Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[MagnaofIllusion]

You had a proxy for a vote for me at #713. Now in 717, you have a proxy for a vote for redtail?

Yes, that’s an accurate assessment of events. Your point? If you want to say that is scummy why don’t you present a scum motiviation for what I did.

Magna and esp I can see as being mafia buddies. There's no guarantee that there is a cop and magna as our jk has failed to actually have any effect on the night. You both aren't confirmed by any stretch of the imagination. A mafia could easily pick one of theor own and a fairly "pro town" player as their investigations and not make a splash. Just sayin.... more later

I think this has been covered but I’ll say (as others have) – if Esp and I are scum together where are the Town PRs? Normals are required to pass muster by Thesp’s review that they are indeed Normal (and thus absolutely not bastard).

Can a game potentially be set-up as 3 Mafia – 1 Town PR (Vig) – 8 Vanilla / 2 Mafia – 1 Town Power Role – 9 Vanilla? Certainly possible. Mountainous set-ups are allowed, so a near mountainous set-up is possible. Do I think it likely? Not at all.

There is certainly no requirement that you 'buy what I am selling'. That's the nature of the game. You should only trust what logically makes sense to you. That said -

Why do you not think I am a JK?

Don't feel bad. I have been burned twice by MoI to the point where in one game I decided not to replace in because I was scared of him lol. I'm not scared anymore but MoI plays a very townie scum.

For all games that are complete can you shed some light on the ‘burned twice’ comment? The only game we have played together where I was scum was Harry Potter Mafia. Is the second game Wolframhart’s Mini? In that case it hardly qualifies as burning you since I caught you as scum

And if the other game is finished I’d really like to know which game you chose not to replace into. Because I don’t have many games ongoing that have required replacement.

@EVERYONE

– Esp’s suggestion is a good one regarding suggesting a preference between Redtail and Taz for lynch. As stated before I favour (slightly) a Redtail lynch.

[nopointinactingup]

Speaking of which where is he? I'd be willing to lynch either of them ( hardly a read in this game, I know ). So it's up to Untrod.

[Zang]

Votecount-

Not Voting: redtail896, Tazaro, nopointinactingup,
 Untrod Tripod, MagnaofIllusion, Espeonage

4 to lynch

Deadline is September 6 at 11:00 am EDT.

[Espeonage]

MoI it was months ago. I think ooba was running it. I was in to replace but then saw you and was like no way.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI it was months ago. I think ooba was running it. I was in to replace but then saw you and was like no way.

Oh Stardust Mafia. The game I got brutally murdered N1 by lurker Starbuck. The game where I learned Jack's pointless bravado style is really how he plays as Town.

You should have joined. It was a good set-up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD - I'll be V/LA starting 4pm EDT today until Monday morning. My family is going out of Town all weekend so I will have ZERO access.

[redtail896]

Hey. Sorry for missing the last couple days, but I'm here now and should be consistently. Some reactions:

@Magna: The short answer is, I agree with your broad logic. I don't have much to add to it. Specific reactions are coming soon though.

And I agree that Taz or I should be the lynch today. I find it extraordinarily unlikely that the remaining 1 or 2 (probably 2) mafia members are hiding elsewhere. I actually think that the remaining two are Taz (roleblocker) and Untrod (godfather).

As for the question of whether nopoint is a serial killer; I'm rather inexperienced in games with an SK (my IRL group doesn't play with them), but I would gather that the town only having a jailkeeper and a cop is a bit weak.

Now, to specific questions:

Interesting in that he specifically separates his Slight Mafia read on Young from SV. Reads as distancing. He’s saying the slot is scummy but is allowing SV’s play to ‘revise’ his thoughts.

I just want to note that SV is not unique in this respect. I did the same thing for nhammen and Espeonage. Notably nhammen actually did change my opinions of Chi's slot.

I wasn't voting for Tasky yesterday because I though that the wagon was strong, and I wanted to focus my attention elsewhere. Basically, this translates into the vote and pressure on SV. By the time that was done, the Chevre wagon had picked up far more steam, and the Tasky wagon had disbanded. At that point, the game became more about questioning and trying to understand Chevre than it did Tasky.

This was basically me trying to exploit the voting system, which I think rewards extending the day and targeting more people at a given time than in other games. Basically, I didn't feel the need to add another vote to the Tasky bandwagon when I could pressure a lurker and try to get more content out of him. I thought that my efforts were better directed elsewhere, and I didn't expect the Tasky bandwagon to fall apart like it did.

2. I'd like to think that my pressure got him posting something substantive. And for a brief period at the end of day 1, it did (SV was actually posting substantive content). However, he has fallen back to his old ways. As such, I guess my attempts to pressure him have ultimately failed. I also feel that my turning my attention to SV might have led to a weakening of the Tasky wagon, and may have ultimately led to the Chevre lynch. So, my "accomplishments" are an SV who is still lurking, and a dead townie. Go me.

That's my explanation of the vote because that's what the vote was. That's what I intended with the vote.

Also, to use Magna's voting analysis from earlier (and he's already noticed this), if Tasky is town, then Tazaro and Espeonage both being scum might make sense, as they were on both late bandwagons. SV was the third person in that group.

I mentioned Taz and Esp first because Taz was my then-current vote (and suspect) and Esp was who I was talking about in that particular post. I added SV as an afterthought because he was an afterthought (I only added him after rechecking your post for the vote analysis). At the time he wasn't particularly at the top of my scumlist.

@Redtail – Why did you not pressure other lurkers in the game like Quoi? And why didn’t you continue to call out SV?

I never pressured Quoi because more things were happening on D2. And, to be honest, I kind of forgot about him. My SV case came part from feeling that the game was stalling a bit on D1, and part from nhammen reminding me that he hadn't actually done anything.

I am obviously in favor of lynching Tazaro, but would happily go for Untrod as well.

[Tazaro]

Either me or redtail, I see...

Unvote

VOTE: redtail

[Untrod Tripod]

vote tazaro

If I have to pick between him and redtail.

[Tazaro]

we could both be town...

[MagnaofIllusion]

we could both be town...

And you can easily both be scum ...

Have any reasons why you both are Town?

[Tazaro]

I'm town. And it would be a kick in the pants if the two choices for lynching are both town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm town. And it would be a kick in the pants if the two choices for lynching are both town.

This isn't a reason. This is you just saying I'm Town.

[nopointinactingup]

Let's do this,

If he flips town, I randomize my choice.
If he flips scum, especially godfather, I'll kill Redtail.

The rest is up to you Magma, I hope you can be trusted.

Vote:Tazaro

[Tazaro]

Does anyone think that the Tazaro/redtail thing is a false dichotomy?

Unvote

[nopointinactingup]

Only if Magma is scum. And though he's been wrong the whole game, his claim just seems genuinely JK's mindset.

Thoughts on my targets –

I targeted Equinox Night 1 for two reasons -

1. He was one of my strongest Town reads so I thought he might be a good kill target.
2. He fell into my vote analysis (which I did during Night, BTW) as a potential Mafian due to his vote hopping from Tasky to Chevre. If he was Mafia his general Town cred made him a good candidate to send in a kill order (as he was likely not to be suspected).

I targeted SV because Tasky flipped Town and thus my vote-count analysis pointed to the SV / Tazaro / Esp group as strongly likely to contain scum.

[Tazaro]

It may be a JK's mindset. But whether it's a town or mafia JK is the question.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Tazaro

If you are a SK then GG NoPoint.

If Taz flips Roleblocker I am Jailing Untrod

If Taz flips any other Mafia I am Jailing Redtail.

If Taz flips Town who I Jail is going to be randomized.

[nopointinactingup]

Why are you protecting Redtail if Tazaro flips godfather?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why are you protecting Redtail if Tazaro flips godfather?

I'll explain this again.

Esp has scanned Untrod as Town.

If Taz flips Godfather Untrod cannot be investigation immune (in a non-bastard game) and thus must be Town.

That means that Redtail is by POE the last scum and Roleblocker.

We both need to target Redtail so he's left in a no win situation with who to block.

If he attempts to block you I block his block and kill. No kill occures as I stop you Vig and we lynch him for the victory tomorrow.

If he attempts to block me then we stalemate. He can likely shoot but will die from your Vig regardless of whether he shoots you or not. We win overnight.

This make sense?

[nopointinactingup]

@@ So .. the roleblock blocks the roleblock before the Vigkill?

[Tazaro]

Esp has scanned Untrod as Town.

If Taz flips Godfather Untrod cannot be investigation immune (in a non-bastard game) and thus must be Town.

That means that Redtail is by POE the last scum and Roleblocker.

Hmm, as long as Espeonage's claim can be trusted:

VOTE: redtail

[Tazaro]

Wait, how do we know MoI isn't scum?

Unvote

[MagnaofIllusion]

@@ So .. the roleblock blocks the roleblock before the Vigkill?

I can't be certain I'm just saying what I see as worst case scenario. I don't recall seeing how Zang is handling resolutions. If his block takes precedence over mine then he blocks me and still dies. If we stalemate it's the equivalent of no roleblocks at all and he dies.

In summary if he choses not to roleblock me all his abilities should be cancelled.

If he does chose to roleblock me then either he wins and you Vig him, he loses and no kills occur or we stalemate and you Vig him. All schenarios should lead to a Town win worst case on Day 4.

Taz flipping roleblocker would make this so much easier.

[nopointinactingup]

Esp has scanned Untrod as Town.

If Taz flips Godfather Untrod cannot be investigation immune (in a non-bastard game) and thus must be Town.

That means that Redtail is by POE the last scum and Roleblocker.

Hmm, as long as Espeonage's claim can be trusted:

VOTE: redtail

Why are you conceding to the plan to lynch you first?

Wait, how do we know MoI isn't scum?

Unvote

We don't know.