Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[Shattered Viewpoint]

I'm sorry guys; apparently I'm not online

quite

as much as you mafia-addicts.

Shattered Viewpoint:

1) Any particular reason your suspects mirror your predecessor's?

2) What do you think of everyone else?

3) Why do you suspect chihuahua0 of being scum?

4) Why do you suspect Tasky of being scum?

(I added numbers for ease of reference.)
1) Because we're both excellent scumhunters?
2) I think Chevre is the new Target.
3) Not just scum,

newbscum

. He's relying on wikitells. I hate that. He's also caught up in over-analyzing and statistics. Classic newbscum tell. And, most importantly, he refuses to deny he's scum AND is waiting for a wagon to form so he can jump on it.
4) My main thing on Tasky is that forced "sample post" he kept on about. Just seems like a scummy thing to latch onto and not let go of.

Mod: Please replace Tasky. His last post was on July 18.

I'd like to hear from Tasky's replacement. In the meantime,

Unvote, Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

Pressure vote? (Ahh, yes, it was.) Now that I've answered your silly little questions, can you take it off, plzkthx? (And also, can you answer my questions to you? Thanks, ever so.)

Do you not get that if Tasky is my top suspect, and I'm not voting him, then no one is suspicious enough to vote?

What I don't get is why you aren't voting your top suspect. That's just ..... well, anti-town is the best I can come up with. (Okay, with reading everything now, I see this has been stated. Repeatedly.)

Btw. If Chevre is scum Tasky is a likely buddy.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

unvote

Vote: Chevre

[Equinox]

It seems I missed your questions. Sorry about that. Now I feel like I was unfair to you... No matter; that feeling will go away really soon.

@Equi: A) Do you think that just because a player is absent, they are any less scummy? B) If you had a gun in your hand, and HAD TO shoot someone right now, who would that be?

A) No. However, I'm not willing to lynch someone who is V/LA. That's a jerk move.
B) Probably you because of youngminii. The alternative would be to shoot Chevre and lynch you.

By the way, I took off the pressure vote a while ago. Telling me to take it off probably wouldn't have worked, anyway.

The wall of responses:

1) Because we're both excellent scumhunters?

Talk about youngminii's case, then.

2) I think Chevre is the new Target.

Chevre != everyone else

New questions:

With chihuahua0's replacement, any thoughts about nhammen?

[Zang]

Votecount-

Chevre - 5 - (Quoi, Equinox, Shattered Viewpoint, Espeonage, 
Untrod Tripod) (L-2)
nopointinactingup - 1 - (MagnaofIllusion) (L-6)
AClockworkMelon - 1 - (Tasky) (L-6)
Shattered Viewpoint - 2 - (redtail896, nopointinactingup) (L-5)
Tasky - 2 - (nhammen, AClockworkMelon) (L-5)

Not Voting: Chevre

7 to lynch

Deadline is July 23 at 9:00 pm EDT

[Quoi]

Mod: I'm pretty sure nopoininactingup switched his vote to SV in Post #358

[Zang]

fixed

[nhammen]

Holy Cow! 3 pages in 1 day! Catching up...

[redtail896]

2. Because it looked like Tasky was todays lynch, but Equinox merely pointed out someone who wasn't as active and got a bandwagon on them. That is derailment to me.

I did the same thing as Equinox, starting the wagon on SV, but you never accused me. I think this makes your suspicions look much more like OMGUS rather than actual scumhunting.

3. I know a lynch of some sort is going to happen, so there is no need for me to vote unless I feel comfortable to do so.

I don't think this answers my question. Why don't you want to lynch Tasky? Because if you did, then I can only assume you would be voting. Would you prefer that we lynch nobody, rather than lynch somebody you're not voting on?

4. He returned as soon as he was to be replaced. He also hasn't posted since he said he'd be able to post every 2-3 days.

That could be just Tasky overestimating his/her computer access. I see the point that you're trying to make, but I think you go 80% of the way there and stop. Why is it scummy, as opposed to Tasky just wanting to stay in the game?

5. It really depends on the flip. If he's scum, then I'd look mostly at UT and Equinox for trying to derail the Tasky wagon. If he's town, then Espeonage for his sudden reasonless vote on Tasky.

Pretend you don't get to see the flip. Tasky disappears. Who are you suspicious of? Still UT and Equinox (and me) for derailing the wagon?

Ah, it's late. SV: I'm responding to you tomorrow.

[Chevre]

2. I actually was meaning me as the not-so-active player.
3. No. I would rather lynch somebody I'm not voting.
4. It is convienient, but it is bordering on null.
5. Probably all three, because then I have no way of knowing. And you're not a suspect as I have responded to above.

[nopointinactingup]

Chevre is obviously a scum flailing, I will put her at L-1 and ask her to claim.

Unvote:Vote:Chevre

[Equinox]

2. Because it looked like Tasky was todays lynch, but Equinox merely pointed out someone who wasn't as active and got a bandwagon on them. That is derailment to me.

I did the same thing as Equinox, starting the wagon on SV, but you never accused me. I think this makes your suspicions look much more like OMGUS rather than actual scumhunting.

Chevre meant my vote on her, not my vote on Shattered Viewpoint (420[/quote] and 423).

5. Probably all three, because then I have no way of knowing. And you're not a suspect as I have responded to above.

You do have a way of knowing. If you suspect someone, question them until you're sure. I realize the attacks I laid on you yesterday probably prevented you from doing anything productive here, but I'm done. Your turn. Question me, question Untrod Tripod, and question Tasky's replacement. Analyze our posts, and not just the ones addressed to you.

Right now, your "suspicions" look a lot like OMGUS because you lack evidence. Read, analyze, question, and then vote. Though if you're scum, you could just sit back and let us lynch you... I wouldn't mind.

Chevre is obviously a scum flailing, I will put her at L-1 and ask her to claim.

Remind me to keep an eye on you. Something about this doesn't seem right to me...

[Equinox]

EBWOP: Major tag fail!

Chevre meant my vote on her, not my vote on Shattered Viewpoint (420 and 423).

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote Chevre

for the moment to prevent quick hammer

[nopointinactingup]

@Equinox: Of course it wouldn't sound right. I'm usually more talkative. But now I'm not in the mood.
@Untrod Tripod: What?

[redtail896]

Chevre meant my vote on her, not my vote on Shattered Viewpoint (420 and 423).

No, I don't think you guys take my meaning. What I'm saying is that my post 346 started a wagon on SV. Granted, it was never a very large wagon, but it was there. In doing so, I pulled a bit of attention (and at least 1 vote) away from Tasky. This is exactly what Chevre is accusing Equinox of doing, yet in his/her eyes, Equinox is scummy and I am not. I'm trying to understand why this double standard exists. Why are these two cases different?

unvote Chevre

for the moment to prevent quick hammer

Are you scared of somebody hammering Chevre?

Welcome back SV. A couple of questions:

2) I think Chevre is the new Target.

I'd just like to reiterate Equinox's note that this doesn't really answer the question. Who else do you think is scummy? Who is town?

4) My main thing on Tasky is that forced "sample post" he kept on about. Just seems like a scummy thing to latch onto and not let go of.

What do you think of Tasky's other actions? Do they add to your suspicions, or make him seem more towny to you?

Finally,

Mod: Would you please prod AClockworkMelon (if you haven't already)?

[Untrod Tripod]

Untod Tripod wrote:
unvote Chevre for the moment to prevent quick hammer

Are you scared of somebody hammering Chevre?

@Untrod Tripod: What?

Yeah, I don't want someone to slap a quick hammer on Chevre before s/he gets a chance to make what will obviously be a hilarious role-claim or reasoning behind why Equinox, Tasky and I are obviscumbuddies.

Also, ACM, Tasky and nhammen haven't said much/anything about this Chevre wagon, so I wanted to give them a chance to as well. Obviously my arguments about Chevre being suspicious still apply, I just want to give the whole game more time to weigh in on the debate. This wagon moved really fast and even if no one else votes, Chevre still swings from the gallows at deadline. I see no danger in giving more time for discussion. Any reason YOU want it to move faster, redtail? As I said in an earlier post, I firmly believe that you don't have a whole lot to go on during a Day 1 lynch even if the lynch appears "obvious". I'd prefer more discussion (with more people) before we lynch. Why is that a problem?

[nopointinactingup]

I stated specifically he's in L-1 and needs to claim. If someone hammers, we've just found ourselves a likely scum. So why the wishy washy? It's fine, but it will exponentially increase your scumminess if Chevre flips scum.

[Equinox]

Taking away the chance to hammer is the "pro-town" thing to do. It is going to look bad no matter how Chevre flips. I'm going to wait and see, though.

[Zang]

Prodding AClockworkMelon and Tasky

[Untrod Tripod]

Wanting to give 3 players who haven't said anything really about the day 1 wagon that got to L-1 in ONE DAY a chance to talk about it is bad?

[Equinox]

No, the action itself isn't bad. The motivation behind it could be, though.

[nhammen]

I guess we're going to have to settle for an impasse here if you don't believe that's a scumtell.

I said that I can believe that worrying about someone that can't be lynched is a scumtell. But not a single player has cited this as evidence of Tasky-scum. What do you find scummy about Tasky's questioning?

What makes you think that Tasky's misstep was bad logic and not a scumslip? Hell, what makes any possible set of thinly disguised scum information probes distinct from bad logic?

Because scum has no reason to ask a question that is unanswerable, just as Town has no reason to. The tell there is that Tasky did this because he was worried about a player slot being unlynchable. But what he did is not in itself scummy, because it is equally stupid coming from either alignment.

Chevre wagon begins. At two votes, I don't really see much of an argument. But then again, chevre hasn't done enough in this game to get an argument other than "has been too quiet in this game".

I know you're not in the habit of explaining, Espeonage, but that vote really needs it.

Looking at you in isolation, you're sold on Tasky being scum. What's changed?

More goodposting from Equinox. I'd like to see his reasoning as well.

And now chevre OMGUSes. But not with a vote. chevre still doesn't find anyone suspicious enough for a vote.

I know you're not in the habit of explaining, Espeonage, but that vote really needs it.

Looking at you in isolation, you're sold on Tasky being scum. What's changed?

Nothing changed. There is more than one scum though.

and am I not allowed to agree with Tripod?

But you unvoted previous top suspect Tasky to vote chevre. What bumped chevre up to be more suspicious than Tasky?

Oh and look at Tripods case while pretending Tasky is confirmed scum.

Ohhhh okay! I thin I see what you are getting at here, but I would like to see you spell it out for us anyways. Instead of me saying "oh I think it is because of this", and then you saying "yeah thats exactly why".

Equinox:

You aren't defending Tasky. However, you are trying to derail what I feel to be a solid wagon on Tasky near deadline. It's very suspicious.

And I never said majority. I said plurality, as in, if I get more votes than Tasky before deadline, I'll be lynched.

See what I mean Equinox?
Now imagine that when they no nothing of why they are scum.

Ummm... maybe you aren't saying what I think you are saying??

At this point (top of page 17) I would not vote chevre, because his/her play is almost exactly how I played during my first two games. The only difference is that I didn't OMGUS. Now he has been here long enough that he should have a better playstyle, and if there was more time until deadline I would meta him to find out. But given that I have seen Town play in exactly this fashion, and have been Town that has played in exactly this fashion, I am going to refrain from voting at this point in time. Unless the next two pages that I have yet to read contain more evidence against him.

[nhammen]

EBWOP: refrain from voting chevre at this point

Obviously, I am still voting Tasky, and I still find young/SV to be scummy. My suspicion against Espeonage depends on his answers to his reasons for voting chevre. If his reasons are what I think, that betrays a pro-Town mindset.

[Espeonage]

I like nhammen, scum or no.

Ok that was a long post so imma quote you like this. "

italics

"

"But you unvoted previous top suspect Tasky to vote chevre. What bumped chevre up to be more suspicious than Tasky?"

At that point the Tasky wagon was going nowhere and had no momentum. As I said there are 'always' more than one scum in a game. Now at that point Tasky was my top suspect but the game was stagnant so I decided a new direction was needed. After reading Tripod's case I was happy that Chevre would make a good scumbuddy for Tasky so I went with that. Chevre then solidified my read.

"Ohhhh okay! I thin I see what you are getting at here, but I would like to see you spell it out for us anyways. Instead of me saying "oh I think it is because of this", and then you saying "yeah thats exactly why"."

Well now that we are where we are I will oblige but in a different post.

"Ummm... maybe you aren't saying what I think you are saying??"

That post appeared just as I was writing a note to Equinox about my playstyle. That post encaptulated what I was saying so I pointed it out. My post there wasn't entirely game related.

[nhammen]

3) Not just scum,

newbscum

. He's relying on wikitells. I hate that. He's also caught up in over-analyzing and statistics. Classic newbscum tell. And, most importantly, he refuses to deny he's scum AND is waiting for a wagon to form so he can jump on it.

Earlier, the only mention of chi being scum was "I do believe chi could be Tasky's partner, though." So, you thought there were interaction between chi and Tasky that implied a scumpair. But here: no mention of any such interactions. So what was the reasoning behind the earlier comment. This whole post of yours was uninspiring, but everyone else has pointed out the flaws in the rest of it, so I don't need to point those out.

No, I don't think you guys take my meaning. What I'm saying is that my post 346 started a wagon on SV. Granted, it was never a very large wagon, but it was there. In doing so, I pulled a bit of attention (and at least 1 vote) away from Tasky. This is exactly what Chevre is accusing Equinox of doing, yet in his/her eyes, Equinox is scummy and I am not. I'm trying to understand why this double standard exists. Why are these two cases different?

Yes, chevre's attacks are definitely OMGUS, even if he/she refuses to admit it.

[Espeonage]

Alright, Chevre. Let's go back over those "reasons you stated before".

Extremely sorry for the delay, I'm not really sure where to start. After a reread, I find my initial suspects to be no different from the main ones: AClockworkMelon, Tasky, and chihuahua0. I'd rather just jump in now, so if there's any specific ponderings you want to ask me about, I'll answer.

Reason 1: Tasky is on my list

Non-comittal while pointing out Tasky. Real active lurking post.

Tasky is definitely the votehopping. 7 votes so far, including the one on AWA, which I find useless. There is a difference between lurking and flaking. AWA didn't post but twice and didn't prodavoid, so I don't think AWA was lurking.

Reason 2: Tasky is votehopping (We've only been talking about it for the whole game, dude. Way to recycle information.)

This is where she should have voted. Clears someone else in her mind while staying on Tasky simply by agreeing. I read this post as boardering on IioC

I found Tasky's inquiry about a sample chihuahua0 post odd. He asked it a manner where it seemed as though he would be able to get output from it, then easily explained his reasoning with a little pressure and no actual responses. On top of that, he could of just asked a simple question to get the desired result. His "return" from V/LA is also very suspicious.

Reason 3: Tasky made a list of questions that was weird. Then when people said "that list of questions is weird" he backed off. I mean, admitting fault is scummy, right?
Reason 4: Tasky said he'd try to post every couple of days because he found he could at least have some limited internet access.

Now this is getting sad. Still no vote? I am beginning to see some fairly poor and heavy distancing here, like what happens when a newb scum is given instructions on how to play and is trying to carry them out but not really doing well. The fact that Chevre appears to be noob and that Tasky is new to this style of Mafia also adds weight to my theory in the last sentence. And it just intensifies from here.

Equinox: I think Tasky is most likely to be scum.

Reason 5: Tasky is scum

Yep, but she can't vote out a scumbuddy.

Untrod: for the reasons I stated before. He was one of my origional suspects, and his suspicious question about chihuahua. I understand the V/LA is null but it still looks exceptionally convienient.

Reason 6: Tasky is scum. See reason 1
Reason 7: See reason 4

More of the same. Backs up that Tasky is scum. I would like to point out a little point of psychology here. As humans we like to tell the truth. it is a part of what makes us human. (Yes there are exceptions etc etc.) Now what I am seeing here also goes back to revealing poorly thought out scum tactics.

Do you have something new to say on the matter, or are you just going to blatantly hop on the bandwagon? Speaking of all of this talk of scumtells, you know what's scummy? Blatant bandwagonning. I think you're just hoping to hop on this one and go with the stuff everyone else has posted. You haven't really presented any new or helpful material for the entire time you've been in this game, despite many opportunities we've given you to address very specific questions. All you've done is try to attack ACM and then lay some very easy recycled arguments on Tasky. It doesn't make you scum, but it sure makes you suspicious in my book.

What is worse is bandwagoning and not voting because you don't want to go a scum buddy down

vote Chevre

There you go. Mah case extension. Questions?