Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[Zang]

Votecount-

Quoi - 1 - (nopointinactingup) (L-6)
AClockworkMelon - 1 - (Tasky) (L-6)
Tasky - 3 - (AClockworkMelon, Equinox, espeonage) (L-4)
nhammen - 1 - (Quoi) (L-6)
espeonage - 2 - (MagnaofIllusion, Untrod Tripod) (L-5)

Not Voting: Chevre, Shattered Viewpoint, nhammen, redtail896

7 to lynch

Deadline is july 20 at 9:00 pm EDT

[Espeonage]

Espeonage Zang.

[Espeonage]

with an e

[Zang]

fixed

[redtail896]

That's quite a stretch don't you think, considering I was voting and advocating for a ACM lynch most of the time. And besides, isn't everyone's posts of Chi's content? When people as you questions about Chi it is merely a courtesy to reply with context about Chi don't you think? And indeed policy lynch is always my resort, but Chi's recent posts and inactivity have lead me to think there should be more pressure on her. It's a common sense rule that you don't necessarily vote for someone you want to lynch. The only reason I'm telling you this is because Chi has already been replaced, so please take into consideration that possibility the next time on.

While you've had your vote on ACM for the majority of the game, I wouldn't say you've been advocating for a lynch. Your case basically boils down to "you're active lurking," but you never seem to go anywhere with it. After the vote there's just a couple of questions posed to ACM which basically say, "Please post more." I haven't seen you comment on anything ACM has actually said. Do you think s/he's provided any useful content?

As for Chi; you're right. You're discussing Chi for the most part because everybody is. That's what I meant with my "warping the game" comment. I'm glad you called it out and commented that we should widen our search, but I don't see that you've really done so. You've focused almost exclusively on Magna, Lemon, and Chi. And if your Chi vote really was a pressure vote (which I think you're insinuating), why did you switch from somebody that you thought was scum to a pressure vote on Chi? Why not pursue ACM?

On the other hand, I like your Quoi vote; I agree that s/he's flying under the radar a bit.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

My apologies; I was kidnapped for an unexpected dinner out last night. Will finish reading today and, depending on workload, will post this afternoon or tonight (no more than 14 hours from this post).

[nhammen]

I think I'll come to the defense of Chi to the newbie card. Firstly, we're SCUMHUNTING. His mistakes scream more newb than scum. Attacking him would only rid him from the game and prove useless to the town in the long run.

You seem to be confused. Newbie is not a game alignment. Scum is. I don’t give any leeway to players outside of the Road to Rome for what you are calling “newb” play. The place for that is the Newbie cue. Once you venture from Newbie’s friendly confines I assume you are confident in your ability to play the game. Mistakes made are mistakes made and worthy of examination.

I’ll state it plainly once again … bad play is bad play. You may blindly believe that it can only be attributed to Newb Town play if you wish. I will not.

"Bad play" is also not an alignment either. If the bad play betrays an anti-Town alignment, this is an entirely different thing, but so far (post 106) you haven't shown that this is the case at all.

Tripod 119: is Tripod defending Tasky. Noted for future reference.

Youngminii 125: he says that newbie card is not a defense against scumtells, but has not specified what any scumtells were. Next post is a vote. I look back at ISO before this post and see one mention of his play "is either a scumtell or a newbie in action." Followed by "I don't think the newbie card should be able to be used." So in one post you say that it could be newbie play, and then after people attack him, you change your mind into newbie is not an excuse.

Tasky 128: Youngminii 129 says exactly what I think about this post.

Equinox 146/147: Good stuff. Looks Town. Your point about clockworkmelon active lurking is noted, although it looks like genuine lack of interest in the game to me. See his 134 where he mistakes retro for chihuahua. What lack of interest says about his alignment, I'm not sure. Maybe further reread will help more.

@Mindgamer - It may be effective scumhunting, but it is also effective in diverting attention from yourself. And he probably isn't the first to act really pro-town to shake off suspicions. Obviously pro-town is usually for the town, but Magna's type of pro-town pushing seems to be doing is spreading suspicions and attention elsewhere, diverting them from himself.

What I don't understand is how else MagnaofIllusion is supposed to do it. His attacks appear to me to be well-rounded, which is a good thing to do in Day 1 as it spreads attention across the player list and prevents tunneling. I also don't see how he is "diverting [attention and suspicions] from himself." Please explain that last part.

By focusing on others, he is able to change our perspective to focus on them. What I only have is a semi-hunch.

What about how else he was supposed to do it. I would like to see that as well.

As for the rest of your post, townies have no reason to fear scrutiny. They still win if they die, so they are free to accuse, vote, and defend as necessary. Why are you afraid of people criticizing you?

Townies have plenty of reason to fear scrutiny. For one, if you die, you can't play anymore. The other, more game related, would be that if a townie dies, it makes the odds better for the scum.

Goodposting

Now on page 7. The rest of the catchup shouldn't take too long. Current suspicions as of page 7: Lemon and Tasky.

[Untrod Tripod]

Not to be an ass, nhammen, but post 119 is really more about attacking RA than it is about defending Tasky. At the time, Tasky seemed more reasonable whereas at this point he's seeming a little *too* into getting people to do what he says. I'm not disagreeing with his method, exactly, because I think his getting people to post actively has revealed quite a bit about each player, but the last set of questions certainly were, as people have pointed out, a little ridiculous. I'm not sure it's fair to jump on him about that, though. He just went a little far. The rest of his play, imo, has been solid.

[nhammen]

Tasky 163: I like how you immediately jump to the avoiding questions conclusion (as you did with retro earlier). Especially considering that you haven't really shown an example of him doing this. Although, this doesn't seem like something scum would do either. Seems more like straightforward paranoia.

Tasky 170: Again with the dodging accusation...

ACM 174: Good examples of Tasky switching his vote around a lot. Which means what? Do you think that this implies scum? If so, why?

Tasky 176: Defensive much?

chihuahua 183: so the person I was replacing thought that those two could possibly both be scum? How? What? Ugh... I'm glad this person is not in the game any longer. I really don't see this as bussing.

Post #135, very suspicious. Feigning idiocy, probably avoiding the question at hand.

Did you even look at the context of the post? You knew that it was post 135, so you had to look at something other than just the iso. Let me clear this up for you:
Event A) chihuahua does not answer the "Are you scum" question.
Event B) Tasky says "why don't you just say no?"
Event C) retro says "Because the question is basically stupid and nonsense."
Event D) ACM says to

retro

: "But it being "stupid nonsense" isn't what you used to avoid answering the question earlier:" and shows where

chihuahua

refused to answer the question. (Fail ACM. fail)
Event E) retro becomes confused by this and asks "answer what" which in context obviously means "avoid answering what question earlier".
Event F) You accuse retro of avoiding some question with his "answer what" statement in post 135. So, what question do you believe he was avoiding with post 135? Oh... darn, Lemon was replaced. It's still making up evidence out of thin air though.

[Quoi]

Nopoint might do well to notice Post 257, in which I answer his question by attacking Tasky.

Speculating on replacing out is WIFOM.

How so?

[Equinox]

There are many reasons for replacing out. It may not even be game-related. Speculating on this is pointless and, IMO, stretching for a case.

[Quoi]

Although it is fairly insubstantial, there's still no way it could be a town tell.

I'll drop my idea then, since you all didn't accept it that well... just a tip: maybe you should be a little more open for new ways to play this game... it seems like you all think there is just one right way to play...

Something about our distaste for his questioning leading to his abandonment of it doesn't come across quite right to me. He also seems to have abandoned explaining how it was a protown move in his mind.

[AClockworkMelon]

ACM 174: Good examples of Tasky switching his vote around a lot. Which means what? Do you think that this implies scum? If so, why?

At best it's just a pointless waste of time but at worst it shows indecisiveness and opportunism. I interpreted his behavior as an attempt to find a vote that would stick with the town.

Event D) ACM says to

retro

: "But it being "stupid nonsense" isn't what you used to avoid answering the question earlier:" and shows where

chihuahua

refused to answer the question. (Fail ACM. fail)

Fail indeed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dropping a note to say the following items -

Yeah for replacements so quick - welcome to anyone I missed.

I'm waiting to see SV's input and I'll post something of significance afterwards.

MOD - I'll be LA for the weekend for my usual family duties but will be keeping an eye on the thread and should be able to post with content at least once.

[Equinox]

Although it is fairly insubstantial, there's still no way it could be a town tell.

There's also no way it could be a scum tell.

I don't have anything else to say at the moment.

[Espeonage]

So are the other replacements done with their rereads because this is getting stagnant fast.

[Equinox]

That may be because two of our slots (one of them currently under fire) have gone V/LA.

[redtail896]

Something about our distaste for his questioning leading to his abandonment of it doesn't come across quite right to me. He also seems to have abandoned explaining how it was a protown move in his mind.

I think this is a bit of a stretch. The group in general expressed the opinion that it wasn't a good idea, so he dropped it. I don't think it indicates town or scum; either way, it was clear that nobody was going to perform the exercise. Whether he is town or scum, dropping the issue was the right thing to do.

[nhammen]

So are the other replacements done with their rereads because this is getting stagnant fast.

No, I got to the middle or so of page 9 yesterday, and I did not get a chance to do any reading today. Probably will be done tomorrow. I would read some now, but as tired as I am, I would probably zone out through something important.
Also, stagnant is probably due to half of the players in the game being replaced on D1. Tends to screw things up.

[nopointinactingup]

And to everyone who isn't sure about voting for Tasky yet, I suggest reading my case, redtail's case and Espeonage's case. I'm sort of baffled that more people aren't concerned with his playstyle.

Your case only touched on Tasky being anti-town, not scummy.
Redtail only has a slight suspicion of Tasky.
Espionage's case is still ambiguous to whereas he's a noob or a scum. His join date leads me to believe he's the former.
--> Thus I'm not convinced. However, I noted the fact that Tasky has been quite inactive since he's been call out.

While you've had your vote on ACM for the majority of the game, I wouldn't say you've been advocating for a lynch. Your case basically boils down to "you're active lurking," but you never seem to go anywhere with it. After the vote there's just a couple of questions posed to ACM which basically say, "Please post more." I haven't seen you comment on anything ACM has actually said. Do you think s/he's provided any useful content?

As for Chi; you're right. You're discussing Chi for the most part because everybody is. That's what I meant with my "warping the game" comment. I'm glad you called it out and commented that we should widen our search, but I don't see that you've really done so. You've focused almost exclusively on Magna, Lemon, and Chi. And if your Chi vote really was a pressure vote (which I think you're insinuating), why did you switch from somebody that you thought was scum to a pressure vote on Chi? Why not pursue ACM?

On the other hand, I like your Quoi vote; I agree that s/he's flying under the radar a bit.

1> The thing is, only if ACM posts more do I get some kinda read on him. Thus, I advocate for the talkative ACM not just for the sake of stimulating discussion, but also for the sake of getting a legitimate read on him.
2> As for Chi, I need people to listen before I push right? However, ACM's recent posts are decent, so I'm looking into other people right now.

Nopoint might do well to notice Post 257, in which I answer his question by attacking Tasky.

Speculating on replacing out is WIFOM.

How so?

Is this your best shot?
Because doing so makes me feel you are trying to generate misleading and invalid content, what scums do.

[redtail896]

Redtail only has a slight suspicion of Tasky.

To be fair, I had Tasky listed as my 2nd most suspicious person in that WoT (after Chihuahua).

As for Tasky being inactive, that could just be frustration with how his/her idea was received.

Also, what do you define as the difference between anti-Town and scummy? Do you think Tasky is anti-Town?

1> The thing is, only if ACM posts more do I get some kinda read on him. Thus, I advocate for the talkative ACM not just for the sake of stimulating discussion, but also for the sake of getting a legitimate read on him.
2> As for Chi, I need people to listen before I push right? However, ACM's recent posts are decent, so I'm looking into other people right now.

I'm all for advocating a talkative ACM. I think ACM should post more as well (*nudges ACM*). I guess my gripe was that that was all you did in your case. You hadn't really commented on content. But you seem to think that, when ACM actually posts, s/he isn't scummy.

[Equinox]

Tasky is V/LA until the end of the month.

[redtail896]

Tasky is V/LA until the end of the month.

Ah, forgot that. Sorry. Please disregard the former comment.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Hi -- So Calif thunderstorms killed my cellular internet card (I live in the mountains and have no landline).

Catching up; I promise content within twelve hours.

[Equinox]

PS: I'll be

V/LA 15.07 - 31.07

Unvote

I'm a bit lost at the moment, so I'll set a vote down once I get my thoughts about this game collected again. Too many replacements at once... @_@