Ladies Night -- Game Over

[UncertainKitten]

/confirm

...how the hell did he actually find 15 girls on this site? I was betting it'd take him longer ^-^;. Well, fortunately I died recently in a game so it's not as bad.

[UncertainKitten]

Vote Red Coyote

He knows who the scum are and the fiend won't TELL us! Further, he stands out from the crowd for OBVIOUS REASONS! Therefore, he must be scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@Hoopla: It's more accurate to say that I read as obv town within a couple posts if I'm town, and tend to be considered null as scum, in my experience. Perhaps it's different to you, but that's the trend I've noticed as of late.

I'll also note that any recent scum meta I have is rather awkward because of the circumstances surrounding it. I don't believe I've been caught out by sheer scumhunting recently, and it's been more often things outside my control. Well, actually, zoraster's bastard game was my fault for using a terrible strategy. Another game where I've flipped scum in is ongoing but also had things that were indeed outside my control. I still did rather valiantly I think given the circumstances. I can't think of much more in the way of scum meta, though I have some third party as well.

Anyway, probably also of note is I tend to be polarizing, but as of late I've also mostly stuck to my mod vote until something piques my interest, which can take as many as 10 pages depending on how long it takes for someone to show scum intent.

So far it's all chaff.

[UncertainKitten]

@Mod: You forgot my vote for Red Coyote!

It is very important it is counted for later game wagon analysis!

Singling me out, huh? How discriminatory!

[UncertainKitten]

The rating scale ruse...
is a distraction.

No, seriously, it serves no purpose, either in the sense of town OR scum intent. I see no reason to humor Haylen in this endeavor since, quite frankly, you and Hoopla's back and forth has been useless chaff that has been completely uninteresting and at some points a headache to read.

[UncertainKitten]

Paws has just made an interesting comment that mildly bugs me. Minor scum intent detected, since that's the kind of post I would make as scum to be "here" without actually contributing.

I'd appreciate something more concrete soon, Paws.

Also, hilarity detected as I made the above comment before reading esurio's...

interesting

post . Well, OK, it's not interesting at all, it's just over speculation too early in the game with strong town intent.

Sucrose shows a lot of theory promise. Null intended post though.

camn's comment towards Haylen bugs me since it feels like thin justification for a policy lynch. The esurio comment makes things worse.

Huh. Funny, her entire post reeks of scum intent.

Unvote, Vote camn

Page 3, not bad ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

It's hard to explain but I'll do my best. There's a lot of things in there that feel to me that they benefit scum. I outlined the obvious policy lynch arguments as bad. The fact she doesn't even back them up with a vote (though supposedly would have, though the timestamp separation does not necessarily imply the truth of that), further implies she wants wiggle room to fall back on likely mislynches for reasons of policy. There's further creation of wiggle room for a collection of null tells regarding Hoopla and Haylen. Finally, there's a reliance on DGB, often a charismatic force no matter what side she's on, to verify a read for her which feels like testing the waters.

Basically, it feels like scum who wants to look productive while creating a massive amount of wiggle room, as well as testing the waters on some more arguable grounds.

Her scum intent is, however, slightly mitigated by the vote she DID end up on. But, for page 3 it's a pretty decent place to start.

[UncertainKitten]

I don't think that's the case ^-^;. I usually get NK'd by N2 or N3, though even then sometimes I make it to lylo, but I don't think I've been N1 NK'd except like once? Maybe twice?

[UncertainKitten]

Glad to see someone sees what I see ^-^. Feel like voting her at this juncture? It's good for wagon analysis.

[UncertainKitten]

Why Hoopla over camn? Just curious ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

I'm saying scum are slightly more likely to support them since sheer probability indicates that any policy lynch will be town, so it's free mislynches. However, if it had just been the policy lynches, I'd likely have just been "wellp, your theory sucks but I don't have much else to say about you".

But there was more that just bugged me.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Wait, how would I know you support policy lynches? Have I even played with you recently?

[UncertainKitten]

@Apok: I'll remind you that townies need to lead others to get lynches as well . Mild hypocrisy in your post, interested in seeing where it leads.

@chauchau: Never said she made sense, just that she's posting with town intent . The last line in your post is something I observed as well.

@camn: Intriguing post. Unfortunately I only accuse you of one such "tell" in your playbook, and actually use some of those tactics myself. Well, I guess hypothetically two, but I would maintain there are different ways to go about buddying based on intent.

The Paws wagon is interesting. Not particularly one I disagree with, but not particularly one I feel will lead to scum. I will expand on this if necessary.

@Hoopla/chauchau: Both of you appear to have ignored my town intent comment about her. Now now, such carelessness is how scum will deceive you.

Oh, my, the carelessness is my amazing self getting confused for Haylen.

How disturbing.

@Paws: But there's a fair amount to comment on at this point. Several people have already posted with scum intent. Further, Day 1 is when the scum slip the most, it's just not something you can generally extrapolate until you have some flips. So why are you so guarded with your secrets? That could very well have some strong scum intent if it maintains, in which case I must reassess my characterization of your wagon.

@chauchau: Hmm? Perhaps I missed something. Why Snow_Bunny?

esurio is at least giving us some of that good D1 content you have to revisit later in the game ^-^.

So, with me caught up, I'm ambivalent about the Paws wagon. There are a few interesting comments that require follow ups I've asked for. camn still feels like the best vote to me.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh dear, we have that sort of situation. D1, while not exactly the most productive day here, still has more meaning, and generally much can be found from it, especially later game. Part of it is because we have longer to talk. It's not like we have a 48 hour deadline.

I would implore you to reconsider your stance on D1 randomness, and possibly research a few other games around here to see the general procedures we use.

[UncertainKitten]

It was me overstating my importance to the town .

Also, carelessness my dear Haylen

1 Mafia Godfather
2 Mafia Goons
VS
3 Town Power Roles (Randomly selected from the pool of: Cop, Doc, Nurse, Deputy, Mason, Vigilante, Jailkeeper, Roleblocker)
9 Vanilla Townies

There's no SK possibility.

No other issues with Haylen's post.

[UncertainKitten]

Bout time someone had the guts to attack. A shame they have no case.

I mean, seriously, not even going to try to state I have scum intent in any of my posts? Or even claim I have scumtells?

What a pathetic attack ^-^.

Could you elaborate on Hoopla and Snow_Bunny, or are you just naming names and hoping no one notices?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: to attack me, rather.

[UncertainKitten]

...wait. rereading you're post I stand accused of...not being suspicious.

That...

What?

Do you realize how utterly stupid that sounds? Do you at all? Do...I'm about to cry at how ridiculous that is. You have offended my sense of critical thinking. What the hell?

[UncertainKitten]

So, hey, I'm totally gonna be away for a while. Nothing too significant but probably almost a day.

[UncertainKitten]

cepi is unimpressive. And trying desperately to seem that way.

@Sucrose: First paragraph. Lol no. What's interesting is I said I'd elaborate if asked. Instead of asking you make up some line of bullshit about wishy washy suspicions.

Why?

To the second: Nah, I haven't had a good bout of defending myself as town for awhile here.

And, finally, you just picked three names out of a hat that seemed to have some discussion around them. I'd appreciate it if you actually would admit it when you're making things up.

@chauchau: Wellp, the tone is town in the post I said had town intent. So, I really don't see your point besides splitting hairs. Anyway, if Snow_Bunny actually lurks, that can be dealt with. If she doesn't, then there's no need to try to castigate her for what she

might

do. Are you some sort of thought police?

As for reads, it's a reaction chain. Without starting from a pebble, I can't build the prison I trap scum in.

@camn: Yes, I used to be fl. I don't recall ever playing with you. If I had, it's in the far hazes of memory.
Anyway, interesting affirmation. It's null because I generally say the exact same thing when a wagon starts building on me. Well, I use different words but I won't be a D1 lynch.

Either way, I won't mislynch you, for certain. But if you are scum, I'll extend the same courtesy to you and guarantee your hanging ^-^.

Ah

@camn: Now, now, resorting to such a silly tactic already? That

is

something I often see used as scum. The cute little I have yet to see a case on me.

...when there exists one. I'll even relink it in my next post because I am a kind person. How interesting you cavalierly ignore and have spent a LOT of effort discrediting me in the process with some tough words.

My vote shall be maintained and I'm honestly very wary of whatever person in some strange way deduced camn was town.

DGB is DGB as usual, I find no fault in her posts. (Unfortunately, I rarely do regardless of her alignment)

@camn: This is so ridiculously scummy it's not even funny.
As much as I'd love to get reactions and deductions from it before I play my card, I'll state this case as well. It's a trick question that has no bearing on scumhunting, but DOES allow camn to set up a hypocrisy accusation later when it's not scummy hypocrisy. However, that word tends to get people listening for some odd reason.

@camn: Well, at least we mostly agree on Paws. She needs to post. The only indication of noob town is the fact her experience appears to be swift speed games, hence why I have my eye on her. My offer to elaborate why I'm "avoiding the wagon" stands.

@camn: [[citation needed]]

I enjoy DGB's posting greatly and would consider reviewing Sotty at some point after I've caught up with the internet

K, so, I have tons of problems with camn, but the problem is they read as a defense of Snow_Bunny, who while I have not found fault with her, also have not much of a read on. But I really can't ignore how interestingly camn is setting things up.

So, are you going to add that to the play book so you can discredit another tell? Or do you plan to actually answer things?

[UncertainKitten]

That case you so conveniently ignore because it's inconvenient for you to acknowledge. Sorry to steal your Discredit-Os.

[UncertainKitten]

Still debating. Sucrose feels stupid more than scum at this juncture. Her response to my castigation of her methods will clarify the situation immensely for me and allow me to give you a more solid answer.

Admittedly I really want to cling to camn because her tactics annoy the hell out of me, and are also more beneficial to scum camn than town camn.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, that combined with the silly asking DGB to validate your claims and the silliness of policy lynches. At that point, I will admit, you stood accused more of being silly than particularly scum, though the tone conveyed read scum to me ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Your demonstration was a scummy farce and you know it.

It's the most fucking ludricous pile of bullshit I have ever had the misfortune AND displeasure of having laid eyes upon.

And I've played with a lot of fucking morons who say a lot of ludricous things. I don't think you're a moron.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: My last post was out of line. I don't know what it is but today each successive post I have made has just been more and more angry. Likely the buildup of stupid proposals I've seen in games. I still believe that your "demonstration" is a farce, but there was absolutely no need for the language I used.

As such, I apologize and will try to clean up my language.

[UncertainKitten]

/me facepalms

Paws...

Nah, you know what? Screw it, camn can get lynched later, I highly doubt she'll stop providing evidence.

Unvote, Vote Paws

[UncertainKitten]

@Sucrose: First, learn to read.

Second, I rarely get mislynched. I get a good wagon on me D1, I repel it because I'm pretty clearly not scum, and from that wagon we catch the scum.

I don't get pissed at cases, I get pissed at REALLY STUPID LOGIC.

You have engaged in the latter. I love how you're attempting to twist my words.

And now let's move to the scumtell portion. First of all, scumtells are a really stupid way to catch scum. All you end up doing is trying to quantify a series of things that end up implicating...one of the most active players because they've had the highest chance of doing these vague things. Scum INTENT is how you catch scum. I'll give you an easy question since you can actually probably answer this one intelligently.

How does it benefit Scum UK to have gotten pissed off at your incredibly stupid logic?

Maybe, but her behavior is scummy, and even if she is town I judge her to be the most expendable of any of us. Also, pressure has been known to turn coal into diamonds

EEK! NO! THIS! BAD!

@Apok: You're going to have to link the post since I can't find it in my ISO. I noticed a mild hypocrisy IIRC.

@S_B: Earlier you asked me about Sucrose. Part of her post reads as just incredibly naive and possibly stupid, other parts of her post read with scum intent. I'm still not sure I'd vote her per se.

[UncertainKitten]

Remind me to reread camn in ISO when I'm not in a lazy mood. She's said some interesting things that may cause me to revise my read.

[UncertainKitten]

@esurio: Sorry, that's for clearing someone as town. That requires more clearance than you currently have. I'm fine with elaborating on interesting things that are scummy, but not interesting things that are townie unless I consider them to be "safe"

I do tend to at least elaborate which way the word "interesting" is making me lean. If I have failed in that endeavor, I apologize and you can ask me that much at least for any of my posts.

[UncertainKitten]

You're the one trying to use scumtells.

Anyway, one thread that ENTIRELY DESTROYS your fucktardery.

Anyway, which two things are you talking about?

[UncertainKitten]

Far too many people do, Sucrose. You act like people are actually smart. They aren't. I've seen far too much stupidity, in this game alone, to assume that. I've engaged in far too much stupidity, across my mafia career, to assume that.

And I told you what I was upset about. YOUR LOGIC WAS FUCKTARDED AND STILL IS.

Also, what you've

personally seen

is one instance where it worked. Whoop
de
mother
fucking
do.

You do realize how HOPELESSLY small a sample size that is for your assertion, right?

[UncertainKitten]

I'm slightly opposed to lynching before replacement, but not a whole lot really. I guess I'd like to get more information from that player slot. If they are town, the replacement might save themselves. If they are scum, they might leave behind connections that can be used. Paws has given us absolutely nothing in either direction.

[UncertainKitten]

esurio brings up a good point I overlooked. I am now officially completely neutral on the Paws thing. I think that a replacement might provide more information, but I'm not really opposed to her lynch whatsoever.

[UncertainKitten]

I'm going to have to say that were I modding, and for some reason being incredibly lax on posting after requesting replacement, I still would not count any vote made by the replace outter because ANY vote is destablizing from a player who shouldn't be there, regardless of their alignment or role.

It has an objective, real effect on the game.

[UncertainKitten]

But it's okay to talk about suspects? I agree with DGB - one of the three Paws listed is likely to be scum, if Paws is scum. That's a piece of pretty handy information that has been leaked because Red didn't tell her to shut up. And then Red not telling her to shut up after that also makes you wonder about the importance of what she said then. That might actually be a town tell.

Well, first, it's not objectively useful. It's just words. While we subjectively use words throughout the game, it doesn't actually have an impact on the game. Rather, from a modding perspective. Further, saying something either way would lead to the speculation that you've launched into. RC is right to not touch it albeit he drop more hints. But when a vote is involved, that has a significant objective impact on the game.

Regardless, this is as much conjecture as what you've gone into, I'm merely just weighing in how I think it would work, using my own modding experience.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, it appears my early prediction was right about the Paws wagon. Unfortunately I let myself get swept into it nonetheless. At some point I'll take a look at the motivations on the wagon and see who had the most scum intent in lynching the useless one.

[UncertainKitten]

You don't (often) get a majority on town D1 without at least one scum. I guarantee there is one scum there, likely a goon, because as you said it was a bad wagon to be on.

Admittedly, 2/6 is a lot better than 1/7. I'm content to look off wagon for now.

[UncertainKitten]

Scary fast wagons imply to me that scum are more likely on. It's easier to jump in with the momentum.

[UncertainKitten]

Analyzing newbie games would skew the result. Intent is less clear because most of the players are less clear on how to play their alignment.

Either way, looking at a subset of players for awhile helps me concentrate and then usually mass clear once I've found the requisite scum in the thing.

[UncertainKitten]

Off wagon is Sucrose and possibly Snow_Bunny. I don't have a good bead on Snow_Bunny, to be honest, since as I remember she tends to play...um...like this.

I should probably cross reference Umineko mafia and this game.

To be fair, I also have to review Sucrose a bit, but I'm not entirely sure she's acting as dumb as she was trying to lead me to believe, and the names out of a hat trick she pulled earlier was scummy no matter how much potential stupidity could explain it.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, sorry,

Vote Sucrose

I should have done that in the last post.

Cut by Hoopla: DGB is interesting. Not entirely sure what to make of her. I rarely am. I'm not entirely sure I've often seen this barrage of "X is town" from DGB before whatsoever.

camn said some interesting things that lead me to believe she's just irritating, not necessarily scum.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, hey, also of note, she never did answer my riposte about how absolutely TERRIBLE her single game sample size was of the prevalence of angriness.

[UncertainKitten]

@Hoopla: There's a post where I say I should ISO her to check something because she makes a post that changes my mind about her. I'm sure you can find it.

And, no, she's been irritating as hell and mostly been posting a lot of baiting shit that does nothing to further the town's goals. But, she at some point did something town like so it would be unwise to persue that lynch since it would, quite likely, be a mislynch.

Anyway, Sucrose has just been moronic for the most part, and scummy when she hasn't been. She claimed that my angry outbursts were somehow more likely to come from scum based on one game where a scum had an angry outburst. When I pointed out how stupidly small her sample was I never got a reply.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, whatever, fact remains the hat trick bugs me and while my opinions are open to revision, you'll need to show a fair amount of town intent to convince me other wise.

[UncertainKitten]

Haylen's playing IA II Haylen. Trouble is she was an SK there. But, her carelessness at the least rings true to me. Whether it helps with her alignment is a completely different story. I'd have to reread her at some point and sort through a significant amount of chaff.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...I think I want a votecount on this page to check a trend. If it exists I think I'll be brought around to the Snow_Bunny wagon.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...that was both more enlightening and more frustrating than I could ever have hoped for. But, it was helpful, thank you Fenchurch. Assuming that's correct...well, the trend isn't as strong as I thought. But, I think I'll take a chance here

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow_bunny

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, sorry. Thought the Haylen wagon was cropping up as a counterwagon, in which case I'd be pretty sure Snow_Bunny was scum.

[UncertainKitten]

You made a mistake in your chart, Oja. Sucrose is green. That's incorrect. You apparently haven't read her very well.

[UncertainKitten]

She started being willfully uncooperative. It went from newb town to being obstinate for no reason other than to obstruct town. It seemed like she was scum that didn't want to give us anything. At first I figured she was just a new player who played on quicker sites where random D1s often often happened. But, her continued obstinence in the face of attack implied she just didn't want to give away anything to me.

The second is blatant misrep and you know it Sotty. Paws HERSELF gives us nothing. The wagon is useful.

...and the THIRD is misrep as well. I was neutral on the claim thing.

I think DumbassSotty is a high probabilty.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, when you have actual evidence wake me up. Cause I have no idea what thread you are reading with this silly "making a big deal of it" thing.

So, anyway, does anyone who's NOT a fucktard have anything interesting to say? Because quite honestly I'm getting sick of the stupid and it's really demoralizing me in this game. I mean, seriously, I've never seen such BAD logic before. Or maybe I just haven't recognized it. But, either way, it's pretty annoying to see people so full of shit their eyes are brown.

This Haylen/Apok/Snow_Bunny clusterfuck is practically impossible to sort out without one of their flips. I'm placing my bet on Snow_bunny, because I think I can determine a lot of wagon intent after I have her flip. I also figure she's slightly more likely to be scum than everyone else here with the possible exception of Sucrose.

I've been reading but it's just been glazing my eyes over, so I can't imagine anything of incredible current import has occurred.

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB: Why does cepi need to die? Or is it for reasons...ah...not necessarily related to cepi being mafia aligned?

I understand your logic, though I'm curious to see a succinct summary of what Apok stands accused of. If it already exists feel free to link me.

[UncertainKitten]

Any chance that for someone as...relaxed as myself you could provide links ^-^?

[UncertainKitten]

Awesome. Do we got a jacuzzi or something? Cause we should relax this thing up like it was no thing.

[UncertainKitten]

Hoopla indeed speaks great sense .

[UncertainKitten]

Snow_bunny's "case" is a bunch of lulz I really don't feel like answering since it ignores about a bajillion things and is just flailing.

I mean, seriously, look at how much fucking reinterpretation she does that is FLAT NOT TRUE.

OMG, reading it closer I'm actually getting PISSED OFF at how fucking illogical it is. If you think that something THAT FUCKING STUPID will get me lynched, you can go die, Snow_Bunny.

[UncertainKitten]

No, you know what? let's lay this to rest. The Paws behavior explains itself in the quotes, and you're REALLY FUCKING STUPID to try to paint it otherwise.

Oh, and then she ignores the fact that I addendumed by saying she was playing like SK in IA II. FURTHER, she absolutely ignores the fact a counterwagon was forming to hers.

So, her entire house of cards, built on the weakest foundations of fucktardery and dumbassery possible, quite simply falls to pieces in the face of actual facts.

Please, Snow_Bunny, play THIS game, not the bullshit one you've made up in your silly, insignificant, absolutely miniscule mind, that I am amazed has enough intelligence to breathe, if you post SHIT like that.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, the "sudden shift" that actually does cite a post that changed my read. Yep, keep making things up please.

[UncertainKitten]

...wait, really? Fuck, I got my wires crossed, you're right. In that case, I got one point wrong, but I'll also state that the only reliable knowledge I have of S_B's meta is her playing as scum in Umineko mafia. But, that said, it was indiscretionary of me to say she "plays like she always does", since I hardly have a measure of that.

And let me put it this way. I was shaking as I typed that, I was so mad. I got over it fairly quickly but I mean, DAMN, that made my brain hurt with his stupid.

As for the counterwagon logic, I think I got sloppy there. Basically, the way the Haylen wagon was building read as a serious effort to deflect from Snow_Bunny, since a lot of people were suspecting her, and I assumed more votes. The votechart didn't bear it out as strongly as I liked, though I also was including camn's prior Snow_Bunny vote. The Apok wagon I'm still trying to make sense of. My gut for some reason says she's town but we'll get a lot of information from her lynch, but I should probably look at the case before I get too far into it.

But, yeah, I think it was more attitudes I was reading as opposed to votes, and there was a slight indication in the votecount I ran with. Confirmation bias, etc.

[UncertainKitten]

All that said, Snow_bunny still has it way the fuck wrong.

[UncertainKitten]

It's not ad hom if it's true.

[UncertainKitten]

Of course Sotty would agree, she's been saying stupid stuff all game too. You two should make a movie together. You can call it Dumb and Dumber.

Oh wait, I think that's taken.

And Apok chimes in with nonsensicalness. Just what is this...imaginary line where things magically become scummy? Please, do tell.

I think I'll look at what DGB was saying sometime tonight.

[UncertainKitten]

Hai hai. I just get very irritated when I'm catching flack for reasons that really don't make sense. As far as I can tell, you have to basically completely misinterpret a lot of things, willfully or otherwise, to at all come to the conclusions they have.

[UncertainKitten]

We might not be lynching me, but I'd like people's attention to be focused in the RIGHT direction rather than wasting time on silliness. The more time spent accusing me of things that flat aren't true is the less time spent scumhunting.

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB: Have been. Sucrose, Snow_Bunny, and ??? are the scum.

Apok is possible, but I'm uncertain on that. If she flips town, Snow_Bunny is certainly scum.

@Ojanen: But my corrections of them still invalidate Snow_Bunny's bullshitery.

@Haylen: Well, it's more I'm willing to admit when I've screwed up. It happens pretty often offsite. But, that's uncorrobatable. So, I'll let it slide. I don't see it as necessarily scummy.

Well, Hoopla, I hope you'll at least do me the dignity of a case tomorrow that actually makes sense ^-^.

@Haylen: You really should know better. I'm not pissed at the vote. I'm pissed at the terrible reasoning.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Also, someone on the Apok wagon will be scum. (If she flips town). Honestly, even if she flips scum there's probably scum there. It's a matter of position though.

[UncertainKitten]

I'm going to say I am pretty much CERTAIN that at least one, and probably 2 of the "top three" are town. I'm also pretty certain we can ferret out which is which after one of them flips. I think Snow_Bunny is more likely the play, but the Apok wagon will at least help us find the NOT obvious scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@Apok: With more than 12 alive, the claim or die threshold becomes 2, at least according to Tar, and I see the logic.

@Snow_Bunny: You're derpiness is still showing. If you at all knew me you'd be well aware that my reaction signified exactly what it said on the tin. Your case was shit. I notice you don't even try to fix the points I effortlessly destroyed.

Die now.

S_W probably should fully catch up...

[UncertainKitten]

I fixed them. They still counter her terrible points.

You can keep asserting they don't but kindly, I'd like you to prove it. Actually, I'd prefer Snow_Bunny prove it. It's interesting you white knight for her, but I ascribe it merely to wanting to "knock me down a peg"

[UncertainKitten]

Regardless, the mood at the time of the vote behavior still implies to me Haylen was a counterwagon to Snow_Bunny.

At any rate, at this point could you let S_B do her own work? I understand what you're saying, but sometimes the reaction of the player in question is helpful as well ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Interesting, what with one death and all.

Well, just to make it clear, if there is a vig to counterclaim

DO NOT DO SO!

Proper procedure is to vig the falseclaimer. I figure you'd know that, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

[UncertainKitten]

When I feel like it I'll read camn in ISO. I wouldn't mind reassessing the situation concerning her, since there has to be SOME reason I thought she had scum intent at first, and I've been in the habit of second guessing myself.

[UncertainKitten]

I actually don't hate the case. Will do a quick read in ISO but am not against the camn bandwagon at all from what I've read.

[UncertainKitten]

camn's first serious post is still hilariously scummy.

That little policy lynch double talk was chaff.

Fuck, half her posts read as defusions of ANY attack on her. Tricky to use this as a tell though, since, guess what I just did in the past two pages? But, there's a difference I note. She's asserting nothing she stands accused of is scummy. I assert nothing I stand accused of is true.

...really, I'm not finding a lot of town intent, but I'm not sure I'm looking for it as closely as I'd like being so strongly influenced by the cases already made. But, I do note camn seems all over the place, and it often coincides with the mood of the town.

I can't really shake the feeling that she's bussing Snow_bunny hard, but we can determine that after her flip.

Unvote, Vote camn

[UncertainKitten]

^^^^^^^
RRRRRRRRNGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Did I hear a chainsaw? I think I heard a chainsaw.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, we'll see who's right then, won't we DGB. Camn needs to die.

Snow_Bunny is also acceptable, but less so.

[UncertainKitten]

Good thing it's rather fair, huh?

[UncertainKitten]

What questions?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, the questions I missed until just now cause I didn't know they were there.

Why is the case stupid again cepi? I don't think you adequately explained that?

Why is Haylen scummy again? I don't think you adequately explained that?

Snow_Bunny is scummy, camn is more likely to be lynched, and is pretty scummy herself.

[UncertainKitten]

Out of curiosity, what happened to the fact you "can't get mislynched"? When I'm boasting like that as town, it doesn't go away when a wagon actually forms on me...

There are other flaws but that sticks out to me.

[UncertainKitten]

Psychological aversion to lying when push comes to shove.

Admittedly, this is fairly unreliable, so I don't really try to use it to push things often. I think the rest of the case on you works well enough.

[UncertainKitten]

@camn: There are flaws in her case. there are also some rather resounding blows. Ojanen I believe reinforces the case quite nicely.

Also, I'll need to check some things but I think Sucrose is claiming scum with her absence. Need to make sure she's only been ignoring this game though.

[UncertainKitten]

Nevermind the Sucrose thing. She hasn't posted on site since the 29th. She's been ONSITE last on the 31st, and I'd like to think she'd like to post but..yeah.

[UncertainKitten]

Why yes Snow_Bunny, I find it funny we've had about 6 major wagons this game, and I've been on three of them, with mostly well defined reasons for being on each of them.

Last I checked 50% wasn't all. Funny how things work, eh?

@Hoopla: More interesting is DGB's presence has been defined by weakly poking the wagon saying it's bad. Is that unusual?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: That is, not heavily fighting the wagon, just making a couple comments and then fading away.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, happy scumday Snow_Bunny.

Too bad your last post is super inaccurate!

[UncertainKitten]

X

[UncertainKitten]

What's intriguing is the return of this sense of not being able to be lynched after I mention it. Curiouser and curiouser.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, Apok. You have to shoot tonight. It'll prove your role. Of course, if you get shot because you fakeclaimed vig, that solves itself as well.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, the good news is the nature of her claim and the set up means...if she's not dead tomorrow, and there was only one kill, odds are she's lying.

[UncertainKitten]

If Haylen isn't vig'ed, Apok is lynched. No questions asked.

If ANY vig occurs this would be the most fucktarded thing you could do.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, this becomes easy. Apok's confirmed. Haylen's death confirmed.

Guess who's left out of our cream of the crop?

Vote: Snow_Bunny

I believe I said one of those three would be scum. And ONLY one. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, also, DGB isn't dead yet. She's also been having some difficulties with being right. She's someone to reread. I'll probably do that later. You all should too.

[UncertainKitten]

Then PROVE them wrong. That'd be the best thing you could do! Show me why you are town!

[UncertainKitten]

I'm saying that you aren't above suspicion dear. If I were certain you were scum, I'd currently be voting you. I merely see the need to extol those who might be having some schoolgirl crushes on you to clear their mind and consider you a suspect now .

[UncertainKitten]

Hi Hoopla. Do you know how to talk, or are vote tags suddenly the only language you speak?

Hmm...not sure what to make of Ojanen. Not sure if I want to make anything of her at this time, to be honest.

[UncertainKitten]

Hoopla perhaps might be onto something. Interested to see how DGB handles this.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, Bunny is the scum in the second group ^-^.

I'd have to assume Sotty is the scum in the first. But for some reason I'm not feeling that. Much as I'm loathe to admit it...the Paws wagon might be all town. I'll have to look at Sotty at some point to be sure.

At any rate, Ojanen's revelation kinda makes sense, though I think I agree with DGB about ~*~imagination~*~

[UncertainKitten]

Snow_Bunny'd be better. Admittedly, if she gets shot instead, I'd wouldn't be unhappy.

[UncertainKitten]

Who are the other two people mentioned in your role PM?

[UncertainKitten]

Sadly? So you

want

to be scum, huh >=[?

This is a serious affair.

/me nods sagely.

[UncertainKitten]

Izzy: Apok's confirmed. There is no role combination that allows for two deaths and Apok being scum.

Why this issue didn't get attention is because we can actually read the first post.

[UncertainKitten]

You do realize that any vig would be fucking STUPID to not shoot Apok, right? Especially when I

directly told them to because it was common sense?

My elaboration would be that the vig issue is pretty damn easy to sort out at night. Given Scum Apok + Vig, you get Scum Apok shot in the face. Given Scum Apok fakeclaiming vig, you'd have one kill N2, and thusly lynch scum Apok.

There was, quite literally, NO WAY for scum Apok to get away with the vig claim after Night 2.

I'm not sure how you are missing this?

[UncertainKitten]

Again, I don't understand how this has

any point

besides wasting time and not doing any actual scumhunting.

You're faking activity. Stop it.

[UncertainKitten]

If you'll read the rest of the game, you'll notice I have a penchant for getting pissed at stupidity. Not to be so blunt but, hey, you're being pretty stupid right now ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

However, out of curiosity, just what do you expect to find outside of the fact that the handling of vig claim was essentially common sense?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, that'd be cause you're stupid, but it's ok ^-^.

Also, insight's not gonna cut it.

What

insight? It's easy to claim "reaction fishing", but it's funny how often people don't know what they are actually looking for.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, you see where my name is? You can put DizzyIzzy there instead and be right :O!

Hoopla's been giving me weird vibes but I haven't went for any confirmation to be honest. It's been hard to be motivated in this game to be honest. But whatev.

If you're wrong about Hoopla, it's probably Sotty.

Snow Bunny is and has been obv scum for most of this game and I was stupid to ever thing she wasn't.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, too much weight on the Paws wagon. Who are you trying to fool, DGB?

[UncertainKitten]

Seems closer to right. Sucrose is still scum .

[UncertainKitten]

So, basically, I'm damned if I'm right. That's lovely. What happens if both Sucrose AND Snow_Bunny are scum, huh?

[UncertainKitten]

Uh, yeah, she almost completely wasn't here D2 IIRC. Which basically means you're missing an entire day of votes. Knew SOMETHING was weird.

[UncertainKitten]

^

Scum trying to basically set it up so that no matter how anyone replies, she can set someone up for the fall with their reply.

And yes, you do ask questions. You ask questions that actually have a bearing on the game. Not questions that have obvious fucking answers.

[UncertainKitten]

OH! Hey, I was misreading the entire time, DGB. Now I get what you are saying. Not that Sucrose/me are scum together but it's (one of) Hoopla/SB and (one of) me/Sucrose

I can easily accept that.

[UncertainKitten]

Hi cepi. Why are you a fucktard?

[UncertainKitten]

Nah, you're just plain stupid. Honestly, I'm half tempted to just get lynched at this point so I can FINALLY be rid of all your fucktarderies. I mean, seriously, I see all these chaff accusations of me WITH NO BASIS IN REALITY. They are the STUPIDEST fucking things I have EVER had the misfortune of seeing in a mafia game.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

[UncertainKitten]

/me sighs

It's probably futile, but could you ACTUALLY produce a logical case on me? please? something that makes sense? Something that MIGHT make me not pissed off? Something that's not stupid?

[UncertainKitten]

@DI: Then stop asking fucktarded questions. The answer, has ALREADY BEEN EXPLAINED. Because, quite honestly, there was NO FUCKING NEED to question Apok's decision.

But ask what you want. I really don't care anymore. Just actually START FUCKING SCUMHUNTING when you're done, ok? Is that a fair deal? You get to waste time, and I actually get some scumhunting out of you. It's win win!

@SB: Yes, yes, you keep saying that. What did I say about proving it? I'd like you to get on that. I am serious.

[UncertainKitten]

I've told you it already. So you aren't even reading my posts?

She's scum. She's been scum since she's been Sucrose. DizzyIzzy is also scum. Sorry your buddy chose to open her replace in status by asking stupid questions that fake activity.

And generally you prove you're town by being townie. Start helping the town. Start scumhunting. Start trying.

[UncertainKitten]

...hmm

I'm going to read Sotty in ISO first, ok?

[UncertainKitten]

...wait, nevermind, I see what you're doing. I'll still ISO Sotty but here you go

Unvote, Vote Sotty

[UncertainKitten]

Ugh, walls walls walls. I can't draw anything from her posts right now because my eyes glaze over after the first 100 words. I'll try to take Sotty in more bite sized pieces. But god damn, does the word SUCCINCT mean anything to anyone?

[UncertainKitten]

See, the big problem with your terrible posting, cepi, is the fact that you indict me PURELY based on Snow_Bunny's actions, and refuse to build a case on ME. I'd suggest you do that if you want to catch scum, rather than hypothesizing INCORRECTLY in a vacuum. That's how you learn to not be stupid ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Hi cepi. You're not reading the game, are you? If you were reading the game, you know that I have a marked preference for a Snow_Bunny lynch. But, DGB is doing something I approve of, so I've acquiesced with her current request.

Please read the fucking game now, please? Cause I've been voting Snow_Bunny since nearly the start of the day. I switched on DGB's request because I think it will help decipher who the scum are more certainly.

But, hey, we agree on one thing.

Snow_Bunny is scum.

She needs to die soon. But we also need more vote activity before I switch to her if I understand what DGB is doing correctly.

[UncertainKitten]

We need snow_Bunny lynched though eventually!

[UncertainKitten]

Well, you see, while I might not be certain, it's still quite LIKELY I know what she's doing. And even if she's not doing what I think she's doing, GUESS WHAT!? I can do what I think she's doing just as easily and thank her for the idea .

Further, Sotty isn't THAT bad a vote, Snow_Bunny is just better.

How the fuck do you dont want me to think you're a fucktard?

[UncertainKitten]

Then what of Bunny's contradiction just now, DGB?

[UncertainKitten]

Aaand I'm back. No reread yet but looking quickly at cepi's argument, I took a look at this:

Actually, upon reading cepi's case, it occurs to me that UK made no posts between day start and Snow's. Which posts made you feel UK was more town, precisely?

The ones at the end of past day. When camn's wagon began to form and end.

Looking back, post 562

Too bad you're scum in this game and you'll have to be lynched!
But thanks! ^_^

Clearly at this point she's not feeling more town on UK.
UK's only posts after that are these:

Oh, Apok. You have to shoot tonight. It'll prove your role. Of course, if you get shot because you fakeclaimed vig, that solves itself as well.

Well, the good news is the nature of her claim and the set up means...if she's not dead tomorrow, and there was only one kill, odds are she's lying.

If Haylen isn't vig'ed, Apok is lynched. No questions asked.

If ANY vig occurs this would be the most fucktarded thing you could do.

SB is not telling the truth about the reason she switched stances, that much is clear. I don't think I'm missing anything major in these 3 pretty self-evident posts.
S_B, explain.
Won't lend my vote to anything before the reread cepi, sorry. (Hi sotty, I already know what you are typing.)

Ojanen outlines it well. This is a more scummy contradiction because I think it's trying to push cepi's conclusions, so that even if she gets lynched, she'll at least secure my mislynch.

[UncertainKitten]

Rather impressive. Why can't other people post like you, Hoopla!

...as much as I want to see someone switch votes to one of the three DGB mentioned, since I think we can pull some information from it, the fact that my vote will obviously be leaving Sotty as soon as I see that vote kinda weakens the chances of Sotty being voted I think, and therefore I'm kinda coloring the results by accident...

I think I'll switch to Snow_Bunny

Unvote, Vote Snow_Bunny

This is L-2

Cut by Snow_Bunny: And DizzyIzzy is your partner.

Intriguingly enough, I also think that Sotty might be your third and you're just trying to keep things even in the soft bussing/soft protection department.

Hmm...or perhaps just protecting Izzy and agreeing with partner DGB.

ARGH, this sucks, we have two out of three but we have one hell of a choice for the last one...

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB:

Not Voting (5) (DizzyIzzyB13 - Snow White - Apokalyptika - DrippingGoofball - Ojanen)

Is that an error?

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, I checked in ISO after I said that and saw you haven't unvoted. How disturbing.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, best to wait for responses to the claim. I've already formulated some revisions to my theory as to who's scum though.

[UncertainKitten]

So...obviously scum would NEVER tell the truth ever if they were fakeclaiming cop, right? Please think things through before you say them, Apok. Please?

[UncertainKitten]

I'm going to ignore all you're D1 questions, Miyu ^-^.

They're irrelevant .

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...

I'll be honest, I could EASILY see where that post is softclaiming her result and consistent with her behaviors. Note that her scum read of me had "diminished" somehow. But didn't go entirely away because she's worried about the godfather (Hmm...wouldn't it be godmother in this game ?). I'm not entirely sure why you're so quick to jump to conclusions that don't QUITE work like that, DGB.

All that said I'm still ambivalent about the claim.

[UncertainKitten]

I am either vanilla, or a blocker targeting SB N1, or a jk targeting SB or DGB N1.

[UncertainKitten]

- UK. I hope your arrogance has lessened, considering that Camn has flipped TOWN. Especially considering your RAGE from "poor logic". The entire spiel on Camn, and how the wagon is forming is complete BS. So from now on, I will direct your RAGE posts about "poor logic" to the trashbin - as they will be nothing but hypocrisy.

I couldn't give less of a shit ^-^

So, in that entire wall of IIoA, do you plan to actually tell me why I'm scum, or are you just going to snipe at me cause you don't like my attitude?

If it's the latter, please proceed to fuck yourself. I don't think you need

Already told you who the scum are.

Oh right, probably need to fix my vote

Unvote, Vote DizzyIzzy

You know what? I think I'll throw all your posts in the trashbin for being dumb ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

I don't think you need

Um...I have no idea what I was starting to say here but assume it was witty and insulting to you because you're dumb >=[!

Or something like that.
Actually, I think it was something about getting over your own damn self.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, I know what you started off with. But it's just walls of useless words, often used to make you look "pro town" without any real work. Hell, I do it every time I replace in and suddenly get fucktons of town reads on me.

To be fair, I didn't find your slot scummy, so I doubt you're doing this purely for town cred. But, seriously, those wall posts tend to be pretty damn useless, and at best feel good for a slot.

And...where did I go after SB, again? After she claimed? I might have been late in changing my vote but...um...I'm PRETTY sure I dropped her ^-^;

Well, at least I know your scumdar sucks. And I'm sure you'll call me hypocritical for that, but fuck if I care, once again. I think I'll play a game. Everyone you accuse as scum I am immediately going to assume is town. I wonder how long it'll take me to deduce scum that way? Probably not too long.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, the fact of the matter is, you have 2/3 suspects wrong, and likely all 3. Ojanen isn't scum. I'm not scum. DGB I'm still trying to figure out. Her continued insistence SB is scum based on "Contradictions" that really aren't is bugging the hell out of me. Honestly, SB makes SENSE as a cop that investigated me.

So yes, your scumdar. It sucks.

Fix it.

The trouble is, I AM actually relatively open minded to different approaches. Except when those approaches seem just plain SILLY. Sucrose made up a pile of bullshit and picked three names out of a hat, and I'm supposed to accept that as a "different approach"? Cepi is trying to indict me using someone who's alignment isn't even known. That's supposed to be a "different approach" I accept? While I'm sure I've made non justifiable attacks, I'm also sure I've made justified ones as well.

Admittedly, I was unnecessarily rude to you. To be honest, your posts PROBABLY weren't terrible. I just didn't feel like reading walls, especially replacement walls, which often don't contain much of worth outside of a summary of the game. Also, what you DID say about me was pretty damned inflammatory. Fighting fire with fire is certainly not the greatest idea.

I misunderstood who you were responding to regarding SB.

@DGB: Well her slot was fairly obviously not scum. And I'm leery about clearing someone based on ~*~magic walls of text~*~. But hey, didn't read em, probably not going to. So, whatever.

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB: Not disputing she's town.

...curiouser and curiouser. We have a scum suspect step up to counterclaim a scum suspect.

And you know what's REALLY interesting? Scum would have all the motivation in the world to claim at this point. Since either A) It gets a cop lynched, or B) It outs the true third power role.

I'm not certain if DI is lying or telling the truth, but I DO know her claim is perfectly timed for max scum benefit.

[UncertainKitten]

...in fact, look at just how ridiculous DI's claim is. She's claiming that S_B went out on a limb, assumed there was a roleblocker or jailkeep in the game, and claimed no result when it would be a lot easier to say "town" for DGB. Further, we've found at least two "contradictions" that are strongly explained by cop SB. So DI waltzes in, with a wagon being run up on her. She's at L-3.

I have a thought exercise for you all. It seems likely you'll be lynched, or at least there's a decent chance of such. The closer you get to lynch, the less your claim will be believed. Now let's say you are scum in this situation. With everything as it has been in this game, what is the

best possible claim

you can make to cause chaos and out power roles, at a cost that was going to be incurred anyway?

Please, lynch this scum. And third power role, please DON'T claim. If DI DOES flip town, S_B is easily vigged. But DI won't flip town.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, the difference is I feel Snow_Bunny's behavior has really telegraphed her being a cop.

But, at any rate, I say that it's still possible scum wanted to take the risk since it was either that or do nothing at all and get lynched. With DI likely to die, she might as well do her best.

[UncertainKitten]

A) Depends on how DGB reacts to Izzy's claim
B) Not enough data
C) If SB is town, what does that make DGB? Almost certainly scum.
D) If Izzy is town, what does that make DGB? Need a reaction still.

[UncertainKitten]

Well then. DGB is making a terrible mistake to the point of blindness. SB's day behavior makes absolute sense as a cop.

Well, whatever, when the flips sort out we'll know who's what.

Pretty sure that when Izzy flips scum you'll want to shoot DGB, Apok.

[UncertainKitten]

We are. I've already outlined how DI's gambit benefits her, especially since

she was likely to be lynched anyway

.

How the hell do DI's doctor choices make sense?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Benefits her as scum, sorry.

[UncertainKitten]

@cepi: If both of them are scum, that's really easy to prove, thankfully. I ran that possibility actually.

Also, DGB, isn't that kinda just a subtle rolefish right there? I know role fishing on it's own isn't necessarily a scumtell, but I don't quite understand why you'd hide it.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, when DI flips scum, I fully expect DGB to be shot.

[UncertainKitten]

If Dizzy flips TOWN, I hope you realize that SnowBunny is automatic lying scum and needs to be vig'ed, right? The scum might NK you to avoid this.

I should hope so. I figured that was fair obvious.

[UncertainKitten]

If you're voting snow_Bunny, you forgot to unvote...

[UncertainKitten]

I'm surprised she didn't get lynched faster. Glad she was though. I expect on the off chance she DOES flip town we'll be able to figure out some good information.

But she won't.

@DGB: Hmm, possibly, idk. Is he counting votes with just the vote tags?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, we'll find that out, won't we? Fact is we're still getting scum dead SOMEHOW. And with enough connections to figure out the rest.

Honestly I haven't been having much fun myself but I'm trying to trudge through.

[UncertainKitten]

Meh, while we're apologizing now would be high time for me to do so, since I've been an utter bitch this game. It's not really an isolated phenomena either. I'm trying to get better, but it's been hard. Regardless, you all didn't deserve the shit I've been giving you, so I am sorry...I'll try harder to prevent future outbursts.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmmmm...

Wow. DGB was that wrong.

I guess we should wait for a Snow_Bunny result.

[UncertainKitten]

I love cepi's Monday Morning Quarterbacking. It's hilarious.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, viability of massclaim? We're hypothetically a day from lylo. Apok should probably stop shooting.

Massclaim will allow us to figure out is S_B is also lying scum (obviously if two power roles show up).

As it stands though, my choice is obviously between Miyu, cepi, Hoopla, and Sotty.

I think Sotty is certainly a possibility. I don't think Miyu is. cepi and Hoopla is a very hard call.

[UncertainKitten]

I think you were jailkept then. Not necessarily dumbassery, but not the most intelligent use of role. At this point the jailkeep might as well claim.

[UncertainKitten]

What do you have against massclaim at this point S_B? It might help us find scum, and with one mislynch to spare we won't have to deal with a wrenching 1 v. 1.

[UncertainKitten]

Sure. Vanilla townie.

Sotty can go next.

[UncertainKitten]

What's hilarious is that post seems to be lacking in something. You know, like a claim.

Claim. Now. Miyu. I was pretty sure you were town, but...um...ignoring a call to claim during a massclaim is mildly scummy.

Especially to post an informationless pile like that. Yes, clearly the scum will be among the four people who are yourself, Apok, or S_B.

Now claim.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: AREN'T yourself, Apok, or S_B.

[UncertainKitten]

Then you clearly haven't been paying attention.

First of all, objectively, you're included in the scum list. My "list of four" replaces me with you. cepi's list of four replaces her with you. Hoopla's list of four replaces her with you.

So, don't even TRY to float past the "it's in those four" bullshit past me.

YOU, TOO, ARE A SUSPECT

That's not me

Secondly, the reason we massclaim NOW instead of tomorrow in likely lylo is because it discourages hard 1 v. 1s. Simply put, scum's going to counterclaim in lylo. It's their best move, since it prevents a confirmed while giving them a decent shot at victory.

So...how exactly is resisting massclaim at this point beneficial, Miyu? Are you afraid to be locked into a claim? Were you planning to wait until lylo to counterclaim a power role?

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, sorry RC. I punctuate points with red and forgot it was your color. I'll avoid it in the future.

@Miyu: You do realize that the "right powerrole" has been named SEVERAL TIMES, right? DI was silly, yes, but I doubt they'd claim the wrong PR again.

I notice you haven't tried to counter my points. Claim. Now.

[UncertainKitten]

Which means the remaining 2 scum are among Hoopla Sotty and cepi for me.

Anyone wanna counterclaim ?

And do you REALLY think we'd lynch a scum with a 50% chance of failure? HA.

[UncertainKitten]

AMAZING, MIYU! You've somehow proven that you are ILLITERATE :O! Note that little "for me" at the end? Yeah. Dumbass.

Good thing I'm not a GF.

I'm fine with lynching Sotty.

Hell, if we lynch scum Apok can shoot me. I really dislike a lot of the stupidity in this game. Mine included.

[UncertainKitten]

Or we can do what Sotty suggested. It makes a lot of sense since if we lynch scum, jailkeeping me would block my hypothetical kill.

I'll note that a no kill doesn't IMPLICATE me, but a kill clears me.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: I mean cepi.

[UncertainKitten]

Um...where are you getting that at all Miyu? (And I know I'm not objectively cleared. As I said, it was the choices

for me

. You never made such a qualification)

Anyway, from what I can tell, cepi isn't relying on anything that's not true

Today

3

U

1

T

(ok, or GF)
3

CT

Lynch an unknown. Now, we are relying on the unknown being scum for the rest of this. That's the only assumption that could be a problem.

So we lynch scum

N4 leaves us with

2 U

1 T/GF

3 CT

Obviously scum are killing a PR. Apok is killing an unknown

Now we have branching paths. Assumably you jailkeep me, btw.

If I'm scum:

Well, obviously no kill occurs. We lynch or shoot me. I flip, game over.

If I'm town, but no kill:

We lynch me, I flip town

We're left with

1 U

3 CT

Apok shoots the unknown. Game over, we win.

If scum successfully kill:

I become confirmed, so it's

1 U

3 CT

Oh hey, lynch the unknown, we win.

THERE IS NO WAY FOR TOWN TO LOSE IF WE LYNCH SCUM TODAY! THAT IS THE ONLY ASSUMPTION CEPI MAKES!

Now that's the thing, isn't it? We can exclude me from the lynch pool today, obviously. So we have to pick scum with a 66% chance of success.

Now, do you think you can try not to screw that up, Miyu, or is it too hard for you?

[UncertainKitten]

...OH YEAH!

I forgot, it's a 33% chance if I'm scum. Regardless, the game is still solvable at that point even if we lynch town. We have two branches

A:
N4 is

2 U

1 T/GF

3 CT

Hmm...I think it's still optimal to block me, but if someone has something more optimal go for it.

Now, two choices. Apok shoots, going for a 50/50.

We either lose or kill a scum. If we don't lose

1 U

1 T/GF

2 CT

See the path about blocking me again. lynch unknown, block me or shoot me, whichever one of you is alive.

Now, if Apok DOESN'T shoot

2 U

1 T/GF

2 CT

Well, obviously Snow_Bunny is dead now. So we have a block and a gun. We take our own 50/50 on lynching. If we miss, we still win. The wincon is that all other factions are ELIMINATED. With the vig alive, she can shoot the other unknown, who is confirmed scum, and Miyu can block me, who at that point is confirmed scum.

You go into D6 with

2 CT

1 GF

So, actually, we literally cannot lose.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, in fact, the only way we DON'T win is if Apok shoots when we lynch town.

[UncertainKitten]

OH! I forgot one thing.

If Hoopla counterclaims, lynch Hoopla, if she flips town Apok obv shoots Miyu.

Leaving us with
...a terrible situation if Miyu is lying...

We basically lose our guaranteed win....

[UncertainKitten]

So, you somehow have a way to defeat my analysis of the game?

If so, please provide it.

If not...

Shut the fuck up you arrogant, fucktarded, asstastic pile of shit who amazes me in the fact that you can even type with how much of a complete fucking FAILURE you are.

Really now, can we stop this? Write her some private hate mail, but please don't sully my game with this trash anymore.

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, there is a flaw.

RedCoyote: As the scum wincon is written, do they win when they comprise 50% of the town or when they can completely eliminate it? The way it's written implies the latter. So if it were 2 v. 2 with a vigilante alive, would town still have a chance?

Just a standard ruleset. In the rules I've laid out, with optimal results, the Vigilante and scum shots would cancel out, leaving 1v1. Since there's no way for either player to be lynched, the game would, if played out, go into night. Consequently, the last town member would be shot, and the scum would fulfill their win condition.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, there goes our guaranteed win. I was hasty last night in saying lynch Hoopla. Not that I necessarily believe her, but I think I need to read some things first.

Really now, can we stop this? Write her some private hate mail, but please don't sully my game with this trash anymore.

I'd love to. If she would. Just because she's more subtle about it doesn't make it any less wrong.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, as I said, if we lynch wrong shit gets bad.

Yes, Apok will shoot the other. Then you or Apok will die.

We go into D5 with

2 U

1 T/GF

1 CT

The good news is we either retain a gun or you have a cop investigation.

If Snow_Bunny lives and investigates a townie:

Our lynch choices are me and the Unknown. Straight 50/50 on whether we win.

If Snow_Bunny lives and investigates scum:
Obv win.

If Apok lives:

We lynch an unknown, and once again it's 50/50 with Apok choosing to shoot me or the other unknown.

Basically, we have a lot of 50/50 possibilities and a couple solid wins.

But it's really chancy. We really, REALLY want to lynch right today. Here's the thing. I'm more inclined to believe Hoopla right now. Miyu was VERY resistant to massclaim, and I think it was because she was doing exactly as I said scum would do. Holding back a claim so she could 1 v. 1 in lylo, and hope people suspected Hoopla more. Miyu was in a far better position for that. Hoopla counterclaiming is really risky for scum, sure, it COULD pay off but it STILL doesn't guarantee the win. Especially since the general mood was to lynch Hoopla if she counterclaimed.

[UncertainKitten]

A good chance? While it's slightly better than random lynching, I hardly consider ~50% chance of victory that good.

Also, I screwed up.

UNLESS the Godfather flips, this:

If Snow_Bunny lives and investigates a townie:

Our lynch choices are me and the Unknown. Straight 50/50 on whether we win.

Is untrue.

However, if the godfather DOES flip, well, I suddenly become confirmed town, and so does any townie investigation you have, locking the game.

Just as if the godfather DOESN'T flip, any investigations you have will essentially be useless. And we'll have a 33% chance of lynching right .

If Apok lives obviously it's still based on the godfather, but it's either 50/50 or guaranteed.

[UncertainKitten]

Quote is from me, sorry.

[UncertainKitten]

I'd place my bet on Hoopla. Miyu's behavior feels more in line with someone thwarted by my call for massclaim who went for it anyway.

I suppose I better go for it

Vote Miyu

[UncertainKitten]

Nice to know you're scum, Miyu.

Or do you have more than rhetoric, at this point?

You know, for all the blasting you gave me for my playstyle...you're just as much of a bitch as I am. Hell, you're worse. You refuse to accept it .

[UncertainKitten]

See, I use rhetoric a lot. I'm trying not to in the future because it's a really lazy way to either get your way or get lynched. Rhetoric doesn't help the town. Rhetoric merely pisses people off (and yes, again, I'm aware I'm one to be talking about that).

So, Miyu, let's try something different. Rather than snapping at each other with you occasionally jabbing Hoopla, let's try and be reasonable. FOR REAL, I mean. Like, me as well.

I'd like you to post a succinct case on myself and Hoopla. Tell us WHY we should believe you over Hoopla, without any rhetoric. And tell me why I'm supposedly the GF. Without resorting to calling Hoopla and I idiots, falling back on 'well I'M the jailkeeper!!' or anything like that. (YAY HYPOCRISY :V)

[UncertainKitten]

I already did Miyu, read my posts.

And while I don't know anything about you, I do know your posting in this game has been just about as bitchtastic as mine.

If you aren't going to reasonably present your cases, then you aren't being pro town. Further cementing the fact you are scum. A Miyu townie has NO REASON to stonewall a plea for reason. Rather than provide reason, you provide rhetoric.

I refuse to believe you are town at this point. You reek of scum intent in the way you've handled this.

Cut by Snow_Bunny:

Thank you for putting it far more succinctly than I did.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, honestly, it actually doesn't matter if we lynch right today. But, yeah, if we lynch wrong we do need to think of who's more likely. From my perspective it'll be between cepi and Sotty. I'll probably lean towards Sotty given overall behavior. I should probably look at voting histories, but honestly I don't feel like confronting that unless the worst happens.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: I mean figuring out the third scum doesn't matter if we lynch right today. It becomes a logic puzzle outlined in one of my earlier posts, expanding on cepi's posts.

[UncertainKitten]

@Hoopla: Just because you *know* her alignment doesn't mean we do. I lean in your favor but if she actually produces decent, reasonable analysis, I'll certainly consider it.

[UncertainKitten]

@Miyu: Actually, notice the theme in that post. She leans towards "disbelieving", but says it's easy enough to disprove, and key words here,

not worth lynching over

.

Do you think it's possible she was trying to avoid outing herself as the jailkeeper after the hard stance she took on S_B?

...what the hell, Miyu, this is misrep!

Except that you did vote for Snow, Hoopla.

Your vote for SB.

Which was before the cop claim.

That's scummy as HELL.

I'm pretty sure I explained why I changed my mind pretty much after Hoopla claimed. You stalled on massclaim because you knew it would wreck your plan. Hoopla counterclaiming is suicidal.

@Apok: Um...actually, I kinda assumed that was the case two. It's how I'd resolve it. It's just...how action resolution works...

Miyu's post, for me at least, confirms she's scum. Her reaches to try to indict Hoopla scummily misrepresent her behavior. That's all there is to it.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...hell, now I'm confused again. Because cepi puts up a lot of good points. But I REALLY can't shake my feelings on Miyu. I think the snow_white thing isn't necessarily concrete, but it is a supporting point...

ARGH...I guess I need to think and read at some point today or tomorrow.

[UncertainKitten]

To hell with it, if I'm wrong fuck it. I honestly don't see myself doing the promised reread in any timely fashioned.

I hope you all are right.

Unvote, vote Hoopla

[UncertainKitten]

Haven't you noticed that the night actions are spelled out in both yours and mine posts, cepi? We've run down every scenario that matters.

The hammer's timing wasn't stupid, because everything you said has already been said.

[UncertainKitten]

Think what you want. I could care less about this game at this point, really.

[UncertainKitten]

I thought this would be fun. But it's been a clusterfuck. Maybe it's not the type of game I like. Too many vanillas and shit. Maybe there was too much clashing because of my anger issues that manifested this game. But, seriously, it's been completely unfun for me. I'd replace out but RC has so many replacements to find already, and I honestly should just tough it out. I really don't want to admit that Miyu could be the jailkeeper, but the walls I've seen basically destroy arguments I had against her. So I voted with what I figured was a better probability for success.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I knew the game favored town when I signed up. But the power role mix made it ridiculous. That said, I do think the town did a decent job, even if Miyu made an incredibly sub optimal play since S_B was effectively useless as a PR after the second goon flipped, and at that point you should have been attempting to roleblock kills, hence why you should have targetted me, but fortunately Apok knew what she was doing ^-^.

Anyway, regardless of what Red says, my performance was terrible this game, both as a scumhunter and a person. I said a lot of things I shouldn't have, mostly due to various factors in my life at this time, but there's still really no excuse to take it out on you all. So, I'll apologize again for that, and honestly make a future effort to prevent recurrence in other games.

[UncertainKitten]

/me reads the scum QT

Sorry Hoopla, I become sane at the most inconvenient times for scum, it seems, and then go back into my mad ravings for most of the game

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB in the dead topic: Where did I say that? I thought my line of reasoning was that no kill would

implicate

me. If I mistyped I apologize ^-^;

@camn: Sorry about this showing. It's actually more unusual (though more frequent as of late). I'd like it if you'd give me another game with you sometime in the future...as long as it's a mini .

@S_B: Your PR saved you and gave us a chance at collusive lockdown. That's a fair bit .

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah...ah...sorry about that hasty conclusion about your allegiance after Dizzy's flip .

[UncertainKitten]

@Anon: I knew the hammer was terrible play. I really didn't care. Didn't I say as much?

[UncertainKitten]

In game justification. Post game I admit it was a dumb move.

[UncertainKitten]

Huh, so I don't. My mistake. Could have sworn I added that my move was stupid when castigating Miyu's performance. Damn.

[UncertainKitten]

Well...well...YOU KNOW WHAT MIYU!?

That said, I do think the town did a decent job, even if RedCoyote made an incredibly sub optimal modding mistake since S_B was effectively useless as a PR after the second goon flipped, and at that point Miyu should have been attempting to roleblock kills, and did, but you instead had her target S_B, but fortunately Apok knew what she was doing ^-^.

THERE I FIXED IT!

Admittedly I didn't expect a mistake in the targetting, and could honestly see you just doing something else out of spite.

So...apparently I was wrong. Sorry ^-^;.

(The shouting in this post is more tongue in cheek, if it isn't obvious)