh scumhunging?)"

Xite, do you have a theory box for the theory of Tasky-scum ?

Considering I'm not positive he's scum yet?
And honestly, do I really need a goddamn box to give a theory? What about my theory on CKD-scum? How come barely anyone has commented on that yet?

[Xite91]

My thinking is that if it's credible, then a person (Xite) who attacks said credible thing consequently loses town cred.

But my theory is that if it's credible, and he's using said tactic on the first person, and then using what seems to be the same tactic on another player (or another, etc.) then why would he not ask the question that he said made it credible?

[Xite91]

Oh wow, I have four votes...

hey xite, quit role fishing...I have my reasons for asking what I asked.

once he(they) answered my question, I dropped it....I never once pushed a case against them (though I was about ready to I think, I felt they were dodging me)

also, Please please please, provide to me the quote where I twisted ANYTHING?!?! What I find really "funny" is you are voting me for twisting words (when i did the exact opposite) and avoiding the Pie wagon (when he ACTUALLY DID TWIST WORDS).

I say if Pie flips scum, his buddy is Xite.

....

actually the more I think (and reread this is preview)...you are probably scum either way....you are going out of your way to avoid (and make sure everyone knows you are avoiding) the pie wagon. You are voting for reasoning that does not make sense. You are actually down right misrepresenting me or just simply lying. You attack me while I was trying to scum hunting (when I was questioning charilie and fakegod)....AND you are role fishing.

unvote, vote Xite

I will still vote Pie if needed...but I think pressure should be applied here.

an OMGUS vote

I agree with Taz. Making the town play guessing games is anti-town. However, defending someone else's scummy actions the way Xite did is equally as scummy. I don't have a lot of data on Tasky at this point, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xite91

A bad sheep vote

Oddly enough, he was the second on the pieman wagon, too

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tasky

Wont even state why hes voting.

yes, that's true. so what? why exactly is that scummy?

Let's look at the Pieman bandwagon. Well, there's two good customers on it: Curiouskarmadog reads as town. Reckamonic reads as town. The guy called Pieman is being defended too much by Xite in post 172 (you're next on the lynch list as far as I'm concerned, Xite), and Pieman was weaksauce attacking Charlie for the when and if thing.

Vote: Pieman

would you mind rephrase this post? I honestly didn't really understand your point here.

I didn't see them as legit because it looked like nitpicking (as did pieman's) but CKD seems to be trying REAL hard to derail the scumhunting process based on his ISO

now this is serious bullshit. you think CKD's intention was derailing scumhunting with his question-thing on Charlie/FG. you can't really believe that?
I don't know whether CKD really had anything there or if he just wanted to get town cred, or what else. but his point is completely legitimate until proven otherwise. he obviously had some inside information and the wording of the claim didn't match it, so he asked for a clarification?
I really think you are misrepresenting people here.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

a blatant wagoner's vote... but actually looking at it, I will take back that his vote on me was a blatant wagon, I forgot he made a point against me... Super buddying up to CKD, how do you know? I didn't find it obvious. This vote is a buddying vote more than anything else

why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

Theory box is obv credible.

Vote: Xite

And a neurotic player vote (no offense taz, that part is a joke)
that has to do with me questioning a tactic that a player believes in but doesn't use every time he blatant wagons (his vote on me wasn't a blatant wagon, as stated above, but this isn't the first time I've seen it, like I said, here are games he's done it that are completed, this one he asked and said it was a new technique, but read the last url, he didn't here, and he didn't ask why here. this one is the most important to make my point though.)
There's my defense of asking tasky what was going on, also, he didn't correct me to say that his vote on me wasn't a blatant wagon...

[Xite91]

@xite, Can you explain that last part again, it does not make as much sense to me, as it appears to you. I understand that he apparently lied about it being a new technique, its a little different since it seems to involve everyone, instead of just two people, but w/e its not this game.

could you explain the wagoning thing, I did see the trying to get brian to vote for you, but ive come to terms that that is a thing people do on this site, and as much as it should be discouraged, I have to deal with it.

Those were his completed games... I was giving a bit of meta of him, in those, only 2 had the same type of wagoning he used here, and of those 2, 1 had stated absolutely nothing, and the other had said it was his first time he was trying it.
I would also add our game together, but it's ongoing (shouldn't be for too much longer though, so bear with me)

hmm? not sure what you mean here

[Xite91]

Im trying to get what exactly you mean by wagonning, thats the part im missing, apparently your terminology does not match my terminology.

I also dont get how this meta makes him more likely to be scum, unless I missed a game there, he was town in them all.

it doesn't. I'm pointing it out because I was giving my reason for now believing his theory box, which I don't

[Xite91]

Im trying to get what exactly you mean by wagonning, thats the part im missing, apparently your terminology does not match my terminology.

I also dont get how this meta makes him more likely to be scum, unless I missed a game there, he was town in them all.

it doesn't. I'm pointing it out because I was giving my reason for

not

believing his theory box, which I don't

I just realized a mistake I made in this.
now should be not, edited up there so you can read it the way it's supposed to be

Tasky, in regards to why I'm scum;

please state your thesis, your arguments, and state why those arguments support your thesis.

Also, I just said that I don't agree that that's what you believe. I'm not apt to think you're scum yet, but I don't believe what you were saying is truly how you feel.

[Xite91]

I feel a pyramid is more readable in this instance:

Just a few initial thoughts-

CKD-

1) I'm a trifle lost; I would appreciate you giving your reasons for your TOWN/TOWNIE/PRO-TOWN/OTHER question (quote another post of yours if you answered this already). Were you skeptical at the time?

XITE-

Oman... uh... breadcrumb or random noise?

2) What is the point of this question?

Last, Unvote, Vote Pieman
Not liking him so much yet. Not sure if it's the dumb blonde vibe I'm getting from him (sorry blondes) or if he's just plain scummy, but we'll see as we go along

3) Terrible and scummy vote. What are "not liking" and "dumb blonde vibe" supposed to mean?

4) ...come to think of it, I quoted a Xite vote on Pie. This could actually be very interesting. And now I'm sleepy and going to bed.

1) Be careful, he'll say you're role-fishing.
2) Asking him the point of his post
3) It was the way he was playing. I didn't like it. I had a friend once that made an alt solely to act like a blondie noob so that people would respond to him differently than they do when they know it's him. His idea was that people would never vote him after a few games because of the way his alt's "playstyle" was.
4) Guess what? I voted him FIRST before ANYONE voted him and before the wagon started, then people started voting for terrible reasons and CKD became my top suspect, and I decided to unvote.

1) ??????
2) That can't possibly be a benign question. You're fishing to ask if he's softclaiming.
3) This I construe to be a policy vote on a VI, and one of the biggest scumtells I can fathom is when someone tries to push a crap case on someone who is merely playing badly. For me, policy voting counts as a bad case.
4) I'm missing the point of why first on a wagon automatically somehow absolves you of responsibility. The latter point is a bit more pertinent and something pro-Town (checking for reckless wagonning) though, I will admit.

1) I asked him the same thing, and that's where his attack at me for role-fishing came from. It was partly annoyance and partly sarcasm directed at CKD not at you
2) I was asking if it was a softclaim, yes, but I was also asking if I should make anything of it because I have known players to post random noise and I have taken it as a breadcrumb, and found out later that it wasn't at all. I try to clarify things like that a lot of the time because otherwise they just confuse people and add uselessness to the thread, unless there is a point behind them, which was why I was trying to figure it out. Sorry if that goes in circles a bit, I'm trying to explain it to the best of my ability, but I have a terrible migraine and I'm not thinking clearly.
3) First off, it was not a policy vote on a VI. Hell, I play as VI why would I want to policy vote one? I was voting him because the way he was playing was scummy (and I probably found scumtells somewhere in there too, but I don't remember them and I'm not really in the mood to go back and find them, especially considering I'm not too certain he's scum anymore) Also, I pushed absolutely NO case on him, make a point of that as a scumtell (because it can be) instead of the random bullshit you're spewing.
4) I was pointing out that you really can't get on me for wagoning, because I voted him first and before there was a great amount of suspicion on him. Yes, I was on the wagon, but considering I started said wagon, it's not scummy. Jumping off may have been, but I didn't have THAT good of a scum read on him yet (and still don't or I'd be back on there) and I found a much better lynch candidate.

@Taz(Tybalt?) - I totally agree

[Xite91]

Sorry guys, been sort of V/La, getting back on track

Okay, I just read through all of Xite's posts, and his actions overall seem to be pro-town. He's asking plenty of questions, and calling people out on things that are scummy. BUT...there is the bit about CKD. I don't believe asking a question is scummy. Dismissing a question as unimportant or as blatantly obvious is not helpful. The answer clearly wasn't obvious to him, that's why he asked. The pro-town thing to do in this situation would be to ANSWER THE QUESTION! So what I want to know is...

What is it about CKD that you find so damn scummy, Xite?

Answer satisfactorily, and I might change my vote. Fail to answer, and you are obvscum.

Wait, if you read all of my posts, how did you miss my case on him?
First, he has been diluting the thread (For chrissake, he posted that same question how many times? And he even admitted to just copying and pasting his question.
He snapped like crazy because his little question wasn't being answered
And then he diluted the thread and when I made a case against him, he called it not a case and barely addressed it (something I find scum do more than townies)
And lets not forget, oh you asked me about the reasons I hinted at ROLEFISHING!!!

1) My biggest problems are that he said "Mason-like". There was no mention of confirming two players, which would have been the first thing out of my mouth as a town player making the call to softclaim. I also hate the "useless" thing.

2) Xite91 Lots of noise. The amount of posting doesn't correspond with the amount of information. Asking me if I was breadcrumbing is a stupid question, and definitely not a town one.

3) Xite has this habit of saying "I GET WHAT YOUR BREADCRUMB/VAGUE POST WAS SAYING!" I don't think it's helpful, it's definitely not a good idea. It adds nothing and it feels like buddying.

4) Made rolefishing #112.

5) #161 is a horrible post. "AtE Noted" when did respect get kicked out of this game? I posted that I didn't get the CKD vote, and I still mean it.

6) #178: Worst version of one of the worst ways to read someone ever. Full of emotion, was never going to show anything.

CKD says it best

you mean this "case"? there isnt a case here?

[/list]

7) Questions: Charlie: Did you two know who each other were, or have a way of identifying each other, either a callsign or something that needed to be posted in the thread?

1) If you read the thread (hey, part of it is even my posts... what was that about taking things out of context?)
2) Where's this "lot of noise?" Point out my posts that don't have any information in them.
3) The CKD one was because his breadcrumb is bullshit if he's saying that me asking him what his reasons were was rolefishing.
4) It may have been role-fishing, true, but it was because that was the only way I felt that they were both town. Also, that post shows why it's mason-like. Funny how you're not really looking at the big picture.
5) Here's the post that I said "AtE noted."

Hhey, ckd?
Quit repeating the same thing over and over again?
It's getting annoying and clogging the thread. I'm to the point where I just want to lynch you so you'll shut up. The answer should be obvious by now.
I feel like you're trying to keep us on this topic to keep us from scumhunting.

noted, then do it, or back off, you cant bully me.

Kind of reminds you of "sticks and stones can break my bones..." doesn't it? It looks like he's using emotion in his favor which is... AtE? Oh yeah!
Also, what do you mean respect being kicked out? Where was I disrespectful?
6) Where's the emotion? Oh, you mean my playstyle? Honestly, it's more sarcasm than emotion. Unless you have something else you meant.
7) It's funny that you read my posts, pointed out the "role-fishing" but failed to realize anything after it. Wait, did you ISO me?

Is it okay if I skim textwalls?

I'd prefer you didn't, but you're going to do what you want anyways aren't you?

8) The post is very defensive, and very cold. Xite and CKD were very emotive towards each other, then all of a sudden Xite just goes cold and says "Appeal to Emotion is noted" which is in itself a bad idea. Appeal to emotion is one of my least favourite fallacies because people use it horribly. An appeal to emotion isn't just an emotive post, it's when the emotion within that post is calculated to present the best possible outcome for that player.

9) Isolation reads are the worst way to try to determine someone's alignment, because it lacks context even more so than any other kind of read. All you get are their posts, and some memory. If you use facebook, it's like reading back through one person's individual stream of status updates. It floods you, and it clouds the vision. And Xite's is terrible because it doesn't read or analyse anything. It's just bitter.

8) I didn't go cold, and again, that wasn't so much emotion as sarcasm. The AtE annoyed the shit out of me because he was acting very much like a 3 year old who was being picked on by the big kids.

9) I only do ISO's after I'm convinced someone's scum. Also, most of the time (unless I remember what was going on at that point) I will go through and read a couple of posts above each of their ISO posts. (they have this nifty jump to post option...) It doesn't what? Really? Did you actually read the post? There were definitely points there. Would you like me to go through and make them easier to understand or something? Cuz I can.

[Xite91]

I only do ISO's after I'm convinced someone's scum.

Then they're even more pointless. Confirmation bias.

Your overwhelming amount of sarcasm makes it seem like you're just bitter or angry. It looks irrational and leads me to disregard large amounts of your posts due to the overall feeling that they are spiteful.

Also, quit asking me if I read things. I reread the thread twice (in it's entirety, not isolating any posts). I can read, you can read, let's all assume that people who are posting, are reading.

no, it's called making a case. That's what I was doing, it was nothing to convince me, it was to convince the rest of you.

I'm sorry? Try to just take them as they are and realize that I DO make some good points a lot of the time and I DO have a good signal-noise ratio, instead of just saying that I post too much noise.

Okay, then post like it. Things you ask have been answered. Things you say have been said, that was the only real point I was trying to make out of that.

[Xite91]

7) fuck me in the eye, no one is commenting on your case because you havent put one the fuck out there.
Really? how many times have you asked me to defend a case that isnt there?

8) I do have my reasons, if I didnt state those reason it is probably role related...you keep asking anyway, and I keep saying you are rolefishing, at that point it is obviously role related..but you keep at it..I am not going to tell you, scum bag…

9) I have my reasons, I was skeptical yes. I obviously have a PM that states something…when they said they could confirm each other as “town”, I wanted to know the exact wording…for example the sample PM said “townie”…which was different than “town”….however, the correct answer, is not any of the first three (again, have my reason)…they correctly answered the question “something the like, but not those”. If they would have said any of the first three…They would have gotten a vote from me…

10) Because the scum bag keeps rolefishing.

----
11) Xite, just post the case...points and why you think they are scummy, backed by quotes. If the whole case is "you asked the same question over and over again"..that is not a case..I have my fucking reasons for doing so...I didnt feel they answered the question...when they finally did (or I finally realized they did from Charlie)...I backed off, because i got the answer I was looking for...

1) Yes I have, I've said multiple things against you and I have made valid points and I even did an ISO against you.

2) Go back and read any one of my games. ANY OF THEM and you will see at least 1 ISO case. Also, I would like to invite you to read the thread again, I rarely do ISO cases unless I truly believe someone is scum. And in any other game, they will DEFEND themselves to each and every point, that fact that you won't makes you the scum here, bub.

3) Yes, now it can be called role-fishing, but considering that you only called it role-fishing AFTER I asked, I am calling bull shit on it and I am asking you nicely to claim. And ya know what, get me lynched. When I flip town, you'll be claiming tomorrow.

4&5) No, you're scummy, here's why, read it WITH your ISO. It's not a hard task. I promise you.

Again there IS a case, and when I flip town, people will start to realize how smart I was and you will be lynched next. Is that a fair trade mr.scum?

6) Hmm... read the thread. I did already respond to that when SOMEONE ELSE asked for it, because with you, you're looking for differences so you can shrug them off and say that it's still not a case. I've seen it before, and guess who does it? If you guessed scum, you're right
And I'm not scared, it's just that any townie I've ever made a case on RESPONDED TO AND EVEN DISPROVED MY POINTS IN ISO. If you refuse to do this you are SCUM

7) Really? I haven't? Again, read and the answer will be shown to you.

8) Uhm... no. I have never heard of anyone ever saying "if I didn't state my reasons it's role-related" that's straight up stupid. If you don't want people asking, don't say it. Since you said it, I asked, that is NEVER role-fishing. Now again, this whole argument is bullshit because you're LYING.

9) holyfuckingshit a role pm that says something. Noooo it can't be.
Anyways, I thought your reasons were because of YOUR role-pm. How does me asking about your reasons that are based off the SAMPLE pm = role-fishing. Didn't I call bullshit? Oh wait, I was right.

10) It is now obvious I was not role-fishing when I asked you what I asked, try harder.

11) The ISO is the quotes, and the points are throughout the thread. again, READ. THE. THREAD.

[Xite91]

@Xite: -you still shouldn't be fishing at the breadcrumbs. Ignore if in doubt.
-How is "Not liking him so much yet. Not sure if it's the dumb blonde vibe I'm getting from him (sorry blondes) or if he's just plain scummy, but we'll see as we go along" not a potential VI policy vote? I mean, it's even fencesitting on which it is, and if so, why are you on the fence, yet voting? It makes no sense.
-Even if I can't call it a wagon, the above rationale for voting him isn't adequate as explained above. I also never said unvoting was scummy.

I don't see any reason to drag this Day out. I'm going to be ticked if anyone was voting without intent to end the Day.

Vote: Xite91

(L-1)

- Uhm, sorry? that's part of how I play?
- Because if you look at it in context,

First, I'm going to have to read a few games from Charlie because he's playing completely different than what I'm used to from him. (Mass posts wtf???) I'll have to see what his town/scum/third party metas are before I say if it's scum or town oriented or anything at all.
Second, how am I apprehensive?
Third, Okay I'm pretty sure I know what's going on, and if that's it, I can almost guarantee they're both town. Hey Charlie do you have a qt with FG?
Last,

Unvote, Vote Pieman

Not liking him so much yet. Not sure if it's the dumb blonde vibe I'm getting from him (sorry blondes) or if he's just plain scummy, but we'll see as we go along

I was taking my vote off my no longer top suspect and moving it to the next scummiest player, but I was pointing out that it was a gut feeling, which is a perfectly valid reason to vote someone if it's the first and sometimes second or third vote (based on game size)
- So what makes me so scummy that you'll put me at L-1?

We haven't really even had a lot to today yet, why do you want it to end so fast?

@Xite:

STOP SAYING THAT YOU EXPOSED YOUR CASE ALREADY.

If you have, it was not clear enough. If you have, you should have no problem to state it again.

DO THAT

. Pick Quotes of CKD and write in a

systematic

,

clear

and

concise

way why he is scummy! after every point, add a

link

to your post where you already stated it. should you fail to do so in your next post

HAMMER HIM, GUYS.

@everyone else, don't hammer until he has the chance to post that god damn case (if it exists).

*Sigh*
Here, all of the times I made one or more points against CKD
Points against him are bolded for those who are obviously too lazy to read them and find out for themselves;

Hhey, ckd?
Quit repeating the same thing over and over again?

It's getting annoying and clogging the thread.

I'm to the point where I just want to lynch you so you'll shut up. The answer should be obvious by now.

I feel like you're trying to keep us on this topic to keep us from scumhunting.

your statement makes no since....

pie was the one you was attacking charlie for the "if and when"..I am attacking pie for his scummy manuver of the words.

and was that anywhere close to what I was asking fakegod and charlie?...what case did I push against them?

sorry I'm half asleep and sick, let me see if I can make sense of what I'm trying to say for you;
here, I'll just do an ISO case on you, k?

1) What did you think he was saying? Or is this just a way to look town?
4) 1 and 2 are the same question worded 2 different ways
6) starting a count of how many times you ask, so this is for all intents and purposes the 2nd time
7) 3
9) 4
10) 5
11) 6 - and you're encouraging tunneling
13) 7
14) guess what? I voted you. And I'm prolly gonna get you lynched. Can I bully you now?
15) not exactly 8, but still not dropping it
16) I'll consider this and 15 = to one, so 8
17) 9
18) actually, it was 9
19) So what were those reasons? You never told me what they were
20) 10
21) Then you just dropped it??? What the hell?
23) Wow, so you had to ask the question 10 times??
24) correctly?
25) In a way, he did show that he thought I was town, but he did give some uncertainty, this did not warrant more than this one post against it
26) There is not wagon, and I could say you're doing the same thing.
27) This whole post is scummy, for what should be those weird reasons that you can see scum writing it but don't know exactly where the scummy is.
28) Because you are twisting what he's saying quite a bit. Also, you're attacking the popular wagon for shit reasons. Therefore, you are scum, or at least very scummy.

29) Is that better for ya?

1) hey xite, quit role fishing...I have my reasons for asking what I asked.

2) once he(they) answered my question, I dropped it....I never once pushed a case against them (though I was about ready to I think, I felt they were dodging me)

3) also, Please please please, provide to me the quote where I twisted ANYTHING?!?! What I find really "funny" is you are voting me for twisting words (when i did the exact opposite) and avoiding the Pie wagon (when he ACTUALLY DID TWIST WORDS).

4) I say if Pie flips scum, his buddy is Xite.

....

5) actually the more I think (and reread this is preview)...you are probably scum either way....

you are going out of your way to avoid (and make sure everyone knows you are avoiding) the pie wagon.

You are voting for reasoning that does not make sense.

You are actually down right misrepresenting me or just simply lying

.

You attack me while I was trying to scum hunting (when I was questioning charilie and fakegod)

....

AND you are role fishing.

unvote, vote Xite

6) I will still vote Pie if needed...but I think pressure should be applied here.

1) You said you had reasons, never said it was role-based, therefore it was not role-fishing. Nice misrep.
2) Yeah, you said you had reasons, but never acted upon them, even though you thought they were lying (though you never said why). Also, you said they answered "correctly" which just doesn't seem like a good sentence. So unless your role is that you get to read a pm of anyone else whenever you want or something like that, I would like these reasons, regardless if it's role-based or not, because you calling it role-fishing is just a way to put the attention on me, when I can almost guarantee that there's not a hint of role-based information in it.
Oh yeah, and I saw your "breadcrumb" so, if that's what you're going to claim, then there's STILL no reason for you to have asked that many times.
3) You were twisting pieman's words, I gave you the ISO number didn't I? Read it and you'll see.
4) Setting up lynches already?
5) bolded. I started the piewagon IIRC. And when I made my vote, it was to see who jumped on. And guess what? You took the bait.
Underlined. How does it not make sense?
@Everyone else - Does the case make sense to you?
Italicized. Am I? Where and how?
bolded2. How was that scumhunting? You didn't give us any information on why you did it or anything like that, and then you dropped it. You were posting to dilute the thread and that was all.
underlined2. Still lol'ing at this one. So hard. Can't be role-fishing if I don't know that your "reasoning" (if you actually have any) is role-based.
6) Ahhh, the classic fence-sitting trick. Please, please everyone see the scum in this guy? It's so disturbingly obvious I want to shield my eyes

1) you mean this "case"? there isnt a case here?

2) so you want me to go back through each of my posts, to see what you are commenting on?....

3) I have answered some of the questions though..like i am not going to provide my reasoning for pursuing questions against fakegod/charlie...I have my reasoning, and I am noting that you are trying to role fish..you will have to kill me tonight, if you want to find out my role, and I have a feeling you are dying to.

4) if you want me to answer individual questions, please provide the actual quote with the question so everyone can see what you are quoting (and what I am answering) without having to go back to ISO me...I mean, if you really feel that strong about a point, you should have already done that. if there is a case here, it is half ass.

5) Also I request once you quote whatever it is your what me to answer...you also provide 2-3 points to sum up your case...again this shouldnt be an issue if you really want people to believe you think i am scum.

6) personally, i think you are trying to throw shit against the wall to see if it sticks, try harder scum bag.

1) Of course it isn't. Or you're too lazy to actually defend against yourself and therefore just want to discredit me.
2) I do that in pretty much all of my games. You're supposed to read the case next to your ISO, I mean, hey, I made it next to your ISO, can't you stop being lazy and do the same? Also, I made it easy on you and added the ISO numbers so that you DON'T have to go searching for each question.
3) Again, I did not know it was role-fishing until I asked, which you then called out as role-fishing, which frankly is bullshit. At this point, I would like to know what role-based info you got when this was a DAY start, that is why I told you to claim, because you lying through your teeth. And again, I saw your "breadcrumb" and if that's what you were IF I were scum, I would not kill you, ESPECIALLY if you claimed it because town would have no problem killing you if you didn't get NK'd. None of your "role-fishing" accusation makes sense, therefore CLAIM NOW. because I'm tired of playing this game with you.
4) If you really plan to defend yourself, you can just go back and read yourself in ISO
5) Same request again, read 4. Also, all my points are there and it's really a small case compared to what I normally do, and no one asks for a tl;dr version, especially not the person the case is against because guess what? They actually care to defend themselves.
Also, I'd like to point out that the only times I've ever seen someone not care enough to defend themselves to a PbP (With exactly 1 exception, and they seriously did not give two shits about the game and were only there to mess with the other players... worse than a VI) is when they're scum and the points made against them were good ones.
6) I lol'd
Are you going to actually defend yourself yet? Or just try more to discredit me?

@Xite:
you are totally misrepresenting CKD... you say he did that question hammering thing in order to delay scumhunting, which obviously isn't true. look back, it's clear that he hadn't got an answer, it was his right to pretend one.
I don't know what he is going to do with that answer, maybe he IS scum, but then he is for other reasons (haven't seen anything major so far).
what you are doing is just creating stuff out of nothing to attack him, not good.

I voted Xite:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

Actually, no you didn't. Prove me wrong. Link it.

huh.

..

First, that wasn't the only point to my case, and I've NEVER seen someone in a game (if you have then show me) repeat the same EXACT thing that many times in order to get an answer. Also, he said he had reasons. When I asked him, he accused me of role-fishing when he hinted nothing at a role before hand. This is a common scum trap.

faillink. But okay, I missed it. It was hiding I deeply apologize.

why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

explain what you think is a lie there.
how can a theory thing be a lie? I could be wrong with my opinion, but how am I supposed to lie?

I meant the fact that you think that is a lie, because you never asked me to find your reasons or in the other case I saw you do this, you never asked them either IIRC. Why only him? That kind of disproves that you do it because of a theory.

Oh wow, I have four votes...

hey xite, quit role fishing...I have my reasons for asking what I asked.

once he(they) answered my question, I dropped it....I never once pushed a case against them (though I was about ready to I think, I felt they were dodging me)

also, Please please please, provide to me the quote where I twisted ANYTHING?!?! What I find really "funny" is you are voting me for twisting words (when i did the exact opposite) and avoiding the Pie wagon (when he ACTUALLY DID TWIST WORDS).

I say if Pie flips scum, his buddy is Xite.

....

actually the more I think (and reread this is preview)...you are probably scum either way....you are going out of your way to avoid (and make sure everyone knows you are avoiding) the pie wagon. You are voting for reasoning that does not make sense. You are actually down right misrepresenting me or just simply lying. You attack me while I was trying to scum hunting (when I was questioning charilie and fakegod)....AND you are role fishing.

unvote, vote Xite

I will still vote Pie if needed...but I think pressure should be applied here.

an OMGUS vote

I agree with Taz. Making the town play guessing games is anti-town. However, defending someone else's scummy actions the way Xite did is equally as scummy. I don't have a lot of data on Tasky at this point, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xite91

A bad sheep vote

Oddly enough, he was the second on the pieman wagon, too

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tasky

Wont even state why hes voting.

yes, that's true. so what? why exactly is that scummy?

Let's look at the Pieman bandwagon. Well, there's two good customers on it: Curiouskarmadog reads as town. Reckamonic reads as town. The guy called Pieman is being defended too much by Xite in post 172 (you're next on the lynch list as far as I'm concerned, Xite), and Pieman was weaksauce attacking Charlie for the when and if thing.

Vote: Pieman

would you mind rephrase this post? I honestly didn't really understand your point here.

I didn't see them as legit because it looked like nitpicking (as did pieman's) but CKD seems to be trying REAL hard to derail the scumhunting process based on his ISO

now this is serious bullshit. you think CKD's intention was derailing scumhunting with his question-thing on Charlie/FG. you can't really believe that?
I don't know whether CKD really had anything there or if he just wanted to get town cred, or what else. but his point is completely legitimate until proven otherwise. he obviously had some inside information and the wording of the claim didn't match it, so he asked for a clarification?
I really think you are misrepresenting people here.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Xite91

a blatant wagoner's vote... but actually looking at it, I will take back that his vote on me was a blatant wagon, I forgot he made a point against me... Super buddying up to CKD, how do you know? I didn't find it obvious. This vote is a buddying vote more than anything else

why do I feel like that theory box is a blatant lie?

Theory box is obv credible.

Vote: Xite

And a neurotic player vote (no offense taz, that part is a joke)
that has to do with me questioning a tactic that a player believes in but doesn't use every time he blatant wagons (his vote on me wasn't a blatant wagon, as stated above, but this isn't the first time I've seen it, like I said, here are games he's done it that are completed, this one he asked and said it was a new technique, but read the last url, he didn't here, and he didn't ask why here. this one is the most important to make my point though.)
There's my defense of asking tasky what was going on, also, he didn't correct me to say that his vote on me wasn't a blatant wagon...

Sorry guys, been sort of V/La, getting back on track

Okay, I just read through all of Xite's posts, and his actions overall seem to be pro-town. He's asking plenty of questions, and calling people out on things that are scummy. BUT...there is the bit about CKD. I don't believe asking a question is scummy. Dismissing a question as unimportant or as blatantly obvious is not helpful. The answer clearly wasn't obvious to him, that's why he asked. The pro-town thing to do in this situation would be to ANSWER THE QUESTION! So what I want to know is...

What is it about CKD that you find so damn scummy, Xite?

Answer satisfactorily, and I might change my vote. Fail to answer, and you are obvscum.

Wait, if you read all of my posts, how did you miss my case on him?
First, he has been diluting the thread (For chrissake, he posted that same question how many times? And he even admitted to just copying and pasting his question.
He snapped like crazy because his little question wasn't being answered
And then he diluted the thread and when I made a case against him, he called it not a case and barely addressed it (something I find scum do more than townies)
And lets not forget, oh you asked me about the reasons I hinted at ROLEFISHING!!!

1) My biggest problems are that he said "Mason-like". There was no mention of confirming two players, which would have been the first thing out of my mouth as a town player making the call to softclaim. I also hate the "useless" thing.

2) Xite91 Lots of noise. The amount of posting doesn't correspond with the amount of information. Asking me if I was breadcrumbing is a stupid question, and definitely not a town one.

3) Xite has this habit of saying "I GET WHAT YOUR BREADCRUMB/VAGUE POST WAS SAYING!" I don't think it's helpful, it's definitely not a good idea. It adds nothing and it feels like buddying.

4) Made rolefishing #112.

5) #161 is a horrible post. "AtE Noted" when did respect get kicked out of this game? I posted that I didn't get the CKD vote, and I still mean it.

6) #178: Worst version of one of the worst ways to read someone ever. Full of emotion, was never going to show anything.

CKD says it best

you mean this "case"? there isnt a case here?

[/list]

7) Questions: Charlie: Did you two know who each other were, or have a way of identifying each other, either a callsign or something that needed to be posted in the thread?

1) If you read the thread (hey, part of it is even my posts... what was that about taking things out of context?)
2) Where's this "lot of noise?" Point out my posts that don't have any information in them.
3)

The CKD one was because his breadcrumb is bullshit if he's saying that me asking him what his reasons were was rolefishing.

4) It may have been role-fishing, true, but it was because that was the only way I felt that they were both town. Also, that post shows why it's mason-like. Funny how you're not really looking at the big picture.
5) Here's the post that I said "AtE noted."

Hhey, ckd?
Quit repeating the same thing over and over again?
It's getting annoying and clogging the thread. I'm to the point where I just want to lynch you so you'll shut up. The answer should be obvious by now.
I feel like you're trying to keep us on this topic to keep us from scumhunting.

noted, then do it, or back off, you cant bully me.

Kind of reminds you of "sticks and stones can break my bones..." doesn't it? It looks like he's using emotion in his favor which is... AtE? Oh yeah!
Also, what do you mean respect being kicked out? Where was I disrespectful?

6) Where's the emotion? Oh, you mean my playstyle? Honestly, it's more sarcasm than emotion. Unless you have something else you meant.
7) It's funny that you read my posts, pointed out the "role-fishing" but failed to realize anything after it. Wait, did you ISO me?

Is it okay if I skim textwalls?

I'd prefer you didn't, but you're going to do what you want anyways aren't you?

8) The post is very defensive, and very cold. Xite and CKD were very emotive towards each other, then all of a sudden Xite just goes cold and says "Appeal to Emotion is noted" which is in itself a bad idea. Appeal to emotion is one of my least favourite fallacies because people use it horribly. An appeal to emotion isn't just an emotive post, it's when the emotion within that post is calculated to present the best possible outcome for that player.

9) Isolation reads are the worst way to try to determine someone's alignment, because it lacks context even more so than any other kind of read. All you get are their posts, and some memory. If you use facebook, it's like reading back through one person's individual stream of status updates. It floods you, and it clouds the vision. And Xite's is terrible because it doesn't read or analyse anything. It's just bitter.

8) I didn't go cold, and again, that wasn't so much emotion as sarcasm. The AtE annoyed the shit out of me because he was acting very much like a 3 year old who was being picked on by the big kids.

9) I only do ISO's after I'm convinced someone's scum. Also, most of the time (unless I remember what was going on at that point) I will go through and read a couple of posts above each of their ISO posts. (they have this nifty jump to post option...) It doesn't what? Really? Did you actually read the post? There were definitely points there. Would you like me to go through and make them easier to understand or something? Cuz I can.

7) fuck me in the eye, no one is commenting on your case because you havent put one the fuck out there.
Really? how many times have you asked me to defend a case that isnt there?

8) I do have my reasons, if I didnt state those reason it is probably role related...you keep asking anyway, and I keep saying you are rolefishing, at that point it is obviously role related..but you keep at it..I am not going to tell you, scum bag…

9) I have my reasons, I was skeptical yes. I obviously have a PM that states something…when they said they could confirm each other as “town”, I wanted to know the exact wording…for example the sample PM said “townie”…which was different than “town”….however, the correct answer, is not any of the first three (again, have my reason)…they correctly answered the question “something the like, but not those”. If they would have said any of the first three…They would have gotten a vote from me…

10) Because the scum bag keeps rolefishing.

----
11) Xite, just post the case...points and why you think they are scummy, backed by quotes. If the whole case is "you asked the same question over and over again"..that is not a case..I have my fucking reasons for doing so...I didnt feel they answered the question...when they finally did (or I finally realized they did from Charlie)...I backed off, because i got the answer I was looking for...

1) Yes I have, I've said multiple things against you and I have made valid points and I even did an ISO against you.

2) Go back and read any one of my games. ANY OF THEM and you will see at least 1 ISO case. Also, I would like to invite you to read the thread again, I rarely do ISO cases unless I truly believe someone is scum. And in any other game, they will DEFEND themselves to each and every point, that fact that you won't makes you the scum here, bub.

3) Yes, now it can be called role-fishing, but considering that you only called it role-fishing AFTER I asked, I am calling bull shit on it and I am asking you nicely to claim. And ya know what, get me lynched. When I flip town, you'll be claiming tomorrow.

4&5) No, you're scummy, here's why, read it WITH your ISO. It's not a hard task. I promise you.

Again there IS a case, and when I flip town, people will start to realize how smart I was and you will be lynched next. Is that a fair trade mr.scum?

6) Hmm... read the thread. I did already respond to that when SOMEONE ELSE asked for it, because with you, you're looking for differences so you can shrug them off and say that it's still not a case. I've seen it before, and guess who does it? If you guessed scum, you're right
And I'm not scared, it's just that any townie I've ever made a case on RESPONDED TO AND EVEN DISPROVED MY POINTS IN ISO. If you refuse to do this you are SCUM

7) Really? I haven't? Again, read and the answer will be shown to you.

8) Uhm... no. I have never heard of anyone ever saying "if I didn't state my reasons it's role-related" that's straight up stupid. If you don't want people asking, don't say it. Since you said it, I asked, that is NEVER role-fishing. Now again, this whole argument is bullshit because you're LYING.

9) holyfuckingshit a role pm that says something. Noooo it can't be.
Anyways, I thought your reasons were because of YOUR role-pm. How does me asking about your reasons that are based off the SAMPLE pm = role-fishing. Didn't I call bullshit? Oh wait, I was right.

10) It is now obvious I was not role-fishing when I asked you what I asked, try harder.

11) The ISO is the quotes, and the points are throughout the thread. again, READ. THE. THREAD.

But you probably will still keep saying that I'm scum because I'm actually scumhunting, which is more than I can say for quite a few of you. I'm getting tired of games where people don't read the game so you know what? Lynch me. And I suggest that when I flip town, you look at CKD, Prof. Guppy, and yabbaguy, you'll find all the scum in that group (2 if there's only 2 and 3 if there's 3)

[Xite91]

lol. do you know a better way to address specific points in a quote?

If your points are solid, you don't need big font sizes to get the point across.

Notice how that last sentence is supposed to resonate in your mind, and all without fancy fonts.

This is only true if people are reading

[Xite91]

@xite if CKD can answer the above question in such a way that makes sense I would say your original reasons for voting him, are wrong, not scummy, but wrong.

Considering how many times he asked, and the other points to why I think he's scum, I don't believe that just the answer to that question makes him town.

[Xite91]

lol. do you know a better way to address specific points in a quote?

If your points are solid, you don't need big font sizes to get the point across.

Notice how that last sentence is supposed to resonate in your mind, and all without fancy fonts.

This is only true if people are reading

I read that, and I already told you it was horribly offensive to assume that because people don't agree with you, that they're just not reading.

No, I'm assuming that because people ask me questions I already answered repeatedly, they aren't reading.

[Xite91]

Xite: claim or die.
you are definitely scum, and I want you dead. I think the only thing that can save you right now is a really good claim.

Then hammer me. Oh wait, you can't. You have no place telling me to claim.

(iPhone post)

xite now throwing me onto his scumlist is

baseless

retaliation. Will read the rest of his remarks later.

I lol'd at bolded. Baseless? How is being ignored and then run up on a bandwagon and getting pissed because honestly, I don't see many people scumhunting and they're asking me for my points that I've made multiple points then posting ALL of those points baseless? Seriously, hammer me, I'm tired of this game.

I'm very attracted to hammering. Seriously. Claim, Xite; and as Tasky said, it better be an awesome claim or ===[] (from me) will occur, and I can get kicks from holding a ===[] which looks so sexy.

k. Hammering for the sake of hammering. Do it. And again, when I flip town, look at the three I suggested. There are definitely scum there.
I'm not claiming, because my claim will only get me lynched anyways, because people will call it a fake claim. It's a lose-lose and I'm tired of trying to defend myself to lynch-happy people that won't listen.

[Xite91]

huh... giving up already?

lynch, lynch, lynch

I feel that at this point, my flip will help you guys better than me sitting here arguing for another 10 pages, and like I said, I'm tired or arguing anyways, because what's the point of doing so when no one's listening anyway?

[Xite91]

you could make a nice

CONCISE

(!!!) post of your case(s). if you really are town, there is absolutely no reason to give up now.
I know you have posted a lot of stuff, but should there be good points, they are invisible in the load of repetitions and noise surrounding them.
clearing your cases up, not posting lot of things, not repeating what you've said. just posting the main arguments in a structured way will help.

your resigning attitude really doesn't help avoiding your lynch here. it's obvious your case isn't understood/accepted by us, if you really are town, you should try to make it clear. there is no use in your death (should you really flip town) if your point isn't clear to us and if we can't use it.

Tasky I know how to play the game. And I showed you all of my points in that huge post. And yes, I'm town, but I'm really frustrated with this game because I feel I'm onto something and no matter how "clear and concise" my points are, I will still be lynched today because people have it set in their mind that I am scum, and even when I flip town, you guys will probably not even go after who I say because they will say that I didn't know what I was talking about and you'll probably believe them. But, like I said, at this point, it would probably be better for me to just get lynched, because when I flip town, you guys will have plenty to go off of for tomorrow and hopefully you will go after CKD, yabbaguy, and guppy. I can guarantee that there are scum there.
And also, I would really love for someone to go through and find all this "noise" I'm throwing out, because I was scumhunting and barely anything else. You want noise? Check out CKD and guppy.

[Xite91]

I knew Oman was up to something and the game wasn't over when he started asking about PR's good job town not telling him
Also, Damn, sorry CKD, I should have stuck with my 4th tell