Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[nopointinactingup]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

[Zang]

Votecount-

Tazaro - 1 - (redtail896) (L-4)
nopointinactingup - 1 - (MagnaofIllusion) (L-4)
Shattered Viewpoint - 1 - (Espeonage) (L-4)
Tasky - 2 - (Shattered Viewpoint, nopointinactingup) (L-3)
Espeonage - 3 - (Tazaro, Tasky, Untrod Tripod) (L-2)

Not Voting: Quoi

5 to lynch

Deadline is August 16 at 9:30 pm EDT


Replacing Quoi

[Tazaro]

I don't understand how I'm scum if Espeonage is town, Tasky.

[Tasky]

I don't understand how I'm scum if Espeonage is town, Tasky.

since you think that Espeonage is scum (your last vote is on him after all), that implication shouldn't worry you...

[Tazaro]

I don't understand how I'm scum if Espeonage is town, Tasky.

since you think that Espeonage is scum (your last vote is on him after all), that implication shouldn't worry you...

By what are you making that implication; trying to set me up?

[Tazaro]

EDIT: By WHY are you making that implication; trying to set me up?

[Tazaro]

EDIT: BUT why.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

This is your catch-up post?

since you think that Espeonage is scum (your last vote is on him after all), that implication shouldn't worry you...

It should worry him. You aren’t establishing why he’d be scum if Esp is Town. Based on my vote count analysis I find that Taz is more likely to be Town if Esp is Town. If anything this looks like lining up lynches ... which I think is scumtastic.

I already posted that SV and Espeonage were my top suspects... UT's post made me go in one direction instead of the other.

I saw that post. Here are some questions / comments to you about it.

1. Quoting someone and responding with ‘You are scum’ is not building a case. You do make some more illuminating points against Esp but nothing of significance I can see against SV. How did he earn a top Scumread from you?
2. How can you have Equinox be one of your biggest Townreads and then make a statement that if Esp (one of your strongest Scumreads) is Town he is scum?

Things that are troubling –

bad, very bad... you seem to be very interested in the claim... the L-1 argument is nonsense, since at deadline Chevre would die anyway... you voting is not going to make a claim better, since it's less probable enough townies can get off the wagon in case the claim is credible... I think you just wanted to lynch

Horrible logic. The point of putting Chevre at L-1 and asking for a claim is to prevent the mislynch of a Town PR. If she claimed Cop, for example, the wagon could be shifted to another scummy candidate.

what exactly were those points?

NoPoint clearly laid out his case at 523.

what do you give up?

As I said to Taz … why aren’t you reading for context. Esp was clearly giving up his request that everyone say ‘I am not Vig’ shown at ISO 31.

UNVOTE: NoPoint– since no-one seems likely to join me on NoPoint I’m not going to keep my vote unproductive any longer. It will likely go to either Tasky or Esp at this point pending Tasky’s response to my points in this post and Esp’s response to Tasky’s case on him.

@MOD

– Any news on the Quoi replacement?

[redtail896]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

Regarding Magna's summary of the case:
1. I argued from the beginning that Lemon was newb town, who saw Chihuahua as being in the same position and defended him thusly. So that line isn't really going to get me anywhere.

2. The first vote switch from Tasky to Chevre was weird; the Tasky bandwagon hadn't really "lost momentum," and this was before the Chevre bandwagon really caught steam. Then, when confronted with this, he switched back. And the last vote back to Chevre had no reason behind it (it being hours till deadline wasn't really a reason with these lynching rules).

Also, considering that early on he seemed really convinced that Tasky was scum, he doesn't seem to be voting Tasky a whole lot. Has he ever explained why he's voting SV?

Also, to use Magna's voting analysis from earlier (and he's already noticed this), if Tasky is town, then Tazaro and Espeonage both being scum might make sense, as they were on both late bandwagons. SV was the third person in that group.

Esp: Why did you claim not vig early in D2? Why are you voting for SV?

[Tasky]

since you think that Espeonage is scum (your last vote is on him after all), that implication shouldn't worry you...

It should worry him. You aren’t establishing why he’d be scum if Esp is Town. Based on my vote count analysis I find that Taz is more likely to be Town if Esp is Town. If anything this looks like lining up lynches ... which I think is scumtastic.

look... actually my post was much more focussed on the "only if" side, in fact as you can read it was actually a defense on Taz...
as I read this post my first thought was "should Esp flip town, Taz is definitely scum"... I can't really explain it, it flashed into my mind... then I forgot it, since I had no real reason for it, but as soon as I posted the "only if" thing, I thought of it again and added the "if" part.

I already posted that SV and Espeonage were my top suspects... UT's post made me go in one direction instead of the other.

I saw that post. Here are some questions / comments to you about it.

1. Quoting someone and responding with ‘You are scum’ is not building a case. You do make some more illuminating points against Esp but nothing of significance I can see against SV. How did he earn a top Scumread from you?
2. How can you have Equinox be one of your biggest Townreads and then make a statement that if Esp (one of your strongest Scumreads) is Town he is scum?

1. I'd like to wait to answer the first part of your question until Espeonage responds to my case (the good points).
for the second part, I really dislike his dogmatic approach to mafia... he says things and that's it... no arguments, nothing at all, just votes. added to active lurking it was scummy enough to make it on my top-scum list... as soon as UT posted that post which I misread it was enough for a vote.
2. I don't remember saying anything of the sort, could you quote the post?, I can't find it. And what exactly is the contradiction you see?

Things that are troubling –

bad, very bad... you seem to be very interested in the claim... the L-1 argument is nonsense, since at deadline Chevre would die anyway... you voting is not going to make a claim better, since it's less probable enough townies can get off the wagon in case the claim is credible... I think you just wanted to lynch

Horrible logic. The point of putting Chevre at L-1 and asking for a claim is to prevent the mislynch of a Town PR. If she claimed Cop, for example, the wagon could be shifted to another scummy candidate.

the logic holds... as a townie, he should just have asked for a claim, since Chevre would die anyway at deadline if nothing changed, so the threat was real anyway (no need for L-1). But should Chevre claim a PR, it would be easier to get the wagon from tracks with one less vote on it since no-absolute-majority isn't enough to avoid the mislynch.

what exactly were those points?

NoPoint clearly laid out his case at 523.

he did that after making the post I was responding to there...

what do you give up?

As I said to Taz … why aren’t you reading for context. Esp was clearly giving up his request that everyone say ‘I am not Vig’ shown at ISO 31.

yeah, I understood that later...

UNVOTE: NoPoint– since no-one seems likely to join me on NoPoint I’m not going to keep my vote unproductive any longer.

do you think Nopoint is more or less scummy than me or Esp?

[Zang]

boberz replaces Quoi

[Tazaro]

Where IS Espeonage?

[Espeonage]

I hath been sick. Two new games just started and I made very quick posts there. My next post here is going to need to be a long one. It will happen when I get up.

[boberz]

I am in yeah! Just gonna catch up, wont be too long.

[nopointinactingup]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

This is your catch-up post?

I'm running a hectic schedule now that school has begun. Moreover, I'm having a big problem with my reads in this game. Still ambivalent on Tasky btw. Perhaps more discussion could help.

[Tazaro]

@Redtail: What is your view of Espeonage?

This is your catch-up post?

I'm running a hectic schedule now that school has begun. Moreover, I'm having a big problem with my reads in this game. Still ambivalent on Tasky btw. Perhaps more discussion could help.

It's really Espeonage whom we're waiting on to discuss stuff.

[Tazaro]

What does redtail think about Espeonage? I'm not going to be lynched today, so why keep your vote on me, redtail? I think it's time to move the game forward with lynching someone because the deadline's not far off and no-lynch is bad.

[Tasky]

What does redtail think about Espeonage? I'm not going to be lynched today, so why keep your vote on me, redtail? I think it's time to move the game forward with lynching someone because the deadline's not far off and no-lynch is bad.

this is exactly what I mean by the implication [Espeonage town => Tazaro scum]... why the hell would you want to lynch faster than necessary? No-Lynch is almost impossible, since absolute majority isn't needed at deadline and I don't think a draw will happen. What problem do you have with him keeping his vote on you if you think you are not going to be lynched?
On the other side this also reinforces the [Tazaro scum => Espeonage town] implication. It doesn't look like bussing to me.

[redtail896]

Welcome boberz!

What does redtail think about Espeonage? I'm not going to be lynched today, so why keep your vote on me, redtail? I think it's time to move the game forward with lynching someone because the deadline's not far off and no-lynch is bad.

I posted some thoughts above; more will be coming after Espeonage and boberz post. We still have 5 days before deadline and the largest wagon has only 3 people, so it's certainly possible for others to vote for you. I addition, because of the way that lynches are counted here, we don't need a majority before deadline to lynch somebody. Do you have any more tangible reasons that I should move my vote?

[Tazaro]

No-Lynch is almost impossible,

since absolute majority isn't needed at deadline

.

Oh, then I am wrong about the Espeonage wagon needing more votes. Didn't know

this

. Then redtail DOESN'T need to move his vote to ensure an Espeonage lynch. Keep your vote on me, I guess.

[Espeonage]

Ok rereading the three cases on me took a whole 2 minutes. We have Tazaro who has a case based on out of context posts, tasky who's case is solely based on the assumption I was lying about not knowing when deadline was and then UT who didn't even make a case he just voted me as an aside in a very short post.

Ok well running under the assumption that people are correct in that if I am town Tazaro is scum then VOTE: Tazaro because I am town.

[Tazaro]

Well, as my vote on Espeonage was based on appeal to popularity and Espeonage has pointed out Tasky and UT as both having no cases, I will not follow them anymore:

UNVOTE

[Tazaro]

Double Post: I feel it is my duty to:

VOTE: Tasky

[Tasky]

Esp, there are still some things you ought to respond to:

At that point the Tasky wagon was going nowhere and had no momentum. As I said there are 'always' more than one scum in a game. Now at that point Tasky was my top suspect but the game was stagnant so I decided a new direction was needed. After reading Tripod's case I was happy that Chevre would make a good scumbuddy for Tasky so I went with that. Chevre then solidified my read.

this looks more like scum trying to find a townie-wagon to jump on... after the wagon on me "had no momentum" you just switched to a likelier lynch

Ok now I understand that there is a large amount of confirmation bias here. In light of nhammens last little tib bit on me for the future this may look bad but I propose a derail of the chevre wagon and a move back to Tasky. i still think tasky is scum and should he not be my whole case on Chevre falls apart and I wouldn't ote for her again.

UNVOTE: Chevre
VOTE: Tasky

I think you just want to get cred for having tried to derail a townie-wagon

Espeonage: Hell no. We are hours away from deadline. If you're trying to force a No Lynch, I will rain fire balls on your scummy butt.

Wait hours?

oh.

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

I think you wanted to let Chevre be lynched at deadline without hammer and you off the wagon, but then when town put pressure back on you you jumped back on... if you'd really think Chevre was the wrong vote, you shouldn't have voted him again, especially since there were no new arguments

Ok Manga solidifies my trust in a tasky wagon today. Let's leave NK spec until tomorrow when we have some more info. I think we are in a bit of a rut post wise until Tasky gets back. Once he does we can really kick start this day.

what exactly did magna say you liked about me? could you restate in your own words?

and second, what happened with your suspicions on me?
this was the only post you made where you cleared me, what happened to the following accusation you made earlier?

Now. Tasky is scum. I have seen it so many times when wishy washy voting is the explaination for what he has done. It is worse than that. Now unless tasky is a noob which he doesn't come accross as then he is obv scum. That was early day one scum nerves. Now if he were a newbie than a non newbie game would be enough to entice this reaction. He seemed to be so much more into the game than he should have and seemed to me to be grasping for purchase on a vote wether it was the RVS or not.
So for now. VOTE: Tasky

and another question:
since Quoi is going to be replaced anyway, would you mind disclose your secret read with us?
and while you are at it, how about your other secret reads?

[Tasky]

Double Post: I feel it is my duty to:

VOTE: Tasky

why is it your duty?
what are your reasons?