Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[nopointinactingup]

/confirm

[nopointinactingup]

vote:Tashy

How is bandwagoning a scumtell?

[nopointinactingup]

21

bottles of beer on the wall...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nopointinactingup

Vote, now.

Are you high?

How is bandwagoning a scumtell?

it definitely isn't in this phase of the game... was just looking for a "reason" to cast a random vote

but

I do belive that bandwagoning is more the thing a mafioso does when game progresses, since then, losing the option of hiding behind randomness and initial disinformation, he has to do something... and the last remaining thing (except lurking...) which does not imply own, new, fresh thoughts is bandwagoning

You're forgetting that scums work as a team, "coordinated, organized and rational members rather than a mob of individuals who change votes every time the wind blows."

[nopointinactingup]

Chihuahua's argument is funny.

[nopointinactingup]

and another thing... I'd really want to hear from AWA... he/she hasn't said anything execpt "/confirm"
just so you can find in the game and make up a little for the information you owe us, how about answering this questions:
a) which role do you prefer to play (no esoteric roles please)? in particular, do you prefer being mafia or townie?
b) how would you characterize your playing-style?
c) if you were to cast an arbitrary vote, who would you vote for?
d) what do you think about bandwagons?
e) what do you think about RVS?

@mod: please prod AWA

a> Either is fine.
b> It could be anything.
c> Lemon
d> Pro-town, as explained by the above. It's one of the best ways around to stimulate discussion.
e> I don't like it, but it's sorta the only way to start things.

@Chi: Playing the newb card hardly works on Newbie games let alone these kinds of thread, so if you joined the game in this thread, please treat it seriously. If you are town, we expect you to be rational, scum-hunt and provide your arguments. If you fail to do so, the town will likely lynch you whether we feel you are town or not because doing nothing and providing no input while remaining a big question is totally Anti-town.
Some Questions for you:
1> Are you Scum?
2> How do you hope to find scums?
3> How do you feel about Magma's attack on you?

@Lemon: Though I believe we shouldn't be all on Chi for his posts, I completely object to putting up with Chi as she is now. If she doesn't know how to get stuff done then we have to show her the hard way, not the easy way. And I believe that's what Magma is trying to do. Of course, if he was just trying to find an easy lynch target then we would know once the wagon started, but right now it's hard to say anything about Magma.

@Magma: I still think Chi's play and Lemon's defense for Chi is null, but I'd like to here their replies.

[nopointinactingup]

@nopoinatactingup:

I'll answer your questions.

1> Are you Scum?

This is a test question, and almost any answer I use here will be used against me. No answer.

2> How do you hope to find scums?

The moment someone slips up and everyone piles onto him/her.

3> How do you feel about Magma's attack on you?

I need to go back a little bit to look at it, but I have a gut feeling that he might be using me.

1> This makes me suspicious of you. Of course everyone knows this is a reaction-test question. However, given the current meta I've got from you, I'd expect you to answer "I'm not scum" more if you were really town. There's a good chance someone like you being scum would feel awkward about lying and thus, post a No answer.
2> What if they lurk? What if they never slip? What if a townie makes a seemingly scum-slip? Would you actively contribute anything to find scums or just bluff and hope that they will slip?
3> Do tell what you mean by him using you?

I'm going to mimic Minii's vote on Chihuahua and his FOS on Tasky.
VOTE: Chihuahua

Nothing new to add?

Because the question is basically stupid and nonsense. You should know that.

Now how would you know?

@nopointinactingup & youngminii - Then do you think that we should policy lynch Chi for being a newb?

No I do not think we should policy lynch Chi, especially in this early part of the game. I'd like to actually acomplish smt by looking at various players on Day1 before a decision to lynch.

the thing is: if we go to lynch chihuahua0 because we think he is scum, worst case scenario we lynch an useless newbie townie
if however we don't lynch him, but go for a more experienced player, worst case scenario we lynch a really useful experienced townie...

so, in order to not vote chihuahua0 the odds must really strongly be that another player is scum, otherwise the risk just isn't worth it...

This is not how it works Tasky, you haven't even given Chi a chance. The fact that you're trying to take the easy road to get somebody quicklynched really bothers me.

@Equinox and his typical Wall-O-Text:
1> In your post, you pointed out that Tasky doesn't like bandwagoning. Now, however, he's strongly pushing for a quick lynch.
2> On the Aclockworkmelon actively lurking, I do agree with you but I don't think we can tell yet if he really has some analysis of his own going. His behavior is anti town till now, but I feel it too careless to be scum. However, I feel he needs to speak up and get his analysis going because I'd rather have him lynched then Chi now if he continues to act this way.

Unvote.Vote:A clockworkmelon

3> I personally think Lemon's defense for Chi is justified. I would do the same seeing as to how fast the Chi wagon seems to be moving despite its flawed evidence.

The reason I didn't answer question one because you wouldn't be asking the question unless you are going to examine my response. Of course everyone will claim town at this stage of the game. And because of my other posts, I thought that my answer would be read as scummy.

@Equi: About thinking about Magma using me. Look at the post below.

That's the point, if you're just town, you wouldn't be thinking that much ..

[nopointinactingup]

@Mod: I need to take a VLA for a few days

Keep talking people, and expect me in a few days with a huge post.

[nopointinactingup]

Maybe it is paranoia, I realized how the Too Townie argument is somewhat flawed, but I agree with the statement on that wiki page (apply it to a general case) "very easily be playing an extremely convincing double-bluff. His posts do a great job of making the implication "I'm town". So, it's easy to overlook him as a serious candidate for being scum, without ever questioning his motives." And like I said above, it's not unfathomable that Mafia act pro-town.

No one is saying you should overlook anybody. What we are saying is that it is considerably harder for scums too look "too townie", but it is very often that many town people looks townie. Thus, you should not dwell too much on the "too townie to be town argument".

And honestly, at the "1> Are you Scum?" question to Chihuahua, stop overplaying it. I would bet that regardless of what answer, you guys would pick it apart. If he said he was townie or no, there would probably be some convoluted method to determine that he's lying and convict him on that basis. Also, in regards to nopointinactingup, last I checked, lying on the internet is as easy as it takes to type the words. Why would you be uncomfortable lying to complete strangers in a game where lying is condoned, even somewhat promoted.

No. In fact if he had just said that he was a townie, I'd be more inclined to believe he was really a townie and just leave it there. And refering to your question, I do not think everyone who's playing on this site would be uncomfortable in lying, I clearly stated that players with Chi's behavior would feel more uncomfortable lying. I expect people like you, Magma, Equinox, even Tasky to lie as if they are genuine thus I do not bother to ask you guys such question.

[quote="MagnaofIllusion]I bet scum, but it would be rash for me to vote for one of them right now.[/quote]

Why would it be rash for you to vote one of them right now. They are both a far cry from a lynch. This level of caution is indicative of scum?

I would do the same seeing as to how fast the Chi wagon seems to be moving despite its flawed evidence.

1. Three votes over 5 real life days hardly qualifies as a fast wagon. Why are you attempting to paint it as such?
2. Please provide support for your assertion that evidence against Chi is flawed. I’ve yet to see anything directed at him that is qualifies as flawed. You yourself point out in 157 that Chi is not approaching the questions from a Town perspective.

1> It's not just votes that what's getting me worked up. It's the majority of active people voting and willing to vote Chi after his newb card. That's why I feel that the wagon is scum driven and that we need to take a look at people apart from Chi.
2> It's not logically flawed. Chi would be found most scummy by my book. However, a notice of Chi's joining date and his proclivity towards unseriousness really drove my scum read on him towards null-read. I would like a more thorough read on him and if and he improves to decide if he really could be scum. And besides, his wagon seems to move too fast to be a scum wagon ( based on the fraction of active players voicing their opinion only, there are too many inactives ).

This is not how it works Tasky, you haven't even given Chi a chance. The fact that you're trying to take the easy road to get somebody quicklynched really bothers me.

Another post that uses tainted language in an attempt to discredit someone. Chi has hardly been the target of a quicklynch. In fact that heavy defence of his scummy play by multiple players indicates quite the opposite.

The opposite of what? If there were more people like you around, Chi would've been quicklynched already and regardless of how he flips, we lose valuable Day 1 info. With all due respect to your play, just don't expect everyone to behave like you.

I'm withdrawing my vote. Right now, I don't know who might be scum, but I'll just keep this vote until I'm sure or to use as a hammer.

No one knows who scum is except the scum but what we need is your opinion. We don't expect you to be 10000% sure who's scum ( that would be suspicious actually ). We need you to voice your opinion on who's acting scummy and find scums and one of the best way of doing that is to vote and pressure, not to make fluffs or to solely answer what's addressed to you.

One of us

might

be scum, but not all four of us.


I'll just vote for one of them, even if it means everybody else accusing me of being scummier:

VOTE: AClockworkMelon

What? .. Chi if you had to put your life on the line, would you randomize your vote like that?

@Equinox: Because if people repeatly lynch me and I am revealed as town, I will be branded as a noob. I am determineted to stay with this site, and I am going to develop a metagame.

I

think

Lemon, AClockworkMelon, Tasky, and RetroAudio might be scum. But yet again, everyone have a reason to vote for one of them.


Oh, and by the way, I haven't seem Chevre post for awhile.

@MagnaofIllusion: Looks like I'm the VI, again.

Chi if you are determined to stay on this site or to not be branded as noob, you should do things to substantiate yourself. Everyone has a reason to vote for one of Lemon, ACM, Tasky, Retro. So what is YOUR reason for voting ACM? Please don't tell me it's random or point out the reasons why others are voting ACM or I will personally brand you as an anti-town noob.

I typically post a lot, but in other games I've played in I've been criticized for being too active. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

What? Please be mega active and we will praise you as king . The joke's out of the way, I mean you are being so terse that it's hard to get any solid read on you.

It does not necessarily need to be, but I find it that we should not absolutely trust Magna. We have no good reason to.

No one is saying they are trusting Magma. Why are you afraid we might be? Do you find him scummy?

My 2 would have to be RetroAudio, for the suspicious dodging of questions, and ACM, for the aforementioned "active lurking". I would put Chi for a close 3rd.

Do you have anything to add or are you going to just use others' reasonings for your biggest suspects?

Right now I'm still seeing more fluffs and zero scum hunt from both ACM and Chi, my two strongest suspects. Equinox, Magma, Tasky and Untrod are currently earning town reads from me while the rest are null. Lemon currently reminds me of the first time I was scum in this site so I have a bad gut feeling about him as well ..

[nopointinactingup]

@Quoi: Apart from Chi whom everyone is on, do you have any other suspicion?

[nopointinactingup]

I have a little question (well, technically not a question) for everybody who is defending chihuahua0 for a reason which is even remotely connected to the fact that he is (or seems) a newbie... basically this is for Lemon and nopointactingup, but answers are welcome from everybody who would like to answer

make up a sample post (very approximative, you can also explain what would be in it), which could be written by chihuahua0 and which satisfies following conditions:
a. It would make you vote for him if he posted it.
b. If another post was even slightly less scummy than that post, you would not vote chihuahua0 for it.

I don't see the point of this so I will not do it. My position stands clearly in that I would lynch Chi if he's not being exponentially helpful soon. The reason why I am defending Chi right now is I think there are better place to find scums. Policy lynch is always my last resort.

2>

It's not logically flawed.

Chi would be found most scummy by my book. However, a notice of Chi's joining date and his proclivity towards unseriousness really drove my scum read on him towards null-read. I would like a more thorough read on him and if and he improves to decide if he really could be scum.

Emphasis added. If you don’t think the evidence is flawed why did you say it was in this previous post?

I said it is not

LOGICALLY

flawed. But it is somewhat flawed if you take a look at Chi's join date and meta.

Your assertion that Chi would be quicklynched by “people like me” is completely incorrect. Can you find evidence where I have ever quicklynched anyone? If not stop making crap up.

I don’t expect everyone to play like me. What in the hell is the point of that sentence?

My point is that if you are town, you are having a severe case of tunnelvisioning. Please consider everyone instead of just Chi. Remember the vengeful game we just played?

@Quoi, Chi: Please answer the questions directed at you!
@ACM: Where is your super talkative meta, I would like to see it.

Unvote, vote: Chihuahua

[nopointinactingup]

Unvote, vote: Chihuahua

wow... this looks strange... in your whole post you give no reason for this, you talk about MoI, about other things, and then go on to vote chihuahua0. Opportunistic voting maybe?
[/quote]

Magma has a point. There are only 3 votes on Chi and I gave him enough tolerance as you can see from my previous posts. And opportunistic? Please, now you're speaking as if your biggest suspect is likely town .

@Quoi: Please stop avoiding my question.

@Quoi: Apart from Chi whom everyone is on, do you have any other suspicion?

Unvote.Vote:Quoi

He seems to be paying attention to the thread, but what he's been fluff-ing with every of his one liner posts. Above all, he shirks my question by all means.

@ACM: What I meant was I'd like to see you be as painfully active as you were in those former games.

Welcome our 4 replacements.

nopointinactingup:

She talks about focusing too much on Chi and says we should focus a bit more on other players...and then spends 90% of her posts focusing on Chi or the case against Chi

. I don't know here. I'm seeing more talk then real hunting, and the switch from

The reason why I am defending Chi right now is I think there are better place to find scums. Policy lynch is always my last resort.

to voting Chihuahua in the same post has my eyebrows raised. I'd like to see more from her, but for now,

Verdict: Slightly Leaning Mafia

First of all, I'm male.
That's quite a stretch don't you think, considering I was voting and advocating for a ACM lynch most of the time. And besides, isn't everyone's posts of Chi's content? When people as you questions about Chi it is merely a courtesy to reply with context about Chi don't you think? And indeed policy lynch is always my resort, but Chi's recent posts and inactivity have lead me to think there should be more pressure on her. It's a common sense rule that you don't necessarily vote for someone you want to lynch. The only reason I'm telling you this is because Chi has already been replaced, so please take into consideration that possibility the next time on.

[nopointinactingup]

And to everyone who isn't sure about voting for Tasky yet, I suggest reading my case, redtail's case and Espeonage's case. I'm sort of baffled that more people aren't concerned with his playstyle.

Your case only touched on Tasky being anti-town, not scummy.
Redtail only has a slight suspicion of Tasky.
Espionage's case is still ambiguous to whereas he's a noob or a scum. His join date leads me to believe he's the former.
--> Thus I'm not convinced. However, I noted the fact that Tasky has been quite inactive since he's been call out.

While you've had your vote on ACM for the majority of the game, I wouldn't say you've been advocating for a lynch. Your case basically boils down to "you're active lurking," but you never seem to go anywhere with it. After the vote there's just a couple of questions posed to ACM which basically say, "Please post more." I haven't seen you comment on anything ACM has actually said. Do you think s/he's provided any useful content?

As for Chi; you're right. You're discussing Chi for the most part because everybody is. That's what I meant with my "warping the game" comment. I'm glad you called it out and commented that we should widen our search, but I don't see that you've really done so. You've focused almost exclusively on Magna, Lemon, and Chi. And if your Chi vote really was a pressure vote (which I think you're insinuating), why did you switch from somebody that you thought was scum to a pressure vote on Chi? Why not pursue ACM?

On the other hand, I like your Quoi vote; I agree that s/he's flying under the radar a bit.

1> The thing is, only if ACM posts more do I get some kinda read on him. Thus, I advocate for the talkative ACM not just for the sake of stimulating discussion, but also for the sake of getting a legitimate read on him.
2> As for Chi, I need people to listen before I push right? However, ACM's recent posts are decent, so I'm looking into other people right now.

Nopoint might do well to notice Post 257, in which I answer his question by attacking Tasky.

Speculating on replacing out is WIFOM.

How so?

Is this your best shot?
Because doing so makes me feel you are trying to generate misleading and invalid content, what scums do.

[nopointinactingup]

To be fair, I had Tasky listed as my 2nd most suspicious person in that WoT (after Chihuahua).

As for Tasky being inactive, that could just be frustration with how his/her idea was received.

Also, what do you define as the difference between anti-Town and scummy? Do you think Tasky is anti-Town?

Anti-town are actions unintentionally hurt the town.
Scummy are actions which is either indicative of scum or intentionally hurt the town.
Tasky, in my opinion slightly belongs to the former. But otherwise, he looks genuinely trying to be constructive.

@Equi: A) Do you think that just because a player is absent, they are any less scummy? B) If you had a gun in your hand, and HAD TO shoot someone right now, who would that be?

FTR: I'm not terribly opposed to lynching Tasky. I hate doing it while he's gone, but then he shouldn't've been so scummy, now, should he have been?

I'm honestly torn about chihuahua. Seems really newbie (and my read is colored by various interactions outside of this game -- not another game, just generally: GD, etc.).

I do believe chi could be Tasky's partner, though. (Although, I am learning to not place so much weight on my Day 1 reads. It never ends well).

Vote: Tasky

Is this honestly all of your input SV? More please. At least build a case against Tasky before voting him because you look like you're just playing following the town. And why do you think Tasky is Chi's partner when he's one of the first to attack her?

[nopointinactingup]

@Magma: Ive already explained why that post is. Please reread so you yourself don't catch a case of Cognitive Dissonance.

[nopointinactingup]

@Redtail: Simply I'm wanting to keep Chi/Nhammen for a read on them. But I must get a read on them soon so I have to pressure them? Anyways, the Chi ordeal is over, I don't see why we should talk about it now.

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that.

I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that

. That's all.

Though I'm not one of Tasky's attacker, I'm not liking this post defending him.
Quoi has a decent case against Nhammen actually. But why not vote Quoi?
Chevre is still a null while SV shirks like hell.

Unvote:Vote:Shattered Viewpoint

.

[nopointinactingup]

This all seems like a last minute surge by possible scumbuddies Untrod and Equinox to save scumbuddy Tasky. Espeonage's votepost is also up there as well.

Flailing much? You stated your hypothesis with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

[nopointinactingup]

Chevre is obviously a scum flailing, I will put her at L-1 and ask her to claim.

Unvote:Vote:Chevre

[nopointinactingup]

@Equinox: Of course it wouldn't sound right. I'm usually more talkative. But now I'm not in the mood.
@Untrod Tripod: What?

[nopointinactingup]

I stated specifically he's in L-1 and needs to claim. If someone hammers, we've just found ourselves a likely scum. So why the wishy washy? It's fine, but it will exponentially increase your scumminess if Chevre flips scum.

[nopointinactingup]

Alright. Looks as if there is a Vig/SK.
Which brings my memory back to

To any potential Vigs

- If Chi is not the lynch today he should be at the top of your list tonight.

I find it odd that Magma was able to anticipate the possibility of non-mafia nightkiller in this game. Even more, Nhammen, Chi's replacement got killed. But I still can't figure out a possible connection this points to.

Let's summarize the position of each of the deaths.
*Chevre: Was absent during most of Day 1 until she was called out. Then the suspect-but-not-vote-Tasky ordeal got her in trouble, which is quite reasonable in my opinion. Unfortunately, she flips town, and left behind her suspicion for a possible scum team between Tasky-Untrod-Equinox.
*ACM: He'd been actively lurking that's for sure. But his later posts look better and he even built a case on Tasky. His death suggests a possible Tasky-scum scenario, with Tasky wagoner dying one by one.
*Nhammen: First, Chi/Nhammen flipping town gives me a slight town vibe on Lemon/Esp and Magma and a bad vibe with SV/young and Quoi. Then Nhammen looks damn town and was also the one to support the Tasky wagon.

I don't have as good read on this game as I have with others. Yesterday, I had a town read on Tasky but now all the evidence apparently points to Tasky-scum.
Thus,

Vote:Tasky

I'll Iso him some later time.

[nopointinactingup]

I'm going to go ahead an presume that nhammen is the scumkill and ACM was third party. What scum motivation is there to killing him over Nhammen.

Consider my vote to currently be on Tasky. I'm doing some thinking before I lay the vote though.

And what motivation would a third party have in killing ACM when he's not in the least pro-town looking? I don't think we can presume anything here. The only thing they both have in common is, ofcourse, the fact that they both pushed for a Tasky wagon.

I am not Vig. <- I encourage everyone else to do the same.

Why would you expect anyone to say they are the Vig? And what about the 50% possibility of an SK around you haven't mentioned?

[nopointinactingup]

No. I will not say so, are you role fishing to find the Vig?

[nopointinactingup]

Why would you point out MagnaofIllusion's comment?

Question #2: @nopointinactingup: Why is it odd that Magna would predict the existence of a second killer? Do you thing that line by Magna influenced the second killer?

1. Classic scum argument that something is interesting / odd / unusual instead of stating that it scummy.
2. Poor argument that Vig / SK should not be expected. Here’s my list of complete Minis for consideration –

Mini 937 – Town Full Vig
Mini 938 – Town Odd-Night Vig and JOAT with 1 Shot Vig
Mini 948 – Multiple Town Weak Vigs
Mini 951 – Town 1-Shot Vig
Mini 962 – Serial Killer
Mini 955 – Town 1-Shot Vig (or regular Vig, don’t remember off top of my head)
Mini 969 – Serial Killer and Town CPR Doc
Mini 974 – Town Vig (note this game was not a standard set-up)
Mini 989 – Town Vig

So on 100% of my completed Minis there was an non-Mafian killing role. Please provide a similar list for your completed Minis showing why you would NOT anticipate a non-Mafian killing role.
3. Pointless Nightkill speculation.

You also, in my mind, get even more scum points for your poor analysis that leads to Tasky as the obvious suspect based on all three deaths.

And what motivation would a third party have in killing ACM when he's not in the least pro-town looking? I don't think we can presume anything here.

The only thing they both have in common is, ofcourse, the fact that they both pushed for a Tasky wagon.

Pro-Tip – A Vig is not a 3rd party and would have good reasons to hit ACM.

I also note further Cognitive Dissonance from you in the bolded section – your first post today was full of presumption that nhammen was the extra kill.

VOTE: NoPoint

1> But I did point out I can pull nothing from it and went on to make another case. The only reason why I mentioned it is because it might provide better insight later on.
2> I have never been in a game with Vig/Sk so either Vig or Sk is the entirety of my speculations.
3> It's not just Night Kill, it's also lynch and wagon speculations. I agree that speculation on NK is WIFOM-ish, but that's not what my whole argument are based on.
4> I don't presume Nhammen was the extra kill

I don't think we can presume anything here.

If Tasky is scum –

Who voted for him early in the Day but didn’t appear on his later wagon?

Tripod, NoPoint, and Quoi.

Who appeaered on Chevre’s wagon who was not on Tasky’s late wagon?

Quoi, Tripod, SV and NoPoint.

If Tasky is scum I’d concentrate on these players as very likely scum buddies.

Doesn't both boil down to "Who didn't appear on his later wagon"? Sounds like somebody is trying to create illusions of great number here. And if you ask why, I'd answer that the Tasky wagon to me was not as reasonable as the Chevre wagon.

Right now with Chevre flipping Town I’m more inclined to approach from the presumption that Tasky is scum. Especially in light of the fact that all the players on Tasky's end of day wagon were confirmed Town.

A deeper look into NoPoint, Tripod and Quoi is in order.

Don't give yourself a handful. Pressure Tasky first.

And now for my promised Tasky Iso.
#0: Confirm ( nothing here )
#1: Vote Lemon ( nuthing )
#2: Hate argument with Lemon ( seems like

If Tasky is scum then Lemon/Esp is likely town

)
#3: Hate argument.
#4: Say sorry for posting twice with same content ( not much )
#5: Parrot Magma to prove him wrong? (

self inconsistence is a huge scum tell

)
#6: vote Magma for no reason whatsoever with RVS over (

slight scum point

)
#7: admits to his incorrectness, admits to throwing around votes ( with Tasky an emotional player,

I don't think this is a scum tell

)
#8: vote Chi
#9: vote Mindgamer for hardly a reason (

slightly scummy

)
#10: Explain switching vote is an attempt to get discussion started.
#11: Says bandwagonning is a scumtell (

self inconsistence is a huge scum tell

)
#12: Ask questions
#13: Reply to me on scum behavior
#14: says something's wrong with the quote
#15: reply to me on scum behavior
#16: reply to Magma on scum behavior
#17: Make up questions but don't answer them
#18: His answer + more town-scum talk (

all the discussion generates a slight town verdict

)
#19: Inspect Retro (

slight town point

)
#20: FoS Retro
#21: Being emotional with Retro's reply
#22: Vote Retro for dodging his question
#23: FoS Chi, repeat questions to Retro
#24: reply to young.
#25: Insist people answer his questions.
#26: Came back to Retro, dissatisfied with Retro's response ( the remnant focus on Retro despite the hot Chi wagon gives him a

town point

)
#27: States he wants to lynch both Chi and Retro, just a matter of whom first. ( seems like

If Tasky is scum then Retro/Quoi is town

)
#28: reply to Mindgamer.
#29: reply to Equinox, attacks Lemon for defending Chi and insist on no early lynch.
#30: reply to me.
#31: More attacks on Chi. ( seems like his Retro tunneling has died down )
#32: Vote AWA for lurking.
#33: Rally support for AWA wagon while saying he hasn't forgotten about Retro (

slight scum point

)
#34: Refute ACM, says he wants to pressure AWA to vote but hasn't forgotten about Retro.
#35: OGMUS vote on ACM
#36: More refute on ACM's case on him.
#37: Explain the misunderstanding with ACM. Agrees with Magma's scum list. Suggests a scum list label technique?
#38-45: Rally for more content + random posts.
#46: Make up a useless theoretical question.
#47-49: Rally for his questions to be answered/Rally for Chi lynch. V/LA.
#50: Says he doesn't want to lynch Chi??? But questions the validity of the noob card.
#51: Call me opportunistic.
#52: wants Chi out of this game.
#53: Drops his question idea.
#54-55: Gets all AtE about people not pushing for a Chi lynch.
#56: VLA till this day. Doesn't want to get replaced.

Overall, we see Tasky as a rather emotional player and his trains of thoughts feel coherent to me. That's why I wasn't convinced Tasky was the right lynch despite a few of his contradictions in the beginning of the game. However, recent flips have shown that the player he's pushing a lynch for (Chi), the player who pushed for his lynch (ACM) and the player who was conveniently substituted for his wagon (Chevre) all flip town. Of course, scums could very well be setting us up but Tasky's flip will reveal a lot as there are clear connections between him with various live players.

[nopointinactingup]

Actually you infer it very strongly in this statement.

I find it odd that Magma was able to anticipate the possibility of non-mafia nightkiller in this game. Even more, Nhammen, Chi's replacement got killed. But I still can't figure out a possible connection this points to.

I stated a likelihood, not an inference. And yes, I do think Nhanmen is slightly more probable to be killed by the third party.

3> It's not just Night Kill, it's also lynch and wagon speculations. I agree that speculation on NK is WIFOM-ish, but that's not what my whole argument are based on.

It’s not wagon analysis you are doing. You are routing every dead person on Tasky. Every bit of your speculation involves why said person was suspicious of Tasky. Tasky wasn’t the only person who Chevre suspected or the only person who ACM and nhammen accused. And even if he is scum only one of the Nightkills is likely to be ‘his’ doing. That you aren’t looking really at ANYONE else smells to me of a WIFOMSandwich frame job.

By wagon analysis, I meant I was suspicious of the way the Tasky wagon disbanded so easily into the Chevre wagon when Tasky hasn't given a reply at all. Apparently, you can twist what I say all you want but I am looking into others and their relationships with Tasky.

Doesn't both boil down to "Who didn't appear on his later wagon"? Sounds like somebody is trying to create illusions of great number here. And if you ask why, I'd answer that the Tasky wagon to me was not as reasonable as the Chevre wagon.

Since you are not grasping the logic I’ll lay it out for you.

When are scum partners most likely to vote for their buddies Day 1? If they are going to do so it will be early on when suspicions are less likely to build to a viable wagon. Let’s look at the facts.

1. You, Tripod and Quoi (or predecessors) each voted for Tasky early on when discussion was swirling. At no point during that period did he get more than 2 votes (per the vote-counts). If you were Town this would indicate you had some level of suspicion of Tasky.
2. Later on in the Day an actual viable wagon (more than 3 players) forms on Tasky. More arguments are being made against him. Yet none of the three of you (who, if Town, were at least somewhat suspicious of him earlier) join the bandwagon. Instead a counterwagon quickly forms against Chevre.

I find this behaviour pattern worth investigating. Your second sentence is another scummy attempt to discredit an attack against you with inference instead of direct action.

Don't give yourself a handful. Pressure Tasky first.

TRANSLATION

- Please don’t look more closely at me or my likely partners. We want to bus Tasky today since he’s such an easy target when V/LA.

Interesting translation. Unfortunately, wrong translation. At least have Tasky flip before you WIFOM into buddies and buddies and beyond. And I already gave my reason as to why I had an initial suspicion of him but didn't jump on his wagon later on, read my Iso.

Overall, we see Tasky as a rather emotional player and his trains of thoughts feel coherent to me. That's why I wasn't convinced Tasky was the right lynch despite a few of his contradictions in the beginning of the game. Of course, scums could very well be setting us up but Tasky's flip will reveal a lot as there are clear connections between him with various live players.

1. So all it takes is some WIFOM analysis to flip your opinion of Tasky?
2. What clear connections are you speaking of? Lynching someone you aren’t sure is scum simply to see connections to other unspoken players is classic scum motivation.

1. It's not WIFOM. In fact things rarely feel WIFOM-ish to me. I analyze people with psychology rather than logic.
2. No one is saying we should lynch Tasky while he's still on V/LA Magma. Connections huh? There are plenty. If Tasky flip town, you are more likely scum for instance. But I will not speculate further when there are no flips in a foolish attempt to open my mindmap to scums before their NK.

[nopointinactingup]

Quoi, do you have any other reasons why you suspect me or are you just gonna use Magma's work? Your latest post looks undoubtedly an attempt to buddy up to Magma.

[nopointinactingup]

Where is everybody?

[nopointinactingup]

@Magma: For as long as you still consider me Cognitive Dissonance with your confirmation bias, I will not reply to your irrelevancy.

It's always the case that Tasky is seen as somewhat scummy. More votes on NoPoint for such things as his posts wherein there's cognitive dissonance? all right:

NoPoint

. And how scummy this post is. What is your point of view? Not Magma's PoV.

It's a common sense rule that you don't necessarily vote for someone you want to lynch.

when would that be the case?

How many people have you voted for Tasky? Does it mean you want to lynch all 8 of them?

Chevre is obviously a scum flailing, I will put her at L-1 and ask her to claim.

Unvote:Vote:Chevre

bad, very bad... you seem to be very interested in the claim... the L-1 argument is nonsense, since at deadline Chevre would die anyway... you voting is not going to make a claim better, since it's less probable enough townies can get off the wagon in case the claim is credible... I think you just wanted to lynch
[/quote]

Fair point. But the thought of lynch-at-deadline really didn't really occur to me.
@Tasky: Why is Espeonage scum?

1. Do you believe Tasky to be scum?
2. What did you accomplish by ‘pressuring’ SV?

2. I'd like to think that my pressure got him posting something substantive. And for a brief period at the end of day 1, it did (SV was actually posting substantive content). However, he has fallen back to his old ways. As such, I guess my attempts to pressure him have ultimately failed. I also feel that my turning my attention to SV might have led to a weakening of the Tasky wagon, and may have ultimately led to the Chevre lynch. So, my "accomplishments" are

an SV who is still lurking, and a dead townie

. Go me.

Orly he's a townie? And how would you know?

1. In a single word, yes. However, I think that, for better or for worse, his long V/LA have tempered my suspicions somewhat. Here is a brief summary of my points for and against Tasky:

In Tasky's favor

:
-His suspicion of Espeonage, which seems to be a logical case (if a little scatter-brained; can you explain it in a more concise fashion please?)

Against Tasky

:
-The vote jumping. Man, that rapid vote jumping. To me, it demonstrates an unwillingness to stick with a single suspicion and a desire to find something that sticks with other people. It means that the town is less likely to pay attention to and give credence to your suspicions, and it makes you unreliable in our eyes.
-Continual suspicion of Chihuahua with his vote elsewhere, for what I can see as no real reason.
-His disclaimer that, after the long V/LA, his views will be different. Yeah, I guess that kind of makes sense, since quite a bit has happened in the last couple of weeks. But man, that seems to be setting himself up for inconsistencies.

Things that seem null to me

:
-The chihuahua town request (really, I've got nothing here)
-The long V/LA

There, in a very small nutshell, are my feelings on Tasky.

Well? Then do you think he's scum or town?

[nopointinactingup]

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that.

I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that

. That's all.

Though I'm not one of Tasky's attacker, I'm not liking this post defending him.

what exactly don't you like?

The X marks the underlined words.

[nopointinactingup]

@Magma: For as long as you still consider me Cognitive Dissonance with your confirmation bias, I will not reply to your irrelevancy.

So you are going to take your ball and go home, huh. How quaint. Then again if you can’t counter my points this is the only thing you can do.

No I'd gladly counter anything I see relevant

@Tasky,Redtail: I misunderstood.

[nopointinactingup]

Been without Internet. Will catch up soon.

[nopointinactingup]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

[nopointinactingup]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

This is your catch-up post?

I'm running a hectic schedule now that school has begun. Moreover, I'm having a big problem with my reads in this game. Still ambivalent on Tasky btw. Perhaps more discussion could help.

[nopointinactingup]

I'm

Vig

. I killed ACM and SV. At school right now and don't have Internet connection at home so no LYNCH until I come back.

[nopointinactingup]

Unless someone counterclaims me. Assuming we have a 3 man scum team, that would be either Tazaro/ Equinox + Redtail/ Mindgamer are scum or Espeonage/ Lemon + One of Magma/ Untrod. I have some analysis in mind but before that,
1>I'd like the rest of the gang to claim, Tazaro next ( and Unvote on the way ).
2>I'd like Espeonage to explain the reason why he investigated Untrod and MOI.

As of right now, I'm more leaned towards Esp's claim because it obviously make things way less complicated and

Ok now. I am harbouring a few secret reads. At the moment there are 5 scum. Two are big reads and one backs the pother up. Chevre. Prove to me that the other reads are the ones to follow.

[nopointinactingup]

I would think it's Tazaro if not for my Equinox town read. I'm going to have to find some Equi-scum games.

[nopointinactingup]

@Untrod: If Magma and Esp are scums then this is a one-power-role bastard modding game. I find it really suspicious that you are considering that. Now there is a small probability that Magma is the godfather but Esp is definitely cop.
@Redtail: Who do you think we should lynch?

[nopointinactingup]

Speaking of which where is he? I'd be willing to lynch either of them ( hardly a read in this game, I know ). So it's up to Untrod.

[nopointinactingup]

Let's do this,

If he flips town, I randomize my choice.
If he flips scum, especially godfather, I'll kill Redtail.

The rest is up to you Magma, I hope you can be trusted.

Vote:Tazaro

[nopointinactingup]

Only if Magma is scum. And though he's been wrong the whole game, his claim just seems genuinely JK's mindset.

Thoughts on my targets –

I targeted Equinox Night 1 for two reasons -

1. He was one of my strongest Town reads so I thought he might be a good kill target.
2. He fell into my vote analysis (which I did during Night, BTW) as a potential Mafian due to his vote hopping from Tasky to Chevre. If he was Mafia his general Town cred made him a good candidate to send in a kill order (as he was likely not to be suspected).

I targeted SV because Tasky flipped Town and thus my vote-count analysis pointed to the SV / Tazaro / Esp group as strongly likely to contain scum.

[nopointinactingup]

Why are you protecting Redtail if Tazaro flips godfather?

[nopointinactingup]

@@ So .. the roleblock blocks the roleblock before the Vigkill?

[nopointinactingup]

Esp has scanned Untrod as Town.

If Taz flips Godfather Untrod cannot be investigation immune (in a non-bastard game) and thus must be Town.

That means that Redtail is by POE the last scum and Roleblocker.

Hmm, as long as Espeonage's claim can be trusted:

VOTE: redtail

Why are you conceding to the plan to lynch you first?

Wait, how do we know MoI isn't scum?

Unvote

We don't know.

[nopointinactingup]

Well duh, who else could have killed a mafiaso?
There is only one thing to do at this point.

Vote:Untrod

Scenario 1
Untrod flip godfather (probably) --> We win
Scenario 2
Untrod flip VT (off chance) --> I kill Magma, Magma JK Espeon if he's town.
If Magma is the godfather --> We win
If Espeonage is the scum --> We draw

Conclusion: Most road leads to a Town win. The worst case of scenario is a draw.

[nopointinactingup]

What are you waiting for? Untrod is obviously scum.

[nopointinactingup]

Haizz .. It would be so great if I was SK, but I'm not

[nopointinactingup]

Good game everyone ... thanks for adding a win to my Town column.

It is kind of odd that all the Town power-roles ended up survivng at endgame.

Nice Vig work NoPoint. I'm impressed that despite the pressure I place on you that you kept you wits about you and didn't vig me out of spite. I now have a much better idea of how you play as Town and will use that knowledge when we cross paths again.

If scum would like to offer up their QT I'd love to read it .. I always like to see how thoughts developed as the game wen

Agreed. For some weird reasons all the town power roles are the sole survivors, which is probably the only reason why we were able to win despite the mislynches.
At Night 2, you were actually on my Vig list and I had considered shooting you because it's so hard to get a read you. But I guess I knew better. However, the meta you obtained from me is probably a town PR meta, not a vanilla meta. I intentionally lurked and looked scummy so the scums wouldn't night kill me xD. And there's also that awkward and scummy Vig distancing comment at the beginning of D2. Else, I'd be tunneling people like hell =).
Well good game though, I do think the Set-up is a bit unbalanced in favor of town.

[nopointinactingup]

Wow didn't expect you guys talk to much. You should've thought I was more dangerous >:)